NationStates Jolt Archive

http://news.independent.co.uk/environment/article359644.ece

Who would you side with? The ecologists and the surfers or the government and the ecologists?

The British government plans to build a 10 mile dam across the mouth of the River Severn to harness the tides that sweep up and down the esturary. The dam is estimated to produce 7% of the countries electricity. though there are strong concerns for the environment. So, which environment issue are you worried about more?

They're actually going to do it? Finally.

They're actually going to do it? Finally.
It's from the Indy, so I wouldn't bet on it.

http://news.independent.co.uk/environment/article359644.ece

Who would you side with? The ecologists and the surfers or the government and the ecologists?

The British government plans to build a 10 mile dam across the mouth of the River Severn to harness the tides that sweep up and down the esturary. The dam is estimated to produce 7% of the countries electricity. though there are strong concerns for the environment. So, which environment issue are you worried about more?
A 10 MILE DAM? Are y'all nuts or something?


Speaking as an american, dams are reallllyyy bad ideas. We learned that the hard way after a 100 year spree by the Army Corps of Engineers who helpfully destroyed much of the river systems in the united states in the name of 'progress'.

Hell yeah. We'll show the world there's nothing like good solid British engineering. :D

A 10 MILE DAM? Are y'all nuts or something?


Speaking as an american, dams are reallllyyy bad ideas. We learned that the hard way after a 100 year spree by the Army Corps of Engineers who helpfully destroyed much of the river systems in the united states in the name of 'progress'.

Speaking as an Englishman, your country's cock-ups aren't going to prevent this project.

Eh, why are dams a bad idea? Free sustainable power doesn't seem that bad to me. I could care less if we drown out a few badgers.

Hell yeah. We'll show the world there's nothing like good solid British engineering. :D
Heh, so it'll be 10 times over budget, several years late, the finished product will only do half the things that the plans called for, and then within a year it will either break or go bankrupt. :p

Speaking as an Englishman, your country's cock-ups aren't going to prevent this project.
I really do feel the need to point out the source of this article again...

It'll never happen, mark my words.

I really do feel the need to point out the source of this article again...

It'll never happen, mark my words.

Maybe not in my lifetime, or within a millenium of my lifetime. It could still happen, though.

Heh, so it'll be 10 times over budget, several years late, the finished product will only do half the things that the plans called for, and then within a year it will either break or go bankrupt. :p
Don't forget the government bail-out halfway through the project. :p

Maybe not in my lifetime, or within a millenium of my lifetime. It could still happen, though.
:p

You know, I really can believe that this Government would still be um-ing and ah-ing about a big project like this in a thousand years...

:p

You know, I really can believe that this Government would still be um-ing and ah-ing about a big project like this in a thousand years...
Though come to think of it, at least it wouldn't be as bad as Australia, where the presence of a rare moth with a lifespan of a couple of days can scrap the whole project. :rolleyes:

Government opportunism? What's that?

So let me get this straight...
Labour, realising that nuclear power isn't really that popular among the general population, decides to announce its 'green' credentials:

Peter Hain: This is one of the few renewable schemes that rivals nuclear in terms of the amount of electricity it can generate - but without the associated problems of radioactive waste and security risks

Labour are also worried about Dave (the chameleon) getting the 'green' vote, so it decides it has to do something about it, while at the same time attempting to deflect the inevitable criticism about attempting to get said 'green' vote:

Hain: This [is] not just a climate change issue. This debate is about security of supply. It's about keeping the lights on

But then it decides to adopt a project that has been mooted for years, but has never been done because it is potentially disastrous to the Severn's ecosystem. Expect Dave 'not a Tory' Cameron to come out against the proposal in the next couple of days.

:eek: Wiki says the dam would create the same about of power as 12 nuclear stations. Build it! Anything to build as few nuclear power plants as possible.

Eh, I'm against it - there are less invasive methods, and the Severn bore is a natural wonder of the world (not officially, but you know what I mean).

It's a nice way to show your green credentials, by wrecking a huge estuary.

Though come to think of it, at least it wouldn't be as bad as Australia, where the presence of a rare moth with a lifespan of a couple of days can scrap the whole project. :rolleyes:
A rare moth in the Severn Esturary would be perfect for Labour. They could 'go green' by building up this project for as long as possible, shouting "we're green, we're green!"

Then, when they get to the point where they actually have to spend money..."there is a rare species in the way of the project, so we're not doing it anymore. This, er, makes us even greener!"

It would take longer than the lifetime of a Parliament just to design the damn thing anyway. It's not as if anyone has prepared a full set of mechanical drawings and is poised to start piledriving the foundation. It would be the Conservatives who would end up examining the blueprints.

A rare moth in the Severn Esturary would be perfect for Labour. They could 'go green' by building up this project for as long as possible, shouting "we're green, we're green!"

Then, when they get to the point where they actually have to spend money..."there is a rare species in the way of the project, so we're not doing it anymore. This, er, makes us even greener!"
Alas, that's the standard of political debate at the highest levels in this country. :(

Oh, by the way, I just suddenly thought - this isn't actually a dam at all. A dam blocks up a river and collects the water in a big lake, which in this case would mean flooding most of Wales, and as there are no natural 'walls' for such a lake in this location, is technically impossible. This is talking about a barrage to harness the tidal power.

I realise that everyone else probably spotted this distinction straight away, but it suddenly came to me and puts quite a different spin on the scale and direction of any potential project.

Oh, by the way, I just suddenly thought - this isn't actually a dam at all. A dam blocks up a river and collects the water in a big lake, which in this case would mean flooding most of Wales, and as there are no natural 'walls' for such a lake in this location, is technically impossible. This is talking about a barrage to harness the tidal power.

I realise that everyone else probably spotted this distinction straight away, but it suddenly came to me and puts quite a different spin on the scale and direction of any potential project.
Or as the environmentalists call it, "one rather expensive way to fuck up the ecosystems of estuaries".

surely we would get more power if we simply burnt the government money just like what happened to my government supplied handbook about what to do in an emergency (who still has there’s?)

Or as the environmentalists call it, "one rather expensive way to fuck up the ecosystems of estuaries".

Who cares about ecosystems? We have a gas shortage!

Edit = by gas, I mean natural gas, not petroleum.

surely we would get more power if we simply burnt the government money just like what happened to my government supplied handbook about what to do in an emergency (who still has there’s?)
:D I remember that!

"In an emergency, don't panic and call 999."

Gee, thanks, I feel so much more prepared now. :rolleyes:

surely we would get more power if we simply burnt the government money just like what happened to my government supplied handbook about what to do in an emergency (who still has there’s?)
I never even got one. Though I did see that spoof website...:D

Don't worry about having lost your advice booklet! http://www.preparingforemergencies.gov.uk/index.shtm has all the relevant information.

Yeah, they redesigned the real website, so the spoof one didn't look so similar. :(

Don't worry about having lost your advice booklet! http://www.preparingforemergencies.gov.uk/index.shtm has all the relevant information.
Donnnt paaniiicc Mr Manwaring! :D

Who cares about ecosystems? We have a gas shortage!

and 7% will solve this?

I think the money would go much further if we spent it on incinerators and biomass research though the first will never get approval thank you very much ignorant protestors

I never even got one.

no fear for you can order as many booklets as you want off the website meaning you will never have to pay a heating bill again!

and 7% will solve this?

I think the money would go much further if we spent it on incinerators and biomass research though the first will never get approval thank you very much ignorant protestors

But biomass research doesn't kill wildlife, does it? Think things through. Value for money, two birds with one stone, that's what I say.

Who cares about ecosystems? We have a gas shortage!

Edit = by gas, I mean natural gas, not petroleum.
That bit of cavalier attitude is what gets us into messes like global warming.

That bit of cavalier attitude is what gets us into messes like global warming.

Yes...and how is building an emission free (apart from construction) electricity project going to cause global warming?

Yes...and how is building an emission free (apart from construction) electricity project going to cause global warming?
Oh, not global warming, but several other issues.

Damming up an estuary will most likely drive up the temperature of the water by several degrees and increase salinity by a large amount (kiss fish goodbye), besides the damage done to the recreational activities on the water. Depending on the area, movement of fish will also be stopped, adding insult to injury, and large amounts of silt will back up behind the dam, costing millions in eventual dredging/etc. Say nothing of the stability and flood control issues (New Orleans anyone?).

The point is that saying that "oh, it's just the environment" causes a lot of problems, not all of which can be forecasted.