NationStates Jolt Archive

In the US, there is a debate about illegal immigration. Some people think that it is racist. Others think that protecting our borders from possible threats(we already have enough trouble with our own criminals. We don't need any of the mexican criminals that blend in with the other illegals). Who's most at fault? I say Mexico.

Which "mess" are you describing?

I think Mexico. Poll coming.

Which mess, British, US or French? I presume you mean the American one, but there are major issues about imigration elsewhere at the same time.

Al Qaeda.

If it weren't for those jackasses, no one would give a shit about illegals coming in and picking fruit or whatever.

You need to add an "all of the above" option.

Who's most at fault? I say Mexico.

how can you possibly say it is mexico's fault

you seem to forget mexico is far far poorer than the us, they cant afford to make the country better so saying oh mexico you should make yourself better in a completely ridiculous comment.

The US. If they would crack down on the corporations hiring the 'illegals' there wouldn't be any mess. And also if immigration was made easier, the so-called 'illegals' coud walk in comletely legally.

I'm going to assume you're referring to the UK, and I'm blaming the US.

Why? Because I feel like it.

how can you possibly say it is mexico's fault

you seem to forget mexico is far far poorer than the us, they cant afford to make the country better so saying oh mexico you should make yourself better in a completely ridiculous comment.
Ever stop to ask yourself why a country with the second largest oil field in the world and a wealth of natural resources is so poor?

Ever stop to ask yourself why a country with the second largest oil field in the world and a wealth of natural resources is so poor?
Because they is Immigrants?

Maybe I'm retarded, or maybe I'm an arrogant American asshole, but here's my two cents:

I don't understand why people who live in Mexico don't, instead of coming here, stay in their home country and work to make it a better place. They say there are no jobs there well then make jobs, eh? Instead of coming up here, create your own business down there. Start up a factory with a bunch of people and start creating jobs. Build up your countries economy. Don't squabble by saying you're a tourist-based economy, either. Plenty of tourist-based economy countries are doing way better than Mexico, and they aren't every college girl's vacation destination.

So, I guess I just don't understand why they come here and avoid the problem that needs so much attention in Mexico, instead of staying there and trying to fix it so people don't have to brave the journey to America.

It just doesn't make sense to me.

In the US, there is a debate about illegal immigration. Some people think that it is racist. Others think that protecting our borders from possible threats(we already have enough trouble with our own criminals. We don't need any of the mexican criminals that blend in with the other illegals). Who's most at fault? I say Mexico.

What mess? You are a country built on immigration, even more so and even more recently than every other country on earth that is built on immigration (which is, basically, every country on earth, with the exception, of course, of Kenya, the birthplace of modern homo sapiens). So there's no mess. Immigration is the American way! DEAL WITH IT...

The Sioux and Mohawk and Cree and etc etc had to.

Because they is Immigrants?
Because their country is run for and by a Spanish oligarchy that has taken on a populist, socialist mantra to fool the people of the country into believing they are operating in their best interest. Their resources say they should be rich, but their economic policies only ensure that some people stay rich an most others stay poor and to uneducated to understand why.

The US. If they would crack down on the corporations hiring the 'illegals' there wouldn't be any mess. And also if immigration was made easier, the so-called 'illegals' coud walk in comletely legally.
I tend to agree, although Mexico could be a bit more forthcoming with its own solutions.

I blame the Europeans of old. If they hadn't immigrated in their imperialistic, manifest-destiny citing droves to the continent, maybe the indigenous populations would still be thriving.

1) there is no mess
2) the percentage of the population in the u.s. that is foreign born is lower than it was when our grandparents' were growing up.
3) the laws are now such that almost none of the ancestors of usians would have been able to get here 'legally' if they were in place back then.
4) latin american immigration only really picked up due to problems that appeared in the 80s (the debt crisis and the associated political strife, the general collapse of the peso, development programs that forced people off their land, etc).
5) the u.s. and it's capitalist owners are actively exploiting the situation of undocumented workers on a huge number of levels.
6) the u.s. still goes out of it's way internationally to paint itself as "the land of opportunity" where the streets are paved with gold and nobody is poor.

Blame?

I don't think there's a lot of blame to be had.

People have migrated for all of human history. The fact that that action is now "illegal" doesn't stop that urge to go from a place with fewer resources/opportunities to one with more. It's also human nature to be territorial. We're really just smart pack wolves. So new a animal want to join our pack, and we like our pack the way it is, thankyouverymuch. So we fight, claw, mark trees, etc, until eventually it all calms down and the new animal either links away or joins the pack hierarchy.

Because their country is run for and by a Spanish oligarchy that has taken on a populist, socialist mantra to fool the people of the country into believing they are operating in their best interest. Their resources say they should be rich, but their economic policies only ensure that some people stay rich an most others stay poor and to uneducated to understand why.
You almost just described modern South Africa. :)

Now, my view. Both nations are partially to blame for doing little to resolve the issue, but most of the blame should be apportioned to the employers who seek to hire immigrants in this way. The immigrants themselves share some of the culpability.

PS: What is the difference between a "camel" and a "camal"? Is it a typo? :confused:

I blame the Europeans of old. If they hadn't immigrated in their imperialistic, manifest-destiny citing droves to the continent, maybe the indigenous populations would still be thriving.
Let's stick to the present though, and actually deal with what is now pertinent, not some arcane history, the relevance of which is only referential.

I blame the Europeans of old. If they hadn't immigrated in their imperialistic, manifest-destiny citing droves to the continent, maybe the indigenous populations would still be thriving.


If by thriving you mean human sacrfices, cutting out human hearts, and chopping off mens' penises, you are correct.

The minimum wage laws are at fault.

If there weren't illegals to do this low-paying (and undocumented) work, then that work simply wouldn't get done in the US. Cheap foreign labour is the only reason the US has agriculture - otherwise, you'd just import all your food, because you couldn't produce your own cheaply enough.

how can you possibly say it is mexico's fault

you seem to forget mexico is far far poorer than the us, they cant afford to make the country better so saying oh mexico you should make yourself better in a completely ridiculous comment.
Actually, because it's so poor they can't afford not to make it better. Several things appear to indicate that Mexico is at the edge of social chaos (again) and emmigration is just a symptom.

The next administration has to be very intelligent if they don't want the country crumbling in their hands.

I don't understand why people who live in Mexico don't, instead of coming here, stay in their home country and work to make it a better place. They say there are no jobs there well then make jobs, eh? Instead of coming up here, create your own business down there.
Most jobs being created in Mexico are underground, in fact. Informal retailers accounts for a very sizable chunk of the economy. Unfortunately by itself it's not enough to carry the country, plus it's based on a lot of illegal activities, like piracy and selling stolen stuff.

Factories and the like require money to get started and, because interest rates are relatively low and risk is still high, banks and not loaning. They prefer to loan to already established businesses rather than support a new company. The banking system is a mess, frankly. Because money is scarce people prefer to buy the cheapest stuff they can get, and that's Chinese imports, which means very little chance of successfully creating a manufacturing company.

The government has been giving a few microcredits to people wanting to start a small business, but that's a very slow growing strategy and there are no guarantees for success. Many immigrants go back with enough money to start their own business and some of them do well.

The thing is that the problem has very deep structural roots and it's not easily solvable, especially not by the uneducated poor who are just looking for a chance to escape starvation.