NationStates Jolt Archive

I hate it when people always refer to Americans as "Asian-American" or "Arab-American" or "African-American" or "Mexican-American" or what ever.

Why the hell does your ethnic descent matter? What do we gain by making such distinctions against races? I don't care where the hell you came from, or where the hell your ancestors came from. It's where you are NOW that counts. People shouldn't be "European-American" or "Mexican-American" or etc. They should just be American. We shouldn't be "hyphenated-Americans". We should just put aside where the hell everyone came from, and just be Americans. Drawing such huge distinctions by races to the point of calling them a different nationality despite living in the same nation is excessively dangerous.

Personally about immigration, I couldn't give a care. If we kick out immigrants because we think some of them are "inproductive" or a "drain on our welfare system", than why don't we deport crack whores, hobos, lazy bums, and those who leech welfare? Tons of immigrants work hard, and they're more deserving of being Americans than many "native" Americans. Sure, nobody has a problem of sending back Drug Dealers back to wherever they come from, but how many drug dealers live in Mexico, and no ones saying that we should let crime in. We wouldn't have problems with foreign crime if we crushed Crime here in America, which people seem reluctant to do.

They're not "stealing our jerbs!". You're giving up your job by refusing to work at the same level they do. It's Capitalism. If you can't deal with immigrants, than move to somewhere Communist/Socialist that ****s immigrants like Europe. And who's fault is it that everything costs so much and that there aren't enough "jerbs."? Stop blaming everything on the immigrants and take a good hard-look at yourself. The only reason so many Mexicans work in America to send back money to their families in Mexico is because they can't get their families into America! And plus, we should hold immigrants to the same standards as Americans. We complain about Immigrants who are a drain onto the system, but we seem to ignore "native" Americans who are a drain on the system.

Why the hell does your ethnic descent matter? What do we gain by making such distinctions against races? I don't care where the hell you came from, or where the hell your ancestors came from. It's where you are NOW that counts. People shouldn't be "European-American" or "Mexican-American" or etc. They should just be American. We shouldn't be "hyphenated-Americans". We should just put aside where the hell everyone came from, and just be Americans. Drawing such huge distinctions by races to the point of calling them a different nationality despite living in the same nation is excessively dangerous.

I can agree with this though I think its fine (and important) to be proud of your heritage also why don’t you extend this to being a regular Joe human living in [insert nation here]?

Personally about immigration, I couldn't give a care. If we kick out immigrants because we think some of them are "inproductive" or a "drain on our welfare system", than why don't we deport crack whores, hobos, lazy bums, and those who leech welfare? Tons of immigrants work hard, and they're more deserving of being Americans than many "native" Americans. Sure, nobody has a problem of sending back Drug Dealers back to wherever they come from, but how many drug dealers live in Mexico, and no ones saying that we should let crime in. We wouldn't have problems with foreign crime if we crushed Crime here in America, which people seem reluctant to do.

1) I don't think its right to deport people because they need welfare ect in fact isn't it the governments responsibility to look after its citizens?

2) you can't "crush" crime you attack the source which is usually poverty

They're not "stealing our jerbs!". You're giving up your job by refusing to work at the same level they do.

the argument is its the governments responsibility to look after its citizens no matter how much they deserve it also most jobs are being lost to new technology not outsourcing and such

that ****s immigrants like Europe.

I would have you know Europe is very good to immigrants cutting down on illegal immigration and setting a minimum wage

And who's fault is it that everything costs so much and that there aren't enough "jerbs."? Stop blaming everything on the immigrants and take a good hard-look at yourself. The only reason so many Mexicans work in America to send back money to their families in Mexico is because they can't get their families into America! And plus, we should hold immigrants to the same standards as Americans. We complain about Immigrants who are a drain onto the system, but we seem to ignore "native" Americans who are a drain on the system.

people will tend to find scapegoats for there problems its important to realise though that its not unwillingness to work that destroys jobs its decreasing job sectors that really cause problems

1) I don't think its right to deport people because they need welfare ect in fact isn't it the governments responsibility to look after its citizens?

Uh...I wasn't suggesting that. I was comparing that act with the act of deporting immigrants.


I would have you know Europe is very good to immigrants cutting down on illegal immigration and setting a minimum wage

So that's why Immigrants in Europe live in slums and are harrased by racist mobs. :rolleyes:

I hate it when people always refer to Americans as "Asian-American" or "Arab-American" or "African-American" or "Mexican-American" or what ever.

Why the hell does your ethnic descent matter? What do we gain by making such distinctions against races? I don't care where the hell you came from, or where the hell your ancestors came from. It's where you are NOW that counts. People shouldn't be "European-American" or "Mexican-American" or etc. They should just be American. We shouldn't be "hyphenated-Americans". We should just put aside where the hell everyone came from, and just be Americans.

I am an English-Lemmyouian.

Foolish brainwashed Marxist, don't you know that is exactly what the ZOG wants you to think?

Actually, I agree. Racism sucks and it really just boils down to fear and outdated ideas.

You forgot to metion:

People complain about immigrants "takin' our jerbs!". Hmm... What jobs? You mean picking tomatoes under the sun for 12 hours at $5/hour? How about the people who mow your lawn? or the ones who paint your house? or the ones who CLEAN your house?

These are all jobs AMERICANS feel are too good for them. I would love to see what would happen to America if all thse immigrants just vanished... Or maybe you could?

http://www.adaywithoutamexican.com/dos.html :sniper:

I hate it when people always refer to Americans as "Asian-American" or "Arab-American" or "African-American" or "Mexican-American" or what ever.

Why the hell does your ethnic descent matter? What do we gain by making such distinctions against races? I don't care where the hell you came from, or where the hell your ancestors came from. It's where you are NOW that counts. People shouldn't be "European-American" or "Mexican-American" or etc. They should just be American. We shouldn't be "hyphenated-Americans". We should just put aside where the hell everyone came from, and just be Americans. Drawing such huge distinctions by races to the point of calling them a different nationality despite living in the same nation is excessively dangerous.
youre right. someone else's ethnicity or race shouldnt be important to you. you wouldnt pick your friends on that basis, you wouldnt treat someone differently on that basis. it shouldnt be something you worry about.

but your OWN ethnicity is important TO YOU. thats where "irish american" comes in. an american of irish descent is proud of that heritage. its irrelevant to you, very important to him.



Personally about immigration, I couldn't give a care. If we kick out immigrants because we think some of them are "inproductive" or a "drain on our welfare system", than why don't we deport crack whores, hobos, lazy bums, and those who leech welfare? Tons of immigrants work hard, and they're more deserving of being Americans than many "native" Americans. Sure, nobody has a problem of sending back Drug Dealers back to wherever they come from, but how many drug dealers live in Mexico, and no ones saying that we should let crime in. We wouldn't have problems with foreign crime if we crushed Crime here in America, which people seem reluctant to do.

there is no place to deport citizens to. they are our problem. all we can do is put them in jail if they get out of hand.



They're not "stealing our jerbs!". You're giving up your job by refusing to work at the same level they do. It's Capitalism. If you can't deal with immigrants, than move to somewhere Communist/Socialist that ****s immigrants like Europe. And who's fault is it that everything costs so much and that there aren't enough "jerbs."? Stop blaming everything on the immigrants and take a good hard-look at yourself. The only reason so many Mexicans work in America to send back money to their families in Mexico is because they can't get their families into America! And plus, we should hold immigrants to the same standards as Americans. We complain about Immigrants who are a drain onto the system, but we seem to ignore "native" Americans who are a drain on the system.
no they arent stealing our jobs. they are depressing the price of labor for jobs that no one wants to do. when they work for less than minimum wage or less than the going rate, they make it harder for citizens and legal residents to get a job at a fair wage.

I am Sicilian-Puerto Rican/American and I resist your attempt to push me into one big homogenized category -- boring!

What's so threatening about knowing another American's descent? I'm not blonde and blue-eyed and my people didn't come over on the Mayflower. My great-grandparents came here, learned the language, worked their asses off, paid their taxes, and did what they had to to assure their descendents a better life.

Legally, may I add.

I really don't give a rat's ass what you think about hyphenated Americans as you call it.

I am Sicilian-Puerto Rican/American and I resist your attempt to push me into one big homogenized category -- boring!

What's so threatening about knowing another American's descent? I'm not blonde and blue-eyed and my people didn't come over on the Mayflower. My great-grandparents came here, learned the language, worked their asses off, paid their taxes, and did what they had to to assure their descendents a better life.

Legally, may I add.

I really don't give a rat's ass what you think about hyphenated Americans as you call it.

And how culturally Silician-Puerto Rican are you? Probably not much if your great-grandparents came over. It's just a term that you say so you can point out your ethnicity.

It's just a term that you say so you can point out your ethnicity.

Yes, that's it exactly. I just say it because it makes me feel special and superior.... :rolleyes:

i have to take offence at the idea that there are jobs "regular americans" arent willing to do, cause frankly thats stupid. mowing lawns, cleaning houses, watching peoples kids, doing agricultural work, etc. are all jobs that your average high school student will do if he gets the chance.

not to mention the inherent sillyness of arguments like "they do what we Americans wont", a statement that implys not equality, but that they are some kind of tolerated second class, ment to be kept low, to do the dirty work. how racist is that?

honestly the real issue here is that these folks are sending their hard earned $ to Mexico, which means that taxes arent collected on it, which results in issues with school funding, etc, etc, etc, ad nausium. and of course its always being said that 'they pay taxes on things they buy in the U.S.' sure, but, I dont get away with JUST paying sales tax. hell if we want to do that, im all for it, scrap that pesky income tax, once and for all.

now the secondary issue is the fact that these are ILLEGAL imigrants, and in a nation of immigrants the legality makes a bit of a difference. we cant say... all pack up and move into finland, and take entry level jobs, and then demand not to be deported. that would be silly! they would kick us out in under a week. i know my ancestors went through the whole ellis island rigamoro, just like everybody else, and had some name spelling changes allong the way. which leads us unto the tertiary issue...

national/ethnic pride. lets be honest, none of us wants to forget our heritage. that said, aside from october fest, and st. patricks day, i dont go out waving the flags of other soverign nations. and groups like la raza are. there would be more sympathy for the cause these folks are prtesting if they were waving American flags, and not Mexican ones. as it is it just looks alot like militant nationalism. some of us have bad family historys with folks who shouted, fists waving in the air, while their banners were waved to fervent demands from the podium. and that hurts their cause.

i dunno, just my 2 cents...

i have to take offence at the idea that there are jobs "regular americans" arent willing to do, cause frankly thats stupid. mowing lawns, cleaning houses, watching peoples kids, doing agricultural work, etc. are all jobs that your average high school student will do if he gets the chance.
For the hours that they work, the reliability, and at the pay? I think not.

honestly the real issue here is that these folks are sending their hard earned $ to Mexico, which means that taxes arent collected on it, which results in issues with school funding, etc, etc, etc, ad nausium. and of course its always being said that 'they pay taxes on things they buy in the U.S.' sure, but, I dont get away with JUST paying sales tax. hell if we want to do that, im all for it, scrap that pesky income tax, once and for all.
As opposed to corperate tax shelters and international bank accounts of course...

now the secondary issue is the fact that these are ILLEGAL imigrants, and in a nation of immigrants the legality makes a bit of a difference. we cant say... all pack up and move into finland, and take entry level jobs, and then demand not to be deported. that would be silly! they would kick us out in under a week. i know my ancestors went through the whole ellis island rigamoro, just like everybody else, and had some name spelling changes allong the way. which leads us unto the tertiary issue...
Have you LOOKED at what it takes to get into the US as of late? Ellis Island was cake walk in comparison. Does this excuse breaking laws? No, no it doesn't. But those who suggest, "Oh, you should JUST wait your turn like everyone else," really do not seem to know what they are talking about when it comes to actually immigrating to the US, and how hard that is.

national/ethnic pride. lets be honest, none of us wants to forget our heritage. that said, aside from october fest, and st. patricks day, i dont go out waving the flags of other soverign nations.
Oh, except for those days, huh? Why is it ok to wave those flags during those days and not the Mexican flag at a protest? Why is it ok to display and wave the flag of a seperatist and defeated enemy all the time, but not the Mexican flag? Hell, I could make a point that California and Texas are displaying former soverign flags all the time, but I don't see anyone yelling about that.

Though that would be very, very funny.

and groups like la raza are. there would be more sympathy for the cause these folks are prtesting if they were waving American flags, and not Mexican ones.
News pics I have seen over here in Japan show about 50/50, maybe slightly more Stars and Stripes over Eagle and snake.

Of course if you REALLY want an over the top display, look at Americans when we go abroad. Every time I run into a pack of American tourists in Japan, it's amazing how many of them have the flag SOMEWHERE on them, usualy as a t-shirt (Confuses the Japanese, but they have issues about their own flag).

And how culturally Silician-Puerto Rican are you? Probably not much if your great-grandparents came over. It's just a term that you say so you can point out your ethnicity.

I'm curious. What's wrong with telling people about one's ethnicity?

It's just like any other important fact about their identity that they care to share. Name, occupation, age, relationship status, political affiliation, etc. I don't see what the big deal is. I don't hyphenate my own national origin, but I could care less if others choose to do so.

Could we not have one thread concerning this insular subject? The rest of the world really couldn't give two shits.

Could we not have one thread concerning this insular subject? The rest of the world really couldn't give two shits.

1) We don't have one thread. We have dozens.
2) Apparently you didn't read even the first post.
3) Why bother with such an INSIGHTFUL addition to the conversation? :p

1) We don't have one thread. We have dozens.
2) Apparently you didn't read even the first post.
3) Why bother with such an INSIGHTFUL addition to the conversation? :p
1) That's (dozens - 1) too many :p
2) I did, and it was one side of the two arguments that get repeated over and over again, with a mildly different twist. Perfectly suited to a single thread.
3) Ach, shh, or something :p

For the hours that they work, the reliability, and at the pay? I think not.


i concede the wages for value argument; excepting the fact that America has always had a low income group to fill the gap, be they irish immigrants, freed slaves (which im ashamed to say actualy resulted in more than one riot among the irish in NY, as they realized they were getting set up to be undercut wage wise by this new block of inexpensive labour), and now hispanics. the feeling among those ive chatted with has been that it looks like any gap will be filled one way or another. so im not terribly worried that all will end because of a dirth of mexican labour. in all likelyhood machinery will be used for the agri jobs in years to come anyway, just like every other job. its part of life.


As opposed to corperate tax shelters and international bank accounts of course...


yeah, lets see, how many average American citizens does that apply too... to tell the truth, thats apples to oranges. to be sure the tax code needs revision, as its about 80lbs of paper and growing...


Have you LOOKED at what it takes to get into the US as of late? Ellis Island was cake walk in comparison. Does this excuse breaking laws? No, no it doesn't. But those who suggest, "Oh, you should JUST wait your turn like everyone else," really do not seem to know what they are talking about when it comes to actually immigrating to the US, and how hard that is.


right, and like the atlantic crossing was a nice vacation from that famine and religious persecution. but, seriously, they did amp up the imigration laws for a reason. and from what ive seen here in jolly ole Tejas, these folks havent as a rule come here looking to actually immigrate, but come here to earn money and send it back home (just like the Mexican President urges his people to do). then you here a bit of talk about how that hurts county economys, and suddenly bam! they want a free lunch. citizenship. all i have to say is tanstaafl, sure they work damn hard, but so do alot of people. the issue is that we seem content to just leave them in the same sittuation, in perpituity; and that isnt right, you cant have a permanent underclass in our system, everybody works their way up, it takes bloody ages (when JFK was a kid, irish werent even allowed in polite society), and its an uphill battle, but it exists, and thats what makes this nation a working propisition. theoretically any citizen willing to work hard enough can climb on up the social ladder.


Oh, except for those days, huh? Why is it ok to wave those flags during those days and not the Mexican flag at a protest? Why is it ok to display and wave the flag of a seperatist and defeated enemy all the time, but not the Mexican flag?


im mearly making the point that in America we have this peculiar habit that we dont tend to apreciate nationalist sentiments for other countrys. it started post-WWI, we started losing the Hyphens. as too "just those days", hell there holidays, id wave a mexican flag on cinco de mayo, but i havent the right. it isnt the nation of my ancestors. but what i, un-abashedly, am is an American, ive had an ancestor serve in every war this country was in from
the Mexican-American war, to Korea, (and were on both sides durring the civil war). so maybe its just my familys "bought in blood for our children" attitude talking here, but something about some of these protests has me on edge... (prolly nothing).

News pics I have seen over here in Japan show about 50/50, maybe slightly more Stars and Stripes over Eagle and snake.[/QUOTE]

most of what ive seen has been Mexican flags, of course im also seeing alot of hispanic HS students taking days off of school to parade arround with those same flags looking angry, so maybe its just my area. that said im pretty sure we didnt start seeing anyone realy flying American flags in numbers at these things until recently though. (if that impression is correct then its an adaptive stratagy, and judging from your responce its working, kind of kills some of the "us and them" imagry that they were creating initialy, which is always good for a movement to do, it upsetts folks if you act like somehow your entitled, but wont take up the responcibilities)


Of course if you REALLY want an over the top display, look at Americans when we go abroad.[/QUOTE]

yeah the British seem to respond the same way as the Japanese, kind of taken aback at our little display. i dont know, its an odd American thing i guess. id wager it dates from one war or another, 'show of solidarity, united front' and all of that. we are an odd people, us 'mericans...

1) We don't have one thread. We have dozens.
2) Apparently you didn't read even the first post.
3) Why bother with such an INSIGHTFUL addition to the conversation? :p
I think he's just annoyed that the Queen's birthday didn't get so many threads. ;)

I think he's just annoyed that the Queen's birthday didn't get so many threads. ;)


doubtless so!

"whats that silly game you play over there?"
"krickett?"
"no, constitutional monarchy." ~ Douglas Adams... :D

i concede the wages for value argument; excepting the fact that America has always had a low income group to fill the gap, be they irish immigrants, freed slaves (which im ashamed to say actualy resulted in more than one riot among the irish in NY, as they realized they were getting set up to be undercut wage wise by this new block of inexpensive labour), and now hispanics. the feeling among those ive chatted with has been that it looks like any gap will be filled one way or another. so im not terribly worried that all will end because of a dirth of mexican labour. in all likelyhood machinery will be used for the agri jobs in years to come anyway, just like every other job. its part of life.
Well, if we ever get a robot able to build a house, maybe. But right now, they ARE the ones coming in to fill those jobs and honestly, I don't see too many people rushing to grab those jobs at what's being offered. Now, as McCain painfully found out, Americans WILL do these jobs, but only for a living wage, which will drive up the cost of the product.

I'm living for the day when people bitch about Wal*Mart having to raise prices, I really am.

We like the life we have, but people don't seem to think about how the life we have is conntected to other things.

yeah, lets see, how many average American citizens does that apply too... to tell the truth, thats apples to oranges. to be sure the tax code needs revision, as its about 80lbs of paper and growing...
You stated that their sending money back hurts the tax base, I am just noting that these tax shelters takes FAR more money away than is being sent to Mexico.

And how do you feel about Cubans doing the same?

right, and like the atlantic crossing was a nice vacation from that famine and religious persecution. but, seriously, they did amp up the imigration laws for a reason.
Yes, usually xenophobic reations to whatever peril it was at the time (Irish included).

But let me put it this way, it'll cost you $20 just to call a US Embassy about immigrating. Not the paperwork, not the amount needed in the bank, but just to call. Even if you have a US Citizen to sponcer you as a close relative, you're still looking at a 5 year period during which point you can be denied and deported with NO appeal process.

I've been looking into this as of late as my fiancee is Japanese and it increasingly looks like we will live in the US. From Japan, world's second largest economy and arguably America's closest friend, and we're still facing a large up-hill struggle to get my (soon to be) wife into the country.

A poor Mexican farmer... I can't even begin to imagine that.

and from what ive seen here in jolly ole Tejas, these folks havent as a rule come here looking to actually immigrate, but come here to earn money and send it back home (just like the Mexican President urges his people to do). then you here a bit of talk about how that hurts county economys, and suddenly bam! they want a free lunch. citizenship. all i have to say is tanstaafl, sure they work damn hard, but so do alot of people. the issue is that we seem content to just leave them in the same sittuation, in perpituity; and that isnt right, you cant have a permanent underclass in our system, everybody works their way up, it takes bloody ages (when JFK was a kid, irish werent even allowed in polite society), and its an uphill battle, but it exists, and thats what makes this nation a working propisition. theoretically any citizen willing to work hard enough can climb on up the social ladder.
And what makes you think that they are not doing that climb right now? As will all immigrant groups, within three generations most Hispanic familes are no longer speaking Spanish. They are doing the exact same thing as those hardworking generations you have spoken about before. I see no difference between what they are doing and what happened in the past.

im mearly making the point that in America we have this peculiar habit that we dont tend to apreciate nationalist sentiments for other countrys. it started post-WWI, we started losing the Hyphens. as too "just those days", hell there holidays, id wave a mexican flag on cinco de mayo, but i havent the right. it isnt the nation of my ancestors. but what i, un-abashedly, am is an American, ive had an ancestor serve in every war this country was in from
the Mexican-American war, to Korea, (and were on both sides durring the civil war). so maybe its just my familys "bought in blood for our children" attitude talking here, but something about some of these protests has me on edge... (prolly nothing).
And I have family in every single war the US has fought in, including the Revolution, I'm also so mixed in blood I can only be called American. Your point?

most of what ive seen has been Mexican flags, of course im also seeing alot of hispanic HS students taking days off of school to parade arround with those same flags looking angry, so maybe its just my area. that said im pretty sure we didnt start seeing anyone realy flying American flags in numbers at these things until recently though. (if that impression is correct then its an adaptive stratagy, and judging from your responce its working, kind of kills some of the "us and them" imagry that they were creating initialy, which is always good for a movement to do, it upsetts folks if you act like somehow your entitled, but wont take up the responcibilities)
The Japan Times (my English language newspaper) showed the protests in LA, I saw more American flags than anything else. The Japanese news papers also carried the same pictures.

Hell, the Reno paper from my hometown showed high school students with both flags. I don't see where the issue is.

Any more than I see where the issue is of folks in the South having the Stars and Bars.

yeah the British seem to respond the same way as the Japanese, kind of taken aback at our little display. i dont know, its an odd American thing i guess. id wager it dates from one war or another, 'show of solidarity, united front' and all of that. we are an odd people, us 'mericans...
Probably because there's not so many nations that feel the need to wrap themselves in their flag the way we do, next to Canadians of course. Canadians ALWAYS have a maple leaf flag on them somewhere.

But that may just be protective markings so people don't confuse them with Americans. :D

I hate it when people always refer to Americans as "Asian-American" or "Arab-American" or "African-American" or "Mexican-American" or what ever.

Why the hell does your ethnic descent matter? What do we gain by making such distinctions against races? I don't care where the hell you came from, or where the hell your ancestors came from. It's where you are NOW that counts. People shouldn't be "European-American" or "Mexican-American" or etc. They should just be American. We shouldn't be "hyphenated-Americans". We should just put aside where the hell everyone came from, and just be Americans. Drawing such huge distinctions by races to the point of calling them a different nationality despite living in the same nation is excessively dangerous.

I am Greek, I am proud of it, I see nothing dangerous in me thinking of myself as Greek, and nothing you can say will change that. I'm living in America, but it's the blood of the Greek race in my veins.


i have to take offence at the idea that there are jobs "regular americans" arent willing to do, cause frankly thats stupid. mowing lawns, cleaning houses, watching peoples kids, doing agricultural work, etc. are all jobs that your average high school student will do if he gets the chance.

not to mention the inherent sillyness of arguments like "they do what we Americans wont", a statement that implys not equality, but that they are some kind of tolerated second class, ment to be kept low, to do the dirty work. how racist is that?

honestly the real issue here is that these folks are sending their hard earned $ to Mexico, which means that taxes arent collected on it, which results in issues with school funding, etc, etc, etc, ad nausium. and of course its always being said that 'they pay taxes on things they buy in the U.S.' sure, but, I dont get away with JUST paying sales tax. hell if we want to do that, im all for it, scrap that pesky income tax, once and for all.

now the secondary issue is the fact that these are ILLEGAL imigrants, and in a nation of immigrants the legality makes a bit of a difference. we cant say... all pack up and move into finland, and take entry level jobs, and then demand not to be deported. that would be silly! they would kick us out in under a week. i know my ancestors went through the whole ellis island rigamoro, just like everybody else, and had some name spelling changes allong the way. which leads us unto the tertiary issue...

national/ethnic pride. lets be honest, none of us wants to forget our heritage. that said, aside from october fest, and st. patricks day, i dont go out waving the flags of other soverign nations. and groups like la raza are. there would be more sympathy for the cause these folks are prtesting if they were waving American flags, and not Mexican ones. as it is it just looks alot like militant nationalism. some of us have bad family historys with folks who shouted, fists waving in the air, while their banners were waved to fervent demands from the podium. and that hurts their cause.

i dunno, just my 2 cents...


Acully, immigrants. even illegal ones, pay more in taxes then they get from the government, mostly because they never cash in on SS or medicare. As for sending money to Mexico, once they earn it, it's their money to do with as they please.

It boggles my mind how people blame a group for causeing unemplyment and "cheating" the country out of money, when immigrants in fact only add to those problems nominally. It's corperate America that creates 99% of the unemployment problems, and cheats the country out of billions and billions each year. But nope, blame the brownies.

But let me put it this way, it'll cost you $20 just to call a US Embassy about immigrating. Not the paperwork, not the amount needed in the bank, but just to call. Even if you have a US Citizen to sponcer you as a close relative, you're still looking at a 5 year period during which point you can be denied and deported with NO appeal process.

I've been looking into this as of late as my fiancee is Japanese and it increasingly looks like we will live in the US. From Japan, world's second largest economy and arguably America's closest friend, and we're still facing a large up-hill struggle to get my (soon to be) wife into the country.

A poor Mexican farmer... I can't even begin to imagine that.

Exactly. It's not like the old days, where if you got on the boat and got to NY you tell them you names and say you don't have polio and you're in.

I'm living for the day when people bitch about Wal*Mart having to raise prices, I really am.

oh yes, people are very ignorant as to how this concept of money works. down here you could build stuff way cheaper than say Washington (the state). were simply going to have to stop complaining about prices and pay. (actually last week heard some woman bitching in ye olde Bejing*mart about the price of something or other in the electronics dept... some days make you just want to cry, dont they? i mean damn! someone got payd next to nothing to make that! *i cant wait till the prices go up as china actualy starts becoming more afluent*)



You stated that their sending money back hurts the tax base, I am just noting that these tax shelters takes FAR more money away than is being sent to Mexico.

And how do you feel about Cubans doing the same?


ah ok, i couldnt see where you where going with that at the time, my bad. :)


i dont recall hearing on the news about Fidel requesting his people do so... but whatever the situation, the issue isnt how many tax dollars, its that alot of folks are advocating ignoring the fact that these folks dont pay taxes on the money. i heard some guy saying that he pays sales tax, so he should be a citizen. im, just taking an issue with faulty logic is all.



I've been looking into this as of late as my fiancee is Japanese and it increasingly looks like we will live in the US. From Japan, world's second largest economy and arguably America's closest friend, and we're still facing a large up-hill struggle to get my (soon to be) wife into the country.

A poor Mexican farmer... I can't even begin to imagine that.


yeah, its tough, but i know folks that have pulled it off. and they can insure that their children get in. but the real issue isnt that they are trying to imigrate, or even want to imigrate. to me its the fact that alot of folks simply want to have it both ways. (i demand citizenship, but no taxes, and im going to send all my $ away). (if they pull that off, can I renegotiate my citezenship? it sounds like a winnning deal) *mazel tov on the engagement by the way, best of luck in your Marrage!*


And what makes you think that they are not doing that climb right now? As will all immigrant groups, within three generations most Hispanic familes are no longer speaking Spanish. They are doing the exact same thing as those hardworking generations you have spoken about before. I see no difference between what they are doing and what happened in the past.


oh exactly! my issue isnt with those, see the key word is "generations", ie been living here for a bit. im taking issue at illegal imigrants, not folks born here. the law is the law, and im more than happy to welcome their children and culture, but hey, lets not ask for citizenship for the folks that snuk in, and didnt pay taxes. a migrant worker is one thing, 6 month pass. its something else to sneak in, then demand that you retroactivly be granted clemency, and citizenship. a part of me says go ahead and cataloge everyone, give them green cards, and then ask them to pay back taxes. but then it kind of begs the question o why dont we do that with folks from any other nation? (of course that same part of me wants to publicly flog white collar criminals... so id take that idea with a grain of salt, or three.)


And I have family in every single war the US has fought in, including the Revolution, I'm also so mixed in blood I can only be called American. Your point?


just giving background, i tend to find its easyer to understand someones possition when you understand their family history. im just saying alot i see gets filtered through a "we earned it so our kids can be free" attitude. (just fair warning is all, also lets you know to slap me once in a while if i go off into jingoism neverland, ;) )


...Any more than I see where the issue is of folks in the South having the Stars and Bars.


the issue is that what ive seen, on the ground, localy here in central texas, has been folks getting angry, doing alot of shouting, and waving their flags. im not saying its right or wrong. just that it makes some people less than comfortable with the idea than they might be otherwise. just making an observation, from where i am, nationaly it may be different, cant say,

(and my local hometown paper showed very angry looking HS students skipping school, and waving mexican flags. *i looked, one kid has an American flag! but the other 8 in the photo are Mexican.*




But that may just be protective markings so people don't confuse them with Americans. :D


heheheheh, i have this image in my head of a Canadian pointing at a maple leaf lapel pin shouting "wait! im a Canadian! CANADIAN! see? see??!!!" :D

Acully, immigrants. even illegal ones, pay more in taxes then they get from the government, mostly because they never cash in on SS or medicare. As for sending money to Mexico, once they earn it, it's their money to do with as they please.

It boggles my mind how people blame a group for causeing unemplyment and "cheating" the country out of money, when immigrants in fact only add to those problems nominally. It's corperate America that creates 99% of the unemployment problems, and cheats the country out of billions and billions each year. But nope, blame the brownies.

not whats being said, at least not by me. what im taking exception to is the idea of amnesty for illegal entry, and then granting citezanship. you see i have no problem whatsoever with immigrants whatever their colour, or nationality, what i have a problem with is their current arguments as i have heard them arround here (in Texas). they want preferencial treatment.

as to the corporations an tax dollas, as you said its their money to do with as they please. ergo if they can effectivly lobby the system to their advantage, then more power too em... its a slippery slope in a way.
personaly i dislike alot about the current system, but things change, be it ever so gradualy.

oh yes, people are very ignorant as to how this concept of money works. down here you could build stuff way cheaper than say Washington (the state). were simply going to have to stop complaining about prices and pay. (actually last week heard some woman bitching in ye olde Bejing*mart about the price of something or other in the electronics dept... some days make you just want to cry, dont they? i mean damn! someone got payd next to nothing to make that! *i cant wait till the prices go up as china actualy starts becoming more afluent*)
What can be said except we want to have our cake, eat it, and pay cheaply for it.

i dont recall hearing on the news about Fidel requesting his people do so... but whatever the situation, the issue isnt how many tax dollars, its that alot of folks are advocating ignoring the fact that these folks dont pay taxes on the money. i heard some guy saying that he pays sales tax, so he should be a citizen. im, just taking an issue with faulty logic is all.
As far as I am aware of, it is actually illegal in both the US and Cuba for Cubans in the US to send money to relatives in Cuba; however, a bulk of Cuba's economy IS American dollars sent back home.

While I agree that paying sales tax isn't a good reason for citizenship and sending money home is hardly an offence. If it was, I'd be in serious trouble as a tax treaty protects me (right now) from Japanese taxes and I don't make enough to go past the limit set on non-taxed income for the US. I also send over $1,000 home each month so...

Does that mean I should be shipped back to the US?

yeah, its tough, but i know folks that have pulled it off. and they can insure that their children get in. but the real issue isnt that they are trying to imigrate, or even want to imigrate. to me its the fact that alot of folks simply want to have it both ways. (i demand citizenship, but no taxes, and im going to send all my $ away). (if they pull that off, can I renegotiate my citezenship? it sounds like a winnning deal)
Are they trying to get it both ways though? If they were made citizens, well, they'd fall under the tax laws and away we go. The only reason they're not taxed right now is due to illegal status and poping up on the IRS screens is like waving a red flag in front of a bull (A very large and angry one).

If you're worried about tax monies, make them legal and start taxing them.

oh exactly! my issue isnt with those, see the key word is "generations", ie been living here for a bit. im taking issue at illegal imigrants, not folks born here. the law is the law, and im more than happy to welcome their children and culture, but hey, lets not ask for citizenship for the folks that snuk in, and didnt pay taxes. a migrant worker is one thing, 6 month pass. its something else to sneak in, then demand that you retroactivly be granted clemency, and citizenship. a part of me says go ahead and cataloge everyone, give them green cards, and then ask them to pay back taxes. but then it kind of begs the question o why dont we do that with folks from any other nation? (of course that same part of me wants to publicly flog white collar criminals... so id take that idea with a grain of salt, or three.)
Actually, there's demands for that too. The past St. Patrick's Day brought the annual request for amneisty for illegal Irish in the US. The Chinese government is currently working for illegal Chinese in the US. It's just the numbers of Hispanics that makes this a wee bit more challenging and is drawing more problems.

I'd also say race is a possible factor, but not as much as normal American kneejerk reactions to new immigrants. Heck, you want to read something interesting, look up Ben Franklin's editorials on Germans in Penn, they read like the same stuff being printed about Mexicans now, compleate with the "Make 'em speak English or send them back" mentality.

(just fair warning is all, also lets you know to slap me once in a while if i go off into jingoism neverland, ;) )
*Grins* You may want to rephrase that for NS General, there are those who will literally take you up on it.

heheheheh, i have this image in my head of a Canadian pointing at a maple leaf lapel pin shouting "wait! im a Canadian! CANADIAN! see? see??!!!" :D
Uh... actually, I HAVE seen that. Many Japanese tend to have this Non-Asian = American idea and many of my Canadian friends have had to keep explaining again and again that Canada is NOT part of the US, they are NOT American, and will NOT drink American beer for love or money. :p

*snip*
Heritage is usually one of the first questions I ask someone when I meet them. I love living in a multi-cultral society, and my interest in others' cultures never fades. That and languages. Terribly interesting. I only hope that people don't mind me quizzing them about the grammatical structure of their language, of on the varied aspects of their culture/food. Especially the food :). Mmmm. Yeah, I'm a foriegner whore.

A tip for future outbursts against the 'they take our jobs' syndrome:
Immigrants don't take jobs, they create jobs. Think of it in terms of a small town. If an influx of immigrants doubles the size of that town, then the immigrants take many of the available jobs. However, by existing in this town, they create a demand for goods and services, which will inevitably be satiated by new businesses. Now the little town is a city, and there are more jobs for everyone.

*snip*
Of course if you REALLY want an over the top display, look at Americans when we go abroad. Every time I run into a pack of American tourists in Japan, it's amazing how many of them have the flag SOMEWHERE on them, usualy as a t-shirt (Confuses the Japanese, but they have issues about their own flag).
Yeah! No offence guys, but when you take this nationalism thing on holidays with you it just screams "KNOB"

Also, considering how unpopular Americans are outside of their own country, it's a silly thing to have stapled to your collar, bag and hat.

Finally, the whole idea of going overseas is to experience and learn about other cultures right? I can't shake the feeling that the Americans feel like they are doing the people of the world a favour with their tourism. Every day at my (for some reason) American tourist prone hat shop, an American tries to pay me in US$'s! EVERY DAY! Then they get upset when I don't accept! Then they want a bloody chin strap on the fucking Akubra!!! It's an Akubra! F@#$CK@#~!!!!

...
...
(sigh)..sorry, a bit pent up on the American thing.:(

*snip*
Probably because there's not so many nations that feel the need to wrap themselves in their flag the way we do, next to Canadians of course. Canadians ALWAYS have a maple leaf flag on them somewhere.

But that may just be protective markings so people don't confuse them with Americans. :D
Again, true. But I have never been irritated by a Canadian tourist, but I do occasionally irritate them when I accidentally confuse them for Americans (the accent:rolleyes: ). Always very friendly though...
I think your right. They are like little 'don't shoot' signs.

I hate it when people always refer to Americans as "Asian-American" or "Arab-American" or "African-American" or "Mexican-American" or what ever.

Well my granddad was from Poland. So was he Polish or American?

My wife is Sicilian. Is she an American?

"KNOB"
Er... can I ask for an Aussie/American translation there?

(sigh)..sorry, a bit pent up on the American thing.:(
No offence taken. I enjoy needling my Australian neighbor about Oz, and she enjoys doing the same to me about the US.

Now trying to get the people of our town to understand the difference between Australian English and American English is a bit of a challenge though.

Er... can I ask for an Aussie/American translation there?
ou don't know 'Knob'?! I didn't even know that was an aussie one :p Knob as in 'knob-jockey' 'knob-head' 'knobbly-knob-master-of god-knobbering-knobbery-knobness'. Knob = penis, or more specifically, the knob-like head thereof.

No offence taken. I enjoy needling my Australian neighbor about Oz, and she enjoys doing the same to me about the US.
Great! 10 000 points to the NERV! Everybody takes things way too seriously for their health (and the worlds). Imagine if the Ayotallah could just go "George mate..c'mon, relax, We just want a few reactors...look, let it slide and I'll drop your from the morning prayer of hate ;)"
Now trying to get the people of our town to understand the difference between Australian English and American English is a bit of a challenge though. The difficulty quite often lies not so much in the linguistic barriers (which are there) but rather the Australian tendency to lean towards nonsensical/very dry humour, e.g. "I've lived in this house for 12 years" "And, thats just around the left leg". or "Jeez, It's windy enough to blow a Brown dog aof a chain"...

I dont recall hearing on the news about Fidel requesting his people do so... but whatever the situation, the issue isnt how many tax dollars, its that alot of folks are advocating ignoring the fact that these folks dont pay taxes on the money. i heard some guy saying that he pays sales tax, so he should be a citizen. im, just taking an issue with faulty logic is all.

Withholding is taken out of your paycheck before you ever get it. So most of them are paying taxes, then sending the remainder back to their families. Which I really don't see a problem with.

Corperate tax shelters are making it so that they pay less then the law says they should. Illegal immigrants get taxes taken out of their paychecks just like the rest of us, and most of the time don't cash in a SS or medicare, so they pay into a system they never cash in on.