NationStates Jolt Archive

So I was at lunch today with my friends...and we were driving in my car blasting some Rammstein (which I just started listening to and I love), and I heard him make a sound where he sort of rolled the R's....I forget the word but I dont think that really matters.

Anyway, to get to the meat and potatoes of my thread, I asked someone about it and they told me it was a Nazi thing. Can anyone explain why rolling your R's is a Nazi thing, because I'm pretty sure one rolls R's in spanish too.

Also, can you teach me how to do it, how you make the sound with your mouth? I could really use it as I'm learning spanish and it sounds totally cool.

The Nazis, in order to test the battlefield effectiveness of rolled R's, shipped a large quantity to Franco's armies during the Spanish revolution. That's why a Nazi sound is used in Spanish.

Finally, someone else who can't do it! Well, I can now, but I couldn't. I really haven't a clue how I learnt...basically, keep trying and don't give up.

The Nazis, in order to test the battlefield effectiveness of rolled R's, shipped a large quantity to Franco's armies during the Spanish revolution. That's why a Nazi sound is used in Spanish.

Ahhh, good old Drunk Commies. I can always* count on you for an explanation.


*Of course by always I mean never.

I speak two languages. One where you don't roll the Rs (Portuguese) and another where it is optional (English). This means that although I can roll my Rs I don't.

I speak two languages. One where you don't roll the Rs (Portuguese) and another where it is optional (English). This means that although I can roll my Rs I don't.

It optional in English?

I've never heard anyone roll R's in english.

It optional in English?

I've never heard anyone roll R's in english.

Scots do.

Finally, someone else who can't do it! Well, I can now, but I couldn't. I really haven't a clue how I learnt...basically, keep trying and don't give up.

What langauge where you trying to use it in?

Also, why is it considered Nazi-ish?

It optional in English?

I've never heard anyone roll R's in english.

Try listening to some of the Scots speaking English then.

Over here in Canada, instead of Starbucks we have Tim Horton's basically. I think there are Starbucks maybe, but I've never seen one. Anyway, it's a coffee joint and they have a period of time each year where you "roll up the rim to win". It's like checking a bottle-cap to see if you win anything. You roll the rim of the paper cup up with your fingers and you can win free stuff. The commercials advertising this 'time of year' (friggin' everyone goes to Tim's at some point in their journey through life) always roll the R. Rrrrroll up the rim to win. I don't get it. I blame Satan.

it's not nazi at all. posh scots do it too, as do some spanish, french, german accents and probably more besides. i can't though, at least not in the context of actual speach anyway.

Scots do.

I've never met a Scot in real life, so I guess I stand corrected. :)

i don't know, with my accent i can roll my r's(not very a common thing for an irish accent... i'm just different) plus i speak spanish. and, as well as that i have a double-jointed tongue, don't know if that helps i just wanted to let you guys know ;)
all you have to do is put your tongue at the roof of your mouth and blow

Much of this information is on Wikipedia.

I speak two languages. One where you don't roll the Rs (Portuguese) and another where it is optional (English). This means that although I can roll my Rs I don't.

I have never come across a time when it was even acceptable to roll your Rs in English. And I'm a native speaker.

I am learning Spanish, so there is some need to roll Rs.

Speaking of Spanish, I hate it when kids in my class don't pronounce ll right. They'll pronounce "llamar" like lamar, rather than yamar. And the teacher does NOTHING about it. It drives me insane.

Anybody ever seen A Clockwork Orange? "Two pens- one black, one rrrrred!"

I occasionally roll my own Rs.

But then I am a Scot... though I dont have a very Scottish accent.

*humps The Atlantian islands*

You got me thinking about that scene in "Spanglish" where that lady can't say "Floar".. or something.. and I just did it right for the first time, I think I'll give you the credit for that :fluffle:

Oh, and I can roll r's but don't need to. I can roll other things too :D

all you have to do is put your tongue at the roof of your mouth and blow

It sounds like my tongue is trying to die

Yes, we Scots roll our ars, but it can be a regional thing.

It sounds like my tongue is trying to die

aww, well my sincerest condolences

Rammstein (which I just started listening to and I love)
Woo! Rammstein!

I roll my R's when I speak German, though not otherwise. That is more common in southern Sweden.

*humps The Atlantian islands*

Easy, down boy!:p

You got me thinking about that scene in "Spanglish" where that lady can't say "Floar".. or something.. and I just did it right for the first time, I think I'll give you the credit for that :fluffle:

Oh, and I can roll r's but don't need to. I can roll other things too :D

I still cant do it. My rolling R's tend to sound like something out of German and Hebrew....more deep and guteral.


Much of this information is on Wikipedia.

Link, please? I looked and I couldnt find it.

Woo! Rammstein!

I roll my R's when I speak German, though not otherwise. That is more common in southern Sweden.

How exactly do you do it?

Also, do you know why people have told me its a Nazi thing?

In the different dialects of Dutch, there are three types of R: rolling, "English" and something sounding a bit like the German ach-laut, or the Spanish J.

To answer the original question of "how to produce a rolling R": just start with an "English" R and push your tongue forward along your palate, pressing a bit, but not too hard. You should, at some point, start rolling automatically, either with R, or with laughter...

Woo! Rammstein!

I roll my R's when I speak German, though not otherwise. That is more common in southern Sweden.

Vill du se en stjärrrrrrrrrrrrrna, se på mig! :p

If you can't roll your 'R's, the ladies will avoid you.

Anyway, I roll my 'R' if the language I'm speaking calls for it. That's about it.

How exactly do you do it?

Also, do you know why people have told me its a Nazi thing?
I have no idea. I have to force my self to say "strong" R's, it just comes natural when I speak it.

No.

Edit: My german teacher (whom we always joked about being a nazi) also rolled his R's and complimented everyone who did. Hmm....

Edit #2: I've tried to roll my R's in swedish, but I just... gurgle instead.

If you can't roll your 'R's, the ladies will avoid you.

Duh! Why do you think I'm trying so hard to learn?

Link, please? I looked and I couldnt find it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alveolar_trill

I can roll my 'r's, but my friend Gurmeet can't, despite the fact that his first language is punjabi (a language with a fetish for rolling all kinds of crazy consonents). He blames his inability on his freakishly short tongue, and that's probably it, while most people can at a stretch touch their nose, he can hardly reach the top of his lip.

Duh! Why do you think I'm trying so hard to learn?

Smart man!

Anyway ... relax your tongue, and let the breath coming out of your mouth be in control. Think of those old school film projectors and try to mimic the sound.

Like most things, it just takes a bit of practice. In no time, you'll be able to peel wallpaper with your tongue roll ... like an Argentinian accent.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alveolar_trill

Hmmm...it doesnt really give any help as to how to MAKE the sound, though.

Woo! Rammstein!

INterestingly, I dont roll my R's when saying that.

Smart man!

Anyway ... relax your tongue, and let the breath coming out of your mouth be in control. Think of those old school film projectors and try to mimic the sound.

Like most things, it just takes a bit of practice. In no time, you'll be able to peel wallpaper with your tongue roll ... like an Argentinian accent.

I just keep getting this hard deep sound, like when using Hebrew.

If you can't roll your 'R's, the ladies will avoid you.? You mean it shows off how cunning you are as linguist?

Over here in Canada, instead of Starbucks we have Tim Horton's basically. I think there are Starbucks maybe, but I've never seen one. Anyway, it's a coffee joint and they have a period of time each year where you "roll up the rim to win". It's like checking a bottle-cap to see if you win anything. You roll the rim of the paper cup up with your fingers and you can win free stuff. The commercials advertising this 'time of year' (friggin' everyone goes to Tim's at some point in their journey through life) always roll the R. Rrrrroll up the rim to win. I don't get it. I blame Satan.

I got a free coffee every 4th or 5th coffee I got at Tim's this year. I love Timmy's, but the commercials drive me insane.

I just keep getting this hard deep sound, like when using Hebrew.

Yeah ... that's some of the problem. You gotta divorce yourself from the guttoral Hebrew sound you'll want to make. Rolling an 'R' is softer, done more with the palate than the epiglotus (or however that's spelled).

Sort of a tapping of the tongue on the bit where the back of the top teeth meet the gumline.

How I learned to do it well was I learned how to play flute.

? You mean it shows off how cunning you are as linguist?

Disco.

Yeah ... that's some of the problem. You gotta divorce yourself from the guttoral Hebrew sound you'll want to make. Rolling an 'R' is softer, done more with the palate than the epiglotus (or however that's spelled).

Sort of a tapping of the tongue on the bit where the back of the top teeth meet the gumline.

How I learned to do it well was I learned how to play flute.

OK, I'm sorta getting it...but it doesnt come out as a rolling R, just as a sound my tounge makes when it moves really fast....Ehhhhhhhhh:headbang:

On the semi unrelated subject of Rammstein
Du Hast Rodents (http://www.flashplayer.com/music/duhastrodents.html)
It's funny cos the song and the flash are totally unrelated.

I still only end up blasting spit-laden air past a motionless tongue:(
Still practising though.

Yeah ... that's some of the problem. You gotta divorce yourself from the guttoral Hebrew sound you'll want to make. Rolling an 'R' is softer, done more with the palate than the epiglotus (or however that's spelled).

Sort of a tapping of the tongue on the bit where the back of the top teeth meet the gumline.

How I learned to do it well was I learned how to play flute.

When I used to take singing lessons (I can't now because the wretched council won't let me) I was taught to roll the letter 'r' with this little exercise:

Romabella, romabella, romabella, romabella,
Romabella, romabella, romabella, zahee.

Have a try as you go down the scale (whatever suits your pitch).

OK, I'm sorta getting it...but it doesnt come out as a rolling R, just as a sound my tounge makes when it moves really fast....Ehhhhhhhhh:headbang:

Hehehe ... well it's one of those things that anything comes with.

If you can learn Hebrew, you can learn to roll your tongue. Hebrew ain't an easy language. Just keep practicing. We'll have you speaking Spanish in no time!

When I used to take singing lessons (I can't now because the wretched council won't let me) I was taught to roll the letter 'r' with this little exercise:

Romabella, romabella, romabella, romabella,
Romabella, romabella, romabella, zahee.

Have a try as you go down the scale (whatever suits your pitch).

I'm still getting a deep harsh sound.

It sounds way more German-Hebrew than Spanish.

We had a german Student visit our German Class in 5 year... we all went out to have a chat, and everyone seems to have asked him "Magst du Rammstein?" Only German band we knew.

Oh, and he didnt btw.

Hehehe ... well it's one of those things that anything comes with.

If you can learn Hebrew, you can learn to roll your tongue. Hebrew ain't an easy language. Just keep practicing. We'll have you speaking Spanish in no time!

My mom can do it..I just asked her.

But she can speak Spanish/German/French and some Italian...so I guess thats obviouse.


AND...my little brother and Sister can do it too!

*dies*

Scots do.

Don't get me started on the disgusting corruption that some accents can wreak upon language! Some Scots of my acquaintance have horrible accents and are almost entirely hopeless when it comes to grammar, pronunciation, spelling and so on and so forth. Completely indecipherable! I'd better stop now or I'll start going on about the Scottish National Party and the Scottish Socialist Party.

i can't do it. i lived in wales for two years and had to muddle through with place-names and crazy welsh-sounding, R-rolling people's names and... and... it was horrible! :( *breaks down and cries*

oh studied german for 5 years as well, and my mum is german, and i go see german family in germany a fair bit, and i still can't do it :(

We had a german Student visit our German Class in 5 year... we all went out to have a chat, and everyone seems to have asked him "Magst du Rammstein?" Only German band we knew.

Oh, and he didnt btw.

Does Magst mean like?

Can't stand Rammstein either.

Romabella, romabella, romabella, romabella,
Romabella, romabella, romabella, zahee.


You have just brought up painful memories.

Thanks.

Romabella .... *sigh* .... :p

If anyone needs me, I'll be in the angry dome.

You have just brought up painful memories.

Thanks.

Romabella .... *sigh* .... :p

If anyone needs me, I'll be in the angry dome.

I am what one might term a mental sadist. A friend of mine goes in for the actual physical side more than myself.

I'm still getting a deep harsh sound.

It sounds way more German-Hebrew than Spanish.

Tip of the tongue ... not back of it.

It will come. Just keep tryin'. :)

Does Magst mean like?

Yup... sorry, should have explained that for those that dont know German.

Well, technically to like it "moegen" (or at least I think so... cant remember... oh dear, I should be better at this). Magst is the du (informal singular, like "you" in English, but then we dont have a difference between formal and informal) form.

Sorry... swot coming through....

We roll our Rs in Esperanto ;)... and I speak a good amount of Spanish, too. So yes. I can roll my Rs, but I remember not being able to do it at one point.

Yup... sorry, should have explained that for those that dont know German.

Well, technically to like it "moegen" (or at least I think so... cant remember... oh dear, I should be better at this). Magst is the du (informal singular, like "you" in English, but then we dont have a difference between formal and informal) form.

Sorry... swot coming through....

Thanks for that explanation. I rather like learning languages, in fact..when I go to college next year, I plan on taking German and Russian...my two favorite sounding languages. :)

Just as soon as I can master this damn rolling R:p

Thanks for that explanation. I rather like learning languages, in fact..when I go to college next year, I plan on taking German and Russian...my two favorite sounding languages. :)

Just as soon as I can master this damn rolling R:p

Russian, oh how I abhor thee.
Well, sort of. I stopped liking it when I realised I couldn't roll my Rs. And I can't be bothered any more.

Russian, oh how I abhor thee.

Why?:confused:

Don't get me started on the disgusting corruption that some accents can wreak upon language!

Whats wrong with some people having a different accent? It not fitting with your perception of how it "should" be is nothing bad.


Some Scots of my acquaintance have horrible accents

Ach, judging people by their accents, really.


and are almost entirely hopeless when it comes to grammar, pronunciation, spelling and so on and so forth.

Ok, this is more of a problem, in writing, but spoken language is more flexible. Scots is a different dialect remember (No one try to claim it is a seperate language).


Completely indecipherable!

Ach, no its not. Sometimes it gets a bit strong, but your average person speaking the Scots dialect is perfectly understandable... if you have half a brain.

He he, the Trainspotting needing subtitles in America story amused me no end. Its not even particularly strong in most parts.

Begging your pardon, you haven't met these people! Just imagine the most incomprehensible buffoon that you can and treble them and you're still not even close to the murky depths of what these people are attempting to communicate.

I'm putting the tip of my tongue on the ridge just behind the top row of my teeth and blowing at a steady rate, no results, what bit am I doing wrong?

Also, why is it considered Nazi-ish?

Well, I do remember reading somewhere that in most dialects of German, the "r" is made in the back of mouth, but in the dialect Hitler spoke, it was rolled. I also read that lead to a great decline in the use of rolled "r" after WWII, as well. On the other hand, I'm not sure how true that is. I don't even remember the source.

I speak English where rolling R's isn't necessary, but some people do it. (See Star Wars: Battlefront II, the Empire's voice actor in CTF "The rrrrebels have scored!!")
But I also speak French. So yeah, if I feel like it, I can roll the R's when I speak it. But usually I'm lazy and I don't, which results in French still, but a really bad accent. x.x;

I speak English where rolling R's isn't necessary, but some people do it. (See Star Wars: Battlefront II, the Empire's voice actor in CTF "The rrrrebels have scored!!")
But I also speak French. So yeah, if I feel like it, I can roll the R's when I speak it. But usually I'm lazy and I don't, which results in French still, but a really bad accent. x.x;

The French R is a bit different from the normal roll. It's more of a nasty, throaty gargle. Of course, I pronounce it wrong, and don't know what I'm talking about.

I'm putting the tip of my tongue on the ridge just behind the top row of my teeth and blowing at a steady rate, no results, what bit am I doing wrong?
withdraw tongue 11 mm (approx)

Well, I do remember reading somewhere that in most dialects of German, the "r" is made in the back of mouth, but in the dialect Hitler spoke, it was rolled. I also read that lead to a great decline in the use of rolled "r" after WWII, as well. On the other hand, I'm not sure how true that is. I don't even remember the source.

If thats true than that would most totally be what its about.

Any people from the Fatherland wanna come here and comfirm this?

See, all this is why us here in New England got rid of our Rs.

See, all this is why us here in New England got rid of our Rs.

Haha...ugh...Paak the caa in Havaad yaad. :headbang: :D

Haha...ugh...Paak the caa in Havaad yaad. :headbang: :D

Pahk the cah in Hahvahd yahd.

Pahk the cah in Hahvahd yahd.

lol, either way its terrible!

Do you really speak like that?

lol, either way its terrible!

Do you really speak like that?

Not so pronounced, no. No one not in Good Will Hunting actually speaks like that. It's just a cute little mockery of how we speak.

Say "butter" over and over and over again, your tongue will naturally want to start rolling. (That's how our Spanish teacher tought us) The rolling motion is also a sweet way to flutter tongue on the flute...

Say "butter" over and over and over again, your tongue will naturally want to start rolling. (That's how our Spanish teacher tought us) The rolling motion is also a sweet way to flutter tongue on the flute...

I am trying..I am trying...I still cant get it though.:headbang:

I have learnt to do it through learning the French language. It's really not that difficult.

Yeah, I can do it.

^ Like Boonytopia, I learnt it through French.

Anyway, to get to the meat and potatoes of my thread, I asked someone about it and they told me it was a Nazi thing. Can anyone explain why rolling your R's is a Nazi thing.

Are you taking the piss?

Newfies also roll their rs

Thank you, now my tongue aches.

I can do it both with the tongue and in the throat (the R's, I mean of course), but I usually don't. It sounds pretentious and unnecessary.

Newfies also roll their rs
Not all of us. It's mostly from the Scottish part of the ancestry, as well, not an 'original' thing. Nothing is original about Newfies except their ability to make horrible, ridiculously offensive jokes about themselves, then laugh themselves silly when they tell the joke to/hear itfrom another Newf. xD

I have never come across a time when it was even acceptable to roll your Rs in English. And I'm a native speaker.


As a native limey, I have encountered it occassionally - usually in the form of 'received English' that also pronounces the 'h' sound in words like 'what' and 'which' (if you've encountered that - it uses the same mouth-shape as the 'o' sound, and comes out kind of like 'h-what').

It's not that common, but it could be argued to be 'proper' English.

How exactly do you do it?

Also, do you know why people have told me its a Nazi thing?

Because people aren't very bright, collectively?

It is unfortunate, but in some minds, anything German equates to Nazi, and anything Nazi equates to German.

The rolled 'r' is a very strong 'r'. It is emphatic. It is 'pronounced', in the truest sense. Maybe a number of Nazis used (or use) it for that purpose - but that doesn't make it a 'Nazi' thing.

i learned to do it in by making drumroll sounds. you just relax you mouth, keep your tongue up by the roof of your mouth, and exhale.

i still remember (?) the tongue we used to have to recite in spanish class (i think, please cut me some slack if these aren't totally accurate; it's been about 25 years...)

erre con erre cigarro,
erre con erre barril
rapido corren los carros
sobre los rieles el ferrocarril

and

tres tristes tigres tragaron tres tasa de trigo

So I was at lunch today with my friends...and we were driving in my car blasting some Rammstein (which I just started listening to and I love), and I heard him make a sound where he sort of rolled the R's....I forget the word but I dont think that really matters.

Anyway, to get to the meat and potatoes of my thread, I asked someone about it and they told me it was a Nazi thing. Can anyone explain why rolling your R's is a Nazi thing, because I'm pretty sure one rolls R's in spanish too.

Also, can you teach me how to do it, how you make the sound with your mouth? I could really use it as I'm learning spanish and it sounds totally cool.

Put the tip of your tongue up in your gaumen. Then move fastly the tip of your tongue while saying R...Something like that, it happens automatically...

Over here in Canada, instead of Starbucks we have Tim Horton's basically. I think there are Starbucks maybe, but I've never seen one. Anyway, it's a coffee joint and they have a period of time each year where you "roll up the rim to win".
I take it no-one has ever told the good people at Tim Hortons that 'rim' can have several meanings, one of which makes their slogan funny in a gross, juvenile way.

Don't most Germans pronounce "R" in the throat or something?

In latin Rs are rolled with the tongue. And Cs are hard.

In latin Rs are rolled with the tongue. And Cs are hard.

Yep. "Julius Caesar" is actually pronounced "Iulio Kaisehr". Pretty cool.

Yep. "Julius Caesar" is actually pronounced "Iulio Kaisehr". Pretty cool.

I'm not sure how that C is hard to pronounce, though. Is it a throaty noise, like in Ahmed?

Yep. "Julius Caesar" is actually pronounced "Iulio Kaisehr". Pretty cool.


Has that got anything to do with the root of the German word Kaiser?

Has that got anything to do with the root of the German word Kaiser?

Yep, and the Russian word tsar.

Hmm... interresting.

Don't most Germans pronounce "R" in the throat or something?

Depends on the place of r. The R in reich isnt from throat. The R in drei is from throat.

Yep. "Julius Caesar" is actually pronounced "Iulio Kaisehr". Pretty cool.
Really? In German, we just normally say "Yulius Tsäsar". Weird.

Depends on the place of r. The R in reich isnt from throat.
If I say it, there is no difference. I pronounce all R's in the upper throat. But then, I don't do the whole Hitler-esque pretentious rolling either.

Canadian English doesn't call for rolled r's, but I do it sometimes anyways. Especially when I sing. My singing teacher is very gung-ho about r-rolling. Probably because she was born and raised in Scotland.

Really? In German, we just normally say "Yulius Tsäsar". Weird.


If I say it, there is no difference. I pronounce all R's in the upper throat. But then, I don't do the whole Hitler-esque pretentious rolling either.

How can you say reich with r from throat? :eek:
Where do you live in germany?

If thats true than that would most totally be what its about.
Any people from the Fatherland wanna come here and comfirm this?
I will not confirm that. I call BS. :rolleyes:

Because people aren't very bright, collectively?

It is unfortunate, but in some minds, anything German equates to Nazi, and anything Nazi equates to German.

The rolled 'r' is a very strong 'r'. It is emphatic. It is 'pronounced', in the truest sense. Maybe a number of Nazis used (or use) it for that purpose - but that doesn't make it a 'Nazi' thing.
Now we're getting closer to the source of it! ;)

Are you taking the piss?
Aha! Thought so myself!!! :D

Don't most Germans pronounce "R" in the throat or something?
Funny story, actually.
So the English-speaking mouth apparently uses different muscles than the German-speaking one, and after I had spent many months only speaking English, I noticed that it became harder and harder for me to pronounce my last name properly - because not only does it include the somewhat-in-the-throat-produced rolling "r" (mentioned above as in "drei") but ist also followed by an Umlaut (doesn't really matter which; ä, ö, ü).
Anyway, I ended up mispronouncing my own surname because of lack of practice.
Took me about a week to get that straightened out (and I won't even start on how people managed to mispronounce my last name...)

How can you say reich with r from throat? :eek:
Where do you live in germany?
Tense up and use a lot of airflow I guess :p

How can you say reich with r from throat? :eek:
Well, it's hard to explain. Normally I just say it like I would say any other word with an R at the beginning, no rolling involved.
But I also can make the rolling sound with my throat...I think GM is right, tensing up and using lots of air is pretty close. :p

Where do you live in germany?
Used to live in Hamburg, no longer though. Brisbane, Australia right now.