NationStates Jolt Archive

Would you move to Cuba under Fidel for life?

Cuba where you would recieve free government provided healthcare and education, whichever way it finances it.

Now financed by Venezuelan oil money.

Where you can vote for your representatives to The Cuban National Assembly.

In a one Political Party state.

Cuba, where your President is Fidel for life.

I wont segregate the polls by regions this time, how about that, should I have?

Nope

Me gusta free enterprise.

(gosh, that's sounding redundant... but for every thread, it needs to be said once I suppose. hehe)

Yes, I would move there, and am actively looking for a way to do so. I may complete a year or more of my Law degree in Cuba.

Nope

Me gusta free enterprise.

(gosh, that's sounding redundant... but for every thread, it needs to be said once I suppose. hehe)

Frangland I am so happy you was the first to vote and post on my thread.

Gracias

Is this how Americans feel good about themselves? Going around comparing their country to "3rd world" states?

Please rember that despite the so-called embargo with the big hole and remaining sanctions.

Cuba trades with most of the world, including buying over a hundred million $ Dollars worth of goods from the USA each year on a cash as you buy basis.

So you dont really have to worry about that.

You mean this Cuba?

http://therealcuba.com/index.htm

:upyours: Sure....

Is this how Americans feel good about themselves? Going around comparing their country to "3rd world" states?
No, we feel good about ourselves because we live in nice homes, drive fast or huge cars, are allowed to go to shooting ranges or hunting, and generally enjoy a high standard of living.

We talk about third world countries on NS because it's kind of a political site. Not that it's easy to notice with all the threads about Chuck Norris, sex, drugs/alcohol, and comic book heros.

Is this how Americans feel good about themselves? Going around comparing their country to "3rd world" states?


3rd world countries that we CREATE...

DCD: Well I think it is safe to say the average Cuban has a more meaningfull life than you.

3rd world countries that we CREATE...
What are you talking about? How did we create the current conditions in Cuba?

Yes, I would move there, and am actively looking for a way to do so. I may complete a year or more of my Law degree in Cuba.

Sinuhue, I can uderstand your personal socialist leaning views, but how can you support a one party state government, where the Cuban National Assembly meets twice a year or when convened by Fidel or Ricardo Alarcon, A polituburo member in the only political party allowed in Cuba?

You who im sure must have argued for multy party elections in your native nation of Chile.

So your views could also be represented in Parliment, to use the term Parliment.

Well I think it is safe to say the average Cuban has a more meaningfull life than you.
How do you figure that? I have everything the average Cuban has, friends, family and all that, plus I've got more stuff. How is a Cuban's life more meaningfull?

Is this how Americans feel good about themselves? Going around comparing their country to "3rd world" states?
Seems like it. It's all these particular folks have been doing today. And yesterday.

Sinuhue, I can uderstand your personal socialist leaning views, but how can you support a one party state government, where the Cuban National Assembly meets twice a year or when convened by Fidel or Ricardo Alarcon, A polituburo member in the only political party allowed in Cuba?

You who im sure must have argued for multy party elections in your native nation of Chile.

So your views could also be represented in Parliment, to use the term Parliment.
We've discussed this countless times, La Habana. You already know my answers.

And I'm native. My husband is the Chilean:D

Nah, I'm not too keen on fake communists. All governments are hypocritical to some extent, the corrupt American system is in no way even close to an exception, but these false Marxists take it to a level that is just ridiculous. "We liberate the proletariat!" while installing a government that allows few, if any, rights for the common man and actually institutionalizing a class system (Party leaders > Other Party members > skilled workers > unskilled workers [basically]).

No, I am fond of my freedoms.

What are you talking about? How did we create the current conditions in Cuba?

Current and past conditions in Cuba are largely the result of American intervention in the Carribean and Central America (see Banana Republics) Do some research and you will see Amercian tentacles everywhere.

Shutting out a country because you diagree with their government is not the answer.

Frangland I am so happy you was the first to vote and post on my thread.

Gracias

De nada. Me gusta ayudar a mis amigos. hehe

We feel good about ourselves because we live in nice homes, drive fast or huge cars, are allowed to go to shooting ranges or hunting, and generally enjoy a high standard of living.

DCD: Need I spell it out for you! M-A-T-E-R-I-A-L-I-S-M. You cannot be happy if what matters most to you is driving an SUV to the shooting range. Cubans have everything that is meaningfull: Family, sunny beaches, friendly compassionate society... and a government that puts people first.

You mean this Cuba?

http://therealcuba.com/index.htm

:upyours: Sure....

If you would like to move to Cuba as an average Cuban Citizen, not as a tourist, you may do so if you wish, and find out how it really is.

I could send you family remittances, or better yet your family could send you hard currency money family remittances to exchance for CUC money, Cuban Convertible Pesos, so you could buy only certain products in hard currency stores.

First of all I am 98% sure he was being 90% sarcastic and second of all
and a government that puts people first. Not sure you hit the money on that one, and I honestly don't know enough about Cuba to say anything about the others.

If you would like to move to Cuba as an average Cuban Citizen, not as a tourist, you may do so if you wish, and find out how it really is.

I could send you family remittances, or better yet your family could send you hard currency money family remittances to exchance for CUC money, Cuban Convertible Pesos, so you could buy only certain products in hard currency stores.

You have no idea what you are talking about, I worked with a woman who lived in Cuba for 2 years. Sure, they do not have all the material goods you have, but unlike you, that is not how they measure progress. Cubans are paid very little, but they get many things free. Yes every worker gets standard currency for food & basic goods, and convertable pesos for disposible income, and yes Cuba is poor by American standards.

Current and past conditions in Cuba are largely the result of American intervention in the Carribean and Central America (see Banana Republics) Do some research and you will see Amercian tentacles everywhere.

Shutting out a country because you diagree with their government is not the answer.
I know we intervened in much of Latin America, but after Castro's revolution in 1959, the US was unable to do much to cuba. Sure there was the failed Bay of Pigs invasion, and there is the embargo, but Cuba can and does still trade with the rest of the world. Since 1959, for over 40 years, Cuba's fate has been in it's own hands. If it's hasn't become a first world country it's Castro's fault, not the USA's.

DCD: Need I spell it out for you! M-A-T-E-R-I-A-L-I-S-M. You cannot be happy if what matters most to you is driving an SUV to the shooting range. Cubans have everything that is meaningfull: Family, sunny beaches, friendly compassionate society... and a government that puts people first.
LOL I think you meant to say "...first on the chopping block."
If the Cuban government puts the people first why doesn't it allow any free elections? How about free speech and press? Why does your "President" (dictator) control everything? I congratulate the ability of Fidel to not go the full extent of the Leninist track and end with a Cult of Personality, but still, an extremely hypocritical and oppressive government none the less.

DCD: Need I spell it out for you! M-A-T-E-R-I-A-L-I-S-M. You cannot be happy if what matters most to you is driving an SUV to the shooting range. Cubans have everything that is meaningfull: Family, sunny beaches, friendly compassionate society... and a government that puts people first.
Who says that I value things more than the people in my life? I have family, the Jersey shore, plenty of friends and aquaintances, and my government doesn't censor my speech. On top of that I enjoy a higher standard of living. Please don't try to tell me that I'm worse off than the average Cuban or I'll have to start wondering what you've been smoking.

Who says that I value things more than the people in my life? I have family, the Jersey shore, plenty of friends and aquaintances, and my government doesn't censor my speech. On top of that I enjoy a higher standard of living. Please don't try to tell me that I'm worse off than the average Cuban or I'll have to start wondering what you've been smoking.

...I'll have to start wondering what you've been smoking.

and then ask for some.

hehe

...I'll have to start wondering what you've been smoking.

and then ask for some.

hehe
I very rarely ever smoke that stuff anymore. Very rarely, but not never.

While I do not agree with everything Castro does, Cuba is far from being the last country I would like to live in. I would definitely prefer Cuba over the USA, for example. So I voted "yes".

While I do not agree with everything Castro does, Cuba is far from being the last country I would like to live in. I would definitely prefer Cuba over the USA, for example. So I voted "yes".

did you vote in the related poll regarding where you'd go if you had to leave your country?

DCD, you miss my point. You said, on behalf of all Americans that you feel good about yourselves because you are rich, drive big cars and can shoot things.

I ask a Cuban what makes them great they say compassionate friendly society, good family, education...

From what I gather from the U.S. on this forum, their society is anything but compassionate.

I very rarely ever smoke that stuff anymore. Very rarely, but not never.

what stuff?

did you vote in the related poll regarding where you'd go if you had to leave your country?

Yes, I chosed Venezuela and explained briefly why. Cuba would have been my second choice, on this one.

DCD, you miss my point. You said, on behalf of all Americans that you feel good about yourselves because you are rich, drive big cars and can shoot things. Y

I ask a Cuban what makes them great they say compassionate friendly society, good family, education...

From what I gather from the U.S. on this forum, their society is anything but compassionate.
I hardly would consider the Cuban gov't compassionate.

I would not move to Cuba, much too hot there.

I hardly would consider the Cuban gov't compassionate.

It is, definitely. They are using some hard means because they are in a very hard situation, but they do their best to improve the life of their citizens - and are quite good at it.

Providing healthcare, food, housing, education to everyone is definitely much more compassionate than what most leaders of the world do.

You are forgetting other wonderful things about Cuba:
It is a country that is so great, Americans risk their lives on poorly made rafts to get there.
AIDS patients are locked away in sanitoriums.
Famous for the longest-serving black political prisoner (longer than Mandela) Eusebio Penalver.
Pure blacks make up a large portion (though not majority) of Cuba's population and but 82% of the prison population and .08% of the ruling party.
The wonderful prison system really sets people straight. In 1980 Anthony Garnet, a former Black Panther, came back to the US after having hijacked a plane in 1968, begging to be sent to an American maximum security prison. (There may be a little racism there though. Another former Black Panther, Garland Grant, after having experienced the wonderful communist paradise, said there might be more there than in Mississippi.)
It is a small country that received the equivalent of several Marshall Plans (the programme that rebuilt several large European nations) in aid from the Soviet Union, yet still has that Third-world charm.

http://www.cubafreepress.org/cartoons/car020131-01.jpg

I hardly would consider the Cuban gov't compassionate.
That is debatable of course. The government is not society, and Cuban society is definitely compassionate. Go there, and you will never see so many friendly people again in your life!

That is debatable of course. The government is not society, and Cuban society is definitely compassionate. Go there, and you will never see so many friendly people again in your life!
According to Sinhue this is true, so I believe you. Plus they are big baseball fans so they cant be all bad.

I think I will stick with the U.K far too much fun being British if you ask me

Just to give you some stats .. CUBA vs. USA

1. Life expectancy is just about the same in both Cuba and the United States. Whether you are born in Havanna or in Miami, you can expect to live 76 years.

2. Among adult Cuban males, the mortality rate is actually LOWER than in the United States.

3. Cuba's health system provides almost two times the number of physicians per 1,000 people that the United States can supply.

4. However, the literacy rate in Cuba is ONLY 1% lower than in the United States. And even though Cuba is a much poorer country, classes are smaller.

The U.S. economy is 500 times bigger than Cuba's — and the average Cuban has an income 20 times less than his or her counterpart in the United States.

But they definitley have better healthcare and education . . .

--Americans will spend $421 billion of their own money in 2006 on health care, up from $248.8 billion in 2005.

Is America still oh so perfect?

Cuban people and Americans in general are compassionate.

Their governments are not, never have been and I don't guess on the future.

Cuba is a lot poorer and poorly administrated.
The USA is a lot richer and also poorly administrated.

So if I'm going to have to endure, I'm going to make the comfortable choice.

Is America still oh so perfect?
Who ever said America was perfect is an idiot.
But Cuba isn't either. A lot father from it than the USA if you ask me.

--Americans will spend $421 billion of their own money in 2006 on health care, up from $248.8 billion in 2005.

Is America still oh so perfect?

American private citizens can afford to pay out more money in healthcare than Cuba's entire economy runs through in a decade and they still have the higher standard of living?

Who is closer to perfection again???

No. I like where I live now and I don't like dictators.

American private citizens can afford to pay out more money in healthcare than Cuba's entire economy runs through in a decade and they still have the higher standard of living?

Wow another arrogant American gloating about money! Please continue the stereotype!

No, I would not.

I'd rather pay 40K a year for my education, pay $20-300 monthly for Health insurance, live in the US under some policies I don't agree with (but still have a say as to who is in power every 4 years), and live in a really nice home which I own without some dictator trying to well, dictate me, than living in Cuba.

I have Cuban friends and I've been to Cuba, but in comparison to the US and Italy it fails.

Sure. Why not?

Fun in the Sun, baby. Fun in the Sun.

Up the revolution!

--Americans will spend $421 billion of their own money in 2006 on health care, up from $248.8 billion in 2005.

A lot of that is spent on discretionary healthcare rather than essential healthcare; we're spending that money because we want to, not because we have to.

No, never. Monaco, Switzerland or Scandinavia for me.

Wow another arrogant American gloating about money! Please continue the stereotype!

What the hell, I wasn't serious!

So far we got:

No, we feel good about ourselves because we live in nice homes, drive fast or huge cars...

You are forgetting other wonderful things about Cuba:
It is a country that is so great, Americans risk their lives on poorly made rafts to get there.

American private citizens can afford to pay out more money in healthcare than Cuba's entire economy runs through in a decade and they still have the higher standard of living?

and now,

I'd rather pay 40K a year for my education, pay $20-300 monthly for Health insurance...

If Cuba is so good, such an island Paradise.

1. If you are not one of the lucky one's to own a 1950 s car with all the modern extras, your common forms of transportation are,

Overcrowded buses Cubans call the pill, you take one every 6 hours.

Riding a bicycle to work, or anywhere else.

On foot and pidiendo botella, hitchhiking a ride on a truck or bus.

Or la guarandinga, a horse drawn carriage.

2. No cable, or satelite dishes allowed because this is a form of freedom of information.

3. Where your overseas relatives would be able to stay in Hotels and eat in restaurants reserved for tourists only, while you an average Cuban Citizen would not be allowed to do so, with hard currency money $ or not.

4. Where your overseas relatives would have to send you hard currency money, Dollars $ or Euros to exchange for CUC Money, Cuban Convertible Pesos, so could buy certain products in government hard currency stores.

5. Riding a bicycle to work, like my girl cousin does, the one that works in a government company office with computers, and has a job better than mine, a job that would pay great in any nation in the world except Cuba.

She was allowed to send me e-mails from her computer at work, until one day I received a notice from the Cuban government, barred for political reasons.

Even though knowing this, we never talked good or bad about Cuba or Fidel, I guess they wanted to see if she would ask me to send hard Currency money $.

I am not the only overseas Cuban this has happend too, and I wont be the last either.

6. You would receive government provided free education and healthcare financed by the government wichever way it finances it, now with Venezuelan oil money.

7. You would be able to vote for your representative in the Cuban National Assembly that meets twice a year or when convened by Fidel or Ricardo Alarcon a politburo party member in the only political party allowed.

8. You would be watched over by committess of the defense of the revolution, that would report you to the police and other security agencys of the government.

Would keep a record of your loyalty to the revolution or not.

9. Where you would not be allowed a home computer to share your diffrent economic, politcal and social views on a site like Nationstates because Fidel for life would not allow it.

These are just a few exsamples.

If Cuba is so good, such an island Paradise.


Sign me up, baby!! Fun in the Sun.

:gundge: no i would not like to join cuba thak you very much, BUT you should all join LIFF:rolleyes:

What the hell, I wasn't serious!

So far we got:







and now,

Has nothing to do with being arrogant. We said, we have a high standard of living and we enjoy it, and more so who are you to look down on us because we enjoy how we live. We received 12 years of education from the government, some of us went to get a college degree, and we worked our asses off to have a high standard of living. So, there is absolutely no way I would ever be so crazy that I'd give it up to live in a hovel, drive a car from the 50's, and starve to death while my family members were held up in some Gulag.

Grazi, but I'll pass.

If Cuba was so wonderful, then thousands of Cuban immigrants wouldn't have flocked to the US.

I'm not a fan of the heat.
So it's Scotland for me for the forseable future then!

Maybe if he abandoned authoritarian statism for a more genuine and democratic socialism.

Nope, again, as with Venezuela, I think my own nation of citizenship covers my ideals neatly and efficiently.

A lot of that is spent on discretionary healthcare rather than essential healthcare; we're spending that money because we want to, not because we have to.

Isn't there something wrong with a system that puts more priority on providing the rich with discretionary health care than providing the poor with essential health care?

I'm not a fan of the heat.
So it's Scotland for me for the forseable future then!
Even a pallid Scotsman could learn to cope.

Fun in the Sun...

I know we intervened in much of Latin America, but after Castro's revolution in 1959, the US was unable to do much to cuba. Sure there was the failed Bay of Pigs invasion, and there is the embargo, but Cuba can and does still trade with the rest of the world. Since 1959, for over 40 years, Cuba's fate has been in it's own hands. If it's hasn't become a first world country it's Castro's fault, not the USA's.


I agree with you, BUT.. Castro has used the US embago to bolster his "Revolution" by blaming the US for all of its troubles. And the fact that Cuba is still one of the poorest 3rd world countries in the West is because of pressure and influence from the US on other countries NOT to trade with Cuba. This coupled with a closed prison state where average Cubans don't even have access to the internet (they are at least 20 years behind the rest of Latin America Technologically) then you have a recipe for the perfect opressive dictatorship dressed in a socialist utopia.

I agree with you, BUT.. Castro has used the US embago to bolster his "Revolution" by blaming the US for all of its troubles. And the fact that Cuba is still one of the poorest 3rd world countries in the West is because of pressure and influence from the US on other countries NOT to trade with Cuba. This coupled with a closed prison state where average Cubans don't even have access to the internet (they are at least 20 years behind the rest of Latin America Technologically) then you have a recipe for the perfect opressive dictatorship dressed in a socialist utopia.
Are you sure about the last bit? The internet is not prevalent, I'll agree, but Cuba has some of the best biotech research labs in the world.

Having lived in a Communist state (Czechoslovakia early 80s) and visiting several others (Poland, East Germany, Hungary), I would say "hell no".

I would not personally want to move from a 1st world democracy to go to live in a banana republic with a GDPPC of $3,000 run by a crazy communist tyrant with a silly beard.

Just to give you some stats .. CUBA vs. USA

1. Life expectancy is just about the same in both Cuba and the United States. Whether you are born in Havanna or in Miami, you can expect to live 76 years.

2. Among adult Cuban males, the mortality rate is actually LOWER than in the United States.

3. Cuba's health system provides almost two times the number of physicians per 1,000 people that the United States can supply.

4. However, the literacy rate in Cuba is ONLY 1% lower than in the United States. And even though Cuba is a much poorer country, classes are smaller.

The U.S. economy is 500 times bigger than Cuba's — and the average Cuban has an income 20 times less than his or her counterpart in the United States.

But they definitley have better healthcare and education . . .

--Americans will spend $421 billion of their own money in 2006 on health care, up from $248.8 billion in 2005.

Is America still oh so perfect?

Wow, Im impressed, you are very good a regurgitating statistics. But you are obviously too stupid to understand them, or you have neve BEEN TO CUBA and seen and lived there under a dictatorship. Once you have done that, get back to me, we'll see how you feel then. All thse idiots who defend Castro obviously have no idea what it is like for the Cuban people living under his thumb. www.therealcuba.com:sniper:

Are you sure about the last bit? The internet is not prevalent, I'll agree, but Cuba has some of the best biotech research labs in the world.

Yeah, 15-20 years BEHIND the US, Europe and Asia, there is NO comparison.

Sure. A boat, a hammock and a few free-range chickens are all a man needs.

Considering the "for life" thing is probably relatively short these days, I'd say why not? Might be fun to be in a country going through sweeping change.

Oh wait ... I will be ... in November.

Nice.

Originally posted by Callixtina
Wow, Im impressed, you are very good a regurgitating statistics. But you are obviously too stupid to understand them, or you have neve BEEN TO CUBA and seen and lived there under a dictatorship. Once you have done that, get back to me, we'll see how you feel then. All thse idiots who defend Castro obviously have no idea what it is like for the Cuban people living under his thumb. www.therealcuba.com


Wow and you're really good at regurgitating websites. But you're obviously too lazy to read them. Are you trying to tell me that by going to this website I will be magically transported to Cuba to have the "real Fidel experience"? How good was your tan after living under Fidel?

As far as the Photos of firing squads on your cuba website, what's your take on Guantanamo Bay?

You might also be interested to know that the USA supports a plethora of right-wing dictatorships. Does a name like Pinochet ring a bell?

What about the Patriot Act? What's your take on people having access to your Library searches?

ttyl
:)

P.S. what was the connection between me being too stupid to understand my statistics when they were about healthcare and education, not firing squads like your website? They still have good education and healthcare, am I right?

One more thing.

So the statistic that:

Among adult Cuban males, the mortality rate is actually LOWER than in the United States.

So what exactly are you trying to say about the US then? Because remember those pictures on your omniscient website about the real Cuba? You know the ones with the boomsticks ...

Yeah that's what I thought . . .

One more thing.

So the statistic that:

Among adult Cuban males, the mortality rate is actually LOWER than in the United States.

So what exactly are you trying to say about the US then? Because remember those pictures on your omniscient website about the real Cuba? You know the ones with the boomsticks ...

Yeah that's what I thought . . .

Is that counting all the ones that drown trying to escape to Florida?

I guess if people would stop fleeing that " Paradise " in every imaginary way possible this thread may make sense . But when you have a country full of people looking to escape...hmmmm ...like by driving a 55 chevy accross the water...or swimming or rafting or by whatever means possible ...whhats the point ?

:o all these arrogant Americans obsessed with economic and social liberty...yeah awful steriotype. For me I'd rather have a bad government who gives me social and economic freedom than a good government that doesn't give me social or economic freedom. I would also rate the Cuban government as worse than Americas. Its so easy to take everyones money and then produce figures spouting we're better than America because we can make someone live longer...we just need to take all their money and dictate their life. :headbang:

Would you move to Cuba under Fidel for life?

Cuba where you would recieve free government provided healthcare and education, whichever way it finances it.

Now financed by Venezuelan oil money.

Where you can vote for your representatives to The Cuban National Assembly.

In a one Political Party state.

Cuba, where your President is Fidel for life.

I wont segregate the polls by regions this time, how about that, should I have?
What is your fixation on Castro? Anyway, I would not live there. I already get free healthcare and education, and I hear that it's a nightmare to get weed there.

Yes, I would move there, and am actively looking for a way to do so. I may complete a year or more of my Law degree in Cuba.
Seriously? Is Canada not better?

Yes, I would move there, and am actively looking for a way to do so. I may complete a year or more of my Law degree in Cuba.

I'd wait. Castro is going to be dead in about 2 years, and then you can move to a free Cuba. If you want to move to Latin America, I'd go to...say, Panama (it's really nice here), or if you're looking for somewhere in the Caribbean, the Dominican Republic or even Puerto Rico (all the infrastructure of the First World combined with all the charm of the Latino people).

DCD: Need I spell it out for you! M-A-T-E-R-I-A-L-I-S-M. You cannot be happy if what matters most to you is driving an SUV to the shooting range.

Sounds like the old "Jesus" argument.