NationStates Jolt Archive

I was perusing the One World Government thread when I saw this:Hah! We’ve kicked your ass, and came back to save it, twice now. Plus we have your PM whimpering around our President like a little puppy.

And since you say UK, Ireland and Scotland can barely own themselves.

We totally own the UK. (My emphasis.)

Now, I don’t want to get into a protracted argument about what country was most instrumental in bringing WW1/WW2 to a close, or even a more general argument about the merits of the US, there’s plenty enough threads for that elsewhere.

However, I am really interested, in a spectacularly pedantic sort of way, by Dokugakuji’s use of the word ‘we’. I’m assuming here that Dokugakuji isn’t a WW1/WW2 veteran, and didn’t take part in any aspect of either war. Yet s/he seems to feel that the location of her/his birth somehow involves him in that nations history.

From my point of veiw, this sems a little strange. I don’t feel any special connection with the people who lived in the country of my birth before me, and the acheivments or actions of those people don’t hold any special significance for me; no more so than the actions of people bon in a different part of the world. The country of my birth is just that and no more–the place I happened to be born in.

I’m not denying that the country of my birth has no effect on me whatsoever–my language, accent, and to some extent my morals, attitudes and political views are shaped by my life in the UK. However, my morals, attitudes and political views differ wildly from many of the other 60 million or so UK citizens, and I don’t feel any shared identity them. I don’t understand how such a disparate group of people can claim to hold a common identity.

Does anyone else feel the same?

Or maybe you disagree completely?

Posty!

I am an American and as proud as I am for all of the positive aspects of my country, I do not negate the negatives. As for wether or not I identify with other Americans, on some issues I do, but for the most part I do not.

One stupid American does not speak for all of us. Often times, the ones who claim to speak for us are too stupid to understand what the hell they are speaking about, thus giving the world the impression we are all idiots. This can also be said of the people of the Middle East. One group of angry, disenchanted, phsychopathic maniacs does not speak for an entire region of people. :cool:

Personally I'm still trying to make sense of this line:

And since you say UK, Ireland and Scotland can barely own themselves.

Some help here, guys.

I’m not denying that the country of my birth has no effect on me whatsoever–my language, accent, and to some extent my morals, attitudes and political views are shaped by my life in the UK. However, my morals, attitudes and political views differ wildly from many of the other 60 million or so UK citizens, and I don’t feel any shared identity them. I don’t understand how such a disparate group of people can claim to hold a common identity.

Does anyone else feel the same?

Or maybe you disagree completely?

Posty!

You're quite correct that you don't hold a common personal identity, of course. You can certainly, however, hold a common national identity with those other folks running around the UK. Two quite different things, it would seem to me.

And quite frankly, anyone who acts as though they speak for the entire US is going to get a nice, "Speak for your own damn self" remark from me.

Personally I'm still trying to make sense of this line:



Some help here, guys.

...

I'm not even sure what that means. How does a country 'own' itself?

Personally I'm still trying to make sense of this line:

Some help here, guys.

Given the context and syntax, I think he's basically saying y'all barely have control over your respective nations. It was definitely poorly worded.

Given the context and syntax, I think he's basically saying y'all barely have control over your respective nations. It was definitely poorly worded.

We barely have control?

*Looks around*

Admittedly I'm in the South of the UK, but I don't see a joint Irish-Scottish-Welsh army descending upon us. I could be wrong. I hope not, but I could...

Given the context and syntax, I think he's basically saying y'all barely have control over your respective nations. It was definitely poorly worded.

Yeah, but the nation of Ireland isn't part of the UK, while Scotland is... so, presumably there must either be siome double meaning here or just an error.

Yeah, but the nation of Ireland isn't part of the UK, while Scotland is... so, presumably there must either be siome double meaning here or just an error.

Probably just an error. I'm not going to expect a double entendre from that particular quoted post. Errors, however, are quite likely.

Yeah, but the nation of Ireland isn't part of the UK, while Scotland is... so, presumably there must either be siome double meaning here or just an error.
That part was bugging me most of all, regardless of the rest of the stupidity there... if you're gonna say something as incredibly derogitory towards the British as that... at least get your facts straight!

I was perusing the One World Government thread when I saw this: (My emphasis.)

Hah! We’ve kicked your ass, and came back to save it, twice now.

Now, I don’t want to get into a protracted argument about what country was most instrumental in bringing WW1/WW2 to a close, or even a more general argument about the merits of the US, there’s plenty enough threads for that elsewhere.

I know you don't want this, but someone obviously needs to do some reading up on the Battle of Britain, with particular attention to its dates and reference to what the USA was doing at the time. Fair play to the US volunteers that fought in it, though.

You should see the way sports fans talk about thier teams if that bothers you...

It is a little silly, but it more or less is a figure of speech. "We" is a team and 'we' are on that team and that team did something, so 'we' did it, even if 'we' did it before the person joined. It's really just an expression, I don't really think that even the psycho sports fan that use the 'we' really believe that they are that involved in the thing they are taking credit for.

We barely have control?

*Looks around*

Admittedly I'm in the South of the UK, but I don't see a joint Irish-Scottish-Welsh army descending upon us. I could be wrong. I hope not, but I could...

Oh, you know those sneaky Irish, Scottish and Welsh. :)

I jest, of course. I have nothing against any of those folks.

We barely have control?

*Looks around*

Admittedly I'm in the South of the UK, but I don't see a joint Irish-Scottish-Welsh army descending upon us. I could be wrong. I hope not, but I could...

mwuhahahahaha....

Crap.. I said that out loud... aw nuts...

*puts pitchfork away*

mwuhahahahaha....

Crap.. I said that out loud... aw nuts...

*puts pitchfork away*

See? Sneaky, just like I said. :cool:

See? Sneaky, just like I said. :cool:

Still have a long way to go before they catch up with perfidious Albion in the sneaky stakes though.

Still have a long way to go before they catch up with perfidious Albion in the sneaky stakes though.

You have an impressive range of reference, my friend. But your proposal is a modest one, and I think I'll agree.

What is national pride... well for evearyone it is something diffrent but in the context of in someway identifying themselves with a nation has produced the greatest empires on the face of the earth for good or ill.

The benchmark of all great civilizations is national identity, when this fails so does that empire. For example Rome... The greatest republic on the face of the earth at its high before the cue of the emperor which lead to its decline was the result of the pride of being Roman. The pride in ones nation allowed the empire to grow and become secesfull because of the pride in thier nation. Rome was originally a small little tiny village and grew into an empire.

"Who would have thunk" the a tiny island off the cost of europe could control 1/4 of the worlds landmass and bring civilization to the corners of the globe. This nation was britain. This is a benchmark of any great civilization. Decline and war have since diminished this power of Britain but let us ask the question, when did the french rule an empire or come close to greatness?? Napoleon is the answer... to which national pride drove scores of thousands to join in his expansion bringing to the forfront of europe the napoleonic ideas and the distruction of dynasties of kings this national pride was able to rally a nation and a people to a cause but after it past the french have not been able to achieve greatness.

This fever of national pride has always been in my nation the United States since our founding fathers achieved independance. Seen in the proud History and tradition of america to which I am graced to be born into. Nobody can contest the united states at the current time is not, the greatest empire (superpower for all those who for some reason cant see empires as moral) because its greatness is self evident in our influence in the world.

While national pride always boarders on nationalism thier is a clear diffrence. national pride is a connection to the nations traditions and histories. I take my love of country to heart. My ancestors wherent here or old enough to fight in the great wars nor even the revolution. They came here on ships looking for a new life in a dying europe. America has a tradition of ideals and stresses the individual. These ideals are what creates this national pride. Carring on tradition of those who fought died and bleed for such ideals makes one feel such pride in those who came before me.

Now let me end my long typign spree with no review for spelling with a quote to which traditions I have grown to love and cherish.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" - Thomas Jefferson. -Declaration of Independence

"...the nation of Ireland isn't part of the UK..."
Did you froget N. Ierland? Part of the UK fool. And as an American that doesn't want to be draged down by Bush, "Down with the pychopath!"

Did you froget N. Ierland? Part of the UK fool. And as an American that doesn't want to be draged down by Bush, "Down with the pychopath!"

Somehow I seriously doubt that BWO has forgotten Northern Ireland.

I'm German. There's no way I could get around the topic of my country's past. So I have a certain responsibility to make sure that a) what has happened is not forgotten and b) it doesn't happen again.

Besides, it is something special to root for your own team on international sports events.

Reminds of a quote when Germany won the 1954 Football World Championship and some of the men were sitting at the kitchen table celebrating "We've accomplished it, we've accomplished it!" and then the wife of one of them gives them a look from the stove and says "You have just accomplished enough!" :D

"...the nation of Ireland isn't part of the UK..."

Did you froget N. Ierland?

Most assuredly not.

Part of the UK fool.

Yes.

Now do you want to read what I actually wrote, rather than what your preconceptions forced you to read? Since when has Northern Ireland been part of the nation of Ireland?

The text of article 2 of the Bunreacht na hÉireann was altered in 1999 so no territorial claim was made any longer over the six counties, in case it escaped your notice.

I'm German. There's no way I could get around the topic of my country's past. So I have a certain responsibility to make sure that a) what has happened is not forgotten and b) it doesn't happen again.

yes the german political and social history has not been a thing to admire in the last century. A thing to feel pridefull in is the great scientific achievments from germany and to rebuild the great german scientific tradition but its your country do what you will with it. Let it be a lesson to us all:(

Besides, it is something special to root for your own team on international sports events.

I remember when I was stationed in Germany 4 years ago the only time I'd ever see flags were during soccer games and some Hessian state holiday. Oh, and Reunification Day, which we would have off from work.

I know you don't want this, but someone obviously needs to do some reading up on the Battle of Britain, with particular attention to its dates and reference to what the USA was doing at the time. Fair play to the US volunteers that fought in it, though.

One of the reasons the Brits hung on during the Battle of Britian was the fact that the US supplied them with tons of equipment and resources during the war. People seem to forget that. Also, without the US, the manpower needed for the operations in France and western Europe would be nearly impossible to acquire; Not to mentions the equipment used in that as well.

One of the reasons the Brits hung on during the Battle of Britian was the fact that the US supplied them with tons of equipment and resources during the war. People seem to forget that. Also, without the US, the manpower needed for the operations in France and western Europe would be nearly impossible to acquire; Not to mentions the equipment used in that as well.

Gotta love that lend lease act.. selling guns can get any nation outta a depression:D and aid a fellow ally

One of the reasons the Brits hung on during the Battle of Britian was the fact that the US supplied them with tons of equipment and resources during the war.

Yes, however the Battle of Britain was concluded and won before the lend-lease plan went into operation. In essence it was just trade as normal goinf on across the Atlantic, rather than any particularly magnaminous action on the part of the US.

Also, without the US, the manpower needed for the operations in France and western Europe would be nearly impossible to acquire; Not to mentions the equipment used in that as well.

True (although let us not overlook the Canadians here), but the later operations in France and Western Europe were not concerned with saving the UK directly: it had already been secured for the foreseeable future by September 1940.

Gotta love that lend lease act.. selling guns can get any nation outta a depression:D and aid a fellow ally

The lend-lease act didn't go into operation until March 1941. The Battle of Britain was over by October 1940, but had been decided about a month earlier. Let us not get things muddled here.

The lend-lease act didn't go into operation until March 1941. The Battle of Britain was over by October 1940, but had been decided about a month earlier. Let us not get things muddled here.

Ill give that to ya:D ill admit that I suck with dates but americans were fighting with british to defend britian at the time just as we were helping the chinesse.

Ill give that to ya:D ill admit that I suck with dates but americans were fighting with british to defend britian at the time just as we were helping the chinesse.

Yes, there were a small bunch of volunteer pilots from the US who fought in the Battle of Britain (this is prior to the formation of the Eagle Squadrons, who missed most of the action, and weren't solely staffed by Americans), I am not denying that.

I remember when I was stationed in Germany 4 years ago the only time I'd ever see flags were during soccer games and some Hessian state holiday. Oh, and Reunification Day, which we would have off from work.
That's pretty much it. Holidays and game days. Everything else has been bombed out of us and is regarded with suspicion :p

I’m German. There’s no way I could get around the topic of my country’s past. So I have a certain responsibility to make sure that a) what has happened is not forgotten and b) it doesn’t happen again.
See, this is what I don’t understand. I fully appreciate the importance of remembering the horrible deeds that humanity has propagated, lest they ever repeat themselves. What I don’t get is how you, as a German citizen, need to have a higher awareness/responsibility than I do. That would seem to suggest that the Germanic peoples have a natural tendency to genocide or totalitarianism, which is something I just don’t accept.

Surely all of humanity must be aware of the perils of totalitarianism and bigotry, not just those who happen to live in countries where crimes were committed previously?

You, unless you’re fairly old, had nothing whatsoever to do with the Nazi’s. It seems awfully unfair on you to carry a burden of such guilt.

Besides, it is something special to root for your own team on international sports events.

Really? Call me a cranky old poo, but I don’t enjoy watching sport. A lot more important things in the world than seeing if some overpaid bloke can kick/putt/pass/catch/throw a ball.


Egads! BWO, please not another ifitwasntforusyoudhavebeenspeakinggermanbynow argument. I don’t mean to single you out, but they do drag on so...

Egads! BWO, please not another ifitwasntforusyoudhavebeenspeakinggermanbynow argument. I don’t mean to single you out, but they do drag on so...

Yeah, I'm sorry but glaring errors in the quoted section of the first post, and then subsequent responses drove me to it. I will categorically go on record here and now as stating that I consider there to be absolutely nothing wrong with speaking German, and I myself have willingly attempted to do so several times.