NationStates Jolt Archive

Once again I see apost about Mulism taking offence over something, and then some wag posts about Christians doing the same thing.

I just don't get it?

Look I'm a religious man myself(what religion doesn't matter) and what ever anybody says about God, or my religion worries me not at all.

Religion, mans serach for God, is a purly personal thing, your realtionship with God likewise. So if I hear Gods a ****. Two things pop into my mind the first being; Is God really a ****? No of course not, so why get upset at what is basicaly a lie? The second being; okay I get it your not into God*shrug* I don't care.

For us religous folx the number one thing is getting to God, remebering God, going to heaven, or whatever the end result of your particular dogma says.

So on a pesonal level it's all about me. I don't give a monkeys really if you don't find God, I'm too caught up in my own quest. Yes that makes me selfish, but ask your selfs this each and every religious person, am I more selfish than you?

No of course not, you only belive in God because you want your soul to live on, it's all about you now isn't it. And if that is the case why take offence at what people say about God, or your religion.

Is God offended do you think by the female form? Is God offended do you think by pointing your feet at a phyiscal representation of God? Is God offended do you think of a humorous cartoon?

Or do you think that God is more offended by the amount of killing that goes on in Gods name, or by the hatred generated by those that view the same God in differant ways, or by mans attempt to put his words in Gods mouth?

Or do you think that the whole idea of a God that can be offended by Gods own creation just plain daft?

sni

Is God offended do you think by the female form? Is God offended do you think by pointing your feet at a phyiscal representation of God? Is God offended do you think of a humorous cartoon?

Or do you think that God is more offended by the amount of killing that goes on in Gods name, or by the hatred generated by those that view the same God in differant ways, or by mans attempt to put his words in Gods mouth?

Or do you think that the whole idea of a God that can be offended by Gods own creation just plain daft?

Oh, I know I'll regret this... but anyway.

All of this is based on the big ol' assumption that a)There is such a thing you call 'God'. And taking that A is true for a moment, you are still assuming that 'God' is inherently good.

Why?

Once again I see apost about Mulism taking offence over something, and then some wag posts about Christians doing the same thing.

I just don't get it?

Look I'm a religious man myself(what religion doesn't matter) and what ever anybody says about God, or my religion worries me not at all.

Religion, mans serach for God, is a purly personal thing, your realtionship with God likewise. So if I hear Gods a ****. Two things pop into my mind the first being; Is God really a ****? No of course not, so why get upset at what is basicaly a lie? The second being; okay I get it your not into God*shrug* I don't care.

For us religous folx the number one thing is getting to God, remebering God, going to heaven, or whatever the end result of your particular dogma says.

So on a pesonal level it's all about me. I don't give a monkeys really if you don't find God, I'm too caught up in my own quest. Yes that makes me selfish, but ask your selfs this each and every religious person, am I more selfish than you?

No of course not, you only belive in God because you want your soul to live on, it's all about you now isn't it. And if that is the case why take offence at what people say about God, or your religion.

Is God offended do you think by the female form? Is God offended do you think by pointing your feet at a phyiscal representation of God? Is God offended do you think of a humorous cartoon?

Or do you think that God is more offended by the amount of killing that goes on in Gods name, or by the hatred generated by those that view the same God in differant ways, or by mans attempt to put his words in Gods mouth?

Or do you think that the whole idea of a God that can be offended by Gods own creation just plain daft?

Yes. If God had hated porn, it would never have existed.

There was no stage in human history where porn failed to exist.

Yes. If God had hated porn, it would never have existed.Using that reasoning, either sin does not exist or god loves it (well, not hate it, at the very least). Or war, or plagues, or anything else anyone might consider bad for that matter.

There was no stage in human history where porn failed to exist.At least not since we were able to draw/sculpt (quite literally it's some of the oldest 'art' we've found.)

Or war, or plagues, or anything else anyone might consider bad for that matter.

Are you equating porn to war or plagues? Bah, a heretic! :rolleyes:

Would God be affected by anything anyone does at anytime? No.

Would people be affected? Yes.

Oh, I know I'll regret this... but anyway.

All of this is based on the big ol' assumption that a)There is such a thing you call 'God'. And taking that A is true for a moment, you are still assuming that 'God' is inherently good.

Why?

Hey mongooses,

Did you not read the bit where I said, 'Ohh I get it your not into God, I don't really care'

To me God is not an assumption, if you don't belive fine, I don't really care. If however your about to call me stupid or irrational for my belifes, hehe then I guess words will have to be exchanged. However since you did make the effert to reply I shall amswer your question.

In my religions dogma, God is all, so then I guess if we think on the implications of that God is really beyond good and evil, or that when man is good then God is good, and when man is bad then God is bad, or even is the whole good evil thing a construct of man, ohhh but if God is all then God is also man ohhhhh head swimmin! :cool:

Hey mongooses,

Did you not read the bit where I said, 'Ohh I get it your not into God, I don't really care'

Fine. Don't question it.


To me God is not an assumption, if you don't belive fine, I don't really care. If however your about to call me stupid or irrational for my belifes, hehe then I guess words will have to be exchanged. However since you did make the effert to reply I shall amswer your question.

In my religions dogma, God is all, so then I guess if we think on the implications of that God is really beyond good and evil, or that when man is good then God is good, and when man is bad then God is bad, or even is the whole good evil thing a construct of man, ohhh but if God is all then God is also man ohhhhh head swimmin! :cool:

If 'God' is all- then he is good and evil- not beyond it. I don't give two shits about its gender. Does it not concern you in the slightest that the thing you worship, might possibly like fuckin' with ya?

Are you equating porn to war or plagues? Bah, a heretic! :rolleyes: Only with respect to that someone might consider it bad.
It certainly doesn't affect other people as much as e.g. war does, or even smoking. But some people find its existence objectionable. (And some find the existence of such people objectionable. And thus balance is restored in the universe)

Would God be affected by anything anyone does at anytime? No.Well, he might look down in shame and shake his head at what his creation is up to.

But it's his own fault for giving us free will.

Does it not concern you in the slightest that the thing you worship, might possibly like fuckin' with ya?Like all those ancient greek gods?
Oh wait, you mean figuratively ;)

I have come to believe that those who attack religion without apparent cause, feel somehow threatened by those who are religious. It's as though the religious call into question the concepts of the universe held by the non-religious. I suspect it has to do with that small, nagging doubt in the back of most non-religious people's minds that says, "But what if they're correct?"

Just as many of the religious are so because they fear death, so are many of the non-religious anti-faith because they fear death.

Fine. Don't question it.



If 'God' is all- then he is good and evil- not beyond it. I don't give two shits about its gender. Does it not concern you in the slightest that the thing you worship, might possibly like fuckin' with ya?

Yeah so now when I said God is man, I meant as Neil Armstrong meant it, ya'know mankind.

As for God fuckin' with me that is not my belief so no I don't worry about it.

Yeah so now when I said God is man, I meant as Neil Armstrong meant it, ya'know mankind.
Fine, that's a side point of little importance at the end of the day



As for God fuckin' with me that is not my belief so no I don't worry about it.

Fair enough. You have never thought about that possibility through your life? Seems... odd really. Blissful ignorance, I think the phrase is. But, meh. Each to their own.

What's going on in this forum are you in relgious seminary's or something
get a life for fucks sake there is no god there never has been any god and there never will be any god religion's all a con to control the masses
and to give stupid sand jockeys the idea that forty virgins in heaven are wirth blowing yourself to smithereens for. :gundge:

Fine, that's a side point of little importance at the end of the day




Fair enough. You have never thought about that possibility through your life? Seems... odd really. Blissful ignorance, I think the phrase is. But, meh. Each to their own.


Ohhh Don't get me wrong of course I have thought and my faith what sort of an idiot would I be if I didn't but why would God fuck with me?

I'm guessing you don't belive in God? Then your just trying to wind me up, after all why would you sugest that a God you don't belive in would be purposely trying to fuck my life up?

Ohh heh yeah the original post!;)

get a life for fucks sakeI always find it heartwarming how people take time out of their busy, fullfilling life just to encourage others to go out and get a life as well. Just, touching.. really..

Or ironic.. Either works.

Ohhh Don't get me wrong of course I have thought and my faith what sort of an idiot would I be if I didn't but why would God fuck with me?If you were God, wouldn't you?
He must be doing something to keep himself entertained, surely. There's only so much 'reality TV' one can watch ;)

If you were God, wouldn't you?
He must be doing something to keep himself entertained, surely. There's only so much 'reality TV' one can watch ;)


Hahah yeah but that's another point about the whole offense thing. God is God not human, it is when we attribute God with human attributes that percived offense arises.

Ohhh Don't get me wrong of course I have thought and my faith what sort of an idiot would I be if I didn't but why would God fuck with me?

Why wouldn't God do it? Absolute power breeds absolute corruption. Again, you are taking it as fact that God is inherently good. I'm not.


I'm guessing you don't belive in God? Then your just trying to wind me up, after all why would you sugest that a God you don't belive in would be purposely trying to fuck my life up?

Ohh heh yeah the original post!;)

I was Catholic for twenty years. I'm not trying to wind anyone up- I am merely asking you some questions to see if you have fully questioned your faith, and what your answer was- you don't have to respond if you don't want to.

I was only asking you, have you ever considered the possibility that the God you worship is not inherently good. At best neutral, at worst an omnipotent demon.
I don't mean to offend you or cause you stress- but if this is annoying you, you're going to have a tough life ahead!

Here you are thenhttpwww.humaneventsonline.com/images/islm_sm_cartoon_7.gif

Hahah yeah but that's another point about the whole offense thing. God is God not human, it is when we attribute God with human attributes that percived offense arises.There is that of course.
But if we go by the bible, it says we are created in God's image. Since he is without physical form (afaik), that can only really mean that we are mentally alike (rather than physically). It may still be comparing a toy car to a Lamborghini, but the nagging feeling in which repects we are alike remains. From the old testament we get the image of a rather temperamentfull God (wrathfull, jealous, covering up mistakes by flooding the world, etc).

Why wouldn't God do it? Absolute power breeds absolute corruption. Again, you are taking it as fact that God is inherently good. I'm not.



I was Catholic for twenty years. I'm not trying to wind anyone up- I am merely asking you some questions to see if you have fully questioned your faith, and what your answer was- you don't have to respond if you don't want to.

I was only asking you, have you ever considered the possibility that the God you worship is not inherently good. At best neutral, at worst an omnipotent demon.
I don't mean to offend you or cause you stress- but if this is annoying you, you're going to have a tough life ahead!

Ohh I see, then forgive me for assumeing you where just another windup merchant, hahhhahh I get a lot of them.

No by all means I can talk about God all day.

So are you talking about Gnostasism then the light behind the light? To be truthful I have not discounted it.

In order to answer your question though I guess I should answer the question how many Gods are there?

Discounting the belifes of the Gnostics for a moment or two, then there is one God, God the creator of the universe. Then what are God motives for such a creation, that I cannot know at this time, perhaps never.

So what then do we know about God, or what makes me belive that God is good?

What we know can be put down to two things holy scripture(if we belive it has come from God) and personal experiance.

Well it has already been said that I do follow a religoin and that my religion has it's own dogma. So the short answer is that I belive what is written in our holy scripture about God. The lobg answer though has taken me 20 years of my life, and would proably take 20 years furthore for me to explain to you. If though you can think of any questions to shorten that time, please lete me know.

There is that of course.
But if we go by the bible, it says we are created in God's image. Since he is without physical form (afaik), that can only really mean that we are mentally alike (rather than physically). It may still be comparing a toy car to a Lamborghini, but the nagging feeling in which repects we are alike remains. From the old testament we get the image of a rather temperamentfull God (wrathfull, jealous, covering up mistakes by flooding the world, etc).

Or that part of the Bible was written by man and not God. I mean come on now does God look like a monkey? Or for that matter a single celled ameba?

Or that part of the Bible was written by man and not God. I mean come on now does God look like a monkey? Or for that matter a single celled ameba?I already excluded physical form (besides only man was created in gods image, nto the monkeys and amoebas and other life).
But the point of the bible being written by man, is a good one (although fundamentalist would say it was written with divine inspiration and thus without error). Of course if you make the writers fallible, it puts into question anything things written it it. In how far can you base your faith on something that you can't really trust. It really just leaves your own thoughts and experience, doesn't it.

Only with respect to that someone might consider it bad.
It certainly doesn't affect other people as much as e.g. war does, or even smoking. But some people find its existence objectionable. (And some find the existence of such people objectionable. And thus balance is restored in the universe)

Which is why there will still be adult film stars in Heaven. They were making porn because they were exercising their free will. Exercising their free will is God's will. Oh Jenna!

Well, he might look down in shame and shake his head at what his creation is up to.

But it's his own fault for giving us free will.

Nah, God is not anywhere near that high strung. He is playing "Civilizations - Creator Edition" right now.

"Your creations have discovered [Rational Inquiry] and [Empirical Science]. More funds to research?"

"Mmmm. If they understand that, they might find out what I'm up to... oh well, WTF."

*Clicks yes"

"Your [Philosopher] units have been upgraded to [Scientist] units."

"Sweet!"

"Your [Philosopher] units have been upgraded to [Scientist] units."I think some philosophers might take offense at calling that an upgrade ;)
Besides, you still need some philosophers; science can't tackle all the big questions, just the ones for which empery can provide evidence.

I always liked sim-earth. Once you hit the nuclear age, you'd nuke the world a few time over, and you'd get a robotic civilization, then they left the planet in mass exodus in search of new places.
I hope god doesn't have my sense of humour..

I think some philosophers might take offense at calling that an upgrade ;)
Besides, you still need some philosophers; science can't tackle all the big questions, just the ones for which empery can provide evidence.

I think that was part of the original game. Anyway philosophers today only have very limited impact on society. Scientists make a teensy tad bit more. Doctors and Engineers a weeny bit more. The World is really run by [Administrators], [Lawyers] and [Businessfolk].

I always liked sim-earth. Once you hit the nuclear age, you'd nuke the world a few time over, and you'd get a robotic civilization, then they left the planet in mass exodus in search of new places.
I hope god doesn't have my sense of humour..

You're not hoping for the emergence of AI Mech Warriors? Sorry to break it to you, but in addition to porn, God also happens to like kickass walking robots. See the Honda Asimo today?

It is inevitable.

You're not hoping for the emergence of AI Mech Warriors? Sorry to break it to you, but in addition to porn, God also happens to like kickass walking robots. See the Honda Asimo today? I was talking more about the nuking the world part..
I have no problem with AI mech warrior, and less even with cute robotic girls :p

Why do you think I started studying in the field of AI in the first place ;)

I already excluded physical form (besides only man was created in gods image, nto the monkeys and amoebas and other life).
But the point of the bible being written by man, is a good one (although fundamentalist would say it was written with divine inspiration and thus without error). Of course if you make the writers fallible, it puts into question anything things written it it. In how far can you base your faith on something that you can't really trust. It really just leaves your own thoughts and experience, doesn't it.

Hey Damor,

Naa I think you misunderstand me, mankind evolved from monkeys who in turn evolved from way back in the begining single celled organisims. I don't think whatever way you take that part of the Bible to mean, phyiscaly or mentaly it makes much differance. Which is why I say perhaps that was written by man.

I do agree though you can't base your faith on something that you don't know if you can trust or not, but then I'm not a Christain. I do think that perhaps some of the Bible is from God, but I'd be very hard pressed to say what.

I was talking more about the nuking the world part..
I have no problem with AI mech warrior, and less even with cute robotic girls :p

Why do you think I started studying in the field of AI in the first place ;)

Nukes, AI Mechs and Cute Robotic Girls are all inevitable developments. Just like 3-D Interactive VR Porn. The future is wild.

I don't think whatever way you take that part of the Bible to mean, phyiscaly or mentaly it makes much differance.If nothing else, God is an intelligent 'being', and so (if in lesser degree) are we.
I'm not sure it's such a big leap from being intelligent to be able to be bored, wanting things etc. Certainly the assumption that god created the universe in some way, says something about personality (He's the creative type :p).
If god didn't create the universe, I'm not sure how much of a place there is for him. Perhaps then he's just a powerfull alien with delusions of grandeur (guess which sci-fi show I watch).

If nothing else, God is an intelligent 'being', and so (if in lesser degree) are we.
I'm not sure it's such a big leap from being intelligent to be able to be bored, wanting things etc. Certainly the assumption that god created the universe in some way, says something about personality (He's the creative type :p).
If god didn't create the universe, I'm not sure how much of a place there is for him. Perhaps then he's just a powerfull alien with delusions of grandeur (guess which sci-fi show I watch).

He is.

I have come to believe that those who attack religion without apparent cause, feel somehow threatened by those who are religious. It's as though the religious call into question the concepts of the universe held by the non-religious. I suspect it has to do with that small, nagging doubt in the back of most non-religious people's minds that says, "But what if they're correct?"

Just as many of the religious are so because they fear death, so are many of the non-religious anti-faith because they fear death.


Anti-religious people are so because they personally perceive the damage that such ignorance does to the world; and we all have to live in that world.

A few examples; the rejection of environmental conservation, oppostion to birth control, belief in a paradise reserved for martyrs. All of these convictions impact on other peoples' lives in a negative manner.

There it is perfectly reasonable to attack both religion and religious people for promoting a world view with which we strongly disagree.

God is like Santa Claus; he only exists if enough people believe in him

I think it's funny how so many religious people are so very worried about making sure God's feelings don't get hurt.

Somehow, I just don't see the all-powerful, all-knowing ruler of the universe being worried about editorial cartoons. I don't see Her sending hurricanes to wipe out entire cities as a punishment for teen girls showing their belly buttons, or whatever "abomination" the fundies are shrieking about this week. I don't think that kind of diety would bother sending terrorists to blow up the WTC just to punish a bunch of consenting adults who happen to like gay sex.

But then, I don't think the all-powerful, all-knowing ruler of the universe would be an insecure little baby who throws a 6000-year-long tantrum over human beings liking the taste of apples.

Anti-religious people are so because they personally perceive the damage that such ignorance does to the world; and we all have to live in that world.

A few examples; the rejection of environmental conservation, oppostion to birth control, belief in a paradise reserved for martyrs. All of these convictions impact on other peoples' lives in a negative manner.

There it is perfectly reasonalbe to attack both religion and religious people for promoting a world view with which we strongly disagree.

God is like Santa Claus; he only exists if enough people believe in him

I strongly disagree with this statement. I'm a religoius person and I think all of examples above are very valid, it is people not faith that does the damage. It is a stupid man in goverment in the USA that rejects enviromental concerns, it is a stupid pope that is opposed to birth control, and stupid are any Catholics that belive him, it is stupid Muslims that belive murder is not murder if done for their faith, nor suicide is sucide if done for their faith, it is stupid mullahs that push this point of view and again only stupid muslims belive this, it is also stupid to think it reasonable to attack indiscrimanatly those of faith for what stupid people believe.

It is stupidity that causes these problems, do we then add to that by stupidly saying religion is bad lets attack it?

I think it's funny how so many religious people are so very worried about making sure God's feelings don't get hurt.

Somehow, I just don't see the all-powerful, all-knowing ruler of the universe being worried about editorial cartoons. I don't see Her sending hurricanes to wipe out entire cities as a punishment for teen girls showing their belly buttons, or whatever "abomination" the fundies are shrieking about this week. I don't think that kind of diety would bother sending terrorists to blow up the WTC just to punish a bunch of consenting adults who happen to like gay sex.

But then, I don't think the all-powerful, all-knowing ruler of the universe would be an insecure little baby who throws a 6000-year-long tantrum over human beings liking the taste of apples.

I agree fully.

I think it's funny how so many religious people are so very worried about making sure God's feelings don't get hurt.

Somehow, I just don't see the all-powerful, all-knowing ruler of the universe being worried about editorial cartoons. I don't see Her sending hurricanes to wipe out entire cities as a punishment for teen girls showing their belly buttons, or whatever "abomination" the fundies are shrieking about this week. I don't think that kind of diety would bother sending terrorists to blow up the WTC just to punish a bunch of consenting adults who happen to like gay sex.

But then, I don't think the all-powerful, all-knowing ruler of the universe would be an insecure little baby who throws a 6000-year-long tantrum over human beings liking the taste of apples.

Actually He is still pissed off at people today. Every single cell in a human being has a self-destruct button. In fact, in order to appease God, human beings have to resort to destroying God's creations by killing each other and/or themselves.

And destroying God's creations pissed off Him even more, requiring more appeasement. It's quite simple really.

Actually He is still pissed off at people today. Every single cell in a human being has a self-destruct button.

Actually, that "self-destruct button" is the key to human life. You know what happens if a cell's "self-destruct button" gets removed? Cancer.

It's really cool, if you think about it: programmed cell death is keeping all of us alive at this very moment.


In fact, in order to appease God, human beings have to resort to destroying God's creations by killing each other and/or themselves.

And destroying God's creations pissed off Him even more, requiring more appeasement. It's quite simple really.
Makes perfect sense! :)

Actually, that "self-destruct button" is the key to human life. You know what happens if a cell's "self-destruct button" gets removed? Cancer. It's really cool, if you think about it: programmed cell death is keeping all of us alive at this very moment.

Yes I know, I was just keeping in line with my quasi-religious ramblings in this thread. I can't argue in concert with you all the time lest people think that we're married or something.

I strongly disagree with this statement. I'm a religoius person and I think all of examples above are very valid, it is people not faith that does the damage. It is a stupid man in goverment in the USA that rejects enviromental concerns, it is a stupid pope that is opposed to birth control, and stupid are any Catholics that belive him, it is stupid Muslims that belive murder is not murder if done for their faith, nor suicide is sucide if done for their faith, it is stupid mullahs that push this point of view and again only stupid muslims belive this, it is also stupid to think it reasonable to attack indiscrimanatly those of faith for what stupid people believe.

It is stupidity that causes these problems, do we then add to that by stupidly saying religion is bad lets attack it?


Religion is the justification for the stupidity, therefore it can legitimately be attacked by those who wish to do so.

Religion is the justification for the stupidity, therefore it can legitimately be attacked by those who wish to do so.


Okay sooooo by that logic we can then attack anybody who supports a differant footie team than us, or people from another country, or ohhh I know those that like pasta instead of mashed potato, the goverment, people who push me in a que, people of a differant skin colour, age, sex, sexuality, man where does it stop.

Sure religon has been used as an excuse for stupidity, shit then I see loads of it going on on the internet, many things, vaules, differances, systems of belief can be used by people to cause others grief, I mean that president monkey and his tame organ grinder took not only the USA but us in the UK to war over what? WMD? Oil? Religion? I don't even know take your pick.
Ultimatly though it is people that cause shit for other people.

Should we just then attack everybody and be done with it?

Okay sooooo by that logic we can then attack anybody who supports a differant footie team than us, or people from another country, or ohhh I know those that like pasta instead of mashed potato, the goverment, people who push me in a que, people of a differant skin colour, age, sex, sexuality, man where does it stop.

Sure religon has been used as an excuse for stupidity, shit then I see loads of it going on on the internet, many things, vaules, differances, systems of belief can be used by people to cause others grief, I mean that president monkey and his tame organ grinder took not only the USA but us in the UK to war over what? WMD? Oil? Religion? I don't even know take your pick.
Ultimatly though it is people that cause shit for other people.

Should we just then attack everybody and be done with it?

With kickass walking robots? Yeah! But seriously we should be tolerant and confine our attacks to just debates.

Unless they are chocolate-haters. They deserve a full blast of cluster missiles on my Mech Warrior.

With kickass walking robots? Yeah! But seriously we should be tolerant and confine our attacks to just debates.

Unless they are chocolate-haters. They deserve a full blast of cluster missiles on my Mech Warrior.


No sane man nor woman dislikes chocolate. Anybody that does is an alien, I say we top them before the invasion force comes:gundge:

All I can really say on the matter is that the media seems to prefer to show Muslims to be nutcases, and prefers to show Christians as OK people.

I'm entirely sure that there are many, many Muslims who aren't going to burn embassies down over what was a cartoon (as an example), and I'm quite sure that there are fundamentalist Christians who probably would burn down embassies over a cartoon, the two religions are shown in different ways.

No sane man nor woman dislikes chocolate. Anybody that does is an alien, I say we top them before the invasion force comes:gundge:

I've met two. Women.