NationStates Jolt Archive

This isnt really debatable, just sort of shocking.

I think everyone will find this interesting and disturbing at the same time.

Comments are obviously welcomed.



Hitler's Jewish Soldiers
The Untold Story of Nazi Racial Laws and Men of Jewish Descent in the German Military


Pictures of Jews in the Nazi military. (http://www.kansaspress.ku.edu/righitpix.html)

It just shows how stupid prejudice and racism really is.

Depends...Do they follow Judaism?

Depends...Do they follow Judaism?

No idea..I just want to know if you'd consider them Jews.

From the pictures they dont look like racial Jews. The Nazis used measurements of the head and mainly the nose to determine if you were infact jewish.

It just shows how stupid prejudice and racism really is.

Did you read all the captions?

About the poster Aryan Jew...and about how he decorated the high ranking military Jews as Aryan?

What a load of bullshit, huh.:rolleyes:

From the pictures they dont look like racial Jews. The Nazis used measurements of the head and mainly the nose to determine if you were infact jewish.

You cant look like a racial Jew because there is no racial Jew.

I am Jewish...but I would say I look more like those guys than a Rabbi.

Im not saying that it is correct to do measurements of the nose etc. , but thats what they did.

and i would argue that it would be much more accurate back then because many people didnt date outside their own race and religion not* nearly as much as they do nowadays

Did you read all the captions?

About the poster Aryan Jew...and about how he decorated the high ranking military Jews as Aryan?

What a load of bullshit, huh.:rolleyes:

It's ironic. And sad. It showed that Hitler had the capacity to measure potential based on the individual, but he let his hatred of the Jews cloud his judgement.

and i would argue that it would be much more accurate back then because many people didnt date outside their own race and religion not* nearly as much as they do nowadays

But there is a word that sounds a bit like date but isn't nearly as nice and happens a lot outside of "race" and religious groups.

yeah there's a lot of absurdities associated with his shit... i love how he said aryan athletes were superior and then jesse owens came to the olympics and beat their fat asses

But there is a word that sounds a bit like date but isn't nearly as nice and happens a lot outside of "race" and religious groups.

Is that word "hate"?

i honestly think that the issue cant be judged by todays standard. Bashing Nazis is fine and all but they were well supported in their time period among many people in germany and many other nations before WW2 envyed them

The british labor party is called the New Labor Party cause the original one was openly envious and on some issues wanting to move in the political direction of hitler

It's ironic. And sad. It showed that Hitler had the capacity to measure potential based on the individual, but he let his hatred of the Jews cloud his judgement.

Except when it benefited the Nazi War Machine. :rolleyes:


Then they simply were decorated Aryans. :p

Except when it benefited the Nazi War Machine. :rolleyes:


Then they simply were decorated Aryans. :p

But it went against his entire way of thinking. I think it was because they somewhat proved to him that not all Jews were what he described them as.

It's ironic. And sad. It showed that Hitler had the capacity to measure potential based on the individual, but he let his hatred of the Jews cloud his judgement.
The worst mistake in history: "No, no! I said burn the shoes!"

"We all have our Jew."
Himmler said that I beleive, but it could've been Gouring.

i try not to question history on anything cause its just to complex. I just accept the way the world according to god's has the plan and i think that nazism was an important step in history. maybe the commies would have taken over the world without them

Note that im not saying that nazism was religiously defended and i feel that God intended Humanity to end their evil reich, but i try not*** to say that any change in history would*** prove to be any better cause the one as is is the plan of God.

Any opinions on that???

a leapord cant loose its spots. weather you admit your cheap or not, if your buying topps brand mac and cheese, your cheap...think about it

i try not to question history on anything cause its just to complex. I just accept the way the world according to god's has the plan and i think that nazism was an important step in history. maybe the commies would have taken over the world without them

Note that im not saying that nazism was religiously defended and i feel that God intended Humanity to end their evil reich, but i try not*** to say that any change in history would*** prove to be any better cause the one as is is the plan of God.

Any opinions on that???
Are you saying communism is evil?

But it went against his entire way of thinking. I think it was because they somewhat proved to him that not all Jews were what he described them as.

Only God knows.

Its just interesting, because like you said, it went against his entire way of thinking.

yes of course it is....Communism is evil

U know that Fascist Dom.

Are you saying communism is evil?

He's just using a standard "it's in god's plan" response. Usually paired with a "god is unfathomable".

Fascism was founded as a group of guys that wore black and went around beating up commies

So id assume that you hate communism to Fascist Dom.

a leapord cant loose its spots. weather you admit your cheap or not, if your buying topps brand mac and cheese, your cheap...think about it

What is all this about?

This must be anti-semitic propaganda. The fact that it comes from a university makes it even more suspect, since at many universities, even the worst anti-semitism is tolerated if it is in some way connected to anti-Israelism.

actually there was no such thing as a half-jew

your father could be jew, but if your mother wasnt jewish, it doesn't count(so ur either full jew or not jew)

if your father is christian, and your mother is jewish, then you are considered a full jew, no exceptions

yes of course it is....Communism is evil

U know that Fascist Dom.
Not at all. I think communism is a noble ideal, but too impractical and optimistic with regard to humanity to ever work.

He's just using a standard "it's in god's plan" response. Usually paired with a "god is unfathomable".
I know.

I am still sceptical. There could have been some people in the Nazi establishment with some Jewish ancestry (concealed maybe) but it would still be very sceptical for me to believe the OP.

I know that there were instance of Indian soldiers of the British Indian army defecting to the Indian National Army of Subhash Chandra Bose and joining the Nazis.....that itself was hard for me to digest...but jews in Nazi army...I don't think so.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3684288.stm
Hitler's secret Indian army

Fascism was founded as a group of guys that wore black and went around beating up commies

So id assume that you hate communism to Fascist Dom.
I don't hate it. I simply realize it can't work, so I go with something more practical: Order. Besides, I don't practice the same brand of fascism that Mussolini coined.

well im alittle different than you even though i consider myself a christian fascist on alot of things

oh i see

I give you the log cabin republicans. (http://online.logcabin.org/)

There are always those willing to lick the hand that strikes them. There is always a "house ******." Always a quisling. Always someone "more worth" among the worthless.

:mad: ive seen that before and i dont like them at all

If they become the mainstream of the republican party ...ill have to find a new party one much more controlling christian and conservative

It is a slick website, but I think it should be taken with a grain of salt.

It is a slick website, but I think it should be taken with a grain of salt.
Or a gram of cyanide.

I give you the log cabin republicans. (http://online.logcabin.org/)

There are always those willing to lick the hand that strikes them. There is always a "house ******." Always a quisling. Always someone "more worth" among the worthless.

Agreed. But what I Find most interesting about these pictures, is that it shows how integrated Jews were into German, even Nazi society. Its really strange. It's also wierd how Hitler doesnt seem to care that they are Jewish if they are a amazing individual.

Just goes to prove that the bastard was full of shit.

Agreed. But what I Find most interesting about these pictures, is that it shows how integrated Jews were into German, even Nazi society. Its really strange. It's also wierd how Hitler doesnt seem to care that they are Jewish if they are a amazing individual.

Just goes to prove that the bastard was full of shit.


BS.

They were talented individuals so Hitler probably just wanted to use them only in the duration of the war. After endsieg(final victory) he would have ordered them all to be shot.

BS.

They were talented individuals so Hitler probably just wanted to use them only in the duration of the war. After endsieg(final victory) he would have ordered them all to be shot.

I dont know.

Look at the third picture down..the one on the right. Look what it said.

"This photo of "half-Jew" Werner Goldberg, who was blond and blue-eyed, was used by a Nazi propaganda newspaper for its title page. Its caption: "The Ideal German Soldier.""

There are a bunch of others that he supposedly "Aryanized".

Anyway...I doubt he would have ordered people like this to be shot. He couldnt even kill Rommel because he was such a great German warrior, he made Rommel commit suicide.

Hitler was just a fucked up man, with a fucked up idealogy.

They're 'half-jews' which means they have a Jewish parent. No, I would hardly consider them to be Jewish.

I dont know.

Look at the third picture down..the one on the right. Look what it said.

"This photo of "half-Jew" Werner Goldberg, who was blond and blue-eyed, was used by a Nazi propaganda newspaper for its title page. Its caption: "The Ideal German Soldier.""

There are a bunch of others that he supposedly "Aryanized".

Anyway...I doubt he would have ordered people like this to be shot. He couldnt even kill Rommel because he was such a great German warrior, he made Rommel commit suicide.

Hitler was just a fucked up man, with a fucked up idealogy.I find it disturbing to see this, but these men were no different the the thousands of others that followed, didn't question, and allowed themselves to be led.

Most Jews in Germany (unlike eastern Europe) were totally assimilated, mostly secular, urban types of people that mixed freely with the rest of German society. So it isn't that surprising that they too would want to join the army and follow Hitler to a) preserve their places in German society and/or b) as a means of staying alive. I think the former is far more likely, since not many people knew about the death camps during the war. These "Half-Jews" probably wanted nothing to do with Judaism, and were probably not raised in a Jewish community of any sort.

If German Jewry interests you, Th Atlantian Islands, there is a vast amount of literature about it.

I find it disturbing to see this, but these men were no different the the thousands of others that followed, didn't question, and allowed themselves to be led.

Most Jews in Germany (unlike eastern Europe) were totally assimilated, mostly secular, urban types of people that mixed freely with the rest of German society. So it isn't that surprising that they too would want to join the army and follow Hitler to a) preserve their places in German society and/or b) as a means of staying alive. I think the former is far more likely, since not many people knew about the death camps during the war. These "Half-Jews" probably wanted nothing to do with Judaism, and were probably not raised in a Jewish community of any sort.

If German Jewry interests you, Th Atlantian Islands, there is a vast amount of literature about it.

Good points and a very likely post.

My family is German-Jewish...thats why this thing hits close to home.

Well, I have my doubts whether they would have been allowed to serve in the SS for example. Unless of course they got the special certificate of Aryan-ness like the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem.

But these soldiers and officials obviously didn't consider themselves Jews, and that's all that counts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Germany
It's a long story. I particular like the "After 1945" bit though. Maybe the Jews will come back, which will be good for Germany to deal better with the Holocaust. Plus, a Germany without Jews is a little bit like a New Orleans without the Black people.

Well, I have my doubts whether they would have been allowed to serve in the SS for example. Unless of course they got the special certificate of Aryan-ness like the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem.

But these soldiers and officials obviously didn't consider themselves Jews, and that's all that counts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Germany
It's a long story. I particular like the "After 1945" bit though. Maybe the Jews will come back, which will be good for Germany to deal better with the Holocaust. Plus, a Germany without Jews is a little bit like a New Orleans without the Black people.

You really think so?

Anyway, very interesting, I agree.

I found something you'd like Neu, "The Jewish community in West Germany from the 1950s to the 1970s was characterized by its social conservatism and generally private nature."

You really think so?
Sure.

Plus, someone will need to take our place...
http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,414520,00.html
http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,414145,00.html

Also good, albeit somewhat less topical:
http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,414347,00.html

While SS had strict laws governing racial purity and applicants had to provide genalogies to prove that there bloodlines where indeed free of jewish blood the Wehrmacht was not as strict.
i read somewhere one of the high ranking german generals openly boosted about the jewish blood in his bloodlne (i will try find the name of this individual), the jewish presence in germany prior top the holocaustwas immense much larger than it was in the Uk for instance.

Depends...Do they follow Judaism?


Obviouly not, that's a silly question, I don't know nothing about the "jews" soldiers of hitler, but the third reich had clear rules about who was and who wasn't jew. They must be declared not jew to be accepted in the army.
There were cases of war heroes (WWI) killed as the rest of the jews.

Not surprised at all. After all, Heydrich was supposedly of Jewish descent, and he was one of the architects of the Final Solution - he was at the Wannsee Conference - and a high ranking SS officer, second only to Himmler.

I dont know.

Look at the third picture down..the one on the right. Look what it said.

"This photo of "half-Jew" Werner Goldberg, who was blond and blue-eyed, was used by a Nazi propaganda newspaper for its title page. Its caption: "The Ideal German Soldier.""

There are a bunch of others that he supposedly "Aryanized".

Anyway...I doubt he would have ordered people like this to be shot. He couldnt even kill Rommel because he was such a great German warrior, he made Rommel commit suicide.

Hitler was just a fucked up man, with a fucked up idealogy.
They probably would have "committed suicide" or died in a "training accident" with new technology or some prisoner of war or Slavic insurgent killed them. Something absurd like that.

I find it disturbing to see this, but these men were no different the the thousands of others that followed, didn't question, and allowed themselves to be led.

Most Jews in Germany (unlike eastern Europe) were totally assimilated, mostly secular, urban types of people that mixed freely with the rest of German society. So it isn't that surprising that they too would want to join the army and follow Hitler to a) preserve their places in German society and/or b) as a means of staying alive. I think the former is far more likely, since not many people knew about the death camps during the war. These "Half-Jews" probably wanted nothing to do with Judaism, and were probably not raised in a Jewish community of any sort.

If German Jewry interests you, Th Atlantian Islands, there is a vast amount of literature about it.
I think you underestimate the number of people who knew about the death camps. I think they just didn't talk about it much; it's a rather distasteful subject. After all, they intended to kill the Jews: not much to talk about there. And the great heroes of the Wehrmacht generally were very far from the deathcamps, so they probably wouldn't have known anyway.

I don't doubt the accuracy of that site. According to John Toland's biography of Hitler, the law was that if you had only one or two Jewish grandparents, didn't practice the Jewish religion, and wern't married to a Jew, you were considered a Mischlinge (halfbreed) and could be issued a "blood certificate" making you exempt from racial laws. (They probably wouldn't have been able to join the SS, however, because you had to prove that you've had no Jewish ancestors going back to 1750)

Incidently, according to this policy, Jesus Christ wouldn't be considered a Jew, since being the Son of God he would've had only two Jewish grandparents, and of course wouldn't have been married to a Jew or practicing Judiasm.

There was also a Jewish group in Germany that supported Hitler when he was first elected, because they wanted him to keep Jews from eastern Europe out of the country.

I would definately recommed John Toland's book to anyone interested in WWII or Nazi Germany, as it's one of the best books about the subject that I've ever read.

Not surprised at all. After all, Heydrich was supposedly of Jewish descent, and he was one of the architects of the Final Solution - he was at the Wannsee Conference - and a high ranking SS officer, second only to Himmler.
The taunting about his "Jewish" body structure really drove him into a rage against Jews, so blame the children for that. Children are evil, you know.

I don't doubt the accuracy of that site. According to John Toland's biography of Hitler, the law was that if you had only one or two Jewish grandparents, didn't practice the Jewish religion, and wern't married to a Jew, you were considered a Mischlinge (halfbreed) and could be issued a "blood certificate" making you exempt from racial laws. (They probably wouldn't have been able to join the SS, however, because you had to prove that you've had no Jewish ancestors going back to 1750)

Incidently, according to this policy, Jesus Christ wouldn't be considered a Jew, since being the Son of God he would've had only two Jewish grandparents, and of course wouldn't have been married to a Jew or practicing Judiasm.

There was also a Jewish group in Germany that supported Hitler when he was first elected, because they wanted him to keep Jews from eastern Europe out of the country.

I would definately recommed John Toland's book to anyone interested in WWII or Nazi Germany, as it's one of the best books about the subject that I've ever read.
Actually, you are quite mistaken about Jesus. He did practice Judaism. In fact, he was a rabbi.

Actually, you are quite mistaken about Jesus. He did practice Judaism. In fact, he was a rabbi.

Yes, that's absolutely true. The Mischlinge thing was just how the Nazis tried to explain how Jesus wasn't really a Jew. In a way, you could say that Jesus was the world's first Christian, since he preached against many of the rules that were practiced in Judiasm at the time (stoning for adultery and whatnot) and was promoting a new philosophy.

This isnt really debatable, just sort of shocking.

I think everyone will find this interesting and disturbing at the same time.

Comments are obviously welcomed.



Hitler's Jewish Soldiers
The Untold Story of Nazi Racial Laws and Men of Jewish Descent in the German Military


Pictures of Jews in the Nazi military. (http://www.kansaspress.ku.edu/righitpix.html)

Just because they were in the German Wehrmacht doesn't make them Nazi. There's a Difference between being a normal dude in the Wehrmacht as opposed to being a Nazi and/or in the S.S.

I see no problem here...

I see no problem here...
The problem arises if you start assuming that their is some sort of Jewish people, overarching nationalities and all that. Because if you do that, then these Germans obviously could never have considered themselves German, instead of Jewish.

But if you stay realistic, and keep in mind the times (other than hardcore Zionists, of which there were not that many around at the time, people around the world considered themselves just normal citizens who happen to have a different religion), then this isn't much of a surprise.

And that's still ignoring that being a "half-Jew" is an impossibility. Judaism is a religion, not a race. You can either believe in Judaism, or not.

You cant look like a racial Jew because there is no racial Jew.
Then what does it matter what they look like?

As a note to everyone, I think when people refer to a Jewish race, they really mean the Israeli/Semitic ethnicity.

The problem arises if you start assuming that their is some sort of Jewish people, overarching nationalities and all that. Because if you do that, then these Germans obviously could never have considered themselves German, instead of Jewish.

But if you stay realistic, and keep in mind the times (other than hardcore Zionists, of which there were not that many around at the time, people around the world considered themselves just normal citizens who happen to have a different religion), then this isn't much of a surprise.

And that's still ignoring that being a "half-Jew" is an impossibility. Judaism is a religion, not a race. You can either believe in Judaism, or not.

*Sigh*

If I could fit this all in my profile I would.

Excellent post, as usual.

Then what does it matter what they look like?

As a note to everyone, I think when people refer to a Jewish race, they really mean the Israeli/Semitic ethnicity.

It matters because they lived in Nazi Germany in the Nazi military..and it obviously mattered to the Nazis.

Thats all.

Are you sure they weren't just very good at hiding their Jewishness and happened to fit the "Aryan" description.

Although I know that wikipedia isn't 100% reliable, take a look at this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_policy_of_Nazi_Germany

Especially the chart on the right side is interesting, as it shows how "half-Jews" were "made up". It is loosely based on "race" and not, how it should be (according to Judaism) on the religion (Jewish mother etc.).

Meh, screw all this nazi-stuff!

Anyway, this whole thing is nothing new to me. As long as the Reich profitted from them, they were welcome to fight and die for it, just like all the other Wehrmacht soldiers.