NationStates Jolt Archive

One of those questions where there really is no easy answer. For what purpose are governments created? What should the ultimate goal of a government be? No debate about the policies of a government can truly be complete without having a common starting point regarding what ends it is actually supposed to acheive. It will be interesting to see if the members of the 4 different quadrants (and the center) answer the question.

I'd give my own answer first, but I've been struggling with the question for the last few weeks (after being utterly trounced in a debate/shouting match).

One of those questions where there really is no easy answer. For what purpose are governments created? What should the ultimate goal of a government be? No debate about the policies of a government can truly be complete without having a common starting point regarding what ends it is actually supposed to acheive. It will be interesting to see if the members of the 4 different quadrants (and the center) answer the question.

I'd give my own answer first, but I've been struggling with the question for the last few weeks (after being utterly trounced in a debate/shouting match).

The purpose of government is generally whatever the folks with the most power decide it is.

to safeguard peoples' lives, liberty, and property.

the end.

to safeguard peoples' lives, liberty, and property.

the end.

Yes! But property is defined as the product of one's life and liberty, so it includes more than just your cash and car.

Edit: Also, if it helps you, I'm a neo-libertarian, just so you can note down my political affiliation and what I think of government's role thereof.

Yes! But property is defined as the product of one's life and liberty, so it includes more than just your cash and car.

k, intellectual and creative property included.

The simple answer is that preservation is the purpose of instituting any sort of government. Strength in numbers, the imposition of order upon chaos; that's what's deemed necessary for increasing the chances of survival in a finite and uncaring world. Political theory that looks primarily to preservation is generally easier to deal with since there's no disagreement as to what preservation means, it's only a matter of making policy decisions that are the most beneficial to that goal.

There's a more complicated answer than that though and it involves not only mere preservation but the improvement of the quality of humans that are produced by a society, and that gets us into the more subjective arguments about what it is to be a human and whether we should aim at something greater than material perservation. It's complicated though because different people have different views of what these ends ought to be and it often gets us into trouble in political theory.

For what purpose are governments created?

to solidify and institutionalize the power of the would-be rulers over their intended subjects and to hold that power against other would-be rulers.

What should the ultimate goal of a government be?

to stop

the purpose of government is to do for the people what they can't do for themselves (which lately they have replaced can't with won't and that annoys me)

To figure out which groups get which resources in society. Also, to maintain law and order so that no one is abused.

Well governments started out so big men could have more and more stuff and more slaves and more women/men. But people sort of got sick of that and decided they wouldn't let big men get away with that sort of stuff and so they had this civil war thingy in England and a revolution in America and France and a general reform act in the U.K. and so on and eventually people decided that goverment should be for the benefit of the people. But something got stuck somewhere along the way and people often think the purpose of government to to serve a sort of mutant imaginary thing stuck between a big man and actual democracy. Thus you have politicians saying they will serve America instead of Americans or advance Australia instead of Australians. It's as if a political unit is what is important, not the people the unit is supposed to be serving. And still big men make trouble and want to go back to the good old days when they where on top, and not just rich but considered superior to other men and women.

For what purpose are governments created?
Ultimately depends on what your view of human nature is (if you believe there is such a thing) Most would probably say that government stop us all from stabbing each other in the back, nicking each others stuff and making human existence what Thomas Hobbes called ‘nasty, brutish and short’. The philosophical anarchist, on the other hand, would argue (in a very general way) that government is imposed by the strong, and that without government we would all basically get on with one another; humanity would flourish.

You can follow these two very old ideas into modern politics. Both the US and the UK are liberal democracies, examples of political systems that balance the needs of liberty (freedom to do what you like without government interfering) and security (government protecting you and your property from harm, theft, etc). Most, if not all of the arguments in modern politics come from people’s differing views on where the balance should lie.

Ultimately depends on what your view of human nature is (if you believe there is such a thing) Most would probably say that government stop us all from stabbing each other in the back, nicking each others stuff and making human existence what Thomas Hobbes called ‘nasty, brutish and short’. The philosophical anarchist, on the other hand, would argue (in a very general way) that government is imposed by the strong, and that without government we would all basically get on with one another; humanity would flourish.

You can follow these two very old ideas into modern politics. Both the US and the UK are liberal democracies, examples of political systems that balance the needs of liberty (freedom to do what you like without government interfering) and security (government protecting you and your property from harm, theft, etc). Most, if not all of the arguments in modern politics come from people’s differing views on where the balance should lie.

So your interpretation is that government is a tool for people to use to allow them to control one another?

Out of curiosity, is that name in any way connected with Chumba Wamba?

So your interpretation is that government is a tool for people to use to allow them to control one another?
Not exactly. I believe it can be used for that, and frequently does. But I also believe that with robust scrutiny, real and viable accountability to the people, and the proper safeguards, government could benefit humanity. I have doubts about the pheasability of anarchism, however initially attractive the concept sounds.

Out of curiosity, is that name in any way connected with Chumba Wamba?
It is indeed. It’s Alan Partridge’s misspelling of Chumbawumba. I think the line goes:

‘I see what you’re trying to do. Your trying to be anarchic. Like Chumblywumbly.’

Ensure the rights of the governed. Nothing more, nothing less.

What exactly those rights are is the sticky point.

One of those questions where there really is no easy answer.I disagree. Government is the tool by which some people force their wishes on other people.

I think the real question is whether such a tool is desirable or not.

Government's only purpose should be providing a military for national defense; police to protect citizens and maintain order; and courts to settle legal disputes. Nothing else. Government should not subsidize the rich or the poor, act as a surrogate mother, police the world, impose morality, or invade privacy. Its sole purpose should be protecting the lives and liberty of the people.

"The only justifiable purpose of political institutions is to assure the unhindered developement of the individual..." - Albert Einstein

That answer your question?

Ideally, the purpose of government is to do for the people those things they cannot do for themselves (not those things they will not do for themselves).

In actual fact, the purpose of government is the enrichment of the few at the expense of the many.

Unfortunately, without it, we would probably all be competing with chimpanzees for the good spots and losing.

Government is supposed to supply the common defense and redistribute the profits of society in a manner somewhat equitable.

The purpose of government is to provide order, defense, justice, and a minimun amount of wellfare for it's citizens. Also, it is a conduit for those citizens to act upon the world outside of their country.

Government is supposed to...redistribute the profits of society in a manner somewhat equitable.

so what would you say about all the states that were hanging around before the welfare state appeared on the scene?

What is the purpose of government?

a) To provide a non-violent means of conflict resolution amongst its constituents,

b) To protect its constituents from physical harm from forces both internal and external,

c) To facilitate necessary public works such as sewage treatment, fire fighting and roads.

Generally, to promote the best interest of its consituents. The degree to which a government suceeds at this varies from government to government. Everthing else, from public education, to universal healthcare, to government subsidies, are extensions of trying to find what's in the interest of constituents, but not necessarily a priority of government.

Depending on whether I want to use my 'rightie'-rhetoric or my 'leftie'-rhetoric the purpose of government is 'to create a situation in which production (of goods, etc. [or just wealth as a whole]) is as easy as it can be' or 'to guide society into such a situation where government is no longer needed.
Although essentially these are just two sides of the same coin.

Governments exist to keep things "civilized". For example, I don't have to worry about some guy trying to steal my house because he has more guns than I do.

Unfortunately, sometimes government itself becomes a problem. I do have to worry about government stealing my house because THEY have more guns than I do, and giving it to an evil greedy business because it has more dirty green paper than I do.

For what purpose are governments created?

To maintain the traditional roles of power.

What should the ultimate goal of a government be?

To eliminate power.

Government is supposed to supply the common defense and redistribute the profits of society in a manner somewhat equitable.

How about just upholding their equitable distribution. If that is done, there is no need for redistribution.

to safeguard peoples' lives, liberty, and property.

the end.


The state exists in most countries because it has evolved out of the personal fiefdoms of tyrants. The state has no other purposes than perpetuating its on existance and, since the American and French Revolutions, justifying itself to the populace. In as much as it has purposes, these are ascribed to it by different rulers and potential rulers in attempts to secure their own futures and generate political capital.

To eliminate power.

Sounds kind of socialist :)

The proper role of government would be to assure the fairest, most just and equitable possible distribution of power. Libertarians would say that is best accomplished by facilitating free trade.

Oppression

To maintain the traditional roles of power.



To eliminate power.

I agree with that sentiment.

Sounds kind of socialist :)

The proper role of government would be to assure the fairest, most just and equitable possible distribution of power. Libertarians would say that is best accomplished by facilitating free trade.

It sounds more anarchist to me, as I view socialism (without anarchism) as a shifting of power, rather than an elimination. It says, "Well someone has gotta be in power, so lets make sure it is the masses."

I also support free trade, but have some reservations about what constitutes free trade.

Governments exist because people in the past decided they wanted to rule. Simple as that. The notion of ensuring social justice and so on didn't come until "because I said so" started to lose its effect as a justification.

Governments exist because people in the past decided they wanted to rule. Simple as that. The notion of ensuring social justice and so on didn't come until "because I said so" started to lose its effect as a justification.

well put