NationStates Jolt Archive

women i have met always say they want a knight in shining armour...

You know the guy who looks good, treats them right, gets on with their parents, is good in bed...blah blah blah.

I have never yet met a women who, when they find such a person...and they do exsist actually wants to go out with them.

WHY?

I think perosnally women like a guy who treats them badly cause then the slightest sign of compasion is like the holy grail of all love...when five seconds later their getting the crap beaten out of the again.:headbang:

...over to you

Knight in shining armour.

knight in shining armour....what?


....oh get it only realised after i posted it...ta

Oh well, nevermind.

Also you have used the gun smilie, which is frowned upon. Please do not use the sniper, mp5, gundge or upyours smilies. They only make you look silly. Also use the other smilies only sparingly. Thank you.
-Your Friendly Neighbourhood Smilie Police

Your spelling is terrible.

yes it is...and to have to have you know...i am an english language student.

yes it is...and to have to have you know...i am an english language student.
LOL you'll leatrn:)

yes it is...and to have to have you know...i am an english language student.
You lose at grammar too, 'to have to have'?

i would like to point out that i used the mp5 smiley for the ironic value of incouraging other participants to shoot themselves...metaphorically of course.

That is beside the topic.

i would like to point out that i used the mp5 smiley for the ironic value of incouraging other participants to shoot themselves...metaphorically of course.

That is beside the topic.
Oh don't mind me, I just wanted to add something in case I wasn't the first to point out the silent k.*twiddles thumbs*

Knights were elite fighters, and if they could afford a shining armour they were rich...

I'd go with a bAttle axe.

and yes my grammar is atrocious but if you want to argue thats fine. Besides it is scientifically proven that as long as the main body of text matches that of the intended word most people don't notice the difference. And from an english perspective, criticising spelling and grammar is in itself incorrect as due to the vastly increasing regional and saocially developing language structure of the english language there is no longer the strickest format for the words to be criticised. I got an A on my exam.

and i appreciate that i probably spelt some of this incorectly but i detest proof reading.

Sevenglasses']Knights were elite fighters, and if they could afford a shining armour they were rich...
That or the got luck in the last battle and stole some rich guys armour and gave it a bit of a polish.

sorry...got stressed there...knights actually had very little money, most of the property they owned actually was the property of the peasants in their lands...but due to the right of ownership...they could claim the rights to any of the property owned by their subjects.

and yes my grammar is atrocious but if you want to argue thats fine. Besides it is scientifically proven that as long as the main body of text matches that of the intended word most people don't notice the difference. And from an english perspective, criticising spelling and grammar is in itself incorrect as due to the vastly increasing regional and saocially developing language structure of the english language there is no longer the strickest format for the words to be criticised. I got an A on my exam.

and i appreciate that i probably spelt some of this incorectly but i detest proof reading.
Poor spelling doesn't necessarily matter, but poor grammer can completely change the meaning of a sentence.

You lose at grammar too, 'to have to have'?
Don't scare him away.

women i have met always say they want a knight in shining armour...

You know the guy who looks good, treats them right, gets on with their parents, is good in bed...blah blah blah.

I have never yet met a women who, when they find such a person...and they do exsist actually wants to go out with them.

WHY?

I think perosnally women like a guy who treats them badly cause then the slightest sign of compasion is like the holy grail of all love...when five seconds later their getting the crap beaten out of the again.:headbang:

...over to you

Maybe women don't like wimpy bootlickin' yes-men. They like strong men. These guys have more self-confidence. The badder the better.

true.

Sorry if i was a bit of an idiot.

I do detest proof reading and despite the fact that my mother is an english teacher i have attempted to avoid the subject as much as i can...i only chose it for a-levels cause it was one of the only subjects which i am any good at.

Anyway...does anyone actually have an opinion on the subject i have addressed or is this thread going to be solely for the purpose of pointing out my inabillity to type. ???????

Chivalry is neigh on dead.

but you see...most of my friends can't stand bad men...hell one of my close friends went out with someone who in all fairness could be obliterated by sneezing to hard.

I pride my self on trying to be ....(i'm going to spell it wrong, just thought i'd warn you)...chiv...chiv...a gentleman. My lady friends all say that i am a gentleman, though in fairness it is probably only due to the fact that i was raised in a house full of women. mum and three sisters.

Chivalry is neigh on dead.
Well, the Middle Ages ended over 500 years ago...

women i have met always say they want a knight in shining armour...

Then you are choosing to hang around with stupid little girls. The vast majority of females are capable of telling the difference between reality and fairy tales.


You know the guy who looks good, treats them right, gets on with their parents, is good in bed...blah blah blah.

Gosh, a man who is attractive, respectful, and a pleasing lover? Man, you're right, what kind of bitch would want that! Women should settle for ugly, rude, sexually selfish men, and be damn thankful to get them!


I have never yet met a women who, when they find such a person...and they do exsist actually wants to go out with them.

WHY?

Because you are choosing to associate with women who are either extremely stupid or mentally ill. And, as the saying goes, you are who you hang with. The fact that you choose to associate with this type of woman says a great deal about your own character.


I think perosnally women like a guy who treats them badly cause then the slightest sign of compasion is like the holy grail of all love...when five seconds later their getting the crap beaten out of the again.:headbang:

*eye roll*

Yes, we've all heard this one before. Women like being treated badly, so I guess men should just treat women badly! Isn't it funny how that works out?

Women are too stupid to know what's good for them, so we clearly shouldn't pay any attention to what they say they want! Isn't it funny how that works out?

Women reject ME, which means there must be something wrong with THEM! Isn't it funny how that works out?

I don't personally approve of the choices that women make in their own private love lives, and this means that they are clearly making bad choices! It couldn't possibly be the case that they know something about those men that I do not, or that they are making choices based on what they really want...no, they are obviously just crazy wenches who like being hurt! I guess I have all the justification I need to go out and treat women like shit!

Isn't it funny how that works out?

Maybe women don't like wimpy bootlickin' yes-men. They like strong men. These guys have more self-confidence. The badder the better.
Are you suggesting that a man who "looks good, treats them right, gets on with their parents, is good in bed" must be a "wimpy bootlickin' yes-man?"

Dude, nice guys don't always finish last, but if you keep whining about it, you WILL be last across the line.

It took me forever to realize that if I thought being a rather large teddy bear was going to impress a lady into making the first move, I would be waiting for a very long time. Now, if I ask... wow, she actually said yes and is rather fond of her large teddy bear (great for sleeping on says my fiancee).

I speak from experiance as I am so Boy Scoutish I put Superman to shame.

I still hold doors open for women though.

women i have met always say they want a knight in shining armour...

You know the guy who looks good, treats them right, gets on with their parents, is good in bed...blah blah blah.

I have never yet met a women who, when they find such a person...and they do exist actually wants to go out with them.
I know few women who say no to hot guys who are good in bed. They are attracted to aggressive guys for the same reason that many men are attracted to big breasts and asses. Just that society is less permissive of female lust, so they feel forced to sugarcoat their stated preferences when asked.

Gosh, a man who is attractive, respectful, and a pleasing lover? Man, you're right, what kind of bitch would want that! Women should settle for ugly, rude, sexually selfish men, and be damn thankful to get them!
*Falls on the floor from laughing so damn hard*

That should go in a list of the best of NS General sayings, Bottle.

Then you are choosing to hang around with stupid little girls. The vast majority of females are capable of telling the difference between reality and fairy tales.


Gosh, a man who is attractive, respectful, and a pleasing lover? Man, you're right, what kind of bitch would want that! Women should settle for ugly, rude, sexually selfish men, and be damn thankful to get them!


Because you are choosing to associate with women who are either extremely stupid or mentally ill. And, as the saying goes, you are who you hang with. The fact that you choose to associate with this type of woman says a great deal about your own character.


*eye roll*

Yes, we've all heard this one before. Women like being treated badly, so I guess men should just treat women badly! Isn't it funny how that works out?

Women are too stupid to know what's good for them, so we clearly shouldn't pay any attention to what they say they want! Isn't it funny how that works out?

Women reject ME, which means there must be something wrong with THEM! Isn't it funny how that works out?

I don't personally approve of the choices that women make in their own private love lives, and this means that they are clearly making bad choices! It couldn't possibly be the case that they know something about those men that I do not, or that they are making choices based on what they really want...no, they are obviously just crazy wenches who like being hurt! I guess I have all the justification I need to go out and treat women like shit!

Isn't it funny how that works out?

It doesn't work that way, no ma'am. It is other people who treat women like shit who get the chicks. Just like the lottery. Someone always wins it, but not me. :D

I still hold doors open for women though.
I hold doors open for anyone. Unless I don't like them. Then I'll hold it open until they come close, then let it shut in their face.

I hold doors open for anyone. Unless I don't like them. Then I'll hold it open until they come close, then let it shut in their face.
Mind you i have no problem using my body as a battering ram if there is a crowd in the way of my objective.

Dude, nice guys don't always finish last, but if you keep whining about it, you WILL be last across the line.

The kind of guy who posts this kind of rant about women is NOT a "nice guy." The kind of man who chooses to pursue vapid, stupid women, and then rants about how ALL WOMEN must be stupid and vapid, is not a nice guy.


It took me forever to realize that if I thought being a rather large teddy bear was going to impress a lady into making the first move, I would be waiting for a very long time. Now, if I ask... wow, she actually said yes and is rather fond of her large teddy bear (great for sleeping on says my fiancee).

Sometimes you can impress a woman into making the first move, sometimes you cannot. Some women like "teddy-bear" types, some do not. Some women like aggressive men, some do not.

Why is this so difficult to understand? Women aren't some homogenous group that all like the same thing. They are individuals, with different likes and dislikes, and there is no set of magical rules that will work on all women.

The best thing for you to do is to TALK WITH THE WOMAN IN QUESTION. If you like a gal, get to know her as an individual. Find out what kind of person she is. Relate to HER, instead of trying to force her behavior to fit your preconception of what "women" want.

I hold doors open for anyone. Unless I don't like them. Then I'll hold it open until they come close, then let it shut in their face.
Automatic doors take all the fun out of that. :(

I don't appreciate people...hiding behind their computer screens questioning my character or that of my friends...people make bad mistakes....yeah....that doesn't mean that they are bad people or that you can look down your nose at them.

I don't appreciate people...hiding behind their computer screens questioning my character or that of my friends...people make bad mistakes....yeah....that doesn't mean that they are bad people or that you can look down your nose at them.
Cos that's so much worse than hiding behind a computer screen and making vast generalisations about all women and what they all really want.

I still hold doors open for women though.
Why do some guys say this as though it is a selling point?

Where I come from, you hold doors for everybody. This is Politeness 101. Bragging about how you hold doors for women is considered about the same as bragging that you wash your hands after you pee...you're SUPPOSED to do that, and you don't get a cookie for it.

I hold doors for anybody who happens to be coming through the door right behind me. It's simple courtesy. I don't understand why some people think holding a door open is something remarkable or worth mentioning.

It doesn't work that way, no ma'am. It is other people who treat women like shit who get the chicks. Just like the lottery. Someone always wins it, but not me. :D
If you think that attracting a female is like playing the lottery, then that's your problem right there. ;)

Well, the Middle Ages ended over 500 years ago...
I am the Highlander!

one i said the people i have met...

two the purpose of this is to get other peoples perspectives

three if you like a nice guy bad guy...a girl or even a sodding elephant i don't judge you for it...its your decision i think the problem with people in general is that they have a hard time expressing what they want...thats why they ask for something they don't have the courage to pursue...

I don't appreciate people...hiding behind their computer screens questioning my character or that of my friends...people make bad mistakes....yeah....that doesn't mean that they are bad people or that you can look down your nose at them.
You asked a question, I answered. I don't know you, nor do I really care about your character, but I gave you a fair answer to the question you posed. I answered based on the information you gave.

If you choose to hang around with vapid women who seek out abusive relationships, then that's a problem with YOU that you need to examine. Why are you drawn to abuse victims? Why are you interested in pursuing relationships with the kind of women who seek out abusive lovers?

And why are you so contemptuous of women who actually want an attractive, respectful, caring lover? Why do you hold such a low opinion of yourself, and men? You act as though only a fairytale knight in shining armor could be decent and attractive, as though all "real" men are cruel, ugly, assholes. What makes you hate yourself, and other men, so much?

These are questions you need to address BEFORE you try to enter into a relationship. If you want to be able to love and cherish somebody, you owe it to them (and to yourself!) to work out your personal problems as much as possible.

The kind of guy who posts this kind of rant about women is NOT a "nice guy." The kind of man who chooses to pursue vapid, stupid women, and then rants about how ALL WOMEN must be stupid and vapid, is not a nice guy.
Maybe, maybe not. I can understand the frustration though and as he's a newbie, I'll give the benifit of the doubt and assume this is blowing off steam.

Now 500 posts about how evil women are later and I'll change my mind. ;)

Sometimes you can impress a woman into making the first move, sometimes you cannot. Some women like "teddy-bear" types, some do not. Some women like aggressive men, some do not.

Why is this so difficult to understand? Women aren't some homogenous group that all like the same thing. They are individuals, with different likes and dislikes, and there is no set of magical rules that will work on all women.

The best thing for you to do is to TALK WITH THE WOMAN IN QUESTION. If you like a gal, get to know her as an individual. Find out what kind of person she is. Relate to HER, instead of trying to force her behavior to fit your preconception of what "women" want.
This is true, but I have yet to hear (except in stories) about how being a perfect gentleman and never doing anything beyond that to show any interest in the lady in question will start a relationship. However, having BEEN in that situation, I know the dream of believing that being so nice and wonderful will get the attention of a lady and it'll end up like a shoujo manga. It makes it easy and takes all the work and uncertanty out of it.

Just like I have met ladies who rant that there's no nice guys (or we're all taken or are gay) out there without bothering to look. They seem to think that us nice guys come out of no where and sweep them off their feet for no reason.

Hmm... I wonder if there's a particular reason why both sexes engage in this?

Why do some guys say this as though it is a selling point?

Where I come from, you hold doors for everybody. This is Politeness 101. Bragging about how you hold doors for women is considered about the same as bragging that you wash your hands after you pee...you're SUPPOSED to do that, and you don't get a cookie for it.

I hold doors for anybody who happens to be coming through the door right behind me. It's simple courtesy. I don't understand why some people think holding a door open is something remarkable or worth mentioning.
Sorry Bottle what can i say, i simply have nothing else to offer you.

Why do some guys say this as though it is a selling point?

Where I come from, you hold doors for everybody. This is Politeness 101. Bragging about how you hold doors for women is considered about the same as bragging that you wash your hands after you pee...you're SUPPOSED to do that, and you don't get a cookie for it.

I hold doors for anybody who happens to be coming through the door right behind me. It's simple courtesy. I don't understand why some people think holding a door open is something remarkable or worth mentioning.

I agree
people don't deserve praise for doing the things their supposed to.

? Shoulkd it be pointed out if they don't? I'm not being rude or anything i was just curious about what people thought.

If you think that attracting a female is like playing the lottery, then that's your problem right there. ;)

I'll have you know that I have no problem at all attracting beautiful, intelligent, compassionate and all-round awesome women. Such as yourself.

Having said that I must admit I have never won any lottery.

Why do some guys say this as though it is a selling point?

Where I come from, you hold doors for everybody. This is Politeness 101. Bragging about how you hold doors for women is considered about the same as bragging that you wash your hands after you pee...you're SUPPOSED to do that, and you don't get a cookie for it.

I hold doors for anybody who happens to be coming through the door right behind me. It's simple courtesy. I don't understand why some people think holding a door open is something remarkable or worth mentioning.
It causes double takes in Japan, but that's because guys never hold the door open for women in Japan, it's the other way around actually.

I am the Highlander!
*Can't... resist... listening to Queen right now so...*
THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!

Why are you interested in pursuing relationships with the kind of women who seek out abusive lovers?

Most of my friends have been my friends for years...long before an interest in relationships developed...also just because someone chooses to have relationships with people who are abusive, doesn't mean that you should desert them or ignore them...that is what a pathetic childish person does.

If actually call them a friend you stick it out with them...look after them and...god forbid...care about them.

*Can't... resist... listening to Queen right now so...*
THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!
WHO WANTS TO LIVE FOREVER!

one i said the people i have met...

So you've only met stupid people. Try getting out more.


two the purpose of this is to get other peoples perspectives

And now that you've got those perspectives, you're whining about them.


three if you like a nice guy bad guy...a girl or even a sodding elephant i don't judge you for it...its your decision i think the problem with people in general is that they have a hard time expressing what they want...thats why they ask for something they don't have the courage to pursue...
Now THAT may actually be bordering on insightful.

It's true, girls and guys often have trouble expressing what they really want. It doesn't help that we are all told what we are SUPPOSED to want, and that we often find that we don't really want the things we are supposed to want.

Girls are told we are supposed to want the shining knight, but many of us prefer the court jester. Men are told they are supposed to want the fairy princess, but many find that they would rather go after the hot blacksmith chick (fire, sweat, lots of tools...oooh baby!).

The whole problem is that people think that ALL MEN or ALL WOMEN are supposed to want the same thing. This is profoundly stupid.

Women do not want the same thing. If you ever find yourself speaking generically about "all women" or "what women want," be aware that there is a 99.9999% chance you are making an utter ass of yourself. By speaking about "all women," or trying to generalize "what women want," you are simply flaunting your utter lack experience with anything approaching an adult relationship.

(And this goes for women, too. Saying "All men are..." or "Men just want..." is the halmark of a bitter high school girl who can't figure out why the asshole she started dating is acting like an asshole. Grow some ovaries, you dingbat.)

one i said the people i have met...

two the purpose of this is to get other peoples perspectives

three if you like a nice guy bad guy...a girl or even a sodding elephant i don't judge you for it...its your decision i think the problem with people in general is that they have a hard time expressing what they want...thats why they ask for something they don't have the courage to pursue...

Maybe handsome/pretty people can get away with anything. Bearing in mind attractiveness is a subjective thing, of course.

You know what?
I blame MCDonalds and Hallmark for such high expectations.

Look, please understand... i don't hate women...i don't hate men...i don't hate anyone...

i only wanted to see what people thought anbout the subject...

I do not believe women are vapid...the best friends i have ever had are women...they in my opinion are more inciteful and generally more thoughtful than men.

Further more any disdain i have for men is from personal experience.

And as far as hating myself goes...i don't hate myself...i hate some of the things about me...but who doesn't...look...bottle...i can see that you know your stuff and that you obviously understand the subject well, but don't think i am generalising globally, this is only from personal experience.

P.s. Queen rocks.

Most of my friends have been my friends for years...long before an interest in relationships developed...also just because someone chooses to have relationships with people who are abusive, doesn't mean that you should desert them or ignore them...that is what a pathetic childish person does.

If actually call them a friend you stick it out with them...look after them and...god forbid...care about them.
Read more carefully, please.

I am talking about romantic relationships, not platonic friendships. Being friends with somebody who has relationship issues is fine...hell, if it wasn't, we'd all be watching the game alone on Friday night.

Part of being a good friend is being honest, however. If you see friends engaging in harmful or self-destructive behaviors, TALK TO THEM ABOUT IT.

If you see female friends getting into abusive relationships, don't just throw up your hands and conclude that it's because all women secretly want to get hurt. That is a bullshit cop-out, and is not the attitude of a real friend.

If you are really a friend to these girls, why does your post insult them, instead of yelling at the guys who are treating them like crap? Why do you rush to insult the victims of bad relationships, instead of attacking the perpetrators?

If you actually care about your female friends, show it. Ask them why they are choosing relationships where they are abused or treated badly. Help them figure out why they are seeking out guys that do not respect them.

Grow some ovaries, you dingbat.

Tsk tsk.

I've never asked any guy to grow more dick. And not because they can never beat me, no, it's about honor and respect. :D

you obviously misunderstand me...

i dont insult them...

i do talk to them...

and i do care about them.

i cant seem to express that to you so fair enough...you beat me...i'll concied.

Knights in armour do exist; many of them. The calm, controlled and thoughtful warrior personality still holds strong in some aspects of society. The problem is that the shine has been taken from them by the ruthless self-serving society we live in. The modern world is hostile to chivalry, and no longer can being nice result in success.

The ideal is no longer practical. The honourable Knight is passed over for the gullible lackey who's willing to stab people in the back for the master/mistress's benefit.

Well there aint no shining but the Armoured Foramtions of the world are our Knights.

Why do some guys say this as though it is a selling point?

Where I come from, you hold doors for everybody. This is Politeness 101. Bragging about how you hold doors for women is considered about the same as bragging that you wash your hands after you pee...you're SUPPOSED to do that, and you don't get a cookie for it.

I hold doors for anybody who happens to be coming through the door right behind me. It's simple courtesy. I don't understand why some people think holding a door open is something remarkable or worth mentioning.
It's not remarkable, but its absence is. Holding doors open might not be a selling point, but letting doors slam on your face is a major malus.

Knights in armour do exist; many of them. The calm, controlled and thoughtful warrior personality still holds strong in some aspects of society. The problem is that the shine has been taken from them by the ruthless self-serving society we live in. The modern world is hostile to chivalry, and no longer can being nice result in success.

The ideal is no longer practical. The honourable Knight is passed over for the gullible lackey who's willing to stab people in the back for the master/mistress's benefit.

...who are the NINJAS ! Woo hoo!

The modern world is hostile to chivalry, and no longer can being nice result in success.
Don't make the mistake of equating chivalry with niceness or respect. Chivalry was a code of behavior that did not apply to most people in the world, and "chivalrous" men were not expected to show courtesy or respect to the majority of human beings. Chivalry applied to the wealthy, but not to the underclasses. The "knights in shining armor" treated poor women and men like crap.

I think for some women its the thrill of the chase, the iconic figure you'll never get. Personally a knight in shinning armour doesnt really work for me!

The abuse thing, I've found, is very common. Some women just like a man whos more 'powerful' than them. Of course that sort of person tends to abuse it (in my experience) which is where the problems come.

...who are the NINJAS ! Woo hoo!
*Nod*

Everybody loves ninjas. And pirates.

Don't make the mistake of equating chivalry with niceness or respect. Chivalry was a code of behavior that did not apply to most people in the world, and "chivalrous" men were not expected to show courtesy or respect to the majority of human beings. Chivalry applied to the wealthy, but not to the underclasses. The "knights in shining armor" treated poor women and men like crap.
Got me on that. I entirely agree that nobility is not to be perceived as a plus point.

On this, though, I'm going with the illusion. When they think of a knight in shining armour, fantasists think of the strong, silent type - kind of like a tall, dark stranger with a sense of honour and common courtesy about them. As such, Chivalristic behaviour, rather like the Gentleman notion of Victorian times, has colloquially taken on this meaning.

That behaviour exists, but it's not what is generally recognised as the top of the social heirarchy. Society likes those with ambition and those who will not succumb to doubt or uncertainty. It is the ones who set a goal and do whatever it takes to reach it that are most revered. Thus, the knight in shining armour isn't the prime catch - it is, as has already been noted, the pirates, the bounty-hunters and the ninja that take that role.

Fenriar, by and large, women like men who have a sense of confidence about them. Abuse is not the attractive trait. It's just that those kind of guys do have a certain confidence about them. But you do not have to be violent to be confident. Decent guys are confident about themselves too. That's why most of them find partners.

If you wander up to a lass looking like the sky is about to fall on your head then she is unlikely to be impressed. If you go with the attitude of "what's the worst that can happen ... she tells me to go away... oh well" , talk to her, make her laugh and show her you are a decent guy then you might get somewhere. But, as Bottle has been saying, vociferously, there is no magic formula and women are not carbon copies of each other. In that case, see above:-
"what's the worst that can happen ... she tells me to go away... oh well"

Fenriar, by and large, women like men who have a sense of confidence about them. Abuse is not the attractive trait. It's just that those kind of guys do have a certain confidence about them. But you do not have to be violent to be confident. Decent guys are confident about themselves too. That's why most of them find partners.

If you wander up to a lass looking like the sky is about to fall on your head then she is unlikely to be impressed. If you go with the attitude of "what's the worst that can happen ... she tells me to go away... oh well" , talk to her, make her laugh and show her you are a decent guy then you might get somewhere. But, as Bottle has been saying, vociferously, there is no magic formula and women are not carbon copies of each other. In that case, see above:-
"what's the worst that can happen ... she tells me to go away... oh well"

And go away I did. Often. :D

women i have met always say they want a knight in shining armour...

You know the guy who looks good, treats them right, gets on with their parents, is good in bed...blah blah blah.

I have never yet met a women who, when they find such a person...and they do exsist actually wants to go out with them.

WHY?

Let's look at the list:
1. "Looks Good"
This is subjective. Just because you think a guy is handsome doesn't mean that women will. Or that they'll find him the right kind of handsome.

2. "Treats them right."
This is a tricky one. In general, Knights tend not to treat women right. Sure, they don't smack them around or anything, but they screw up in other ways. They usually worship the woman, putting her on a pedestal. And women can't respect a guy who is always kissing their ass. Furthermore, they tend to feel suspicious if the guy thinks that they're perfect. They don't think that they're perfect, so the guy comes off as ingenuine or stupid.
Basically, the right way to treat a woman is to treat them like a human being. Chivalry is lousy at that.

2. "gets on with their parents"
I have NEVER heard that described as a White Knight trait.

3. "Good in Bed"
If a woman doesn't sleep with a guy, how will she know if he's really good? Because he tells her so? Almost all guys do.
If she's slept with him, and he actually IS really good in bed, then there's obviously something else wrong. Women do tend to like guys who are good in bed. But it's not the only thing to hinge a relationship on.

I think perosnally women like a guy who treats them badly cause then the slightest sign of compasion is like the holy grail of all love...when five seconds later their getting the crap beaten out of the again.:headbang:

...over to you

First of all, you're confusing "Girls" with "Women".
Women like a confident man.
Girls usually mistake "Arrogant asshole" for "confident man".
Women like a strong man.
Girls often mistake bravado or bullying for strength.
Women like men who understand them.
Girls often have low self-esteem, and therefore have trouble believing that somebody truly knows them unless they sometimes confirm the girl's insecurities.
Women like a man that they can depend on.
Girls often mistake manipulation for dependability.
Women like a man who can rescue them.
Girls like being rescued. So they will often seek out trouble, just for the joy of being bailed out.

Basically, quit chasing girls and find a real woman, one who is grown up enough to know what she wants and who doesn't play stupid little games.

I'd go with a bAttle axe.

I'd go with a longbow and impale you through the chest before getting within 50 yards of my position.

It's true, girls and guys often have trouble expressing what they really want. It doesn't help that we are all told what we are SUPPOSED to want, and that we often find that we don't really want the things we are supposed to want.

I think this is the crux of the problem here. Society tells us that each gender is after some particular archetype, when in fact things are far more complicated than that. The real problem is these ridiculous things we tell ourselves about what we're expected to want, and what the opposite gender is expected to want.

And you're very correct in that people often don't know what they want. A good female friend of mine has been going through a sort of dilemma lately. She IM'd me the other day, following her latest breakup. This guy was, as she put it, a "nice guy", but she said that whenever she dates a nice guy she ends up bored with him. But when she dates, again to use her words, an "asshole" she has "more fun", but "cries more than she laughs". I wish I knew what to tell her.

Anyway, most people seem to go through a phase where they're not after Mr./Ms. Right, but they're after Mr./Ms. Right Now. Younger people are generally just looking for someone they can have a good time with for a while, and then they'll move on. Eventually they'll likely settle down and look for someone who is suitable for that. Not everyone goes through these stages, but most people I know have at some point or another.

Oh God, not yet 'nother 'I can't get a girl cause I'm so nice and girls don't like nice guys, only assholes' thread.
News flash: Maybe they don't like you not cause you're a nice guy, but cause you have a huge chip on your shoulder about everyone else and are lacking a big wad of self-esteem.

Oh God, not yet 'nother 'I can't get a girl cause I'm so nice and girls don't like nice guys, only assholes' thread.
News flash: Maybe they don't like you not cause you're a nice guy, but cause you have a huge chip on your shoulder about everyone else and are lacking a big wad of self-esteem.

Oooh I didn't know self-esteem came in wads. Just like dough. :rolleyes:

The kind of guy who posts this kind of rant about women is NOT a "nice guy." The kind of man who chooses to pursue vapid, stupid women, and then rants about how ALL WOMEN must be stupid and vapid, is not a nice guy.

Agghh! Bottle is inside my head!!! Nooo!!! Aaagh!!

:p

I'm getting sick of repeating something to that effect every time one of these threads comes up. (about once a month, like clockwork)

I'd go with a longbow and impale you through the chest before getting within 50 yards of my position.
at such rage i'd be hoping for a through and through the fact you would rip out my inards and knock me off my feet, i would use the momentum to fall o you with the axe.
[/god mode]

I think that many people *looks mainly at guys* need to realise that lots of us say things like 'I would go out with you, but you are too nice' as an attempt to NOT say 'No, you are ugly and smell' ...'I would rather bite my leg off than go out with you'...'You are not attractive..to me or ANYBODY'

I think that this is why the women don't go out with me because I am too nice myth comes from....there is no such thing as being TOO NICE, not if you think about it...it is just one of those cure all excuses that you can use to put off someone that you like, but not in THAT way...or something like that.

*I would like to make it clear that this is my own opinion, formed entirely by me, with no pretence at being a representative opinion of all people who don't think the same as me...as clearly they are all stupid anyway*

I think for some women its the thrill of the chase, the iconic figure you'll never get. *snip*

What's the point if neither you nor he can win? :headbang:

I think this is the crux of the problem here. Society tells us that each gender is after some particular archetype, when in fact things are far more complicated than that. The real problem is these ridiculous things we tell ourselves about what we're expected to want, and what the opposite gender is expected to want.

And you're very correct in that people often don't know what they want. A good female friend of mine has been going through a sort of dilemma lately. She IM'd me the other day, following her latest breakup. This guy was, as she put it, a "nice guy", but she said that whenever she dates a nice guy she ends up bored with him. But when she dates, again to use her words, an "asshole" she has "more fun", but "cries more than she laughs". I wish I knew what to tell her.

Anyway, most people seem to go through a phase where they're not after Mr./Ms. Right, but they're after Mr./Ms. Right Now. Younger people are generally just looking for someone they can have a good time with for a while, and then they'll move on. Eventually they'll likely settle down and look for someone who is suitable for that. Not everyone goes through these stages, but most people I know have at some point or another.

ZOMG. Somebody who has no trouble grasping the idea that female human beings (and male human beings) may be more than just homogeneous groups defined entirely by their sex organs!!!!

Please, please stay. :)

Oh God, not yet 'nother 'I can't get a girl cause I'm so nice and girls don't like nice guys, only assholes' thread.
News flash: Maybe they don't like you not cause you're a nice guy, but cause you have a huge chip on your shoulder about everyone else and are lacking a big wad of self-esteem.
Yeah, I love these types:

"All women are stupid bitches who only date assholes because they don't know what they want! I know what is good for them, and they should just shut up and listen! DATE ME, I'M SO NICE!!!!"

I think that many people *looks mainly at guys* need to realise that lots of us say things like 'I would go out with you, but you are too nice' as an attempt to NOT say 'No, you are ugly and smell' ...'I would rather bite my leg off than go out with you'...'You are not attractive..to me or ANYBODY'

This is another very good point. Because of how our society is structured, men proposition women more often than women proposition men, and this means that women are more often in the position of having to turn down a guy who has approached them. A great many women don't like having to hurt men's feelings, and will try to find a gentle way to turn the guy down.

Instead of simply saying, "I don't find you physically attractive at all," she'll say, "I just don't see you that way; I see you as a really good friend." Instead of saying, "You have no social skills and are clearly not ready to be in a relationship," she'll say, "You're really sweet, but I just don't feel the chemistry."

Personally, I prefer to let guys know the real reason why I am turning them down. But I am routinely called a bitch, a dike, and a stupid ****, even when I explain things as politely as possible. So my way is not one that most women like to use.


I think that this is why the women don't go out with me because I am too nice myth comes from....there is no such thing as being TOO NICE, not if you think about it...it is just one of those cure all excuses that you can use to put off someone that you like, but not in THAT way...or something like that.

"Nice" seems to be equated with "spineless," which I think is pure crap. A passive-aggressive whiner is not "nice." A lazy bum who never expresses an original thought or opinion of his own is not "nice." It is perfectly possible to be an out-going, confident, assertive, and NICE guy.


*I would like to make it clear that this is my own opinion, formed entirely by me, with no pretence at being a representative opinion of all people who don't think the same as me...as clearly they are all stupid anyway*
I like you.

What's the point if neither you nor he can win? :headbang:
Who says you can't?

I like you.

Thank you...I like you too, I also think that you made a very good point. In fact several very good points.

You are right about NICE, it is one of those words that has come to be regarded as almost an insult, like damning with faint praise...oh he is too nice Whats that all about? He says nice things? makes you feel happy? remembers your birthday and is polite and has good table manners? what? I have a good man, a kind man, a NICE man, he is nice to me, nice to my children, nice to my family and friends. He likes people, is funny and kind, he is nice to be around and nice to wake up with, nice to sleep with and nice to be with...I however would probably NOT describe him to my friends as NICE, because it has become a way of saying a negative thing without making me look like too much of a bitch...Its like the word special....my children no longer think that special is something that they want to be, as to them it usually means that you have something wrong with you....as in we recently went to a party, where friends have fostered a boy with many different problems, my children on leaving the party said 'Max is a bit special isn't he?'
meaning that he behaved like a monster and went around hitting the other kids and soiled himself.....so when did NICE and SPECIAL stop being good things?

...so when did NICE and SPECIAL stop being good things?

I guess probably right around the time when women stopped liking "nice" guys. I mean, it stands to reason that if "nice" means "passive-aggressive unattractive loser who thinks all women are dumb bitches and can't be trusted to choose their own mates," then I can totally understand why no women like "nice guys"!

I guess probably right around the time when women stopped liking "nice" guys. I mean, it stands to reason that if "nice" means "passive-aggressive unattractive loser who thinks all women are dumb bitches and can't be trusted to choose their own mates," then I can totally understand why no women like "nice guys"!

So very true, you are wise and have mighty good opinions. I like that in a person, the best part is that I agree with you and therefore it means that my own opinions are correct, and thats always my favorite outcome.

I think we should share a coffee and some cake, and spread our wise counsel throughout the world of general and maybe even beyond...

What's the point if neither you nor he can win? :headbang:

A lot of people enjoy the thrill of the hunt. People very often want that which they can't have, and that transfers over to relationships as well. Haven't you wanted something very badly, only when you got it it wasn't as good as you thought it would be?

ZOMG. Somebody who has no trouble grasping the idea that female human beings (and male human beings) may be more than just homogeneous groups defined entirely by their sex organs!!!!

Please, please stay.

Well, I've spent enough time around women to figure out that they're just as diverse, if not more so, than men.

This is another very good point. Because of how our society is structured, men proposition women more often than women proposition men, and this means that women are more often in the position of having to turn down a guy who has approached them. A great many women don't like having to hurt men's feelings, and will try to find a gentle way to turn the guy down.

This is the problem that I think a lot of the young men here are having. A lot of guys who are "nice" by most people's definition are often quite shy as well. And while many women find shyness endearing it doesn't help in the initial "proposition" phase. Society tells us that men are supposed to approach the women, not vice verse. Women will often throw subtle hints our way, but subtlety isn't the strong point of most men.

These nice, but shy boys wait for the woman to approach them, but 99% of the time this will not happen, even if the young lady is interested in him, because they're conditioned to expect him to make the first move. After the years these guys get frustrated and imagine that it's because they're unattractive and becoming bitter and angry about the whole thing.

Anyway, the only thing to be done is if you like a girl, approach her. If she turns you down, don't take it too hard. There are other girls out there, and you can go ask them. Just remember when you're asking a girl out she's probably just as nervous and excited as you are.

Anyway, that's enough ranting for today.

These nice, but shy boys wait for the woman to approach them, but 99% of the time this will not happen, even if the young lady is interested in him, because they're conditioned to expect him to make the first move. After the years these guys get frustrated and imagine that it's because they're unattractive and becoming bitter and angry about the whole thing.

Anyway, the only thing to be done is if you like a girl, approach her. If she turns you down, don't take it too hard. There are other girls out there, and you can go ask them. Just remember when you're asking a girl out she's probably just as nervous and excited as you are.

You can become bitter and angry and not take it out on other people like a dickhead. I got sick of rejection. So meh.

What a lot of "nice guys" need to realise is that it's probably them that's the problem, and not the people they're asking out. Accept it and move onto something else.

I think the reason that most "nice" guys don't start that spark with a woman is because they don't create the emotion of attraction in a woman. There is nothing wrong with being a nice guy, by all means, but so many nice guys lack the aura of manliness. I'll use my girlfriend as an example (and this is true for more girls than not). I'm very nice to her in that I am mostly respectful. I get along great with her parents and family, and I can be like a big teddy bear for her, and I am curteous. I basically do all the things that "nice" guys do. However, I am also a fire fighter, and I have no problem throwing her over my shoulder and carrying her around. I am also very confident in myself, and usually am not afraid of soliciting a negative reaction, and she loves me for it.

Most nice guys become almost too womanly for their own good; they become passive-agressive and start to display subservient traits (such as purchasing a gift in order to buy attraction). Women are attracted to confident men, not to looks, though that certaintly does help. Basically, you can be as nice as you want, just be confident in doing it.

I think the reason that most "nice" guys don't start that spark with a woman is because they don't create the emotion of attraction in a woman. There is nothing wrong with being a nice guy, by all means, but so many nice guys lack the aura of manliness. I'll use my girlfriend as an example (and this is true for more girls than not). I'm very nice to her in that I am mostly respectful. I get along great with her parents and family, and I can be like a big teddy bear for her, and I am curteous. I basically do all the things that "nice" guys do. However, I am also a fire fighter, and I have no problem throwing her over my shoulder and carrying her around. I am also very confident in myself, and usually am not afraid of soliciting a negative reaction, and she loves me for it.

Most nice guys become almost too womanly for their own good; they become passive-agressive and start to display subservient traits (such as purchasing a gift in order to buy attraction). Women are attracted to confident men, not to looks, though that certaintly does help. Basically, you can be as nice as you want, just be confident in doing it.
You know somthing .I have laughed at the whole confidance thing untill I saw that being confidant in ones self is worth its weight in gold.Bollix trying to put forward a portrayal of someone you think women will like, just be confidant in who you are and for some reason :rolleyes: the kind of women you are attracted to will find you...

Chicks want the Alpha male.

That is all.

I think the reason that most "nice" guys don't start that spark with a woman is because they don't create the emotion of attraction in a woman. There is nothing wrong with being a nice guy, by all means, but so many nice guys lack the aura of manliness. I'll use my girlfriend as an example (and this is true for more girls than not). I'm very nice to her in that I am mostly respectful. I get along great with her parents and family, and I can be like a big teddy bear for her, and I am curteous. I basically do all the things that "nice" guys do. However, I am also a fire fighter, and I have no problem throwing her over my shoulder and carrying her around. I am also very confident in myself, and usually am not afraid of soliciting a negative reaction, and she loves me for it.

Most nice guys become almost too womanly for their own good; they become passive-agressive and start to display subservient traits (such as purchasing a gift in order to buy attraction). Women are attracted to confident men, not to looks, though that certaintly does help. Basically, you can be as nice as you want, just be confident in doing it.

That story is all nice and well and your theory may apply to your girlfriend or even all women you personally know, but it's ridiculous to then conclude that all women feel the same way.

Chicks want the Alpha male.

That is all.

Uh, no.

(hey, if you're not gonna bother even attempting to explain your viewpoint, why explain mine?)

A lot I could say on this subject and my basic response has already been said by various people, mainly by Bottle (thank you for saving me the time ranting!).

Men who are confident in themselves have the best success with women. When they lose that confidence after many months or years, their spouse/girlfriend/other may find them no longer interesting. These men who are confident, even if they are bald and overweight, can do tremendously well with women. It is instinct: women are generally attracted to "manly" men (and by manly, I don't mean arnold-esq, I mean they take the lead without taking shit) who can work their way around the woman's games and tests. Attraction is not a choice, it is emotional and physical. Lets not forget: the knight in shining armor isn't standing around all day holding doors open; he goes out with his sword and bashes people all day! Most nice guys get the first part down, but not the second.

Men who are confident in themselves have the best success with women. When they lose that confidence after many months or years, their spouse/girlfriend/other may find them no longer interesting. These men who are confident, even if they are bald and overweight, can do tremendously well with women. It is instinct: women are generally attracted to "manly" men (and by manly, I don't mean arnold-esq, I mean they take the lead without taking shit) who can work their way around the woman's games and tests. Attraction is not a choice, it is emotional and physical. Lets not forget: the knight in shining armor isn't standing around all day holding doors open; he goes out with his sword and bashes people all day! Most nice guys get the first part down, but not the second.

So wanton violence will get you laid?

That's certainly a new one.

Who said anything about wanton violence? My main point is that a guy can't just be, more or less, a nice servant, he has to have something that sets him apart in the woman's eyes. It is hard to do that if all you do is open doors and buy her dinner when any number of other guys is already doing/has done the same.

And hey, it works for soldiers.

Men who are confident in themselves have the best success with women. When they lose that confidence after many months or years, their spouse/girlfriend/other may find them no longer interesting. These men who are confident, even if they are bald and overweight, can do tremendously well with women. It is instinct: women are generally attracted to "manly" men (and by manly, I don't mean arnold-esq, I mean they take the lead without taking shit) who can work their way around the woman's games and tests. Attraction is not a choice, it is emotional and physical. Lets not forget: the knight in shining armor isn't standing around all day holding doors open; he goes out with his sword and bashes people all day! Most nice guys get the first part down, but not the second.
You can say anything you like but the simple fact is that stating that all women like characteristic a will always be false.

Right here, I don't fit your theory:
- Confidence has absolutly no role in my attraction to someone (except in the case of over-confidence which is really just arrogance) and I'm extremely happy in a relationship where my boyfriend isn't very confident.
- The stereotypical "manly" man is pretty much one of my worst nightmares.
- Any guy who thinks a relationship full of "games and tests" is at all healthy is not someone I want to be in a relationship with.
- A guy who "goes out with his sword and bashes people all day" has no appeal to me whatsoever. He just sounds like a jerk.

I know a fair amount of other people who would also not fit your theory. There is also the vast vast vast majority of the world who neither of us have experience with so we'll just have to accept the possibilty that they might just not fit your theory either.

Who said anything about wanton violence? My main point is that a guy can't just be, more or less, a nice servant, he has to have something that sets him apart in the woman's eyes. It is hard to do that if all you do is open doors and buy her dinner when any number of other guys is already doing/has done the same.

So, if you're a guy who is not confident, the only possible thing you can put into a relationship is opening doors and buying dinner?

- Confidence has absolutly no role in my attraction to someone (except in the case of over-confidence which is really just arrogance) and I'm extremely happy in a relationship where my boyfriend isn't very confident.

Would you describe him as servile? That being said, a sense of humor with confidence does wonders for guys when it comes to getting girls.


- The stereotypical "manly" man is pretty much one of my worst nightmares.

I don't think anyone wants to be around a sweaty lug of a man who doesn't shower. I said women want a more manly guy, not someone who fits the "stereo typical" description.


- Any guy who thinks a relationship full of "games and tests" is at all healthy is not someone I want to be in a relationship with.

By this I mean the "courtship" procedure before a relationship starts. Just about every girl in a western society puts a guy through some sort of test to see if he is worth the time and effort of a relationship.


- A guy who "goes out with his sword and bashes people all day" has no appeal to me whatsoever. He just sounds like a jerk.

Why not just hire a butler? My point is that a guy should do something a little more interesting than sit around and do nothing more than buy gifts/open doors.


So, if you're a guy who is not confident, the only possible thing you can put into a relationship is opening doors and buying dinner?
Or he could work on his confidence issues... thats always an option.

I'm pretty confident, but I dont swagger or brag. I think my confidence is inward and not so obvious.
I'm polite and nice when it suits me. There are some people that know me and will swear I'm the nicest guy and others may feel I'm a total bastard and others do what they can to avoid me.
My demeanor all depends on the situation, my surroundings and what I need.

It works fine for me.

I'm pretty confident, but I dont swagger or brag. I think my confidence is inward and not so obvious.
I'm polite and nice when it suits me. There are some people that know me and will swear I'm the nicest guy and others may feel I'm a total bastard and others do what they can to avoid me.
My demeanor all depends on the situation, my surroundings and what I need.

It works fine for me.

This guy's got it (some call it "inner game")

Would you describe him as servile?
No. Some could I guess, though any actions leading to that belief have nothing to do with a lack of confidence but with caring about me.

That being said, a sense of humor with confidence does wonders for guys when it comes to getting girls.
Personally, a sense of humour is vital for me.
You're missing my point though. There is no set thing to do that will get you a girl because there is no set that that all girls like. The idea that if you just do this, you'll be set in relationships is ridiculous. The idea that all women want a certain type of guy or certain characteristic is also ridiculous.

I don't think anyone wants to be around a sweaty lug of a man who doesn't shower.
Some seem to.

I said women want a more manly guy, not someone who fits the "stereo typical" description.
A "manly" guy doesn't really interest me. "Manly" in the frame of his body (taller than me and solid) but not in any other way that I can think of.

And what does "manliness" have to do with confidence? You could be "manly" but lack confidence, or be confident and lack "manliness".

By this I mean the "courtship" procedure before a relationship starts. Just about every girl in a western society puts a guy through some sort of test to see if he is worth the time and effort of a relationship.
I don't. I'm in western society. Any relationships or feelings for people have grown over time through getting to know them. No games or tests involved at all. Anyone who does use that kinda thing, or thinks it's acceptable or part of a healthy relationship, I don't want to be with.

Why not just hire a butler? My point is that a guy should do something a little more interesting than sit around and do nothing more than buy gifts/open doors.
What the hell has that got to do with confidence? You can be confident and "sit around and do nothing more than buy gifts/open doors". You can lack confidence and do a hell of a lot more than that.
Where has the idea that lack of confidence = laziness, lack of effort and (somehow, even though this seems like a contradiction) being a pushover or "servant" come from?

Or he could work on his confidence issues... thats always an option.
Working on confidence is always good. I have nothing against confidence. I'd always work on improving peoples' confidence for their own sake and no-one elses.
But it has nothing to do with my attraction to a guy and you're in no place to tell me what I and every other women in the world thinks and feels.

Not all women want or need a confident guy. Not all women are put off by a lack of confidence. It's not that hard to grasp. There is no universal characteristic that all women want.

I think that many people *looks mainly at guys* need to realise that lots of us say things like 'I would go out with you, but you are too nice' as an attempt to NOT say 'No, you are ugly and smell' ...'I would rather bite my leg off than go out with you'...'You are not attractive..to me or ANYBODY'

And frankly, that pisses me off (not at you, just in general. Lots of stuff does, don't take it personal). It gives people the wrong message. If you don't want to date somebody, then tell them why. Don't pull the old "I'm washing my hair on Friday" crap, just be straightforward and honest.

And frankly, that pisses me off (not at you, just in general. Lots of stuff does, don't take it personal). It gives people the wrong message. If you don't want to date somebody, then tell them why. Don't pull the old "I'm washing my hair on Friday" crap, just be straightforward and honest.
You forgot how it continued... the guys who heard the truth got angry and started telling all sorts of crap about her...

The bitteness in this thread makes me smile.

The bitteness in this thread makes me smile.

If not for bitterness in the world, there would only be milk chocolate. And Belgium would cease to exist.

Chicks want the Alpha male.

That is all.
We are not discussing the sexual behaviors of juvenille chickens. We are talking about male and female human beings, and the various courtship quirks of same.

Men who are confident in themselves have the best success with women. When they lose that confidence after many months or years, their spouse/girlfriend/other may find them no longer interesting. These men who are confident, even if they are bald and overweight, can do tremendously well with women. It is instinct: women are generally attracted to "manly" men (and by manly, I don't mean arnold-esq, I mean they take the lead without taking shit) who can work their way around the woman's games and tests. Attraction is not a choice, it is emotional and physical. Lets not forget: the knight in shining armor isn't standing around all day holding doors open; he goes out with his sword and bashes people all day! Most nice guys get the first part down, but not the second.
Um...barf. Aside from being an actual rapist or having a head that's shaped precisely like a penis, the most unattractive feature a man can possibly have is to be at all concerned with his "manliness." And any male who thinks bashing things with swords makes him more desirable really should wait until he graduates from middle school before he starts courting women.

We are not discussing the sexual behaviors of juvenille chickens. We are talking about male and female human beings, and the various courtship quirks of same.
Well, as long as we're discussing the myth of the knight in shining armor, we can also discuss the princess on the pedestal myth while we're at it.

Both seem to be unrealistic expectations taught to children in place of proper socialization. You know - the standard theme of most Disney classics such as Sleeping Beauty, Snow White, and Cinderella (which, are in turn rehashes of old European fairy tales).

Emphasis on "fairy tales".

I've found that enigmatic works out the best all round. Girls don't want to let you get past them cos they think there is something much deeper under that strange, amusing shell. I call it the "It's only goddamn praline" approach to attracting women, because largely it's the same old gooey stuff... but with an intriguing enough wrapper it could be THE ONE!

You know what I'm talking about. Somewhere out there is a honeycomb and caramel centred chocolate with my name on it.

...

I think I just got lost in my own metaphor.

By this I mean the "courtship" procedure before a relationship starts. Just about every girl in a western society puts a guy through some sort of test to see if he is worth the time and effort of a relationship.

Women and men both have to "check each other out" pretty thoroughly before they want to commit to a relationship. Both women and men size up a potential partner to see if it is worth the emotional risk of getting attached. This is quite distinct from "playing games."

"Games" are usually a bunch of society-contrived hoops that males and females feel obligated to jump through. This hoop jumping provides no useful information about the other party, because it assumes that all men and all women want/need the exact same things, and that all men and all women are incapable of simple honesty with one another.

Some girls like to pretend that the hoop-jumping is some clever routine they've got, as though being a passive-aggressive nitwit is some kind of accomplishment. If you choose to date that kind of idiot, you get what you deserve. Some guys like to play games just as much, and I have zero sympathy for any woman who dates a guy like that more than once without learning her lesson.

Some girls like to pretend that the hoop-jumping is some clever routine they've got, as though being a passive-aggressive nitwit is some kind of accomplishment. If you choose to date that kind of idiot, you get what you deserve. Some guys like to play games just as much, and I have zero sympathy for any woman who dates a guy like that more than once without learning her lesson.

Can I get an Amen?

women i have met always say they want a knight in shining armour...

You know the guy who looks good, treats them right, gets on with their parents, is good in bed...blah blah blah.

I have never yet met a women who, when they find such a person...and they do exsist actually wants to go out with them.

WHY?

I think perosnally women like a guy who treats them badly cause then the slightest sign of compasion is like the holy grail of all love...when five seconds later their getting the crap beaten out of the again.:headbang:

...over to you
Later in life, after three kids, numerous beatings, and a husband who drinks away everything he makes ( if he even HAS a job ), many of these women come to their senses. A bit late, but still not too late for a "knight in shinning armor" to come to their rescue.

"We grow too soon old, and too late smart." - German proverb

Well, as long as we're discussing the myth of the knight in shining armor, we can also discuss the princess on the pedestal myth while we're at it.

Both seem to be unrealistic expectations taught to children in place of proper socialization. You know - the standard theme of most Disney classics such as Sleeping Beauty, Snow White, and Cinderella (which, are in turn rehashes of old European fairy tales).

Emphasis on "fairy tales".
Putting women on a pedestal is just another way of objectifying them and making them into some homogenous Other. Putting a woman on a pedestal just means that you're making her into a particularly expensive trophy. I find it every bit as insulting as being categorically demeened.

People want what people want; trying to generalise exactly what they want is just silly.

Of course everyone wants that 'Knight in Shining Armor', but everyone also wants a thousand other things. Personally I'm just looking for someone I agree with at this point.

People want what people want; trying to generalise exactly what they want is just silly.

...Personally I'm just looking for someone I agree with at this point.
You have unknowingly proved your own point, since I personally am most attracted to people who don't agree with me :).

You have unknowingly proved your own point, since I personally am most attracted to people who don't agree with me :).

We'll agree to disagree then :)

We'll agree to disagree then :)
NEVER! I insist on disagreeing to agree!!!!

I'm pretty confident, but I dont swagger or brag. I think my confidence is inward and not so obvious.
I'm polite and nice when it suits me. There are some people that know me and will swear I'm the nicest guy and others may feel I'm a total bastard and others do what they can to avoid me.
My demeanor all depends on the situation, my surroundings and what I need.

It works fine for me.
You ... you ... manipulative bastid, you! Heh! :p

We are not discussing the sexual behaviors of juvenille chickens. We are talking about male and female human beings, and the various courtship quirks of same.
And there are often similarities between the two! :eek:

And there are often similarities between the two! :eek:
Blasphemer. It is a widely-believed fact that men and women are utterly different species who just happen to be able to reproduce together.

These nice, but shy boys wait for the woman to approach them, but 99% of the time this will not happen, even if the young lady is interested in him, because they're conditioned to expect him to make the first move. After the years these guys get frustrated and imagine that it's because they're unattractive and becoming bitter and angry about the whole thing.

amen to that.

You have unknowingly proved your own point, since I personally am most attracted to people who don't agree with me :).

Is that right? I thought that "opposites attract" was yet another lie. You can spend your entire life in constant argument?

Is that right? I thought that "opposites attract" was yet another lie. You can spend your entire life in constant argument?
It's not really so much about being opposites, for me. It's more that I tend to like contrary, argumentative people. I am also a contrary, argumentative person, so such people aren't really my "opposites" in terms of personality.

I also care about HOW the person argues with me. Somebody who just says "Nuh-uh, you're a dum-dum head!" is not going to be particularly interesting to me. People who cannot grasp basic logical concepts are not interesting to me.

But, as a general rule, anybody who is willing to argue with me is going to be more interesting to me than a person who is not willing to argue with me.

OK, please note that I am speaking entirely of my own volition and without any assistance, I am expressing my own opinions, which of course are the best and most accurate ones, so listen carefully, as I will say this only once...

Once upon a time long ago, I thought that I was not attractive and would struggle to get a boy who was interested in me. I was therefore somewhat surprised when I got asked on a date, and accepted. I thought that this guy was the best thing since sliced bread, he was in the army (uniforms phoar!) and we dated for about 3 years in total. During this time, I began to realise that I was quite attractive to other men, and so when a good looking guy who drove a nice car and talked the talk, came a-courting with roses and teddy bears and phone calls to say Hi! I was hooked, the soldiers appeal had lessened as the time he spent away increased and he also was a jerk once I got to know him better. So I was in a new romance with this excellent guy, who my Mum thought was great, but she didn't know that he was actually a fully fledged card carrying football thug, who travelled about to football matches especially to get into fights. I was oddly not totally put off when I found this out, but I was young and stupid. I eventually found out that he was also a drunk and a serial cheater. I then met a guy, he was tall, good looking and manly. I thought he wouldn't give me a second glance, but apparently he felt the same way about me and we ended up dating. If I could live my life again now, I would stay away from him, but what happened was I got pregnant. We split up, then got back together and eventually after our daughter was born, we married. We had two more children and lived in increasing misery until two years ago, when I decided that enough was enough and I finally found a decent man. I am now divorced from the massive asshole that I married and am living happily with a wonderful man who I love for who he is, and he loves me for who I am. I think that there is a special person for everyone, it just means that you have to find them, and it might take you five minutes or all your life to find them, but when you do you will know.

What this ramble is trying to say I think is that people are people, not types, not cardboard cut outs, they might have some things in common and not others, some might be thugs, some might be unassuming, some might be wife beaters, some might be sullen, some might seem to be one thing and actually be another when you get to know them...I am a mixture, I can be fiery and rowdy, I can be quiet and unassuming, I can be loud and a party animal, I can be emotional and flippant...I am who I am, and I think that my Canadian would tell you that there is nobody else quite like me, and that for him, I was worth moving half way across the world for. But to another guy, I might not be worth crossing the street for....I hope that if you haven't already, that you ALL find the person that makes you feel like you knew them all your life, that you are somehow meant to be together and that you live a long and happy life with each other.

DOH! I forgot to say what I started this for!!!:headbang: I consider my Canadian to be my Knight, as he came into my life and brought me happiness and love and respect and all the stuff that I had been missing out on....

*this post has been brought to you today by caffeine and lack of sleep*

Blasphemer. It is a widely-believed fact that men and women are utterly different species who just happen to be able to reproduce together.
LOL! There's some surface appearances which lend a degree of credence to that, but they are only surface appearances. :p

So now I'm a heretic??? :eek:

amen to that.
So ... Amy approached you first? Speaks well for her wisdom and sense of self, if you ask me ... well, even if you don't ask me! :p

LOL! There's some surface appearances which lend a degree of credence to that, but they are only surface appearances. :p

So now I'm a heretic??? :eek:

If you are confessing does that mean that there is no need for the inquisition?

:cool:

So ... Amy approached you first? Speaks well for her wisdom and sense of self, if you ask me ... well, even if you don't ask me! :p
Hmmm... IIRC, he posted something about wanting to meet "a certain NSer" but being unsure... and we'd been getting closer over emails and things... and then I asked him if I was guessing right in that NSer being me... and, uh, it went from there!
So I don't know who you'd quite classify as being the one to approach the other... but, however it happened, I'm over the moon that it did! :)

You ... you ... manipulative bastid, you! Heh! :p

Well- Think about it a little. I'm a polite gentleman to the old lady up the street-courteous small talk and friendliness.
How about the used car salesman,though? Or the guy that rear ended me at a stop sign? Or my kid's teacher? Or my mother?

Everyone gets a different look,depending who they are, what they want and what I need.
There are times to be charming and friendly and times to be otherwise.

Is this yet another thread whining about how girls never go for nice guys? I notice that this complaint is usually heard coming from the mouths of certain types of guys. Guys who think they're really great and they actually aren't. Take a look at yourself and get some opinions. Are you:

- poorly dressed/groomed? Smelly?
- fat? Really short? (I'm sorry, but these are tough sells.)
- whining and infantile? (I'm guessing yes for this one)
- Do you have annoying habits like having too much spit in your mouth all the time?
- Are you boring? Do you ever get out? When you do, do you just get sloppy drunk and embarass yourself? Are you a teetotaler who looks down on people who can drink in moderation?
- Do you have interesting friends? Do you have any friends? Are you waiting for a girl to come along so you can mooch off her life and not have one of your own?
- Do you only go for girls with boyfriends? How about girls on drugs? Girls who are self-destructing and/or self-absorbed? Girls who are way out of your league? Girls who like to rack up lots of guy friends who will boost her self-esteem by obviously wanting to sleep with her and she'll never give them any? (This is a big one.)

I hope this was helpful and you don't want to kill me now. My advice: get a therapist, who will (if you ask nicely) tell you what you need to fix and how to fix it in order to be attractive to girls, and help you figure out what kind of girl you're actually attracting now.

Is this yet another thread whining about how girls never go for nice guys? I notice that this complaint is usually heard coming from the mouths of certain types of guys. Guys who think they're really great and they actually aren't.

I think we've all met at least a few guys who are average-looking, yet who think they "deserve" to get really really hot girls. And if, god forbid, a hot girl decides she would rather go out with a hot guy, then she's a shallow bitch who only cares about looks.

Is this yet another thread whining about how girls never go for nice guys? I notice that this complaint is usually heard coming from the mouths of certain types of guys. Guys who think they're really great and they actually aren't. Take a look at yourself and get some opinions. Are you:

- poorly dressed/groomed? Smelly?
- fat? Really short? (I'm sorry, but these are tough sells.)
- whining and infantile? (I'm guessing yes for this one)
- Do you have annoying habits like having too much spit in your mouth all the time?
- Are you boring? Do you ever get out? When you do, do you just get sloppy drunk and embarass yourself? Are you a teetotaler who looks down on people who can drink in moderation?
- Do you have interesting friends? Do you have any friends? Are you waiting for a girl to come along so you can mooch off her life and not have one of your own?
- Do you only go for girls with boyfriends? How about girls on drugs? Girls who are self-destructing and/or self-absorbed? Girls who are way out of your league? Girls who like to rack up lots of guy friends who will boost her self-esteem by obviously wanting to sleep with her and she'll never give them any? (This is a big one.)

I hope this was helpful and you don't want to kill me now. My advice: get a therapist, who will (if you ask nicely) tell you what you need to fix and how to fix it in order to be attractive to girls, and help you figure out what kind of girl you're actually attracting now.

i always assume that these are geeky guys who wonder why the head cheerleader (or some other alpha female) wont give them the time of day.

but there are also those guys who think that girls should approach them and feel like losers because no girl ever does (but would be accepted if they approached the right girl at the right time).

then there are the boys who are still quite young and dont know that many successful men dont "blossom" until they get to college. not having a girlfriend by the time youre 16 isnt the mark of a lifelong loser.

and im wondering what "knight in shining armor" has to do with it. im pretty sure that NO man qualfies as that.

I think we've all met at least a few guys who are average-looking, yet who think they "deserve" to get really really hot girls. And if, god forbid, a hot girl decides she would rather go out with a hot guy, then she's a shallow bitch who only cares about looks.

Which is why guys who prefer ugly girls will get laid 24-7. By this line of reasoning. :D

A magic bullet if I ever saw one.

I think we've all met at least a few guys who are average-looking, yet who think they "deserve" to get really really hot girls. And if, god forbid, a hot girl decides she would rather go out with a hot guy, then she's a shallow bitch who only cares about looks.

Tell me about it. It's a marketplace, okay?

i have a question: why don't girls, generally speaking, approach guys? genuine question.

Hmmm... IIRC, he posted something about wanting to meet "a certain NSer" but being unsure... and we'd been getting closer over emails and things... and then I asked him if I was guessing right in that NSer being me... and, uh, it went from there!
So I don't know who you'd quite classify as being the one to approach the other... but, however it happened, I'm over the moon that it did! :)
yup, thats pretty much how i remember things. not really the standard 'one person asking another' thing - it was just.... we were friends, i made it clear i wanted to meet you and our relationship kicked off shortly after into another level, just through talking and getting closer, sharing feelings we each had (but had until then not told each other, you know?)

so it just sorta... happened :)
and i am, of course, so very glad! :D :fluffle:

Which is why guys who prefer ugly girls will get laid 24-7. By this line of reasoning. :D

A magic bullet if I ever saw one.

Actually, this is true. Lower your standards and you will get laid.

Actually, this is true. Lower your standards and you will get laid.

I know.

i have a question: why don't girls, generally speaking, approach guys? genuine question.

Simple: they do.

Simple: they do.

Bollocks they do.

i have a question: why don't girls, generally speaking, approach guys? genuine question.


I don't know about other girls, but my mother basically told me "the rules" when I was young. That is, don't call them, let them call you...make them meet your parents right away...guys are supposed to pay every time...guys are supposed to do the work in the relationship...if he really likes you he'll drop everything at any time if you need him, even if it's just to kill a bug in the bathroom and he lives an hour away...don't approach men cause they'll think you're a slut...don't sleep with a guy until you're engaged at least...etc.

Thankfully, I do the opposite of everything my mother tells me to do.

I have never had a problem approaching guys if I actually want them. If I feel iffy about the guy, I'll let him do the work and see how I feel about them based on that.

Bollocks they do.
I don't know how things work where you are, but where I grew up, where I went to college, and where I currently live (three totally different regions of the US), girls approach guys quite often. Therefore, the statement that "girls, generally speaking, do not approach guys" is false.

Perhaps girls in your region don't approach guys. Perhaps girls don't approach you or guys who you hang around with. I don't really know, but I do know that plenty of girls approach guys.

Simple: they do.

There's naturally the odd exception, but I don't feel that it's an unfair statement to make when I say that by and large, many women feel that it is the mans responsibility to make the first move.

Actually, this is true. Lower your standards and you will get laid.
or if you develop better standards than "whoever everyone thinks is hot"

there are many more average looking girls who have an actual personality and would make a much better choice for someone to have a relationship with.

and if youre not stuck on going with society's dictates of who is best looking youll realize that average girls are pretty damned good looking.

I don't know about other girls, but my mother basically told me "the rules" when I was young. That is, don't call them, let them call you...make them meet your parents right away...guys are supposed to pay every time...guys are supposed to do the work in the relationship...if he really likes you he'll drop everything at any time if you need him, even if it's just to kill a bug in the bathroom and he lives an hour away...don't approach men cause they'll think you're a slut...don't sleep with a guy until you're engaged at least...etc.

Uuuuuuugh. I've made it a priority to not get involved with any women who follow that code.

Thankfully, I do the opposite of everything my mother tells me to do.

Good! It's nice to see that less women are stuck in the 1940's these days.

I have never had a problem approaching guys if I actually want
them. If I feel iffy about the guy, I'll let him do the work and see how I feel about them based on that.

That's why you're cool. Actually I have been approached by three women in my life. Resulting in one relationship. In contrast I have approached maybe 100. Resulting in the one other relationship. The failure rate in this direction is much higher :D

There's naturally the odd exception, but I don't feel that it's an unfair statement to make when I say that by and large, many women feel that it is the mans responsibility to make the first move.

Yeah, I think this is passed-down wisdom from the era when it really was considered the man's responsibility to make the first move, or a woman would be considered "loose." Mommy's advice is often good, but in this case it's archaic, along with a lot of that shit she'll tell you about raising children.

Yeah, I think this is passed-down wisdom from the era when it really was considered the man's responsibility to make the first move, or a woman would be considered "loose." Mommy's advice is often good, but in this case it's archaic, along with a lot of that shit she'll tell you about raising children.

And, in my case, it's dad's advice that's archaic. You should hear the stuff he says about women who don't follow the christian ethics for "love"... Hilarious and utterly ridiculous, seeing as he's supposed to be this Left-leaning atheist and all.

That's why you're cool. Actually I have been approached by three women in my life. Resulting in one relationship. In contrast I have approached maybe 100. Resulting in the one other relationship. The failure rate in this direction is much higher :D

Funny how that works...women have a much higher acceptance rate, but whatever they get isn't always the best quality. Men have a low acceptance rate but they are much more likely to enjoy whatever they do get. I think it evens out in the end.

Yeah, I think this is passed-down wisdom from the era when it really was considered the man's responsibility to make the first move, or a woman would be considered "loose." Mommy's advice is often good, but in this case it's archaic, along with a lot of that shit she'll tell you about raising children.

Yeah...

Even if most women don't make the first move, it sure would be nice if some of them were a little more obvious when they're interested, rather than me finding out 6 months down the track that they were interested but "not anymore". Sigh. :p

or if you develop better standards than "whoever everyone thinks is hot"

there are many more average looking girls who have an actual personality and would make a much better choice for someone to have a relationship with.

and if youre not stuck on going with society's dictates of who is best looking youll realize that average girls are pretty damned good looking.

I wasn't dictated by society! Honest! It's just that the girls I think look hot also happen to be crowd favorites! Damn the Mindless Masses!

Seriously I prefer chubbier babes. The girls I like best are considered fat by my friends' standards. Bone-thin makes me instantly flaccid.

Yeah...

Even if most women don't make the first move, it sure would be nice if some of them were a little more obvious when they're interested, rather than me finding out 6 months down the track that they were interested but "not anymore". Sigh. :p

I know it's evil of me, but I laughed. Sorry.

:p

I know it's evil of me, but I laughed. Sorry.

:p

****. :p

Interestingly, my GF approached me. A cow-orker had talked me into trying square dancing, and I had been out of lessons a few weeks and been to a couple of singles dances. I was looking around for a partner, when a young lady came up to me and asked if I wanted to dance with her. We've been together ever since. :)

Funny how that works...women have a much higher acceptance rate, but whatever they get isn't always the best quality. Men have a low acceptance rate but they are much more likely to enjoy whatever they do get. I think it evens out in the end.

Nah I love them both. If I had to nitpick who I loved more, it would be the first relationship. Still miss them. :( Fuck me I'm a lousy boyfriend!

****. :p

Assfarmer. :p

i have a question: why don't girls, generally speaking, approach guys? genuine question.
As people have said, they do. I don't know whether it's the majority or minority but, in my limited experience (as everyone else it talking from to), girls aren't that much less likely to ask a guy out than vice versa.
However, for some reasons why some girls don't ask guys out...:
-simple shyness or intimidation (the same as with guys asking girls out)
-the idea that a girl asking a guy out is "desperate"
-the idea of "playing hard to get"

I don't know where those two ideas came from really. The first partly comes from the idea that men are more "easy", are desperate to have sex, obsess over women, will never turn down a women etc, so a women should be able to get a guy interested easily and having to make the first move shows being "desperate". The second partly comes from this whole "game-playing" thing where a guy should "prove" himself, show he's interested and worth the hassle - pass the test. Linked to this, when girls feel things deeply for a guy, it's often perceived as something one-sided where the girl is all "over-emotional" and more committed than the guy and it's seen as pathetic. There's also the idea that guys fear commitment or anything "heavy" so showing too much interest will scare them off. "Playing it cool" or whatever attempts to avoid these things.

They've just built up and some people or groups of people can treat these as social rules which, if you break, you get judged for.

(Just to be clear, I think all those things are bullshit - anyone who knows me will know how much these type of things piss me off, heh)

-snip-
so it just sorta... happened :)
and i am, of course, so very glad! :D :fluffle:

:) :fluffle:

I don't know how things work where you are, but where I grew up, where I went to college, and where I currently live (three totally different regions of the US), girls approach guys quite often. Therefore, the statement that "girls, generally speaking, do not approach guys" is false.

Perhaps girls in your region don't approach guys. Perhaps girls don't approach you or guys who you hang around with. I don't really know, but I do know that plenty of girls approach guys.
Sure there are the odd exception, but it is called a generalisation for a reason. Not all women wait for the male to make the first move but the majority do. I think everyone here appreciates the we are only talking about a generalisation, we know everyone of a certain gender can not be put in a single group.... except maybe gender :)

Bragging about how you hold doors for women is considered about the same as bragging that you wash your hands after you pee. . . .

Can I just break in here and say that I wash my hands after I pee? :rolleyes:

Can I just break in here and say that I wash my hands after I pee? :rolleyes:

You won't get a cookie for THAT. Ha Ha!

*Whispers*

Here kid take this Oreo and run for it before Bottle catches me.

;)

Can I just break in here and say that I wash my hands after I pee? :rolleyes:

That's hot. Wanna make babies?

I wasn't dictated by society! Honest! It's just that the girls I think look hot also happen to be crowd favorites! Damn the Mindless Masses!

Seriously I prefer chubbier babes. The girls I like best are considered fat by my friends' standards. Bone-thin makes me instantly flaccid.
the sooner you figure out what you really like the sooner youll be successful at getting those girls to notice you. going for the girls that all boys go for makes it much less likely that youll be the one they want to get to know better.

Personally, I prefer to let guys know the real reason why I am turning them down. But I am routinely called a bitch, a dyke, and a stupid ****, even when I explain things as politely as possible. So my way is not one that most women like to use.

Being tactless is nothing to brag about. Honesty is a virtue, but it's not the *only* virtue. Hurting people and then using the excuse "I was just being honest with you" is an indicator of a really cruel streak.

And if you're *routinely* called "a bitch, a dyke, and a stupid ****," maybe you should consider being nicer to people.

the sooner you figure out what you really like the sooner youll be successful at getting those girls to notice you. going for the girls that all boys go for makes it much less likely that youll be the one they want to get to know better.

Sooner? This has nothing to do with finding out my tastes. As long as I'm in Grad School I know I cannot possibly get laid. :rolleyes:

There's naturally the odd exception, but I don't feel that it's an unfair statement to make when I say that by and large, many women feel that it is the mans responsibility to make the first move.
quite. that is what a lot of women say (and hence why i said "generally speaking" in my question - obviously there are exceptions, but from my own life experience, the stereotype, and going by what a lot of guys and girls are saying here on this thread, the guy being the ask-ee is definately the 'done' thing).

i can change my question then to why is that perticular view so prevalent?


Thankfully, I do the opposite of everything my mother tells me to do.

:p good for you :D


Perhaps girls in your region don't approach guys. Perhaps girls don't approach you or guys who you hang around with. I don't really know, but I do know that plenty of girls approach guys.
i don't. and i recognise i was talking in generalities... hence the "generally speaking" :rolleyes:

Yeah, I think this is passed-down wisdom from the era when it really was considered the man's responsibility to make the first move, or a woman would be considered "loose." Mommy's advice is often good, but in this case it's archaic, along with a lot of that shit she'll tell you about raising children.
and i guess that kinda answers my question.

as does this

-the idea that a girl asking a guy out is "desperate"
-the idea of "playing hard to get"
-snip-

i was mostly asking to be devils advoctate/stir things up a little, heh...
the idea that women should not lower themselves to asking out a guy - men should present themselves to women as girls can have the pick of the litter is a driving force behind those two... which is what i was getting at (and what amy hinted at). a strange, superioristic custom, which i do not like.


(Just to be clear, I think all those things are bullshit - anyone who knows me will know how much these type of things piss me off, heh)


lol yes, i know that at least :D :p
devil's advocate = living dangerously (i had to gender stereotype to draw out my point... and i know how much you hate that :eek: :p)

devil's advocate = living dangerously

Like Austin Powers sir?

Like Austin Powers sir?
no... just dangerous as a fox!

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/mikejh/Basil%20Brush.jpg

no... just dangerous as a fox!

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/mikejh/Basil%20Brush.jpg

Wow. That's one fuck-ugly fox.

Wow. That's one fuck-ugly fox.
you not gonna ask him out cos of that?

how shallow :rolleyes: ;) :D

i was mostly asking to be devils advoctate/stir things up a little, heh...
the idea that women should not lower themselves to asking out a guy - men should present themselves to women as girls can have the pick of the litter is a driving force behind those two... which is what i was getting at (and what amy hinted at). a strange, superioristic custom, which i do not like.

lol yes, i know that at least :D :p
devil's advocate = living dangerously (i had to gender stereotype to draw out my point... and i know how much you hate that :eek: :p)
Heh, don't worry - "why is that perticular view so prevalent?" is what I assumed you were asking/kinda the question I started answering so you didn't invoke my wrath ;) :p

oo, being called for dinner but may return with more thoughts later... be warned :D

you not gonna ask him out cos of that?

how shallow :rolleyes: ;) :D

One man's fugly fox is another man's hump buddy.

I'll have two, please.

you not gonna ask him out cos of that?

how shallow :rolleyes: ;) :D
The fox is useless to me, it has teeth.

Being tactless is nothing to brag about. Honesty is a virtue, but it's not the *only* virtue. Hurting people and then using the excuse "I was just being honest with you" is an indicator of a really cruel streak.

And if you're *routinely* called "a bitch, a dyke, and a stupid ****," maybe you should consider being nicer to people.

IMO, "really cruel" is when a woman leads me on with false hope when she knows she's not interested. I prefer a direct "Get lost, geek" to game-playing.

IMO, "really cruel" is when a woman leads me on with false hope when she knows she's not interested. I prefer a direct "Get lost, geek" to game-playing.

There's a happy middle where they let you know that they're not interested while being civil about it...

Interestingly, my GF approached me. A cow-orker had talked me into trying square dancing, and I had been out of lessons a few weeks and been to a couple of singles dances. I was looking around for a partner, when a young lady came up to me and asked if I wanted to dance with her. We've been together ever since. :)

I pursued my current boyfriend very aggressively. We'll be together 4 years in October. The guys who had to come after me...well, I gave them a chance, but they weren't worth me going after them so they weren't worth me staying with them either.

Being tactless is nothing to brag about. Honesty is a virtue, but it's not the *only* virtue. Hurting people and then using the excuse "I was just being honest with you" is an indicator of a really cruel streak.

If you had read my posts throughout this thread, you would know that I am one of the people advocating for good manners most strongly. I believe it is possible to be both polite and honest, and I do my best to find ways to do this.

Example: a male friend makes advances that suggest he is interested in a relationship with me. I am not physically attracted to him, nor do I desire a romantic relationship with him. I tell him, "Look, I'm really flattered, and I like you a lot. But I'm not interested in a romantic relationship with you." If he presses the subject, I explain that I do not feel that sort of chemistry with him. If he still presses it, I tell him that I am not attracted to him and do not appreciate that he is refusing to respect my wishes.

I think that is more than generous. Personally, I take the hint if I get ONE rejection, so I feel that I am being quite fair by giving guys 3 chances before I smack them upside the head. :)


And if you're *routinely* called "a bitch, a dyke, and a stupid ****," maybe you should consider being nicer to people.
I have very carefully re-examined my behavior in many situations, because I assumed that people would not be calling me a "bitch" or a "stupid ****" unless I had done something deeply offensive. However, thus far, it appears that I receive these responses regardless of how polite or tactful I am in my rejections. Being polite and respectful doesn't seem to matter to some people; instead, there are guys who are going to call you a bitch if you reject them, no matter how gentle you are about it. I don't see any particular reason why I should change my behavior to cater to that sort of guy.

IMO, "really cruel" is when a woman leads me on with false hope when she knows she's not interested. I prefer a direct "Get lost, geek" to game-playing.
I prefer, "Sorry, not interested" for most party or club situations. Though I have found that it's usually not necessary to be even that blunt...most guys are able to pick up on when there is and is not chemistry, so it's usually not necessary to flat out tell them to knock it off.

I prefer, "Sorry, not interested" for most party or club situations. Though I have found that it's usually not necessary to be even that blunt...most guys are able to pick up on when there is and is not chemistry, so it's usually not necessary to flat out tell them to knock it off.You're much too generous Bottle. Cluelessness is rampant in my gender.

A subtle hint to some men requires hitting them square in the face with a two by four...

Sevenglasses']You forgot how it continued... the guys who heard the truth got angry and started telling all sorts of crap about her...

That sucks too.

There's a happy middle where they let you know that they're not interested while being civil about it...
The middle ground is for com...mun…terrorists.

women i have met always say they want a knight in shining armour...
I don't want a knight in shining armour. I can take care of myself, thank you. I'm not a damsel in distress in need of rescue.

You know the guy who looks good, treats them right, gets on with their parents, is good in bed...blah blah blah.
That's not a knight in shining armour. That's a good guy.

I have never yet met a women who, when they find such a person...and they do exsist actually wants to go out with them.
I'm dating such a guy now. I don't know so much about the getting along with parents thing, he's only met my parents once and they seemed to get along fine, but still. Hell, I'd be willing to follow this guy to another continent as soon as I'm done school if things work out.

I think perosnally women like a guy who treats them badly cause then the slightest sign of compasion is like the holy grail of all love...when five seconds later their getting the crap beaten out of the again.:headbang:
No, the problem most women have is that we like to think we can change people. Take a dirty, rusted penny and make it shine with the brilliance of the sun, it's like guys who buy old junkers of cars and fix them up until they purr like kittens.

I've gotten over that phase though. I put up with way too much of that in my last relationship. If someone doesn't know how to treat people well, I'm not going to be his emotional punching bag in hopes that he changes.

I prefer, "Sorry, not interested" for most party or club situations. Though I have found that it's usually not necessary to be even that blunt...most guys are able to pick up on when there is and is not chemistry, so it's usually not necessary to flat out tell them to knock it off.
I had one guy offer to buy me a drink 10 times, I kept turning him down and finally I conceeded and got a shot and left him alone at the bar.

I also had one guy ask me out on a date and after saying no for a number of times over a number of days in many different ways, he finally got the hint when I started to date a mutual friend. Except that he got mad at the mutual friend for "stealing" me away as though a) he ever "had me in the first place and b) I am an object to posess.


Some guys don't even get the obvious "bug off" hints and you have to wail on them with rejection until they get the idea.

I can take a hint

I can take a hint
Some guys are good with sublte hints.

Some are complete idiots. Or they assume that persistance will pay off.

I know what no means. When a girl tells me no, I stop, though they rarely do :D

Sometime being persistant does pay off, only if the girl want you to persue her. But, I don't keep at her all night, trying to buy her a drink.

I admit I'm not perfect. There is no such thing as a knight in shining armor, all men have chinks in their armor, some greater than others.

IMO, "really cruel" is when a woman leads me on with false hope when she knows she's not interested. I prefer a direct "Get lost, geek" to game-playing.
just as its difficult for you to pick up on the hint, its hard for women to know what to say that will get that point across without being mean about it. after all she doesnt necessarily think you are a complete loser just because she's not interested in dating you now.