NationStates Jolt Archive

I just spent two hours last night waiting for an old man to put some oil on my forehead to exacerbate my acne. Thats right, I was confirmed in the Roman Catholic Church. This is not a happy event, I am an athiest. Really the only reason I did it is so my extended family doesn't find out that I am an athiest. But our bishop (I won't mention which one for privacy reasons) said some things that disturb me.

When he started talking he immediately went political on our asses. Talking about the "Culture of Death" (I know I know it was coined by JPII but it is political) he talked about abortion, assisted suicide, the death penalty, and stem cell research. What buged me was that he categorically denounced all stem cell research. Which bugs me. He talked for about a minute about how the young women about to be confirmed are about to perform the most woundrous miracle of all, giving birth. I just find it intolerable that the Catholic Church expects women to have to have children. I hate how it, and most christian faiths really, perscribes gender roles. Another thing had me puzzled, when he was talking about abortion he said that god has no chosen people. Then when the ceremonial part started, he mentioned God blessing these men and women of Gods chosen people. And I was thinking, "WTF?!??!??!" My mother told me that everyone was gods chosen people. How can everyone be chosen; thats not really choosing. Then later he made a joke about how crazy people fight for what they believe in and that chirstianity is worth fighting for. He implied that Christianity is the only thing worth fighting for, which I think would be wrong even if christianity was true. Other things are worth fighting for. My parents agreed with the bishop.

It's this kind of indoctrination is what turned me off religion. How does the church expect to increase attendence and belief if its going to be so inflexible and bigoted. It hold beliefs that a good many of its adherents, especially its young ones, don't quite agree with. They are willing to give in on something like, say, Limbo. But they can't change something really important, like celibacy or women in the preisthood. I do understand that people would leave if they changed these things, but it will kill the Catholic Church.

How does the church expect to increase attendence and belief if its going to be so inflexible and bigoted.

By attracting inflexible, bigoted people. Religion isn't meant to make sense, it's just designed to keep people under the thumb by persuading them that their lives bear some kind of purpose. Many people are willing to believe anything if it stops them questioning and feeling insecure in the world.

Catholicism is so rigid in its rules, its black/white perspective on every issue, that it's a very safe option as far as lifestyle is concerned. Let someone make your opinions for you, and you've got very little to think about, and therefore less chance of being at a loose end when you wake up in the morning.

Just be aware not all Catholic bishops are the same, you just happened to ended up with a more conservative one.

When he started talking he immediately went political on our asses. Talking about the "Culture of Death" (I know I know it was coined by JPII but it is political) he talked about abortion, assisted suicide, the death penalty, and stem cell research. What buged me was that he categorically denounced all stem cell research.
Tall words coming from a religion that fixated Europe upon graveyards and preparing for the hereafter to the detriment of its living citizens throughout the Dark Ages. Especially when you consider how death obssessed Christianity is (the founder/figurehead's moment of glory was getting nailed to a peice of wood, after all).
Okay, obligatory Christian-bashing out of the way, why would you expect a religion to change, sell-out in fact, just to gain new converts? Yeah, sure, that's been the way of catholicism since they started adding pagan festivals and rites to gain new converts, but still: If you don't like the religion, get out of the church. Expecting them to change their core beliefs just to gain your adherence is like expecting the French to learn English, begin bathing, and start loving hamburgers, just so you'll go over and visit them sometime.
It's silly and just plain . . . American of you.

I advise you to stop worrying and start profiting. Confirmation was a major payday when I was a kid.

I just spent two hours last night waiting for an old man to put some oil on my forehead to exacerbate my acne. Thats right, I was confirmed in the Roman Catholic Church. This is not a happy event, I am an athiest. Really the only reason I did it is so my extended family doesn't find out that I am an athiest. But our bishop (I won't mention which one for privacy reasons) said some things that disturb me.
Personally, I'd have just told them I'm atheist. Well, agnostic, in my case. But yeah, just because you want your family to believe you're something you're not, doesn't mean you should have to comply with the whole thing.

As for the hypocrisy of religion - well, every religion is hypocritical to some extent. If you want to be a part of it, go with it, but if you don't, then cause a fuss. Burn down the church! Kill the bishop! Desecrate the graveyard!

*ahem* Sorry, got a bit carried away there. Seriously, go talk to the bishop about it, see what he has to say.

Hey,
you are not alone. There are actualy alot more of your fellow atheists out there than you think. When I was a kid I wanted to join the boy scouts but I told them I couldn't take the oath because I didn't beleive in god. They just walked away without saying a word. We are the easiest group in the world to hate and are treated with less respect than even aids infected drug dealer convicts. Don't despair, there are groups out there that you can turn to for support. I don't know where you are in the world however please find below two links to atheist organizations in the US. The first link is for our group here in New York City, and the second is for the National Organization. You may find links to local affiliates near where you live, even outside the US.
http://www.nyc-atheists.org/
http://www.atheists.org/

Don't despair,
KaS;) ,
Aka: C.W. Burgis, Manhattan

thats very sad.

he ruined the day for the people who were into it by focusing on politics instead of religion. im sure he gets sick of it but its wrong to use such an important day for politics.

as for YOU, as an atheist you should have refused to make vows that you dont mean. comfirmation is for those who are ready to take the vows that their godparents made for them at baptism. they are very serious and you should have stood against them. yeah your parents would have been pissed but if they take it seriously they would have come to understand it.

We are the easiest group in the world to hate and are treated with less respect than even aids infected drug dealer convicts. Don't despair, there are groups out there that you can turn to for support.

Is this some kind of joke?

Don't despair, there are groups out there that you can turn to for support. I don't know where you are in the world however please find below two links to atheist organizations in the US.

What do these organisations actually do?

*snip*

Man, that was quite a lengthy bit. But does opinions of your extended family matter that much that you'd go through that? But that bit about "Women are only good for giving birth" and your parents agreeing to that, you could easily turn it against them. Although liable to start a fight if they behave the way I think they do, it's something that would be handy to use in large public places when you've got some independence from them.

Start with something easy, like start mentioning the points mentioned by the Bishop and see them nod to it. Then you hammer in the big point. Are women only good for giving birth? And if so, is that how your dad see's your mother? And does your mother feel the same way about herself i.e. machine/property?

Granted, it probably would make them more intractable and less likely to consider your points, but sometimes, a sledgehammer works where the dagger doesn't. The basics are the same, but the implementation would be up to you I suppose. Soft or hard approach? Or none at all? You choose.

Is this some kind of joke?
Nope,
it's just a simple fact that in the USA according to both Gallup and Harris Polls, Athiests are the absolutely MOST HATED segment of society, even more hated than Drug Dealers, Murderers and Aids sufferers. Only Child Molesters are more hated than Atheists. We're #99, they are #100.

What do these organisations actually do?
Make fun of Christians, and give atheists a bad name by publicly making assholes out of themselves. I'd have become an atheist a lot sooner if there weren't so many so groups running around, and I think there'd be more acceptance as well.

Nope,
it's just a simple fact that in the USA according to both Gallup and Harris Polls, Athiests are the absolutely MOST HATED segment of society, even more hated than Drug Dealers, Murderers and Aids sufferers. Only Child Molesters are more hated than Atheists. We're #99, they are #100.

I fail to see how this works. It's personal belief; no one's a practicing atheist, therefore other members of the population would have no logical reason to oppose what equates to an absence of something. It's like deciding to hate people who are asexual.

Then again, if you're the kind of atheist that preaches their message whether it's wanted or not, you're no better than religious pressure groups and deserve the hate you get.

I have to say that these kind of situations, although less extreme, is what has pushed me away from religion. I was a christian until about the time I started high school, at 14 or so. I went through the public school system, so I got to meet a lot of people from lots of different backgrounds. I made a lot of friends, who I realized, probably wouldn't be made to feel very welcome at my church, and this was a Methodist church, which is generally one of the more accepting sects of christianity. I was almost ashamed of being associated with the self-righteous, judgmental people I saw at church. I couldn't see how people who claimed to follow a loving and forgiving God could be so harsh and quick to condemn their fellow human beings.

It's like deciding to hate people who are asexual.
I hate asexuals, fucking bastards, budding right in front of me when I'm in the super market; spawning in front of preschools. These days you can't go anywhere without someone shoving their Cellular Mitosis in your face, and it is corrupting our youth.
Won't someone think of the children?!

What do these organisations actually do?
The main focus of our local organization is to provide a gathering point and a peer group for Athiests in the Metropoloitan NYC area. Our organization gathers regularly for social events and outings, as well as protesting for the total seperation of church and state.

The National organization is a rallying point for state by state fights against all aspects of eligion in government; from the intelligent design fights state by state, to "in god we trust" on our money, the removal of "one nation under god" from the pledge of allegiance, to the removal of religios orgaizations as recipients of federal funding as administartors of community social services when there are municipal agencies to do the same task.

Check out the websites. we're not scientologists or wackos, we're your neigbors.

I was at the baptism of my godson Easter weekend actually. It was far less political than yours, I must say. The difficult part for me is that I'm not remotely religious, was never baptised, and I was reciting a litany about believing in the holy trinity and all that jazzmarazz.

However, I'm not an athiest, I'm agnostic. For me it's less about the specifics and more about the ritual and taking a role in my godson's life. (My role won't be religious enough for traditionalists, let's say.)

I fail to see how this works. It's personal belief; no one's a practicing atheist, therefore other members of the population would have no logical reason to oppose what equates to an absence of something. It's like deciding to hate people who are asexual.

Then again, if you're the kind of atheist that preaches their message whether it's wanted or not, you're no better than religious pressure groups and deserve the hate you get.

We don't preach, we accept. Unfortunately the so called Christians in our society do preach, and when they refer to us it is not love they preach but hatred. Religion in the USA is the iggest criminal racket going. We know about it and they are very afraid. Look what they did to Marilyn Muray O'Haire in the 80's. She spoke out and they murdered her.

I used to go to a catholic school when I was 13 and at that point I went along with the prophetic bull**** they stuffed down my throat. But so many things in Religion don't make sense. God is supposed to be Omnicient (All Powerful and All Knowing) so how does he not interfere with free will. Also if he is so loving then why in the bible has it been said that he sent his angels down to kill people in some of the most gruesome ways. The bible was probably written by a bunch of men who wanted recognition and most saints are probably a bunch of people who wanted their name to be immortal.
You are you. You decide what you believe in and want in life. Stand up to your parents, it's your life not theirs.

I fail to see how this works. It's personal belief; no one's a practicing atheist, therefore other members of the population would have no logical reason to oppose what equates to an absence of something. It's like deciding to hate people who are asexual.

Then again, if you're the kind of atheist that preaches their message whether it's wanted or not, you're no better than religious pressure groups and deserve the hate you get.
because, oddly enough, we dont speak up for ourselves enough. the rest of the country is left with the examples of religion haters who make them remove the 10 commandments from the courthouse. and the image in their minds put there by fire and brimstone preachers of atheist=satanist. (and not the lavey brand of satanism)

We don't preach, we accept.

Therein lies the contradiction; you mentioned that your group is trying to change "in god we trust" and other traditions long-ingrained within a religious society.

It would be naive to assume you'd get any reaction short of hatred, as you've made yourself out to be The Enemy.

I just spent two hours last night waiting for an old man to put some oil on my forehead to exacerbate my acne. Thats right, I was confirmed in the Roman Catholic Church. This is not a happy event, I am an athiest.

And you are an insufferable liar. How can I say that? Because a part of the Confirmation ceremony requires the renewal of baptisimal promises and the first one is the statement of belief in God. If you as an athiest can declare you believe in God you must therefore be a person who can lie in public.

Too bad they dropped the good "slap on the face" after Vatican II. :D

I used to go to a catholic school when I was 13 and at that point I went along with the prophetic bull**** they stuffed down my throat. But so many things in Religion don't make sense. God is supposed to be Omnicient (All Powerful and All Knowing) so how does he not interfere with free will. Also if he is so loving then why in the bible has it been said that he sent his angels down to kill people in some of the most gruesome ways. The bible was probably written by a bunch of men who wanted recognition and most saints are probably a bunch of people who wanted their name to be immortal.
You are you. You decide what you believe in and want in life. Stand up to your parents, it's your life not theirs.

The saints never declared themselves such. You have to be dead to be a saint, and at that stage you have no say in the matter.

Omniscient is all seeing and all knowing, omnipotent is all powerful, but both have been applied to the Christian god so you're kinda right.

Therein lies the contradiction; you mentioned that your group is trying to change "in god we trust" and other traditions long-ingrained within a religious society.

It would be naive to assume you'd get any reaction short of hatred, as you've made yourself out to be The Enemy.

We are not preaching that there is no god and forcing it down your throat like the Christians do at every possible opportunity in the US today; like Elder Johnson & Smith of the Mormons knocking at your front door, jews for Jesus pamphleteers in the subway getting in your face, free 7th day adventist gospel text at the grocery checkout, The ten commandments displayed in courtrooms everywhere, "God bless America" sung at every single sporting event in the nation bar none, opening prayers at all city council meetings and at all state and ferderal legislative sessions nationwide, and even references to his close persoonal relationship with "The Lord" by the President of The United States. We are simply campaigning for what is constitutionally correct, the complete and total seperation of church and state.
Did you know that Atheists are NOT ALLOWED to hold elected political office in 9 States? Did you know that if you are required to testify at court trial in 12 states and refuse to place you hand on the bible and say "So Help Me God", you will be held in contempt of court, arrested and placed in jail for up to 90 days and fined until you comply?
This comingling of government and religion is what we stand against. We don't care what you believe in; god, the tooth fairy, the easter bunny, just dont use the government to force your agenda on us.

Whilst laws are based on religious moral values, government and church will never be separated.

We are not preaching that there is no god and forcing it down your throat like the Christians do at every possible opportunity in the US today; like Elder Johnson & Smith of the Mormons knocking at your front door, jews for Jesus pamphleteers in the subway getting in your face, free 7th day adventist gospel text at the grocery checkout,

That would be a gross generalisation. Some sects of Christianity are evangelical, but not all.
The ten commandments displayed in courtrooms everywhere, "God bless America" sung at every single sporting event in the nation bar none, opening prayers at all city council meetings and at all state and ferderal legislative sessions nationwide, and even references to his close persoonal relationship with "The Lord" by the President of The United States. We are simply campaigning for what is constitutionally correct, the complete and total seperation of church and state.
What is wrong with people wanting God to bless America? What is wrong with the President being religious? I'm not acquainted with the constitution, could you point out where it says the church and state be totally separated?
Did you know that Atheists are NOT ALLOWED to hold elected political office in 9 States? Did you know that if you are required to testify at court trial in 12 states and refuse to place you hand on the bible and say "So Help Me God", you will be held in contempt of court, arrested and placed in jail for up to 90 days and fined until you comply?
That does sound rather unfair. Do those 9 states restrict any other forms of religious belief, are any other religions forbidden from holding public office?
This comingling of government and religion is what we stand against. We don't care what you believe in; god, the tooth fairy, the easter bunny, just dont use the government to force your agenda on us.
How are members of other religions using the government to force their agenda on atheists?

I advise you to stop worrying and start profiting. Confirmation was a major payday when I was a kid.
I got but 50 bucks from my grandparent (thats it). Thus far. Hopefully I'll get more.

And so yet another person learns that the purpose of religion is to get money from the brain-washed...

And so yet another person learns that the purpose of religion is to get money from the brain-washed...
I don't need to extort them like that, I have 5 uncles who all give me money for other reasons all of the times.

I just spent two hours last night waiting for an old man to put some oil on my forehead to exacerbate my acne. Thats right, I was confirmed in the Roman Catholic Church. This is not a happy event, I am an athiest. Really the only reason I did it is so my extended family doesn't find out that I am an athiest. But our bishop (I won't mention which one for privacy reasons) said some things that disturb me.

When he started talking he immediately went political on our asses. Talking about the "Culture of Death" (I know I know it was coined by JPII but it is political) he talked about abortion, assisted suicide, the death penalty, and stem cell research. What buged me was that he categorically denounced all stem cell research. Which bugs me. He talked for about a minute about how the young women about to be confirmed are about to perform the most woundrous miracle of all, giving birth. I just find it intolerable that the Catholic Church expects women to have to have children. I hate how it, and most christian faiths really, perscribes gender roles. Another thing had me puzzled, when he was talking about abortion he said that god has no chosen people. Then when the ceremonial part started, he mentioned God blessing these men and women of Gods chosen people. And I was thinking, "WTF?!??!??!" My mother told me that everyone was gods chosen people. How can everyone be chosen; thats not really choosing. Then later he made a joke about how crazy people fight for what they believe in and that chirstianity is worth fighting for. He implied that Christianity is the only thing worth fighting for, which I think would be wrong even if christianity was true. Other things are worth fighting for. My parents agreed with the bishop.

It's this kind of indoctrination is what turned me off religion. How does the church expect to increase attendence and belief if its going to be so inflexible and bigoted. It hold beliefs that a good many of its adherents, especially its young ones, don't quite agree with. They are willing to give in on something like, say, Limbo. But they can't change something really important, like celibacy or women in the preisthood. I do understand that people would leave if they changed these things, but it will kill the Catholic Church.

They expect to retain membership because people like you cave to social pressure. I'll admit that they use very unChristian tools to make their members adhere and espouse unChristian doctrines, but they are never going to have to change so long as people like you are willing to go along with it. If you don't believe, stand up for it.

They expect to retain membership because people like you cave to social pressure. I'll admit that they use very unChristian tools to make their members adhere and espouse unChristian doctrines, but they are never going to have to change so long as people like you are willing to go along with it. If you don't believe, stand up for it.

I was just about to write the exact same thing.

If you're an atheist, then tell your parents and stop going to church.

I was just about to write the exact same thing.

If you're an atheist, then tell your parents and stop going to church.
Ah yes, I thought of that. I have told them, but they'll get punitive if I don't go.

You'll be glad they kept you in church if you find out being a heathen is pretty sad. :p

You are not alone in your sentiments comrade. Even the believers feel that the Catholic Church is pushing it. I for one feel that politics has absolutely no place in the church, and vice versa.

And I agree with Jeruselem. It really comes down to the guy who is at the ceremony. You can get the nicest guy in the world who will go out of his way to make you comfortable, or you can get an uptight fearmonger.

Anyway, welcome to the Club of Disillusioned and Alienated Catholics (or in your case, the Club of Atheists who were Pressured into Confirmation). There are free drinks at the bar and 24/7 Kung Fu movies playing on the big screen.

I advise you to stop worrying and start profiting. Confirmation was a major payday when I was a kid.
Ooh *nod*

When I got confirmed, durring the mass the bishop kept stressing me out because he was asking questions about god and the church.. Thank god he didn't ask me! *hides atheism*

After that we went out to eat.. I hated that shitty place.. Well anyway.. I remember getting almost $600.. that's hawt.

I just spent two hours last night waiting for an old man to put some oil on my forehead to exacerbate my acne. Thats right, I was confirmed in the Roman Catholic Church. This is not a happy event, I am an athiest. Really the only reason I did it is so my extended family doesn't find out that I am an athiest. But our bishop (I won't mention which one for privacy reasons) said some things that disturb me.

When he started talking he immediately went political on our asses. Talking about the "Culture of Death" (I know I know it was coined by JPII but it is political) he talked about abortion, assisted suicide, the death penalty, and stem cell research. What buged me was that he categorically denounced all stem cell research. Which bugs me. He talked for about a minute about how the young women about to be confirmed are about to perform the most woundrous miracle of all, giving birth. I just find it intolerable that the Catholic Church expects women to have to have children. I hate how it, and most christian faiths really, perscribes gender roles. Another thing had me puzzled, when he was talking about abortion he said that god has no chosen people. Then when the ceremonial part started, he mentioned God blessing these men and women of Gods chosen people. And I was thinking, "WTF?!??!??!" My mother told me that everyone was gods chosen people. How can everyone be chosen; thats not really choosing. Then later he made a joke about how crazy people fight for what they believe in and that chirstianity is worth fighting for. He implied that Christianity is the only thing worth fighting for, which I think would be wrong even if christianity was true. Other things are worth fighting for. My parents agreed with the bishop.

It's this kind of indoctrination is what turned me off religion. How does the church expect to increase attendence and belief if its going to be so inflexible and bigoted. It hold beliefs that a good many of its adherents, especially its young ones, don't quite agree with. They are willing to give in on something like, say, Limbo. But they can't change something really important, like celibacy or women in the preisthood. I do understand that people would leave if they changed these things, but it will kill the Catholic Church.

You should never have taken confirmation if this is how you feel. Honestly, living a lie is stupid. Rather than be who you are, you swore yourself to something you disagree with totally? :rolleyes:

That would be a gross generalisation. Some sects of Christianity are evangelical, but not all.

What is wrong with people wanting God to bless America? What is wrong with the President being religious? I'm not acquainted with the constitution, could you point out where it says the church and state be totally separated?

That does sound rather unfair. Do those 9 states restrict any other forms of religious belief, are any other religions forbidden from holding public office?

How are members of other religions using the government to force their agenda on atheists?

Dude,
take it easy now. Thank you for demonstrating the visceral negativity that I face every day as an empirical free thinker. Look, this is not an exersize in forensics and I'm no going to try to debate you. It is obvious that you believe in magic, god, santa clause, the easter bunny, fairies, that the check is in the mail and whatever; not that there's anything wrong with that. I just don't think that that kind of beleif has any function in government. I read a post from someone who was of like mind, an Athiest, and decided to reach out with some information. Have fun wasting your Sundays in the Pews, I'm gonna be fishing.
Respectfuly,
A common sense athiest who is probably you neighbor.

Dude,
take it easy now. Thank you for demonstrating the visceral negativity that I face every day as an empirical free thinker. Look, this is not an exersize in forensics and I'm no going to try to debate you. It is obvious that you believe in magic, god, santa clause, the easter bunny, fairies, that the check is in the mail and whatever; not that there's anything wrong with that. I just don't think that that kind of beleif has any function in government. I read a post from someone who was of like mind, an Athiest, and decided to reach out with some information. Have fun wasting your Sundays in the Pews, I'm gonna be fishing.
Respectfuly,
A common sense athiest who is probably you neighbor.


No need to be rude. No one put a gun to your head to go do this; just because you felt it was easier to lie to family and friends rather than be yourself is no call to ridicule the rest of us for actually standing up for what we believe in.

Kataganistan,
thank you for your response. Um, er, please re-read the thread in it's entirety. I am the OTHER athiest who came out to support the original poster. I am not a liar, and take offense at your defamation of my character. Your religious zeal has robbed you of the ability to discern the facts that were right in front of you, and does now in fact allow me to ridicule you for standing up in such an abhorrent adhominem manner. Shame on you. Please retract your libelous statement of may character.
Thanks and have a wonderful day,
KaS.

No need to be rude. No one put a gun to your head to go do this; just because you felt it was easier to lie to family and friends rather than be yourself is no call to ridicule the rest of us for actually standing up for what we believe in.
Kataganistan,
thank you for your response. Um, er, please re-read the thread in it's entirety. I am the OTHER athiest who came out to support the original poster. I am not a liar, and take offense at your defamation of my character. Your religious zeal has robbed you of the ability to discern the facts that were right in front of you, and does now in fact allow me to ridicule you for standing up in such an abhorrent adhominem manner. Shame on you. Please retract your libelous statement of my character.
Thanks and have a wonderful day,
KaS.

You are not alone in your sentiments comrade. Even the believers feel that the Catholic Church is pushing it. I for one feel that politics has absolutely no place in the church, and vice versa.

And I agree with Jeruselem. It really comes down to the guy who is at the ceremony. You can get the nicest guy in the world who will go out of his way to make you comfortable, or you can get an uptight fearmonger.

Anyway, welcome to the Club of Disillusioned and Alienated Catholics (or in your case, the Club of Atheists who were Pressured into Confirmation). There are free drinks at the bar and 24/7 Kung Fu movies playing on the big screen.
you guys get kungfu movies??

all WE get are endless reruns of regis and kelly

i dont attend much.

Yuo shouldnt of gone with the comformation if you dont belive in its principles and God, I dont get conformation really for the bible doesnt even mention about getting comfirmed before you can take the bread and wine . i ddint get anything when i got comfirmed when i was younger all i got was some cake and handshake form the bishop and small ASP Book II

Nope,
it's just a simple fact that in the USA according to both Gallup and Harris Polls, Athiests are the absolutely MOST HATED segment of society, even more hated than Drug Dealers, Murderers and Aids sufferers. Only Child Molesters are more hated than Atheists. We're #99, they are #100.
I find this seriously hard to believe and I'm gonna have to call BS on it until you can prove it with unbiased sources.

I also would like to see prove that some states don't allow you to not swear on a Bible or other religious terms, and that they don't let Atheists hold office. There may be old laws, but hardly think they'll survive a challenge.

The references to God throughout the US is not very secular, but it hardly amounts to persecution.

Kataganistan,
thank you for your response. Um, er, please re-read the thread in it's entirety. I am the OTHER athiest who came out to support the original poster. I am not a liar, and take offense at your defamation of my character. Your religious zeal has robbed you of the ability to discern the facts that were right in front of you, and does now in fact allow me to ridicule you for standing up in such an abhorrent adhominem manner. Shame on you. Please retract your libelous statement of may character.
Thanks and have a wonderful day,
KaS.


My religious zeal? No. I think YOU owe me an apology for your characterization of my motive. I didn't characterize ANYONE as 'bad' for not believing in God -- simply for taking an oath that they had no intention of keeping and swearing that they believed in something they clearly have contempt for. Lying to and about yourself simply because it is expedient is the worse kind of lie you can make. It is disrespectful to the self. Then to compound it by ridiculing what one has sworn oneself to be? Cowardly in the extreme.

That said, it was in error that the comment was directed at you. That had nothing to do with 'religious zeal' and everything to do with a lapse of memory. Mea culpa, I am not perfect.

That said, I'd love to see your statistics on how hated atheists are.

They expect to retain membership because people like you cave to social pressure.

Actually, yes. The church doesn't realize the need to change exactly because people like the thread starter don't speak up. I can't count the number of young people I've met who were getting confirmed in the Catholic Church because they didn't want to disappoint their family, but had serious doubts about the wisdom of certain parts of church teaching or custom. Essentially, they refuse to make the Church come to terms with them, and let it slide into what is probably grave error because of their fear of that social pressure.

If you don't believe, stand up for it.

This may seem ironic, but...amen, Xeno. If you don't believe in God, Exomnia, just say so. Don't pretend to be a theist. It cheapens both your beliefs and Catholic beliefs, and makes you into a liar.

Tis why I gave up being a fundamentalist. They all have these advanced scripts and I'd always stumble over contradictions, making my work as a fundamentalist short lived.
What I like about religion is the meanings and reasons it does offer. You take what little you need and ignore the rest. The stories the religions are based on are all metaphors and are not to be taken too seriously. If your bishop wishes to diss abortion then let him. It has only limited effect anyway. If you want an abortion there's not much he can do about it anyway.

Im not a christian or anything, but whenever you ever see a debate its always the athiests who are outspoken. They constantly say the most insulting things, very offensive and patronising, without backing any of it up ever!!!! I would expect religous people to do this much more but ive come to realise they are much more sensible with their debates.

Note:
Im not talking about the initial post, but many of the ones after this and of course many other posts in different threads.

That said, I'd love to see your statistics on how hated atheists are.

Well I live in the UK which is as religously apathetic as you can get but in America apparently we're the most distrusted minority:

April 2, 2006 -- Given the increasing religiosity of American culture, it's perhaps not too surprising that a new study out this month finds that Americans are not fond of atheists and trust them less than they do other groups. The depth of this distrust is a bit astonishing nonetheless.

More than 2,000 randomly selected people were interviewed by researchers from the University of Minnesota.


Asked whether they would disapprove of a child's wish to marry an atheist, 47.6 percent of those interviewed said yes. Asked the same question about Muslims and African-Americans, the yes responses fell to 33.5 percent and 27.2 percent, respectively. The yes responses for Asian-Americans, Hispanics, Jews and conservative Christians were 18.5 percent, 18.5 percent, 11.8 percent and 6.9 percent, respectively.

When asked which groups did not share their vision of American society, 39.5 percent of those interviewed mentioned atheists. Asked the same question about Muslims and homosexuals, the figures dropped to a slightly less depressing 26.3 percent and 22.6 percent, respectively. For Hispanics, Jews, Asian-Americans and African-Americans, they fell further to 7.6 percent, 7.4 percent, 7.0 percent and 4.6 percent, respectively.

The study contains other results, but these are sufficient to underline its gist: Atheists are seen by many Americans (especially conservative Christians) as alien and are, in the words of sociologist Penny Edgell, the study's lead researcher, "a glaring exception to the rule of increasing tolerance over the last 30 years."

Edgell also maintains that atheists seem to be outside the limits of American morality, which has largely been defined by religion.

Many of those interviewed saw atheists as cultural elitists, amoral materialists, or given to criminal behavior or drugs. She states, "Our findings seem to rest on a view of atheists as self-interested individuals who are not concerned with the common good."

Of course, it should go without saying, but won't, that belief in God isn't at all necessary to have a keen ethical concern for others.


The study will appear in the April issue of the American Sociological Review and is co-written by assistant professor Joseph Gerteis and associate professor Doug Hartmann.

I'm afraid the link to the University of Minnesota isn't working so I can't give you a more reliable source than ABC News (http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=1786422&page=1&technology=true).

If you don't believe in God, Exomnia, just say so. Don't pretend to be a theist. It cheapens both your beliefs and Catholic beliefs, and makes you into a liar.
I see it as pleasing my extended family, they would be upset if they knew.

I don't think I ever pointed this out, my parents know.

I see it as pleasing my extended family, they would be upset if they knew.

I don't think I ever pointed this out, my parents know.

Just to ask what would be the worst that would happen if you told them you're an atheist?

Well I live in the UK which is as religously apathetic as you can get but in America apparently we're the most distrusted minority:



I'm afraid the link to the University of Minnesota isn't working so I can't give you a more reliable source than ABC News (http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=1786422&page=1&technology=true).

I wonder about the sampling though; in all honesty in an urban area like NYC people just don't care about who or what someone chooses to worship (or not).

Really the only reason I did it is so my extended family doesn't find out that I am an athiest.
WTF?!

Just tell them. Tell them that you aren't gonna discuss this, and you'll settle the score in the afterlife.