NationStates Jolt Archive

...all of us real Americans must unite and show the Mexicans and such that we can do better without them. Everyone must pitch in and pick fruit and mow lawns together. We must show that we will not be shut down because they came here illegally and won't learn our language.

I wonder if all the landscapers will walk off the job on Monday...there might actually be a quiet day for once...maybe there are benefits.

Anyway, to the real honest immigrants and hard-working Hispanics that actually learn English and assimilated, stay on the job and show that you won't associtate with criminals who want to bring about self-segregation.

To the protesters and boycotters: I thought ethnic ties are broken when you step into America.

To the protesters and boycotters: I thought ethnic ties are broken when you step into America.

I'll remember that next St. Patrick's Day.

*Points and laughs* :D

Oh yeah. Mowing your own lawn is such a show of strength! Such radicalism! Down with the System! :rolleyes:

As an American, who happens not to be a citizen of the US, I will be showing my solidarity with all the working people on May 1st, as I have since I was too young to walk on my own, regardless of the ethnicity of said workers.

*Points and laughs* :D

Oh yeah. Mowing your own lawn is such a show of strength! Such radicalism! Down with the System! :rolleyes:

"Hey, Sue, Dick, look at me! I can mow my lawn for one day out of three hundred and sixty five!"

To the protesters and boycotters: I thought ethnic ties are broken when you step into America.
You thought wrong. After all, they still speak English there, don't they? That's an ethnic tie to the old country.

To the protesters and boycotters: I thought ethnic ties are broken when you step into America.
Well, that explains the "what is your ethnicity" threads which are filled with people telling us how German, or Irish, or Italian they are.

As an American, who happens not to be a citizen of the US, I will be showing my solidarity with all the working people on May 1st, as I have since I was too young to walk on my own, regardless of the ethnicity of said workers.

As a non-American, I agree with Sinuhue :)

On May 1st, I'll demonstrate, with hundred of thousands of french workers, for the defense of our social system against this insane governement, who is still trying to govern against the will of the people and to break the rights of all - from the french workers to the immigrants to the retired to the kids (well, to everyone who don't have millions on his bank account).

As a non-American, I agree with Sinuhue :)

On May 1st, I'll demonstrate, with hundred of thousands of french workers, for the defense of our social system against this insane governement, who is still trying to govern against the will of the people and to break the rights of all - from the french workers to the immigrants to the retired to the kids (well, to everyone who don't have millions on his bank account).

Other countries are grateful for you destroying the competitiveness of your economy. :D

Other countries are grateful for you destroying the competitiveness of your economy. :D
Yeah, it's only like, one of the biggest in the world, it's only got a few companies that are global players, and the fact that these days they build half the substations in the UK (the rest by other EU corporations) is just my imagination.

Other countries are grateful for you destroying the competitiveness of your economy. :D
Actually, other countries are full of other workers who are fighting to have the same kind of standards that French workers have. Many are also filled with resentment that they don't already have these rights, but are led to blame those that do, rather than those who have kept them from such rights.

May 1st is a day to overcome that divisiveness and show solidarity with ALL workers, regardless of their particular circumstances, with the intention of improving the working conditions for EVERYONE, not just a few.

You want me to work? And get dirty.. or use effort? Are you serious?

*snaps fingers*

Maria, consigue la escopeta.

Actually, other countries are full of other workers who are fighting to have the same kind of standards that French workers have. Many are also filled with resentment that they don't already have these rights, but are led to blame those that do, rather than those who have kept them from such rights.

May 1st is a day to overcome that divisiveness and show solidarity with ALL workers, regardless of their particular circumstances, with the intention of improving the working conditions for EVERYONE, not just a few.

Sure, but this rally is set to keep French youth unemployment as amongst the highest in the world.

I know very little of the rallies, just that our post-Thatcherism press is critical of them.

As an American, who happens not to be a citizen of the US, I will be showing my solidarity with all the working people on May 1st, as I have since I was too young to walk on my own, regardless of the ethnicity of said workers.

I thought you were an Indian? :p

Sure, but this rally is set to keep French youth unemployment as amongst the highest in the world. You mean the rally meant to protest the proposed erosion of worker's rights by making it legal to fire youths at any time, for any cocked-up reason within a two year probationary period? You are claiming the actual motive is to support unemployment. Interesting.

I know very little of the rallies, just that our post-Thatcherism press is critical of them.
Get your info elsewhere.

I thought you were an Indian? :p
With a feather, not a dot.

...all of us real Americans must unite and show the Mexicans a

What exactly is a "real" american?

I am sorry to ask....but where do you live lad?

You mean the rally meant to protest the proposed erosion of worker's rights by making it legal to fire youths at any time, for any cocked-up reason within a two year probationary period? You are claiming the actual motive is to support unemployment. Interesting.
It is promoted as such. As I understand it, French companies are beginning to struggle with the extremely strong rights which their employees have. Like I said, I really know very little.
Get your info elsewhere.
But I like Newsnight.

I hope the immigrant workers, regardless of how they are defined by the illegitimate laws imposed on them by an illegitimate state, shut down the country. They should show the rulers with their callousness and greed exactly how much power they have.

Damn. I was hoping this thread was about the new Tool album. :(

On May 1st, I'll be outside my local record shop at 9am, waiting to buy it. Meh. I'm looking forward to the Mayday riots. Always good fun to see people finding an excuse to smash up major cities. Morons.

On May 1st I will proudly do nothing at all out of the ordinary in solidarity with everyone who thinks that both sides are being assholes. The US government needs to reduce the barriers to legal immigration, and the illegals and their supporters need to STFU and apply for citizenship or leave.

Damn. I was hoping this thread was about the new Tool album. :(

On May 1st, I'll be outside my local record shop at 9am, waiting to buy it. Meh. I'm looking forward to the Mayday riots. Always good fun to see people finding an excuse to smash up major cities. Morons.

Maybe in the ensuing riot, you can get your album for free. I think Tool would approve.

It is promoted as such. As I understand it, French companies are beginning to struggle with the ridiculously strong rights which their employees have. Like I said, I really know very little.

It's not that their right are too strong, it's that the risk of hiring someone new is too high. The problem with the proposed system is that it would create a second class (or third class) of worker, one that is pretty much dispossable.

Mind you, the reform was for only certain types of public jobs, but there's a very sizable portion of the French population that aspire to those jobs. There already are two classes of worker in France, one very dynamic and mobile, and those who aspire, and feel entitled to, an easy government job for life.

France needs to reform that system, but without creating more layers. France will eventually reform, like it always does: noisily.

Damn. I was hoping this thread was about the new Tool album. :(

Tool have a new album?

Tool have a new album?
The first single off of it is already being played on the radio.

On May 1st I will proudly do nothing at all out of the ordinary in solidarity with everyone who thinks that both sides are being assholes. The US government needs to reduce the barriers to legal immigration, and the illegals and their supporters need to STFU and apply for citizenship or leave.
I realise this year is supposed to be different than other Maydays for some of you in the US...but is it generally a custom of yours, and of people that you know to not participate in any Mayday labour activities?

Maybe in the ensuing riot, you can get your album for free. I think Tool would approve.
Eh...I don't think Leicester is going to be that affected by rioting. Sadly. Not at 9 in the morning anyway.

Tool have a new album?
Indeed they do. It's out today (28th) in Germany and Belgium, tomorrow in Australia, the 1st in the UK and the 2nd in the US. I'm listening to it as I type. It's bloody good...gets better with each listen, as any good album should.

I realise this year is supposed to be different than other Maydays for some of you in the US...but is it generally a custom of yours, and of people that you know to not participate in any Mayday labour activities?

The USA has Labor day (whenever that is) instead of May day (as an anti-comunist statement?)

It is promoted as such. As I understand it, French companies are beginning to struggle with the extremely strong rights which their employees have. Like I said, I really know very little.

The controversy is over employment contracts aimed at students. It says nothing about the French economy - which is actually an industrial powerhourse which vastly surpasses Britain. Fundamentally, the whole argument is over McJobs. In France, a restaurant or warehouse can't hire a student one month and fire him/her the next. The government's (over?)-regulation obliges employers to offer fixed-term contracts of around a year or two. This keeps the casual youth labour market low - how many times have you had a teenager serve you in a shop? - and is one of the reasons corporate high street enterprises of the sort seen in the UK, find the idea of competition in France unattractive.

On the one hand this may be viewed as a bad thing - in the US, UK and across Europe, casual part-time student labour and all the attendant bitching about working conditions, is practically a rite of passage. French young people have "massive unemployment" because the companies willing to offer low-wage no-job-security labour, are unable to do so.

On the other hand, the fact that those poor miserable unemployed students march in their millions to tell the government and service industries that they can stuff their shift work up their ass, suggests they really aren't that badly off in the first place.

And it has nothing to do with French industry, which frankly wtfpwns the UK inside the UK itself.

France needs to reform that system, but without creating more layers. France will eventually reform, like it always does: noisily.
And with much bread and wine, and a little cheese!

I realise this year is supposed to be different than other Maydays for some of you in the US...but is it generally a custom of yours, and of people that you know to not participate in any Mayday labour activities?
I think Mayday was discouraged during the cold war anticommunist thing. I don't remember ever participating in any may day activities or even hearing it mentioned in school until maybe high school.

The USA has Labor day (whenever that is) instead of May day (as an anti-comunist statement?)
Ah, whatever they call it. It's the same bloody day. I've yet to miss one. What is planned in your area? We've got lefty boys in radical cheerleading gear, ponytails, minis and all...let me guess...the Brasilian marches will include the samba?;)

The controversy is over employment contracts aimed at students. It says nothing about the French economy - which is actually an industrial powerhourse which vastly surpasses Britain.

[snip]

And it has nothing to do with French industry, which frankly wtfpwns the UK inside the UK itself.

What you are missing here TG is that the industry you are referring to is French owned, but does not actually function within France. The big French engineering companies have all of their production facilities in the third world.
So French capital wtfpwns UK capital, but French industry as in industrial production in France, is almost non existent.

Ah, whatever they call it. It's the same bloody day. I've yet to miss one. What is planned in your area? We've got lefty boys in radical cheerleading gear, ponytails, minis and all...but they must pale in comparison to the lovely brasilian crossdressers:)

Nothing. Come on this is Brazil where work is partying. If we have a holiday we stop and have a rest. (except carnaval)
And Labor day is the first Monday in September. It is not just a name change, it is a date change as well.

May first I'm going to march siting capitalist oppression, and for the rights of humans, for that is what we all are, not Americans, not Mexicans, but human.

I think Mayday was discouraged during the cold war anticommunist thing. I don't remember ever participating in any may day activities or even hearing it mentioned in school until maybe high school.
Wow. It's just one of those things I never thought about...for as long as I can remember, and likely even before, I've been aware that around the world, workers rally on this day. I guess I just assumed that was true for most in the US as well.:(

Nothing. Come on this is Brazil where work is partying. If we have a holiday we stop and have a rest. (except carnaval)
I still don't know why it isn't a holiday here.

I think Mayday was discouraged during the cold war anticommunist thing. I don't remember ever participating in any may day activities or even hearing it mentioned in school until maybe high school.

It was earlier than that. From the very beginning (1880s) the more moderate tendencies in the labor movement didn't like May Day's associations, and the government, naturally, backed such tendencies.

Today Labor Day is just an excuse for consumerism.

What you are missing here TG is that the industry you are referring to is French owned, but does not actually function within France. The big French engineering companies have all of their production facilities in the third world.
So French capital wtfpwns UK capital, but French industry as in industrial production in France, is almost non existent.
The project management is French. That cadre of professionals is pretty large in modern engineering companies. Although relatively little may be produced within France itself, the number of people employed by those companies within France is very large, and their contracts are better than those of their counterparts in more liberalised economies. I also wouldn't say third world, a lot of it is spread throughout the EU and Eastern Europe.

Today Labor Day is just an excuse for consumerism.
Oh yeah...for some reason I keep thinking that 'Labour Day' is in September or something...but I always hear about 'Labour Day Sales'. Great way to co-opt it.

The project management is French. That cadre of professionals is pretty large in modern engineering companies. Although relatively little may be produced within France itself, the number of people employed by those companies within France is very large, and their contracts are better than those of their counterparts in more liberalised economies. I also wouldn't say third world, a lot of it is spread throughout the EU and Eastern Europe.

OK, second and third world then. We have a lot here in Brazil.
Yes the professional grade people are employed in France. These are the people that can command decent conditions of employment anywhere. The unskilled labour, the grunt power, however is not.
Whether the contracts of the professionals are better than those elsewhere requires a case by case comparison. I would wager however, that they are better than some, and not as good as others. i.e normal.

Sure, but this rally is set to keep French youth unemployment as amongst the highest in the world.

Making it easier to fire people never reduced unemployment. They do it since years here, and unemployment is still growing - and the only time it reduced a bit was during the 1997-2002 period, when the gov was much more to the left than this one (but still center-left, saddly), and when they reduced the working time...

The only way to reduce unemployment with neoliberal reforms is to shrink so much the working rights than many workers would have living condition as bad as french unemployed have now, what a success ! Look in UK or USA, sure they have a low unemployment, but many workers are in utter poverty. 25% of UK workers are wanting to have 2 jobs at once, because one is not enough, and around 20% of US workers don't even have healthcare !

Thanks, I prefer the current situation in France - as far from perfect as it is.

On May 1st, the appropriate thing to do is go ona shopping spree.
That way we are to show that we can doo foir the most part without illegals.
Oh, and donate to the Minuteman.
That's what I plan to do.

It is promoted as such. As I understand it, French companies are beginning to struggle with the extremely strong rights which their employees have. Like I said, I really know very little.

We have strong worker rights compared to the world average, but workers are still in much weaker position than CEOs and stock holders within corporations.

And what's wrong with strong workers rights ? It's the workers who buy what the companies do, after all... strong workers rights is good for the economy, on the long term.

On the opposite, the ability to fire workers at will just makes the economy much more unstable: if things start to go bad for a reason, workers are fired, so they can't buy anymore, so the economy goes worse, and the state has less taxes and must cut the remaining social help, which depress the economy even more, and so on.

Do you know how South Korea recovered that quickly from the 90s asian crisis ? Because the state forbad the companies to fire workers ! So the downwards spiral was broken, and the companies were able to react quickly as soon as at it started to be a bit better.

Do you know how South Korea recovered that quickly from the 90s asian crisis ? Because the state forbad the companies to fire workers ! So the downwards spiral was broken, and the companies were able to react quickly as soon as at it started to be a bit better.
They also had IMF assistance. Besides, I was 7 in 1998, and I didn't take much interest in politics.

Amusing. I think the OP has it right. I think that everyone should step into the jobs of dem, durrn forinners. I can't wait to see all the rich people cleaning their own toilets, fixing their own roofs, mowing their own lawns, fixing their own Taco Bell (and Wendy's and McDonald's, etc.). It should be quite a treat. I wonder what they'll do when I'm sitting next to the busstand of the local TGI Friday's telling Biff to get me another Captain and Coke.

You do that mowing. You'll show them.

It's not that their right are too strong, it's that the risk of hiring someone new is too high.

That's utterly false. You can very easily fire someone if your company has real troubles. You can even often do it without troubles.

Even in France with the Working Code, it's still the workers, and not the stock owners, who suffer most of the risk.

Mind you, the reform was for only certain types of public jobs

If you are speaking of the recent giant protests, it was about a reform of all jobs in the private sector, it was not at all about the public sector.

but there's a very sizable portion of the French population that aspire to those jobs. There already are two classes of worker in France, one very dynamic and mobile, and those who aspire, and feel entitled to, an easy government job for life.

It's true that workers in the public domain have job security (unless they do grave offense, you can get kicked if you do a serious fault). But on the other hand, on qualified jobs, they have much lower pays than workers of the private sector. And for low-qualified jobs, saddly, the state often prefers to circumvum the law and employ people on private contracts, not as "fonctionnaires". So your two classes don't really hold. If you're skilled, you can either chose high pay or, if you pass the competitive exam to enter the "fonction publique", have a lower pay but job security. I wouldn't call that two classes (well, skilled/unskilled are classes, but that's the same everywhere - and it's even worse in countries with no or very low minimal wages).

The two classes are much more the usual ones: the working class and the bourgeoisie...

France needs to reform that system, but without creating more layers. France will eventually reform, like it always does: noisily.

Don't confuse reform and counter-reform. A reform is something that improves people's lives, liking the creation of the Social Security or of the Working Code were in 1944-1946. Breaking those to go back to the pre-ww2 era is not a reform, it's not going forward, but taking a big step backward: a counter-reform.

With a feather...

Kinky... :D
Sorry, had to.



As a dedicated capitalist, I would be shot for saying that I think the May First rallies for supporting workers rights is a good thing. But I'll say it anyways.

I think the May First rallies for supporting workers rights is a good thing.

HOWEVER, I do NOT support the use of the promotion of workers rights as an excuse to act as a massive "fuck you" to American culture (as much as it needs some fixing) and unity.

That's my two cents, anyways.

The government's (over?)-regulation obliges employers to offer fixed-term contracts of around a year or two.

Well, not exactly. There are two kinds of contracts: a CDI and a CDD.

The CDI ("contract of undefined duration") is the normal working contract, a contract that can't be breaken without a real reason after an initial "testing period" which has to be short (1 month for unskilled labour, up to 3 months for skilled jobs). After this period, you need to have a real justification to fire the worker (economical troubles, major fault of him, ...), and he can go to special courts ("prud'hommes") if he thinks the justification is false.

The CDD ("contract of defined duration") has a fixed duration, from one month to 18 months. The duration is known at the time the contract, and cannot be changed during the contract (allowing the worker to prepare himself). At the end of the contract, the employer must pay the worker a "precarity prime" of 10% of what he paid until then, to allow the worker to find a new job. There are limits on how much CDD you can make: if you take the same worker on several successive CDD (IIRC, 2 is ok, but not 3), the "prud'hommes" while consider it's an abuse, and convert the CDD to a CDI.

The new contract (CPE) had the best of both for employers, and the worse of both for workers: they could be fired without reason nor delay during the first 2 years. No fixed duration to plan your life, no job security. While they claimed it was to make it easier to employ people, the real reason was to be able to pressure them: "you refuse unpaid extra hours ? fired." "you refuse to work on sundays ? fired." "you are member of a union ? fired." and so on.

I'll admit though that I do find it amusing when illegal immigrants complain about not being treated like 'real' Americans while having a parade where everyone is carrying Mexican flags.

As a dedicated capitalist, I would be shot for saying that I think the May First rallies for supporting workers rights is a good thing. But I'll say it anyways.

Capitalism and workers' rights are not incompatible: most capitalists are, after all, workers.

They also had IMF assistance.

In most cases, IMF "assistance" made the country worse of afterwards, so you can't claim it was the reason. For one of the worst example, just look at Argentina. It's not always as horrible, but IMF did much more wrong than good.

In most cases, IMF "assistance" made the country worse of afterwards, so you can't claim it was the reason. For one of the worst example, just look at Argentina. It's not always as horrible, but IMF did much more wrong than good.

Well, they should go around invading our islands. :D

I'll admit though that I do find it amusing when illegal immigrants complain about not being treated like 'real' Americans while having a parade where everyone is carrying Mexican flags.

Precisely.

It's not workers rights they fight for. It's special treatment without the responsibility of citizenship.

I'm one of the oddest sorts in the US these days. I support completely open borders. However, I also say that any immigrant that comes to this country to live and work should do so with the idea that they will work toward citizenship. I believe that they should not receive any public assistance or benefits until they become citizens.

I live in a town that is fueled by illegal immigration. These people work hard. They show up every day for work and will walk, until they save enough for a car. They don't hold cleaning jobs or fast food jobs. That seems to be the realm of teenagers in this area. The illegals in this area work very hard physical factory jobs in the manufacturing sector. The employers in the area love to hire them because they are more reliable than the (excuse the phrase) white trash that also lives in the area. Local employers will send thier workers home (closing the plant) in order to avoid rumored INS inspections. Most of these people pay taxes because they have stolen SSNs. They should be afforded the ability to become citizens, IMO.

I also work with a woman who immigrated legally with her family from Hungary. She speaks English and knows more US history than most teenagers. She took her test and the oath of citizenship last month. I'm very proud of her and she is very proud to call herself an American.

So, why do I take a hardline against these protests? Because those participating in these demonstrations aren't showing how much they appreciate America. They are trying to cause economic hardship and telling people to treat May 1st as if it's a holiday (it is in Europe for some damn reason). They tell people to stay home when not at a demonstration to shoe how much power they have.
Why? They are demanding that they be given special status. They are demanding the priveliges of citizenship without the effort or responsibility of becoming a citizen. And they are using fear to do it. That is what I don't like.

God I'm long winded... Sorry

Precisely.

It's not workers rights they fight for. It's special treatment without the responsibility of citizenship.

Actually, no. I don't agree with that at all. I was just pointing out hypocrisy of the flag thing.

To your point, most illegals if asked would love to become legal citizens. It's not generally afforded them. So they are not fighting for special treatment but the same treatment everyone else in the borders of the country are allowed whether or not we give them citizenship.

I'll admit though that I do find it amusing when illegal immigrants complain about not being treated like 'real' Americans while having a parade where everyone is carrying Mexican flags.

Have you been to any of the rallies? I went to the one in Washington DC on April 10.

There were lots and lots of American flags. There were also some foreign flags. There is a point to bringing both. The idea is to say - look, we have our heritage, and we're proud of our heritage, but we love this country, too, and we deserve the same rights as everyone else.

And they're exactly right.

I would, but we don't have a lawn to mow. Besides, I'm going with my boyfriend to the DNA lab on May 1st to see if his Mexican wife's child is his or not so that they can have an uncontested divorce one way or another since they've already been seperated for ten years. Hurrah for the legal system! A paternity test only took ten years!!!

Have you been to any of the rallies? I went to the one in Washington DC on April 10.

There were lots and lots of American flags. There were also some foreign flags. There is a point to bringing both. The idea is to say - look, we have our heritage, and we're proud of our heritage, but we love this country, too, and we deserve the same rights as everyone else.

And they're exactly right.

I agree they deserve the same rights. But you also have to admit it's kind of funny to carry the flag of your old country while arguing that you're a real American.

They are the only group who won't assimilate and they are causing a sharp divide and causing me to hate them a little. And it's not even the ethnic group that does it unless you seperate South Americans as a different ethnic group.

Also, there are a lot of Puerto Ricans here who display the PR flag on their clothing. I just saw some girl today like that.

They apparently want to be seperated, so why don't we just seperate them. Those that are unintentionally caught in this mess can stay...illegals who don't want to have anything to do with this should be deported and allowed to return legally.

We could solve the illegalness of them by deporting them home and then allowing them to return legally if they choose to assimilate and won't be a burden on the US...

They are the only group who won't assimilate

evidence?

Alright. Here's what we do.

First, these demonstrations are idiotic. Though hardly all of them do this, there is a large fraction of illegals that refuse to truly assimilate into the culture of the United States and act as if they deserve anything and everything while simultaneously not doing anything. Further, they act so proud of Mexico I wonder why they bothered leaving in the first place.

That said, laws need to be changed so that it is easier for one to become a citizen of the United States. Similarly, we need to figure out how to enforce immigration laws so that we don't have the number of illegal immigrants we do.

Thusly, I think both the government and the demonstraters need a kick in the head.

I'll be boycotting all businesses on Monday in hopes of doing my part in these protests. I oppose US immigration policy, and until it changes, I'll be standing beside immigrants who come here for the good of their families. When things change though, I'm perfectly happy with more solid borders.

They are the only group who won't assimilate and they are causing a sharp divide and causing me to hate them a little. And it's not even the ethnic group that does it unless you seperate South Americans as a different ethnic group.

Also, there are a lot of Puerto Ricans here who display the PR flag on their clothing. I just saw some girl today like that.

They apparently want to be seperated, so why don't we just seperate them. Those that are unintentionally caught in this mess can stay...illegals who don't want to have anything to do with this should be deported and allowed to return legally.

We could solve the illegalness of them by deporting them home and then allowing them to return legally if they choose to assimilate and won't be a burden on the US...

Can't think of any other groups that do this? Hmmmm... how about the polish in Chicago. The Irish parades? There are dozens of examples. They are the fringes. The majority of aliens come here because they believe they can live better in the US.

Dunno about elsewhere, but May 1 is celebrated as Labour Day in India.

Proletariat of the world, unite !!!

...and won't learn our language.
ROFLMAO!!! You guys don't even have an "official language" buddy! So why learn?

Dunno about elsewhere, but May 1 is celebrated as Labour Day in India.
In the US it is Loyalty day. Seriously (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loyalty_Day)! :D

On the first of May....
Each and every finn must be really, REALLY drunk in the name of tradition.
Lets show those swedes/russians/space hamsters that we are the most alcoholized people in the world!

...all of us real Americans must unite and show the Mexicans and such that we can do better without them. Everyone must pitch in and pick fruit and mow lawns together. We must show that we will not be shut down because they came here illegally and won't learn our language.

I wonder if all the landscapers will walk off the job on Monday...there might actually be a quiet day for once...maybe there are benefits.

Anyway, to the real honest immigrants and hard-working Hispanics that actually learn English and assimilated, stay on the job and show that you won't associtate with criminals who want to bring about self-segregation.

To the protesters and boycotters: I thought ethnic ties are broken when you step into America.Yeah; whatever. I'll be taking a flight home on monday, so count me out.

Stuff that, in Australia you get a public holiday!

Pbht, I'm with these people! We need a day off!

I can't be bothered with things like work and school when it's my birthday >O! Everything stop, it's Alice's birthday! STOP! She needs to get really drunk and call up her ex-boyfriend and tell him what a bitch his new girlfriend is and because she can't laugh at fart jokes she sucks!!!

I'm going to hide the Handy. I think it'll be safer that way.

First, these demonstrations are idiotic. Though hardly all of them do this, there is a large fraction of illegals that refuse to truly assimilate into the culture of the United States and act as if they deserve anything and everything while simultaneously not doing anything. Further, they act so proud of Mexico I wonder why they bothered leaving in the first place.

What do you mean, "not doing anything"? Many of the "illegal" immigrants work the hardest and dirtiest jobs for worthless wages. What do you want them to do? Accept enslavement? What they are asking for is to be treated as human beings, deserving of human rights.

There is absolutely no reason why they should be forced to assimilate into US culture if they choose not to. They will eventually - that always happens - but recent arrivals have always attempted to maintain their own culture, and there's not really anything wrong with that.

Dunno about elsewhere, but May 1 is celebrated as Labour Day in India.

Proletariat of the world, unite !!!
Oh, brother! :rolleyes:

There is absolutely no reason why they should be forced to assimilate into US culture if they choose not to. They will eventually - that always happens - but recent arrivals have always attempted to maintain their own culture, and there's not really anything wrong with that.
True. It's their children, or sometimes their grandchildren, who buy into the current America zietgiest hook, line and sinker.

I thought May Day was a spring fertility celebration, all about dancing around an enormous phallic pole with ribbons, and bashing your sticks together whilst Morris dancing?

I'm missing something, aren't I?

Oh well, our one sounds better.

I'm one of the oddest sorts in the US these days. I support completely open borders. However, I also say that any immigrant that comes to this country to live and work should do so with the idea that they will work toward citizenship. Why would you support open borders but not the elimination of the concept of citizenship?

I believe that they should not receive any public assistance or benefits until they become citizens.Most of them don't.

So, why do I take a hardline against these protests? Because those participating in these demonstrations aren't showing how much they appreciate America. Nor should they be.

They are trying to cause economic hardship Why shouldn't they?

and telling people to treat May 1st as if it's a holiday (it is in Europe for some damn reason). Because Europe is correct, in this instance.

They tell people to stay home when not at a demonstration to shoe how much power they have.
Why? That's the point of a General Strike.

We could solve the illegalness of them by deporting them home and then allowing them to return legally if they choose to assimilate and won't be a burden on the US...Or, you could solve the illegalness of them by making all immigration legal.

Further, they act so proud of Mexico I wonder why they bothered leaving in the first place.To get work with the intention of returning to Mexico at some point.

Or, you could solve the illegalness of them by making all immigration legal.

To get work with the intention of returning to Mexico at some point.
Why should we? They will have dual loyalty.

Well they dont seem to be doing that.

Well, I won't have any use for any Hispanics on May First, and most everyone else will simply ignore this "worker's holiday" as we always do. So this will hardly effect me at all besides generating some fairly annoying news.
Meh. Maybe the French will get riled up and burn stuff, that's always good for a laugh.

Why should we? They will have dual loyalty.

I don't have loyalty to the US, or to any of the artificial national constructs that dominate this world, and I was born here.

Why should we? They will have dual loyalty.

Well they dont seem to be doing that.

Don't Christians have 'dual loyalty'?

I wonder if all the landscapers will walk off the job on Monday...there might actually be a quiet day for once...maybe there are benefits.

The person I hired to do my lawn is an American citizen whose full time job is working in a school bus manufacturing plant. He also charges me $5 to $10 less than those companies whose employees don't speak English. The guy who re-did the cement in my driveway was an American who used two American helpers. The cost for doing the driveway was 1/3 less than what it cost my neighbor who used a company that hired workers who did not speak English.

Point:
1. Americans will do those jobs.
2. Using American labor will not necessarily drive up the cost of services.

The person I hired to do my lawn is an American citizen whose full time job is working in a school bus manufacturing plant. He also charges me $5 to $10 less than those companies whose employees don't speak English. The guy who re-did the cement in my driveway was an American who used two American helpers. The cost for doing the driveway was 1/3 less than what it cost my neighbor who used a company that hired workers who did not speak English.

Point:
1. Americans will do those jobs.
2. Using American labor will not necessarily drive up the cost of services.

If American citizens will do those jobs better and for less, then there would be no incentive to hire illegal aliens and break the law. Your point is counter to logic.

On may 1st, sel appa will be one day closer to maturity and an end to these kinds of posts. gracias a dios.

Point:
1. Americans will do those jobs.
2. Using American labor will not necessarily drive up the cost of services.


1. Not in reality.

2. Especially not in reality.


If americans would do these jobs, they would already be doing them.

If americans had to be induced to do these jobs by being paid more than immigrants are paid, the cost of services would go up.

Don't Christians have 'dual loyalty'?
What do you mean by that?

The person I hired to do my lawn is an American citizen whose full time job is working in a school bus manufacturing plant. He also charges me $5 to $10 less than those companies whose employees don't speak English. The guy who re-did the cement in my driveway was an American who used two American helpers. The cost for doing the driveway was 1/3 less than what it cost my neighbor who used a company that hired workers who did not speak English.

Point:
1. Americans will do those jobs.
2. Using American labor will not necessarily drive up the cost of services.
Amen

If American citizens will do those jobs better and for less, then there would be no incentive to hire illegal aliens and break the law. Your point is counter to logic.
They don't get the chance to because they aren't offered the jobs. People should be mowing their own lawns anyway. Yes, I would mow my lawn...if I liked mowed lawns...my lawn is sort of dead.

On may 1st, sel appa will be one day closer to maturity and an end to these kinds of posts. gracias a dios.
What would be the cause of that? I guess if I want to rant, I should open a blog instead...

What do you mean by that?


Your complaint was one of dual loyalties.

And yet, I live in the Bible Belt, and I can tell you for a fact, that people here (not all, but some) believe that the laws of their religion are FAR more important than the laws of their nation... and would break state or federal laws in a heartbeat, if they believed it was the more 'scriptural' thing to do.

So - since so many of those who are 'natural' US citizens have no respect for the law of the land, and consider it the LESSER of dual loyalties, I fail to see how the 'dual loyalty' argument is anything other than a desperate prevarication.

...all of us real Americans must unite and show the Mexicans and such that we can do better without them. Everyone must pitch in and pick fruit and mow lawns together. We must show that we will not be shut down because they came here illegally and won't learn our language.

I wonder if all the landscapers will walk off the job on Monday...there might actually be a quiet day for once...maybe there are benefits.

Anyway, to the real honest immigrants and hard-working Hispanics that actually learn English and assimilated, stay on the job and show that you won't associtate with criminals who want to bring about self-segregation.

To the protesters and boycotters: I thought ethnic ties are broken when you step into America.
Here, here!

And anyway, there's Americans who would mow lawns.

They ought to leave their baggage back in their barrios - it sickenes me to see "hyphenated"-Americans...:rolleyes:

Your complaint was one of dual loyalties.

And yet, I live in the Bible Belt, and I can tell you for a fact, that people here (not all, but some) believe that the laws of their religion are FAR more important than the laws of their nation... and would break state or federal laws in a heartbeat, if they believed it was the more 'scriptural' thing to do.

So - since so many of those who are 'natural' US citizens have no respect for the law of the land, and consider it the LESSER of dual loyalties, I fail to see how the 'dual loyalty' argument is anything other than a desperate prevarication.
Possibly...more likely if the displayed a Vatican flag or a cross above the American flag.

IT's interesting this whole issue might make me more proud to be an American and eliminate my disgust with the US. Now what to name my new blog...

What would be the cause of that? I guess if I want to rant, I should open a blog instead...


By one day closer to maturity I mean one day older.

They don't get the chance to because they aren't offered the jobs. People should be mowing their own lawns anyway. Yes, I would mow my lawn...if I liked mowed lawns...my lawn is sort of dead.

Ha. Right. Yes, people who own businesses and need work done are just thinking, hey, I know I could get this done for less and better without breaking the law, but I'd rather put myself and my business at risk while wasting money and getting a lesser job done. Yes, of course, that's how business works. Or maybe it's racism. The majority of businessmen would prefer to have Mexicans do these jobs. Yep. That makes sense. *nods*

Damn. I was hoping this thread was about the new Tool album. :(

On May 1st, I'll be outside my local record shop at 9am, waiting to buy it. Meh. I'm looking forward to the Mayday riots. Always good fun to see people finding an excuse to smash up major cities. Morons.

Damnit. I have to wait until the 2nd to get it. I are sad.

On 1 May its my birthday!

Why should we? They will have dual loyalty.Well, others have answered this well enough as it is, but I feel the need to point out that all wars should be fought with the goal of accomplishing something good, and not fought simply because of whichever country is fighting it.

"Hey, Sue, Dick, look at me! I can mow my lawn for one day out of three hundred and sixty five!"
"Muffy, come look! I microwaved my own soup for lunch, even though Teresa has taken the day off!"
"Why, Skip, that's remarkable! Who knew that white people were capable of openning cans and pushing buttons? I always thought our race was too genetically superior to be able to perform menial tasks!"

Possibly...more likely if the displayed a Vatican flag or a cross above the American flag.

IT's interesting this whole issue might make me more proud to be an American and eliminate my disgust with the US. Now what to name my new blog...

I'm not sure what the Vatican has to do with it... most Christians of ALL denominations consider the 'kigndom of heaven' to be their true 'home'... and this just a transition.

Indeed, to re-apply George Bush the One-th, perhaps we shouldn't class Christians as patriots, or even as citizens... since, if they are swearing their alleigance to this other 'kingdom'.... they're only really 'tourists' here.

I'm not sure what the Vatican has to do with it... most Christians of ALL denominations consider the 'kigndom of heaven' to be their true 'home'... and this just a transition.

Indeed, to re-apply George Bush the One-th, perhaps we shouldn't class Christians as patriots, or even as citizens... since, if they are swearing their alleigance to this other 'kingdom'.... they're only really 'tourists' here.
Good point. They believe they will spend ETERNITY in their "home kingdom." So really, a few decades in America is just a tiny, tiny drop in the bucket. I mean, no finite number can even be counted as 1% of infinity.

I, on the other hand, have already spent about one quarter of my total existence in this country. Even if they live to be 100 years old, they will not even be able to claim 1% of their total existence was American, while I already can claim that 25% of mine is American.

I'm not for illegal immigration, but i think most Mexicans are good, honest, hardworking people that do a lot of dirty work for us. I live in the South and if it wasnt for Mexicans id a been working my ass off in the 100 degree weather every summer in tobacco like my parents if it wasnt for them starting to come over here. now it may would have gave me more character and work ethic, but i think mine is good enough as it is. now saying that i believe we should limit the number that can come over here because America is getting too crowded, we cant just let people keep coming here, they need to get their own countries on track

"Muffy, come look! I microwaved my own soup for lunch, even though Teresa has taken the day off!"
"Why, Skip, that's remarkable! Who knew that white people were capable of openning cans and pushing buttons? I always thought our race was too genetically superior to be able to perform menial tasks!"

no we are so genetically superior, we can do anything, just look at history

I'm not for illegal immigration, but i think most Mexicans are good, honest, hardworking people that do a lot of dirty work for us. I live in the South and if it wasnt for Mexicans id a been working my ass off in the 100 degree weather every summer in tobacco like my parents if it wasnt for them starting to come over here. now it may would have gave me more character and work ethic, but i think mine is good enough as it is. now saying that i believe we should limit the number that can come over here because America is getting too crowded, we cant just let people keep coming here, they need to get their own countries on track

America is getting too crowded?

Wyoming - population 400,000...?

(Perhaps worth noting that I'm from the UK - which would just about fi into Georgia - and has a population about one-sixth of the entire US population).

America is getting too crowded?

Wyoming - population 400,000...?

(Perhaps worth noting that I'm from the UK - which would just about fi into Georgia - and has a population about one-sixth of the entire US population).

Don't listen to the twats who say America is overcrowded. It isn't in the least. My town of ~15,000 is more spread out than most cities of 30,000+ in Europe. America is very wide-open... Not just in land area, but in populated areas (save for some of the Northeast).

We're not overcrowded.

They don't get the chance to because they aren't offered the jobs. People should be mowing their own lawns anyway. Yes, I would mow my lawn...if I liked mowed lawns...my lawn is sort of dead.

Hey maybe they arent offered the job because the illegal immigrant will do a better job for less money, ever think of that?

And if a guy is rich, of course he is going to get someone else to mow his lawn.

Well, I had a productive "protest day". I called someone from the CT Department of Labor (about finding an apprenticeship for E-2 electrician), stopped off at one of the DOL offices (to pick up a list of apprenticeship sponsors),went and saw a movie that I'd already seen (Ice Age II), went to Tractor Supply to buy some 1100lb rated carabiners (or spring snaps, as the tag says), cruised through Ocean State Job Lot (bought a few things there), and went home (spending the rest of the day online). All this time, I wore my favorite shirt (the shirt says, "Never Underestimate The Power Of Stupid People In Large Groups").

:D

I would really like someone to describe to me, in literal and exact physical terms, what the "culture" of the United States is, and after that perhaps try to make an argument as to why immigrants should assimilate to it. English speaking, and flying the stars & stripes? Whatever happened to "it's a free country? If I want to speak nothing but Klingon, then that's my right: I just have to suffer from economic disadvantage. Same with Spanish.

Or maybe are some people just jealous because I spent several years diligently learning Spanish and now I have an economic advantage over you? ;)

Don't listen to the twats who say America is overcrowded. It isn't in the least. My town of ~15,000 is more spread out than most cities of 30,000+ in Europe. America is very wide-open... Not just in land area, but in populated areas (save for some of the Northeast).

We're not overcrowded.

Oh, I know.... I now live in Georgia, which is - let's face it - largely occupied by .... well, no one.

There are areas of high population density in the US, but MOST of it is fairly 'empty', really. Just looking at the Wyoming example... the entire population of Wyoming is not FAR removed from the entire population of Leicestershire, in the UK.

So - one US state, one English county... same population (same factor, at least).

"Hey, Sue, Dick, look at me! I can mow my lawn for one day out of three hundred and sixty five!"

who the hell mows their yard everyday:confused: :D

I'm not for illegal immigration,...tobacco...
Tobacco farms...those should be illegal.

We're not overcrowded.
The cities are...there's no room in NYC...even poor people who have divided their house into 30 houses say its overcrowded in the city.

Hey maybe they arent offered the job because the illegal immigrant will do a better job for less money, ever think of that?

And if a guy is rich, of course he is going to get someone else to mow his lawn.
The Mexicans usually screw things up and have no consideration for stuff your kids leave on the ground. But then, neither do garbagemen. They also cut plants wrong and don't watch fro people when they cut trees.

I would really like someone to describe to me, in literal and exact physical terms, what the "culture" of the United States is, and after that perhaps try to make an argument as to why immigrants should assimilate to it. English speaking, and flying the stars & stripes? Whatever happened to "it's a free country? If I want to speak nothing but Klingon, then that's my right: I just have to suffer from economic disadvantage. Same with Spanish.

Or maybe are some people just jealous because I spent several years diligently learning Spanish and now I have an economic advantage over you? ;)
The US is an English-speaking nation. Our culture is what it's always been: freedom. If I moved to Mexico, I would learn Spanish and not be stubborn like many spanish-speaking immigrants are. Everyone else at least tries, and usually did, learn English.

Oh, I know.... I now live in Georgia, which is - let's face it - largely occupied by .... well, no one.

There are areas of high population density in the US, but MOST of it is fairly 'empty', really. Just looking at the Wyoming example... the entire population of Wyoming is not FAR removed from the entire population of Leicestershire, in the UK.

So - one US state, one English county... same population (same factor, at least).
Empty=Good...it means the other inhabitants of this country get to live in peace without a McDonalds on their forest habitat.

Oh, I know.... I now live in Georgia, which is - let's face it - largely occupied by .... well, no one.

There are areas of high population density in the US, but MOST of it is fairly 'empty', really. Just looking at the Wyoming example... the entire population of Wyoming is not FAR removed from the entire population of Leicestershire, in the UK.

So - one US state, one English county... same population (same factor, at least).

Heck, there are neighborhoods in Tokyo with more people than Wyoming.

The Mexicans usually screw things up and have no consideration for stuff your kids leave on the ground. But then, neither do garbagemen. They also cut plants wrong and don't watch fro people when they cut trees.

Yet, all these crazy people keep hiring them. Must be because people hate money, and their kids' stuff and plants. That's it. Stupid plant-hating, kids'-stuff-not-needing, don't-care-about-money, white people breaking the law just to pay more for worse labor that is illegal. It's all their fault.

The cities are...there's no room in NYC...even poor people who have divided their house into 30 houses say its overcrowded in the city.


I think it was taken as read that, just maybe, cities would be assumed to be more densely populated...


The Mexicans usually screw things up and have no consideration for stuff your kids leave on the ground. But then, neither do garbagemen. They also cut plants wrong and don't watch fro people when they cut trees.


That isn't Mexicans, that's ANY cheap labour. Maybe you've never had a white gardener...


The US is an English-speaking nation. Our culture is what it's always been: freedom. If I moved to Mexico, I would learn Spanish and not be stubborn like many spanish-speaking immigrants are. Everyone else at least tries, and usually did, learn English.


No - the US has no official language, English or otherwise.

Personally, as a limey living in the US, the sooner y'all stop calling your language 'English', the better.


Empty=Good...it means the other inhabitants of this country get to live in peace without a McDonalds on their forest habitat.

Except of course, if you've spent much time in rural America, you know that Wal-Mart and McDonalds are everywhere.

I live in rural Northeast Georgia - I'm actually IN the 'national forest' on the map.... and yet, I have a McDonalds within 5 miles of me (and about four McDonald's within half an hour, and two 'super-Wal-Marts'.)

Heck, there are neighborhoods in Tokyo with more people than Wyoming.

Indeed. I lived in London. In 25 miles diameter, there are about 10 million people. Some people in the US have a 'rosy' view of what it means to be 'crowded'...

No - the US has no official language, English or otherwise.

Personally, as a limey living in the US, the sooner y'all stop calling your language 'English', the better.

You know what kills me? I would love to have a contest between a randomly selected second generation immigrant and a randomly selected American from rural America to see who has a better command on the English language. You would have to torture me or give me great odds to get me to bet on the American. I think it's amusing that learning to speak English is so important if you come from another country but learning to English if you're from here seems to be very low on the list of priorities. Nothing better than someone writing with both poor grammar and spelling how they wish the durn forinners would learn English.

You know what kills me? I would love to have a contest between a randomly selected second generation immigrant and a randomly selected American from rural America to see who has a better command on the Enlish language. You would have to torture me or give me great odds to get me to bet on the American. I think it's amusing that learning to speak English is so important if you come from another country but learning to English if you're from here seems to be very low on the list of priorities. Nothing better than someone writing with both poor grammar and spelling how they wish the durn forinners would learn English.

Precisely.

Not to mention the fact that, in order to get a GED over here, I basically had to UNLEARN almost all the grammar I knew...

Rather returning to an earlier topic in this thread:

Why do people criticise the French in regards to industrial relations and conditions?

Surely the problem is not that they get good conditions (or at least better) than most of the US and Britain, but that people around the world get worse. We should criticise other governments for not providing similar protections, not the French for having them. The thing that might make France uncompetative is not they have too many protections, but the rest of the world has too few.

Why do people criticise the French in regards to industrial relations and conditions?

because people can't stand to watch the poor, suffering, eternally selfless bosses being pushed around by those filthy money-grubbing workers.

no, it doesn't make sense to me either.

Why do people criticise the French in regards to industrial relations and conditions? Because the French have the audacity to value the worker over what the worker produces.