NationStates Jolt Archive

As for reading the Koran, I guess it's a good idea to learn about the religion that seems to be involved in so many conflicts nowadays. Still, the Cardinal seems a bit ignorant on his analysis of global warming. He dismisses all scientific evidence and his argument seems to consist of comparing cuts in carbon emissions to pagan sacrifice of animals.

Anyway, religion's good for one thing. It brings out all the interesting wackos and gives them an excuse to make the world a more interesting place.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200605/s1631670.htm

And I suppose there's no way to fire a cardinal, is there?
Words can't express the emotion I feel there. It's sort of a mix between disapointment and "WHY THE FUCK DIDN'T THEY MAKE SOME WAY TO FIRE A CARDINAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!".

Man, those Muslim environmentalists must be pissed.

Cardinal Pell says the Koran is riddled with so many invocations to violence that after about 50 or 60 or 70 pages, he stopped taking notes of them.Can I also recommend he reads his bible sometime.

I hope he gets excommunicated. Just cos that'd be really funny.

Well, there's stupid people everywhere else, why can't there be stupid people in organised religion?

Well, there's stupid people everywhere else, why can't there be stupid people in organised religion?
Generally the stupid people in organised religion stay at the follower level. Getting one to cardinal is impressive.

Generally the stupid people in organised religion stay at the follower level. Getting one to cardinal is impressive.

Yeah. The Catholic Church is just that good. ;)

As for reading the Koran, I guess it's a good idea to learn about the religion that seems to be involved in so many conflicts nowadays. Still, the Cardinal seems a bit ignorant on his analysis of global warming. He dismisses all scientific evidence and his argument seems to consist of comparing cuts in carbon emissions to pagan sacrifice of animals.

Anyway, religion's good for one thing. It brings out all the interesting wackos and gives them an excuse to make the world a more interesting place.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200605/s1631670.htm


Why does everything have to be construed to anti-religious ends on this forum? I'm pretty sure there are atheists who believe that Islam is a violoent religion and atheists who don't believe in global warming. Maybe I should start a thread about them. Or maybe I should find an article about an atheists who was a murderer and start a topic on it. I'd think I'd write something like, "Anyway, atheism's good for one thing. It brings out interesting wackos and gives them an excuse for murdering people."

Holy cow, people on this forum could find an article about how the pope ate a hamburger with no ketchup on it once and somehow derive from that incident that religion is the source of all evil in this world.

Holy cow, people on this forum could find an article about how the pope ate a hamburger with no ketchup on it once and somehow derive from that incident that religion is the source of all evil in this world.

...and that sounds oddly like something I've read here before. :eek:

Why does everything have to be construed to anti-religious ends on this forum? I'm pretty sure there are atheists who believe that Islam is a violoent religion and atheists who don't believe in global warming. Maybe I should start a thread about them. Or maybe I should find an article about an atheists who was a murderer and start a topic on it. I'd think I'd write something like, "Anyway, atheism's good for one thing. It brings out interesting wackos and gives them an excuse for murdering people."

Holy cow, people on this forum could find an article about how the pope ate a hamburger with no ketchup on it once and somehow derive from that incident that religion is the source of all evil in this world.

Yeah, but, ya know what?

It's a hell of a lot easier to find religious figures doing this kind of thing. Don't know why, but religion is kind of a unifying factor in inflammatory speechs or irrational hatred. I'm not saying atheists don't do anything evil or stupid, but religious people do more than do evil or stupid things, they encourage other people to do the same.

Yeah, but, ya know what?

It's a hell of a lot easier to find religious figures doing this kind of thing. Don't know why, but religion is kind of a unifying factor in inflammatory speechs or irrational hatred. I'm not saying atheists don't do anything evil or stupid, but religious people do more than do evil or stupid things, they encourage other people to do the same.

A thought...

How many of the world's six billion people are stupid?

6,000,000,000

How many of the world's six billion people are religious?

5,000,000,000

How many of the world's six billion people are non-religious?

1,000,000,000


Given these figures and the pervasive nature of human stupidity, it would seem likely that approximately 5 out of 6 stupid people would be religious, while only 1 out of 6 stupid would be non-religious. But they would all be stupid, regardless of belief system.

Those figures are highly inaccurate. I know dozens of people that are stupid enough they count as several stupid people.

Those figures are highly inaccurate. I know dozens of people that are stupid enough they count as several stupid people.

Good point. :D

Given these figures and the pervasive nature of human stupidity, it would seem likely that approximately 5 out of 6 stupid people would be religious, while only 1 out of 6 stupid would be non-religious. But they would all be stupid, regardless of belief system.

True, but I see those who fall under the stupid and religious category as more harmful, since they often try to spread their own stupidity under the guise of religious teachings ot dogma.

True, but I see those who fall under the stupid and religious category as more harmful, since they often try to spread their own stupidity under the guise of religious teachings ot dogma.

You genuinely believe that spreading stupidity under the guise of rationality and empricism is better than doing so under the guise of religious teachings and dogma?

Why does everything have to be construed to anti-religious ends on this forum? I'm pretty sure there are atheists who believe that Islam is a violoent religion and atheists who don't believe in global warming. Maybe I should start a thread about them. Or maybe I should find an article about an atheists who was a murderer and start a topic on it. I'd think I'd write something like, "Anyway, atheism's good for one thing. It brings out interesting wackos and gives them an excuse for murdering people."

Holy cow, people on this forum could find an article about how the pope ate a hamburger with no ketchup on it once and somehow derive from that incident that religion is the source of all evil in this world.
Wasn't the Holy Cow an idol?

Yeah, but, ya know what?

It's a hell of a lot easier to find religious figures doing this kind of thing. Don't know why, but religion is kind of a unifying factor in inflammatory speechs or irrational hatred. I'm not saying atheists don't do anything evil or stupid, but religious people do more than do evil or stupid things, they encourage other people to do the same.

To be fair, atheists make up a very small percentage of the world's population. So it's natural that you don't hear as much about them. In addition to this, you can identify with this guy as religious because he is a Cardinal. Religion is something that people participate in and identify with. On the other hand, say an atheist does something bad, like rape a minor, or murder someone, or gives a hate speech, or so on. People will just say "what a bad man". But nobody will see him and say "atheism made him that way" or "atheism is bad!" The reason is, atheists don't go to "Atheist church" or outwardly show themselves to be atheists. When an atheist does something bad, the chances are, nobody even knew he was an atheist.

And maybe his atheism contributed to the crime he committed and maybe not. Maybe he said to himself "there's no God, so as long as the police don't catch me, there'll be no consequences". Or maybe his bad act had absolutely nothing to do with that. Perhaps he just had some sort of mental illness.

The same can be said of the religious. People see religious people in the news doing bad things and thus their minds are quick to make connections (it's a natural human response). One, that religion caused these people to do bad things and, two, that religion is bad because we've seen religious people do bad things.

The truth is, a person's religion or lack there of is only one aspect of their identity. To attribute every person's actions to one aspect of their life is silly. They are people just like you or I. They (probably) had a family, perhaps went to school. The country and culture they grew up in was also paramount in shaping what they believe and what they do. These are all things that people are forgetting when they say that attribute a person’s actions entirely to his religious or non religious belief system.

Also, keep in mind, that the number of Christians on this planet numbers around two billion people (certainly a rough estimate and many of these are non-practicing). That's just Christians -- of course much more of the world is made up of people of other religions. Most of these people you never hear from -- they live average lives. And of course, the news usually doesn't report the good things that people do, be they theistic or atheistic. There are religious people doing good things all over the place. Heck, if you live in any major metropolitan area in the Western world, you'll more than likely be able to find a religious based charity, soup kitchen, orphanage, house for battered women, etc, working in your area. And I assure you, countless dollars and hours of people's lives have been donated to service of others in the name of religion. Likewise, there are all sorts of secular organizations that do good that is never reported.

Would these people still have been so generous if they were not religious? Who knows. Would this cardinal from Australia still denounce global warming if he were not religious? Again, there is no way to tell.

Of course, we can always ask ourselves what these religions are teaching as a way of determining how they effect how people act. I can't speak for all of them, but I've heard hundreds of Catholic homilies, I've been to countless catechism classes, talks, workshops and on and on and I've never once heard anybody advocate hate, or ignorance, or violence. Instead, it's usually a message about loving others and living a good and moral life. So, as you might imagine, when I see a religious person (particularly Catholic, because that's the religion I am familiar with) in the news who has committed an evil act, I assume that the impulse to do that crime didn't come from his religion, but instead, from some other aspect of his life. So, to be honest, when I come on forums like this, which have a high atheistic population and an extremely low contingent of followers of organized religion, it just blows my mind what conclusions people draw from things like this. And I think religion bashing becomes a bit of a bandwagon. People come on here and see others bashing religion, so that when they themselves stumble upon an article on religion later on, they are more likely to view it in a negative light.

Wasn't the Holy Cow an idol?

Heh, it sounds like one, anyway. After I posted, I realized that my wording might be a little ironic. (is ironic the right word? If not, I'm too lazy to think up a word that actually describes the situation...)

*snip*

At least it had paragraphs...sorta. That's always helpful.

Heh, it sounds like one, anyway. After I posted, I realized that my wording might be a little ironic. (is ironic the right word? If not, I'm too lazy to think up a word that actually describes the situation...)
Apt, certainly ;)
Religious denomination is only one aspect of a persons personality, but in this particular case, he was in a position of religious authority. This gives his words greater weight, and makes him (in my opinion) more of an idiot.

You genuinely believe that spreading stupidity under the guise of rationality and empricism is better than doing so under the guise of religious teachings and dogma?
No, just easier.

Snip
I recognize that a person's religion won't determine whether he or she is stupid. Also, I don't really attach any sort of value to a person's religion when I see that he or she has committed a crime. I won't deny that religion has done a lot of good things in this world and I'm gratified to see you took the time to put out a long, thoughtful answer. I usually don't post like that, I was just trying to see if you had a knee-jerk emotional reaction to opposition or took the time to think it out.

But, public figures, like a cardinal or a senator, occupy a higher role in society than a lot of people. Whenever they do something that is stupid or encourage people to take a view just because they said so, I see them acting irresponsible. This cardinal is doing something I don't like to see, which is to tell those who are depending on him as a leader to take stances on another religion and the enviroment without thinking it through for themselves. I don't take issue with religious figures over this kind of thing in particular, that was just the case for this article.

those who are depending on him as a leader to take stances

Yes, and this personality trait is what separates the Alphas from Epsilons. That's why the majority of the working class in America comes from conservative Christian sects with leaders that tell them how to think and the majority of the elite come from liberal Christian sects that encourage independent thought.

What the world needs in order to fix (or rather, optimize) this situation is someone who isn't idealistic enough to think that most people actually can (or should be able to) think for themselves, yet still open minded enough to transmit the proper messages to the ignorant masses.

But, public figures, like a cardinal or a senator, occupy a higher role in society than a lot of people. Whenever they do something that is stupid or encourage people to take a view just because they said so, I see them acting irresponsible. This cardinal is doing something I don't like to see, which is to tell those who are depending on him as a leader to take stances on another religion and the enviroment without thinking it through for themselves.

Yeah, I agree.

Actually from a Catholic perspecitve, any time one of the clergy abuses his office, it's particularly heinous because we Catholics believe that the priesthood and papacy were divinely established by Jesus.

Yeah, I agree.

Actually from a Catholic perspecitve, any time one of the clergy abuses his office, it's particularly heinous because we Catholics believe that the priesthood and papacy were divinely established by Jesus.
How's that working out?

I'm grateful he left Melbourne and went to Sydney.

You should have reversed it.

A thought...

How many of the world's six billion people are religious?

5,000,000,000

How many of the world's six billion people are non-religious?

1,000,000,000

How many of the world's six billion people are stupid?

6,000,000,000

Given these figures and the pervasive nature of human stupidity, it would seem likely that approximately 5 out of 6 stupid people would be religious, while only 1 out of 6 stupid would be non-religious. But they would all be stupid, regardless of belief system.

So if you are stupid, how do you know you are stupid?

did you guys know i'm jesus?
just to let you know.
this is what i think of global warming.:fluffle:

You should have reversed it.

So if you are stupid, how do you know you are stupid?

Does your definition of stupidity exclude the possibility of pervasive self-awareness?

did you guys know i'm jesus?
just to let you know.
this is what i think of global warming.:fluffle:
Fluffling will only make things warmer.

Fluffling will only make things warmer.

New Studies Show the Largest Source of Warming is...Nation...States?

"He points to the difficulty that scholars and commentators face when analysing the Koran, such as receiving death threats and violence when questioning the divine origin of the holy book."

And christians have on occassion BOMBED ABORTION CLINICS