NationStates Jolt Archive


Iran to become the Muslim version of Israel?

The Infinite Dunes
01-05-2006, 10:14
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4960478.stm

It seems like Iran might have been launching a few pre-emptive strikes of its own across the Iraqi border and into the Kurdish North. The PKK is alleged to have links with the Kurdish rebels in Iran, and so Iran decided it might be an idea to hit the PKK hard. How nice.
United Island Empires
01-05-2006, 10:18
The difference between Israel and Iran is that Iran is surrounded be religious allies, Israel by religious enemies. Which one do you think needs to be offensive?
ConscribedComradeship
01-05-2006, 10:23
The difference between Israel and Iran is that Iran is surrounded be religious allies, Israel by religious enemies. Which one do you think needs to be offensive?

Well, one has settlements in contravention of international law.
Superiala
01-05-2006, 10:25
Iran is run by a madman who denies that the holocaust ever took place. Israel is run by men wanting to stop terrorism. You can't compare them. Israel has been fighting against it's neighbours for about 3000 years now. And Iran only excists because China and Russia buy their oil there, thats why George W has not invaded it yet.
ConscribedComradeship
01-05-2006, 10:27
Iran is run by a madman who denies that the holocaust ever took place. Israel is run by men wanting to stop terrorism. You can't compare them. Israel has been fighting against it's neighbours for about 3000 years now. And Iran only excists because China and Russia buy their oil there, thats why George W has not invaded it yet.

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad wields very little influence, I think you will find.
Edit: Unless you are talking about Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, who I do not believe has denied the Holocaust.
The Infinite Dunes
01-05-2006, 10:33
Iran is run by a madman who denies that the holocaust ever took place. Israel is run by men wanting to stop terrorism. You can't compare them. Israel has been fighting against it's neighbours for about 3000 years now. And Iran only excists because China and Russia buy their oil there, thats why George W has not invaded it yet.I'll think you'll find that the nationstate of Israel has only existed for just over half a century... Iran has existed on and off (but mostly on) for about 3000 years though. Right back to way before they were Muslim and were trying to invade the Greek city states under Darius.

Iran is also run by men wanting to stop terrorism. Why do you think they decided to attack the PKK?

And with holocaust denial... that's a bit of a skewed argument. Have you ever met a Jew that denied that the holocaust happened?
Harlesburg
01-05-2006, 11:21
The difference between Israel and Iran is that Iran is surrounded be religious allies, Israel by religious enemies. Which one do you think needs to be offensive?
Iran, it has a Jewish 'neighbour'.
Rei-Sareng
01-05-2006, 11:48
Iran is run by a madman who denies that the holocaust ever took place. Israel is run by men wanting to stop terrorism. You can't compare them. Israel has been fighting against it's neighbours for about 3000 years now. And Iran only excists because China and Russia buy their oil there, thats why George W has not invaded it yet.

And Israel only exists because one fifth of all American international aid goes there. Certainly the Iranian government is a fundamentalist dictatorship, but Israel's no bed of roses either.

I'm not supporting Palestine either - Israel and Palestine are two sides of the same coin, a coin whose denomination is "Total bloody mess".
Harlesburg
01-05-2006, 12:11
And Israel only exists because one fifth of all American international aid goes there. Certainly the Iranian government is a fundamentalist dictatorship, but Israel's no bed of roses either.

I'm not supporting Palestine either - Israel and Palestine are two sides of the same coin, a coin whose denomination is "Total bloody mess".
Absododdle
United Island Empires
01-05-2006, 12:37
Well, one has settlements in contravention of international law.
exactly
ConscribedComradeship
01-05-2006, 12:39
exactly
Which is illegal...
Harlesburg
01-05-2006, 12:47
Which is illegal...
And is trying to return as much land as it can without Zealots causing a riot.
The Infinite Dunes
01-05-2006, 13:08
And is trying to return as much land as it can without Zealots causing a riot.Have you seen the plans where they plan to build the wall? As I remember it cuts into huge chunks of the west bank in places.
Lunatic Goofballs
01-05-2006, 13:10
The difference between Israel and Iran is that Iran is surrounded be religious allies, Israel by religious enemies. Which one do you think needs to be offensive?

They're both pretty offensive. :D
Holycrapsylvania
01-05-2006, 13:13
They're both pretty offensive. :D

I lol'd.
Harlesburg
01-05-2006, 13:19
Have you seen the plans where they plan to build the wall? As I remember it cuts into huge chunks of the west bank in places.
Yep i won't argue with that i find that to be wrong and in most cases spiteful and deliberate just to rub the Palestinians faces in it.
Haerodonia
01-05-2006, 13:20
Iran is run by a madman who denies that the holocaust ever took place. Israel is run by men wanting to stop terrorism. You can't compare them. Israel has been fighting against it's neighbours for about 3000 years now. And Iran only excists because China and Russia buy their oil there, thats why George W has not invaded it yet.

I'm not 100% sure about this, but didn't Israel belong to Palestine before it was given over to Jewish refugees after the holocaust?
Lunatic Goofballs
01-05-2006, 13:30
I lol'd.

Mission accomplished. :)
Harlesburg
01-05-2006, 13:32
Lets carve up a Sports field!-Israel.
Cataduanes
01-05-2006, 13:36
I'm not 100% sure about this, but didn't Israel belong to Palestine before it was given over to Jewish refugees after the holocaust?

Not really as no Palestine existed as a nation, under british rule it was part of the Transjordan mandate (i think??) and prior to that it was an Ottoman province. The Zionist org had been sending settlers from the start of the 20th century (i also think??).

I was under the impression that prior to the rise of israel the palestinians considered themselves to be syrian, it was the Israeli wars and the exile of the Palestinian diaspora that prompted the rise of a palestinian identity.
Harlesburg
01-05-2006, 13:44
Why hasn't America attacked yet?:rolleyes:
Francis Street
01-05-2006, 13:56
Iran to become the Muslim version of Israel?
A secular state with a Muslim majority? No.
Greyenivol Colony
01-05-2006, 14:04
I think this just echoes the need for an Independent Kurdistan, we (the West) promised them one 90 years ago, but we never delivered, and now they are persecuted in all of nations that they inhabit (except Iraq atm, but I doubt that any period of tolerance is likely to last in Iraq for long).

The Kurdish people are very anti-Islamist and secular (hell, most of the intellectual leaders of the independence movement are communists). I believe that the existance of Kurdistan will complete a triple pro-Western, democratic, anti-Islamist alliance in the Middle East of Turkey, Israel and Kurdistan.

It's time we made good on our promise and order Iraq and Iran to grant independence to their Kurdish territories, (Turkey can if they want, but we shouldn't force them, as they are our allies).
Harlesburg
01-05-2006, 14:08
Just look at Jugoslavia for a good example.
Dongara
01-05-2006, 15:15
A secular state with a Muslim majority? No.

Israel is not Secular.

Any state that identifies itself by a Religion is not Secular. Any state that gives special privileges to all people of a race/religion is not secular.
Tropical Sands
01-05-2006, 15:54
And Israel only exists because one fifth of all American international aid goes there. Certainly the Iranian government is a fundamentalist dictatorship, but Israel's no bed of roses either.

US aid makes up less than 2% of Israel's GDP. As such, US aid is really just a token gesture of support, not something that contributes significantly to its economy.
Tropical Sands
01-05-2006, 15:58
I'm not 100% sure about this, but didn't Israel belong to Palestine before it was given over to Jewish refugees after the holocaust?

No. There was no state called "Palestine" at any point in history. The area was a territory of the British, called The British Mandate Of Palestine. Jewish refugees bought the land from absentee landowners, and the land as a whole was granted to Jews to form a Jewish State. Likewise, a portion was partitioned off to Arabs to form a Palestinian state. However, the land didn't belong to any Arab group called "Palestinians" or a state called Palestine before this. Such an entity has never really existed and has only begun to develop after Israeli independence.
Dododecapod
01-05-2006, 16:02
The difference between Israel and Iran is that Iran is surrounded be religious allies, Israel by religious enemies. Which one do you think needs to be offensive?

You're forgetting that Iran is the one state most of the middle east hates MORE than Israel. As Shi'ites, the Iranians are considered heretics.
Tropical Sands
01-05-2006, 16:05
You're forgetting that Iran is the one state most of the middle east hates MORE than Israel. As Shi'ites, the Iranians are considered heretics.

Most of the Middle East doesn't hate Iran more than Israel. Being a Shi'ite doesn't effect the way that Iran has functioned in Arab state unions in the past. A present example is Iran leading the aid donations for the occupied territories. No one is complaining about how m uch they hate Iran, rather, Iran is being thanked for its close ties and friendship with the rest of the Arab world.
Fergusstan
01-05-2006, 16:19
No one is complaining about how m uch they hate Iran, rather, Iran is being thanked for its close ties and friendship with the rest of the Arab world.

just a point of information - Iran is not Arab, and, since the mid tenth century, hasn't been ruled by Arabs either. It is essential to remember that Arab and Islamic/Muslim are not the same thing. (well technically, Islamic and Muslim aren't the same thing either, but that's neither here nor there). So, Iran being thanked by the "rest of the Arab world" is a bit confusing as an idea. You may or may not have known this already, but either way, at least you do now.
23Eris
01-05-2006, 16:37
Turkey has no desire for an independent Kurdish state, and in fact demanded tat the US prevent the kurds in Iraq from declaring independence. The ruks fel that an independent Kurd nation will only add to the troubles Turkey already has with Kurdish seperatists.
Jeruselem
01-05-2006, 16:42
Ah, the Israelites vs the Persians (Iranians). They've never liked each other, but now Iran is doing catch up because Jews with nukes are not some nation you can just invade without nuclear retribution.
Andaluciae
01-05-2006, 16:47
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad wields very little influence, I think you will find.
Edit: Unless you are talking about Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, who I do not believe has denied the Holocaust.
The thing is Khamenei is dying from cancer and several other delightful dieseases, and when he bites the dust, Ahmedinejad is on top.
ConscribedComradeship
01-05-2006, 16:50
The thing is Khamenei is dying from cancer and several other delightful dieseases, and when he bites the dust, Ahmedinejad is on top.
He really isn't. The other clerics are.
Andaluciae
01-05-2006, 16:53
Which is illegal...
The strength of international law remains to be in question.
Fergusstan
01-05-2006, 16:53
He really isn't. The other clerics are.

Is Ahmadinejad a cleric? I don't think he was last time I checked, but I'll take correction.
Superiala
01-05-2006, 16:54
With Israel i meant the people and the country not the state. Iran kills homosexuals, hangs drug-users and kills women who have denied their man sex. Anyone not obeying the political image is shot on sight and women have no rights. Isreal is not the nicest of neighbours, but Iran is a country which totally sucks!
Andaluciae
01-05-2006, 16:55
He really isn't. The other clerics are.
Prove.

From the reading I've been doing it seems that once Kham. is dead, Ahm. will be in charge because he's currently very high profile and popular.