NationStates Jolt Archive

Ok. Just bought the book, like 30 minutes ago. So far, I love it. The descriptions may be a bit vague, bit it still seems really good. So, if you have read The Years Of Rice And Salt By Kim Stanley Robinson, what do you think about it?

Ok. Just bought the book, like 30 minutes ago. So far, I love it. The descriptions may be a bit vague, bit it still seems really good. So, if you have read The Years Of Rice And Salt By Kim Stanley Robinson, what do you think about it?

What's it about? Tell me so i can decide whether to download it or not

I quite enjoyed it. It gets a bit long-winded and dry in parts, but I love the way that the author introduces the same historical concepts but in a different way.

Also, the use of reincarnation to have the same 'characters' live through all of the significant time periods is great.

It's definitely an interesting look at what might have happened without 'the white man'. (Basically, all of the same things, with some variances, such as North America being colonized by China on the west, and Islamic Countries on the East.)

Ok. Just bought the book, like 30 minutes ago. So far, I love it. The descriptions may be a bit vague, bit it still seems really good. So, if you have read The Years Of Rice And Salt By Kim Stanley Robinson, what do you think about it?

I'd agree wityh Mikesburg about it's being a bit dry and long winded in places (as I tend to find all KSR's books), but overall quite good.

Liasia']What's it about? Tell me so i can decide whether to download it or not

It's an alternate history that starts off with the black death having wiped out 99% of the population Europe. It explores the ramifications this might have had on history up to the modern period, particularly the rise of Islamic, Chinese, and Indian civilizations. The story revolves a group of linked reincarnated souls who experience various major events.

Here's an online study guide: http://www.geocities.com/heiankyo794/tyoras-guide.html

It's definitely an interesting look at what might have happened without 'the white man'. (Basically, all of the same things, with some variances, such as North America being colonized by China on the west, and Islamic Countries on the East.)

hey, the haudenosaunee hold their own

hey, the haudenosaunee hold their own

Oh, absolutely! One of my favourite parts of the book actually. I just didn't want to get long-winded about it (I've already referred to this book several times in other threads on just that topic.)

hey, the haudenosaunee hold their own
Dude! Spoiler alert.

I love that book, and KSR's writing style. It is long winded, but i find it gives me a greater insight into the world he is describing. It really feels that there is a living world in the books, other than the setting being somewhere to, well, wet the book. Just to be really nerdy, I reckon the naming convention are a convenience for our sake. There is a reference to another chronicler picking the same names to tell his readers who's who.

What is it about?
is it a cooking book?

What is it about?
is it a cooking book?
:D

:D
I was serious.
is it another Leftist perversion?

I was serious.
is it another Leftist perversion?

I believe the title's supposed to represent the two major confilicting worldviews in the book, Rice for Confucianism, and Salt for Islam.

I could be talking out of my ass, though.

I believe the title's supposed to represent the two major confilicting worldviews in the book, Rice for Confucianism, and Salt for Islam.

I could be talking out of my ass, though.
That would make sense or more sense if there was a Western option like the Nacho or is the West Confused?

I am reading it right now!!! And I am loving it!

The reason why my eye fell on it is that KSR also wrote the Mars trilogy (+1), which is amazing!!!

And alternative history books kick ass!!!!:cool:

Still just a cooking book ;)

That would make sense or more sense if there was a Western option like the Nacho or is the West Confused?

The East is Red and the West is Green.....

It's a great book, but except for the Hodenosaunee it forgets the rest of American civilizations, which I'm sure would have a lot to say in world affairs had they not been wiped out.

That would make sense or more sense if there was a Western option like the Nacho or is the West Confused?

In this book, the 'west', (in the sense that we know it) ceases to exist after the bubonic plague wipes out 99% of the population. What few people live in Europre afterwards are absorbed by the Muslims. (A few people with red hair living in Ireland become an odditty).

The term 'Middle-East' is never in use, rather the 'Middle-West.' (point of view...)

The obvious exception to that, are the North American Natives, who assert their own brand of influence later on. But most of the book is about the progress of Islamic and Far Eastern societies, particularly China.

It's a great book, but except for the Hodenosaunee it forgets the rest of American civilizations, which I'm sure would have a lot to say in world affairs had they not been wiped out.

Actually, there was a whole chapter about the Aztecs in there...

In all fairness, it's not like the author goes into excruciating detail about every specific middle-eastern or far eastern civilization either.

Actually, there was a whole chapter about the Aztecs in there...
Really? Can't remember, now I'll have to read it again.

It's a great book, but except for the Hodenosaunee it forgets the rest of American civilizations, which I'm sure would have a lot to say in world affairs had they not been wiped out.

it's been a while since i read it, but wasn't there some explanation of what happened to them?

Really? Can't remember, now I'll have to read it again.

I believe that the whole section with the Chinese and 'Gold Mountain' is in reference to the Aztecs, or succesor of the Aztecs.

Actually, there was a whole chapter about the Aztecs in there...

In all fairness, it's not like the author goes into excruciating detail about every specific middle-eastern or far eastern civilization either.
Didn't the survivours all became part of the Hodenosaunee league? Or whatever the League was on Yingzhou and Inka after the Long War.

Years of Rice and Salt are one of the life stages: milk teeth, hair pinned up, marriage, children, rice and salt, widowhood.:cool:

I believe that the whole section with the Chinese and 'Gold Mountain' is in reference to the Aztecs, or succesor of the Aztecs.
They were the Incas. And wasn't Gold Mountain in the california area?

I believe that the whole section with the Chinese and 'Gold Mountain' is in reference to the Aztecs, or succesor of the Aztecs.
Oh, that one. No, it was not the Aztecs, it was the Incas. Remember how he described the mountains rising as a wall waaaaaaaaaaaay above the ocean? That's the Andes, not the Sierra Madre.

it's been a while since i read it, but wasn't there some explanation of what happened to them?
I meant if they hadn't been wiped out in the real world. In the book there's no explanation. Maybe they joined the Hodeenosaunee League, but that's never mentioned. The Aztecs were a very powerful empire, far more populous and technically advanced than the Hodeenosaunee. I think that the author simply wanted to place a democratic nation where the US should be.

Concerning the fact that the apparent main characters names will always start with B, if it is the calm, collected, and kind person, or K, if it is the evil, chaotic, and angry person, I now call them B and K. I like K better. I'm on page, like 150, right after B is told to leave Mecca unless he wants Akhbar to personally come and kill him. May I ask when K comes back to the story? Last thing that happened was he was a tiger and was killed by the villagers...

I suppose I could call them Monkey and Falcon, since those are their nafs, but I perfer to call them B and K.

Concerning the fact that the apparent main characters names will always start with B, if it is the calm, collected, and kind person, or K, if it is the evil, chaotic, and angry person, I now call them B and K. I like K better. I'm on page, like 150, right after B is told to leave Mecca unless he wants Akhbar to personally come and kill him. May I ask when K comes back to the story? Last thing that happened was he was a tiger and was killed by the villagers...
He's back. Don't worry. They just gave him some time to cool off. He's not evil, just impulsive and explosive, he/she tries to be good. They change gender a couple of times. by the way.

They were the Incas. And wasn't Gold Mountain in the california area?

Oh, that one. No, it was not the Aztecs, it was the Incas. Remember how he described the mountains rising as a wall waaaaaaaaaaaay above the ocean? That's the Andes, not the Sierra Madre.

Oh really? My bad... I had envisioned a kind of cortez stlye incident and pictured the Aztecs. As far as what happened to them in the long run, hard to say, but the author introduces maps in every chapter I believe.

Hmm... may have to read it again...

Years of Rice and Salt are one of the life stages: milk teeth, hair pinned up, marriage, children, rice and salt, widowhood.:cool:

I think they even mention that near the end of the book... silly me again.

I'd agree wityh Mikesburg about it's being a bit dry and long winded in places (as I tend to find all KSR's books), but overall quite good.

So, I guess you've read Red Mars, Green Mars, and Get It Over With Mars then? ;)

So, I guess you've read Red Mars, Green Mars, and Get It Over With Mars then? ;)

:) Yep. Well, I didn't finish the third volume - re-run of the first two.

:) Yep. Well, I didn't finish the third volume - re-run of the first two.

Actually, there is a fourth volume as well: "The Martians", which fills in the details between the storylines of the first 3 books... Now that does get a bit tedious, after a while...

The black death killed people all over Eurasia. People talk about Europe losing a quater of its population but other places got diseased too. But for story telling purposes a super black death is okay I suppose. People in the Americas still wouldn't have resistance to Eurasian diseases and would suffer from Chinese contact as they did after European contact. But if colonization was slower, perhaps the Americans could develop more resistance.

I book was alright but i was though that that the people of the Steppes would be more likely to take over Europe then the Muslims if rest of the european population had died out it would of been more fun to read though

:) Yep. Well, I didn't finish the third volume - re-run of the first two.

Same here. Got the idea where it was going... (Blue?)

The black death killed people all over Eurasia. People talk about Europe losing a quater of its population but other places got diseased too. But for story telling purposes a super black death is okay I suppose. People in the Americas still wouldn't have resistance to Eurasian diseases and would suffer from Chinese contact as they did after European contact. But if colonization was slower, perhaps the Americans could develop more resistance.

Don't feel that this isn't addressed. That's all I'll say.

Got to like, page 200 last night. So... K is an admiral now and B is once again a village girl? Does KSR have a thing for village girls?

Got to like, page 200 last night. So... K is an admiral now and B is once again a village girl? Does KSR have a thing for village girls?
Gotta have village people. :)

I don't know why but I personally enjoy it everytime they're in the Bardo just to see what K will do. He yelled at the gods after the time they were both village girls and got sent back as an animal. Silly K... And the first reincarnation described in the book he was scared as hell and ran into another souls cave and fought within the body for like, what? Two months? And K was still pretty skeptical about the whole "Getting to Buddha" thing after the "Muslims colonizing France" life. B reached a whole new level of awareness during that life too. Pretty cool. But that life lasted pretty long. I mean, I'm expecting K to get killed before he's 20 most of the time.

He's back. Don't worry. They just gave him some time to cool off. He's not evil, just impulsive and explosive, he/she tries to be good. They change gender a couple of times. by the way.
Well, his life as Kyu pretty much conviced me he was an evil bastard. I mean, he burned down a resturant, burned down the imperial palace, got thousands of innocent people killed, etc. etc. That seems pretty evil. In the second life he wasn't so much "evil", as he was seeking justice for B. In the tiger life he also was seeking justice, and in the fourth life he was insane again. Ruling with an iron fist. And iron female fist, that is. Even if they didn't keep the first letter of the name, I could probably tell who is who. K tends to observe EVERYTHING and absorb it like a sponge does with water, to paraphrase B him/herself, and he does tend to be impulsive. B tends to be calm, concentrated. Holy shit. I think I just realized a twist. B is one of those helper people that have achieved ascension but go back to the human world to help other souls on their way, right? RIGHT?!?!

Well, his life as Kyu pretty much conviced me he was an evil bastard. I mean, he burned down a resturant, burned down the imperial palace, got thousands of innocent people killed, etc. etc. That seems pretty evil. In the second life he wasn't so much "evil", as he was seeking justice for B. In the tiger life he also was seeking justice, and in the fourth life he was insane again. Ruling with an iron fist. And iron female fist, that is. Even if they didn't keep the first letter of the name, I could probably tell who is who. K tends to observe EVERYTHING and absorb it like a sponge does with water, to paraphrase B him/herself, and he does tend to be impulsive. B tends to be calm, concentrated. Holy shit. I think I just realized a twist. B is one of those helper people that have achieved ascension but go back to the human world to help other souls on their way, right? RIGHT?!?!
I thought K was a good guy as the queen? Was campaigning for all womens equality in Islam and stuff.

Hehe, you'll have to wait and see about B.

I thought K was a good guy as the queen? Was campaigning for all womens equality in Islam and stuff.

Hehe, you'll have to wait and see about B.
Yeah, but he kind of enforced his womens rights crap with an Iron Fist, since he was the Sultana. I'm just using He for both of them, since they were both he's in the first place. Do you agree with me that the person who's name always starts with an I, (In the islam-france thing, Ibn Ezra) tends to be annoying as hell? The S person always tends to be an asshole. The Z person tends to be someone whom without the story would not be able to go along, but rarely shows up. The D person... Still not sure about that one.

Yeah, but he kind of enforced his womens rights crap with an Iron Fist, since he was the Sultana. I'm just using He for both of them, since they were both he's in the first place. Do you agree with me that the person who's name always starts with an I, (In the islam-france thing, Ibn Ezra) tends to be annoying as hell? The S person always tends to be an asshole. The Z person tends to be someone whom without the story would not be able to go along, but rarely shows up. The D person... Still not sure about that one.
Nah, that whole section in Nsara is about a Muslim Queen trying to rule with the consent of the people. I kinda like I, he comes into his own later on - that section is heavy going. S is an asshole, yeah. D, I don't remember meeting, and Z I can only remember Zeng He. It's been a while since I read it.

Nah, that whole section in Nsara is about a Muslim Queen trying to rule with the consent of the people. I kinda like I, he comes into his own later on - that section is heavy going. S is an asshole, yeah. D, I don't remember meeting, and Z I can only remember Zheng He. It's been a while since I read it.
Z turned out to be K's mom in the village girl expidetion. Z then turned out to be a fruit grower in the reinhabited Iberian penisula. Apparently there is a D, because when K saw the spirit group, he mentioned a Dem.

But I do think B was little overbearing as a muslim preacher in the Islam-France thing.

B tends to be calm, concentrated. Holy shit. I think I just realized a twist. B is one of those helper people that have achieved ascension but go back to the human world to help other souls on their way, right? RIGHT?!?!
No, not really. I think it's clearer a bit later. He loves inconditionally, unquestioningly, and that's a problem too, because he doesn't delve into the whys and hows. If you notice, this entire posse that reincarnates together (it's like three or four main characters, plus one or two more that appear here and there) are complementary.

No, not really. I think it's clearer a bit later. He loves inconditionally, unquestioningly, and that's a problem too, because he doesn't delve into the whys and hows. If you notice, this entire posse that reincarnates together (it's like three or four main characters, plus one or two more that appear here and there) are complementary.
Yeah. Its B, K, I and S. I think. B = Bold first life. K = Kyu first life. I = I-li first life. S = Shen first life. I think Zheng He is part of the group, and there might be another one, don't no. Does anyone in the party ever fall into a love relationship with one of the others? (Note: I am now on The Alchemist. I am at the part where the Khan comes to see the air vortex.)

I am reading it now. It's good, but I hate that the author thinks we're too stupid to read on to the next chapter without being told to do so.

I am reading it now. It's good, but I hate that the author thinks we're too stupid to read on to the next chapter without being told to do so.
Don't worry, he stops that at the end of the first book.

EDIT: And by that, I mean the end of the Awake To Emptiness part.

Revived for ACTUAL discussion purposes, not just for fun. I am currently starting the Widow Kang part. I'm glad to see in this alternate history that the Native American cultures is preserved. And I'm glad to see the jati is finally following K in his endevour to bring down the house on the Bardo gods. But the Alchemist one sucked with the way they died. Just sitting there, dieing of a plague. Absolutely sucks. And I've resolved about I. I is more of a philsopher, scholar, or something like that in his lives. He only seemed annoying in the Islam-France one because he was constantly marveling at the masonry of the Europeans.