NationStates Jolt Archive


My Tibet trip

Demented Hamsters
24-04-2006, 05:20
In case you're still interested:

Day 1: Drove to Shenzhen (border town of China/HK), and flew into Shangri La (how cool is that?) and was driven (we'd hired a driver and local Tibetan guide, called Thupten) over to a small village I can't pronounce or spell. Tried to drive over the mountain pass, got to 4000m but too much snow on the road. I felt very woozy and threw up at that level. Went back to the village (it's 'only' at 3000m) and stayed the night.

Day 2: Again attempted to drive over the pass. Got a little bit further, but still too much ice, and van almost slid off the road - back wheel only inches away from the edge, looking down over a couple thousand foot drop. Managed to push it back onto the road, but left it there and hiked 9km through knee deep snow (in parts) over the pass, getting up to 4300m (luckily had time to aclimatise a bit by now) into Deqing. Van got a tow, so was able to meet us there.
Incidently, 4300m is 550m higher than the tallest mountain in NZ (Mt Cook), almost twice as high as Australia's biggest mountain (Kosciuszko, 2200m) and only 100m less than Mt Whitney, the tallest in the lower 48 states (Alaska has a much bigger one). Scafell Pike in England is a pathetic 977m whilst Mount Elbrus is Europe's biggest, at 5633m.
Fun/near-death events hadn't ended there, though. On our way to Mingyong village (2600m), there was a landslide blocking the road (we were at 3300m at this point). We had to time our run across the 30m of landslide between the rocks falling down the mountain - some were pretty big too. The it was the turn of the van. Driver was alternating between red bull and a weird local drink that tasted like fortified sherry, we named snakebite. Very nice it was too. One local told us it had yak urine in it. Wouldn't be at all surprised, they put yak with everything here. We stopped at one pass which has 13 pagodas - one for each of the 13 sacred mountains visible from there. Well, they would be on a clear day. Each mountain is well over 6000m, and Tibetans try to make a pilgrimage at least once in their lives around each of them, which takes about a month. The road was a one-lane dirt road with a thousand+ foot drop on the side, which made for an interesting drive.
The Mekong river starts around here. So if I jumped in, I could end up in Vietnam in a few days. Tempting.

Day 3: Hiked over a mountain to YuBeng village (pop 300). Fantastic hike. Half-way up, we stopped for yak butter tea. They mix big globs of butter with tea in a churn. I had 3 cups of it during my stay - approx. 2 1/2 cups too many.
At the top (3600m) there were thousands of prayer flags hung from every tree, so it was very special walking through the snow there. Also, at that level it's hard going. I was taking maybe 20 steps up then needing a rest.
The village is fantastic. a low plateau (well, 3100m) surrounded by mountains - all of which are 6000m+.
Did some teaching that day. Kids were fantastic. Certainly makes one feel very priviliged when you see what they make do with. Almost no paper, pens, chalk. A dirty room with no heating (except for a stove outside) and a pigpen outside the window. Teacher a volunteer from Shanghai, and he'd never taught before. He was a computer programmer who decided to do something different for a year (which is a bloody cool thing to do). The kids were so happy and excited to see us, especially when we handed out some presents for them. Hopefully this will be a tick in the good column of my life, and will cancel out some of the bad things I've done.
No hot water in the village and no proper toilets. Definitely starting to miss the little luxuries in life.

Day 4: We hiked up to a sacred waterfall, at 3700m. Started off beautiful, walking through a rain forest next to a glacier fed stream. The Tibetans had built little stone pyramids all along the river bank - each one only a few inches high, but hundreds of them.
Hike got harder once it got to the snowline, especially as the snow came up to the waist at parts. Saw/heard lots of avalanches. Again was hard work the last 200m up. On the way back had our 3rd near-death xp: A bloody great avalanche took out part of the path in the forest. I watched it from a few metres away (well 40 or 50), too entranced by the awesomeness and beauty of the falling snow/ice and the sound to take photos until it had finished.
One of my most memorable events was walking along the path just after seeing the avalanche. The sun was filtering down through the trees which had pink blooms all over them, the river was flowing by, I'd escaped death by a couple of minutes and there was a gourgeous Tibetan girl walking behind me singing a beautiful song. I don't think it could have got any better.
Blisters on my feet starting to hurt - should have worn my boots in beforehand.
Some more teaching that day as well. Kids really love us!
That night the locals held a special dance for us. They all got dressed up in traditional Tibetan costumes, sang Tibetan songs and danced, which was awesome.

Day 5: We decided to hike back over the pass, as the sacred lake we wanted to hike to was impassable due to heavy snow fall. Did the teaching in the morning then went over. Certainly got my altitude fitness by now. Going to YuBeng it took 4 1/2 hours over the mountain. Heading back it took 3. I jogged most of the way down, which felt great. Stayed at MingYong again and got trashed. Bought a big bunch of fireworks from the local shop and let them off in the street at midnight. Awesome fun!

Day 6: Walked up to MingYong glacier (an easy hike - only to 3000m). It's one of the longest glaciers in the world apparently, as well as the fastest moving and closest to the equator. Again, another sacred thing for the Tibetans. The temple at the top was cool. Walked around the prayer wheel 7 times for luck (you should go either 3/5/7/9/11/13/15). Seemed to work, as I'll divulge later.
Blisters really playing up by now!
A real long drive to ShangriLa that afternoon, about 6 hours. Luckily the snow had melted over the pass, so it was easy this time. Yet another near-death along the way with a truck driving the wrong side narrowly hitting us (we ended up in the ditch).
Thought I'd lost my camera in MingYong which depressed me, especially as the day was sunny and there was great views of the 13 peaks on the drive. When we got to Lijiang found it under all the backpacks. So happy! The 7 times round seems to be working!
Great dinner in ShangriLa at a Tibetan restaurant.

Day 7: Morning we went to Songzanlin (or Gui Hua) monastery, built in 1679 on the behest of the 5th Dalai Lama and the biggest in Yunnan province. Thupten was a great guide, showing us around the place and explaining everything to us. Unfortunately no photos, as it's forbidden inside the monastery (not that it stopped some Chinese tourists). Beautiful wall paintings and amazing statues there. Got blessed by a Tibetan Monk.
Drove to Tiger-Leaping gorge and did a mini hike around there. Tiger-leaping gorge is near the start of the Yangzte river. Apparently it's a big deal, but all I saw was a big rock in the middle of the river. Think it'd have been more impressive if we'd seen it before everything else. Yet another near-death on the roads - again ended up in the ditch due to a truck not being able to remember which side to drive on.
Then onto Lijiang. It's a nice town (pop 140 000), with a cool inner area. It's real touristy with lots of shops, cafe and bars, no vehicles, all cobblestoned and built to look traditional. After a week of roughing it, I like it. That evening we're ouside drinking at a bar and a Chinese woman (a very pretty Chinese woman I might add) asks to get by me and sits down the table next to me. We start chatting (she's also a teacher) and damn it if that 7 times round the Tibetan prayer wheel isn't still exerting it's luck on me as we end up in bed that night (:) ). She's on her own, so I invite her to join our troop for the remainder of the holiday. Thupten leaves us, but first tells us that the Yubeng villagers loved having us and presents us with a scarf each that the villagers had given him, which is bloody awesome. I have his email and phone number in case anyone's going there and needs a guide. I can't recommend him highly enough.

Day 8: Morning, had breakfast in a pizzaria run by a Frenchman, who also gave us some local product to smoke. Don't know if it's policy or good marketing, but it certainly made the food taste better.
Hired some bikes and cycled to a village 15 kms out of town. Nice little place. Famous for Dr Ho, a herbalist shown in Michael Palin's TV show 'Himalaya'. Got some tea off him that's meant to help my health apparently.
Nothing much else except got trashed and spent another great night with Emma (the afore-mentioned pretty Chinese woman).

Day 9: Nothing but shopping today, which was ok. Place too touristy though to find anything of great interest. Kicking myself for not buying things earlier when we were in the smaller places. Thought I'd wait til we'd done the hiking, so it'd be less to carry, but now I can't find any of the things I like. D'oh! Guess it's good enough excuse to come back.
Poignant goodbyes to Emma, exchange emails/phone numbers etc. She lives in Southern China and apparently there's some beautiful scenery there, so that's a good enough reason to visit.
Flight to Shenzhen, bus to HK arriving at 1am. Too late for the ferry so crashed on a mate's floor for the night. Spent yesterday lying on the couch at home eating chocolate (trying to get all those toxins back that the healthy hiking/eating/fresh air had expunged from my body) and comtemplating cleaning up the mess of dirty backpacks and clothes on the floor. Maybe today.


All in all, a great holiday. Great hikes, snow, reaching altitudes impossible in NZ, near-death experiences, out-of-this-world scenery, good deeds, fantastic food (am now addicted to dried yak meat), making new friends, getting trashed, stoned and having great sex. What more could one ask for?





How are the Tibetans treated? Well, the Chinese govt to their credit are trying to improve the villages with running water and electricity.
However...
Tibetans don't like the Chinese much. Can't say I blame them. One of our tour was pretty tactless. He asked Thupten about an incident where the PLA had massacred a whole temple of monks when they first invaded (whoops, sorry - 'liberated') and Thupten said he didn't want to talk about it (can't blame him for that), later telling us that he could be sent to jail for up to 11 years just for mentioning it. (it's in the movie 'KunDun incidently)
China has also 'helped' the Panchen Lama (the 2nd holiest Lama, after the Dalai) to disappear and instituted a new one in his place. The Chinese one isn't recognised by Tibetans, but publicly disagreeing with what's happened can also result in a lengthy prison sentence.
One of the oddest things I saw were signs showing a policeman beating a person over an electric fence. Thupten told us that this was a warning not to steal electricity. Again, a lengthy prison sentence awaits anyone caught doing this - better than a few years ago where the Chinese police had the right to execute the offender then and there.
I remember asking Thupten about the give-way laws on the roads, as there didn't seem to be much logic to them. He replied that the Chinese have more right to the roads and the Tibetans have to pull over to let the Chinese past.
Chinese is taught in all schools now, not Tibetan.
More and more Chinese are moving (or being relocated) into Tibet. The Chinese govt is basically like the Borg: Cultural genocide through assimilation.
Chinese look down on the Tibetans and treat them as 2nd class citizens. One thing that annoyed the hell out of me was how the Chinese treat Tibet. We were driving behind a bus over a pass, thorugh some of the most beautiful scenery imaginable. Meanwhile, there's rubbish being thrown out the windows by the Chinese tourists. When the bus stopped at the top to take pictures, they pushed all their rubbish out the door to let it blow everywhere.
This wasn't an isolated incident. It happened with every Chinese tour bus I saw. At Yubeng village, we weren't allowed into the temple because last year a bunch of chinese tourists basically trashed the place. The walked in without asking, took pictures inside (which is forbidden) and dropped rubbish everywhere. As a result, the monks don't allow any tourists in there any more. This temple btw is one of the holiest ones, because it's near the sacred waterfall and is along the path the Tibetans take for their pilgrimage around the 13 peaks.
I certainly came away with a greater sense of distaste and dislike for the Chinese.
Saint Curie
24-04-2006, 05:22
All in all, a great holiday. Great hikes, snow, reaching altitudes impossible in NZ, near-death experiences, out-of-this-world scenery, good deeds, fantastic food (am now addicted to dried yak meat), making new friends, getting trashed, stoned and having great sex. What more could one ask for?
.

They should put all that in your passport under "purpose of visit". Probably one word for it in some language...
H N Fiddlebottoms VIII
24-04-2006, 05:45
More and more Chinese are moving (or being relocated) into Tibet. The Chinese govt is basically like the Borg: Cultural genocide through assimilation.
...
I certainly came away with a greater sense of distaste and dislike for the Chinese.
My God, can the Chinese leave nothing to Americans? First they stole our abusive labour relations, then they took our cheap-ass manufacturing, then they being paying lipservice to principles that they in no way suport, they've got corruption, they've got beaurocracy, they've got military might that they abuse, they're international pariahs, they've recently started in on an attempt to out do us at being oil-hogs (though we're still #1 there, I think), and now I find out that their destroying other cultures and acting like assholes to foriegners?
What's left? What the fuck is going to be left for Americans?
Muravyets
24-04-2006, 05:51
They should put all that in your passport under "purpose of visit". Probably one word for it in some language...
In English, it's "vacation." :)
Muravyets
24-04-2006, 05:52
My God, can the Chinese leave nothing to Americans? First they stole our abusive labour relations, then they took our cheap-ass manufacturing, then they being paying lipservice to principles that they in no way suport, they've got corruption, they've got beaurocracy, they've got military might that they abuse, they're international pariahs, they've recently started in on an attempt to out do us at being oil-hogs (though we're still #1 there, I think), and now I find out that their destroying other cultures and acting like assholes to foriegners?
What's left? What the fuck is going to be left for Americans?
I'm not sure, but I think the Chinese actually invented all that stuff 1000s of years ago. It's our own damn fault for getting too lazy to beat them at their own game anymore.
Muravyets
24-04-2006, 05:58
I learned the following from the OP:

1. I wish I was in Tibet.

2. The Chinese are a bunch of fucks.

3. I should probably stay out of Tibet. I have a big mouth. What's Han for "Were you raised in a barn? Pick up your goddamned garbage, you lazy shits!"
Maineiacs
24-04-2006, 06:04
So I jump ship in Hong Kong and make my way over to Tibet, and I get on as a looper at a course over in the Himalayas. A looper, you know, a caddy, a looper, a jock. So, I tell them I'm a pro jock, and who do you think they give me? The Dalai Lama, himself. Twelfth son of the Lama. The flowing robes, the grace, bald... striking. So, I'm on the first tee with him. I give him the driver. He hauls off and whacks one -- big hitter, the Lama -- long, into a ten-thousand foot crevice, right at the base of this glacier. And do you know what the Lama says? Gunga galunga...gunga -- gunga lagunga. So we finish the eighteenth and he's gonna stiff me. And I say, "Hey, Lama, hey, how about a little something, you know, for the effort, you know." And he says, "Oh, uh, there won't be any money, but when you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness." So I got that goin' for me, which is nice.

I had to. :D
Aryavartha
24-04-2006, 06:08
Day 6: Walked up to MingYong glacier (an easy hike - only to 3000m). It's one of the longest glaciers in the world apparently, as well as the fastest moving and closest to the equator.

Is not the Siachen Glacier in India, more closer to the equator?

Thanks for the write up anyway. I have met many Tibetan exiles (some who have trekked for months with meagre food to escape to India) in Dharamshala...truly a sad story and with increasing Chinese leverage, we can kiss Tibet goodbye.
Posi
24-04-2006, 06:08
I had to. :D
LOL. I would have gone more "The Champ" with the ending, but still funny.:)
Tsaraine
24-04-2006, 06:14
According to Neal Stephenson's Snow Crash, this is what America has;
When it gets down to it - talking trade balances here - once we've brain-drained all our technology into other countries, once things have evened out, they're making cars in Bolivia and microwave ovens in Tadzhikistan and selling them here - once our edge in natural resources has been made irrelevant by giant Hong Kong ships and dirigibles that can ship North Datoka all the way to New Zealand for a nickel - once the Invisible Hand has taken all those historical inequalities and smeared them out into a broad layer of what a Pakistani brickmaker would consider to be prosperity - y'know what?
There's only four things we do better than anyone else
music
movies
microcode (software)
high-speed pizza delivery
So that's what left for Americans.

As for the Chinese, here's a quote from The Diamond Age which is pretty much accurate;
"How 'bout it," Bud quacked through the hole in the shrink-wrap, "he said I might have other rights. Do I have any other rights?"

The constable looked back over his shoulder, turning his head carefully so he wouldn't lose his balance on that pedomotive. "Don't be jerk," he said in pretty decent English, "This is China."
Unfortunately, I don't have any Neal Stephenson quotes relating to Tibet.
IL Ruffino
24-04-2006, 06:15
Well.. at least.. you.. didn't.. oh who am I kidding. I stoped reading at day 3.
Tarayshia
24-04-2006, 06:22
Well.. at least.. you.. didn't.. oh who am I kidding. I stoped reading at day 3.
LOL!
I actually read the whole thing..
Tarayshia
24-04-2006, 06:23
Not into the, "Let's have sex with strangers," bit..who knows what the chinese have..lol.
Tarayshia
24-04-2006, 06:26
Thank god my boyfriend is Japanese..
Speaking of chinese people, my boyfriend and I were walking down town somewhere. This chinese woman comes up to us and starts talking about how she sees my boyfriend around and how he's gained weight but he looks good..
In broken english of course.
I was so imbarraised!
How fucking rude! My boyfriend has been working out so he's gained a lot of mussle..what a stupid very rude woman.
Zanato
24-04-2006, 06:46
Thank god my boyfriend is Japanese..
Speaking of chinese people, my boyfriend and I were walking down town somewhere. This chinese woman comes up to us and starts talking about how she sees my boyfriend around and how he's gained weight but he looks good..
In broken english of course.
I was so imbarraised!
How fucking rude! My boyfriend has been working out so he's gained a lot of mussle..what a stupid very rude woman.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=G8OHSHOZ-9s&search=sushi%3A%20the%20japanese
Tarayshia
24-04-2006, 06:52
I didn't say the Japanese were perfect.
I actually hate sushi
Demented Hamsters
24-04-2006, 07:38
They should put all that in your passport under "purpose of visit". Probably one word for it in some language...
Perhaps I could just put :D
Myothrnationisaporsche
24-04-2006, 07:41
I didn't say the Japanese were perfect.
I actually hate sushi
Sushi is great.
Demented Hamsters
24-04-2006, 07:45
Not into the, "Let's have sex with strangers," bit..who knows what the chinese have..lol.
Oh, she wasn't that strange. Though she did want to have sex with me, so I guess that makes her a little odd.
Communist Party
24-04-2006, 08:09
I am a Chinese but we do not treat the people of Tibet as 2nd class citizens.
Demented Hamsters
24-04-2006, 09:06
Pimp this ride:
http://shim1.shutterfly.com/procgserv/47b6da02b3127cce98548d72719000000017109YZOW7Zzw
most common type of vehicle in those parts.
And no, that's not me in the background. One of the other teachers.
One of our tour got drunk and stoned and left his camera behind in the bar, so everyone else went round taking dumb pictures with it (this is prob only one I can print here). He only found out today, but to his credit has released them for us all to see.
I wasn't there when they did such naughty stuff, as I was busy doing something else at the time.
Carnivorous Lickers
24-04-2006, 16:21
Thats some adventure-pretty interesting. How many people get to tell of experiences like this ?
Mirchaz
24-04-2006, 16:37
what, no pics of "emma"?
H N Fiddlebottoms VIII
24-04-2006, 16:39
what, no pics of "emma"?
I'm sure he has pics, and I'm also sure that showing them here would violate forum rules, because of . . . ehm . . . *ahem*
Yes.
Mirchaz
24-04-2006, 16:40
I'm sure he has pics, and I'm also sure that showing them here would violate forum rules, because of . . . ehm . . . *ahem*
Yes.
i would think that all pictures aren't of that nature :P
Demented Hamsters
25-04-2006, 03:10
what, no pics of "emma"?
Maybe later, when I get my @#*^!! computer working again. I came back, turned it on and the screen is blank! Now the screen goes all whitey and weird looking.
No idea what's wrong and I'm too busy this week to take it back to the shop (it's still under warranty).
grrr....I've been hanging out to play Oblivion for 3 weeks now, and still can't.
Jihen
25-04-2006, 03:12
...How the hell did you get into Tibet?
Demented Hamsters
25-04-2006, 05:00
...How the hell did you get into Tibet?
Easy.
Drive to Shenzhen (in China) from Hong Kong, take a 2 1/2 hour flight to Shangri La, drive for several hours over increasingly dangerous and dodgy roads, up to 4300m with a sheer drop on one side, then hike 15km over a very snowy mountain pass that tops out at 3600m.
Takes a couple of days.
Omz222
25-04-2006, 05:11
[snip] Meanwhile, there's rubbish being thrown out the windows by the Chinese tourists. [snip]
I certainly came away with a greater sense of distaste and dislike for the Chinese.
Apparently some people forgot that reckless littering by rowdy tourists occur elsewhere as well.

Thank god my boyfriend is Japanese..
Speaking of chinese people, my boyfriend and I were walking down town somewhere. This chinese woman comes up to us and starts talking about how she sees my boyfriend around and how he's gained weight but he looks good..
In broken english of course.
I was so imbarraised!
How fucking rude! My boyfriend has been working out so he's gained a lot of mussle..what a stupid very rude woman.
I've seen North Americans on the street fingering and cursing in public. Does that make Americans and Canadians uncultured and unrefined as well?
Langwell
25-04-2006, 05:14
I am a Chinese but we do not treat the people of Tibet as 2nd class citizens.

I'm Chinese Canadian, and you're brainwashed.

When god was handing out brains, you thought he said "trains" and replied, "no thanks, I'll just take the next one."

And your train never came, so you borrowed one from the commies.
Langwell
25-04-2006, 05:16
I've seen North Americans on the street fingering and cursing in public. Does that make Americans and Canadians uncultured and unrefined as well?

People will be morons regardless of nationality, so it's wrong to make generalizations based on nationality.
Demented Hamsters
25-04-2006, 05:17
Apparently some people forgot that reckless littering by rowdy tourists occur elsewhere as well.
Except it was only the Chinese tourists doing it. I saw lots of other foreigners there, as well as Tibetans (obviously), and the only people I saw spitting in the streets, throwing their still lit cigarettes in the gutter (or in the bushes for that matter), throwing their rubbish on the ground, even when within a few feet of a rubbish bin, walking into Tibetan temples still wearing sunglasses and hats and taking photos inside even though there were signs in English and Chinese asking them not to, were the Chinese.



Except for Emma, but she's different.
Zanato
25-04-2006, 05:22
I didn't say the Japanese were perfect.
I actually hate sushi

You do realize that the entire video was poking fun at the Japanese, I hope. That salt is left outside of the building to ward off evil spirits.
Trilateral Commission
25-04-2006, 05:24
As a Chinese person....
I have to agree with your generalizations. I find that Chinese tourists have a clear pattern of being loud and disrespectful . The problem arose back in the maoist days when manners were persecuted as "bourgeois" and people were encouraged to be uncouth.
Demented Hamsters
25-04-2006, 05:37
As a Chinese person....
I have to agree with your generalizations. I find that Chinese tourists have a clear pattern of being loud and disrespectful . The problem arose back in the maoist days when manners were persecuted as "bourgeois" and people were encouraged to be uncouth.
Maybe that's it.
I figured it's just that the mainland Chinese don't have much contact with the outside world/culture due to the strict controls over the media there. As well, the media is always telling them how wonderful China is over everyone else.
So when they do travel, they don't have much respect for the other person's place or culture, cause their media/education hasn't instilled any empathy into them.
Langwell
25-04-2006, 05:40
Maybe that's it.
I figured it's just that the mainland Chinese don't have much contact with the outside world/culture due to the strict controls over the media there. As well, the media is always telling them how wonderful China is over everyone else.
So when they do travel, they don't have much respect for the other person's place or culture, cause their media/education hasn't instilled any empathy into them.

Ignorance is a bliss. I've been there. Being brainwashed is like living inside the Matrix - pleasant.
Trilateral Commission
25-04-2006, 05:41
Maybe that's it.
I figured it's just that the mainland Chinese don't have much contact with the outside world/culture due to the strict controls over the media there. As well, the media is always telling them how wonderful China is over everyone else.
So when they do travel, they don't have much respect for the other person's place or culture, cause their media/education hasn't instilled any empathy into them.
Whoa yeah that sounds exactly right. That fits with my personal experiences with Chinese society/media.
Dongara
25-04-2006, 06:08
Every day, China becomes more like America. Isn't it wonderful! :D
Economic Associates
25-04-2006, 06:43
Every day, China becomes more like America. Isn't it wonderful! :D

I won't be convinced of that until I see a Chinese version of the Daily Show. :rolleyes: