NationStates Jolt Archive

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060504/ap_on_re_us/arizona_immigration

Ariz. Posse to Arrest Illegal Immigrants

By AMANDA LEE MYERS, Associated Press Writer 11 minutes ago


PHOENIX - A posse of 100 volunteers and sheriff's deputies will patrol the Phoenix area and arrest any illegal immigrants, the county sheriff said.

The group likely will be deployed across parts of Maricopa County by the weekend, Sheriff Joe Arpaio said Wednesday.
Volunteers will be drawn from the department's 3,000-member posse, whose members are trained and are often former deputies.
"It's important to send the message out to stay in Mexico and don't come roaming around here hoping you're going to get amnesty," said Arpaio, who in years past gained notoriety for putting inmates on chain gangs and issuing them striped uniforms and pink underwear.
Arpaio's deputies have already arrested about 120 illegal immigrants using a new state smuggling law.
"We're going to arrest any illegal who violates this new law," he said. "I'm not going to turn these people over to federal authorities so they can have a free ride back to Mexico. I'll give them a free ride into the county jail."
Under the law — as interpreted by the Maricopa County attorney — illegal immigrants can be arrested and prosecuted for conspiracy to smuggle themselves into the country. The law's authors have said they intended it to be used to prosecute smugglers, not the immigrants being smuggled.
Lawyers for nearly 50 undocumented immigrants charged with conspiracy to commit human smuggling have filed motions to have the charges dismissed.
A Los Angeles attorney brought into the case last week by the Mexican Consul General's Office in Phoenix plans to file another motion claiming Maricopa County Attorney officials are violating state and federal law because it's the federal government's job to control illegal immigration.
Both motions are to be argued in county court on May 23.

"Conspiracy to commit human smuggling." Interesting. :rolleyes:

Who cares what the law actually means... it's varmint huntin' time, tex!

More of the macho bullshit that surrounds this big deal over "them is breakin' the law." Yeah, so if it's just the LAW that concerns people like this, why don't I hear about rounding up a posse to hunt ANY OTHER law breakers? Ever?

Because it's NOT about the law. It never has been. It's xenophobic bullshit about defending the nation.

It's an excuse to carry on like a pack of brownshirts, from what I make of it. I expect these vigilantes will be targeting just about anyone whose skin doesn't turn bright red at the first glimmer of sunshine... except for the guys who mow their lawns, and the ladies who clean their houses and raise their children for them, of course...

he was on CNN a day or two ago. i think if he had the power to hang them he would...

I am deeply offended at your charicterization of Arizonans as a hic state. For your information, we were in the Union during the Civil War, which means that we are eccentric. Or something.
Anyway, he most likely said 'It is varmit hunting time.'
We ain't got no fancy pantsed accents down here in th' SouthWest.
And associating us with Texas is just wrong. Arizona is far superior. We have the Grand Canyon and...and...cactus. Bugger all else but cactus in Arizona. Especially Cholla. Never attempt to bugger a cholla. Those things are the devil in plant form.

EDIT:
BTW, the only reason many people support this sort of thing in Arizona is the simple fact that most of them are tired of migrants walking through their yards, the border patrol choppers landing a quarter mile away, the constant patrols and all that.

I fully support what they are doing 1000%.

Our borders are so insecure that it is real easy for terrorists to enter from Mexico. The borders must be secure.

And if the federal government is not going to do it, somebody has to.

I fully support what they are doing 1000%.

Our borders are so insecure that it is real easy for terrorists to enter from Mexico. The borders must be secure.

And if the federal government is not going to do it, somebody has to.
I dunno about your borders, but there's a certain small segment of your population who is totally insecure - and I'm responding to him right now, as it happens.

:eek: How long before the sheriffs in Montana start a round-up of us illegal Canadians?

I fully support what they are doing 1000%.

Our borders are so insecure that it is real easy for terrorists to enter from Mexico. The borders must be secure.

And if the federal government is not going to do it, somebody has to.

There are terrorists coming in from Mexico?

I dunno about your borders, but there's a certain small segment of your population who is totally insecure - and I'm responding to him right now, as it happens.

This is just xenophobic bullshit, as per usual.

:eek: How long before the sheriffs in Montana start a round-up of us illegal Canadians?

canadians are shot on sight...

I agree xenophobic bullshit. Is there any proof that terrorists are coming from mexico? nope. Last time i checked many terrorists came from the middle east and north africa(well washington dc too;) ) But anywho, screw the vigilantes and those that want to recreate the berlin wall in the states.

I live there...
"Sheriff Joe," as he is affectionately known here, is pretty thoroughly deranged. He suggested that juvenile offenders be put in chain gangs on gravedigging duty. Prisoners convicted of minor offenses, who he doesn't want to bother throwing in jail, go to "Tent City." There, they are forced to wear (and I'm not making this up) pink underwear. Also, this being Arizona, and Tent City being outside, it is murderously hot in summer.
He also managed to somehow drive his car through the front of a store. He had been parked, and presumably forgot which gear was reverse. And then didn't notice a problem until he was through the glass.

The man's nuts.

He also managed to somehow drive his car through the front of a store. <snip>

Could catch him on destruction of property there. Wouldn't he be popular in Tent City?;)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060504/ap_on_re_us/arizona_immigration



"Conspiracy to commit human smuggling." Interesting. :rolleyes:

Who cares what the law actually means... it's varmint huntin' time, tex!

More of the macho bullshit that surrounds this big deal over "them is breakin' the law." Yeah, so if it's just the LAW that concerns people like this, why don't I hear about rounding up a posse to hunt ANY OTHER law breakers? Ever?

Because it's NOT about the law. It never has been. It's xenophobic bullshit about defending the nation.
Simple. The evidence of being an illegal immigrant is quite easy to show, there are millions of them ingressing over the course of the year, and the area they have to cover is entirely too large for law enforcement to do alone without a major cash influx. The posse alleviates that and allows them to actually enforce the law. Imagine that.

Osama had been wanting to attack the US for what... 15 years or something? Even he didn't bother sneaking his men in through mexico during that time, they all entered completely legally. If terrorists want to attack, there are easier ways of doing it than going through mexico.

I live there...
"Sheriff Joe," as he is affectionately known here, is pretty thoroughly deranged. He suggested that juvenile offenders be put in chain gangs on gravedigging duty. Prisoners convicted of minor offenses, who he doesn't want to bother throwing in jail, go to "Tent City." There, they are forced to wear (and I'm not making this up) pink underwear. Also, this being Arizona, and Tent City being outside, it is murderously hot in summer.


The man's nuts.

Im waiting to read the part that makes him nuts. Sounds like a guy trying to think out of the box to combat crime and prevent young offenders from wanting to come back to prision again. If embarassing pink underwear and digging holes straightens out a couple thousand 16 year old troublemakers then more power to him.

Oh yeah, I can see the six-guns coming out and illegal immigrants in Mexican hats shooting it out with them. :p

I live there...
"Sheriff Joe," as he is affectionately known here, is pretty thoroughly deranged. He suggested that juvenile offenders be put in chain gangs on gravedigging duty. Prisoners convicted of minor offenses, who he doesn't want to bother throwing in jail, go to "Tent City." There, they are forced to wear (and I'm not making this up) pink underwear. Also, this being Arizona, and Tent City being outside, it is murderously hot in summer.
He also managed to somehow drive his car through the front of a store. He had been parked, and presumably forgot which gear was reverse. And then didn't notice a problem until he was through the glass.

The man's nuts.
I've seen a documentary about him. The man certainly has a few screws loose.

Arpaio should be thrown in Tent City himself. You want to know why Amnesty International rates the US so low for human rights? It's him. He's bringing the entire country's score down.

I've seen a documentary about him. The man certainly has a few screws loose.

He is a little odd, but he knows how to work publicity to his advantage. He knows his constituancy, and plays to them at every opprotunity.

Most of the occupants of Tent City are awaiting trial. They have not been convicted of anything. The pink undies, chain gangs, and green bologna sandwiches are for Joe's public image. They have little real effect on any of the inmates.

Sheriff Joe has his posse out because the majority of Arizonans feel over run by illegals crossing the border by the thousands daily. Hospital emergency rooms are overcrowded, uninsured motorists are driving the streets, and wages for low and unskilled jobs are driven down by people working for less than minimum wage. All of this costs the taxpayers of the state, and to little benefit. Arpaio knows this, so he puts the posse in the desert.

He'll nab a few, and toss them in the jail. That will cause Mexico to ask the US for their release. Joe will get more national headlines, and look good for the voters. He'll get re-elected, and be happy.

The best thing that we could hope for here is that the US and Mexico look at this as a serious problem, and do something to stem the flow of illegals. But as long as millions of people are sending cash into his country, Fox won't do anything about it.

Many Mexican nationals and Hispanics feel that AZ and CA are theirs anyway, and if all the Anglos go away they'd be fine with that. They don't make any secret of their feelings in this regard. They feel that immigrants are the backbone of the local economy, and everyone should be happy they're here.

The two sides are so far apart that it is difficult to see any chance of reconciliation.

If we're real lucky, we'll find a solution before the shooting starts.

he was on CNN a day or two ago. i think if he had the power to hang them he would...
Come on now, it's Sherrif Joe Arpayo we're talking about. Considering the fact that condidions in his jail have caused pregnant women who weren't even convicted of a crime yet to miscarry and that people still awaiting trial have died in custody in his jail, he wouldn't bother with hanging them. They'll die cheaper in custody. The taxpayer won't have to pay for rope.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060504/ap_on_re_us/arizona_immigration



"Conspiracy to commit human smuggling." Interesting. :rolleyes:

Who cares what the law actually means... it's varmint huntin' time, tex!

More of the macho bullshit that surrounds this big deal over "them is breakin' the law." Yeah, so if it's just the LAW that concerns people like this, why don't I hear about rounding up a posse to hunt ANY OTHER law breakers? Ever?

Because it's NOT about the law. It never has been. It's xenophobic bullshit about defending the nation.
I've said it before, I'll say it again in this thread. The only one bringing up race is you. You have no other argument to use so you have to demonize those who don't agree with you, call them names.
Ever heard of prostitution stings?
Ever heard of speeding crackdowns?
Ever heard of traffic inforcement operations?
Your argument about you not hearing about other "posse's" simply means you aren't listening.

This is just xenophobic bullshit, as per usual.
Come up with a real argument. This weak, schoolyard name calling is becoming tiring.

Osama had been wanting to attack the US for what... 15 years or something? Even he didn't bother sneaking his men in through mexico during that time, they all entered completely legally. If terrorists want to attack, there are easier ways of doing it than going through mexico.
Yeah, like that al quaeda guy who snuck across from Canada for the millenium plot.

I agree xenophobic bullshit. Is there any proof that terrorists are coming from mexico? nope. Last time i checked many terrorists came from the middle east and north africa(well washington dc too;) ) But anywho, screw the vigilantes and those that want to recreate the berlin wall in the states.
Not too up on history huh? To compare the border fence idea to the berlin wall is like comparing the Minuteman Project to Hitler's SS... oh wait, you've probably already done that comparison. :rolleyes:

Arpaio should be thrown in Tent City himself. You want to know why Amnesty International rates the US so low for human rights? It's him. He's bringing the entire country's score down.
Are you being serious? Or are you just arguing to the illogical extreme? Either way... no.

Are you being serious? Or are you just arguing to the illogical extreme? Either way... no.

Clearly I was arguing to the illogical extreme. Arpaio isn't actually single-handedly dragging down our human rights record. But what he does at his county jail is despicable.

Clearly I was arguing to the illogical extreme. Arpaio isn't actually single-handedly dragging down our human rights record. But what he does at his county jail is despicable.
What about the tent city is descpicable? What about wearing pink jumpsuits is dispicable? Those things make a lot of sense to an aweful lot of people. And he is achieving results.

What part of any of it is despicable?

What about the tent city is descpicable? What about wearing pink jumpsuits is dispicable? Those things make a lot of sense to an aweful lot of people. And he is achieving results.

What part of any of it is despicable?
The part about people still awaiting trial being subjected to living in tents in the hot desert sun, fed garbage, and the fact that some of those innocent* people have had miscarriages or died due to conditions in his jail is pretty despicable.

*innocent until proven guilty, right?

What about the tent city is descpicable? What about wearing pink jumpsuits is dispicable? Those things make a lot of sense to an aweful lot of people. And he is achieving results.

What part of any of it is despicable?

The part where it's a county jail, not a federal or state prison.

http://www.historycooperative.org/journals/jah/92.3/images/parsons_fig04b.jpg

The part about people still awaiting trial being subjected to living in tents in the hot desert sun, fed garbage, and the fact that some of those innocent* people have had miscarriages or died due to conditions in his jail is pretty despicable.

*innocent until proven guilty, right?
I'm sorry, but you're going to have to post a source on that stuff. Until then, I have to call bullshit.

Since the beginning of 2000, at least four inmates have died in the USA after being subdued in a restraint chair -- a metal framed chair in which prisoners are immobilized in four-point restraints securing both arms and legs, with a strap across the chest. Three prisoners died within the space of three months. These cases are the latest in a disturbing line of restraint chair related deaths that have occurred in US prisons and jails nationwide.(1) There are also numerous reports of prisoners being subjected to verbal, physical or mental abuse while in restraint chairs.

http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/engamr510312002

Consider for a moment that County Jails don't really house violent criminals. People in county jails are often there for failure to pay fines, motor vehicle issues, petty theft, and minor drug offenses. Also many people in county jails are there AWAITING TRIAL. They're still considered innocent by the law. Why should county jail become a death sentence?

Because it's NOT about the law. It never has been. It's xenophobic bullshit about defending the nation.


Good deal, I like law enforcement officers who enforce the law. Now, if the Feds would get off their asses and enforce the law we might be able to do something about illegal immigration (all illegal immigration) in this country. I find it very amusing and sad that people will call those who want to enforce the law xenophobic.

The part where it's a county jail, not a federal or state prison.
So, the existance of a county jail is dispicable? Now that just doesn't make any sense.

Or is it the fact that he opperates it effectively?

So, the existance of a county jail is dispicable? Now that just doesn't make any sense.

Or is it the fact that he opperates it effectively?

No. Stop being dense. It's the fact that he operates his county jail, which houses people with such violent criminal records such as motor vehicle violations and larceny, like it's a maximum security federal prison in China.

http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/engamr510312002

Consider for a moment that County Jails don't really house violent criminals. People in county jails are often there for failure to pay fines, motor vehicle issues, petty theft, and minor drug offenses. Also many people in county jails are there AWAITING TRIAL. They're still considered innocent by the law. Why should county jail become a death sentence?
4 inmates have died in 5+ years? Out of how many millions in the custody of county jails? Come on, statistically that many people could have died from colorectal cancer while in custody :rolleyes:

And way to really exagerate things by calling it a death sentance. Talk about illogical extreme.

No. Stop being dense. It's the fact that he operates his county jail, which houses such violent criminals as motor vehicle violations and larceny, like it's a maximum security federal prison in China.
Sorry, that comparison is bs and you know it.

He isn't torturing anyone there. You know, real torture not the bs that AI screams about. He isn't killing anyone there. He is attracting attention there, and getting results.

How should he be treating them?

Not too up on history huh? To compare the border fence idea to the berlin wall is like comparing the Minuteman Project to Hitler's SS... oh wait, you've probably already done that comparison. :rolleyes:


Last time i checked they are putting a wall up...and more than likely there will be a shoot on site order. not to mention i heard someone say something about minefields at the more popular crossing sites...yeah..nothing like the berlin wall there:rolleyes:

Sorry, that comparison is bs and you know it.

He isn't torturing anyone there. You know, real torture not the bs that AI screams about. He isn't killing anyone there. He is attracting attention there, and getting results.

How should he be treating them?

Like people who are there for misdemeanors or who are awaiting trial. Not like prisoners of war.

I live there...
"Sheriff Joe," as he is affectionately known here, is pretty thoroughly deranged. He suggested that juvenile offenders be put in chain gangs on gravedigging duty. Prisoners convicted of minor offenses, who he doesn't want to bother throwing in jail, go to "Tent City." There, they are forced to wear (and I'm not making this up) pink underwear. Also, this being Arizona, and Tent City being outside, it is murderously hot in summer.
He also managed to somehow drive his car through the front of a store. He had been parked, and presumably forgot which gear was reverse. And then didn't notice a problem until he was through the glass.

The man's nuts.

Arpaio needs to be chained up in the basement and fed with a slingshot.

Like people who are there for misdemeanors or who are awaiting trial. Not like prisoners of war.
People awaiting trial are not kept in the general population with the rest of the inmates. You are just being facetious now.

Last time i checked they are putting a wall up...and more than likely there will be a shoot on site order. not to mention i heard someone say something about minefields at the more popular crossing sites...yeah..nothing like the berlin wall there:rolleyes:

Why don't you save the BS and fairy tales for another thread called BS and fairy tales? :mad: The only wall going up is being built by the Minutemen on private property with the consent of the property owners. Shoot to kill orders and minefields are BS and fairy tales. Oh, and the Berlin wall was created to keep people IN not OUT.

Last time i checked they are putting a wall up...and more than likely there will be a shoot on site order. not to mention i heard someone say something about minefields at the more popular crossing sites...yeah..nothing like the berlin wall there:rolleyes:
This just shows you have no idea what the berlin wall was.
That and you believe whatever the raving demogogues say to you. Mine fields :rolleyes:

Be serious.

And associating us with Texas is just wrong. Arizona is far superior.

I must agree with that... after visiting both states, Arizona pwns Texas on every level. The scenery is more beautiful, the climate is much more comfortable (at least Arizona's a dry heat >.>). Plus I never got this whole "conform to the majority or die" vibe from Arizona like I did from Texas.

As for the whole immigration issue, I only have a problem with the ones that hide from the system while trying to benifit from it and change it to fit them and screw everyone else. I'm 100% cool with people who come to this country with the intentiont of making a position contribution.

Arpaio should be thrown in Tent City himself. You want to know why Amnesty International rates the US so low for human rights? It's him. He's bringing the entire country's score down.

I don't know the specifics about why Amnesty ranks the US low in human rights, but I believe it goes far beyond Arpaio. "Testilying" is very common among the police, and almost 1% of the U.S. population is in jail, over half of them for "crimes" which had no victims (except perhaps themselves or other willing participants).

Consider this scene from the drug war:

http://namaste_rich.gnn.tv/headlines/1063/Tape_Reveals_Terrifying_Campaign_In_War_On_Drugs

Also bear in mind that the victims - Eugene Siler and his wife - are now in jail. The first time, they had taped evidence to show that the police officers were lying. Is there any reason to believe that the second group of cops are telling the truth? Or is this simply revenge? Does it even matter, when the whole basis for the Drug War is wrong?

All this does not even begin to touch on the issue of socially approved torture in the U.S. re-education camps, better known as "Treatment Facilities", after the fashion that the Soviet Union used to insist that all dissidents were insane and needed to be "treated". I doubt Amnesty International even considers that, because they are in collusion with the authorities when it comes to such issues.



Baldur

Oh, and the Berlin wall was created to keep people IN not OUT.

Open your eyes and look at the trends. It won't be long after they build this wall, that they start using it to keep people IN.

I advise anyone who wants to live in a free country to get out of the U.S. or Europe as soon as they can.

Unfortunately, your efforts will be hampered by the fact that there are no free countries anywhere, only some that are more free than others - and Uncle Sam has a long reach.



Baldur

4 inmates have died in 5+ years? Out of how many millions in the custody of county jails? Come on, statistically that many people could have died from colorectal cancer while in custody :rolleyes:

And way to really exagerate things by calling it a death sentance. Talk about illogical extreme.
That's 4 deaths attributed directly to abuse and the use of a "restraint chair". It doesn't inculde any deaths due to natural causes. Read it as 4 murders by corrections officers rather than 4 simple deahts.

The US border patrol just needs to get its act together and put a defense area down there similar to the Atlantic wall built by the Germans during WW2. :cool: They also need to stop locals from going down there and trying to police for them.

And after that, the US gov. can sit back and discuss immigration. You guys need immigration, but formal, legal immigration.

Open your eyes and look at the trends. It won't be long after they build this wall, that they start using it to keep people IN.

I advise anyone who wants to live in a free country to get out of the U.S. or Europe as soon as they can.

:rolleyes: Please save me from the BS. It's getting deep and I don't have any boots.

People awaiting trial are not kept in the general population with the rest of the inmates. You are just being facetious now.

Of course they are. Tent City has no segregated areas. People convicted of crimes are kept with people awaiting trial. There is no way to keep them apart in a facility like the Tent City.

Just ask yourself this: If you had been arrested for a crime that you did not commit, were held over for trial pending bail you could not pay, would you feel that justice was being served by keeping you outdoors in 110 degree weather along side convicted criminals?

Of course they are. Tent City has no segregated areas. People convicted of crimes are kept with people awaiting trial. There is no way to keep them apart in a facility like the Tent City.

Just ask yourself this: If you had been arrested for a crime that you did not commit, were held over for trial pending bail you could not pay, would you feel that justice was being served by keeping you outdoors in 110 degree weather along side convicted criminals?
Sorry, you are going to have to post a source for that also, until then I call bs.
He isn't killing people down there. He isn't torturing people down there. Don't believe all the crap that demogogues are feeding you.