NationStates Jolt Archive

alright, i have a problem and i'm wondering if any of you lovely smart people here on NS can help (sucking up just a little, no? ;) :D)

this time last year, my old desktop's HD died and i lost a lot of stuff... pictures, work, documents, but mostly my music collection.
at the time i had a 30Gb Creative Zen mp3 player with most (sadly not all) of my collection on there. after the HD died, i've been wanting to get my music back off it but have found it so time consuming (thanks to the stupid software) that i couldn't be bothered.

now, about 2 weeks ago, the mp3 player itself died. it seemed to be a software problem as it started up fine, you could hear the HD whirring away, but it froze on the logo screen. this prompted me to do something about this problem again.

so i have now taken the player apart and removed the 2.5" HD in there, and stuck it in a IDE --> USB2 HD enclosure. this has all gone well and the device powers up, again you can hear (and feel) the HD inside whirring away, and when plugging it into my laptop (and other computers) windows recognises that a mass storage device is attached, etc etc, and seemingly works fine.

however, no icon appears in my computer.
and when i go to disk management or device properties in device manager (it does recognise a 30gb HD is attached) there is no drive volume listed.

it seems as if the HD is not windows-formatted or is unformatted or something.

i'm hoping someone here might have some insight into the matter.

i have the options of creating a partition on the drive, and formatting it. however i want to get the data held on there, off.... and formatting it would kinda mess that up. so, what can i do? is there a way of safe/soft-formatting this device, like there used to be (IIRC)? would creating a partition do any good at all, and would this overwrite the data on there?

in short, what can i do to get this data off?

i'd be most appreciative of any help or suggestions :fluffle:

Can't help you, the EEPROM on my craptop died. I'm busy with that right now.

i'd be most appreciative of any help or suggestions :fluffle:

I would suggest trying to see if Knoppix can recognise the drive.

I would suggest trying to see if Knoppix can recognise the drive.
oh that sounds quite good... perhaps the HD from the mp3 player is configured to work with Linux (the Creative OS might be linux based), yes?

though to be clear the drive is recognised, but it appears unformatted.

might try this later if i have the guts (messing about with alternative OS's still seems scary to me)
though is it available in english (the website is all in german :confused: )
where can i download it?

edit: that said, my graphics card on this thing counts as "exotic" (its a dell-only exclusive from nvidia) so... might make it more difficult...

edit2: just downloading the fucker is proving to be a headache. bugger it

oh that sounds quite good... perhaps the HD from the mp3 player is configured to work with Linux (the Creative OS might be linux based), yes?

though to be clear the drive is recognised, but it appears unformatted.

might try this later if i have the guts (messing about with alternative OS's still seems scary to me)
though is it available in english (the website is all in german :confused: )
where can i download it?

edit: that said, my graphics card on this thing counts as "exotic" (its a dell-only exclusive from nvidia) so... might make it more difficult...

edit2: just downloading the fucker is proving to be a headache. bugger itAbout the seeing of the HD. Yeah, as far as I know it would do exactly that. If the HD is formated for use by another OS then Windows won't 'see' anything on the HD, and so consider it in need of formating before it can add anything on to the HD.

How about buying the cheapest crappiest creative mp3 player you can find, ripping out the HD and replacing it with yours? You could use the player interface to connect to the computer and transfer all the music onto your laptop. Just an idea. I have no idea if it would work. Sounds like the OS on the mp3 player died rather than anything else.

Sorry for the useless post. It's just that I like the look of my own posts. >_>

oh that sounds quite good... perhaps the HD from the mp3 player is configured to work with Linux (the Creative OS might be linux based), yes?

though to be clear the drive is recognised, but it appears unformatted.

might try this later if i have the guts (messing about with alternative OS's still seems scary to me)
though is it available in english (the website is all in german :confused: )
where can i download it?

edit: that said, my graphics card on this thing counts as "exotic" (its a dell-only exclusive from nvidia) so... might make it more difficult...

edit2: just downloading the fucker is proving to be a headache. bugger it

How can I help? I'm pretty sure I could get what you need if you provide the link. (I hope!!!)

oh that sounds quite good... perhaps the HD from the mp3 player is configured to work with Linux (the Creative OS might be linux based), yes?

That is what I'm thinking: that it may be a format which Linux would recognise, but Windows wouldn't


might try this later if i have the guts (messing about with alternative OS's still seems scary to me)

Knoppix runs almost entirely off CD, and so shouldn't affect your machine - apart from at the point when you may be able to copy the files off the MP3 player drive, but that bit is fairly safe.

though is it available in english (the website is all in german :confused: )

Click on the USA/UK flag and you'll get the english version of the page.

edit2: just downloading the fucker is proving to be a headache. bugger it

In what way?

I can't do much to help you from windows, both because I don't know windows well and because windows itslef is very limited.

Could you try booting a GNU/Linux livecd (like Ubuntu, Knoppix, ...), go to a terminal, and copy/paste me the result of "dmesg | grep [sh]d", and if possible a "fdisk -l /dev/xxx" where xxx is the name of the discs from the previous command (/dev/hda, /dev/sda, /dev/hdn, ...) ? I know it's not really easy, but I only know how to recover stuff from a Unix system.

Oh hum, you need a root terminal for that, but there is a "root terminal" or "administrator terminal" or something smiliar in the menus of the live cds.

I'm illiterate when it comes to these things, so you'll probably mock me for eternity for stating the obvious, but have you tried reading the HD in MediaSource or some PC application that you'd use to transfer mp3 files to/from your player? At least it should recognise how the HD is formatted.

In what way?
in that for all the HTTP mirrors i tried off the wiki page, you have to download all the files individually - no nice big zip file or whatever to d/l

though thanks for the reassurance - think i will give it a go :) (and another look)
(edit: ah i was looking on the wrong site...)

How can I help? I'm pretty sure I could get what you need if you provide the link. (I hope!!!)
hehe thanks for the offer! :D :fluffle:

About the seeing of the HD. Yeah, as far as I know it would do exactly that. If the HD is formated for use by another OS then Windows won't 'see' anything on the HD, and so consider it in need of formating before it can add anything on to the HD.

How about buying the cheapest crappiest creative mp3 player you can find, ripping out the HD and replacing it with yours? You could use the player interface to connect to the computer and transfer all the music onto your laptop. Just an idea. I have no idea if it would work. Sounds like the OS on the mp3 player died rather than anything else.

Sorry for the useless post. It's just that I like the look of my own posts. >_>
ah see the reason why i didn't get the files off the player in the first place was because the Creative software makes it easy to put files on the player, but very difficult to get them off. its pretty much a file-by-file process, and with almost 20 gigs of wma's on there, its really too much hastle to bother (i mean, i've lived without all this music for the last year... it'd just be really nice to have it back...)

so with that i'd be back to square one (and out of pocket...)
cheers for the suggestion anyhow :P :fluffle:

oh that sounds quite good... perhaps the HD from the mp3 player is configured to work with Linux (the Creative OS might be linux based), yes?

If you think it may be an ext2 filesystem (native Linux filesystem), you can try to download explore2fs, it's a windows program allowing to copy files from a ext2 filesystem: http://uranus.it.swin.edu.au/~jn/linux/explore2fs.htm

though to be clear the drive is recognised, but it appears unformatted.

Which is how it'll appear on windows if not formatted in NTFS or FAT, windows is too stupid to understand that other filesystems can exist ;)

might try this later if i have the guts (messing about with alternative OS's still seems scary to me)
though is it available in english (the website is all in german :confused: )
where can i download it?

GNU/Linux is multilingual (expect the kernel itself which is english only), so no need to worry ;) There is an english flag on knoppix.org homepage. Else, you can try ubuntu, they'll even send you free cds if you don't have a burner (a south africa billionar is paying the cds, no worry ;) ). Ubuntu is on
http://www.ubuntu.com/ (be careful, there is a "live cd" and an "install cd", you want the "live cd" unless you want to install it on your hard drive)

edit: that said, my graphics card on this thing counts as "exotic" (its a dell-only exclusive from nvidia) so... might make it more difficult...

It'll fallback on VESA, at worse. Will be "slow" (no 3d accel or movie accel or anything), but more than enough to recover dara.

in that for all the HTTP mirrors i tried off the wiki page, you have to download all the files individually - no nice big zip file or whatever to d/l
though thanks for the reassurance - think i will give it a go :) (and another look)
hehe thanks for the offer! :D :fluffle:
ah see the reason why i didn't get the files off the player in the first place was because the Creative software makes it easy to put files on the player, but very difficult to get them off. its pretty much a file-by-file process, and with almost 20 gigs of wma's on there, its really too much hastle to bother (i mean, i've lived without all this music for the last year... it'd just be really nice to have it back...)
so with that i'd be back to square one (and out of pocket...)
cheers for the suggestion anyhow :P :fluffle:
Yes, I just realized that as well when I saw that my university also has a link (and then I'd have to download single files... bah!)
Anyway, it's always a problem with Windows XP (which I just assume you have?) and its NTSC HDs and other HDs formatted differently.

Have you tried punching some keywords into google on that matter?
If it happened to you, it's very unlikely that you're the only one with a likewise problem ;)

As for the offer - sure thing! :p

If you think it may be an ext2 filesystem (native Linux filesystem), you can try to download explore2fs, it's a windows program allowing to copy files from a ext2 filesystem: http://uranus.it.swin.edu.au/~jn/linux/explore2fs.htm

hmm that looks like the business but when i run it all i get is... nothing. the program doesn't list my internal HD either. i don't know whether it should, but either way its not displaying this other HD.

in desperation, here's (http://www.hlj.me.uk/screenshot%201%20jpg.jpg)a screenshot of my disk managment window... not sure why but there you go :P


looks like i'll go back to downloading that OS

hmm that looks like the business but when i run it all i get is... nothing. the program doesn't list my internal HD either. i don't know whether it should, but either way its not displaying this other HD.

No, it should only list ext2fs partitions, not ntfs or fat ones. So well, it's probably not a ext2, maybe another Linux filesystem, or something else...

in desperation, here's (http://www.hlj.me.uk/screenshot%201%20jpg.jpg)a screenshot of my disk managment window... not sure why but there you go :P

Nothing usable there :/

Hum, else, maybe you could *hum* find *hum* a partition magic ? I hate advocating non-free sw, but it may help you, and it's probably easier than knoppix/ubuntu. But knoppix/ubuntu is much better ;)


looks like i'll go back to downloading that OS

Good luck ;)

No, it should only list ext2fs partitions, not ntfs or fat ones. So well, it's probably not a ext2, maybe another Linux filesystem, or something else...

either that or its the HD itself that's failed :(


Nothing usable there :/

Hum, else, maybe you could *hum* find *hum* a partition magic ? I hate advocating non-free sw, but it may help you, and it's probably easier than knoppix/ubuntu. But knoppix/ubuntu is much better ;)

(i didn't think there would be but meh... its all i've got to go on myself :P)

ok, back to one of my original questions then... partitioning the drive won't overwrite any of the data will it?


thanks for your help btw :)

Good luck ;)
heh thanks. it'll only be another 18 hours with bittorrent... (i hate BT)

either that or its the HD itself that's failed :(

If it fails, Linux will tell you ;) (something like: "hdb: UncorrectableError" on the console/dmesg, it happened to me a few times)

ok, back to one of my original questions then... partitioning the drive won't overwrite any of the data will it?

It will. Well, more exactly, it'll make the old data unreadable - recoverable if you know how to do it, but unreadble.

But partition magic (or GNU/Linux fdisk program) can give you informations on how it is partionned right now, and that's what I'm looking for.

thanks for your help btw :)

You're welcome ;)

heh thanks. it'll only be another 18 hours with bittorrent... (i hate BT)

There is probably a http/ftp image somewhere, if you want.

snip

ok here is what you do.

up plug your electronic device, make sur that it is turned off.

open a window.

pick up the electronic device and carry to window>

drop.

Invent a religion and a god that repairs electronic devices and start praying.

ok, here's an update. knoppix went fine (realised i was overlooking the iso files available, so download was a lot easier than i first thought... heh), and i tried it this morning with the usb HD...

that didn't work :(

here's the error it said when trying to access the drive: http://www.hlj.me.uk/pics/knoppix%20hd%20error%20pic.JPG


so... kinda back to square one. it seems like the drive is indeed fucked. suggestions? (mr. kilobug?)
looking into buying partition magic. if that doesn't work then i'll just format the bugger and use it as a handy new external drive :P



edit: partitionmagic, on the website says:

Supports USB 2.0, USB 1.1, and FireWire® external drives.**
**For these devices, operation on partitions with no open files.

...

Converts partitions among FAT, FAT32, and NTFS without losing data.

sounds like it can't create a new partition on a non-windows formatted drive without overwriting the data... especially on a usb external drive :(
right?

ok, here's an update. knoppix went fine (realised i was overlooking the iso files available, so download was a lot easier than i first thought... heh), and i tried it this morning with the usb HD...

that didn't work :(

here's the error it said when trying to access the drive: http://www.hlj.me.uk/pics/knoppix%20hd%20error%20pic.JPG


so... kinda back to square one. it seems like the drive is indeed fucked. suggestions? (mr. kilobug?)
looking into buying partition magic. if that doesn't work then i'll just format the bugger and use it as a handy new external drive :P



edit: partitionmagic, on the website says:



sounds like it can't create a new partition on a non-windows formatted drive without overwriting the data... especially on a usb external drive :(
right?
This is quite the noodle scratcher. I think the file system has become corrupted. Looks like you have to bittorenet your collection back.

This is quite the noodle scratcher. I think the file system has become corrupted. Looks like you have to bittorenet your collection back.
thats what i was thinking... bah.
though i do have to be clear my old collection was 90% from CDs i bought (which a friend now holds for me), heh. problem is i can't quite remember what i had and what i didn't. will probably just stick with what i've got but use this new sweet little HD as a music backup *nods*

ok, here's an update. knoppix went fine (realised i was overlooking the iso files available, so download was a lot easier than i first thought... heh), and i tried it this morning with the usb HD...

that didn't work :(

here's the error it said when trying to access the drive: http://www.hlj.me.uk/pics/knoppix%20hd%20error%20pic.JPG

Hum, yeah, filesystem autodetection failed :/ Sounds like corrupted... There may be ways to recover it, but it's hard to do it through forums :/

so... kinda back to square one. it seems like the drive is indeed fucked. suggestions? (mr. kilobug?)

Could try the "fdisk -l" trick on a terminal or are you too scared for that ? USB drive will probably be "/dev/sda" (USB drivers are emulated as SCSI by the kernel, so sda), so would be "fdisk -l /dev/sda" on a root (administrator) terminal of the knoppix.


looking into buying partition magic. if that doesn't work then i'll just format the bugger and use it as a handy new external drive :P


edit: partitionmagic, on the website says:



sounds like it can't create a new partition on a non-windows formatted drive without overwriting the data... especially on a usb external drive :(
right?

Hum, seems it can try to. Partition magic usually works fine and may be able to recover your data, but it's not 100% safe either - and if it fails, it may be harder to recover it afterwards.

ah i've given up. its not that essential (or at all) that i get this music back, so i've formatted it (to NTFS... hehe cheeky ;)) and am copying my current music collection to it so this never happens again :)

thank you all, very much, for all your help and suggestions, people :)
especially you, comrade kilobuggy! :P :fluffle: :fluffle:


i can now count myslef as one notch geekier, at least, now that i've booted up and used linux on my machine :p (and i have a 'free', very portable, small 30gb external drive!... will add it to the over 1 terabyte of external storage i've got in this room already :D)

If you still have the old HD there are many shareware data recovery tools online.

If you still have the old HD there are many shareware data recovery tools online.
too late :p

*shrugs*

Hmm, when those laptop hard drives die .. they really die.
You HD is mechanically stuffed so get anything you have on it as soon as possible.

Next time copy the entire thing into your new PC as a backup.

try a program named d"isk restorer" or something to that effect you maybe able to get some data off it then you would have to re format it