NationStates Jolt Archive

In One Book.Has changed the face of the earth, Of Course you all know I'm talking about the Bible.

Now wait, befor you jump and post a negative relpy,just look at this:

1)It's very old (3 000years+)
2)It's a powerfull book(ie started wars)
3)It has influnced many people, great thinkers and nations.
4)It's very long, A colection of over 65 books, with hundereds of chapters and thousands of verses.
5)It is basicly the foundation of Law to over 2/3rds of the world.
6)It has so much truth in it that works, lessons about:
-mercy
-forgiveness
-honesty
-humility
-love
-patience
-temperance
-obedience
-peacefullness
-swearing
-hatred
-crime
-death
-enemies
-marriage
the list goes on...

Now I know this is the book with the most violence in human history(OT), but it is also the book with the most love, and teachings in it.(NT)

Now I know a lot of people get their views about Christianity by some "christians" and some "Christian" Chruchs, but look no chruch or christian is perfect, not even one, ever and never will be. Because it is controled by "Man"(for all femimists out there "humans")But if you ever sit down and read a little bit of this huge book and give it a chance, it will change you.

So befor you go and covert to another religion because the one your in doesn't "dig" you, stop and look at the big picture.

The Bible Verse Other Books-
The Quran came from Mohammed. The Book of Mormon came from Joseph Smith. But the Bible is unique among the many sacred books in the world. One person did not write it. Rather, the Old and New Testaments were written by 40 different authors, located in Asia, Africa and Europe, over a 1600-year time span.
Beyond its unique authorship, the Bible contains a massive amount of prophecies which later were fulfilled in detail. For example, various Old Testament prophets gave over 300 specific prophecies about the coming Messiah, ie. where He would be born, where He would grow up, etc. These prophecies were perfectly fulfilled by Jesus Christ hundreds of years later. These and the many other fulfilled prophecies show why the authors could write, "Thus says the Lord..."--they were speaking for the One who knows "the end from the beginning.

Also archaeology repeatedly confirms peoples' names, historical events, and geographical details exactly as they are recorded in the Old and New Testaments. Though archaeology cannot prove the spiritual truth of the Bible, the discoveries do show the Bible's reliability as an historical report.
But no matter what people wrote against it, how many times people burt it, did whatever to it, it stood strong. And became even stronger when the Dead Sea Scrolls were found proving to critics that it's message has not been altered over thousands of years.

Cornelius Tacitus (A.D. 55-120), an historian of first-century Rome, "is considered one of the most accurate historians of the ancient world."An excerpt from Tacitus tells us that Nero "inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class...called Christians. ...Christus [Christ], from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus...." (In contrast, the Muslim Quran, written six centuries after Jesus lived, reports that Jesus was never crucified, though it is a fact confirmed by numerous secular historians.)

The Bible has a tremendous amount of historical detail, so not everything mentioned in it has been found through archaeology. However, not one archaeological find has conflicted with what the Bible records.

Like come on sence evolution was brought into the picture it still hasn't many minds, or but a dent in the bible.Look at The Exodus events, people have been trying to prove it wrong for ages but the bible stands strong, it's tough man.(oh if you've seen Exodus Decoded on the Discovery Channel lately you know what i'm talking about)

This is simply not just "ANOTHER BOOK". It is a book fit for and writen by a King.

So my question is this, Why Do People Hate And Want To Disprove The Bible So Much?

Know i'd like to ster away from half-assed remarks like "they'd'a wata disproive dis bouk cuse its aulll rong"

Come On.
Give Me All You Got.


Thanks.

Ahh! Teh evilz!!!11!!ONE *Runs away before the flames can get to this thread*

In One Book.Has changed the face of the earth, Of Course you all know I'm talking about the Bible.

Now wait, befor you jump and post a negative relpy,just look at this:

1)It's very old (3 000years+)

*snipped for boring shite*

No its not. Only part of it is.

You know what I'm quoting!

Amen...

Back in the 1990s, instruction manuals for VCRs would undergo one translation.

Actually, "Quotations from Chairman Mao Tse-tung (Little Red Book)" has probably been more influential than the Bible.

I'd also be so bold as to say that more people follow Lao Tsu or the Buddha than follow Jesus.

But, then again, I'm not stuck in a Western Only mindset.

This is simply not just "ANOTHER BOOK". It is a book fit for and writen by a King.

The only Kings who wrote any part of what you're calling "The Bible" were Solomon and David. Much of Solomon's writings were taken out for the final King James revision.

*Pulls out the hot dogs and marshmellows, this is gonna be a hot one*

The Bible has a tremendous amount of historical detail, so not everything mentioned in it has been found through archaeology. However, not one archaeological find has conflicted with what the Bible records.

Maybe because there haven't been any substantial finds? :rolleyes:

Like come on sence evolution was brought into the picture it still hasn't many minds, or but a dent in the bible.Look at The Exodus events, people have been trying to prove it wrong for ages but the bible stands strong, it's tough man.(oh if you've seen Exodus Decoded on the Discovery Channel lately you know what i'm talking about)

That's because evolution is about the factual and can be tested. The events in the bible cannot be proven and that means that they can't be disproved. Also evolution has to do with biology and not history (in a human sense).

However, not one archaeological find has conflicted with what the Bible records.

Like?

This is simply not just "ANOTHER BOOK". It is a book fit for and writen by a King.

So my question is this, Why Do People Hate And Want To Disprove The Bible So Much?


I beg to differ... It is another book, much like the Epic of Gilgamesh.

People want to disprove it because they are tired of being fed utter crap. You can only take so much nonsense, so you would want to find out what really occurred, and how we really came to be. If you believe something such as we magically came about because someone decided to make life out of random, then you have to get out more.

I'd also be so bold as to say that more people follow Lao Tsu or the Buddha than follow Jesus.
Mmm, no. Christianity still is the largest religion on the planet. Last esitmate I saw was around 3 billion or so.

You know, and i sincerely don't say this to flame you, but someone could post that The Lord of the Rings is a book that changed the world and give just as many valid reasons why. Hell many of the things you listed that The Bible discusses are also depicted in LOTR. Love, friendship, loyalty, hope, faith, compassion, trust, understanding, forgiveness, etc. Like The Bible it depicts war and peace, hate as well as love, good and evil, the list goes on. Now, i am biased as LOTR is my favorite book, but i bet you could find various other works that discuss those things. Hell, in Shakespeare's canon alone you could. Many things were influenced by religion of course, but let's not act like The Bible is the only book that gives us any valuable lessons.

The big problem with the Bible is not the book itself, but rather the attitudes towards it and the misuse of it in society. It's absolutely fine for people or God to write books about what kinds of behaviour create the best end result or stories about where we may have come from, but they are not in themselves sufficient support for (or increasingly, excuse of) social or intellectual attitudes. Those who would take the Bible and use it as the sole justification for harmful action are where the problem lies.

1)It's very old (3 000years+)
Age does not equate greatness nor wisdom.
2)It's a powerfull book(ie started wars)
So have other books. The Quaran, Capital (or other books by Marx, but this was the big one), etc. And starting wars isn't the best quality to be touting.
3)It has influnced many people, great thinkers and nations.
Again, so have many books. Many, many books.
4)It's very long, A colection of over 65 books, with hundereds of chapters and thousands of verses.
Length does not equate greatness nor wisdom. You can't prove God's existance by exhaustion.
5)It is basicly the foundation of Law to over 2/3rds of the world.
And many of those laws have been negative in many ways.

The only Kings who wrote any part of what you're calling "The Bible" were Solomon and David. Much of Solomon's writings were taken out for the final King James revision.


lol...noob, i was talking about, being inspired by God himself "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God,and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousnes" 2 tim 3:16

You know, and i sincerely don't say this to flame you, but someone could post that The Lord of the Rings is a book that changed the world and give just as many valid reasons why. Hell many of the things you listed that The Bible discusses are also depicted in LOTR. Love, friendship, loyalty, hope, faith, compassion, trust, understanding, forgiveness, etc. Like The Bible it depicts war and peace, hate as well as love, good and evil, the list goes on. Now, i am biased as LOTR is my favorite book, but i bet you could find various other works that discuss those things. Hell, in Shakespeare's canon alone you could. Many things were influenced by religion of course, but let's not act like The Bible is the only book that gives us any valuable lessons.

The LoTR is a Christian allegory. Like Narnia- though not so blatent.

You knew that right?

I don't hate The Bible, in fact i think one of the worst things anyone can do is just dismiss it simply because it was written by religious people. You should never dismiss anything without experiencing it. Even if you don't believe in any of the stories, you can still read and enjoy it as a work of fiction. It's more about how people interepret it that causes the problems, and the way some Christians feel that even those who aren't Christians should adhere to anything in it, even when they themselves don't.

Mmm, no. Christianity still is the largest religion on the planet. Last esitmate I saw was around 3 billion or so.

YES!! EAT IT!

lol...noob
"Smash"

"Whoosh"

"Splat"


To clarify, that was your credibility flying out the window, failing to keep itself supported and hitting the kerb.

Hmmm... Let's put it another way.

The Bible is a collection of several-score volumes of parables, stories, and proverbs, divided mainly into two major sections (Old and New Testaments). It was collected between about 60 and 200 CE by historians recording tales passed down through countless generations by word of mouth, some of its teachings already over two thousand years old by that point. With over 70 different authors recording these tales, dozens of contradictions emerged, along with conflicting versions of the same stories; rather than editing any of these they were recorded as-is, translated and re-translated into nonsense, and emerged as the holy book of a large cult on an insignificant little planet a few light-years west of Alpha Centauri.

And people insist on taking literally. :rolleyes:

YES!! EAT IT!
Charming.

YES!! EAT IT!

Wow! Are all christians as egotistic and arrogant as you?

Yes, Tolkien was a very Christian man. Many people also believe he wrote it as an allegory of WWII since his son fought in it.

I admitted that many things are based on Christianity, that doesn't change the fact that many other books, even those that wouldn't be counted as Christian allegories, could be said to have changed the world.

You know, and i sincerely don't say this to flame you, but someone could post that The Lord of the Rings is a book that changed the world and give just as many valid reasons why. Hell many of the things you listed that The Bible discusses are also depicted in LOTR. Love, friendship, loyalty, hope, faith, compassion, trust, understanding, forgiveness, etc. Like The Bible it depicts war and peace, hate as well as love, good and evil, the list goes on. Now, i am biased as LOTR is my favorite book, but i bet you could find various other works that discuss those things. Hell, in Shakespeare's canon alone you could. Many things were influenced by religion of course, but let's not act like The Bible is the only book that gives us any valuable lessons.


I'll defend that by simply...it gives the most lessons.

Wow! Are all christians as egotistic and arrogant as you?
Someone has yet to meet Neo Rogolia.

Or Corneliu.

Or Commando3 (or any of dozens of drones).

Or Ffc2.

In comparison, this guy's a humble saint.

However, not one archaeological find has conflicted with what the Bible records.

That's right. And kangaroos hopped all the way from Mount Arafat to Australia and some of Noah's children became aboriginal. But they didn't evolve, God made them that way.

Yes, Tolkien was a very Christian man. Many people also believe he wrote it as an allegory of WWII since his son fought in it.

Really?
Huh. Didn't know that one now :)

The big problem with the Bible is not the book itself, but rather the attitudes towards it and the misuse of it in society. It's absolutely fine for people or God to write books about what kinds of behaviour create the best end result or stories about where we may have come from, but they are not in themselves sufficient support for (or increasingly, excuse of) social or intellectual attitudes. Those who would take the Bible and use it as the sole justification for harmful action are where the problem lies.


Oh of course thats not what i'm trying to say, of course lessons have been thought by other sources but it is reasponsiable for a good deal of it. And yes I agree with you alot on how it is misused is society. but the only reason the people get some of there will and actions are from the bible itself(the book), now you cannot seperate one from the other, some bull like, hate the sin but love the sinner, they can not be seperated. Like there would have been no sin if there was not a sinner. same goes along the lines of the bible, people will come and twist The Word to fit their ways. you cannot do that.

Yeah, i was watching some special they had on the book just after the movies came out, and they gave all these different examples of things in the book that could be representative of WWII, like the one true evil power they are all fighting against, the fact that there was the side considered to be good, the side considered to be evil, and everyone knew which side was which, and other things i can't remember. It was a much more convincing argument than i just gave...lol.

lol...noob, i was talking about, being inspired by God himself "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God,and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousnes" 2 tim 3:16

...said the guy with 23 posts to the guy with 14,000? WTF, over?

And you can't say "well, it was written by God" to prove anything to people who a) don't believe in God b) aren't Christian or c) are Christians who know the bible is merely a collection of fairy tales written by men to teach morality.

That's right. And kangaroos hopped all the way from Mount Arafat to Australia and some of Noah's children became aboriginal. But they didn't evolve, God made them that way.
Not to mention that Satan placed 11,000-year-old fossils of 2-foot-tall humans in Java to lead archaeologists onto the dark paths of sin, and God created the early Egyptian and Sumerian temples with the rest of the world so the predynastic people who arrived there from Eden could enjoy the merits of an already built civilisation.

And as the world's entire human population is descended from one man and one woman, 75% of humanity is born with serious birth defects as a result of the incest required to make the population multiply by such a degree.

Yes, Tolkien was a very Christian man.

Which explains why I seem to connect with Heinlien's works much better.

I don't hate The Bible, in fact i think one of the worst things anyone can do is just dismiss it simply because it was written by religious people. You should never dismiss anything without experiencing it. Even if you don't believe in any of the stories, you can still read and enjoy it as a work of fiction. It's more about how people interepret it that causes the problems, and the way some Christians feel that even those who aren't Christians should adhere to anything in it, even when they themselves don't.


Amen to that brother. That is the key message.

Not to mention that Satan placed 11,000-year-old fossils of 2-foot-tall humans in Java to lead archaeologists onto the dark paths of sin, and God created the early Egyptian and Sumerian temples with the rest of the world so the predynastic people who arrived there from Eden could enjoy the merits of an already built civilisation.

And as the world's entire human population is descended from one man and one woman, 75% of humanity is born with serious birth defects as a result of the incest required to make the population multiply by such a degree.

Don't forget that the world is only 6000 years old, man conquered the dinosaurs (who were in the garden of eden, and Noah somehow fit two of each into his ark), and the sun revolves around the earth, because the earth is the center of the universe.

This whole "the bible is true" crap should have been settled by the whole Galileo vs. the Inquisition incident.

Wow! Are all christians as egotistic and arrogant as you?

Yeah that was just kind'a a out burst, hey i'm human

Yeah, Tolkien isn't one of my favorite writers, and fantasy in general is not a genre i'm a big fan of, i just love LOTR, and i do like The Hobbit too. The Silmarillion was okay too, it does give a good background to the whole creation of Middle Earth, but i didn't like it as much as the other two.

Anyway, i didn't mean to hijack the thread, sorry about that...lol.

By the way Omni (do you mind if i shorten your name like that?), i'm a sister;)

Man, I dunno about the Bible. I have no problem with the book in and of itself, but the people who take it literally and/or misinterperet it (deliberately sometimes)... Well, those I do have a problem with. So, I see people trying to disprove it as merely trying to cut the main support out from under these people. Which is good.

As an aside, do you think I can cook my sausages over the flames that are bound to erupt in this thread, or would I kill myself in a grease fire?

Man, I dunno about the Bible. I have no problem with the book in and of itself, but the people who take it literally and/or misinterperet it (deliberately sometimes)... Well, those I do have a problem with. So, I see people trying to disprove it as merely trying to cut the main support out from under these people. Which is good.

As an aside, do you think I can cook my sausages over the flames that are bound to erupt in this thread, or would I kill myself in a grease fire?

Hey..who says which should be interpereted literally or not, the only time that came into effect is when evolution poped up.Hey Evolutionists you should go search for your missing link, it sure has been missing for a long time, along with, what was befor the Big Band, explain to me the law of conervation of montatiom* and why other planets and glaxies spin the other way, how non-living gas turns into living things? oh and also if i came from a rock, what does that mean for morals and law? If you take one thing for truth and not the other why is that, if you attack the foundation, what happens to the rest?

oh and yah..i think i'd rather have you cook your sausages of the flame of nasty discussion, other then killing yourself. BUT HEY discussion is good.

Man, I dunno about the Bible. I have no problem with the book in and of itself, but the people who take it literally and/or misinterperet it (deliberately sometimes)... Well, those I do have a problem with. So, I see people trying to disprove it as merely trying to cut the main support out from under these people. Which is good.

As an aside, do you think I can cook my sausages over the flames that are bound to erupt in this thread, or would I kill myself in a grease fire?



also if you think this is going to be a buring thread, being spammed by thousands of people every second just look at the Thread "is evil real" over 250 posts and 6 pages in less then a few hours, can't wait for this one.

Hey..who says which should be interpereted literally or not, the only time that came into effect is when evolution poped up.Hey Evolutionists you should go search for your missing link, it sure has been missing for a long time, along with, what was befor the Big Band, explain to me the law of conervation of montatiom* and why other planets and glaxies spin the other way, how non-living gas turns into living things? oh and also if i came from a rock, what does that mean for morals and law? If you take one thing for truth and not the other why is that, if you attack the foundation, what happens to the rest?


You started on one point and then quickly meandered onto several others before just wafting in a few random sentances about rocks and laws mixed in with confusing spelling....

What are you trying to say? (Take your time.)

Hey..who says which should be interpereted literally or not, the only time that came into effect is when evolution poped up.Hey Evolutionists you should go search for your missing link, it sure has been missing for a long time, along with, what was befor the Big Band, explain to me the law of conervation of montatiom* and why other planets and glaxies spin the other way, how non-living gas turns into living things? oh and also if i came from a rock, what does that mean for morals and law? If you take one thing for truth and not the other why is that, if you attack the foundation, what happens to the rest?

oh and yah..i think i'd rather have you cook your sausages of the flame of nasty discussion, other then killing yourself. BUT HEY discussion is good.

I never said everone took it literally, and I would disagree with what you say about people taking the Bible literally only since Evolution...I believe that the "Good Book" has been interpreted literally for much, much longer than that.

And I hesitate to adress most of your questions, as I am no scientist of any type. Although I question what "montatiom" is.

And in regards to morals...huh? Morals are entirely subjective. They are merely what people believe to be "right" and "wrong." Morals vary, sometimes very widely, between people.

And laws are merely based on the morals of the leaders of a nation at the time those laws are created...or at least,the morals of those leaders, and what would be most approved of by the most people in said nation.

You started on one point and then quickly meandered onto several others before just wafting in a few random sentances about rocks and laws mixed in with confusing spelling....

What are you trying to say? (Take your time.)


Sorry about that, pick one thing out of it and I will explain it better for you, but hurry I'm getting sleepy

Sorry about that, pick one thing out of it and I will explain it better for you, but hurry I'm getting sleepy
Then go to sleep little one.

Come back in the morning and see what happens.

Hey..who says which should be interpereted literally or not, the only time that came into effect is when evolution poped up.Hey Evolutionists you should go search for your missing link, it sure has been missing for a long time, along with, what was befor the Big Band, explain to me the law of conervation of montatiom* and why other planets and glaxies spin the other way, how non-living gas turns into living things? oh and also if i came from a rock, what does that mean for morals and law? If you take one thing for truth and not the other why is that, if you attack the foundation, what happens to the rest?

oh and yah..i think i'd rather have you cook your sausages of the flame of nasty discussion, other then killing yourself. BUT HEY discussion is good.

Before Big Band? Umm, I think the most popular music was Country and some Blues. :p

And that entire post was so incoherent, I can't even begin to answer it seriously.

By the way Omni (do you mind if i shorten your name like that?), i'm a sister;)


oh good heavens sorry bout that, yeah sure Omi is fine

Before Big Band? Umm, I think the most popular music was Country and some Blues. :p

And that entire post was so incoherent, I can't even begin to answer it seriously.


HAHAHAHH!!!! on, man..i must have been laughing for around two minutes there..

Then go to sleep little one.

Come back in the morning and see what happens.


thank you, I will return after rest and when I got some time.


Be Blessed

That's okay, my nation name isn't gender specific...lol

Hey..who says which should be interpereted literally or not, the only time that came into effect is when evolution poped up.

Look up Copernicus, Galileo, etc...

Hey Evolutionists you should go search for your missing link, it sure has been missing for a long time
How many times do we have to hear this? They discover new species of dinosaurs EVERY year. Unless you can trace you lineage all the way back to Adam and Eve, your lineage has holes in it too. The only difference is that evolution has a little thing called EVIDENCE supporting it, while bible creationism's only evidence is (suprise suprise) the bible.
along with, what was befor the Big Band, explain to me the law of conervation of montatiom* and why other planets and glaxies spin the other way, how non-living gas turns into living things?
The Big Bang illustrates a more realistic interpretation, based on EVIDENCE (re: not a book of fairy tales, made up by men barely out of caves to explain the world) of creation. The Catholic Church has even agreed that evolution and the Big Bang are probable, and that the bible is an allegory, made up when people didn't know much in the way of science. So the Catholics are with the atheists on this one. The law of conservation of momentum illustrates (if I remember high school physics) that things (like, say, electricity) move along the path of least resistance. Part of the laws of nature, and has nothing to do with creationism. And technically, you don't even believe in other galaxies (or you shouldn't since you are a YEC) but the force of gravity, gravity wells, black matter, etc are all things which affect the actions of interstellar bodies. And non-living gas turning into living things? Amino acids, the building blocks of protiens, are created when lightning passes through certain gasses. So given the right set of circumstances, and with all the building blocks there- SIMPLE life can be formed. I.E. Bacteria. You are not going to get an eleplant suddenly appearing when lightning hits a cloud of water vaper and oxygen. (and yes, it is rare, that's why there aren't martians, jupitarians, etc.)
oh and also if i came from a rock, what does that mean for morals and law?
Well, technically, you are just star dust. But morals and law are man-made constructs for dealing with a society.
If you take one thing for truth and not the other why is that, if you attack the foundation, what happens to the rest?

Well, I am an atheist, so I am against all of it. But at least the Catholics admitt that it was written by men, for the time period. A collection of stories meant to teach morals, explain creation, and the unknown.

I'd also be so bold as to say that more people follow Lao Tsu or the Buddha than follow Jesus.

I'd say your very right. Though i'd also say it's very unfortunate.

The Big Bang illustrates a more realistic interpretation, based on EVIDENCE (re: not a book of fairy tales, made up by men barely out of caves to explain the world) of creation. The Catholic Church has even agreed that evolution and the Big Bang are probable, and that the bible is an allegory, made up when people didn't know much in the way of science. So the Catholics are with the atheists on this one. The law of conservation of momentum illustrates (if I remember high school physics) that things (like, say, electricity) move along the path of least resistance. Part of the laws of nature, and has nothing to do with creationism. And technically, you don't even believe in other galaxies (or you shouldn't since you are a YEC) but the force of gravity, gravity wells, black matter, etc are all things which affect the actions of interstellar bodies. And non-living gas turning into living things? Amino acids, the building blocks of protiens, are created when lightning passes through certain gasses. So given the right set of circumstances, and with all the building blocks there- SIMPLE life can be formed. I.E. Bacteria. You are not going to get an eleplant suddenly appearing when lightning hits a cloud of water vaper and oxygen. (and yes, it is rare, that's why there aren't martians, jupitarians, etc.)
Well, technically, you are just star dust. But morals and law are man-made constructs for dealing with a society.
Well, I am an atheist, so I am against all of it. But at least the Catholics admitt that it was written by men, for the time period. A collection of stories meant to teach morals, explain creation, and the unknown.

Okay since you seem like one who is pretty smart. I'll level with you.
do you know the odds of the big bang?
one in a hundred billion to the one hundred twenty third power
and thats just the macrouniverse not even the odds of complex biological life

I find the idea that Mao's quotation book, the "Little Red Book", was more influential than the Bible a bit suspect. The only things Mao's book has influenced are the Chinese government (which already seems to be having a hard time proving it is still true to the ideas in that book), some African dictatorships, Pol Pot's government and some rebels in Nepal and India. If you mean in terms of deaths, Mao's book is definitely more influential, since some estimates of deaths under his regime go as high as 80 million, including all of the mass executions, famines (both the deliberately engineered ones as well as those that were a result of poor planning) labour camps and massacres of dissidents. I have no figures for the deaths because of Christian, Muslim or Jewish inquisitions, pogroms and witch burnings, but those may go into the millions.
The Bible, especially the first five books that are accepted by Christianity, Judaism and Islam has influenced billions of people, many not in the west. Even in China, Japan and Korea (President Kim Dae Jung was Catholic) there are large numbers of Christians, Muslims and even some Jews.

Okay since you seem like one who is pretty smart. I'll level with you.
do you know the odds of the big bang?
one in a hundred billion to the one hundred twenty third power
and thats just the macrouniverse not even the odds of complex biological life
What are the odds of a deity then? Negative 7 in zero?

There is evidence for the Big Bang's occurance, there is no such evidence for mystical deity from above.

Okay since you seem like one who is pretty smart. I'll level with you.
do you know the odds of the big bang?
one in a hundred billion to the one hundred twenty third power
and thats just the macrouniverse not even the odds of complex biological life

And you got that figure where? From a church website?

Even were that figure accurate, it might explain why there is only one known universe- it's pretty unlikely. But I'd take that one in a google chance before I bet that an omnicient, omnipotent, invisible parent figure suddenly decided one day to create the universe. And that he would then: inspire some of his creations to write about it, thus triggering all the violence and blood done in "his" name.

If you're not Christian, then the bible is like a novel to you. What is there to hate about it? People don't hate the bible - they hate the people who believe in the bible.

[QUOTE=AllCoolNamesAreTaken]How many times do we have to hear this? They discover new species of dinosaurs EVERY year. Unless you can trace your lineage all the way back to Adam and Eve, your lineage has holes in it too. The only difference is that evolution has a little thing called EVIDENCE supporting it, while bible creationism's only evidence is (suprise suprise) the bible.QUOTE]

You know i respect you. It takes way more faith to belive that ur (i don't pretend to understand all of this religion) bacteria's relitive then to belive that you have a creater.

Now i'm not God so i don't even pretend to understand everything but We do have evidence. Even non Christians the were historians can prove that most of what happend in the bible is true it's been documented. Now i'm not going to force my religion on you becasue i don't think thats fair or right, but if your interested theres a book called the Case for Christ by Lee Stroble, he is an athiest and wrote the book trying to disprove his wife religion. It's a great read and by a lawyer. give it a chance i thought it was interesting.

Before Big Band? Umm, I think the most popular music was Country and some Blues. :p

And that entire post was so incoherent, I can't even begin to answer it seriously.

Your name is farmer. How fitting.

But seriously, I think it was what most non-musical people would generalize as classical music.

The LoTR is a Christian allegory. Like Narnia- though not so blatent.

You knew that right?
They hell? No it wasn't! What part of "As for any inner meaning or 'message', it has in the intention of the author none. It is neither allegorical nor topical,"* didn't you understand?

*(J.R.R. Tolken, Forward to The Lord of the Rings, Ballantine Books Edition)

Your name is farmer. How fitting.

But seriously, I think it was what most non-musical people would generalize as classical music.
Heh. I don't actually like Country or the Blues, I was just stating what I thought was the "big thing" right before "Big Band"/Swing music was popular in the USA. I could be wrong on that, I really don't know a massive amount about early 20th century pop culture and I'm not going to pretend like I do.

YES!! EAT IT!
Please do not use my words in that manner. The Bible has its own problems which your OP fails to mention.

You know i respect you. It takes way more faith to belive that ur (i don't pretend to understand all of this religion) bacteria's relitive then to belive that you have a creater.

It takes faith to make conclusions based on scientific findings now?

Okay since you seem like one who is pretty smart. I'll level with you.
do you know the odds of the big bang?
one in a hundred billion to the one hundred twenty third power
and thats just the macrouniverse not even the odds of complex biological life

Well, I am just going to ignore Omni because he has ignored me several times, but then again it isn't the first time a brainless christian has done so. Anyways, the chance of a benevolent creator randomly deciding to create Earth and all life on it is even greater than the chance of the big bang. Who made this 'God' ? Where are 'His' origins? At least the Big Bang has evidence to support it, so how can you base your beliefs off a lack of evidence? And where did you get those numbers, because I'm sure you didn't pull those out of no where. Most likely one of those mindless pro-christian rant web sites...

And you got that figure where? From a church website?
Even were that figure accurate, it might explain why there is only one known universe- it's pretty unlikely. But I'd take that one in a google chance before I bet that an omnicient, omnipotent, invisible parent figure suddenly decided one day to create the universe. And that he would then: inspire some of his creations to write about it, thus triggering all the violence and blood done in "his" name.

Hmm once again a good point. but i don't belive that it is becasue of God that vilence happens i think it's more the way christianinty has been messed up. I am not a Christain. I am a follower of God. I don't like Christianity any more then you do. But just a thought you are a hypocrite if you belive that becasue of the persentage of people that kill in the name of God, reperisent all of his people. Or him. I find it sad that you dislike the people who clam to be of God enough to not give him a chance. Thats what wrong with our world.

Most books have historical detail to make them seem more realistic.

Hmm once again a good point. but i don't belive that it is becasue of God that vilence happens i think it's more the way christianinty has been messed up. I am not a Christain. I am a follower of God. I don't like Christianity any more then you do. But just a thought you are a hypocrite if you belive that becasue of the persentage of people that kill in the name of God, reperisent all of his people. Or him. I find it sad that you dislike the people who clam to be of God enough to not give him a chance. Thats what wrong with our world.

People that believe in 'God' are wrong with this world.

People that believe in 'God' are wrong with this world.
meaning? like elaborate

Hmm once again a good point. but i don't belive that it is becasue of God that vilence happens i think it's more the way christianinty has been messed up. I am not a Christain. I am a follower of God. I don't like Christianity any more then you do. But just a thought you are a hypocrite if you belive that becasue of the persentage of people that kill in the name of God, reperisent all of his people. Or him. I find it sad that you dislike the people who clam to be of God enough to not give him a chance. Thats what wrong with our world.

But, since your god is omnicient and omnipotent, he would have known that mankind would corrupt his word. So he could have chosen to "inspire" different people to write those stories. Or had them write different stories- ones that would inspire tolerance- not a pathological desire to convert the world, and kill those who won't be converted.

And I wasn't born an atheist, I became one when (among other things) I realized believing in god was no different from worshiping spirits, fire, the elements, etc. All it is- superstitian- an attempt to explain the unknown. In five thousand years mankind will look back on Christianity the way we look back on the greek gods.

I prefer something with evidence- science.

But, since your god is omnicient and omnipotent, he would have known that mankind would corrupt his word. So he could have chosen to "inspire" different people to write those stories. Or had them write different stories- ones that would inspire tolerance- not a pathological to convert the world, and kill those who won't be converted.

And I wasn't born an atheist, I became one when (among other things) I realized believing in god was no different from worshiping spirits, fire, the elements, etc. All it is- superstitian- an attempt to explain the unknown. In five thousand years mankind will look back on Christianity the way we look back on the greek gods.

I prefer something with evidence- science.

War is real, hate is real, pain is real, and it is all becasue of sin. Wether or not the bible was written there would still be these things. The bible, nor God, are responsible for your and my sins. My God could have made us all puppets never sinning but he gave us free choice as much as it pains him. Yes Christians have killed those who wont convert. God has not. God and Christains are not the smae judge them as two seperate things. They are. Christains are unfortuanatly representing God though it should be Jesus representing God. Now if you want to disaprove of Christians go ahead. I might even join you. But God is not Christians

Happy Cloud thingy, Lee Strobel is widely regarded as one of the foremost authorities in extreme & blatant intellectual dishonesty, fabricated interviews & distortion of facts.
His books (A Case for God isn't the only one, sadly) are the standard by which hypocrites, police prosecuters, backstabbers, forgerers, con artists & swindlers everywhere are judged by.

You would do well to read some of the many thorough debunkings of his fabrications.

Happy Cloud thingy, Lee Strobel is widely regarded as one of the foremost authorities in extreme & blatant intellectual dishonesty, fabricated interviews & distortion of facts.
His books (A Case for God isn't the only one, sadly) are the standard by which hypocrites, police prosecuters, backstabbers, forgerers, con artists & swindlers everywhere are judged by.

You would do well to read some of the many thorough debunkings of his fabrications.

so you can belive that the bacteria created you becasue it's science but you can't belive the writings of the non Christain historiains that nailed him to the cross after denying his miricals even though it is history. It's history agaisnt a science that has holes in it. If you can prove to me that the big bang happened i will convert but i don't belive u can. Just as i could never answer every part of my faith that is unproven. Though i don't clame to have a faith that can be proven thats why it's called faith

War is real, hate is real, pain is real, and it is all becasue of sin. Wether or not the bible was written there would still be these things. The bible, nor God, are responsible for your and my sins. My God could have made us all puppets never sinning but he gave us free choice as much as it pains him. Yes Christians have killed those who wont convert. God has not. God and Christains are not the smae judge them as two seperate things. They are. Christains are unfortuanatly representing God though it should be Jesus representing God. Now if you want to disaprove of Christians go ahead. I might even join you. But God is not Christians

"Sin" in a man-made construct designed to inspire guilt. So you have to go to church, give them money, and do what they say. Otherwise- you BURN IN HELL! HAHAHA! And why would god give us instincts, then set the rules for what is a sin in direct opposition to those instincts?

"Original sin" is the BIGGEST crock- saying that an innocent baby is somehow responsible for the crimes of Adam and Eve. The classic Roman "sins of the father" complex- where if your father was a traitor, then you must be too. And how could Mary be born without it then? Sounds like a Christian theologian got an F in logic.

So you say to not hold god accountable for christians? Ok, lets hold him accountable for himself then- in his "truthful and accurate" actions in the bible. Who killed all the innocent firstborn sons of Egypt? Who destroyed two entire cities just because he didn't like homosexuals? Who tortured and tormented Job, just to win a bet? Talk about a sadistic bastard- if your god is real- he's a little kid with a magnifying glass, and we're a bunch of ants.

so you can belive that the bacteria created you becasue it's science but you can't belive the writings of the non Christain historiains that nailed him to the cross after denying his miricals even though it is history. It's history agaisnt a science that has holes in it. If you can prove to me that the big bang happened i will convert but i don't belive u can. Just as i could never answer every part of my faith that is unproven. Though i don't clame to have a faith that can be proven thats why it's called faith

*sigh*

Bacteria didn't create anyone. Over millions and millions of years, life has evolved to the point it is today, from bacteria.

Eventually, when it gets enough food, something grows. It replicates. Over generations, it mutates, and less desirable traits are weeded out. More specialized and complex organisms develop from the better off of these mutations. Eventually we get to multi-celled organisms like an amoeba. The process continues. Over many many millions of years, higher species of life develop. Fish. Then lizards. Birds. Small furry things like squirrels. They get bigger. More complex. Cats. Dogs. Apes. Now, one of the smarter versions of these apes stands upright. Learns to use rocks and sticks as tools. Eventually, we have cavemen.

Now, you don't have history in your corner like you think you do. Many criminals were crucifed in ancient times. Even if you had independant, accurate, historical writings proving Jesus existed- that doesn't make him the son of god. Just one of the thousands of people who nowadays we put into nut houses. His miracles? David Copperfield made the statue of liberty disappear didn't he? That guy on the Sci-fi channel reads peoples minds and communes with their dead relatives, right?

"Sin" in a man-made construct designed to inspire guilt. So you have to go to church, give them money, and do what they say. Otherwise- you BURN IN HELL! HAHAHA! And why would god give us instincts, then set the rules for what is a sin in direct opposition to those instincts?

"Original sin" is the BIGGEST crock- saying that an innocent baby is somehow responsible for the crimes of Adam and Eve. The classic Roman "sins of the father" complex- where if your father was a traitor, then you must be too. And how could Mary be born without it then? Sounds like a Christian theologian got an F in logic.


Do the rules God set make sence? they do it's simple logic. Don't kill (duh). Don't lie (what has lieing ever solved it just hurts people) don't mess around on your wife or husband (duh cuz when has that ever ended up in somthing good) don't steal ( that hurts people and gets you in trouble) ect. it's simple . The rules arn't to make your life less fun it's to keep u safe and commen sence.

Now you got a point with the church stuff. So don't go to church and giving them your money isn't gonna get ur sins forgiven. but were not talking about church were talking abut God church (at least churhc in all your minds) is unrealated.

Instincts dude i'd hope it's not in your instincts to care. He didn't give u instincts he gave u free choice thats different

[/QUOTE]So you say to not hold god accountable for christians? Ok, lets hold him accountable for himself then- in his "truthful and accurate" actions in the bible. Who killed all the innocent firstborn sons of Egypt? Who destroyed two entire cities just because he didn't like homosexuals? Who tortured and tormented Job, just to win a bet? Talk about a sadistic bastard- if your god is real- he's a little kid with a magnifying glass, and we're a bunch of ants.[/QUOTE]
Wow i'm impressed. now your making this hard. The first born sons of Egypt weren't innocent first of all. They were sinfull but they were also taken to a better place to be spared the horrids of a ruined Egypt The righteous are taken to be spared for evil. Those who walk upright enter into pease; they find rest in death. Isaiah 57:1-3 They were taken to be spared from the plages that were brought on to save God's people.

The gay one is hard. One becasue thats the sin i struggle with. Yes i'm not going to try and pretend i'm perfect it's somthing i struggel with but i do no that it is a sin and thats why he destryed the citys to spare the rightous from evil. He did offer them a chance to repent.

He did nothing to Job the devil torchered Job. Somtimes it is through struggel that we learn how much we have. Job had God and that was all he needed. The devil put him through all that and he still belived. what's your excuse? Has God put you through more then that? Then why don't you belive?

so you can belive that the bacteria created you becasue it's science but you can't belive the writings of the non Christain historiains that nailed him to the cross after denying his miricals even though it is history. It's history agaisnt a science that has holes in it. If you can prove to me that the big bang happened i will convert but i don't belive u can. Just as i could never answer every part of my faith that is unproven. Though i don't clame to have a faith that can be proven thats why it's called faith
If you can prove God exists, I'll convert to whatever you want. But you can't. At least the Big Bang has evidence supporting the idea beyond saying "j00 cant prove it so it cant be true!!!11!!ONE!"

*sigh*

Bacteria didn't create anyone. Over millions and millions of years, life has evolved to the point it is today, from bacteria.

Eventually, when it gets enough food, something grows. It replicates. Over generations, it mutates, and less desirable traits are weeded out. More specialized and complex organisms develop from the better off of these mutations. Eventually we get to multi-celled organisms like an amoeba. The process continues. Over many many millions of years, higher species of life develop. Fish. Then lizards. Birds. Small furry things like squirrels. They get bigger. More complex. Cats. Dogs. Apes. Now, one of the smarter versions of these apes stands upright. Learns to use rocks and sticks as tools. Eventually, we have cavemen.

Now, you don't have history in your corner like you think you do. Many criminals were crucifed in ancient times. Even if you had independant, accurate, historical writings proving Jesus existed- that doesn't make him the son of god. Just one of the thousands of people who nowadays we put into nut houses. His miracles? David Copperfield made the statue of liberty disappear didn't he? That guy on the Sci-fi channel reads peoples minds and communes with their dead relatives, right?

So how come we haven't evolved? Sorry i'm not to great with evolution i don't know all the chains.

Magic is a trick. Okay i can show u how to make a ball disapear, but it's a trick. Miricals is a different word with a whole differeent meaning. No the guy on the sci-fi chanel is just odd.

where do athests go after they die? like what do u belive happens after death? cuz i belive tis nothing right? well how can you live with no hope like that? isn't it sad?

Has God put you through more then that? Then why don't you belive?
Let me ask you this then, according to the Bible belief in Christ, confessing your sins and asking forgiveness is the ONLY way to enter Heaven (None shall come to the Father except through me). The Chuch teaches that those who do not do so shall be thrown into Hell come judgement day where the Lord shall come to judge the quick and dead, correct?

So what about those who never heard of Jesus? I currently live in a very non-Christian land (3% of the population is Christian, if that). Many will have never heard of Him, and even if half the planet is Christian, half isn't and many have not heard.

So... is that fair that for lack of opertunity that they will be tossed into eternal torment?

If you can prove God exists, I'll convert to whatever you want. But you can't. At least the Big Bang has evidence supporting the idea beyond saying "j00 cant prove it so it cant be true!!!11!!ONE!"

Well u can't prove yours eather so it can't be true!!!11!!ONE!

The big bang has what in it's favor? Everytime i've seen somthing thats oh whats the word morph or whatever u like to call it. It's been a frog with three eyes or a dog with only two legs a snake with two heads. never has it been anything good.

I've got one, ironic, passage from the Bible that's stuck to me over the years:

As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

Let me ask you this then, according to the Bible belief in Christ, confessing your sins and asking forgiveness is the ONLY way to enter Heaven (None shall come to the Father except through me). The Chuch teaches that those who do not do so shall be thrown into Hell come judgement day where the Lord shall come to judge the quick and dead, correct?

u know for people that don't beilve u sure know a lot about the bible and god? i think thats kinda odd.

[/QUOTE]So what about those who never heard of Jesus? I currently live in a very non-Christian land (3% of the population is Christian, if that). Many will have never heard of Him, and even if half the planet is Christian, half isn't and many have not heard.

So... is that fair that for lack of opertunity that they will be tossed into eternal torment?[/QUOTE]

I often struggle with that question myself. I belive that since the bible says that those who are two insient to know the truth shall be saved, correct? Most interprate that as those who are to young but I think it's also those who have never had the chance to hear the good news.

I've got one, ironic, passage from the Bible that's stuck to me over the years:

true though it goes on to say that "what the law says applys to those under it. so you will not find rightousness in the law only sin.

but a rightousness through God has been made known. It come through faith in Jesus Christ."
somtimes if u take things out of context they hold a different meaning

so you can belive that the bacteria created you becasue it's science but you can't belive the writings of the non Christain historiains that nailed him to the cross after denying his miricals even though it is history. It's history agaisnt a science that has holes in it. If you can prove to me that the big bang happened i will convert but i don't belive u can. Just as i could never answer every part of my faith that is unproven. Though i don't clame to have a faith that can be proven thats why it's called faith
"Science" isn't some imagined explanation of life, the universe & everything.

It's a collection of objective methodologies for eliminating possibilities, and in the process zeroing in on probable mechanisms, able to explain observed phenomena.

If religion is looking at the sky & going "Whoa! Blue! Pretty! Bet there's purose there", science is trying to figure out what makes the sky look blue, in a systematic, provable manner (which we have accomplished, by the way).

Strobel isn't the lord of integrity you want him to be. At his best, he does nothing but put together a number of shakey facts, claim there's a relationship between them & formulate a hypothesis on that.
At his worst, he distorts & misrepresents interviews, discoveries & facts, to support his conclusions. That isn't how one examines history or formulate hypothesis. You can't make a conclusion, find evidence you hope supports it & then deny everything else. Doing that is intellectual dishonesty - or being a damn lier, in plain english.

Yes people got nailed to crosses. Yes people had names like Jesus (or whatever the original name was, I forget). Yes the Roman empire existed. Yes, the Jewish peoples existed.

People with my name exist today. I'm an anarchist. Anarchists are often imprisoned. If we apply Strobel'esque deduction, I can only be a political prisoner - which I assure you I am not.

Science can demonstrate how & why it is possible for life to have started on this planet, without supernatural intervention.
Casual everyday observation of reality proves beyond any doubt, that the process of evolution - how life evolves - is taking place.

The combination of these two unrelated branches of science can explain the origin of mankind - but that doesn't mean it happened that way. All it means is that it is possible that it happened that way.

Since we have no factual understanding of any other explanation for life & it's present state, it is irrational to claim it happened any other way.

In your corner, you have one lying propagandist. In mine, I have not only the overwhelming majority of the scientific community, but the Catrholic Church & a multitude of other Christian Churches as well. If you're going to appeal to authority, you were born in the wrong age.

EDIT: The funny thing is that even if you accept abiogenesis, the end result is still that we're made of mud. Why then, do you rally against it?

In One Book.Has changed the face of the earth, Of Course you all know I'm talking about the Bible.

Now wait, befor you jump and post a negative relpy,just look at this:...<snip>

Much the same can be said about the Bhagavad Gita (a Hindu holy book). And at 4000 to 5000 years old, it's even older than the Bilbe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhagavad_Gita

So how come we haven't evolved? Sorry i'm not to great with evolution i don't know all the chains.

Magic is a trick. Okay i can show u how to make a ball disapear, but it's a trick. Miricals is a different word with a whole differeent meaning. No the guy on the sci-fi chanel is just odd.

where do athests go after they die? like what do u belive happens after death? cuz i belive tis nothing right? well how can you live with no hope like that? isn't it sad?

After we die, all of us, even Christians, our brain turns off and our consciousness ceases to exist. That's it. We may halluconate during this process, but that doesn't change the reality of it.

As for our bodies, they rot. This may sound depressing, however it is a reality that needs to be accepted. Just because you really wish something cool like an afterlife would happen, doesn't make it so. Ultimately it doesn't matter, because after it happens I won't care that it has happened.

"Science" isn't some imagined explanation of life, the universe & everything.

It's a collection of objective methodologies for eliminating possibilities, and in the process zeroing in on probable mechanisms, able to explain observed phenomena.

If religion is looking at the sky & going "Whoa! Blue! Pretty! Bet there's purose there", science is trying to figure out what makes the sky look blue, in a systematic, provable manner (which we have accomplished, by the way).

No religion is looking at the sky and saying my God made that. Wow it's amazing. And if your into scince then it's wow i wonder what makes it blue and then figuring it out. Christainity isn't living in the dark like cavemen. Enstien said that the more he studied the sky the more he belived in a creator. And he was A SCIENTEST! NO WAY! THATS CRAZY!

Strobel isn't the lord of integrity you want him to be. At his best, he does nothing but put together a number of shakey facts, claim there's a relationship between them & formulate a hypothesis on that.
At his worst, he distorts & misrepresents interviews, discoveries & facts, to support his conclusions. That isn't how one examines history or formulate hypothesis. You can't make a conclusion, find evidence you hope supports it & then deny everything else. Doing that is intellectual dishonesty - or being a damn lier, in plain english.[/QUOTE]

Oh but he didn't in fact he set out trying to prove that there was no case as you would have learned at the begining of the book had you really read it with an open mind insteed of just another piece of **** some idiot Christain wrote. And i don't clame that he is the "lord of integrity" I only say that it's a great read and he's a pretty good lawyer.

[/QUOTE]Yes people got nailed to crosses. Yes people had names like Jesus (or whatever the original name was, I forget). Yes the Roman empire existed. Yes, the Jewish peoples existed.

People with my name exist today. I'm an anarchist. Anarchists are often imprisoned. If we apply Strobel'esque deduction, I can only be a political prisoner - which I assure you I am not.

Science can demonstrate how & why it is possible for life to have started on this planet, without supernatural intervention.
Casual everyday observation of reality proves beyond any doubt, that the process of evolution - how life evolves - is taking place. [/QUOTE]

Realy then how come I haven't evolved? I'm just as bad of a speller as my dad and grandma and her mother before her.

[/QUOTE] The combination of these two unrelated branches of science can explain the origin of mankind - but that doesn't mean it happened that way. All it means is that it is possible that it happened that way.

Since we have no factual understanding of any other explanation for life & it's present state, it is irrational to claim it happened any other way.

In your corner, you have one lying propagandist. In mine, I have not only the overwhelming majority of the scientific community, but the Catrholic Church & a multitude of other Christian Churches as well. If you're going to appeal to authority, you were born in the wrong age.[/QUOTE]

A million people can belive the same lie but that does not make it the truth. it is still a lie

[/QUOTE]EDIT: The funny thing is that even if you accept abiogenesis, the end result is still that we're made of mud. Why then, do you rally against it?[/QUOTE]

Oh I don't say that some amout of Evolution didn't happen. It's quite possible that it has. My God's big enough to use evolution to create the world. All I say is that there is a God and he is real and there waiting for you. The chruch's in "your corner" are really in mine they belive that God used evoultion not that it was all evolution.

So how come we haven't evolved?

We have and still are. Check out these tow links about recent (first link about only a few hundred years, second link about several thousand years) human evolution.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4643312.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4222460.stm

Every time a person is born with six fingers, that is evolution at work. Webbed toes is evolution at work. Different skin colors is evolution at work. Every thing that makes you different from me and me different from Tony Blair is evolution at work.

After we die, all of us, even Christians, our brain turns off and our consciousness ceases to exist. That's it. We may halluconate during this process, but that doesn't change the reality of it.

As for our bodies, they rot. This may sound depressing, however it is a reality that needs to be accepted. Just because you really wish something cool like an afterlife would happen, doesn't make it so. Ultimately it doesn't matter, because after it happens I won't care that it has happened.

I'm not stupid I know bodies rot after they die. It's not an afterlife It's and eternaty. U have one to just not the smae one as me. Unfortunatly. But how does that affect u when people die i mean becasue i have faith i know that i will see the people again adn then can celibrate there life and there death but you have nothing.

We have and still are. Check out these tow links about recent (first link about only a few hundred years, second link about several thousand years) human evolution.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4643312.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4222460.stm

Every time a person is born with six fingers, that is evolution at work. Webbed toes is evolution at work. Different skin colors is evolution at work. Every thing that makes you different from me and me different from Tony Blair is evolution at work.

how is six fingers good like that just makes them a freak to socity and a lab rat for your science.

Much the same can be said about the Bhagavad Gita (a Hindu holy book). And at 4000 to 5000 years old, it's even older than the Bilbe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhagavad_Gita

so i take it your hindu then?
well then heres what i know about ur religion
Hinduism
-the universe is simply and extension of a force called Brahman
-Brahman is eternal so the universe is eternal
First problem
How does that match up with what the astronomers say
All evidence points to a beginning about 15 billion years ago
(Is the number just wrong?)
Now here’s a bit for you science brains out there: In a closed system everything will eventually come to a stop. So if the universe is eternal then why are there new galaxies and stars forming?
-Braham is amoral (nothing is right or wrong)
Second problem
Each of our societies has complex moral codes
What makes things right or wrong?
We do
But if we are and extension of Braham we are amoral
-Personality is an illusion
Third problem
What we value most about ourselves is an illusion
How did and impersonal force bring forth such intricate and different beings
feel free to correct

The gay one is hard. One becasue thats the sin i struggle with.

There are many, many gay Christians out there. And almost any city of any size has at least one gay church. Here a couple of links I hope you will find helpful in coming to terms with both your faith and sexuality. It is possible to be both gay and Christian.

http://www.gaybygod.org/
http://www.cathedralofhope.com/homosexuality/index.php

so i take it your hindu then?

Nope. I'm agnostic. But I'm familar with several religions.

There are many, many gay Christians out there. And almost any city of any size has at least one gay church. Here a couple of links I hope you will find helpful in coming to terms with both your faith and sexuality. It is possible to be both gay and Christian.

http://www.gaybygod.org/
http://www.cathedralofhope.com/homosexuality/index.php

thanks it's nice to think that event though we take oppisate sides of this debate u'd still be willing to do somthing like that that's more then i get from some of the people in the chruch i used to go to. But i'm not Christian, like to belive in God but i don't like that word or what it's come to stand for. i'm just a christ follower and take everything from the bible not from a preacher or church and the bible clearly says "do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detesable." Leviticus 18:22

Nope. I'm agnostic. But I'm familar with several religions.

what is agnostic? i'm rather curious

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hail satan, getile rule ends soon.

how is six fingers good like that just makes them a freak to socity and a lab rat for your science.

Not all mutations are good and serve a function. Those tend to dissapear as those individuals generally don't have many chances to mate and spread their genes. But mutations that are good and serve as some sort of biological advantage get passed on as those individuals tend to have many offspring. And over thousands of years more and more mutations add up (some good some not so) eventually creating a new species. It is a very slow process.

Now I know this is the book with the most violence in human history(OT), but it is also the book with the most love, and teachings in it.(NT)

Now it may not be the MOST violent part of history, but a discription of events that happened.

I believe that whether a person believes in Christianity (or Judaism) or not, that all people should recognize the influence this book has had. As a historical reference to the past, it is awesome. I think they should add the dark ages into it too (as I believe the bible shoudl be a continuing story of events of the religion)

___666___
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666666666
666666666
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hail satan, getile rule ends soon.

thats agnostic? So basicaly your the devils helper in a way. Wow thats um well interesting. Kinda creepy doesn't he scare u. I mean i had a friend who's possesed and well the devil is an awful scary person in my mind

No. Agnostic is the belief that its impossible to determine whether a god (or other supreme entity) exists. I am agnostic as well, and I'd consider it to be a "polite atheism".

EDIT: Oh, and by the way Cloud, your spelling is horrendous, something to work on, just a friendly tip though.

EDIT AGAIN: Oh, and another by the way, "Satan" or "the Devil" is simply a tool the Church has used to inspire fear among its followers, something to blame for the source of "sin" (which is a crock as well)

No. Agnostic is the belief that its impossible to determine whether a god (or other supreme entity) exists. I am agnostic as well, and I'd consider it to be a "polite atheism".

Ahhh okay sorry then. Well thats refreshing then. A polite Atheism, wow didn't actualy know that was possible from the people i've been talking with most the night. Well thats cool

ya i know i can't spell at all

what is agnostic? i'm rather curious

Depends on who you ask, really.

In my case, it means that I see no proof of any higher power. However, that doesn't mean it is impossible (though I would need real physical proof). I see it as unknowable one way or the other, so I don't worry over it.

A millitant agnostic = "I don't know, and neither do you damn it!" :p

EDIT AGAIN: Oh, and another by the way, "Satan" or "the Devil" is simply a tool the Church has used to inspire fear among its followers, something to blame for the source of "sin" (which is a crock as well)[/QUOTE]

No I've seen it the devil is real and it's not somthing to be messed with besides i'm not with the church I'm with the bible and the devil is real as is sin or how do u explain the wrong

ya i know i can't spell at all

No I've seen it the devil is real and it's not somthing to be messed with besides i'm not with the church I'm with the bible and the devil is real as is sin or how do u explain the wrong

On a side note of the spelling: Honestly, thats something that will improve your arguements and improve your professionalism, and how seriously people take you. Some people will think you know nothing, even though you do, simply because you don't spell that well. :)

And sin is a man-made definition of "evil" that has come from the actions of people. Of course, "evil" (i.e. "wrong") is completely subjective. The only reason we all share similar ideas of wrong is because of society's influence on us, which helps us determine what is deemed "bad" or "evil" or "wrong". Its all perception of an individual, which has been altered, or even molded, from the person's parents, upbringing, and the society the person lives in.

satan is an idea used to combat the sickness that is christianity.

thanks it's nice to think that event though we take oppisate sides of this debate u'd still be willing to do somthing like that that's more then i get from some of the people in the chruch i used to go to. But i'm not Christian, like to belive in God but i don't like that word or what it's come to stand for. i'm just a christ follower and take everything from the bible not from a preacher or church and the bible clearly says "do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detesable." Leviticus 18:22

Well, I think it is important to help young gay people who are having trouble reconciling who they are with their faith. Many years ago a good friend of mine killed himself at 16 because he couldn't come to terms with being gay and Christian. Just know that if you are gay, it won't simply go away because you pray hard enough. It is who you are and who you will always be, like it or not. There are many religions and faiths that embrace their gay members. Even quite a few Christian ones. They believe that God made gay people for a reason and He wouldn't create anything bad.

Do your research. I hope you make peace with yourself one day. Best of luck.

satan is an idea used to combat the sickness that is christianity.

Your the one that said hail satan

On a side note of the spelling: Honestly, thats something that will improve your arguements and improve your professionalism, and how seriously people take you. Some people will think you know nothing, even though you do, simply because you don't spell that well. :)

And sin is a man-made definition of "evil" that has come from the actions of people. Of course, "evil" (i.e. "wrong") is completely subjective. The only reason we all share similar ideas of wrong is because of society's influence on us, which helps us determine what is deemed "bad" or "evil" or "wrong". Its all perception of an individual, which has been altered, or even molded, from the person's parents, upbringing, and the society the person lives in.

So your saying that killing somone is not wrong?

side note: ya i know my spelling makes me look dumb but i cloud spend hours with a dictonary or spell check and i wont get any better.

Well, I think it is important to help young gay people who are having trouble reconciling who they are with their faith. Many years ago a good friend of mine killed himself at 16 because he couldn't come to terms with being gay and Christian. Just know that if you are gay, it won't simply go away because you pray hard enough. It is who you are and who you will always be, like it or not. There are many religions and faiths that embrace their gay members. Even quite a few Christian ones. They believe that God made gay people for a reason and He wouldn't create anything bad.

Do your research. I hope you make peace with yourself one day. Best of luck.

thanks but it's better to just keep praying, I would never be aloud back in my home or with any of the people i consider friends if they new. and for the last time I'm not Christian. i'm just religious

The only reason we all share similar ideas of wrong is because of society's influence on us, which helps us determine what is deemed "bad" or "evil" or "wrong". Its all perception of an individual, which has been altered, or even molded, from the person's parents, upbringing, and the society the person lives in.

Not entirely. Many "universal morals" are instinct. As a social species, we evolved to cooperate and help each other out. That would include things like not killing or stealing. Heres an interesting article on the subject.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4766490.stm

So your saying that killing somone is not wrong?

side note: ya i know my spelling makes me look dumb but i cloud spend hours with a dictonary or spell check and i wont get any better.

I'm not saying killing someone isn't wrong. I believe its wrong. But that doesn't make it wrong for everybody. I think its wrong because I was brought up in a society that outlaws killing people, and with parents that care about others. However, just because I think its wrong doesn't make it wrong for someone else. People have to determine these things for themselves, based on their own thoughts and their own surroundings.
Sometimes killing is necessary for survival, and survival is animal instinct (humans are animals too). Therefore, how can killing in that circumstance be wrong? Say a criminal, someone "wrong", aims a gun at you. You have a gun too, and are able to kill to survive. Are you justified in using you ability to kill, to perhaps even stop what is "wrong"? Or is it "right" if you were to die, allowing the "wrong" to continue.

And thats cool, didn't mean to harass you about it or anything, was just mentioning it.

Not entirely. Many "universal morals" are instinct. As a social species, we evolved to cooperate and help each other out. That would include things like not killing or stealing. Heres an interesting article on the subject.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4766490.stm

wow that was interesting. It's weird to think that we'd be realated to monkeys doesn't that seem insulting

Do the rules God set make sence? they do it's simple logic. Don't kill (duh). Don't lie (what has lieing ever solved it just hurts people) don't mess around on your wife or husband (duh cuz when has that ever ended up in somthing good) don't steal ( that hurts people and gets you in trouble) ect. it's simple . The rules arn't to make your life less fun it's to keep u safe and commen sence.


In no way shape or form did "God" make up these rules. This is christian propaganda that without christanity the world would be a terribly place fully of sodomy, theft, and murder.

Have you ever heard of Hummarabi? I may have been a little off on the spelling, but he was one of the first leaders in the first civilization to ever have been formed. A civilization in Mesopotamia called Summeria. Why I bring this up, is because the Hummarabi Code of Law was the first ever documented list of laws ever made. They were made nearly 3000 years before Christianity popped up, and even about a thousand years before Judaism or Islam becam existent. All of these things were on it and they were all given a consquence.

Most of these punishments were very eye for an eye, but that was the norm for the time. For example, if you killed someone, you'd be killed. If you robbed someone, your fingers would be cut off. Even adultery was a crime, with you and the one you commited it with punished by beating or drowning. In fact, even incest was a crime in this code of law. That is the one thing that pisses me off the most about the religious people and their beliefs of god. most of them think that without religion, we'd be killing eachother. But that is utterly and blatantly a lie.

I'm not stupid I know bodies rot after they die. It's not an afterlife It's and eternaty. U have one to just not the smae one as me. Unfortunatly. But how does that affect u when people die i mean becasue i have faith i know that i will see the people again adn then can celibrate there life and there death but you have nothing.

You have the same nothing, you just pretend it away. I've never been particularily bothered by dying. I mourn and come to grips with it. Death is little different then someone otherwise leaving your life, it's something that happens. You have happy memories, hopefully.

Not entirely. Many "universal morals" are instinct. As a social species, we evolved to cooperate and help each other out. That would include things like not killing or stealing. Heres an interesting article on the subject.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4766490.stm


I'm a little skeptical of that article. They said children as young as 18 months..

"The results were astonishing because these children are so young - they still wear diapers and are barely able to use language, but they already show helping behaviour," said Felix Warneken.

Just because they can't use language doesn't mean they can't understand emotions and feelings, as well as body expressions. I'm not an expert, but I'll just take that knowledge with a grain of salt. Good find though.

thanks but it's better to just keep praying, I would never be aloud back in my home or with any of the people i consider friends if they new. and for the last time I'm not Christian. i'm just religious

You'd be suprised. I worried about that too, but it didn't happen. People make a lot of noise about what they will do if such and such happens. But it almost never happens the way they say it will. You accept those you love unconditionally. No ifs, ands, or buts. And if they can't accept you for who you are, they don't really love you and you need to be rid of people like that.

That said, If you are under age, don't make waves untill you are old enough to live on your own. But once you are old enough to take care of yourself, you owe it to yourself and those around you to be honest.

I'm headed off to bed now. If you want to talk more about this later, feel free to TG me. 'Night.

I'm not saying killing someone isn't wrong. I believe its wrong. But that doesn't make it wrong for everybody. I think its wrong because I was brought up in a society that outlaws killing people, and with parents that care about others. However, just because I think its wrong doesn't make it wrong for someone else. People have to determine these things for themselves, based on their own thoughts and their own surroundings.
Sometimes killing is necessary for survival, and survival is animal instinct (humans are animals too). Therefore, how can killing in that circumstance be wrong? Say a criminal, someone "wrong", aims a gun at you. You have a gun too, and are able to kill to survive. Are you justified in using you ability to kill, to perhaps even stop what is "wrong"? Or is it "right" if you were to die, allowing the "wrong" to continue.

And thats cool, didn't mean to harass you about it or anything, was just mentioning it.

I live in canada nobody here has guns not even our military. Well we have 4 guys one gun. but lets say, then no ur still not justified. If u kill them then your no better and it's still wrong. Ya i would very much like to pull the tigger but i don't that that is what my religion stands for and the guilt i would feel for the rest of my life. But if everyone had the smae right and wrong wouldn't that make things better like no war killing or anything.

and don't worry it wasn't harassing or anything

I live in canada nobody here has guns not even our military. Well we have 4 guys one gun. but lets say, then no ur still not justified. If u kill them then your no better and it's still wrong. Ya i would very much like to pull the tigger but i don't that that is what my religion stands for and the guilt i would feel for the rest of my life. But if everyone had the smae right and wrong wouldn't that make things better like no war killing or anything.



So, what if pulling the trigger and killing the "wrong person", the criminal, would stop the criminal from not only commiting a "wrong" by killing you, but killing other victims as well? What if accepting the "wrong" of killing him meant that you could save other people from the same fate? Would that still be "wrong"? In my book, it makes it right. It invokes forgiveness. Yours maybe different.

BUT, anyway, its like 1:40 am, I'm going to bed.

In no way shape or form did "God" make up these rules. This is christian propaganda that without christanity the world would be a terribly place fully of sodomy, theft, and murder.

Have you ever heard of Hummarabi? I may have been a little off on the spelling, but he was one of the first leaders in the first civilization to ever have been formed. A civilization in Mesopotamia called Summeria. Why I bring this up, is because the Hummarabi Code of Law was the first ever documented list of laws ever made. They were made nearly 3000 years before Christianity popped up, and even about a thousand years before Judaism or Islam becam existent. All of these things were on it and they were all given a consquence.

Most of these punishments were very eye for an eye, but that was the norm for the time. For example, if you killed someone, you'd be killed. If you robbed someone, your fingers would be cut off. Even adultery was a crime, with you and the one you commited it with punished by beating or drowning. In fact, even incest was a crime in this code of law. That is the one thing that pisses me off the most about the religious people and their beliefs of god. most of them think that without religion, we'd be killing eachother. But that is utterly and blatantly a lie.

I agree completely. Without religion we would have no chance to repent for our killing each other and no hope for a life without killing. We have religion and are still killing i agree

[QUOTE=Lordeah]
That's because evolution is about the factual and can be tested. QUOTE]

science is that which is observable, repeatable, and measurable, but we haven't observed one species change into another. thus evolution still cannot be verified.

[QUOTE=Lordeah]
That's because evolution is about the factual and can be tested. QUOTE]

science is that which is observable, repeatable, and measurable, but we haven't observed one species change into another. thus evolution still cannot be verified.

True witch is why i think that untill you can completely prove that a therry with such a small persentage of possibility should be proven before it is even relised

That's because evolution is about the factual and can be tested.

science is that which is observable, repeatable, and measurable, but we haven't observed one species change into another. thus evolution still cannot be verified.

Hate to bust your bubble...but we have. By no means was it like a mouse becoming a kanaroo, but we've seen many protists and bacteria mutate and evolve to their surroundings into completely new species. It's not some impossibly small percentage that this can happen, it's more like 1/2. A chromosome either mutates or it doesn't. It is pretty much 50/50. Although, in most bigger animals the 50 for not mutating seems to be bigger.

Okay since you seem like one who is pretty smart. I'll level with you.
do you know the odds of the big bang?
one in a hundred billion to the one hundred twenty third power
and thats just the macrouniverse not even the odds of complex biological life

good for us it only had to happen once and had all of forever to do it. ^^

So how come we haven't evolved? Sorry i'm not to great with evolution i don't know all the chains.

Magic is a trick. Okay i can show u how to make a ball disapear, but it's a trick. Miricals is a different word with a whole differeent meaning. No the guy on the sci-fi chanel is just odd.

where do athests go after they die? like what do u belive happens after death? cuz i belive tis nothing right? well how can you live with no hope like that? isn't it sad?

When brain function stops you're pretty much mulch. It matters little what you believe before that. That, for me, is the best reason to enjoy your life. There is nothing else.

Believing something doesn't make it true. No matter how many people might believe they can fly, one quick jump off a building will instantly clear up that misconception.

u know for people that don't beilve u sure know a lot about the bible and god? i think thats kinda odd.


I've read the bible all the way though more than once, knowing the bible inside and out doesn't make you any more likely to become christian. We're sorta sure that certain historical kings portrayed in it probably exist. Proof of anyone from the actual "time of christ" has yet to come apparent. Lies, legend, myth, and tall tales are what it is mostly comprised of, and for that, why not just read Grimm's faerie tales? More entertaining.

I live in canada nobody here has guns not even our military. Well we have 4 guys one gun. but lets say, then no ur still not justified. If u kill them then your no better and it's still wrong. Ya i would very much like to pull the tigger but i don't that that is what my religion stands for and the guilt i would feel for the rest of my life. But if everyone had the smae right and wrong wouldn't that make things better like no war killing or anything.

and don't worry it wasn't harassing or anything


In Canada, there are currently at least seven million firearms, including as many as 1.2 million handguns, for an overall rate of about 241 per 100,000 population. The national household ownership rate is assessed to be approximately 26 percent, based on survey research. The precise number of firearms in Canada is difficult to determine and regular data collection is needed to assess patterns in ownership. Over time, the Universal Firearm Registration Regime may provide a better basis for measuring the stock of legally owned firearms.

A recent comparison of western countries found that 48 percent of U.S. households owned at least one firearm. Canada's rate was in the mid-range of countries, at 22 percent.

Canadians own a significant number of guns. And our army uses C7/M16s, don't say such irrational things.

Realy then how come I haven't evolved? I'm just as bad of a speller as my dad and grandma and her mother before her.


well, first off, you don't evolve. Evolution is something that happens with offspring or not, based on mutation. Why aren't you a better speller than your grandfather? Because no one held a gun to your father's head before you were born and demand he have a spelling bee with deadly consequences. Obviously, there haven't been deadly consquences in your family for not being able to spell well. There was no selective pressure. If spelling didn't keep him from finding a mate, one way or another, and your father's father, and his father, etc, then.. well, once you've had babies and brought them up enough that they can find a mate of their own, evolution no longer cares about you.

And evolution isn't about becoming better, anyway. We're not on a path to godhood. We're just moving down the line, generation to generation, based on what allows us to have children best. It's driven by mutation, and mutations are usually bad or neutral. The neutral ones get ignored, the bad ones get weeded out, and generation to generation, the best traits are passed down.

For instance, suppose that someone had a mutation that allowed them to live twice as long, be much stronger, tougher, and more integent. Sounds like evolution would like that. But.. they've changed so much that they can't breed with people anymore. A one generation thing that looks good on paper, but would never be passed on. You have to be able to breed to pass on a trait. On the other hand, someone has a gene that makes them 3 times more likely to have twins, and in the modern era, there's really no major risk of complications due to that.. but at a cost of 20 IQ points. Well, there would be slight selective pressure there, and long as she (or he) could find someone to breed with.

Finding someone to breed with... usually isn't too hard. ^^

there would be a slight selective pressure for the person who could produce more children (presuming she, and future generations did) even though it might mean a loss of some intelegence.)

In the end, your arguements about natural selection don't make sense because you don't seem to understand natural selection.

So much for sleep. So I thought I'd come back for a miniute and reply to this.

science is that which is observable, repeatable, and measurable, but we haven't observed one species change into another. thus evolution still cannot be verified.

Wrong. We have observed new species evolving.

We observed a new species of mosquito evolve in London over the last 100 years. It evolved to survive in the London subway tunnels and is now a new and seperate species of mosquito.

http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1046/j.1365-2540.1999.00412.x

More info on other new species to be found here.

http://whyfiles.org/shorties/085fast_evolution/

And here.

http://talkorigins.org/faqs/speciation.html

I live in canada nobody here has guns not even our military. Well we have 4 guys one gun. but lets say, then no ur still not justified. If u kill them then your no better and it's still wrong. Ya i would very much like to pull the tigger but i don't that that is what my religion stands for and the guilt i would feel for the rest of my life. But if everyone had the smae right and wrong wouldn't that make things better like no war killing or anything.

and don't worry it wasn't harassing or anything

Canada has some of the best snipers in the world. Part of that is their choice of a most excelent Riffle.

wow that was interesting. It's weird to think that we'd be realated to monkeys doesn't that seem insulting

Not at all. Now, if some one said I was a monkey, that would be a different kettle of fish. And I'm not exactly proud of all of my relatives anyway. :p

I'm a little skeptical of that article. They said children as young as 18 months..

"The results were astonishing because these children are so young - they still wear diapers and are barely able to use language, but they already show helping behaviour," said Felix Warneken.

Just because they can't use language doesn't mean they can't understand emotions and feelings, as well as body expressions. I'm not an expert, but I'll just take that knowledge with a grain of salt. Good find though.

But there is a good deal of research besides this that points to cooperation being instinctual in social species. In some circumstances, evolution would favor members of social species that help eachother to prosper over those who don't.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/702754.stm

Not at all. Now, if some one said I was a monkey, that would be a different kettle of fish. And I'm not exactly proud of all of my relatives anyway. :p

I know this is inaproprete coming from me, and perhaps going to you, but Amen.

heh

I know this is inaproprete coming from me, and perhaps going to you, but Amen.

heh

*lol* No problem.

So how come we haven't evolved? Sorry i'm not to great with evolution i don't know all the chains.

We have. Check the topic of Milaria resistance as it is tied to sycle cell anemia. Further, examine the concept of lactose tollerance. These are examples of evolution occuring in humans. Stuff as dramatic as the sense of sight takes millions of years, but little things are being dropped into the gene pool through mutations and get kept if they're helpful and lost if they're harmful (since the mutants with useful abilities tend to survive and the mutants with disabilities tend not only to die in greater numbers, but they don't get layed as often).

Magic is a trick. Okay i can show u how to make a ball disapear, but it's a trick. Miricals is a different word with a whole differeent meaning. No the guy on the sci-fi chanel is just odd.

So, parting the Red Sea? Turning water into wine? Are these miracles? Because they sound suspiciously like grandiose magic tricks to me.

where do athests go after they die? like what do u belive happens after death? cuz i belive tis nothing right? well how can you live with no hope like that? isn't it sad?
Atheists tend to believe they just die. That there's nothing left, so instead of struggling and suffering their whole lives under the idea that they'll be rewarded in the next life, they try to make this life as good as possible, since it's the only one they have.

(I'm not an atheist, rather a rather strange breed of agnostic pagan, but I do understand the atheist mindset.)

Yes, the bible has a lot of remarkably accurate details. Like the part about the firmament in the sky. How did those darn historians know that the cause of rain was windows in a structure blocking off the "higher waters" being opened? And of course the biblical historians knew about those pesky giants in the early years, and the incredibly long lifespans of ancient people.

This is simply not just "ANOTHER BOOK". It is a book fit for and writen by a King.

Oh, please. Whatever it is, the Bible is NOT well written, unless you compare it with books that have titles like "The Eternal desire of nurse Suzie for Doctor Jack" or "The Ultra Secret Omega-12 Conspiracy" .

So my question is this, Why Do People Hate And Want To Disprove The Bible So Much?
Because it may be a good idea to check your sources ? That some parts of the Bible sound good does not mean that ALL of it is worth following.

Oh, please. Whatever it is, the Bible is NOT well written, unless you compare it with books that have titles like "The Eternal desire of nurse Suzie for Doctor Jack" or "The Ultra Secret Omega-12 Conspiracy" .

Or Bill O'Reilly's book.

Mmm, no. Christianity still is the largest religion on the planet. Last esitmate I saw was around 3 billion or so.

2.1 billion is a closer approximation.

Doesn't matter, though. Just because a person claims to be Christian doesn't mean they follow Jesus. I stand by what I said.

I'd say your very right. Though i'd also say it's very unfortunate.

Theres over 3 billion christian on the earth, leaving it still, the largest religion on the planet.

thanks but it's better to just keep praying, I would never be aloud back in my home or with any of the people i consider friends if they new. and for the last time I'm not Christian. i'm just religious


Yeah, Just because God mad them gay, doesn't mean everything that is writen in the Bible is below what they are and how they should live there live, I know many christians that were once gay, and now they are like super christians, seriously..

Theres over 3 billion christian on the earth, leaving it still, the largest religion on the planet.Which all in all just shows human beings are pretty daft.

Impressive, in a depressing sort of way.

Not entirely. Many "universal morals" are instinct. As a social species, we evolved to cooperate and help each other out. That would include things like not killing or stealing. Heres an interesting article on the subject.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4766490.stm

Ha! thats one thing thats wrong with evolution, we SHOULDN'T have morals, if evolution happend, then we would be without guilt, how many animals do you see that once they kill another animal they go and weep over it? not many.

I agree completely. Without religion we would have no chance to repent for our killing each other and no hope for a life without killing. We have religion and are still killing i agree


The only reason why there is religion and killing at the same time is because we only have the conflicts between people who do not agree on the others religion/beliefs and also it is because the rules and doctins in the religion are not followed, like think of this, If the whole world was Christian, True Christians, would the world be a different place? Of course it would, have the wars and conflicts are started because of religion. And is mostly involing Christianity in the somehow, because The Devil puts everything on Christianity because he hates truth. Think about it. "Why is there so much conflict with Christianity?"

Ha! thats one thing thats wrong with evolution, we SHOULDN'T have morals, if evolution happend, then we would be without guilt, how many animals do you see that once they kill another animal they go and weep over it? not many.Most social animals have some concept of loss, guilt & such.

Why do you insist on imposing human perceptions on dumb animals, by the way?

And... If you don't mind me asking; how old & where are you two from?

[QUOTE=Lordeah]
That's because evolution is about the factual and can be tested. QUOTE]

science is that which is observable, repeatable, and measurable, but we haven't observed one species change into another. thus evolution still cannot be verified.

Yes, thats true, because theres no truth in it. You can't go back 4.6 billion years ago and check out whats going on, just like bones do not have a tag on them that says how old they year, and Carbon dating is way of, cause of the assumptions you first have to make.

Hate to bust your bubble...but we have. By no means was it like a mouse becoming a kanaroo, but we've seen many protists and bacteria mutate and evolve to their surroundings into completely new species. It's not some impossibly small percentage that this can happen, it's more like 1/2. A chromosome either mutates or it doesn't. It is pretty much 50/50. Although, in most bigger animals the 50 for not mutating seems to be bigger.


Oh Sorry KooleKoggle I'd hate to burst you buble but mutation is a loss of information, not a gain. "into completely new species"? Id would like to see the slightest amount of evidence for this, and i highly doubt this is possible.

good for us it only had to happen once and had all of forever to do it. ^^

lol..this is weak

Yeah, I'm really gonna waste my time thinking out and writing a long post just so people can just dismiss it. It wouldn't matter how well I wrote it, you'll ignore it because of the position it takes.

I find the idea that Mao's quotation book, the "Little Red Book", was more influential than the Bible a bit suspect. The only things Mao's book has influenced are the Chinese government (which already seems to be having a hard time proving it is still true to the ideas in that book), some African dictatorships, Pol Pot's government and some rebels in Nepal and India. If you mean in terms of deaths, Mao's book is definitely more influential, since some estimates of deaths under his regime go as high as 80 million, including all of the mass executions, famines (both the deliberately engineered ones as well as those that were a result of poor planning) labour camps and massacres of dissidents. I have no figures for the deaths because of Christian, Muslim or Jewish inquisitions, pogroms and witch burnings, but those may go into the millions.
The Bible, especially the first five books that are accepted by Christianity, Judaism and Islam has influenced billions of people, many not in the west. Even in China, Japan and Korea (President Kim Dae Jung was Catholic) there are large numbers of Christians, Muslims and even some Jews.


Well yes you are right that it has influenced many people with the first 5 books,but the rest of the bible had a large inpack in the past 11-19 hundred years ago, and even befor that. But have you heard of any of these books in local covnversation? not rarely.It just shows the HUGE inpack it had on people...

Theres over 3 billion christian on the earth, leaving it still, the largest religion on the planet.

3 billion? No. I'd like to see where you get your numbers. adherents.com, a Christian based site, only claims 2.1 billion as the *top* number.

You're claiming 1/2 the population of the world is Christian? Hardly.

Yes, thats true, because theres no truth in it. You can't go back 4.6 billion years ago and check out whats going on, just like bones do not have a tag on them that says how old they year, and Carbon dating is way of, cause of the assumptions you first have to make.You're talking nonsense about something you clearly have no understanding of.

There is no evidence for any mechanism that halts evolution at a point you Christians often call micro evolution. Thus it is completely irrational to gibber about us not having been present at X point in time.

An analogy: if you have no reason to believe that the rubber tree growing in your livingroom, will stop growing on it's own, is it not wholly unreasonable of you to conclude that your rubber tree won't eventually grow too large to fit in your livingroom?

That's basically what you've just done. Speciation is bound to happen, unless there is some mechanism to prevent it. No one, not you, yuour church or any scientist to date, have been able to find such a mechanism.

Dating systems only make the basic assumption that the mehcanics of the universe haven't undergone drastic changes during the measurement period. If the universe was the same back then as it is now, the dating methods will be accurate.

Ha! thats one thing thats wrong with evolution, we SHOULDN'T have morals, if evolution happend, then we would be without guilt, how many animals do you see that once they kill another animal they go and weep over it? not many.

Bad example. Most of the time, humans don't weep over killing either.

What are the odds of a deity then? Negative 7 in zero?

There is evidence for the Big Bang's occurance, there is no such evidence for mystical deity from above.


One piece of evidence for the "big bang"? Like..if i said to you and while in a computer store.."hey did you know a massive explosion made this computer, well at least some of the parts in it?" or "hey did you know your worth abolutly nothing, i could kill you right now and nothing would happen when i died" or a teacher saying to there younger students of 6-8 "Okay class each one of you once washed up on a shore 10 million years ago as scum and then it took 99.9 million years until you all reliezed that droping a seed into the ground made fruit and food, and then you all thought up ideas about gods and God, and befor all of this you were Rocks, and befor that gas floating around." If you had no experice of it with all the evolution propaganda you would not believe me.lol sounds like more of a fairy tale to me.

Well there is no Physical evidence for God, He could easily enough show us some, but what the value in that for Him all the people that believed in Him enough with faith, all we have is Faith, I know that there is God, and some time a doubt it cause the devil doesn't want me living. anyway i gotta go outside and get some fresh year.



CHECK OUT THIS WEBSITE FOR ANSWERS http://www.answersingenesis.org/

Bad example. Most of the time, humans don't weep over killing either.


ahh..look a little closer, You see conflicts of killing, (protesting war)

One piece of evidence for the "big bang"?

Red-shifting.

Next!

lol...noob, i was talking about, being inspired by God himself "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God,and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousnes" 2 tim 3:16

Ironically Timothy is generally agreed by scholars to be a forgery rather than a genuine Pauline letter.

One piece of evidence for the "big bang"? Like..if i said to you and while in a computer store.."hey did you know a massive explosion made this computer, well at least some of the parts in it?"

Sounds reasonable. I do not imagine that God personally sat down and designed every piece of silicium inside it for instance.

If you had no experice of it with all the evolution propaganda you would not believe me.lol sounds like more of a fairy tale to me.

Evolutionism is indeed a fairytale. Evolution however is a scientific theory. The first was thought up by creationists, like yourself, in hopes to discredit the second one. The second one is an explanation that fits observations.

Maybe you should stop attacking the fairytale your side made up themselves, and start attacking what the opposition is *actually* saying ?
Who knows.. someone might actually start to take you serious then.

CHECK OUT THIS WEBSITE FOR ANSWERS http://www.answersingenesis.org/
I am sorry, but I cannot trust a website that employs deliberate deception, lies and convenient forgetting of context just to get at the answers they like. Someone who feels they should lie to others and themselves to make sure they see "the Truth" simply isn't reliable in my book.

One piece of evidence for the "big bang"? Like..if i said to you and while in a computer store.."hey did you know a massive explosion made this computer, well at least some of the parts in it?"

I'm sure they'd find it easier to believe than "Hey. Did you know that this computer only exists because a supernatural entity who's existence isn't yet to be confirmed got bored with spending eternity by himself."

Ha! thats one thing thats wrong with evolution, we SHOULDN'T have morals, if evolution happend, then we would be without guilt, how many animals do you see that once they kill another animal they go and weep over it? not many.

Watch any social animal accidentaly harm a member of it's group. Also, please look at "Feral Children," their Morals are far different from civilized people. Rember, that morals are a learned behavior.

Oh Sorry KooleKoggle I'd hate to burst you buble but mutation is a loss of information, not a gain. "into completely new species"? Id would like to see the slightest amount of evidence for this, and i highly doubt this is possible.

Mutation is any change is the genetic coding of an organism, including addition of an extra piece. For instance, Down Syndrome is a mutation, and it gives an entire extra chromosome.

I think the real problem in this debate, is that the raving Christian individuals (yes I'm well aware most Christians completely disagree with the two) believe they know the meaning behind the universe.

I can see why it must be hard to accept that others percieve cosmos as being devoid of a determinable purpose. I'm sure I'd feel the same way, were the roles reversed.

Still, this boggles my poor little mind something fierce. You see, for all intents & purposes it doesn't make any difference whether cosmos was created by natural forces, or by other means. Knowing how everything came to exist doesn't reveal any purpose or intent. It explains a how, not a why.

Like it or not, if you examine the jumble you call Holy Scriptures, you won't find any purpose. You won't discover any intent. All your Holy Gibberish only serves to let you antropomorphise whatever brought about everything - lets you project YOUR OWN imagined purpose & intent onto your deity.

The things you are trying to make fun of, is simply the honest admission that we don't know anymore than you do. In the end, this makes you appear hillariously insane.

*Blatent, yet completely justified, snip*
What is wrong with the idea that we are rocks? Think about how much of you is raw molecular construction; Water, calcium, iron, sugars, proteins, deoxyribo nucleic acid...

The only difference between a human being and a pile of material is the arrangement. And while, yes, the arrangement is a beautiful and spectacular feat, it is not miraculous.

I think the real problem in this debate, is that the raving Christian individuals (yes I'm well aware most Christians completely disagree with the two) believe they know the meaning behind the universe.

I can see why it must be hard to accept that others percieve cosmos as being devoid of a determinable purpose. I'm sure I'd feel the same way, were the roles reversed.

Still, this boggles my poor little mind something fierce. You see, for all intents & purposes it doesn't make any difference whether cosmos was created by natural forces, or by other means. Knowing how everything came to exist doesn't reveal any purpose or intent. It explains a how, not a why.

Like it or not, if you examine the jumble you call Holy Scriptures, you won't find any purpose. You won't discover any intent. All your Holy Gibberish only serves to let you antropomorphise whatever brought about everything - lets you project YOUR OWN imagined purpose & intent onto your deity.

The things you are trying to make fun of, is simply the honest admission that we don't know anymore than you do. In the end, this makes you appear hillariously insane.

:fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle:

Oh Sorry KooleKoggle I'd hate to burst you buble but mutation is a loss of information, not a gain. "into completely new species"? Id would like to see the slightest amount of evidence for this, and i highly doubt this is possible.

First off, a mutation is any change at all in the DNA code. It can be a loss, a gain, or neither. Something can just change. And yeah, there is quite a lot of evidence for it. One example would be the previous poster talking about that mosquito that evolved to adapt to subways. Another is one that we did in highschool biology. There's a kind of bacteria that we used that grew on lactose. It could could also just barely live in samll numbers on glucose though too. After a few generations on the glucose though, there is a new bacteria that thrives on glucose and is completely lactose-intolerant. They die just minutes after being exposed to lactose.

My big question is that if Satan put dinosaur bones in the ground to test us, why do the people who believe that drive cars which use gas and oil created by those same fossils?

Or do you believe your loving and just magic sky fairy put a limited amount of fuel in the ground knowing full and damn well we'd become dependent upon it?

The only other possibility is to believe the world is millions of years old and your Bible is a fairy tale best kept along side Mother Goose and the Brothers Grimm.

Oh Sorry KooleKoggle I'd hate to burst you buble but mutation is a loss of information, not a gain. "into completely new species"? Id would like to see the slightest amount of evidence for this, and i highly doubt this is possible.

A mutation is not a loss. It is not a gain. It is a change, an alteration.
Changes enable new traits. The traits might be beneficial, they might be detrimental, and they might manifest no detectable difference at all.

For example, albinism. The "mutation" that manifests as lack of black pigment (melanin) is not a loss within the body of the DNA. It is a change to the information that causes the affected animal to be unable to produce one particular pigment. An albino mule is fully as much mule as a black one.

"Smash"

"Whoosh"

"Splat"


To clarify, that was your credibility flying out the window, failing to keep itself supported and hitting the kerb.
The British spell curb with a k? Kurb? That's so awesome!

In One Book.Has changed the face of the earth, Of Course you all know I'm talking about the Bible.

Now wait, befor you jump and post a negative relpy,just look at this:

1)It's very old (3 000years+)
2)It's a powerfull book(ie started wars)
3)It has influnced many people, great thinkers and nations.
4)It's very long, A colection of over 65 books, with hundereds of chapters and thousands of verses.
5)It is basicly the foundation of Law to over 2/3rds of the world.
6)It has so much truth in it that works, lessons about:
-mercy
-forgiveness
-honesty
-humility
-love
-patience
-temperance
-obedience
-peacefullness
-swearing
-hatred
-crime
-death
-enemies
-marriage
the list goes on...

Now I know this is the book with the most violence in human history(OT), but it is also the book with the most love, and teachings in it.(NT)

Now I know a lot of people get their views about Christianity by some "christians" and some "Christian" Chruchs, but look no chruch or christian is perfect, not even one, ever and never will be. Because it is controled by "Man"(for all femimists out there "humans")But if you ever sit down and read a little bit of this huge book and give it a chance, it will change you.

So befor you go and covert to another religion because the one your in doesn't "dig" you, stop and look at the big picture.

The Bible Verse Other Books-
The Quran came from Mohammed. The Book of Mormon came from Joseph Smith. But the Bible is unique among the many sacred books in the world. One person did not write it. Rather, the Old and New Testaments were written by 40 different authors, located in Asia, Africa and Europe, over a 1600-year time span.
Beyond its unique authorship, the Bible contains a massive amount of prophecies which later were fulfilled in detail. For example, various Old Testament prophets gave over 300 specific prophecies about the coming Messiah, ie. where He would be born, where He would grow up, etc. These prophecies were perfectly fulfilled by Jesus Christ hundreds of years later. These and the many other fulfilled prophecies show why the authors could write, "Thus says the Lord..."--they were speaking for the One who knows "the end from the beginning.

Also archaeology repeatedly confirms peoples' names, historical events, and geographical details exactly as they are recorded in the Old and New Testaments. Though archaeology cannot prove the spiritual truth of the Bible, the discoveries do show the Bible's reliability as an historical report.
But no matter what people wrote against it, how many times people burt it, did whatever to it, it stood strong. And became even stronger when the Dead Sea Scrolls were found proving to critics that it's message has not been altered over thousands of years.

Cornelius Tacitus (A.D. 55-120), an historian of first-century Rome, "is considered one of the most accurate historians of the ancient world."An excerpt from Tacitus tells us that Nero "inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class...called Christians. ...Christus [Christ], from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus...." (In contrast, the Muslim Quran, written six centuries after Jesus lived, reports that Jesus was never crucified, though it is a fact confirmed by numerous secular historians.)

The Bible has a tremendous amount of historical detail, so not everything mentioned in it has been found through archaeology. However, not one archaeological find has conflicted with what the Bible records.

Like come on sence evolution was brought into the picture it still hasn't many minds, or but a dent in the bible.Look at The Exodus events, people have been trying to prove it wrong for ages but the bible stands strong, it's tough man.(oh if you've seen Exodus Decoded on the Discovery Channel lately you know what i'm talking about)

This is simply not just "ANOTHER BOOK". It is a book fit for and writen by a King.

So my question is this, Why Do People Hate And Want To Disprove The Bible So Much?

Know i'd like to ster away from half-assed remarks like "they'd'a wata disproive dis bouk cuse its aulll rong"

Come On.
Give Me All You Got.


Thanks.

because, people like to think about what life is instead of giving them selves to one way of think automatically, note i am not trying to offend you or anything. Just some people think differently. All though i'm indifferent to all this, it's hard for people to live in peace with the consept of god there.

And as for me science has siad many things that can counter anything you say, (not saying your wrong, nor right)

so yeah, good day sir's.

if your god is real- he's a little kid with a magnifying glass, and we're a bunch of ants.

Alright, now we can use Jim Carey comedy movie lines to try and debate serious theology... that must surely be the path to reasonable arguments!

that was sarcastic too, by the wat....

The British spell curb with a k? Kurb? That's so awesome!

ok, can you not read? not trying to be mean, but he spelled it 'kerb' not 'kurb' how can you notice the 'k' and not the 'e'
sorry, but really...?

Lordeah is a flippin jerk.

You know I don't know why were still debating this our religions are very differenet but who know they may even be interconected. If my God wanted to use evolution in creation he could have cuz my God's that big.

There's no point in trying to use history agaisn't your science becasue we value history (the bible) more then your scince.

The only difference between us is that when we see a beautiful sunset we say thank you God. While you don't know who to thank. What do u see when you look at a sunset?

I'm not a ranting christain, i'll tell you that much, in fact for quite a while i had no idea what i belived, but after reading some of the stuff you say It just makes me want to belive even more.

You've got terrible odds.
And it takes so much Faith to look around and see the moutians and all creation and belive that and explotion like the same kind that kills people, created this.
But most of all is your science. Scientists belived the earth was flat did they not? Now that worked for them, but it wasn't true. what would have happened if they had tryed to go to the moon while the earth was "flat"? False religons will eventualy unravel.

I don't think that evolution isn't real but i don't think it is eather and frankly it doesn't matter to me cuz one day I can just sit up in heaven with God and ask him myself. He's not like the boy with the microscope he's loving and caring and one day i'll get to meet him in person.

What do u think when that docters say that science isn't helping my firends the canser patient and then after much prayer he is healed how do u figure that works if he was taken off the radiation sx motnhs before he was healed. Thats not science thats my God.

U know I think the resons most athiests are well athiests is becasue of christians that's why i don't refer to myself as that. I think that if they looked at God on his own acord they would see somthing turly amazing. The greatest sacrifice of a father for his children. He died in your place his blood was spilled for you and wether or not u choose to accept it he loves you and is waiting fro you to come home to him where he will throw u a great party and welcome u into his arms

And it takes so much Faith to look around and see the moutians and all creation and belive that and explotion like the same kind that kills people, created this.

WTF!? Maybe that's why you do believe in 'God'. From that remark it almost seems you actually have no knowledge about anything in the scientific world. It was an explotion like the same kind that kills people, it was super dense, ultra hot hydrogen gas, and not some random "boom". Please think before you post.

What do u think when that docters say that science isn't helping my firends the canser patient and then after much prayer he is healed how do u figure that works if he was taken off the radiation sx motnhs before he was healed. Thats not science thats my God.

WTF again!? Evidence please. Gimme cases because I'm an intern at a hospital and I haven't heard of any such cases.

He died in your place his blood was spilled for you and wether or not u choose to accept it he loves you and is waiting fro you to come home to him where he will throw u a great party and welcome u into his arms
Today 8:16 PM

So if Jesus knew he was going to die, wouldn't it be suicide? C'mon, that's a load of shit. (for lack of a better word) The day god makes dinosaurs appear again is the day I'll believe in god.

What do u think when that docters say that science isn't helping my firends the canser patient and then after much prayer he is healed how do u figure that works if he was taken off the radiation sx motnhs before he was healed. Thats not science thats my God.

Actually according to an article in Newsweek, the odds of survival go down with that. Also, note that this is an example of the placebo effect. You know what that is right?

What do u see when you look at a sunset?

I see the sun coming back inot view? Why do you ask?

I don't think that evolution isn't real but i don't think it is eather and frankly it doesn't matter to me cuz one day I can just sit up in heaven with God and ask him myself. He's not like the boy with the microscope he's loving and caring and one day i'll get to meet him in person.

No, in your religion, God is cold and distant. Jesus is the loving one.

U know I think the resons most athiests are well athiests is becasue of christians that's why i don't refer to myself as that.

I say this for myself, but I am an atheist, and I am that way because I see no proof of a higher moral power.

And you can't say "well, it was written by God" to prove anything to people who a) don't believe in God b) aren't Christian or c) are Christians who know the bible is merely a collection of fairy tales written by men to teach morality.

thats true, but what if u think the bible is nothing more than a collection of fairty tales u arent a christian, sorry to burst your bubble.

Don't forget that the world is only 6000 years old, man conquered the dinosaurs (who were in the garden of eden, and Noah somehow fit two of each into his ark), and the sun revolves around the earth, because the earth is the center of the universe.

You let me know when you find the place in the Bible where it says the earth is the center of the universe.

The Big Bang illustrates a more realistic interpretation, based on EVIDENCE (re: not a book of fairy tales, made up by men barely out of caves to explain the world) of creation.

I want to hear some of this evidence you claim to have.

What are the odds of a deity then? Negative 7 in zero?


You can't put odds on a deity. and also, id like to mention that the majority of the world of science says odds greater than 10^50 are impossible, and the big band is at about 10^429000 i believe.

If you're not Christian, then the bible is like a novel to you. What is there to hate about it? People don't hate the bible - they hate the people who believe in the bible.

Why would you hate the people who believe in the Bible?

"Sin" in a man-made construct designed to inspire guilt. So you have to go to church, give them money, and do what they say. Otherwise- you BURN IN HELL! HAHAHA! And why would god give us instincts, then set the rules for what is a sin in direct opposition to those instincts?

"Original sin" is the BIGGEST crock- saying that an innocent baby is somehow responsible for the crimes of Adam and Eve. The classic Roman "sins of the father" complex- where if your father was a traitor, then you must be too. And how could Mary be born without it then? Sounds like a Christian theologian got an F in logic.

So you say to not hold god accountable for christians? Ok, lets hold him accountable for himself then- in his "truthful and accurate" actions in the bible. Who killed all the innocent firstborn sons of Egypt? Who destroyed two entire cities just because he didn't like homosexuals? Who tortured and tormented Job, just to win a bet? Talk about a sadistic bastard- if your god is real- he's a little kid with a magnifying glass, and we're a bunch of ants.

God doesn't give us sin in opposition to our instincts. You can thank ur great great grandma EVE for those instincts. And the baby isn't responsible, it goes to heaven because God loves it and didn't create humans to understand Him in the stages of infancy. In regards to the third paragraph, He killed the firstborn sons of Egypt because the deliberately defied His will. They sinned against Him, so he brought punishment. The cities? They were wicked, and lived sinful lifestyles. God punished them too. And like Happy Cloud said earlier, it was the devil who tormented Job.

There are many, many gay Christians out there. And almost any city of any size has at least one gay church. Here a couple of links I hope you will find helpful in coming to terms with both your faith and sexuality. It is possible to be both gay and Christian.

I won't dispute that. In fact, it's possible to be a serial killer and be Christian. That doesn't make the serial killer part of your life ok. Everyone sins, even Christians.

Well, I think it is important to help young gay people who are having trouble reconciling who they are with their faith. Many years ago a good friend of mine killed himself at 16 because he couldn't come to terms with being gay and Christian. Just know that if you are gay, it won't simply go away because you pray hard enough. It is who you are and who you will always be, like it or not. There are many religions and faiths that embrace their gay members. Even quite a few Christian ones. They believe that God made gay people for a reason and He wouldn't create anything bad.

God made gay people, but that doesn't mean He created them gay. He created them, and they are gay now. And yes, it will go away. God will forgive your sins if you repent and ask for His forgiveness. You can change the fact that your gay---same sex attraction is not a natural phenomena.

thanks but it's better to just keep praying, I would never be aloud back in my home or with any of the people i consider friends if they new. and for the last time I'm not Christian. i'm just religious

I personally think you should flip that---it's being religious that causes problems, not being Christian. Those who claim to be "christian" aren't always who they say they are, they give the true christians a bad name. The inquisition does not follow Christian principles, neither do crusaders or other extremist zealots. Religion is the curse, not christianity.

I'm assuming this is a reply to my post (?).You know I don't know why were still debating this our religions are very differenet but who know they may even be interconected. If my God wanted to use evolution in creation he could have cuz my God's that big. It may surprise you to learn that I get along perfectly well with religious people. Several of my close friends are religious (not just Christians), and it's never really been an issue.

Then again, the religious people I associate with generally don't deny how the world works. In fact, they find blind orthodoxy just as daft as I do, and have every bit as much trouble comprehending how people can pull off such spectacular double-thinking (for lack of a better word).There's no point in trying to use history agaisn't your science becasue we value history (the bible) more then your scince.That's as wrong as it is right. Your problem is that people like myself don't have a great many preconcieved ideas about anything. You can't "use history against" people like me, because our arguments are based on on the very thing you seem to think your ideas are based on.
And that's probably why tempers flare in debates like this. Many people simply lose patience with people who insist on misconstruing facts - be they historical or not. Revisionists are generally frowned upon, regardless of whether they're neo-Nazis or orthodox Christians.

Initially, most people will consider such arguments ignorant, and seek to correct them. If the person delivering those ill concieved arguments persists, most people - myself included - will take you for a deliberate lair.The only difference between us is that when we see a beautiful sunset we say thank you God. While you don't know who to thank. What do u see when you look at a sunset?I'm an atheist - a strong one, by Wikipedia definitions. I don't feel any particular need to antropomorphize the universe to be able to enjoy inhabiting it. I can (and do) appreciatte sunsets every bit as much as you. The difference is I know I'm one hell of a lucky animal to be there to enjoy it - I just appreciate being alive & try to share the joy of it with the people I hold dear. The idea of a god cheapens the experience for me.I'm not a ranting christain, i'll tell you that much, in fact for quite a while i had no idea what i belived, but after reading some of the stuff you say It just makes me want to belive even more.Why?You've got terrible odds.Eh?And it takes so much Faith to look around and see the moutians and all creation and belive that and explotion like the same kind that kills people, created this. Why? I don't see how it requires faith to follow the evidence?But most of all is your science. Scientists belived the earth was flat did they not? Now that worked for them, but it wasn't true. what would have happened if they had tryed to go to the moon while the earth was "flat"? False religons will eventualy unravel.Science is the process of eliminating possible explanations. Unlike religion, science doesn't involve thinking up a couple of ideas, penning them in a book & then ignoring everything that turns out to be wrong.
If a scientific theory turns out to be wrong, it's discarded. No fuss, no muss. It's like miscalculating something, realising the mistake & correcting it.I don't think that evolution isn't real but i don't think it is eather and frankly it doesn't matter to me cuz one day I can just sit up in heaven with God and ask him myself. He's not like the boy with the microscope he's loving and caring and one day i'll get to meet him in person.The great thing about this, is that you'll never even find out if you're wrong. The concept of an afterlife is perfectly safe. No one can ever prove it isn't there, because it's based on imagination - and no one will ever be dissapointed, because if it's wreong, your neurons will simply stop firing & your conciousness will cease to exist.

Several of my friends believe in an afterlife (concepts vary), and I must admit that things like Valhall are very appealing - and as long as it makes them happy, I don't see the problem. We all need our own special ideals & illusions.What do u think when that docters say that science isn't helping my firends the canser patient and then after much prayer he is healed how do u figure that works if he was taken off the radiation sx motnhs before he was healed. Thats not science thats my God.And what do you say when a survey discovers that patients who pray & are prayed for, have more complications & longer hospital stays than people who don't? Is it still your god? If it really is, do you still think it's a just & loving god? Would you behave in the same manner?U know I think the resons most athiests are well athiests is becasue of christians that's why i don't refer to myself as that.I think you're right about that, at least when it comes to highly orthodox societies.
It isn't the reason I don't believe in anything supernatural, however. I don't believe, because I fail to see what there is to believe in - apart from the phantasmagoria of myself & others.

Jesus isn't hiding behind my couch. Neither is Thor, ghosts or anything else supernatural.I think that if they looked at God on his own acord they would see somthing turly amazing. The greatest sacrifice of a father for his children. He died in your place his blood was spilled for you and wether or not u choose to accept it he loves you and is waiting fro you to come home to him where he will throw u a great party and welcome u into his armsNo. Assuming for a moment this is actually real, I'd be disgusted with your psychopathic god.

As I posted elsewhere, I'm perfectly capable of killing people. I choose not to do it, because I value life, and respect others' right to it. I refuse to accept that some vile supernatural butcher defends it's actions by invoking my name - just as I refuse to accept that others butcher my fellow sentients in your god's name.

Frankly, if your god existted & was anything like the being described in the Bible, I'd consider it the duty of all sentient beings to rid the cosmos of it's vile presence.

Now before you start feeling deathly offended by that, consider how your words affect me. You wortship this being, and ask we all accept that. I can, but only because I'm certain the being you hold dear is a figment of your imagination. If I thought otherwise, I wouldn't tolerate you wortshipping a genocidal being anymore than I tolerate neo-Nazi scum.

Time will not permit me to wade through this entire thread right now, nor to comment in detail, but kudos to Omnipotent333! Very well-written "essay"! What you said about the Bible is very true. Science does not prove the Bible, but science and archealogy do provide evidence that points to the Bible's accuracy, something that cannot be denied. Well done!

Time will not permit me to wade through this entire thread right now, nor to comment in detail, but kudos to Omnipotent333! Very well-written "essay"! What you said about the Bible is very true. Science does not prove the Bible, but science and archealogy do provide evidence that points to the Bible's accuracy, something that cannot be denied. Well done!

It most certainly can be denied, have you been living under a rock ever since the Enlightenment?

You know I don't know why were still debating this our religions are very differenet but who know they may even be interconected. If my God wanted to use evolution in creation he could have cuz my God's that big.

There's no point in trying to use history agaisn't your science becasue we value history (the bible) more then your scince.

The only difference between us is that when we see a beautiful sunset we say thank you God. While you don't know who to thank. What do u see when you look at a sunset?

I'm not a ranting christain, i'll tell you that much, in fact for quite a while i had no idea what i belived, but after reading some of the stuff you say It just makes me want to belive even more.

You've got terrible odds.
And it takes so much Faith to look around and see the moutians and all creation and belive that and explotion like the same kind that kills people, created this.
But most of all is your science. Scientists belived the earth was flat did they not? Now that worked for them, but it wasn't true. what would have happened if they had tryed to go to the moon while the earth was "flat"? False religons will eventualy unravel.

I don't think that evolution isn't real but i don't think it is eather and frankly it doesn't matter to me cuz one day I can just sit up in heaven with God and ask him myself. He's not like the boy with the microscope he's loving and caring and one day i'll get to meet him in person.

What do u think when that docters say that science isn't helping my firends the canser patient and then after much prayer he is healed how do u figure that works if he was taken off the radiation sx motnhs before he was healed. Thats not science thats my God.

U know I think the resons most athiests are well athiests is becasue of christians that's why i don't refer to myself as that. I think that if they looked at God on his own acord they would see somthing turly amazing. The greatest sacrifice of a father for his children. He died in your place his blood was spilled for you and wether or not u choose to accept it he loves you and is waiting fro you to come home to him where he will throw u a great party and welcome u into his arms


Amen.

thats true, but what if u think the bible is nothing more than a collection of fairty tales u arent a christian, sorry to burst your bubble.



You let me know when you find the place in the Bible where it says the earth is the center of the universe.



I want to hear some of this evidence you claim to have.



You can't put odds on a deity. and also, id like to mention that the majority of the world of science says odds greater than 10^50 are impossible, and the big band is at about 10^429000 i believe.



Why would you hate the people who believe in the Bible?



God doesn't give us sin in opposition to our instincts. You can thank ur great great grandma EVE for those instincts. And the baby isn't responsible, it goes to heaven because God loves it and didn't create humans to understand Him in the stages of infancy. In regards to the third paragraph, He killed the firstborn sons of Egypt because the deliberately defied His will. They sinned against Him, so he brought punishment. The cities? They were wicked, and lived sinful lifestyles. God punished them too. And like Happy Cloud said earlier, it was the devil who tormented Job.



I won't dispute that. In fact, it's possible to be a serial killer and be Christian. That doesn't make the serial killer part of your life ok. Everyone sins, even Christians.



God made gay people, but that doesn't mean He created them gay. He created them, and they are gay now. And yes, it will go away. God will forgive your sins if you repent and ask for His forgiveness. You can change the fact that your gay---same sex attraction is not a natural phenomena.



I personally think you should flip that---it's being religious that causes problems, not being Christian. Those who claim to be "christian" aren't always who they say they are, they give the true christians a bad name. The inquisition does not follow Christian principles, neither do crusaders or other extremist zealots. Religion is the curse, not christianity.


That was pretty fine Lib Lib, be blessed

It most certainly can be denied, have you been living under a rock ever since the Enlightenment?

explain please?

Time will not permit me to wade through this entire thread right now, nor to comment in detail, but kudos to Omnipotent333! Very well-written "essay"! What you said about the Bible is very true. Science does not prove the Bible, but science and archealogy do provide evidence that points to the Bible's accuracy, something that cannot be denied. Well done!

Hey thanks man, It's all God, one of my favourite verses is this Luke 17:10 "So also when you have done all things commanded you, you say, We are unprofitable slaves, for we have done what we ought to do. " So thanks for the support.If you have a chance could you pray for me and my South African Missions trip coming up in july. I need more money for it.God will provide.

be blessed

So, since this thread is supposed to be about the bible...

can anyone explain to me why, if God is omnipotent and omniscient, why are there so many translations of the bible (and I'm not talking languages here). If God were the one driving each translation, could he not have simply made a single translation that everyone, of every culture/race, could understand and relate to? I mean, your God is omnipotent, right?

So, then we get to the question: "Since God has guided all translations of the bible, how is the Catholic Church able to sit on the scriptures they dont want the world to see? Wouldnt God ensure they're included in every different translation?"

can anyone explain to me why, if God is omnipotent and omniscient, why are there so many translations of the bible (and I'm not talking languages here). If God were the one driving each translation, could he not have simply made a single translation that everyone, of every culture/race, could understand and relate to? I mean, your God is omnipotent, right?

Perhaps God had nothing to do with any of the translations and you're suppossed to read it in its original languages. Of course, this idea isn't popular among modern, pop-culture Christians, since most of them don't understand what they read in English to begin with. :D

But most of all is your science. Scientists belived the earth was flat did they not? Now that worked for them, but it wasn't true. what would have happened if they had tryed to go to the moon while the earth was "flat"? False religons will eventualy unravel.

No. Scientists did not believe that. The Catholic Church told people that, kept them uneducated so they couldn't prove them wrong and then when a few scientists did say that the earth was round they were killed. Taht's why after the fall of the roman Empire and the Catholics took power, we didn't have running water or toilets for nearly 1200 years. The more uneducated people are, the less you can question their authority. IT was more about power and wealth than the word of god.

God made gay people, but that doesn't mean He created them gay. He created them, and they are gay now. And yes, it will go away. God will forgive your sins if you repent and ask for His forgiveness. You can change the fact that your gay---same sex attraction is not a natural phenomena.

That is the most bullshit claim that I've ever heard. The worse thing is that a lot of people say it too. First off, why is homosexuality a sin? Not a single place in the bible ever refers to homosexuality at all. Not one. The closest thing to is the line about sexual perversion.

Sexual perversion in no way can be translated out to mean any specific thing. What's perverted to someone may be perfectly normal to another. I think it means that you should hold true to what you think is right, and not do anything that you think is wrong. It would be against your own morality if you did. The second point I'd like to make out is the fact that the Bible was originally in Greek. The Greeks had no word for homosexuality and in fact had no problem with it. All citizens were actually encouraged to be bisexual (Which again was not a Greek term).

The second statement that pisses me off is that same sex attraction isn't natural. Are you gay? If not, then how in the hell are you supposed to know? You're only going off the word of wackos like Pat Robertson on that one. There's absolutely no evidence on wither side to prove their view. We don't even know how attraction actually works in humans so it would be impossible to know if same sex attraction is natural. Ask a homosexual person if you want to know whether or not it is natural.

Doesn't matter, though. Just because a person claims to be Christian doesn't mean they follow Jesus. I stand by what I said.
Keruvalia, that makes NO sense. If we're counting noses on faith (as faith cannot be measured) we're gonna have to go with what they are stating.

After all, how do you know all those people who claim to be Buddhists are actually following the Buddha? ;)

BTW, for that 2.1 Bil, did that count Catholics or not? The number tossed around at the death of Pope John Paul II was 1 billion Catholics and the number of non-Catholics I last saw was around 1.5 billion or so.

And even then I am not sure if that counts the orthidox (sp?) churches and the Mormons which technically are Christian.

You can change the fact that your gay---same sex attraction is not a natural phenomena.

My goodness, so many obviously false statements in this thread.

Lib Lib, you are very wrong in your belief that same sex attraction is not a natural phenomena. To date homosexuality has ben documented in atleast 450 species. As such it is hardly "unnatural." It's not even rare. In fact it is quite common and natural. Links.... (of course there are links, I back up my arguments)

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/07/0722_040722_gayanimal.html

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002340835_gaycritter19m.html

http://www.jrn.columbia.edu/studentwork/cns/2002-06-10/591.asp

http://www.unknowncountry.com/news/?id=3555

What do u think when that docters say that science isn't helping my firends the canser patient and then after much prayer he is healed how do u figure that works if he was taken off the radiation sx motnhs before he was healed. Thats not science thats my God.

No, it's science, medical personel, family, the individual, a ton of hard work, some good genes, and the luck of the draw.

I had cancer too. It was in my upper spinal cord and left me paralyzed from the neck down. We were told that I probably wouldn't survive surgery, and if I did I would be hooked up to machines for what was left of my life. But it didn't happen to pass that way. Then we were told I would never walk again. But, suprise, I did. And now my doctors regularly tell me my spinal cord is so severly damaged that I shouldn't be able to walk or use my arms. But I can.

Is this due to some magic man in the sky? No , I don't think so. To credit some diety does a serious disservice and is insulting to my doctors, nurses, physical therapists, radiation therapists, family, and me and all our very hard work and perserverence. It pisses me off to no end when people say "god did it." Men, women, and science did it. Without science I would never have survived. Without all those who helped me, I would not have survived. Without my own hard work, I would not have survived. But I did just fine without your god, thank you very much. I was agnostic before, during, and after this experience.

That is the most bullshit claim that I've ever heard. The worse thing is that a lot of people say it too. First off, why is homosexuality a sin? Not a single place in the bible ever refers to homosexuality at all. Not one. The closest thing to is the line about sexual perversion.

Sexual perversion in no way can be translated out to mean any specific thing. What's perverted to someone may be perfectly normal to another. I think it means that you should hold true to what you think is right, and not do anything that you think is wrong. It would be against your own morality if you did. The second point I'd like to make out is the fact that the Bible was originally in Greek. The Greeks had no word for homosexuality and in fact had no problem with it. All citizens were actually encouraged to be bisexual (Which again was not a Greek term).

The second statement that pisses me off is that same sex attraction isn't natural. Are you gay? If not, then how in the hell are you supposed to know? You're only going off the word of wackos like Pat Robertson on that one. There's absolutely no evidence on wither side to prove their view. We don't even know how attraction actually works in humans so it would be impossible to know if same sex attraction is natural. Ask a homosexual person if you want to know whether or not it is natural.

I am "gay" well not really but that is the sin i struggle with i refuse to be gay becasue it is a sin adn many passages in the bible point to that. Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman for that is detestable. Leviticus 18:22 If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman both have done what is detestable. The must be put to death their blood on their own heads. Leviticus 20:13 becasue of sins God gave them over to shameful lusts and the men had relations with men and the women with women. Romans 1:26 The wicked shall not inheret the kingdom of God. Nether the sexual emmoral no the adulterers of prostitutes nor HOMOSEXUAL OFFENDERS. 1 cornthians 6:9

I am "gay" well not really but that is the sin i struggle with i refuse to be gay becasue it is a sin adn many passages in the bible point to that. Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman for that is detestable. Leviticus 18:22 If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman both have done what is detestable. The must be put to death their blood on their own heads. Leviticus 20:13 becasue of sins God gave them over to shameful lusts and the men had relations with men and the women with women. Romans 1:26 The wicked shall not inheret the kingdom of God. Nether the sexual emmoral no the adulterers of prostitutes nor HOMOSEXUAL OFFENDERS. 1 cornthians 6:9
Well, Paul seems to have been talking about gay prositutues at the temple, which usually doesn't apply, as for good ol' Leviticus, that brings in the problem of when does the OT laws apply.

Gays only? Or should I stone you for eating shellfish and wearing blended clothes?

Someone has yet to meet Neo Rogolia.

Or Corneliu.

Or Commando3 (or any of dozens of drones).

Or Ffc2.

In comparison, this guy's a humble saint.
Add Neo Cannen to that list and ya got a good list :)

[QUOTE=-Dixieland-]

Yes, thats true, because theres no truth in it. You can't go back 4.6 billion years ago and check out whats going on, just like bones do not have a tag on them that says how old they year, and Carbon dating is way of, cause of the assumptions you first have to make.

not blind assumptions though, it's stacking information from lots of people in lots of areas of study. It's not like someone woke up one day and randomly choose some numbers out of the air for carbon ratios. There's geology, and biology, and physics, and astronomy. If you look up at the stars in space, you're seeing light that's been traveling for longer than the universe is supposed to have existed in the narrow eyes of pure biblican creationalism. The idea that the combined study somewhere north of a hundred thousand scientists is all wrong because it disagrees with the literal inturpretation of Beowolf.

Sure, the bible was written by the one true god. Just like every other religious work from the tens of thousands of religions this planet has hosted since man had enough time to tell stories to each other. Science doesn't know everything, but it knows a god awful lot more than most religious people give it credit for.

Fine, scientists don't understand radioactive decay. That means that it's just pure luck that the energy source that provides 20% of US power works at all, and it might stop at any time, or rather suddenly produce vastly more or less power than we could ever expect. .. perhaps more important to you, at any point, your very atoms might decide to fuse together or split apart...randomly. As you drive down the road, it's highly likely new rock formations will grow faster than trees, and plate tectonics? Pah, it doesn't exist. Earthquakes aren't real and despite measurements to the contrary, the US and Europe are exactly the same distance apart that they have been for the last 6,000 years. Sedimentation is such a fast thing that it's only pure luck that the Mississippi River even still empties into the Gulf of Mexico.. after all, we've known about it for 400 years, more than enough time for the entire Gulf to fill up and new waterways form..

bah


Honestly, looking at the world and being able to predict how it works provides far more insight than any faerie tale. Science can't say that the last dinosaur died December 7th, 65,325,416 BC, at 11:52 PM, but we DO know there weren't tens of thousands of them trapsing around 6,000 years ago.

One piece of evidence for the "big bang"? Like..if i said to you and while in a computer store.."hey did you know a massive explosion made this computer, well at least some of the parts in it?"


It's not like there was the big bang, and then, plop, computers. The big bang left a universe of mostly energy and hydrogen, then, supermassive stars formed and made heavier elements... and died after about a million years, sometimes less... more stars formed and condensed into galaxies, yada yada.. so eventually you have this moist rock which we live on.. life started, we're not too clear on exactly why but once it did it took what energy it could and natural selection ran the show from then on.. it nearly killed itself off a few times, particularlly by flooding the atomosphere with oxygen for the first time, but, luck was with us and now we're having this arguement. The computer wasn't formed, it was forged. The skills we've learned over the last few thousand years from metalurgy to plastics to lithography to electronics went into that device. Our mastery of everything from the magnetic field to vacums, to nanoscale construction, to automated sodering make it possible. The way you portray it someone lit two sticks of TNT and got a computer. gravity and enough hydrogen is enough to get fusion going, fusion is enough to get heavier elements, none of it takes a guiding hand. We don't know what lead to the quantium singularity that founded the universe, but we understand, at least in the overview, most of what came after that.


or "hey did you know your worth abolutly nothing, i could kill you right now and nothing would happen when i died"

If I killed you today I'd probably go to jail. There are three reasons I don't.
1) lack of motivation. You haven't done anything to me or mine, so why should I do anything to you or yours? Harming people lead to revenge, so the opertunity costs are two high. I respect your right to exist, so long as you respect my right to exist.
2) fear of first order consequences. You could have a gun. Or be in better shape. There is a risk I might die, and I'd rather that didn't happen.
3) fear of second order conequences. If I'm caught I'd go to jail. Going to jail would be bad. It would reduce the number of things I could do with my life.

what happens when I die? As far as I know, me is unplugged, stops being. The legalities of what I left behind are sorted out, but personally it really makes little difference at that point. There isn't another judge. And if we were only going to be judged on our transgressions after we died, then what is the point in human law? Why defend yourself when you'll be embrassed on the other side? Human law exists because we aren't sure of gome greater judge. Personally, I do not think there is one.

or a teacher saying to there younger students of 6-8 "Okay class each one of you once washed up on a shore 10 million years ago as scum and then

My life began 33 years ago. The people before me, roughly twenty years prior, and before them, another twenty years. That goes back quite a ways, eventually to people who are less and less human... then less and less ape-like. Eventually you'll probably find something like a rodent or pig, and before that, something that isn't quite a mammal, and earlier, isn't at all... eventually you hit fish, and then things without spines, and eventually single celled organisms. But none of them are slime molds or plants. Because Animals and plants went down two different paths long before there were slime molds. Likewise, none of them were trees. For the same reason. Even moreso for the same reason.
it took 99.9 million years until you all reliezed that droping a seed into the ground made fruit and food,

of course, slime molds didn't realize anything. And they didnt suddenly become trees. Plants had a complex morphography before they we saw the first trees and what. They interacted with their environment, the things that ate them, the things that competed with them, and eventually became what we know today. That a lizard might one day give birth to a cow is one of those little things that creationalists keep misrepresenting evolutionists views as. Evolution isn't about becoming better, it's about living long enough to have children. More of your children and their children living than those who don't have that one different gene. Sex helps get rid of bad genes... if you don't live long enough to reproduce, or others don't like what you look like to reproduce with, your line ends. Only genes that are neutral or better get passed on. Better doesn't mean you'll be smarter, stronger, and bigger. It just means you'll live long enough to reproduce.. and that your children will... and that you are a bit more sucessful at it.

and then you all thought up ideas about gods and God, and befor all of this you were Rocks, and befor that gas floating around." If you had no experice of it with all the evolution propaganda you would not believe me.lol sounds like more of a fairy tale to me.


Are the gods of the Norse, the Greeks, the romans, the Egyptians, yada, yada, all true gods? If not, what makes the stories passed down by those who founded your religion more right than those who founded theirs? What? Yours were written by the true god?

Well there is no Physical evidence for God, He could easily enough show us some, but what the value in that for Him all the people that believed in Him enough with faith, all we have is Faith, I know that there is God, and some time a doubt it cause the devil doesn't want me living. anyway i gotta go outside and get some fresh year.

...so your god doesn't prove he exists, and their god doesn't, and we take it on faith who's right. Well, I think, by faith and study, that I am. There are no gods. Not yours, theirs, anyone's.

---same sex attraction is not a natural phenomena.


Never owned a male dog, I take it.

explain please?

You wrote:

Time will not permit me to wade through this entire thread right now, nor to comment in detail, but kudos to Omnipotent333! Very well-written "essay"! What you said about the Bible is very true. Science does not prove the Bible, but science and archealogy do provide evidence that points to the Bible's accuracy, something that cannot be denied. Well done!

And I, like many reasonable people, do deny the accuracy of the Bible. It's surprisingly easy you know. The contradictions alone are laughable.

No. Scientists did not believe that. The Catholic Church told people that, kept them uneducated so they couldn't prove them wrong and then when a few scientists did say that the earth was round they were killed. Taht's why after the fall of the roman Empire and the Catholics took power, we didn't have running water or toilets for nearly 1200 years. The more uneducated people are, the less you can question their authority. IT was more about power and wealth than the word of god.
Education is what you make of it.
Who is to say what you are being taught is correct?
What if the Lecturers and the likes are misleading us all?

Holy crap, it's all a giant conspiracy I tells ya!

They're pulling the wool over our eyes! All of us! Those sly bastards have got us by the danglies! Run for the hills children, and cover your ears, that's how Satan gets in!

Holy crap, it's all a giant conspiracy I tells ya!

They're pulling the wool over our eyes! All of us! Those sly bastards have got us by the danglies! Run for the hills children, and cover your ears, that's how Satan gets in!
No don' the hill you is going for is the Home of the Greek Gods you shalt be smote!

This is simply not just "ANOTHER BOOK". It is a book fit for and writen by a King.

But...it is just another book...You can find as much meaning in every other book.

So my question is this, Why Do People Hate And Want To Disprove The Bible So Much?

I don't hate the bible, it was actually a very interesting read. I just cant see how people could abandon all logic and take it literally. Also, the Bible was written by men, not God. Men are flawed, and so is the Bible.

Okay since you seem like one who is pretty smart. I'll level with you.
do you know the odds of the big bang?
one in a hundred billion to the one hundred twenty third power
and thats just the macrouniverse not even the odds of complex biological life

I know this reply is super-late, but I just can't let this absurd statement be absorbed as a sensible part of the discussion.

There ARE no odds regarding the Big Bang. What I mean is not that the odds are 0, but that the concept of odds just doesn't WORK with this sort of thing. Probability only affects tangible, physical things, so it can't apply in parameters where there IS nothing.

Furthermore, the only realistic means of accurate probability calculation in relation to anything much more complex than the roll of a dice is through observation of past occurances of the event (for example, the probability of a random natural event like a lightning strike can be estimated by taking into account the frequency of similar strikes in the past). Most Christians and atheists can probably agree that the universe as we know it was only created once, so whoever dreamed up that arbitrary figure really needs to lay off the crack cocaine for a while.

I know this reply is super-late, but I just can't let this absurd statement be absorbed as a sensible part of the discussion.

There ARE no odds regarding the Big Bang. What I mean is not that the odds are 0, but that the concept of odds just doesn't WORK with this sort of thing. Probability only affects tangible, physical things, so it can't apply in parameters where there IS nothing.

Furthermore, the only realistic means of accurate probability calculation in relation to anything much more complex than the roll of a dice is through observation of past occurances of the event (for example, the probability of a random natural event like a lightning strike can be estimated by taking into account the frequency of similar strikes in the past). Most Christians and atheists can probably agree that the universe as we know it was only created once, so whoever dreamed up that arbitrary figure really needs to lay off the crack cocaine for a while.

You are right. We had this discussion before in an earlier thread. The probability of the Universe existing and Life existing are both p=1.0. We don't know how many "failed Universes" or "failed life planets" can be used to calculate those odds. It is conceptually empty.

You are right. We had this discussion before in an earlier thread. The probability of the Universe existing and Life existing are both p=1.0. We don't know how many "failed Universes" or "failed life planets" can be used to calculate those odds. It is conceptually empty.Fortunately, 3rd grade maths is not a prerequisite for religious propaganda ;)

Fortunately, 3rd grade maths is not a prerequisite for religious propaganda ;)
*Nod*

25% indeed... :rolleyes:

Fortunately, 3rd grade maths is not a prerequisite for religious propaganda ;)

religion is a giant rumor game. Everything you hear is from someone you trust, and you trust largely because they tell you things that you already believe. It starts as children where you're told by the people you trust most about whatever god or gods. Then there are priests and what not, whom you're told you can trust... and friends, tv.. people are telling you the things you already believe, backing them up, filling in the blanks... and, basically, all of them went though the same process. It's a long, slow process of indocturnation the likes of which those people who do brainwashing only wish they could be allowed to do. There is a reason dictatorships usually go after religion. Can't very well have people having two kings. Even if one of them isn't real, people still follow his agents. Religious freedom only works when the government doesn't want to have absolute control over the people.