NationStates Jolt Archive

This just occurred to me. I became atheist, not because anybody convinced me, but because the more things I read/heard in favour of Christianity, the less plausible I found it.

Does anybody really get "converted" to atheism by other atheists, or do they just go through a similar process to me?

And then there's us, who've never had a religion in the first place.

And then there's us, who've never had a religion in the first place.

Yes, I wasn't trying to deny your existence, I was just making a thread about people who were religious, then ceased to be.

And then there's us, who've never had a religion in the first place.
Halleluah brother, for we are the TRUE atheists, and the rest are but born-again...:D

Atheism isn't a religion, it's the absence of a religion. YOu can't be converted to something that isn't a religion.

I'd say most who become atheist over time do so because they get disillusionned about their Church and the abuse of power that's present in most sich organized Churches. This disillusionnment towards the ecclesiastical authorities leads to doubting their faith, and ultimately rejecting that religion altogether.

Atheism comes as a consequence of the absence of a religion after rejecting their former faith.

Yes, we all (atheists) leave established religions and congregate together in a square brick building built on untaxed land to sing praises of atheism.

Well lets see about things in my house.

I come form a largely Atheist family. My Dad paid lip service to the Church of England, but thats an age thing most people did back n tha day. Mu Mum is a Hippy Atheist, and my Uncle a Pagan.

I'm a Sikh, my wife is Atheist, as are my two sons, although one of them was asking me questions of a religous nature the other day.

I guess as far as personal experiances go, you either belive in God or you are an Athiest or Agnostic.

OK, people seem to be missing the point. I thought it was obvious, but never mind. I'm not calling atheism a religion.

When I say "converted" I mean "convinced to become an atheist by someone who already is". I was wondering if this ever happened, because it's not how I became atheist.

Halleluah brother, for we are the TRUE atheists, and the rest are but born-again...:D

Funny.

YOu can't be converted to something that isn't a religion.
But I've become converted to many things, including artichokes, seafood, and brightly coloured capris...and none of these things are religions...

Atheism comes as a consequence of the absence of a religion after rejecting their former faith.
Often, there was no former faith to reject. Faith in it's entirety is rejected, and not necessarily held first.

And then there's us, who've never had a religion in the first place.

Yeah, the lucky ones.

Me, I gave up on Christianity at the age of 12, then I gave up on atheism for much the same reasons at the age of 18. Now the only time I consider religion for any reason is when someone else brings it up; it is very liberating.

Funny.
And yet your punctuation indicates that you did not actually find it so.

Cheer up, Fass. You've been very moody of late.

Halleluah brother, for we are the TRUE atheists, and the rest are but born-again...:D

Errr... isn't born again Christian? Wouldn't then atheists be dead again?

Ooooh! Cool! Zombie atheists!

Halleluah brother, for we are the TRUE atheists, and the rest are but born-again...:D


I once prayed to God to let me win a jar of sweets in a raffle, when I was five.

I didn't know any better. And even though I did win the raffle, I soon rejected the Lord.


Am I still a true athiest?

But I've become converted to many things, including artichokes, seafood, and brightly coloured capris...and none of these things are religions...
You evil woman, twisting the meaning of my words :p
(You know, reading "I've been converted to artichokes" ranks among the funniest things I've ever seen)



Often, there was no former faith to reject. Faith in it's entirety is rejected, and not necessarily held first.
I was adressing the OP's question about the formerly religious who become atheist. He had already clarified he knew(and so do I , obviously) a lot of atheists never had faith to begin with.

I was converted to atheism by Christians. :)

And yet your punctuation indicates that you did not actually find it so.

Cheer up, Fass. You've been very moody of late.

Punctuations end sentences, even fragments of such. My sentiment was sincere, but if you require a smiley, here: :D

:rolleyes:

Not another one of these...*leaves for greener and less boring pastures*

I say bullshit. Agnosticism is the absense of religion, if there really is a term for absense of religion. Atheism still requires the faith to make definitive statements on the supernatural, especially the existence of a supreme being.

Don't confuse the lack of organized thought for the lack of religious thought.

let's not get into this shit again.

Errr... isn't born again Christian? Wouldn't then atheists be dead again?

Ooooh! Cool! Zombie atheists!
Zombie atheists? You SO need to file in the rights for the future movies/videogames! :D

let's not get into this shit again.

Yes, I deleted it.

My apologies to everyone.

(Although I believe that argument is inevitable.)

I say bullshit. Agnosticism is the absense of religion, if there really is a term for absense of religion. Atheism still requires the faith to make definitive statements on the supernatural, especially the existence of a supreme being.

Don't confuse the lack of organized thought for the lack of religious thought.

I disagree. Partly because I'm not convinced a single belief counts as a religion, but also because I don't think that having no faith means that you're not allowed to take any sides. Lack of God is simply the side I consider most likely. Of course, if someone actually took the time to explictly define the nature of "God" it would be possible to use logical deduction to see if it's actually plausible based on the premises, but most religious people only describe God in very vague terms.

A majority of atheists are too smug about it to influence anybody -- the rest are too polite and tactful to try to influence anybody.

Most atheists are atheists because they just don't see it very likely that there's any supernatural beings.

Atheism isn't a religion, it's the absence of a religion. YOu can't be converted to something that isn't a religion.

I'd say most who become atheist over time do so because they get disillusionned about their Church and the abuse of power that's present in most sich organized Churches. This disillusionnment towards the ecclesiastical authorities leads to doubting their faith, and ultimately rejecting that religion altogether.

Atheism comes as a consequence of the absence of a religion after rejecting their former faith.

Believing that there's nothing divine in the universe is every bit a leap of faith as believing in something divine.

Atheism really isn't the best ideaology for 'followers'. You get them, (y'know the 12 year old kid who claims to be atheist because 'there's no proof'), but they tend not to hang around for too long, discarding it for buddhism, or satanism, or to something which offers inviduality, an appearance of philosophical sophistication, and a sense of belonging (The latter of which is the main lacking feature of Atheism, and consequently the main contributor to the driving away of the said group).

A majority of atheists are too smug about it to influence anybody -- the rest are too polite and tactful to try to influence anybody.

Most atheists are atheists because they just don't see it very likely that there's any supernatural beings.


If there was anyone who qualified as being 'smug' I'd like to suggest it is those who believe the Son of God is a personal friend of theirs.

To actually answer the OP: I wasn't convinced by anyone. My whole family was religious, I was sent to private Catholic school for 10 years, and, as my mind developed (as all children's minds do), I just realized that Jesus was the EXACT same thing as Santa Claus one day. That gave me this warm fuzzy feeling, like I was now one of the people who ate the red pill, and woke up from the illusion.

Of course, the "guilt" which had been lazer encoded onto my DNA by years of church brainwashing didn't allow me to make a clean break. A drifted through deism for a while before I could break completely free. Nowadays, however, I am drifting past the atheist line into antitheism.

Yes, I deleted it.

My apologies to everyone.

(Although I believe that argument is inevitable.)

heh and just to retread on it an Agnostic belives that there may be a higher power but is unsure, and Atheist is sure that there is no higher power.

And then there's us, who've never had a religion in the first place.

Same here, I was raised secular and had the chance to critically examine quite a few religions before deciding...while they may have been cool mythology wise, that none of them made sence. So, here I am.

This just occurred to me. I became atheist, not because anybody convinced me, but because the more things I read/heard in favour of Christianity, the less plausible I found it.

Does anybody really get "converted" to atheism by other atheists, or do they just go through a similar process to me?
Pal you don't have to have a religion, to believe in God. Atheism is a belief that there is no God. I'm telling you a lot of Christian stuff is hokey, but that doesn't mean there is no God.

I was converted (for lack of a better word) by the religious threads on NS. I wanted to debate a pro-religious stance, and so examined my faith for the convincing arguments I assumed must be there. I found none.

Pal you don't have to have a religion, to believe in God. Atheism is a belief that there is no God. I'm telling you a lot of Christian stuff is hokey, but that doesn't mean there is no God.
So say us all.

Believing that there's nothing divine in the universe is every bit a leap of faith as believing in something divine.

Nope. Doesn't take any faith at all. And no leaping. Just as not playing jump rope and not committing suicide by bridge require no leaping.

I don't believe in a lot of things. Flying monkies, men from Mars, green cheese on the moon. These do not take any faith not to believe in, so why should not believing in god take faith?

This just occurred to me. I became atheist, not because anybody convinced me, but because the more things I read/heard in favour of Christianity, the less plausible I found it.

Does anybody really get "converted" to atheism by other atheists, or do they just go through a similar process to me?
Some atheists were never religious to begin with. Godbelief is not the default for humans, just as Santa belief is not the default.

For those who are taught religious beliefs and later reject them, this probably cannot be regarded as a "conversion" in most cases. Atheism is not an organized belief system, but rather is a single belief (or lack of belief, to be more precise). Disbelief in God is not a religion or philosophy, it is a single belief. Atheists may belong to radically different religions or philosophical denominations, often having completely different principles at their core.

Believing that there's nothing divine in the universe is every bit a leap of faith as believing in something divine.
Incorrect. It does not require faith to lack belief in something. I lack belief in invisible leprechauns, but this does not mean that I "have faith" in the lack of invisible leprechauns.

I think the more accurate approach is to say that people leave religion. Or, rather, adopt an Atheistic standpoint as a result of finding flaws in existing faiths rather than due to its own virtues.

Without other religions, Atheism would cease to exist; people would just stop trying to label themselves at all. It is not something which is there to be consciously supported but rather a reactionary stance to Theistic beliefs and organisations.

In that respect, since people would have no desire to continue the Atheistic identity after the removal of any alternatives, I don't think it can be fairly dubbed a conversion.

I think the more accurate approach is to say that people leave religion. Or, rather, adopt an Atheistic standpoint as a result of finding flaws in existing faiths rather than due to its own virtues.

What about the people who were never religious to begin with?


Without other religions, Atheism would cease to exist; people would just stop trying to label themselves at all.

If theism did not exist, we logically would not have or need a term for atheism. However, this does not mean that atheism itself would cease to exist.

Also, religions =/= theism. Even if religion disappeared, theism could remain, and thus so could atheism.


It is not something which is there to be consciously supported but rather a reactionary stance to Theistic beliefs and organisations.

This is simply untrue.

What about the people who were never religious to begin with?
I was dealing with the question of the OP, who was asking about the transition between religion and Atheism. But anyway, I'll let the ideas evolve a little.

If theism did not exist, we logically would not have or need a term for atheism. However, this does not mean that atheism itself would cease to exist.

Also, religions =/= theism. Even if religion disappeared, theism could remain, and thus so could atheism.
Fair point. I conceed on the non-religion issue. Atheism in the conceptual sense as a set of ideas contrary to theistic ones would remain, yes.

However, Atheism in the sense of a social or intellectual identity (the type to which the OP was referring with the whole notion of conversion) would die the second it became the norm. Atheism as a name, a label, a social convention or as an aspect of one's external identity exist primarily as a reaction to people making proclamations of faith and association; why else would they be adopted?

I am not proud that I believe that the wall in front of me exists, nor am I proud that I do not believe that fairies exist. The only reason for me ever making declarations to those effects is whenever someone else makes a similar or contrary declaration. Believing in walls does not form any part of my identity unless there is an acknowledgable debate going on about them or unless I have a sense of pride in this belief.

This is where Atheism drops out of the religion and conversion category. You are not specifically proud that you do not believe in God, save in the sense that you may be proud to not be identified with those who do or proud in the way you have reasoned and arrived at your stance. Those of a religious nature are identified by an active pride in their belief - even where similarly they may occasionally feel ashamed by their shared identity with other individuals or by their inability to articulate why their belief is so important and clear to them - that would remain even when no challenges to it were raised. Atheists do not consciously support their non-belief - it arises only as part of their identity whenever it surfaces in response to another who does give conscious support to an idea or belief.

I don't think it is possible to undergo a "conversion" to this kind of thing, as the term implies a deliberate taking on and conscious support of a new identity. Atheistic and Theistic ideas are merely things you think, and a person is being Atheist only when they wish to consider or make a certain kind of point about a spiritual (or, increasingly, political... ;_; ) matter. Religions always involve some degree of conscious identification and pride in that identity. That is the very essence of being a convert; it's not about a change in beliefs, since doing that requires no degree of ceremony or sudden leap.

So perhaps I should rephrase my earlier statement. The Atheist identity, I feel, exists solely in reaction to those other forms of identities that are based on the ideas to which it is in contrast. You do not convert to it; instead, whenever a set of Atheist ideas that you hold need to be raised, you adopt it for that short period.

Atheism is a religion just as much as Christianity. One is unable to prove that God does not exist, therefore one has faith that He does not exist. Some may argue that atheists have more faith than Christians or Muslims because they are able to have such belief in chance.

Look at the word even. It's a- (against) and -theism (the belief or support of God). So many persons say it means against religion, but that's not true. It's against belief in God. I'm anti-democracy. Does that mean I'm against government?

Nope. Doesn't take any faith at all. And no leaping. Just as not playing jump rope and not committing suicide by bridge require no leaping.

I don't believe in a lot of things. Flying monkies, men from Mars, green cheese on the moon. These do not take any faith not to believe in, so why should not believing in god take faith?
The point is the difference between not believing in God, and believing there is no God. Believing there is no God takes faith (and that's what the post you were replying to implied), but not believing in God doesn't.

And flying monkeys do exist.

And flying monkeys do exist.
Humans in planes?