NationStates Jolt Archive


Iragi citizens cheer as UK soldiers, helicopter burn.

Dobbsworld
06-05-2006, 17:01
http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2006/05/06/iraq-britain.html

Iraqis cheer as British helicopter crashes
Last Updated Sat, 06 May 2006 11:34:21 EDT
CBC News

A British military helicopter crashed into a two-storey house in the southern Iraq city of Basra on Saturday after it was hit by a rocket, police said.

Britain's defence ministry said there were casualties, but could give no further details. Iraqi firefighters told Reuters they had seen four charred bodies inside the wreckage.

There were no casualties on the ground, police said.

A crowd of Iraqis set fire to at least one armoured vehicle that rushed to the scene. Others cheered and threw stones at British forces as they tried to seal off the area.

Police said at least 250 men had gathered and many chanted, "we are all soldiers of al-Sayed," a reference to Shia cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, an ardent opponent of the presence of foreign troops in Iraq.

The helicopter burst into flames after it went down in a residential district in the centre of Basra. Television video footage showed a plume of thick smoke rising into the air from the crash site.

The footage also showed a Warrior tank being hit by home-made gasoline bombs hurled by people in the crowd.

A British soldier and a photographer for Agence France-Presse were wounded in clashes between British and Shia gunmen, a military official said.

About 8,000 British troops are currently based in four southern provinces in Iraq. Britain initially deployed 46,000 troops in the country when coalition forces toppled the government in 2003.

More than 100 British soldiers have been killed in Iraq since then.

Yeah, the Iraqi people just loooooooove having coalition forces in their midsts. You betcha.

What, leave now?

While there's so much potential entertainment value for the average Iraqi?

Perish the thought...
Dobbsworld
06-05-2006, 17:16
*bumps for the people who don't scroll down*
Vetalia
06-05-2006, 17:19
Maybe we should just stop patrolling the country or rebuilding it, park all of our troops around the oil wells/pipelines/terminals, and openly say we're in it for the oil and fuck the Iraqis.

That would be the perfect finish to Bush's IRL trolling of the past five years.
Ultraextreme Sanity
06-05-2006, 17:21
Police said at least 250 men had gathered and many chanted, "we are all soldiers of al-Sayed," a reference to Shia cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, an ardent opponent of the presence of foreign troops in Iraq.


When the segment that is NOT fighting the occupation starts cheering and celibrating ..then you may have made a point .

Iraq — Population: 26,074,906

Coalition forces TOTAL ? Less than 160,000.

There's a valid point for you ..in case you need to find one .
The Nazz
06-05-2006, 17:25
Maybe we should just stop patrolling the country or rebuilding it, park all of our troops around the oil wells/pipelines/terminals, and openly say we're in it for the oil and fuck the Iraqis.

That would be the perfect finish to Bush's IRL trolling of the past five years.
It would also be the most honest thing he's done in five years also (which of course precludes it from ever happening).
Yootopia
06-05-2006, 17:27
What's this?

General public doesn't like invaders, shock horror!
Kulikovo
06-05-2006, 17:29
C'mon, it's the British. They aren't bad people.
ConscribedComradeship
06-05-2006, 17:35
C'mon, it's the British. They aren't bad people.

I suspect that the woman-raping, slave-trading, resource-grabbing, population-oppressing British Empire isn't remembered by the people of Iraq with great fondness.
Dobbsworld
06-05-2006, 17:36
C'mon, it's the British. They aren't bad people.
Methinks the cheering is not on the basis of the specific ethnicity of the soldiers in question... rather more on the basis of their having been agents of unwanted, foreign occupying forces in general.

C'mon.

It's not like they were hanging out the sides of the helicopter re-enacting skits from Monty Python and swilling tea by the potful.
Ultraextreme Sanity
06-05-2006, 17:40
Monty Python In Iraq...I'd watch that . They would be better than two tank divisions ...bring that dead parrot along...I wonder what the average Iraqi would make of the Python guys ??? can you shoot straight while laughing your ass off ?
Potarius
06-05-2006, 17:41
Monty Python In Iraq...I'd watch that . They would be better than two tank divisions ...bring that dead parrot along...I wonder what the average Iraqi would make of the Python guys ??? can you shoot straight while laughing your ass off ?

I guarantee you most Iraqis would find the Monty Python just plain bizarre.
Yootopia
06-05-2006, 17:41
C'mon, it's the British. They aren't bad people.

That's a rather sweeping statement, we've got our fair share of wankers.
Dobbsworld
06-05-2006, 17:42
I think they'd do the 'precision swanning about' skit. What with the uniforms, it's a natural.
Potarius
06-05-2006, 17:43
That's a rather sweeping statement, we've got our fair share of wankers.

Chavs. Thatcherites. I rest my case.
Kinda Sensible people
06-05-2006, 17:47
If there has ever been a sign that the war cannot be won, this would be it.

If only our hands weren't tied.
Dobbsworld
06-05-2006, 17:48
If only our hands weren't tied.
They aren't. You just keep telling yourselves they are, or worse, keep letting yourselves be told they are.
Ultraextreme Sanity
06-05-2006, 17:48
do the "tossers" count ?


Noun: tosser tósu(r)
Terms of abuse for a masturbator

Someone who throws lightly (as with the palm upward)

[Brit, vulgar] Insulting terms of address for people who are stupid or irritating or ridiculous
Derived forms: tossers

Type of: disagreeable person, masturbator, onanist, thrower, unpleasant person

Encyclopedia: Tosser
Kinda Sensible people
06-05-2006, 17:58
They aren't. You just keep telling yourselves they are, or worse, keep letting yourselves be told they are.

I'm sorry, but that is simply incorrect. An Iraq left alone now would become everything we falsely beleived it to be before the invasion.
Zakanistan
06-05-2006, 18:07
The footage also showed a Warrior tank being hit by home-made gasoline bombs hurled by people in the crowd.

I have to think hard before filling up my car w/ gas, and they can just go out filling up bottles, lighting them up and hurling them at armoured vehicles? Bastards. lol
Marrakech II
06-05-2006, 18:36
I suspect that the woman-raping, slave-trading, resource-grabbing, population-oppressing British Empire isn't remembered by the people of Iraq with great fondness.

Damn I thought you were describing UN peacekeepers there for a minute.
However this looks like regular civilians it is not. These are the usual suspects that are planting roadside bombs and taking potshots at coalition forces. These were not your normal Iraqi civilians.
Psychotic Mongooses
06-05-2006, 18:38
Damn I thought you were describing UN peacekeepers there for a minute.
.

:rolleyes:
Skinny87
06-05-2006, 18:39
Damn I thought you were describing UN peacekeepers there for a minute.
However this looks like regular civilians it is not. These are the usual suspects that are planting roadside bombs and taking potshots at coalition forces. These were not your normal Iraqi civilians.

How'd you figure that one out?
Dobbsworld
06-05-2006, 18:47
I'm sorry, but that is simply incorrect. An Iraq left alone now would become everything we falsely beleived it to be before the invasion.
No, an Iraq left alone now would become something other than what you falsely beleived it to be before the invasion. It may not be something you like, but look - first off, you can't force things to not change... and secondly, the longer you stay, the more pronounced will be the inevitable backlash.
Marrakech II
06-05-2006, 18:47
How'd you figure that one out?


Some people need the obvious pointed out for them. :p
Marrakech II
06-05-2006, 18:48
:rolleyes:


Check some reports of UN peacekeepers commiting these crimes. You may be amazed.
Call to power
06-05-2006, 18:50
I don't think the regular Joe Iraqi has any problems with the British or even the coalition this is more of a few odd extremists acting like they speak for the Iraqi people

Unless of course the Americans are showing the patriot to Iraqis as propaganda
Whittier---
06-05-2006, 18:51
I have to think hard before filling up my car w/ gas, and they can just go out filling up bottles, lighting them up and hurling them at armoured vehicles? Bastards. lol
In Iraq gas is free. It's their oil so why not?

I highly suspect the bomb throwers were not representatives of the Iraqi people. They even said they were there on behalf of al Sadr, a fanatical cleric known for issuing death decrees not only against foreigners but against fellow Iraqis who refuse to toe his line of fanaticsm.

It's like when you have protest. Most of the protestors are peaceful, but then some moron or two tosses a molotov cocktail at police with the aim to provoke a reaction against the crowd and make the police look bad and government look bad. The instigators are not representative of the majority of the protestors.

It is the same in this case.
Whittier---
06-05-2006, 18:56
I don't think the regular Joe Iraqi has any problems with the British or even the coalition this is more of a few odd extremists acting like they speak for the Iraqi people

Unless of course the Americans are showing the patriot to Iraqis as propaganda
actually its used as training propaganda for their police. j/k

But in case you didn't notice, that last video of Zarqawi a couple of weeks back, when it showed him holding a machine gun. Well, people over here saw it on the news and immediately recognized the machine gun as a new American made M249. That was brought to my attention a couple of days ago when I was talking to one of the guys we support over here.
The question is, where the heck did he get himself a supposedly new American made M249?

That is the question we are asking over here.
Psychotic Mongooses
06-05-2006, 19:19
Check some reports of UN peacekeepers commiting these crimes. You may be amazed.

Check out some of the reports of US soldiers commiting the same crimes, you'd be amazed.

Oh, no. That would be tarring the entire US military with the same brush... but since its the UN... hey! Why not? Right? :rolleyes:
Blackredwithyellowsuna
06-05-2006, 19:28
Maybe we should just stop patrolling the country or rebuilding it, park all of our troops around the oil wells/pipelines/terminals, and openly say we're in it for the oil and fuck the Iraqis.

That would be the perfect finish to Bush's IRL trolling of the past five years.

That's right! Fuck 'em!
Quagmus
06-05-2006, 19:30
.....
Unless of course the Americans are showing the patriot to Iraqis as propaganda
and the brits showing braveheart....why can't they see that it's different?
Tactical Grace
06-05-2006, 20:08
My family's experience of Nazi-occupied Europe showed that most people were too busy struggling to stay alive and keeping their kids in reasonable health to worry about politics. The Molotov cocktail throwers did not have radically different opinions - they just didn't have any ties to prevent them from taking a stand. The only difference between the partisans and the silent majority was that they had the luxury of spare time and no-one to worry about.
Bogmihia
06-05-2006, 21:21
My family's experience of Nazi-occupied Europe showed that most people were too busy struggling to stay alive and keeping their kids in reasonable health to worry about politics. The Molotov cocktail throwers did not have radically different opinions - they just didn't have any ties to prevent them from taking a stand. The only difference between the partisans and the silent majority was that they had the luxury of spare time and no-one to worry about.
Oppinion polls contradict you. Only a small minority of Iraqis feels strongly against the presence of foreign troops on Iraqi soil. Most of them either want the Americans to maintain some kind of presence or to retreat in 6 months to 2 years, but only after the Iraqi army becomes strong enough to maintain order alone. Believe me, ordinary people hate it as much as the Western soldiers to become the victims of a suicide bombing. And all Iraqis are aware that, if the Americans retreat now, the country will descend into civil war.

Edit: I believe the general attitude in Iraq is "they made this mess, now they must fix it".
Tactical Grace
06-05-2006, 21:29
Opinion polls? When you live in a place like that, you always give the answer you think people expect to hear. Always. It's how you stay safe. You never admit to being discontented. To anyone. Ever.
Francis Street
06-05-2006, 21:32
Police said at least 250 men had gathered and many chanted, "we are all soldiers of al-Sayed," a reference to Shia cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, an ardent opponent of the presence of foreign troops in Iraq.
[/COLOR]

Yeah, the Iraqi people just loooooooove having coalition forces in their midsts. You betcha.

What, leave now?

To say that these men represent the average Iraqi is like saying that the sectarian scumbags throwing molotov cocktails at Orangemen in Dublin two months ago represent the average Irish person.

They weren't passers-by, they were militants.
Francis Street
06-05-2006, 21:38
Damn I thought you were describing UN peacekeepers there for a minute.
UN peacekeepers are not like that, you troll. My country's soldiers are peacekeepers, not rapists. (Unlike US troops in Vietnam.)

But you're one of those ultra-right wing (everything outside the womb must die!) Europe haters, aren't you?
Bogmihia
06-05-2006, 21:40
Well, TG, to paraphrase your previous post, my family's experience of Communist occupied Romania shows me that people want for somebody to come and liberate them. In fact, during the late '40s and early '50s, it was common for the Romanians to hope that "the Americans will come". I'm not saying Iraqis shared the same burning desire to welcome the Americans :), but they certainly must be happy they no longer live under a dictatorship (although yes, of course, they don't like the current instability).
ConscribedComradeship
06-05-2006, 21:40
UN peacekeepers are not like that, you troll. My country's soldiers are peacekeepers, not rapists. (Unlike US troops in Vietnam.)

But you're one of those ultra-right wing (everything outside the womb must die!) Europe haters, aren't you?

We're discussing UK troops, not Irish ones. And who's the troll now?
Quagmus
06-05-2006, 21:44
Opinion polls? When you live in a place like that, you always give the answer you think people expect to hear. Always. It's how you stay safe. You never admit to being discontented. To anyone. Ever.
True.
Bogmihia
06-05-2006, 21:51
Opinion polls? When you live in a place like that, you always give the answer you think people expect to hear. Always. It's how you stay safe. You never admit to being discontented. To anyone. Ever.True.
Then how come the oppinion polls show the greatest opposition to the American presence is in the Sunni region? That's pretty accurate, if you ask me. Don't bother to answer for two reasons: a) it was a retorical question and the answer is implied in the very question; b) it's getting late, I'm going to sleep, so I won't see your answer anyway. :) Goodnight.
Francis Street
06-05-2006, 21:57
We're discussing UK troops, not Irish ones. And who's the troll now?
He slandered UN peacekeepers, many of whom are Irish.
ConscribedComradeship
06-05-2006, 22:00
He slandered UN peacekeepers, many of whom are Irish.

Slander requires that the statement be untrue. Also, there is nothing to suggest that he was referring to Irishmen.
Quagmus
06-05-2006, 22:01
Then how come the oppinion polls show the greatest opposition to the American presence is in the Sunni region? That's pretty accurate, if you ask me. Don't bother to answer for two reasons: a) it was a retorical question and the answer is implied in the very question; b) it's getting late, I'm going to sleep, so I won't see your answer anyway. :) Goodnight.
...because they are most opposed?:confused:
Kryozerkia
06-05-2006, 22:05
Maybe we should just stop patrolling the country or rebuilding it, park all of our troops around the oil wells/pipelines/terminals, and openly say we're in it for the oil and fuck the Iraqis.

That would be the perfect finish to Bush's IRL trolling of the past five years.
And gee, to think, if the US hadn't invaded at all, the country wouldn't need to be rebuilt at all.
Eutrusca
06-05-2006, 22:10
Check out some of the reports of US soldiers commiting the same crimes, you'd be amazed.
Utter bullshit.
Eutrusca
06-05-2006, 22:14
UN peacekeepers are not like that, you troll. My country's soldiers are peacekeepers, not rapists. (Unlike US troops in Vietnam.)
Hmm. I was there for two years continuously, and I never once saw or heard about anything of the sort. You need to get an education, an area where you are quite obviously deficient.

And, btw ... UN peacekeepers are indeed like that (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4521481.stm). :p
Harlesburg
06-05-2006, 22:15
Utter bullshit.
So you wouldn't be amazed?
Francis Street
06-05-2006, 22:17
Slander requires that the statement be untrue. Also, there is nothing to suggest that he was referring to Irishmen.
The statement is generally untrue.
Francis Street
06-05-2006, 22:19
And, btw ... UN peacekeepers are indeed like that (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4521481.stm). :p
Applying that to all UN peacekeepers is like applying the My Lai massacre to all American soldiers. That's what my post was getting at.
Nodinia
06-05-2006, 22:19
Hmm. I was there for two years continuously, and I never once saw or heard about anything of the sort. You need to get an education, an area where you are quite obviously deficient.

And, btw ... UN peacekeepers are indeed like that (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4521481.stm). :p

So you're saying that no troops deployed by the US in South East Asia between 1964 and 1972 committed an act of rape on a member of the local populace?
Dobbsworld
06-05-2006, 23:42
So you're saying that no troops deployed by the US in South East Asia between 1964 and 1972 committed an act of rape on a member of the local populace?
Ooooh watch out Nodinia, or you'll end up reading some fatuous account in Moderation about how you're 'personally flaming or trolling' the unassailable Mr. Horn. Forrest takes any criticism of USian soldiers in Vietnam all horribly personally, apparently.
Bogmihia
07-05-2006, 05:34
...because they are most opposed?:confused:
Well, this shows the polls are correct, something I remember you denied.

And, btw ... UN peacekeepers are indeed like that

53 out of 77 000 is a very low number. I'd dare say the proportion was higher in Vietnam. :p
Neu Leonstein
07-05-2006, 05:38
And, btw ... UN peacekeepers are indeed like that (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4521481.stm). :p
Just about this: This is not the first time these rape-allegations came up against "UN-Peacekeepers".

It's important to note though that the UN doesn't train peacekeepers, nor does it have them under direct command. Member nations (in this case Nepal) pledge troops to serve in a UN mission, which is under a predetermined joint command.

So really when you talk about raping UN Peacekeepers, you should be talking about raping Nepalese Peacekeepers.
SimNewtonia II
07-05-2006, 06:19
Utter bullshit.

Actually I wouldn't be surprised if there were some soldiers responsible for this sort of conduct.

However, I seperate those from the rest who duly do their duty.

The actual troublemakers should, IMHO, have the book thrown at them. HARD.
GreaterPacificNations
07-05-2006, 08:13
American military fatalities in Iraq: 2417
American military wounded in Iraq: 17469
Total American military contribution: 214,000 (approx)
American death rate: 1.1%
American wounded percentage: 8.1%

British military casualities in Iraq: 108
British military wounded in Iraq: 2703
Total British military contribution: 45,000 (approx)
British death rate: 0.2%
British wounded percentage: 6%

Australian military casualities in Iraq: 2
Australian military wounded in Iraq: 8
Total Australian military contribution: 2000 (approx)
Australian death rate: 0.1%
Australian Wounded rate: 0.4%
Quagmus
07-05-2006, 12:41
Well, this shows the polls are correct, something I remember you denied.....
This shows that the polls may be good for measuring distribution of opposition, not the level thereof. I didn't deny correctness of polls; I agreed that there is a good reason to doubt that people will voice discontent, if they perceive that as possibly endangering to themselves or their families. You don't remember very accurately, do you?
Non Aligned States
07-05-2006, 14:32
Utter bullshit.

Huh? US soldiers don't commit rape, theft, murder, etc, etc? Since when did the US armed forces start using robots instead of soldiers?
[NS]Errinundera
07-05-2006, 14:40
Australian military casualities in Iraq: 2


Both at the hands of Australians.
Ravenshrike
07-05-2006, 15:33
actually its used as training propaganda for their police. j/k

But in case you didn't notice, that last video of Zarqawi a couple of weeks back, when it showed him holding a machine gun. Well, people over here saw it on the news and immediately recognized the machine gun as a new American made M249. That was brought to my attention a couple of days ago when I was talking to one of the guys we support over here.
The question is, where the heck did he get himself a supposedly new American made M249?

Wasn't that new, and had probably been lifted off a dead body. Not to mention how stupid he looked when he stovepiped a round and couldn't figure out that he needed to clear the breach. What's really funny is that the NYT and that idiot on CNN started making excuses for why he was so inept.