NationStates Jolt Archive

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4959008.stm

The socialists are still hating on America, it seems. Good luck to them in thier endevour.

Fuck em. :)

Oooh, South America is starting to get interesting again. Will certainly be interesting to see if they'll succeed in ridding themselves of US dominance.

One day, Castro will die, and then we'll see how socialist Cuba is.

Oooh, South America is starting to get interesting again. Will certainly be interesting to see if they'll succeed in ridding themselves of US dominance.

Not to be a cynic, but it's just a matter of time before the next military coup throws the region into chaos again. The problem with totalitarian governments is that eventually somebody thinks they should be king of the mountain instead.

The way economic globalization should be - focused on improving social conditions for the populations involved, not on enabling capital to move where it can best abuse and exploit.

It's OK, someone will figure out a way of making money out of it before long. Those who whine, just aren't thinking hard enough.

Not to be a cynic, but it's just a matter of time before the next military coup throws the region into chaos again. The problem with totalitarian governments is that eventually somebody thinks they should be king of the mountain instead.

With the aid of US fomenting them through CIA actions as they have such a long history of doing, there's a big chance it will happen. The US has never liked it when those countries get uppity and start thinking they can be sovereign...

There's a possibility it could be successful. Obviously it depends on the future political stability of the 3 countries involved, but as the article says an economic alliance between a gas-rich country (Bolivia) and an oil-rich country (Venezuela) is bound to be fairly strong.

I have a certain sympathy with Morales. He's trying to preserve the native Bolivian culture as much as possible in the face of globalisation, and all that entails. I don't think he's doing this so much to get at America (though that could be one reason), but to build strong relationships with countries that will be supportive of his attempt to preserve the culture, whatever their reasons for doing so.

I don't honestly see most Latin American countries joining this alliance. There's too many benefits in trading with America for those countries who don't care so much about their own traditions.

Not to be a cynic, but it's just a matter of time before the next military coup throws the region into chaos again. The problem with totalitarian governments is that eventually somebody thinks they should be king of the mountain instead.

Erm... except for Castro which of them is totalitarian? The other two (at least as far as I know) have been elected.

With the aid of US fomenting them through CIA actions as they have such a long history of doing, there's a big chance it will happen. The US has never liked it when those countries get uppity and start thinking they can be sovereign...

Good point. But Henry Kissinger can't live forever. :p

Good point. But Henry Kissinger can't live forever. :p
Yeah, but he can be embalmed and put on display, Lenin-style. :eek:

Erm... except for Castro which of them is totalitarian? The other two (at least as far as I know) have been elected.

Just because a leader is elected doesn't mean he doesn't have a dangerous amount of power to silence critics.

Yeah, but he can be embalmed and put on display, Lenin-style. :eek:

That would suit him, I think. :)

With the aid of US fomenting them through CIA actions as they have such a long history of doing, there's a big chance it will happen. The US has never liked it when those countries get uppity and start thinking they can be sovereign...

They tried in Venezuela and they tried in Haiti. They failed twice, though in the latter case it could be argued that the failure was only partial.

Chávez is being rather careful to prevent a re-enactment, and Castro has survived four and a half decades of US attempts to get rid of him; he isn't going anywhere.

With the US focus on Iraq and Iran, I don't see too much reason to worry at this point.

The day socialists begin to like America is the day I get worried.

They tried in Venezuela and they tried in Haiti. They failed twice, though in the latter case it could be argued that the failure was only partial.

Chávez is being rather careful to prevent a re-enactment, and Castro has survived four and a half decades of US attempts to get rid of him; he isn't going anywhere.

With the US focus on Iraq and Iran, I don't see too much reason to worry at this point.
First, Castro is immortal. IIRC he managed to recover for a broken leg faster than the average 10-year-old. I bet if God tried to assassinate Castro it would end in failure.

Second, just because they are focusing on the Middle East, doesn't mean that South America is not a priority anymore. It is just less of a publicit priority,

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4959008.stm

The socialists are still hating on America, it seems. Good luck to them in thier endevour.

Participants have vowed to work towards the eradication of illiteracy and the expansion of employment.

Cuba has promised to help Bolivia provide free eye treatment to those Bolivians who otherwise would not be able to afford it.
Yup, I can see how this represents "hating on America"... ;)

Yup, I can see how this represents "hating on America"... ;)

Clearly, you haven't watched enough CNN.

We should do a "shock and awe" type of operation on the south american socialist countries.

In other words we should bomb the crap out of them :)

Clearly, you haven't watched enough CNN.
:eek: Damn! My secret's out! It's all some kind of whacked-out conspiracy, I tell you! That's it, I'm going to the wide-open spaces of Antartica...
*runs away*

Go Latin American countries, go!

Whoo-hoo!

We should do a "shock and awe" type of operation on the south american socialist countries.

In other words we should bomb the crap out of them :)
Naw, if we really wanted to shock em off, we would arm our military and deploy them in SA. We would have them blaze a trail through their rainforests, shooting anything that can outrun the flames. We would modify our Water-Bomber aircraft to drop salt instead of water, and leave a hefty blanket of salt on every peice of arable land we find. We would bomb mines shut, and sever oil pipelines. We would damn rivers and destroy bridges. We would unlesh attack dogs trained to kill livestock. We would tear up highways and warp train rails. Then we would leave.

I think that would piss em off just a tad more. :)

Whoo-hoo!

First, Castro is immortal. IIRC he managed to recover for a broken leg faster than the average 10-year-old. I bet if God tried to assassinate Castro it would end in failure.
Yes, but what if Chuck Norris tried it?

Yes, but what if Chuck Norris tried it?
God would die.

God would die.
Whoo-hoo!

This just keeps getting better with every passing moment.

Off God! Up Castro!

Fun in the sun, bay-bee! Fun in the sun...!

God would die.
Because of the anti-matter/matter-combination-like effect of Chuck Norris's roundhouse kick meeting Fidel's beard?

Because of the anti-matter/matter-combination-like effect of Chuck Norris's roundhouse kick meeting Fidel's beard?
And the right hand rule. The pain starts at Chuck then curles to Castro. So the death gets channelled in the direction of your thumb, which is aimed square at God.

I hope their plans work well, and improve life for the citizens of their respective countries.

Well, why not.

As I understand it, none of these people is that bad - Castro is a bit of a bastard, but he's done a lot of good. Chavez is seriously trying to create an alternative to the US (and if you ignore his rhetoric, he's doing quite well), and I like Morales a lot.

So let's see whether their kind of FTA does well for their countries - and if it does, maybe the WTO can look into promoting that sort of deal to improve the lot of developing countries elsewhere.

Second, just because they are focusing on the Middle East, doesn't mean that South America is not a priority anymore. It is just less of a publicit priority,

Perhaps. We will have to see.

Overall, US intervention in Latin America has been significantly less blatant since the Nicaraguan revolution was drowned in blood. Using various economic pressures, of which there are plenty in this age of capitalist globalization, is neater and arouses less controversy. Those pressures don't seem to be working this time, though, so maybe they will go back to the old ways.

I'm skeptical if another Bush foreign policy adventure will be politically viable, unless the Democrats line up behind him.

We should do a "shock and awe" type of operation on the south american socialist countries.

In other words we should bomb the crap out of them :)

You know what, how dare they run their governments differently then the US. And uses their resources to help themselves!? Those could be making Americans richer. :mad:

You know what, how dare they run their governments differently then the US. And uses their resources to help themselves!? Those could be making Americans richer. :mad:
So you are willing to perticipate in my plan?:p

You know what, how dare they run their governments differently then the US. And uses their resources to help themselves!? Those could be making Americans richer. :mad:
yeah, that's white man's resources they're tapping into.

I hope their plans work well, and improve life for the citizens of their respective countries.
:eek: Noooo, it's spreading! That there is just more of that America-hating the OP is talking about. I guess... :p I kid, I kid!
:fluffle:

Bumped for thread recognition purposes.

They tried in Venezuela and they tried in Haiti. They failed twice, though in the latter case it could be argued that the failure was only partial.Well, there's the coup in Chile, and the current huge amounts of funding to Colombia to exterminate anti-US populations there.

The day socialists begin to like America is the day I get worried.

Me too. Scary times.

Not to be a cynic, but it's just a matter of time before the next military coup throws the region into chaos again.

The USA-supported coup in Venezuela utterly failed in 2002, because the people of Venezuela stood up, kicked the putschits, and put back their elected governement in power.

We are not in the 70s anymore, and people know their history. It won't be that easy to make Chavez or Morales suffer the same fate than Allende.

The problem with totalitarian governments is that eventually somebody thinks they should be king of the mountain instead.

Totalitarian ? That could apply to Cuba, but definitely not to Venezuela or Bolivia.

Totalitarian ? That could apply to Cuba, but definitely not to Venezuela or Bolivia.This may be true, but I am uncomfortable with the crackdowns on free speech that Chavez is initiating.

This may be true, but I am uncomfortable with the crackdowns on free speech that Chavez is initiating.You're not alone. It gives a hollow ring to all the lofty goals he has.

Still one thing is certain: they're far, far better off with him, than with US exploitation.

I don't honestly see most Latin American countries joining this alliance. There's too many benefits in trading with America for those countries who don't care so much about their own traditions.

According to polls, the Sandinastas are about to win the next elections (2007) in Nacaragua, and Chavez already signed ALBA-like agrements with some Sandinastas cities.

In Ecuador, recent polls showed that a 55% to 60% majority would like a Chavez-like president, and the popular pressure forced the current governement to stop negociations with USA. They'll have elections soon, we'll see what will happen.

In Mexico, USA-supporter Vincente Fox is about to lose the elections. The Sub-Commander Marcos and his Zapatistas followers are more and more popular in the country.

In Argentina, Brasil and Chile, moderate-left governement are in power, undecided, but they sided more with Chavez than with Bush on the latest America's submit.

So well, South America seems to be following ALBA more than ALCA, those days. And I have good hope it'll be even further in this direction during the next few years :)

Whoo-hoo!

Erm... except for Castro which of them is totalitarian? The other two (at least as far as I know) have been elected.
Hitler was elected, in a semi-fair election as well.
Thats more than can be said for Chavez.

So let's see whether their kind of FTA does well for their countries - and if it does, maybe the WTO can look into promoting that sort of deal to improve the lot of developing countries elsewhere.

It's not really a FTA. Classical FTA put the countries, populations, social systems, tax systems, ... in competition, resulting to a downward spiral. ALBA is the opposite of competition: it's providing to each other what we have and the other don't have, helping each other, and without competiting against each other.

For WTO, the goal of WTO is to allow capital owners to maximize their profits - they don't care at all about poverty and anything related. ALBA is the ennemy of WTO, as much as anything can be its ennemy.

Overall, US intervention in Latin America has been significantly less blatant since the Nicaraguan revolution was drowned in blood. Using various economic pressures, of which there are plenty in this age of capitalist globalization, is neater and arouses less controversy. Those pressures don't seem to be working this time, though, so maybe they will go back to the old ways.

Well, they did try to overthrow Chavez with a coup, in 2002. It failed miserably when the people of Venezuela revolted and asked their elected president back.

I'm not sure if they'll try something like that again, but it would not surprise me at all.

This may be true, but I am uncomfortable with the crackdowns on free speech that Chavez is initiating.

Well, you should be very careful to what you hear on the mass-media.

In Venezuela, nearly all the media are strongly, openly against Chavez. All the privates TV channels are, for example. They supported the coup openly, lied on many crucial times, and never had in trouble from Chavez.

Chavez passed a bill granting him a tiny bit more of control on the media, but it's only to prevent the most gross abuses, like when people call for the murder of the President or other officials - such calls are illegal in most, if not all, countries, already, so there is nothing to worry about, IMHO.

Hitler was elected, in a semi-fair election as well.

That's false. Hitler never won an election. Hitler "only" had 30% on the last elections. If Hitler raised to power, it's because the "moderate" right sided with him to crush the communists, voting the "enabling act". Not because the german voted for him.

Thats more than can be said for Chavez.

Chavez won 9 elections in 8 years, with a 55% majority most of the time. Elections were controlled by international observers, including the Carter Center, which declared them to be fair - something that can't be said for US elections.

Well, you should be very careful to what you hear on the mass-media.

In Venezuela, nearly all the media are strongly, openly against Chavez. All the privates TV channels are, for example. They supported the coup openly, lied on many crucial times, and never had in trouble from Chavez.

Chavez passed a bill granting him a tiny bit more of control on the media, but it's only to prevent the most gross abuses, like when people call for the murder of the President or other officials - such calls are illegal in most, if not all, countries, already, so there is nothing to worry about, IMHO.Do you consider National Geographic magazine to be mass media?

According to polls, the Sandinastas are about to win the next elections (2007) in Nacaragua, and Chavez already signed ALBA-like agrements with some Sandinastas cities.

I would love to see how the US media reacts to a Sandinista victory in Nicaragua.

They really should get rid of Ortega, though.

Do you consider National Geographic magazine to be mass media?

Well, not really, and overall they make good quality stuff, but they shouldn't be trusted blindly either - don't forget that the National Geographic TV channel was made in partnership with... "News Corporation", the Murdoch empire, owners of Fox News.