NationStates Jolt Archive

I got to thinking after reading a thread concerning fascism (because its so uncommon here at NS :p ) about different states that are moving toward fascism. I mean textbook fascism, not the Nazi boot stomping. And I remember in the thread in which I was reading (which I must have misplaced because I cant seem to find it :rolleyes: ) that some posters observed that some countries today are moving toward it. Now, I will be the first to acknowledge that fact that I do not know enough about current trends in the global scene at large, but I know that many here at NS do (as well they should, and I would too if it werent for all the bloody course work :( ).

Regardless, I decided to start a new thread addressing this topic. I'd like to hear what you all think, what country do you believe to be moving toward fascist policies or ideologies?

To make sure that we retain the definitions...

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Fascism

http://www.reference.com/browse/columbia/fascism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

I am interested to hear what you all think about what nation may very well become the next fascist-leaning state in the near future.

suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.


The U.S.A.

I heard just the other day of 3,000 protestors that got arrested while trying to block off the Bay Bridge. Unless I'm mistaken the Supreme Court has ruled that the Streets and Sidewalks are public forum.

Then theres GOP members labelling opponents as "Unpatriotic" for things as small as questioning Bush.

Then we have the FCC, which can be argued censors Bush's "opposition"; boobies. :p

The U.S.A.

I heard just the other day of 3,000 protestors that got arrested while trying to block off the Bay Bridge. Unless I'm mistaken the Supreme Court has ruled that the Streets and Sidewalks are public forum.

Then theres GOP members labelling opponents as "Unpatriotic" for things as small as questioning Bush.

Then we have the FCC, which can be argued censors Bush's "opposition"; boobies. :p


Well, blocking off major transport arteries and endagering the public safety of others is quite different. These protesters did not even have a permit so thats not a fair example.

As for the GOP labeling vociferous critics of the current criminal administration "Unamerican" or "Unpatriotic" and "Turning their backs on our troops", this is very true.

The FCC?? Hell don't even get me started!!!

I don't think America is a Facist state, not by a long shot. We still have one of the most open and free systems anywhere, but these freedoms are quickly being eroded under the auspices of "the war on terror." If Americans don't wake up, who knows were we will be in lets say 100 years.

Well, blocking off major transport arteries and endagering the public safety of others is quite different. These protesters did not even have a permit so thats not a fair example.


Wait, you need a permit to gather in a public forum, are you shitting me?


/Land of the Free
//My ass.

Wait, you need a permit to gather in a public forum, are you shitting me?


/Land of the Free
//My ass.

No, but if you are going to clog a major transport artery, such as a major street, I would think you would need one.

Wait, you need a permit to gather in a public forum, are you shitting me?


/Land of the Free
//My ass.

:rolleyes: Freedom of Assembly DOES NOT EQUAL freedom to rampage through the streets and cause havoc for everyone else. Thats ridicuous.

Amendment I, Constitution of the United States of America
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Theres a difference between Liberty and Taking Liberties.

No, but if you are going to clog a major transport artery, such as a major street, I would think you would need one.

:confused: They(Supreme Court) should've thought of that before they declared it a "Public Forum" then, dont'cha think?

Freedom of Assembly DOES NOT EQUAL freedom to rampage through the streets and cause havoc for everyone else. Thats ridicuous.

As I wasn't there I can't attest to it not being a "rampage", but as far as I know from watching them in the past, there usually fairly "civil", if loud. I wouldn't expect this particular one to have been any different.

:confused: They(Supreme Court) should've thought of that before they declared it a "Public Forum" then, dont'cha think?

I don't see it anywhere in the 1st amendment about a "public forum".

Wait, you need a permit to gather in a public forum, are you shitting me?


/Land of the Free
//My ass.

You see nothing wrong with allowing people to block a major bridge?

:rolleyes: Freedom of Assembly DOES NOT EQUAL freedom to rampage through the streets and cause havoc for everyone else. Thats ridicuous.

Amendment I, Constitution of the United States of America
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Theres a difference between Liberty and Taking Liberties.
...so...people protesting nonviolently in front of a bridge is suddenly no longer a peaceful assembly? :confused:

While I do agree that it was somewhat ridiculous to completely block up all traffic, that doesn't mean the city needs to press charges or anything.

As for the unpatriotic bullshit...dissent IS patriotic. Caring enough to point out when someone is implimenting an incorrect policy and running the country into the ground is far more patriotic than ignoring it and claiming all is well.

I don't think the FCC censors anything, however.

On the topic of Fascism, from the way I understand the definition of Fascism, the US is well on it's way. Mind you, it's not fascist yet. But ti coudl easily become a fascist nation.

The PATRIOT act is my main evidence for this claim, as it seems to me like an act which would give the state immense ammounts of power.

But Bush's scary pro-corporation politics could also classify the US as on the way to fascism, as fascism is the merge of corporation and state.

@Kyronea: I agree, pressing charges is a bit radical. But I think a better solution would have been to maybe tell the protestors to simply move or get off the streets.

I don't see it anywhere in the 1st amendment about a "public forum".

:rolleyes: I did a quick one-over on Google trying to find the ruling, no luck, but still in a __ v __ case they wouldn't ammend the Constitution, would they?

But Bush's scary pro-corporation politics could also classify the US as on the way to fascism, as fascism is the merge of corporation and state.

Not to mention the eerie A. Jackson-ish Pro-Executive Power politics he has also demonstrated.

@Kyronea: I agree, pressing charges is a bit radical. But I think a better solution would have been to maybe tell the protestors to simply move or get off the streets.

Unfortunately, that wasn't the point. The point of this protest in particular was to block the bridge to draw attention to the Iraq war, and being told to move by Policemen wouldn't have made the situation much better.

You see nothing wrong with allowing people to block a major bridge?

In the same way that I see nothing wrong with a guy from a state that gets upwards of 100 lightning strikes yearly saying that New Orleans got demolished for being a haven of sinners.

I don't like what's said or done, but I wouldn't wish anyone arrested just for my personal distaste.

I don't think the FCC censors anything, however.

They censor "swearing" and nudity, and threw a fit over the Janet Jackson incident during the Super Bowl.

I think anyone who thinks the US is a faschist nation or soon will be is simply paranoid. First of all, there will be other presidents after bush in a couple of years whom can easily change things. Secondly, contrary to popular belief, the "War on Terror" WILL eventually end (albiet taking quite a bit of time depending on how Iraq, Iran, and Korea go), thus eliminating the need for the Patriot Act altogether pretty much.

Finally, and most importantly, this is the UNITED STATES! We have some of the most outspoken people in the freakin' world! *eyes the Democratic party... >_>* Just look at the illegal aliens protesting people wanting them out of the US when they came here illegally and are hurting our economy. If there was something as large as the becoming of a Fashist nation, the people wouldn't stand for it and would obviously overcome the problem. It's just that simple, really.

What country do i think will go towards Fashism? To this point, i doubt any. It just doesn't make any sense. The only reason Fashism flourished before was twofold; first off during World War II when Fashism was better then the hellhole the people were previously living in, in Germany, after WWI. And Secondly, America *almost* went to faschism in the emmense fear of communism, a.k.a. "The Red Scare". Unless there is a huge threat like communism that would make people that afraid, or a leader that somehow completely got screwed over by a way (like Germany), i don't think Faschism in the real world is that big of a problem. But if any of those happen it is definitely viable if there is a good reason. One has yet to present itself, though.

P.S. First post on the forums, hope it makes an at least viable first impression ;)

Equatorial Guinea

*shifty eyes*

I think anyone who thinks the US is a faschist nation or soon will be is simply paranoid. First of all, there will be other presidents after bush in a couple of years whom can easily change things. Secondly, contrary to popular belief, the "War on Terror" WILL eventually end (albiet taking quite a bit of time depending on how Iraq, Iran, and Korea go), thus eliminating the need for the Patriot Act altogether pretty much.

What happens if they dont revoke or repeal the Patriot Act? Claiming that the war on terror isnt over? Or perhaps maybe if it is over, they leave it enstated because they say that it needs to be there for protection for the future?

Finally, and most importantly, this is the UNITED STATES! We have some of the most outspoken people in the freakin' world! *eyes the Democratic party... >_>* Just look at the illegal aliens protesting people wanting them out of the US when they came here illegally and are hurting our economy. If there was something as large as the becoming of a Fashist nation, the people wouldn't stand for it and would obviously overcome the problem. It's just that simple, really.

I dont think that any nation should be judged because it is the nation it is. Just because the United States is the United States does not make it impossible to see Fascist (this is how its spelled btw) ideologies creeping in. Italy was Italy before fascism.

Just because the US is outspoken doesnt necessarily mean they will stop fascist-leaning ideologies, one being the Patriot Act. The Northamericans didnt do a very good job cutting that down did they?

On a side note - I dont think you should say that immigrants are 'hurting [the US] economy'

What country do i think will go towards Fashism? To this point, i doubt any. It just doesn't make any sense. The only reason Fashism flourished before was twofold; first off during World War II when Fashism was better then the hellhole the people were previously living in, in Germany, after WWI. And Secondly, America *almost* went to faschism in the emmense fear of communism, a.k.a. "The Red Scare". Unless there is a huge threat like communism that would make people that afraid, or a leader that somehow completely got screwed over by a way (like Germany), i don't think Faschism in the real world is that big of a problem. But if any of those happen it is definitely viable if there is a good reason. One has yet to present itself, though.
Like oh say perhaps terrorism? and the new 'terrorist scare'?

P.S. First post on the forums, hope it makes an at least viable first impression ;)
Trust me, it has.

However, are there any thoughts to any other nations/countries besides the US?

Hate to bump this, but I am quite interested in hearing what you all do think. :)

Fascism is dead for the most part nowadays. It's possible to rise again in the near or far future though. I doubt the USA will become fascist.

National Socialism (Nazism), on the other hand, is getting more popular then it was during the Cold War and post-WWII. Why? I don't know.

Fascism is dead.

:rolleyes: Freedom of Assembly DOES NOT EQUAL freedom to rampage through the streets and cause havoc for everyone else. Thats ridicuous.

Amendment I, Constitution of the United States of America
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Theres a difference between Liberty and Taking Liberties.

So where do "free speech" zones play?

How is North Korea not a fascist state?

How is North Korea not a fascist state?

They're a Stalinist State.

IRL, Stalinism and Fascism is in practice the same, but they call themselves different things.

They're a Stalinist State.

IRL, Stalinism and Fascism is in practice the same, but they call themselves different things.
Exactly.

The US is one its way to becoming a Police State definetly. The signs of this are un arguably true. If you think other wise you need to pull the thumb out of your ass.

Now, is it becoming facist? not yet but after the police state is firmly in control it most likley will. My question is why? why the fuck does this keep happening in history, are humans that stupid that we simply do not learn? for fucks sake. Im hoping many americans will use the rights they still have while they have them to stop it from happening. 2nd amendment is very good. Founding fathers probably saw this comming.

Well, blocking off major transport arteries and endagering the public safety of others is quite different. These protesters did not even have a permit so thats not a fair example.
That was China's excuse for Tianamen square. Actually, you are allowed to hold dissenting protests in China, so long as you get a permit.
I don't think America is a Facist state, not by a long shot. We still have one of the most open and free systems anywhere, but these freedoms are quickly being eroded under the auspices of "the war on terror." If Americans don't wake up, who knows were we will be in lets say 100 years.
USA is a fascist stae, just not like any other before it. It is a new kind. Neo-fascism they will no doubt call it in years to come. USA bears all of the features of fascist ideaology (by pre-Mussolini Italian political theory definitions) except for indoctrinated rascism and authoritarian government. Socially and economically USA is Fascist to the letter. Politically, they are slightly divergent from classical fascism, in that there is a strong belief in the importance of the pretense of freedom and democracy. If I had to coin a term I would call them 'Liberal Fascism'.

Another Fascist state is China. Under the facade of 'two sytems one country', China is really something of a corporate fascist state. Although there are many small contradictions to this, it is for the most part true.

At a stretch you could also maybe define Singapore Fascist, though they are not so strong in their fascist ideas as they are in just being a 'Nanny' State.

They're a Stalinist State.

IRL, Stalinism and Fascism is in practice the same, but they call themselves different things.

http://www.wholewheatblogger.com/weblog/images/potandkettle250x150.jpg

:p

Canada.

Taiwan is the only nation that could possibly goes fascist.

That is, if you even consider them a nation at all.

Nigeria

Nigeria
Yep thats a good one, but it begs the question who will dominate Nigeria?? the muslim north or the largely christian south?? if no strong central government emerges in Nigeria then i can see there being a very bloody civil war.

My vote would go to China, if not in ideology then it certainly qualifies in terms of its actions.

Yep thats a good one, but it begs the question who will dominate Nigeria?? the muslim north or the largely christian south?? if no strong central government emerges in Nigeria then i can see there being a very bloody civil war.

My vote would go to China, if not in ideology then it certainly qualifies in terms of its actions.
True about Nigeria.
Also true about China, stalinism=Fascism

The next fascist state? I don't think that there are any states leaning towards it very strongly, but the strongest is probably Russia.

China's model of political authoritarianism mixed with a corporatist, market economy is arguably fascist already.

Wait, you need a permit to gather in a public forum, are you shitting me?

/Land of the Free
//My ass.
Blocking roads without permission can cause economic disruption and public safety hazards.

You're not allowed to block a road for a demonstration unless you have a permit first. This is the same in the USA, Ireland, Britain, France, the Netherlands and many other non-fascist nations.

China is a hoax and a load of BS.

The strict doctrine of fascism was defeated at the end of World War Two. So that no political organisation would be able to come to power by adopting the entirety of the fascist ideology, or even by naming themselves fascists - the doctrine was exterminated.

However! It is undeniable that the spirit of fascism still lives on, but under many guises, with its central attitudes of corporatocracy, militaryistic collectivism and authoritarianism still running rampant in many political cultures around the world.

And indeed, many of the states mentioned (i.e. China, North Korea) display these central values. But to answer the question, which will be the _next_ fascist state, I would say Russia, which is truly a disturbing case of 'liberalisation gone wrong', is the one that needs to be watched carefully. Although I enjoy the occassional bout of anti-Americanism as much as the next person, I believe that America will be protected from fascism for as long as the constitutional government remains more powerful than the morally-bankrupt corporations.

Fascism is dead.

Nonsense, below is a brakdown

Freedom in the World, 2005
Since 1978, Freedom House has published Freedom in the World, an annual comparative assessment of the state of political rights and civil liberties around the world. Widely used by policy makers, journalists, and scholars, the 600-page survey is considered the definitive report on freedom around the globe. The 2005 ratings reflect global events from Dec. 1, 2003, through Nov. 30, 2004.

According to the survey, 89 countries are free. Their 2.8 billion inhabitants (44% of the world's population) enjoy a broad range of rights. Fifty-four countries representing 1.2 billion people (19%) are considered partly free. Political rights and civil liberties are more limited in these countries, in which corruption, dominant ruling parties, or, in some cases, ethnic or religious strife is often the norm. The survey finds that 49 countries are not free. The 2.4 billion inhabitants (37%) of these countries, nearly three-fifths of whom live in China, are denied most basic political rights and civil liberties. In 2004, Russia was the only country to register a negative category change, moving from partly free to not free.

The list below features only independent countries. Freedom House's separate listing of territories reveals that four territories received the lowest possible political rights rating: Chechnya (Russia), Kashmir (Pakistan), Tibet (China), and Western Sahara (Morocco); of those, Chechnya and Tibet also received the lowest possible civil liberties ratings.

FREE1
Ranking: 1
Andorra
Australia
Austria
Bahamas
Barbados
Belgium
Canada
Cape Verde
Chile
Costa Rica
Cyprus
Czech Republic
Denmark
Dominica
Estonia
Finland
France
Germany
Hungary
Iceland
Ireland
Italy
Kiribati
Liechtenstein
Luxembourg
Malta
Marshall Islands
Mauritius
Micronesia
Nauru
Netherlands
New Zealand
Norway
Palau
Poland
Portugal
San Marino
Slovakia
Slovenia
Spain
Sweden
Switzerland
Tuvalu
United Kingdom
United States
Uruguay
Ranking: 1.5
Belize
Bulgaria
Greece
Grenada
Japan
Latvia
Monaco
Panama
St. Kitts and Nevis
St. Lucia
St. Vincent and Grenadines
South Africa
South Korea
Suriname
Taiwan
Ranking: 2
Antigua and Barbuda
Argentina
Benin
Botswana
Croatia
Dominican Republic
Ghana
Guyana
Israel
Lithuania
Mali
Mexico
Mongolia
Samoa
Sao Tome and Principe
Vanuatu
Ranking: 2.5
Brazil
El Salvador
India
Jamaica
Lesotho
Namibia
Peru
Philippines
Romania
Senegal
Serbia and Montenegro
Thailand


PARTLY FREE1
Ranking: 3
Albania
Bolivia
East Timor
Ecuador
Honduras
Kenya
Macedonia
Madagascar
Nicaragua
Niger
Papua New Guinea
Paraguay
Seychelles
Solomon Islands
Sri Lanka
Trinidad and Tobago
Turkey
Ranking: 3.5
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Fiji
Georgia
Indonesia
Moldova
Mozambique
Sierra Leone
Tanzania
Ukraine
Venezuela
Ranking: 4
Bangladesh
Colombia
Comoros
The Gambia
Guatemala
Guinea-Bissau
Malawi
Malaysia
Nigeria
Tonga
Zambia
Ranking: 4.5
Armenia
Burkina Faso
Congo, Rep. of
Gabon
Jordan
Kuwait
Liberia
Morocco
Singapore
Uganda
Ranking: 5
Bahrain
Burundi
Djibouti
Ethiopia
Nepal
Yemen


NOT FREE1
Ranking: 5.5
Afghanistan
Algeria
Angola
Azerbaijan
Bhutan
Brunei
Cambodia
Central African Republic
Chad
Egypt
Guinea
Kazakhstan
Lebanon
Maldives
Mauritania
Oman
Pakistan
Qatar
Russia
Rwanda
Tajikistan
Togo
Tunisia
Ranking: 6
Cameroon
Congo, Dem. Rep. of
Cote d'Ivoire
Iran
Iraq
Swaziland
United Arab Emirates
Ranking: 6.5
Belarus
China
Equatorial Guinea
Eritrea
Haiti
Laos
Somalia
Uzbekistan
Vietnam
Zimbabwe
Ranking: 7
Cuba
Libya
Myanmar (Burma)
North Korea
Saudi Arabia
Sudan
Syria
Turkmenistan


1. Countries are ranked according to political rights and civil liberties on a scale from 1.0 (most free) to 7.0 (least free). Source: Freedom in the World, 2005, published by Freedom House. www.freedomhouse.org/research/survey2005.htm .
Global Trends in Freedom
Year
under
review Free
countries Partly
free
countries Not free
countries
1974 41 (27%) 48 (32%) 63 (41%)
1984 53 (32%) 59 (35%) 55 (33%)
1994 76 (40%) 61 (32%) 54 (28%)
2004 89 (46%) 54 (28%) 49 (26%)

Source: Freedom in the World, an annual comparative assessment of the state of political rights and civil liberties around the world, published by Freedom House. www.freedomhouse.org/research/survey2005.htm

Afghanistan is free!

Afghanistan is free!

Being liberated and being free are two very different things

Being liberated and being free are two very different things
Democratically elected Government isn't free enough?

Democratically elected Government isn't free enough?

1. Government really only controls Kabul
2. Government is only in place because of foriegn troops (just as Larent Desire Kabila was in DRC before his bodyguards murdered him)
3. Power within the "Democracy" in as much as it exists, is still limited to small factions with links to foreign backers and armed malitias.
4. Just because it is not free yet does not mean that those in power are not trying to make it free(r)

1. Government really only controls Kabul
2. Government is only in place because of foriegn troops (just as Larent Desire Kabila was in DRC before his bodyguards murdered him)
3. Power within the "Democracy" in as much as it exists, is still limited to small factions with links to foreign backers and armed malitias.
4. Just because it is not free yet does not mean that those in power are not trying to make it free(r)
Well i'll accept that then.

Countries listed in my first email with a rating or 6.0 or higher can be called totalitarian and the vast majority of them would also be fascist because of the nature of the ruling parties (factions)

New Zealands Labour party is a real bitch.

I got to thinking after reading a thread concerning fascism (because its so uncommon here at NS :p ) about different states that are moving toward fascism. I mean textbook fascism, not the Nazi boot stomping. And I remember in the thread in which I was reading (which I must have misplaced because I cant seem to find it :rolleyes: ) that some posters observed that some countries today are moving toward it. Now, I will be the first to acknowledge that fact that I do not know enough about current trends in the global scene at large, but I know that many here at NS do (as well they should, and I would too if it werent for all the bloody course work :( ).

Regardless, I decided to start a new thread addressing this topic. I'd like to hear what you all think, what country do you believe to be moving toward fascist policies or ideologies?

To make sure that we retain the definitions...

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Fascism

http://www.reference.com/browse/columbia/fascism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

I am interested to hear what you all think about what nation may very well become the next fascist-leaning state in the near future.

using the terms listed in the links the uk is vastly becoming that way the government rule or try to every aspect of life from the way you teach your children to the way your body is (look at the bmi and tell me a body bulder is fit by using that indicator only) the funny part is tony blair was supposedly pro communist in the 60's unfortunately its just gone nuts over the past few years

Why must you hinder me at every move?

Why must you hinder me at every move?

Who hinders you?

next fascist state? do you mean america or besides and in addition to america?

all idiological terms have a tendency to get used rather loosely,
whatever it might say in any dictionary
to the contrary

whatever the details of ANY idiology, it is always tyrannical to prioritise that idiology ahead of the kind of world we all have to live in

=^^=
.../\...

The state closest to Fascism is clearly Israel, so even though Fascism is dead, Israel is the closest you can get without actually calling yourself such.