NationStates Jolt Archive


Lone lawmaker blocks Flight 93 memorial

IL Ruffino
25-04-2006, 17:07
Families of passengers and crew in D.C. for showdown

By Jonathan Weisman
The Washington Post
Updated: 12:01 p.m. ET April 25, 2006


For emotional wallop, there are few rivals to the windswept, grassy field outside of Shanksville, Pa., where United Airlines Flight 93 crashed on Sept. 11, 2001.

But for three years, that field has made do with a makeshift monument while one member of Congress, Rep. Charles H. Taylor (R-N.C.), has blocked a $10 million request to buy the land for a permanent memorial to the 40 passengers and crew members who overpowered hijackers bent on crashing their jet into the Capitol or the White House.

The families of the Flight 93 passengers and crew will be in Washington tomorrow, this time intent on overpowering the chairman of the House Interior Appropriations subcommittee, who oversees funding for federal acquisition of property. With a major motion picture on the doomed flight premiering tonight, a showdown on the issue is the last clash that embattled Republicans want.

"We need to build a memorial for these people," said Rep. William Shuster (R-Pa.), whose district includes Shanksville. "These 40 people were the first counterattack of the war on terror, and they were victorious. We owe them a great debt of gratitude."

For Taylor, a large landowner in the mountains of western Carolina, the issue comes down to principle: The federal government is already the largest landowner in the country, and he believes that no additional tax dollars should go to more land buying for this or any other memorial. Beyond that, the families have committed to raising half the $60 million needed to build the memorial but so far have raised $7.5 million. Taylor is concerned that the federal government will be left holding the bag.

Neither Taylor nor his press secretary returned phone calls and e-mails yesterday. His chief of staff, Sean Dalton, would not comment.


‘Very moving’
GOP aides familiar with the issue said Taylor's resolute stance made sense shortly after passage in 2002 of an act authorizing the memorial. The original designs were expansive, the acreage perhaps excessive, and there were real questions about how many tourists would visit the remote site in Somerset County. Taylor infuriated some Flight 93 family members by suggesting a more fitting tribute would be a scholarship fund.

"We believe the land speaks to anyone who goes there and sees the site," said Patrick White, whose cousin Louis Joseph Nacke II died on Flight 93. "It is very moving."

Family members say they can show why about 1,200 acres are needed for access to the site and to show the drama of an airplane slamming into the earth at more then 500 mph. As for fundraising, Universal Pictures has promised to donate 10 percent of the gross receipts that its film, "United 93," garners this opening weekend.

House Republicans worry that Taylor is not doing himself any favors, standing against the memorial fund in the midst of a tough reelection campaign against former Washington Redskins quarterback Heath Shuler.

And the White House has joined the fray. This year, the request -- for the first $5 million installment -- came from President Bush and the National Park Service. Former White House chief of staff Andrew H. Card Jr. has leaned on Taylor, as has his successor, Joshua B. Bolten. On Thursday, Shuster wrote a "Dear Colleague" letter to House members to ratchet up the pressure, offering up a form letter addressed to Taylor.

All that pressure will come to a head early next month, when Taylor's subcommittee drafts the spending bill that will fund the Interior Department, the Environmental Protection Agency and the U.S. Forest Service for $26 billion for the fiscal year that begins in October. Republican aides are confident that a fight over 0.02 percent of that total will be resolved in favor of the memorial.

"We're going to have to prevail on our member from North Carolina to come to the right position on this," said one senior House Republican aide, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to counter a lawmaker's position. "This is not worth this fight."

"We're optimistic and hopeful this time around," White said.

Clicky (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12454358/)
Drunk commies deleted
25-04-2006, 17:09
The guy's name is Charles Taylor? I've got a solution. We ship him off to Liberia to stand trial for war crimes and in his absence we build the memorial.
Teh_pantless_hero
25-04-2006, 17:10
They deserve a small monument, that's it. They wern't heroes; this is an attempt to romanticise something and make heroes out of people that probably wern't. I smell a Pat Tillman.

Havn't they released all the records yet for the flight?
Kazus
25-04-2006, 17:33
Building a memorial: fine
Using $60 million to do so: GTFO
Zilam
25-04-2006, 17:38
Good..No need for such a thing.
Mt-Tau
25-04-2006, 17:41
10 mill is rather steep for a memorial...

However, I will salute those who tried to retake the plane. They went down fighting rather than riding into the buildings like sheeple. I had always wondered why people never tried to retake the aircraft from hijackers before this...
Radical Centrists
25-04-2006, 17:44
10 mill is rather steep for a memorial...

However, I will salute those who tried to retake the plane. They went down fighting rather than riding into the buildings like sheeple. I had always wondered why people never tried to retake the aircraft from hijackers before this...

Sheeple? As in wolves, sheep, and sheepdogs? :confused:
Mt-Tau
25-04-2006, 17:45
Sheeple? As in wolves, sheep, and sheepdogs? :confused:

Sheep people... They don't think/act so you can lead them right to the slaughterhouse.
Free Soviets
25-04-2006, 17:48
Building a memorial: fine
Using $60 million to do so: GTFO

seriously, are they intending to buy all the land beneath the entire flight path of that plane or something?
Tactical Grace
25-04-2006, 17:48
Family members say they can show why about 1,200 acres are needed for access to the site and to show the drama of an airplane slamming into the earth
They can fuck off. :mad:

I am sure the guy wouldn't object to a simple obelisk-type monument, a bit of greenery and a car park nearby. But 1200 acres??? They're smoking a harsh crop.
Free Soviets
25-04-2006, 17:50
I had always wondered why people never tried to retake the aircraft from hijackers before this...

"i have a bomb. everybody stay calm and you'll live."
UpwardThrust
25-04-2006, 17:50
They can fuck off. :mad:

I am sure the guy wouldn't object to a simple obelisk-type monument, a bit of greenery and a car park nearby. But 1200 acres??? They're smoking a harsh crop.
No kidding 1200 acresd is rediculous ... frigg thats the size of most towns around here

60 milion is NOT needed for this
Keruvalia
25-04-2006, 17:51
Fine. Block it. Romanticising and glorifying any aspect of 9/11 is completely idiotic. It's already bad enough that we're not allowed to forget. If I owned that land and the government offered me $10 mil for it, I'd say fuck off.

I'd use it to grow some wheat and corn to feed starving families. *That* is a memorial.
Radical Centrists
25-04-2006, 17:52
Sheep people... They don't think/act so you can lead them right to the slaughterhouse.

Ah yes, I get that part. I was wondering if you were referring to Lt. Col. Dave Grossman's essay, On Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs. (http://hobbes.ncsa.uiuc.edu/onsheepwolvesandsheepdogs.html)

I thought it was a bit preachy myself, but he has a point regarding most people being sheep. You reminded me of it.
Lacadaemon
25-04-2006, 17:52
seriously, are they intending to buy all the land beneath the entire flight path of that plane or something?

The thing is like bigger than the vietnam memorial or the centotaph. Link (http://www.flight93memorialproject.org/default.asp)

It's really a bit much.
Zilam
25-04-2006, 17:53
No kidding 1200 acresd is rediculous ... frigg thats the size of most towns around here

60 milion is NOT needed for this


unless the raise it through like a charity or some shit...but not through tax payer money
Radical Centrists
25-04-2006, 17:54
"i have a bomb. everybody stay calm and you'll live."

You know, when someone says that they are almost always lying. Either on the basis of them having a bomb or that you are going to live. :p
Zilam
25-04-2006, 17:55
Fine. Block it. Romanticising and glorifying any aspect of 9/11 is completely idiotic. It's already bad enough that we're not allowed to forget. If I owned that land and the government offered me $10 mil for it, I'd say fuck off.

I'd use it to grow some wheat and corn to feed starving families. *That* is a memorial.


I love it when you make great points...well thats actually all the time :fluffle:
UpwardThrust
25-04-2006, 17:56
unless the raise it through like a charity or some shit...but not through tax payer money
I would still find it rediculous but at least I think if it was private they can throw away their money however the felt like
Keruvalia
25-04-2006, 17:57
I love it when you make great points...well thats actually all the time :fluffle:

Heh, well, I've never been one to believe that a problem can be solved by throwing money at it. I'm just an aging socialist hippie farmer who finds all these statues and monuments a terrible waste of good soil.
Tactical Grace
25-04-2006, 17:57
Why not something like the Washington Monument, but shorter? That's good enough.
Zilam
25-04-2006, 18:02
Heh, well, I've never been one to believe that a problem can be solved by throwing money at it. I'm just an aging socialist hippie farmer who finds all these statues and monuments a terrible waste of good soil.


gotta love the hippies :D. I agree though. Why waste money on these stupid monuments? We could make productive goods on that land. I mean sure it is nice to have a pretty place for pictures and all..But just a waste
Free Soviets
25-04-2006, 18:04
Why not something like the Washington Monument, but shorter? That's good enough.

but 9-11 changed everything. your olde timey monuments just aren't big enough. the freedom tower is going to be the tallest building on the continent, and the entire state of pennsylvania is going to be turned into a memorial. take that terrorism!
Santa Barbara
25-04-2006, 18:06
I have a better idea for a monument: we stop using 9/11 as an excuse to invade other countries and kill tens of thousands of people and denounce people as being unpatriotic traitor terrorists whenever they don't agree with me on something. Radical huh?
Keruvalia
25-04-2006, 18:08
Radical huh?

You're a mad man! If we didn't have all encompassing, expensive wars and a rough blanket to cast upon every, how could we keep the gays from getting married?
Zilam
25-04-2006, 18:08
Why not something like the Washington Monument, but shorter? That's good enough.


we have one of those in our town for some reason...i wish i could find a pic of it..looks stupid as hell
Zilam
25-04-2006, 18:11
I have a better idea for a monument: we stop using 9/11 as an excuse to invade other countries and kill tens of thousands of people and denounce people as being unpatriotic traitor terrorists whenever they don't agree with me on something. Radical huh?

You are on my cool list with Keru ;)
Santa Barbara
25-04-2006, 18:13
You're a mad man! If we didn't have all encompassing, expensive wars and a rough blanket to cast upon every, how could we keep the gays from getting married?

I have a final solution, if you want to discuss it...
Free Soviets
25-04-2006, 18:20
You know, when someone says that they are almost always lying. Either on the basis of them having a bomb or that you are going to live. :p

actually, it is (or used to be) true quite frequently. most hijackings are of the "take me to cuba" type, rather than the "boom! haha, now we're all dead - take that america/europe/israel/vanuatu!" iirc, a significant number of the deaths in hijackings have actually been caused by the cops botching raids while the plane was on the ground.
Entropic Creation
25-04-2006, 18:25
So some people died in a plane crash. Big deal.

If you really want a memorial for something that, in the big picture, was fairly irrelevant – certainly not something on the scale of great heroism vastly dwarfing those that fought in world war 2 – then get a little 8 foot high obelisk on a half acre plot mostly funded through private donations.

This does not deserve a gigantic 1200-acre site. These people were not demi-gods. They were not even especially ‘heroic’. So a couple of people decided to fight back against guys with box-cutters. BFD. Happens everyday on the streets of any city you care to name. Claiming that every passenger onboard was a great hero who saved the nation is complete and utter bullshit. How about my getting a memorial because I gave a homeless man a dollar? I think that warrants at least a 10-acre site with a huge granite statue to celebrate what a generous humanitarian I am.

People need to get a little perspective.
UpwardThrust
25-04-2006, 18:29
So some people died in a plane crash. Big deal.

If you really want a memorial for something that, in the big picture, was fairly irrelevant – certainly not something on the scale of great heroism vastly dwarfing those that fought in world war 2 – then get a little 8 foot high obelisk on a half acre plot mostly funded through private donations.

This does not deserve a gigantic 1200-acre site. These people were not demi-gods. They were not even especially ‘heroic’. So a couple of people decided to fight back against guys with box-cutters. BFD. Happens everyday on the streets of any city you care to name. Claiming that every passenger onboard was a great hero who saved the nation is complete and utter bullshit. How about my getting a memorial because I gave a homeless man a dollar? I think that warrants at least a 10-acre site with a huge granite statue to celebrate what a generous humanitarian I am.

People need to get a little perspective.

Think of the good that could be done if this money WAS spent on a nice modern well equped homless shelter ... or maybe a few...
People without names
25-04-2006, 18:36
wtf is going on with memorials.

some things are more deserving then others, but still if people make a memorial everytime someone dies, or does something heroic, or makes a great achievement. this country would be full of memorials.
Free Soviets
25-04-2006, 18:37
wtf is going on with memorials.

some things are more deserving then others, but still if people make a memorial everytime someone dies, or does something heroic, or makes a great achievement. this country would be full of memorials.

but think of the field trip opportunities
Tactical Grace
25-04-2006, 18:52
but think of the field trip opportunities
Hehe, bet the fast food franchisees are queuing up. :rolleyes:

Freedom Park Burger King ... I can see it now...
Keruvalia
25-04-2006, 19:00
Freedom Park Burger King ... I can see it now...

Disney Presents Freedom Park, most likely.
Free Soviets
25-04-2006, 19:21
Disney Presents Freedom Park, most likely.

animatronic terrorists defeated by animatronic abe lincoln!
People without names
25-04-2006, 19:22
Disney Presents Freedom Park, most likely.

and there will be a roller coaster ride where they take a nose dive into the ground
Spurland
25-04-2006, 19:38
and there will be a roller coaster ride where they take a nose dive into the ground

Best.
Kroisistan
25-04-2006, 19:47
Way to go House Appropriations Committee.

The word 'excessive' doesn't quite seem to cover the idiocy of the proposed monument. Heck, it'll be tens if not hundreds of times bigger than the National WWII Memorial. I wish the English language had stronger words. Perhaps tripleplusunnecessary and doubleplusexcessive would do?
Forsakia
25-04-2006, 20:08
I wish the English language had stronger words. Perhaps tripleplusunnecessary and doubleplusexcessive would do?
That second word has something in it that just jumps out at you. Or perhaps it's me being exceptionally skillful at seeing the word sex everywhere;)
Dongara
25-04-2006, 23:07
Ridicolous. 60 million dollars? What are they doing? A reenactment of 9/11?

Honestly, a nice 10,000 dollar memorial is fine.

60 million is insane for a useless memorial.

These people should be remembered, but this is ridicolous. Just more fiscally irresponsible governments wasting taxpayer money. This truly shows that true Conservatism has finally died in American politics, when only one lawmaker is willing to be fiscally responsible.
Tekania
26-04-2006, 00:01
The guy's name is Charles Taylor? I've got a solution. We ship him off to Liberia to stand trial for war crimes and in his absence we build the memorial.

I agree with Taylor on this one... The federal government does not need to "aquire" anymore land. It has enough as it is.