NationStates Jolt Archive

One of the arguments is that Mexicans are taking jobs we don't want. As an American, do you think you're too good to wash dishes, mow yards, or pluck fruit?

Why hire uppity, overpriced Americans from the USA, when you can hire meek, scared illegal Americans from outside the US to work for a pittance? If citizens of the US wanted to be meek, scared, and work for a pittance, with no benefits or labour protections, I'm sure they'd be filling those jobs too. It's not that they're not good enough for anyone, but rather, only the desparate would work that hard, for so little.

Yeah. Mexicans, on the other hand, are genetically better suited to do menial, dirty tasks. In fact that's when they're happiest.
.................................................................................................... .................................................................................................... .................................................................................................... .................................................................................................... .................................................................................................... .................................................................................................... .............................................................:rolleyes: .................................................................................................... .................................................................................................... .................................................................................................... .................................................................................................... ................................................I'm being sarcastic by the way. I really don't need a string of posts calling me racist.

I don't feel myself above that, nor should any American. The reason illegals will always get hired is no minimum wage laws on people who aren't supposed to be here, so it is most profitable for businesses to hire workers who can be paid ten to twenty times less than normal.

One of the arguments is that Mexicans are taking jobs we don't want. As an American, do you think you're too good to wash dishes, mow yards, or pluck fruit?


That is just propaganda put out by big business to try and justify hiring illegal immigrants.

By the way, who is throwing out our garbage? You know driving around those big smelly trucks with flies everywhere? Or the sewers? Who's cleaning up those? Or the portta potties? The answer may shock you! ;)

I don't feel myself above that, nor should any American. The reason illegals will always get hired is no minimum wage laws on people who aren't supposed to be here, so it is most profitable for businesses to hire workers who can be paid ten to twenty times less than normal.

Plus they can treatin to have them deported if they complain about anything. for example, long hours, low pay, or unsafe working conditions. No need for the business worry about saftey If the illegal worker gets hurt they will not report it for fear of being deported.

I used to mow lawns in high school.

I mowed lawns as a teenager in the late 70's early 80's. Was making about $40 a day. Damn good money for a punk kid back then. Also picked berries, string beans and flowers as a punk kid. Was hard work but it made for good work ethic. Of course the child labor laws changed things. One part of the problem today.
I do today still wash dishes in my restuarant. That is of course when my illegal alien dishwasher is out protesting. ;) Everyone that I employ is legal! Thought I need to throw that disclaimer in there....

I mow my lawn, I mow my neighbor's lawn.
I made $10 for about a half hours work today in fact! :):)

By the way, who is throwing out our garbage? You know driving around those big smelly trucks with flies everywhere? Or the sewers? Who's cleaning up those? Or the portta potties? The answer may shock you! ;)

The guys driving the garbage trucks in my city are union city employee's making $23 an hour.

The sewers also taken care of by city workers. I assume they do as well as the garbage haulers.

Porta potties. To be honest I have only seen regular old Americans dealing with those. Most likely would have to pay well in order for them to deal with it.

I don't feel myself above that, nor should any American. The reason illegals will always get hired is no minimum wage laws on people who aren't supposed to be here, so it is most profitable for businesses to hire workers who can be paid ten to twenty times less than normal.


Absolutely correct. Business is half to blame for this problem.

Most people don't want to do those jobs, and many of those who are available to work in those occupations don't want to; therefore, immigrants are hired because they are willing to do the work and in most cases do the job as well or better than a comparative American applicant.

In a freely competitive labor market it makes sense to hire the immigrant if an employer knows that they will do an equal or better job for equal or less pay; the only time that is wrong is when employers take advantage of illegal status or language barriers to pay wages and benefits below market price.

One of the basic concepts of economics is supply and demand. Imagine an America where there are no "illegal immigrants" to do the jobs "we don't want to do."

The services still need to be performed, but nobody wants to do them. The result? Employers are forced to:

1) Raise wages/benefits so the job becomes an attractive opportunity
2) Find some way to automate the process via technology/innovation/etc

You're also assuming that the "illegal immigrants" will want to come into the country, do the jobs "we don't want to do," and be satisfied to continue doing them and have their children grow up doing them. Illegal immigration is a short-sighted, temporary setback to our society's evolution.

A group of uneducated immigrants may sneak into our country and perform these menial jobs, but they're not going to want their children that they're sending to our public schools without (necessarily) paying taxes and refusing to assimilate into our culture as countless other generations of immigrants (including all of our parents' ancestry) were forced to.

One of the arguments is that Mexicans are taking jobs we don't want. As an American, do you think you're too good to wash dishes, mow yards, or pluck fruit?
I washed dishes at two restaurants in high school and college and I did landscaping for $10.00/hour in college so, no, I don't think I'm too good. I also washed boats for $6.00/hour and even cleaned up dog shit in jr. high for $6.00/hour for a company called Doggy Doo.

As an American, I do not feel I am above those jobs. I paint my own house, I take care of my own yard, and I used to work for a landscaping company when I was in high school, and I also worked in a hotel kitchen in college.

MOST Americans though, hypocritical as they are, DO feel they are above those kinds of jobs, they just won't admit it. Its easy to blame the businesses and say "they would rather pay for cheap labor", but the truth is, there is a glaring class system here in America, and immigrants have always been at the bottom of it.

Its funny since this country is made up ENTIRELY of immigrants, except for the Native Americans. EVERY PERSON in America can somehow trace their families origins to a foreign land. So all of these shameful, idiotic Americans crying patriotism and "protect our borders" are basically full of shit.

; the only time that is wrong is when employers take advantage of illegal status or language barriers to pay wages and benefits below market price.


This is the problem. Employers need to be responsible and held accountable. If they don't hire them than they wouldn't continue to come illegally.

The guys driving the garbage trucks in my city are union city employee's making $23 an hour.

The sewers also taken care of by city workers. I assume they do as well as the garbage haulers.

Porta potties. To be honest I have only seen regular old Americans dealing with those. Most likely would have to pay well in order for them to deal with it.

But who are the city workers?? :) US Citizens. Legal US Citizens

Plus I thought cleaning up other people's sh!t would be below most Americans! lol!

As an American, I do not feel I am above those jobs. I paint my own house, I take care of my own yard, and I used to work for a landscaping company when I was in high school, and I also worked in a hotel kitchen in college.

MOST Americans though, hypocritical as they are, DO feel they are above those kinds of jobs, they just won't admit it. Its easy to blame the businesses and say "they would rather pay for cheap labor", but the truth is, there is a glaring class system here in America, and immigrants have always been at the bottom of it.

Its funny since this country is made up ENTIRELY of immigrants, except for the Native Americans. EVERY PERSON in America can somehow trace their families origins to a foreign land. So all of these shameful, idiotic Americans crying patriotism and "protect our borders" are basically full of shit.

Um you forget one VERY important detail!
"We" came here legally. Remember Ellis Island? Sure we came from a different land, but the majority did it not by hopping over a fence breaking the law. They did it legally through a long process with US Citizenship!

One of the arguments is that Mexicans are taking jobs we don't want. As an American, do you think you're too good to wash dishes, mow yards, or pluck fruit?


My dad is the boss of a landscaping company. That company employes around 20 people. ALL of them are white. The company is a multi-million-dollar business and pays its empolyees well. All the ILLEGAL immigrants do is undercut that and work for less, increase crime (they have a higher crime rate), overburden the health-care system, etc.

It is a myth perpetuated by big business to try and justify hiring people who illegally came here and cut everyone who had the decency to wait patiently in line to come here.

I don't think it is a matter of whether or not Americans think they are too good for it; hell, I was a dishwasher my first year in college(im only a junior so dont get the wrong idea) to help pay the bills--you do what it takes to get by. I think the fact at hand here is that individuals and companies would rather hire Mexian workers and the like to do these menial jobs over Americans because they can get away with paying them less monetarily and in benefits than they could with Americans. I also think a lot of immigrants, particularly those coming from impoversihed countries--have as stronger work ethic and greater motivation to retain any and all forms of employment than do Americans; as the wealthiest nation and the largest consumer in the world,we are used to getting a whole lot of things served to us on a silver platter. So, Mexicans and other immigrants workers are preferred over Americans because you can 'get more bang for your buck' so to speak. Those are just some of my thoughts and observations so take them as you will. :p

My dad is the boss of a landscaping company. That company employes around 20 people. ALL of them are white. The company is a multi-million-dollar business and pays its empolyees well. All the ILLEGAL immigrants do is undercut that and work for less, increase crime (they have a higher crime rate), overburden the health-care system, etc.

It is a myth perpetuated by big business to try and justify hiring people who illegally came here and cut everyone who had the decency to wait patiently in line to come here.

Lets not forget our soon to be bankrupt Social Security! I give it a few more years, then watch the Democrates and Republicans try to explain how that came about. 12 million more added to it, plus the soon to be retiring baby-boomers? Lord, we are in trouble. Start saving your money under yur beds!

Lets not forget our soon to be bankrupt Social Security! I give it a few more years, then watch the Democrates and Republicans try to explain how that came about. 12 million more added to it, plus the soon to be retiring baby-boomers? Lord, we are in trouble. Start saving your money under yur beds!

Sadly that is also true. And another 6,000 come over daily! Didn't Bush say he was going to protect America? When he started office there were only 3,000 illegals daily. Also there have been I think 2 cases of business being punished for hiring illegals under his term, and it was more like 400 and something under Clinton!

Sadly that is also true. And another 6,000 come over daily! Didn't Bush say he was going to protect America? When he started office there were only 3,000 illegals daily. Also there have been I think 2 cases of business being punished for hiring illegals under his term, and it was more like 400 and something under Clinton!

I have heard liberals in my very own college say a large wall will never keep them out! Uh.... it seems to be working in Isreal, and China.
Berlin wall was to keep people in!

I washed dishes at two restaurants in high school and college and I did landscaping for $10.00/hour in college so, no, I don't think I'm too good. I also washed boats for $6.00/hour and even cleaned up dog shit in jr. high for $6.00/hour for a company called Doggy Doo.

You live a sad life:(

I have heard liberals in my very own college say a large wall will never keep them out! Uh.... it seems to be working in Isreal, and China.
Berlin wall was to keep people in!

It won't keep them out! They will dig tunnles and swim over. I think we should all pack our bags and move to the moon, all 280 or so million of us. They won't be able to get us there....;)

I just have one question to ask them.
Do they lock their doors at night?
Do they have fences around their yards? :)

But who are the city workers?? :) US Citizens. Legal US Citizens

Plus I thought cleaning up other people's sh!t would be below most Americans! lol!

The majority of the garbage drivers are white and black. I'm sure there are a few latino's. But would bet a $1000 they are all legal.

Also don't know how old you are. You can get people to shovel shit if it pays enough.

This is the problem. Employers need to be responsible and held accountable. If they don't hire them than they wouldn't continue to come illegally.

Absolutely. Legal immigration is necessary for us to avert the upcoming demographic crisis that will be caused by the retirement of the boomers and the rapid rise in costs for Social Security and Medicare, but illegal immigration costs us money and hurts legal immigrants as well as naturalized workers.

You live a sad life:(

Sounded to me like he knows what work is.

Sadly that is also true. And another 6,000 come over daily! Didn't Bush say he was going to protect America? When he started office there were only 3,000 illegals daily. Also there have been I think 2 cases of business being punished for hiring illegals under his term, and it was more like 400 and something under Clinton!

It isnt true that illegals are the only reason of the social security collapse. Most of it is that Baby-boomers are relying on social security money.

It isnt true that illegals are the only reason of the social security collapse. Most of it is that Baby-boomers are relying on social security money.
Well, 12 million who havent contributed all these years all of a sudden jumping on board and reaping the full benefits cant be good either!

It isnt true that illegals are the only reason of the social security collapse. Most of it is that Baby-boomers are relying on social security money.

Firstly, It wasn't I that was talking about social security, I merely agreed to what someone said about it. And I do not believe they listed that as the SOLE reason of the collapse. I do not remember reading in any post anyone claiming it was the only reason...but a contributing factor it is.

One of the arguments is that Mexicans are taking jobs we don't want. As an American, do you think you're too good to wash dishes, mow yards, or pluck fruit?


No. My first job I worked sanitation at a turkey plant (Perdue Farms). When I started there we had 5 latinos from various countries. By the time I quit out of our crew of 44 we had no less than 20. Now five years later there are 4 Americans.

Granted it was fairly tough to get Americans that could and would do the job, but it's fairly tough to get anyone who can. The company just decided it's easier to hire illegals because they don't take as many sick days in general. They don't usually organize and strike, there's no threat of them becoming unionized.

One of the arguments is that Mexicans are taking jobs we don't want. As an American, do you think you're too good to wash dishes, mow yards, or pluck fruit?
No, and I think Americans need to do that labour more in fact.

Many Americans would do any of the work, but why pay someone $6 per hour when you can pay someone about $1.50, and don't have to pay taxes. We are very hard working, one of the hardest work people in the world. Other countries under bid us by cheap labor and very poor working conditions, no we are not too proud to do the job, but others are too stupid to realize they are being F*cked over.:upyours: :upyours:

People will use economic arguments and counter arguments andl continue to circle each other for another few decades. I must admit both sides make valid points. We need cheap labor. People need jobs. Social security is majorly screwed. (side note: they really ought to have kept that surplus a few years ago instead of multiple tax breaks. It porbably would have given us a few more decades to dither.)

The economic issues both mask and are at the root of the problem. This is just another revanchism of nativist American xenophobia. (No I didn't just call you racist!!!) :rolleyes: Well, not quite.

Do you know any good Polack jokes? What do you do with a drunken Irishman? Now them damn dangoes, wetback, greasers are wanting to come to the land of the brave and free...:headbang: AND people want to keep them out?:D

We Americans have been embarassed by the promise so irresponsibly and freely given to fellow foriegners by that tall French Lady in New Jersey ever since she immigrated here. She is flamboyant and sophisitacated, and very, very French. And yet she is iconic, a touchstone to the American phyche. (sigh: we fight our sister republic so mush because she is/was so much like us amercan chauvinism and french high culture are two sides of the same jingoistic coin) To paraphrase the promise engraved by Liberte's: Give us your bums and rifraff!! We will make good 'ole American hillbillies out of 'em. :D

Hey, I LIKE hillbillies. What do you think the Brits thought of our Founding Fathers? My sister married into one of those Scots-Irish clans and I hope my nephew grows up to be a good Jeffersonian Hillbilly.

I hope that this idyllic American Dream will not turn into a dystopic land. Then again if it does become one for awhile I don't think it will stay one. Heck look at the 50s. They passed into the beautifally decadent hedonism of the '60s.

Oh yeah, one other note. We made more than a couple of those drunken no good Catholic Irishmen into senators...if I recall correctly wasn't one our modern day "beatified-by-assasination saint" Presidents one?

By the way, who is throwing out our garbage? You know driving around those big smelly trucks with flies everywhere? Or the sewers? Who's cleaning up those? Or the portta potties? The answer may shock you! ;)

The NSA...?

You live a sad life
Sounded to me like he knows what work is.

Exactly. Since when did hard work = sad?

And you can add me to the list of lawn mowers.

Not that I support the introduction of illegal immigrants, but their work helps keeps prices down.


It also keeps me from getting a job.

One of the arguments is that Mexicans are taking jobs we don't want. As an American, do you think you're too good to wash dishes, mow yards, or pluck fruit?


No. the reason those jobs aren't wanted is because of the pay not the work. And I would have taken any of them last summer. Illegal immigrants drag down wages.

However, I'm anti-immigration mainly because overpopulation is a burden on the environment, not because of economics. Hell, I don't give a damn about economies if they're at odds with the protection of the Earth.

Also, pretty much no other country would pander to those who move there illegally. Or at least I'd be very surpised if it did.

as an american i'm not too good to do any of these things, i've even DONE all of them, including one you didn't mention, track laborer on the railroad (the majority of track labourers where i live and worked were of mexcican decent).

unfortunately NONE of them PAY A LIVING WAGE i.e. none of them (other then track labour which is unionized) pay enough to pay the rent, buy groceries, pay taxes, own a car, or any of the things americans expect of themselves and each other not to be treated like a second class citizen or even stay off welfare!

this enables employers to hurd low income, legal or not, workers into defacto slave like conditions with often and usualy extremely sub-standard housing and little or no concern for their saftey on the job or in the labour camps.

this in turn makes it nearly impossible for their children to even GET to school, let alone have the nutrition to be able to concentrate and learn.

america doesn't need a great wall of berlin, what it needs is to use it's influence, instead of creating a world in which corporatocracy can get away with envirnomental murder, must pay at least a living wage wherever it goes and wherever it emplyoes anyone everywhere.

america was never better off then when the unions were at their strongest, and seldom, if ever, worse off, then since the union busting that began with rotten ronny raygun.

any soverign nation may have the right to build walls, but i don't know about you, but i wouldn't call "free" any one that does.

=^^=
.../\...

Well, 12 million who havent contributed all these years all of a sudden jumping on board and reaping the full benefits cant be good either!

I think that a ridiculous war that's costing the USA billions, all of which needs to come from somewhere, and it's seemingly coming from Social Welfare, Education, Healthcare etc. is more to blame than illegal immingrants.

Um you forget one VERY important detail!
"We" came here legally. Remember Ellis Island? Sure we came from a different land, but the majority did it not by hopping over a fence breaking the law. They did it legally through a long process with US Citizenship!


You obviously need to brush up on your Amercian history. But thats another matter...:rolleyes:

Did anyone ever think, instead of vilifying these immigrants that SUDDENLY ARE A BURDEN (???) shouldnt we be holding their HOME countries goverments responsible as well? What are their goverments back home NOT doing for these people, and are they in fact encouraging them to jump our fence?

The fact is these immigrants, over 11 million of them ,are not going anywhere. They are here, they should pay a penalty of back taxes, and issued their green cards. Then they should start paying taxes and only then should they recieve social services. No one in their right mind can actually believe that ANY country in the world is going to deport 11 million+ people, thats ludicrous.

This is just another smokescreen debate, designed to steer the ignorant American masses away from the REAL problems in this country, namely our government being run by criminals comiting genocide and sending our soldiers to their deaths, in the name of Democracy, and for oil.

You obviously need to brush up on your Amercian history. But thats another matter...:rolleyes:

Did anyone ever think, instead of vilifying these immigrants that SUDDENLY ARE A BURDEN (???) shouldnt we be holding their HOME countries goverments responsible as well? What are their goverments back home NOT doing for these people, and are they in fact encouraging them to jump our fence?

The fact is these immigrants, over 11 million of them ,are not going anywhere. They are here, they should pay a penalty of back taxes, and issued their green cards. Then they should start paying taxes and only then should they recieve social services. No one in their right mind can actually believe that ANY country in the world is going to deport 11 million+ people, thats ludicrous.

This is just another smokescreen debate, designed to steer the ignorant American masses away from the REAL problems in this country, namely our government being run by criminals comiting genocide and sending our soldiers to their deaths, in the name of Democracy, and for oil.

I agree actually. The only way to fix the problem is to fix the conditions in the countries they emigrate from, and to heavily punish employers who use them.

I remember when a slaughter house job was one of the best for unskilled woukers. That was only about 25 years ago. IBP busted the unions in the middle of the Reagan recession when people were desparate for jobs. After that they just kept paying less and less. A slaughter house job now pays less than it did 25 years ago. Of course the minimum wage wasn't raised from the time that Reagan was elected until Clinton was elected--12 years. Then it was raise once and hasn't been raised for 10 more years. Why? Because of supply and demand. We allow the supply of cheap unskilled labor to be limitless, yet people with college degrees can't come in a compete with the top.

I would chang that 180 degrees. Everyone with a college diploma gets an automatic green card. Anyone with less than high school, that doesn't speak English gets shipped back.

Of course I haven't seen one law in 25 years of "religious right" rule that benefitted the poor and weak over the rich and powerful.

One of the arguments is that Mexicans are taking jobs we don't want. As an American, do you think you're too good to wash dishes, mow yards, or pluck fruit?
That's an argument only people ignorant of the way things work use. Unfortunately, that seems to be a great many people.

Cheap illegal immigrants seem great for a capitalist economy like America. So why half the conservative are protesting them is beyond me.

One of the arguments is that Mexicans are taking jobs we don't want. As an American, do you think you're too good to wash dishes, mow yards, or pluck fruit?

When I was in high school, I shoveled shit, milked cows, and baled hay for $5/hour, so no, I don't think I'm too good for that kind of job (I just prefer to have a better paying job than that).

Last time I checked, this is America, not Mexico. Americans should be doing our jobs, not Mexicans. It seems to me these illiegal lovers think this country was founded on harding working immigrants when it wasnt. It was founded by hard working Americans and I will be damned if I am gonna start speaking Spanish just to live in my country which is America and has always been like that.

One of the arguments is that Mexicans are taking jobs we don't want. As an American, do you think you're too good to wash dishes, mow yards, or pluck fruit?

Too good? Nah. But I do have an education that means I can find better work than that. I suppose it'd be different if I'd had to run from my home country to avoid oppression and poverty...

Meh. I did all of those jobs at one point or another. I was paid $5.15 for mowing lawns and doing dishes. I was paid $2.50 per flat of 16 quarts of strawberries. I did dishes and lawns from the ages of 16 to 18, and strawberries from 14 to 18.

I also worked at the family farm from the age of 8 to 16, shovelling shit, feeding the animals, baling hay, that sort of thing. All I got paid for that was room and board.

I would rather NOT do those jobs (just like anyone else) but if that's what's available, that's what's available.