NationStates Jolt Archive

Welp ladies and gents.. it's here! The list of, as the cover states, The most influential people"

I came home today and found the biggest issue I have ever seen. Looked through it, felt like spreading the love!

I will list them organized as the website lists them so.. here:

I'll also color code the names to how I feel about them.

Red = No, I'd rather not see them anymore.
Green = Yeah!
Orange = ... who is that?
Purple = Meh..

Leaders & Revolutionaries (http://www.time.com/time/2005/time100/leaders/)
George Bush
Condoleezza Rice
Bill Clinton
Barack Obama
Bill Frist
Donald Rumsfeld
Mark Malloch Brown
Gordon Brown
Ali Husaini Sistani
Abu Mousab al-Zarqawi
Hu Jintao
Kim Jong Il
Manmohan Singh
Thabo Mbeki
Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger
Mahmoud Abbas
Ayaan Hirsi Ali
Ariel Sharon
Javier Solana
John Howard
Chen Shui-bian
Hugo Chavez

Artists & Entertainers (http://www.time.com/time/2005/time100/artists/)
Clint Eastwood
Michael Moore
Hilary Swank
Quentin Tarantino
Dan Brown
Dave Eggers
Marc Cherry
John Elderfield
Kanye West
Jon Stewart
Alicia Keys
Jamie Foxx
Johnny Depp
Art Spiegelman
The Halo Trinity
Ann Coulter
Hayao Miyazaki
Ziyi Zhang
Juanes
Miuccia Prada
Marc Newson
Santiago Calatrava
Alice Munro
Cornelia Funke

Builders & Titans (http://www.time.com/time/2005/time100/builders)
Steve Jobs
The Google Guys
Lee Scott
Meg Whitman
Martha Stewart
Craig Newmark
Jay-Z
Amy Domini
Reed Hastings
Bram Cohen
Martin Sorrell
John Bond
Howard Stringer
Katsuaki Watanabe
Noël Forgeard
Anne Lauvergeon
Ren Zhengfei
Lee Kun Hee
Roman Abramovich
The BlackBerry Guys
Rupert Murdoch

Scientists & Thinkers (http://www.time.com/time/2005/time100/scientists/)
Jeffrey Sachs
Malcolm Gladwell
Robert Klein
Andrew Weil
Burt Rutan
Karl Rove
Rick Warren
Brian Atwater
Mitchell Baker
Timothy Garton Ash
Natan Sharansky
Abdolkarim Soroush
Peter Singer
Richard Pound
Lee Kuan Yew
Larry Summers

Heroes & Icons (http://www.time.com/time/2005/time100/heroes/)
Bill Gates
Oprah Winfrey
LeBron James
Eliot Spitzer
Melissa Etheridge
The Dalai Lama
Nelson Mandela
Viktor Yushchenko
Dina Astita
Hania Mufti
Wangari Maathai
Mary Robinson
Lubna Olayan
Ellen MacArthur
John Stott
Michael Schumacher
Stephen Lewis

Agree, disagree? Discuss.

Ratzinger is the pope.

how do you 'meh' nelson mandela and the dalai lama?

dont take this as personal, but what is the state of america if at least 85% of that list is 'unknown' . . . .

(apologizes, for it is a sweeping generalization.)

Bill Frist

this is an important one. he might be running for president...

Ratzinger is the pope.
Welp.. I'm going to hell.
how do you 'meh' nelson mandela and the dalai lama?
Lack of.. um.. intrest.. yeah, intrest :D
dont take this as personal, but what is the state of america if at least 85% of that list is 'unknown' . . . .
I only read the local news in the paper.. maybe I should read more than that.. *shrugs*
(apologizes, for it is a sweeping generalization.)
s'all good

this is an important one. he might be running for president...
Really?

How do I not know his name then??

Ratzinger is the pope.

how do you 'meh' nelson mandela and the dalai lama?

dont take this as personal, but what is the state of america if at least 85% of that list is 'unknown' . . . .

(apologizes, for it is a sweeping generalization.)

Nelson Mandela was a terrorist.

OK, let's see who I can identify for you...

Leaders & Revolutionaries (http://www.time.com/time/2005/time100/leaders/)
Gordon Brown
Chancellor of the Exchequer in the UK
Manmohan Singh
Indian President
Thabo Mbeki
I think, South-African President
Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger
Pope Benedict (some numbers go here)

Artists & Entertainers (http://www.time.com/time/2005/time100/artists/)
Ziyi Zhang
Chinese Actress from films including "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon", "Hero", "House of Flying Daggers" and "Rush Hour 2"

Builders & Titans (http://www.time.com/time/2005/time100/builders)
Steve Jobs
Boss guy of Apple Computer

Scientists & Thinkers (http://www.time.com/time/2005/time100/scientists/)
Burt Rutan
Creator of Space Ship One, the first craft built without any government funding to reach space.

Heroes & Icons (http://www.time.com/time/2005/time100/heroes/)
Viktor Yushchenko
Won an election in *checks wikipedia* Ukraine

Michael Schumacher
Racing car driver of some sort

Guess there's a lot that I don't know either.

Really?

How do I not know his name then??

you must watch fox news... lol

you must watch fox news... lol
Ohhhh, so he's good?

Nelson Mandela was a terrorist.

Your point being?

Your point being?

I didnt have one but now that you ask, I dont think he should be under "heros and icons" being a terrorist and all.....maybe under revolutionaries and leaders.

Ohhhh, so he's good?

eh, hes republican. but hes ok i guess...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Frist

I didnt have one but now that you ask, I dont think he should be under "heros and icons" being a terrorist and all.....maybe under revolutionaries and leaders.

Is he an icon to many? Yes.
Is he a hero to many? Yes.

Is he a leader? No, but he was.
Is he a revolutionary? No, but he was.

Seems fair enough to me.

Is he an icon to many? Yes.
Is he a hero to many? Yes.

Is he a leader? No, but he was.
Is he a revolutionary? No, but he was.

Seems fair enough to me.

So would you put Osama up there too?

So would you put Osama up there too?

I don't know if he has iconic status, and is still active as both a revolutionary and a leader (to the best of our knowledge), so I'd stick in that category.

I don't know if he has iconic status, and is still active as both a revolutionary and a leader (to the best of our knowledge), so I'd stick in that category.

Yes, that would make sense.

But I just dont see how people can justify putting a terrorist under a "hero" catagory.

eh, hes republican. but hes ok i guess...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Frist
Oh my.. he supports intel design.. and stem cell research..

[[[CANNOT COMPUTE]]]

*head explodes*

Yes, that would make sense.

But I just dont see how people can justify putting a terrorist under a "hero" catagory.


Ex-terrorist.*

Are you suggesting that 'hero' is an ethical title?


* see how good I'm being, and not even mentioning 'freedom fighters' or the like?

Oh my.. he supports intel design.. and stem cell research..

[[[CANNOT COMPUTE]]]

*head explodes*

that happens sometimes..

Oh my.. he supports intel design.. and stem cell research..

[[[CANNOT COMPUTE]]]

*head explodes*

Divided by a zero, eh?

*set-up warning*

Ex-terrorist.*

Are you suggesting that 'hero' is an ethical title?


* see how good I'm being, and not even mentioning 'freedom fighters' or the like?

Well done on that! That would have been my first point.

Ex-terrorist.*

Are you suggesting that 'hero' is an ethical title?


* see how good I'm being, and not even mentioning 'freedom fighters' or the like?


I am suggesting that concepts such as good and evil do exist on this earth.

Ah, I was totally waiting for that freedom fighter crap...when you didnt post it right in the begining, I freaked out and fell off my chair. :D

I am suggesting that concepts such as good and evil do exist on this earth.

Possibly, possibly not, but what does this have to do with whether someone is viewed as a hero or not?

Possibly, possibly not, but what does this have to do with whether someone is viewed as a hero or not?

Because if hes a terrorist, hes evil.

And people who are evil, can not be heros.

Because if hes a terrorist, hes evil.


So Nelson Mandela is evil.....

Wow...

Yes, that would make sense.

But I just dont see how people can justify putting a terrorist under a "hero" catagory.
well, i'm pretty sure bush attacked a random country for no reason so why is he in there?

:rolleyes:

perspective means everything.

So Nelson Mandela is evil.....

Wow...

Well...Terrorism is evil, and he was a terrorist who participated in terrorism.

So, take what you want from it.

well, i'm pretty sure bush attacked a random country for no reason so why is he in there?

:rolleyes:

perspective means everything.


First of all, your wrong.

The country wasnt picked at random.

It wasnt for no reason.


Jesus, what a terrible post.

Well...Terrorism is evil, and he was a terrorist who participated in terrorism.

So, take what you want from it.

Well I can clearly see that you feel that Nelson Mandela is evil.

I don't think terrorism can be so blanketly described as evil. It depends on what perspective you are coming from.

First of all, your wrong.

The country was picked at random.

It wasnt for no reason.


Jesus, what a terrible post.

wait. iraq was random? :p

sorry. a little off it. bush. . . .is just such an appetizing target when your distracted.

i am wrong. horribly wrong. to you.

mandela ran a smashing boot camp tho.

wait. iraq was random? :p

sorry. a little off it. bush. . . .is just such an appetizing target when your distracted.

i am wrong. horribly wrong. to you.

mandela ran a smashing boot camp tho.

I meant Iraq wasnt random, and you know it.

Apology accepted.

Mandela was a terrorst and was imprisoned for it. He was the leader of a militant black group who used assasinations and car bombings to spread their message.

Well I can clearly see that you feel that Nelson Mandela is evil.

I don't think terrorism can be so blanketly described as evil. It depends on what perspective you are coming from.

How can you say that assasinations and car bombings are not evil?

I meant Iraq wasnt random, and you know it.

Apology accepted.

Mandela was a terrorst and was imprisoned for it. He was the leader of a militant black group who used assasinations and car bombings to spread their message.

ok. seemed strange to see something like that admitted.

mandela, eh, all i can say (poorly) is product of his life and times. think of where he was. simple speeches would not do*.

*completely unfounded argument

How can you say that assasinations and car bombings are not evil?

Because sometimes the ends justify the means.


And 'evil' is such a subjective term anyway.

And people who are evil, can not be heros.

No, they need only be heroic (or perceived as such) to be heroes. Ethics don't come into it.

No, they need only be heroic (or perceived as such) to be heroes. Ethics don't come into it.

Well I'm sorry, but one could only beleive that...



Because sometimes the ends justify the means.


And 'evil' is such a subjective term anyway.


If they beleived in this...

Bill Frist
Senator from Tennessee :D! His family is big into the healthcare services in Nashville, and he used to work as a hearth surgeon at Vanderbilt (which happens to be where I was born). His family also established our art museum in downtown Nashville. Family friend, awesome guy. Good chance he'll be running for President in the next election.

Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger
The new pope. Emperor Papaltine :X.

Mahmoud Abbas
Leader of the Palestinian National Authority.

Michael Moore
Yes, he is quite influential, but in the same way that Hitler influenced Germans. I can't stand this guy, and if I had to pick one person to be removed from the list, it would be him. The last thing we need is more bullsh*t propaganda.

Hayao Miyazaki
Probably the most famous Japanese animator. He's known for movies like Tonari no Totoro (My Neighbour Totoro) and Sen to Chihiro no kamikakushi (Spirited Away).

Steve Jobs
Current CEO of Apple and Pixar. Much, much love to Steve Jobs. Egads I love Apple D:!!!

Bill Gates
Absolutely abhor Microsoft, but he's awesome when it comes to philanthropy, so I'll forgive him T_T.

Viktor Yushchenko
President of the Ukraine. During the election of 2004, he was poisoned with dioxin and became extremely ill. The election went on and the other candidate won, but after a series of protests called the Orange Revolution, there was another round of voting and Yushchenko won.

ok. seemed strange to see something like that admitted.

mandela, eh, all i can say (poorly) is product of his life and times. think of where he was. simple speeches would not do*.

*completely unfounded argument

So because times are rough and your speeches arnt cutting it, it gives you permission to assasinate and car bomb?

Well I'm sorry, but one could only beleive that...

If they beleived in this...

If I say person X is my hero, how can you tell me I am wrong?

Are you claiming that evil is not a subjective term?

Well I'm sorry, but one could only beleive that...






If they beleived in this...

Very well then- to you, who believes that car bombings and assassinations are terrorism and evil no matter what, what is your opinion on Operation Bayonet and Operation Wrath of God, and the people who ordered them and carried them out?

Terrorists? Evil?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Wrath_of_God

So because times are rough and your speeches arnt cutting it, it gives you permission to assasinate and car bomb?
no, it gives you permission to think you can do whatver you want. obviously, his side lost.
Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger
The new pope. Emperor Papaltine :X.

he's certainly displayed Palpatine tendencies. do you have a problem with papists? cause that is very insulting. he is very important to catholics and you have no right to insult him. does this give me a reason to mock your religious leader?

i displayed circular logic, i realize. please forget everything i have posted as irrevocable drivel.

So because times are rough and your speeches arnt cutting it, it gives you permission to assasinate and car bomb?

So what would your response be when the government forces start shooting your children?

he's certainly displayed Palpatine tendencies. do you have a problem with papists? cause that is very insulting. he is very important to catholics and you have no right to insult him. does this give me a reason to mock your religious leader?

No, no. He actually looks like him. Seriously. It's rather disturbing.

If I say person X is my hero, how can you tell me I am wrong?

Are you claiming that evil is not a subjective term?

Easily.

Yup.

Very well then- to you, who believes that car bombings and assassinations are terrorism and evil no matter what, what is your opinion on Operation Bayonet and Operation Wrath of God, and the people who ordered them and carried them out?

Terrorists? Evil?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Wrath_of_God


Retaliation AGAINST terrorism.

Yup.

Okay. What is evil?

No, no. He actually looks like him. Seriously. It's rather disturbing.

creepy (http://jotarp.org/almacen/ratzinger-palpatine.jpg)

or not. hey, may old people look like palpatine.

its only funny when important people get hurt :)

So what would your response be when the government forces start shooting your children?


Did the government shoot his kids?

If so, was it before or after his group assasinated and car bombed?

Retaliation AGAINST terrorism.

So the whole moral difference carried out by a state for political purposes and by a non-state body for political purposes hangs on recognition of the state by the international community?

Okay. What is evil?

I cant define evil for you, thats what the bible is there for.

Retaliation AGAINST terrorism.
which is still terrorism.

slap a name on it, and it breaks down to terrorism also, so i see no valid argument in that statement.

ask what terrorism is to the recipients of that retaliation.

Did the government shoot his kids?

No, but they did shoot the children of others. How would you respond if they had been your children?

So the whole moral difference carried out by a state for political purposes and by a non-state body for political purposes hangs on recognition of the state by the international community?

Or the fact that the terrorists slaughtered an innocent atheletic team and in retaliation, there were a few less arab fanatics, because of the Israelis.

I cant define evil for you, thats what the bible is there for.

So, despite it being objective, we have to depend on hermeneutics of ancient texts in order to understand what it is?

No, but they did shoot the children of others. How would you respond if they had been your children?

Couldnt tell you.

Retaliation AGAINST terrorism.

But you said terrorism no matter what is evil. Car bombings and assassinations are terrorism, and therefore are evil.

You also said that evil is NOT subjective and therefore the above is always true.

You don't see your hypocrisy?

But you said terrorism no matter what is evil. Car bombings and assassinations are terrorism, and therefore are evil.

You also said that evil is NOT subjective and therefore the above is always true.

You don't see your hypocrisy?

zing!

man i wish these discussions occurred when i could logicate!

Or the fact that the terrorists slaughtered an innocent atheletic team and in retaliation, there were a few less arab fanatics, because of the Israelis.

Wider picture. Don't get hung up on the details.

Are you arguing that no matter what action your state carries out all armed action against it is evil?

*bump*

Still awaiting that answer The Atlantian islands.

he's certainly displayed Palpatine tendencies. do you have a problem with papists? cause that is very insulting. he is very important to catholics and you have no right to insult him. does this give me a reason to mock your religious leader?

Erm, yeah, he looks like Emperor Palpatine from Star Wars (http://www.idiotsavantmusic.com/images/emperor_pope.jpg). Absolutely nothing about his policies or anything. I mean, my cousins are Catholic. Wouldn't want to mess with that.

And go ahead, mock His Holiness the Dalai Lama. Somehow, I think he can take it.