NationStates Jolt Archive

Assuming there was a movement to unite Canada, the USA and Mexico into one federal state, would you be for it or against it? And if you're for it, how? An additional federal level above the three nations, or Canadian and Mexican states becoming states of the USA, or should there be a whole new constitutional convention?

I'd rather not see my country's reputation sullied even MORE by association than it already is.

How would such a union be beneficial?

Personally, I see the federal governments of all three of those countries as superfluous, so I really wouldn't like yet another one.

Well, there is this site: http://www.unitednorthamerica.org/home.htm

Doesn't bother me. Let them do what they want. I can't see the Canadians bein all for it though. Or the Mexicans. Or the Americans actually.

Would that be with or without Jesusland?

The only good I see from that is that the US would stop stealing our money by putting illegal tariffs on our softwwod lumber.

I would oppose the hell out of it. Just not illegally. We would have to adopt a US-like prison system, and well, the US prison system is to the Canadian prison system what the Mexican prison system is to the US prison system.

Would that be with or without Jesusland?
Jesusland would be it's name in Christian(the langugage of Jesusland)

It would be fun to hear the screams from businesses if they had to pay USA minimum wages down in Mexico. And worker's rights. And environmental laws.

It would be fun to hear the screams from businesses if they had to pay USA minimum wages down in Mexico. And worker's rights. And environmental laws.
And the screams of Canadian workers when they have accept USian minimum wages.

Create a Confederation level government with strict areas of authority, to regulate economy, trade, and other common issues (defense, navigation, etc) and start building up from there.

At some point a new Constitution will be needed. NAFTA is a step in the right direction of integration, unfortunately, it also highlight the disparity of power in the region and that makes any sort of orderly integration much more difficult.

The advantages of an integrated North America, and eventually an integrated America, to me are quite obvious: free trade, more efficient creation and distribution of wealth, political balance by making it harder for extreme political groups to get too much power, more rational distribution of resources, etc.

However, there's still a very parroquial outlook on life in many countries and it will be very long before this integration can be achieved.

That "parroquial" outlook is what makes life interesting.

I would oppose the hell out of it. Just not illegally. We would have to adopt a US-like prison system, and well, the US prison system is to the Canadian prison system what the Mexican prison system is to the US prison system.
The Mexican prison system is great! You can have your cellphone, a big TV, fridge, people delivering things to your cell, models paying booty call visits any time. Oh, wait, that's only if you're a drug dealer. Nevermind.

That "parroquial" outlook is what makes life interesting.
And also limits it. It's not wrong, the trick is to know when to have a more global view of things.

Sevenglasses']Assuming there was a movement to unite Canada, the USA and Mexico into one federal state, would you be for it or against it? And if you're for it, how? An additional federal level above the three nations, or Canadian and Mexican states becoming states of the USA, or should there be a whole new constitutional convention?

I oppose it. On the grounds that any country + USA = a Bigger USA.

I think that North American Economic Unity is an eventuality. Political is a tougher question. I'd be for it if there was a new constitutional convention, which proposed a federal government that was highly decentralized.

It's difficult to imagine any of the three countries willing to give up that kind of control.

Create a Confederation level government with strict areas of authority, to regulate economy, trade, and other common issues (defense, navigation, etc) and start building up from there.

At some point a new Constitution will be needed. NAFTA is a step in the right direction of integration, unfortunately, it also highlight the disparity of power in the region and that makes any sort of orderly integration much more difficult.

The advantages of an integrated North America, and eventually an integrated America, to me are quite obvious: free trade, more efficient creation and distribution of wealth, political balance by making it harder for extreme political groups to get too much power, more rational distribution of resources, etc.

However, there's still a very parroquial outlook on life in many countries and it will be very long before this integration can be achieved.
But remember, we hate our level of association with them anyways. Me mostly like to either bitch about them or pretend they don't exist. I think we'd be pretty cool chillin' with Cuba and Mexico, but I love double standards.:fluffle:

I oppose it. On the grounds that any country + USA = a Bigger USA.
What if the country is China? They'd out-vote you 3 to 1!

I think that North American Economic Unity is an eventuality. Political is a tougher question. I'd be for it if there was a new constitutional convention, which proposed a federal government that was highly decentralized.

It's difficult to imagine any of the three countries willing to give up that kind of control.
I could just imagine Quebec trying to grab the NAU by the balls.

What if the country is China? They'd out-vote you 3 to 1!
They wouldn't get to vote. :p

I think are Queen would be more than happy to have 2 more nations under her control especially to give uncle Sam payback by putting that tax back on tea

Unfortunately the way I see it becoming is a class system going poor to the south to extremely rich as you go up no real change but imagine what the flag would be and imagine having 3 national languages!:eek:

I'd only support this if the USA accepted Canada's government and affiliated documents and discarded their government and their respective documents. A Canadian-run USA where the 'Constitution' is not open to amendment? Eeh, I can live with it.

If the US 'annexed' Canada, or took us over, I'm pretty sure that a large percentage of the population would turn to guerilla warfare. I know I would.

What if the country is China? They'd out-vote you 3 to 1!

China + USA = Super-big USA with minor Chinese embellishments. Not like anyone will let that happen, what with Lenovo and all.

But remember, we hate our level of association with them anyways. Me mostly like to either bitch about them or pretend they don't exist. I think we'd be pretty cool chillin' with Cuba and Mexico, but I love double standards.:fluffle:
Actually what we like is the bitching. Canadians bitch about the USA, Mexico bitches about the USA, the USA doesn't give a shit (they say so any chance they get, even after asking for an opinion), and we still get along with each other, trade goods, share common policies, solve common problems.

With integration it'd be the same thing, we'd still be bitching about our neighbors but the rest would be done more efficiently. After all, Alberta still bitches about Ontario and Ontario bitches about Quebec and Newfoundland bitches about being ignored.

I'd only support this if the USA accepted Canada's government and affiliated documents and discarded their government and their respective documents. A Canadian-run USA where the 'Constitution' is not open to amendment? Eeh, I can live with it.

If the US 'annexed' Canada, or took us over, I'm pretty sure that a large percentage of the population would turn to guerilla warfare. I know I would.

Or you could wait until Winter. Then the "Battle of the Long Weekend" would be over and the US army would retreat.

It is important to note that USian winters rarely go below zero degrees whereas Canadian winters go -30 degrees and last for ten months.

I could just imagine Quebec trying to grab the NAU by the balls.

If you left them to make up their own language/cultural decisions (within reason...) it should work fine. It just gets tricky when you're talking about redistribution of wealth.

I would imagine that a new, decentralized system would have minimal redistribution between provinces/states and rely more on unrestricted trade. (Another reason why canadians would oppose it?)

Or you could wait until Winter. Then the "Battle of the Long Weekend" would be over and the US army would retreat.

It is important to note that USian winters rarely go below zero degrees whereas Canadian winters go -30 degrees and last for ten months.

That is the epitome of the climate of my hometown, near a hydro dam that powers a good deal of California and the rest of the west coast of the USA. *grins evilly*

Actually what we like is the bitching. Canadians bitch about the USA, Mexico bitches about the USA, the USA doesn't give a shit (they say so any chance they get, even after asking for an opinion), and we still get along with each other, trade goods, share common policies, solve common problems.

With integration it'd be the same thing, we'd still be bitching about our neighbors but the rest would be done more efficiently. After all, Alberta still bitches about Ontario and Ontario bitches about Quebec and Newfoundland bitches about being ignored.
All the provinces bitch about being ignored, even Toronto.

But do we want to share common policies with the US?

If you left them to make up their own language/cultural decisions (within reason...) it should work fine. It just gets tricky when you're talking about redistribution of wealth.

I would imagine that a new, decentralized system would have minimal redistribution between provinces/states and rely more on unrestricted trade. (Another reason why canadians would oppose it?)
Free Trade is for Americans and the Reds!

That is the epitome of the climate of my hometown, near a hydro dam that powers a good deal of California and the rest of the west coast of the USA. *grins evilly*

California is like its own country man. If there is any annexing going in on you would want the Govinator on your side.

Or you could wait until Winter. Then the "Battle of the Long Weekend" would be over and the US army would retreat.

It is important to note that USian winters rarely go below zero degrees whereas Canadian winters go -30 degrees and last for ten months.

I wouldn't count on it, considering that would backfire on the Canadians and the US would have even more of an advantage than they had before because they could utilize their superior equipment in the winter conditions.

Free Trade is for Americans and the Reds!

:) If we were all the same country, there wouldn't be a need for protectionism... we couldn't say that foreigners are 'steain' ar' jobs!'

I wouldn't count on it, considering that would backfire on the Canadians and the US would have even more of an advantage than they had before because they could utilize their superior equipment in the winter conditions.

Have ever experienced a Canadian winter? For yourself?

And have you ever been to Sasketchewan? After a weekend war, the USian troops would be so drunk and bored, they'd be antsy to go home.

*A nod to John Wing*

I wouldn't count on it, considering that would backfire on the Canadians and the US would have even more of an advantage than they had before because they could utilize their superior equipment in the winter conditions.
The US's most devastating weapons would be useless against our igloo bunkers.

Sevenglasses']Assuming there was a movement to unite Canada, the USA and Mexico into one federal state, would you be for it or against it? And if you're for it, how? An additional federal level above the three nations, or Canadian and Mexican states becoming states of the USA, or should there be a whole new constitutional convention?

Against it.

The trend in "governmental inclusion" (if you will) is toward more
communication and trade between SMALLER units of governed population, as
oppsed to consolidating smaller populations into larger governed units.

The "unification" movement you propose is rather like saying, "Assuming there
was a movement to unite Chimpanzees, Gorillas and Spider Monkeys into a
single species, would you be FOR that, and if so, how should we accomplish
it?"


-Clamato, "..what a FREAKY idea..!"

It is important to note that USian winters rarely go below zero degrees whereas Canadian winters go -30 degrees and last for ten months.

Yeah, winter here only gets to -20 and lasts only 5-6 months.

True, Floridians and Texans would have trouble coping with Canadian winters, but Michiganders and Minnesotans wouldn't :p

Yeah, winter here only gets to -20 and lasts only 5-6 months.

True, Floridians and Texans would have trouble coping with Canadian winters, but Michiganders and Minnesotans wouldn't :p
But can Minnesotans and Michiganders survive Vancouver rain?

But can Minnesotans and Michiganders survive Vancouver rain?

We'll let the Washingtonians handle that :p

Or Hawaiians, as I hear it rains a lot there. Of course we'd have to attack in the summer or they'd all freeze to death when it got below 70.

We'll let the Washingtonians handle that :p

Or Hawaiians, as I hear it rains a lot there. Of course we'd have to attack in the summer or they'd all freeze to death when it got below 70.
We'd be smart enought to give all the Washingtonners bad directions so they end up in Prince George.

We'd be smart enought to give all the Washingtonners bad directions so they end up in Prince George.

Isn't that what you do anyway?

But can Minnesotans and Michiganders survive Vancouver rain?

It rains so often in Vancouver that...

...when people see the sun they ask "what's that?"

...postcards have to be taken in IR and then "converted" to real colors.

...prams come with fenders.

...clothes get wet so often people just lie naked on the beach.

...the metro service uses ferries for part of its route.

The trend in "governmental inclusion" (if you will) is toward more communication and trade between SMALLER units of governed population, as oppsed to consolidating smaller populations into larger governed units.
But more of those smaller units, which means some way to coordinate it all so everyone at least works within a common framework. That's pretty much what integration would mean, establishing a common framework to carry business between the states/provinces, one that people all over will agree on. They'll continue to be organized in smaller units but with a common base.

The "unification" movement you propose is rather like saying, "Assuming there
was a movement to unite Chimpanzees, Gorillas and Spider Monkeys into a
single species, would you be FOR that, and if so, how should we accomplish
it?"
Not at all. Differences between the three countries are not really that deep. They may seem striking, but it's more like comparing the same model of car from different years, and a different paint job. Plus, it's not about getting people to conform to the same standards or become the same as everyone else.