NationStates Jolt Archive

Convince me that I should listen to a genre of your choice. And I want proper arguments based on the music, not just 'Rap sucks! LOL!!1!!1!!'

What genre do you listen to?

Listen to Bob Dylan he's pretty much a genre within himself. He influenced a number of artists and bands and he survived the dreaded 70's and 80's. He also does what he wants with his music. He started off folk, then went to rock, then to country-rock, then to country, then back to rock, then to Christian rock, then back to rock/folk/country mixture.

You do listen to my genre.

I listen to:

Heavy metal
Alternative
Adult Contemporary
Country
Classical
Opera
Rap (Sparingly, most of it sucks).
Top 40 tripe.

The only music I don't listen to is Christian and folk music, and some of the titles in my playlist could be counted as Christian.

Listen to "Let's Talk about Spaceships" by "Say Hi to Your Mom", because I enjoy it.

Actually, it's not that good. Ignore it.

You like a lot of the stuff I do anyway, so eh.

...meh, ok. You should look into stoner rock because it is good.

You like a lot of the stuff I do anyway, so eh.

...meh, ok. You should look into stoner rock because it is good.

Yeah I agree they even have the best names.

Alabama Thunder Pussy
High On Fire
Zeke
Fu Manchu
Orange Goblin
Nebula
Monster Magnet
Queens Of The Stone Age(although some would say they are not)

To name a few.

If you want to dance, listen to a bass-heavy RnB song. I'm currently listening to a sexy remix of Don't Cha by the Pussycat Dolls. It's hardly high class, but if it comes on in a club, you WILL dance to it. I promise.

You should listen to chillout-dance music, because it's incredibly relaxing, and will help you to get in the right mindset to do your work. It's also really good as "wind-down" music at parties and other events, and also makes you appear like you have really good taste.

Acts : Massive Attack, Portishead, Interstellar and some of Kelley Polar's stuff for starters.

If you want to listen to something really good, listen to Dream Theater. You may have to listen once or twice but when you get the music it doesn´t get any better.

If you want to listen to something really good, listen to Dream Theater. You may have to listen once or twice but when you get the music it doesn´t get any better.

Again I agree or even listen to Tool!

umm You may be getting the impresion that I'm a rocker! Well I am but much much more I assure you.

I suggest classical music. It simply is more complex and demanding than other genres. Try making sense of the score of Beethoven's 9th symphony, all 200 or so pages of it. Or better yet, listen to it and tell me that it isn't far more moving than any silly pop tune you've listened to so far.

Yeah I agree they even have the best names.

Alabama Thunder Pussy
High On Fire
Zeke
Fu Manchu
Orange Goblin
Nebula
Monster Magnet
Queens Of The Stone Age(although some would say they are not)

To name a few.

Poo on you for leaving out Kyuss. :p

But yay for knowing what i'm talking about. *gives cookie*

(and add The Atomic Bitchwax to the list of cool names) :D

I suggest classical music. It simply is more complex and demanding than other genres. Try making sense of the score of Beethoven's 9th symphony, all 200 or so pages of it. Or better yet, listen to it and tell me that it isn't far more moving than any silly pop tune you've listened to so far.
Pfffft. Musical elitism destroys creativity.

If you want to dance, listen to a bass-heavy RnB song. I'm currently listening to a sexy remix of Don't Cha by the Pussycat Dolls. It's hardly high class, but if it comes on in a club, you WILL dance to it. I promise.

No, if you want to dance then listen to Drum and Bass stuff. Some if it's incredibly good, and although a lot of Drum and Bass is very samey, with old film quotes or whatever, there are some genuine gems out there.

Drum and Bass acts of note : Pendulum and some of Prodigy's stuff.

This may vary in style, but this is some bands that are really nice.

Rammstein
Dream Theater
Pain Of Salvation
Placebo
Millencolin

Try some accordion music
http://www.thosedarnaccordions.com/music.htm
nothing else will ever sound good again.

If you want to listen to something really good, listen to Dream Theater. You may have to listen once or twice but when you get the music it doesn´t get any better.

Yeah, you're right. The more I listen to Dream Theater, the more I realise it isn't going to become good any time soon. :p

Pfffft. Musical elitism destroys creativity.

Meh, let him have his cake and eat it too. I don't like that flavour, so he's welcome to it.

No, if you want to dance then listen to Drum and Bass stuff. Some if it's incredibly good, and although a lot of Drum and Bass is very samey, with old film quotes or whatever, there are some genuine gems out there.

Drum and Bass acts of note : Pendulum and some of Prodigy's stuff.

I must not go to the same kind of clubs as you then. :D RnB = dirty dancing, aka grinding. I've not idea how you'd dance to something with the high tempos of drum and bass without resorting to BIG BOX, LITTLE BOX.

Pfffft. Musical elitism destroys creativity.
"An intellectual snob is some one who can listen to the William Tell overture and not think of the Lone Ranger." - Dan Rather

Yeah, you're right. The more I listen to Dream Theater, the more I realise it isn't going to become good any time soon. :p

Thats why you have to listen a couple of times, this is really advanced and great music!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4_4abCWw-w&search=jos%C3%A9%20gonzalez

I suggest classical music. It simply is more complex and demanding than other genres.

ORly?

We've dissagreed over this before, but I assure you that most classical music was not as difficult as it's cult of personality would have you think.

(I still wouldn't want to have to play a concert that contained more than one peice of the calibur of Brams' 'Variations on a Theme by Haydn', but I wouldn't want to play a concert with more than one peice of the calibur of 'Tom Sawyer' by Rush either)

In response to Fass:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYq3kXUX1Q8&search=ukelele

I want to eat this guys fingers. (Provided doing so will allow me to absorb his skillz.)

Pfffft. Musical elitism destroys creativity.

Musical incompetence destroys quality. Power chords and drum machines do not make good music. If that qualifies as élitism, then so does the institution of medical care, carpentry, and anything else that requires special skill to do properly.

"An intellectual snob is some one who can listen to the William Tell overture and not think of the Lone Ranger." - Dan Rather

I guess that makes me a snob then.

Thats why you have to listen a couple of times, this is really advanced and great music!!!

It's also boring and I hate his voice.

Their instrumental stuff is okay, I suppose.

Musical incompetence destroys quality. Power chords and drum machines do not make good music. If that qualifies as élitism, then so does the institution of medical care, carpentry, and anything else that requires special skill to do properly.

And all non-classical music has drum machines and power chords since when?

I must not go to the same kind of clubs as you then. :D RnB = dirty dancing, aka grinding. I've not idea how you'd dance to something with the high tempos of drum and bass without resorting to BIG BOX, LITTLE BOX.

The Robot is the kind of all dances.

Poo on you for leaving out Kyuss. :p

But yay for knowing what i'm talking about. *gives cookie*

(and add The Atomic Bitchwax to the list of cool names) :D

Damn! Yeah I forgot them.

In response to Fass:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYq3kXUX1Q8&search=ukelele

I want to eat this guys fingers. (Provided doing so will allow me to absorb his skillz.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4L-XZvidmU&search=the%20knife

I have to respond with the original version of Heartbeats. The Knife are an excellent electronic band.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c66Jnkkozkk&search=the%20knife

I love this song of theirs.

"An intellectual snob is some one who can listen to the William Tell overture and not think of the Lone Ranger." - Dan Rather


Hahahhahhhahahh shit! Cheers man you just made my day.

Heheh or should I say day dada day dada day dum dum?

Musical incompetence destroys quality. Power chords and drum machines do not make good music. If that qualifies as élitism, then so does the institution of medical care, carpentry, and anything else that requires special skill to do properly.



I guess that makes me a snob then.


Music is any processed sound which inspires, invokes emotion or otherwise moves a listener. Classical often does this. But you cannot legitimately say that John Lennon's "Imagine" or Queen's "Bohemian Rhapsody", Led Zeppelin's "Stairway to Heaven" or even Aphex Twin's "Windowlicker" do not inspire, invoke emotion or move the listener.

Even songs with power chords and drum machines can do this.

Music is any processed sound which inspires, invokes emotion or otherwise moves a listener. Classical often does this. But you cannot legitimately say that John Lennon's "Imagine" or Queen's "Bohemian Rhapsody", Led Zeppelin's "Stairway to Heaven" or even Aphex Twin's "Windowlicker" do not inspire, invoke emotion or move the listener.

Even songs with power chords and drum machines can do this.

But it's all so fake. John Lennon, for example, was a millionaire who only pretended to be a socialist and couldn't even read music. When I listen to those songs, I just hear the modern culture industry's attempt to make as much profit as possible for the lowest input.

I listen to just about every genre of music you can think of. Yes, this includes rap. Songs like Riding Spinnaz or whatever by 3 6 mafia gives me a good, jovial, heartly laugh when i'm feeling down :D

But yeah, Pink Floyd, Midnless Self Indulgence, Anti-Flag, and The Clash are all bands i've been listening to lately. I could give two fucks if they are influential, o rthat kind of bullshit. The poitn is: they sound good!

But it's all so fake. John Lennon, for example, was a millionaire who only pretended to be a socialist and couldn't even read music. When I listen to those songs, I just hear the modern culture industry's attempt to make as much profit as possible for the lowest input.

Just because John Lennon was a champagne drinking hypocrite doesn't mean that all modern music is geared totally for profit...

But it's all so fake. John Lennon, for example, was a millionaire who only pretended to be a socialist and couldn't even read music. When I listen to those songs, I just hear the modern culture industry's attempt to make as much profit as possible for the lowest input.
Then you are not listening.

TooL and APC.


Not a genre, but I can't really classify them into any other genre. WMP insists they're "rock" and "pop-rock", but I hate WMP with a passion so its definition doesn't count.

But it's all so fake. John Lennon, for example, was a millionaire who only pretended to be a socialist and couldn't even read music. When I listen to those songs, I just hear the modern culture industry's attempt to make as much profit as possible for the lowest input.

What do you think of bands such as Public Enemy?

They used drum machines and *is shocked* were even a hip-hop act. But their music is intellectual stuff.

What do you think of System of a Down?

Yeah, the metal-kiddies get off to their power chords, but anyone who listens to the music will know that it's about the current problems facing the USA and the world at large (mainly).

The Specials (A.K.A)?

A ska band of the 70's and 80's. Not high-brow stuff, but their music was fairly intelligent stuff, which touched on topics about the overpopulation of the planet, the stereotypes of the young and one of their songs was even a request that Nelson Mandella be freed.

The Streets are their spiritual successors. Yeah, some of their music is just commercial rubbish, but The Streets too touch on issues in society and even in showbusiness.

There's a lot of crap out there, but open your eyes to the other stuff and you'll find challenging and interesting music, it just doesn't conform to your stereotypes.

TooL and APC.


Not a genre, but I can't really classify them into any other genre. WMP insists they're "rock" and "pop-rock", but I hate WMP with a passion so its definition doesn't count.
I'd call it "progressive metal", bordering on rock.

i suggest nat king cole and frank sinatras "greatest hits" is a good place to start.

great songs by great singers who have stood the test of time. what more could you ask for?

But it's all so fake. John Lennon, for example, was a millionaire who only pretended to be a socialist and couldn't even read music. When I listen to those songs, I just hear the modern culture industry's attempt to make as much profit as possible for the lowest input.

This is very true, but music is art and as such the merits or othwise are highly subjective. Fine if you don't like mordert music, and fine if you don't like the way in which the music industry is run(I agree on that score) but all music apart from clasical being 'all so fake' I'm afraid I cannot agree with.

Music as I have said is art so realy there is no wrong nor right about it, and also like language is an ever evoulving thing.

To say that language should not change, is just ludicrus and simaly to say that music also should not change is just plain silly. Things change and it is natural that they do so.

When I listen to those songs, I just hear the modern culture industry's attempt to make as much profit as possible for the lowest input.

Holy FUCK! *shakes head* Just... Wow. :eek:

Dare I suggest a lobotomy? This has got to be the most demented thing I have read in my (admittedly short) time here. Really if you THAT serious about your disdain for modern culture, how the hell do you live in said culture?

Holy FUCK! *shakes head* Just... Wow. :eek:

Dare I suggest a lobotomy? This has got to be the most demented thing I have read in my (admittedly short) time here. Really if you THAT serious about your disdain for modern culture, how the hell do you live in said culture?
Well, with regard to quite a few examples, he's right. To write off all modern music as the same is a bit silly, though.

I suggest classical music. It simply is more complex and demanding than other genres. Try making sense of the score of Beethoven's 9th symphony, all 200 or so pages of it. Or better yet, listen to it and tell me that it isn't far more moving than any silly pop tune you've listened to so far.
Music has progressed a lot since Beethoven. For example, the progressive rock started during the 70s. Many were influenced by classical music. Good examples:

Dream Theater
Genesis (with Peter Gabriel) (very opera-ish)
King Crimson (influenced by Bela Bartok - and you can tell)
Pink Floyd
Rush
Yes (much of their music is probably MORE complex than most classical music)

And the krautrock/post-rock/soundscape stuff I've been listening to lately:
Can, Explosions in the Sky, Godspeed You! Black Emperor, Kraftwerk, Tangerine Dream, Vangelis

Some of these may have already been mentioned but I'll put in quite a good variety:

For all the basic metal needs:
Metallica
Pantera
Slayer
Exodus
Megadeth

For all the progressive needs:
Dream Theater
Kamelot
Angra
Genesis
Opeth
Pink Floyd

For all the Classic Metal needs:
Iron Maiden
Judas Priest
Black Sabbath

For all the death/black metal needs:
Cradle of Filth
Graveworm

For all the regular rock needs:
Shinedown
Crossfade
Flaw
Thornley
Seether
Breaking Benjamin

For all the classic Rock needs:
Led Zeppelin
Rush(also progressive)
Eric Clapton
Jimi Hendrix

for all the southern rock needs:
Lynyrd Skynyrd
Blackfoot

Rap:
Eminem
Insane Clown Posse

Country:
Toby Keith

and for all the rest:
Beethoven(classical)
Utada Hikaru (j-Pop)
Nobuo Uematsu (Video game music)
Killswitch engage (Metal)
Tristania (Metal)
Theatre of Tragedy (Metal/Goth)
Slash's Snakepit (Rock)
John Petrucci (Instrumental Progressive rock/metal)
Steve Vai (Instrumental rock)

Well, with regard to quite a few examples, he's right. To write off all modern music as the same is a bit silly, though.
its not like classical music wasnt written for money too. those guys were the rock stars of their time.

Well, with regard to quite a few examples, he's right. To write off all modern music as the same is a bit silly, though.

That's not even the point though, I'll be the first to admit that there is a lot of pure, unadulterated shit being produced today that is being called music. Regardless of that, how can someone listen to (good) music that invokes some sort of emotion in others, and feel nothing but contempt for culture in general? If it's greed that bothers him, then that is everywhere, utterly all-pervasive in modern society and certainly not limited to music.

It just strikes me that if something like music makes him feel that way, then living, breathing, and sustaining oneself in that society must be a real mind fuck.

Dare I suggest a lobotomy? This has got to be the most demented thing I have read in my (admittedly short) time here. Really if you THAT serious about your disdain for modern culture, how the hell do you live in said culture?

It's tough, but I have earplugs and I know how to use them. I also don't listen to the radio or television much.

Music as I have said is art so realy there is no wrong nor right about it, and also like language is an ever evoulving thing.

To say that language should not change, is just ludicrus and simaly to say that music also should not change is just plain silly. Things change and it is natural that they do so.

I'm not denying that. Change brought classical music from religious chants to 18 hour opera cycles with full symphonic orchestras, after all. Change is no excuse for eschewing real drummers and replacing harmony with simplistic rhythmic riffs.

Oh well, sometimes its necessary to be offensive in order to get your point across.

I'm not denying that. Change brought classical music from religious chants to 18 hour opera cycles with full symphonic orchestras, after all. Change is no excuse for eschewing real drummers and replacing harmony with simplistic rhythmic riffs.

Oh well, sometimes its necessary to be offensive in order to get your point across.

You seriously need to check out Rush.

For all the basic metal needs:
Metallica
Pantera
Slayer
Exodus
Megadeth

Mostly meh, except for Pantera. And Slayer, maybe.

For all the progressive needs:
Dream Theater
Kamelot
Angra
Genesis
Opeth
Pink Floyd

Meh. I don't know Angra and Genesis though.

(edit: whoops, you recommended rush later)

For all the Classic Metal needs:
Iron Maiden
Judas Priest
Black Sabbath

Yay!

For all the death/black metal needs:
Cradle of Filth
Graveworm

Hmmm...nah.

For all the regular rock needs:
Shinedown
Crossfade
Flaw
Thornley
Seether
Breaking Benjamin

I only know the last two, who are ok-ish, but there's so many better bands I could put there.

Maybe replace with:

Nirvana
Soundgarden
Smashing Pumpkins
Sonic Youth
Faith No More
(early) Weezer
Mudhoney
Rage Against the Machine

...and a lot more, but that'll do

For all the classic Rock needs:
Led Zeppelin
Rush(also progressive)
Eric Clapton
Jimi Hendrix

Yay!

+ The Doors, Velvet Underground and the Kinks

for all the southern rock needs:
Lynyrd Skynyrd
Blackfoot

Ugh.
Rap:
Eminem
Insane Clown Posse

.....

You did not just recommend ICP.

Replace with Public Enemy, NWA and Corporate Avenger.

Country:
Toby Keith

....

and for all the rest:
Beethoven(classical)
Utada Hikaru (j-Pop)
Nobuo Uematsu (Video game music)
Killswitch engage (Metal)
Tristania (Metal)
Theatre of Tragedy (Metal/Goth)
Slash's Snakepit (Rock)
John Petrucci (Instrumental Progressive rock/metal)
Steve Vai (Instrumental rock)

Meh.

You seriously need to check out Rush.

I have heard good things about them, but I'm talking about what is typical of popular music, not what pops up occasionally. I mean Britney Spears, 50 cent, and so forth.

Convince me that I should listen to a genre of your choice. And I want proper arguments based on the music, not just 'Rap sucks! LOL!!1!!1!!'

I won't do genre's, but i'll do five albums from each decade:-
60s
Sketches of Spain - Miles Davis
Forever Changes - Love
Piper at the gates of dawn - Pink Floyd
Ogdens Nut Gone Flake - The Small Faces
My Favourite Things - John Coltrane
70s
Horses - Patti Smith
Hunky Dory - David Bowie
Songs in the Key of Life - Stevie Wonder
Pink Moon - Nick Drake
Suicide - Suicide
80s
Rattlesnakes - Lloyd Cole
Purple Rain - Prince
It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back - Public Enemy
The Correct Use of Soap - Magazine
Doolittle - The Pixies
90s
Oedipus Schmoedipus - Barry Adamson
Ladies and Gentlemen we are floating in Space - Spiritualized
Jehovahkill - Julian Cope
Giant Steps - The Boo Radleys
Exile on Coldharbour Lane - Alabama 3
"Noughties"
Lift Yr Skinny Fists Like Antenna to heaven - Godspeed! You Black Emperor
The Decline and Fall of British Sea Power - British Sea Power
Come Get it, I got it - David Holmes Feat The Free Association
LoveKraft - Super Furry Animals
Since I Left You - The Avalanches

I'm not going to argue over them, i'm not going to claim they were the best albums released that decade, or even my favourites. I'll just say "they are fine albums", and i feel like listening to every one of them this weekend.

I have heard good things about them, but I'm talking about what is typical of popular music, not what pops up occasionally. I mean Britney Spears, 50 cent, and so forth.

Yeah, I know, but still.

And no intelligent person likes that Pop trash, you know. ;)

You like a lot of the stuff I do anyway, so eh.

...meh, ok. You should look into stoner rock because it is good.
Not the kind of argument I was looking for, but seeing as our music tastes overlap so much anyway, I probably should get round to looking into it...:)

If you want to dance, listen to a bass-heavy RnB song. I'm currently listening to a sexy remix of Don't Cha by the Pussycat Dolls. It's hardly high class, but if it comes on in a club, you WILL dance to it. I promise.
If I want to dance I'll listen to EBM, IDM, or DnB. Oh, I love acronyms.

its not like classical music wasnt written for money too. those guys were the rock stars of their time.

Exactly, I agree.

And to make it worse, the people who wrote classical music were in all likelihood very wealthy to begin with, having access to a priveliged education, etc.


I have heard good things about them, but I'm talking about what is typical of popular music, not what pops up occasionally. I mean Britney Spears, 50 cent, and so forth.

Oh, but people who consider music as their major interest pretty much write those off as not music anyway. :p

Not the kind of argument I was looking for, but seeing as our music tastes overlap so much anyway, I probably should get round to looking into it...:)

Yes, you should. :D

www.stonerrock.com

They have a jukebox thingy.

If you want to listen to something really good, listen to Dream Theater. You may have to listen once or twice but when you get the music it doesn´t get any better.
Already do. I like them, but there's better.

Again I agree or even listen to Tool!
To you and everyone else who reccommended Tool (and whoever reccommended A Perfect Circle) - you have my respect when it comes to musical matters. Too many people don't like Maynard Keenan, and those people should be shot, or have major surgery performed on their ears.

Yes, you should. :D

www.stonerrock.com

They have a jukebox thingy.
Heh. Now that's convenience. I love teh interweb.

I have heard good things about them, but I'm talking about what is typical of popular music, not what pops up occasionally. I mean Britney Spears, 50 cent, and so forth.
I agree with you (although there is one song by each of those artists that I like). I rarely listen to popular music stations any more, and I regret this (when someone introduces me to a band I feel I should already have known about) maybe once or twice a year. Yeah. It sucks.

I suggest classical music. It simply is more complex and demanding than other genres. Try making sense of the score of Beethoven's 9th symphony, all 200 or so pages of it. Or better yet, listen to it and tell me that it isn't far more moving than any silly pop tune you've listened to so far.
Indeed. My girlfriend's been trying for a few months now to get me into classical, and I'm working through the free samples on wikipedia.

No, if you want to dance then listen to Drum and Bass stuff. Some if it's incredibly good, and although a lot of Drum and Bass is very samey, with old film quotes or whatever, there are some genuine gems out there.

Drum and Bass acts of note : Pendulum and some of Prodigy's stuff.
Already listen to and like Pendulum and the Prodigy. Hold Your Colour is one of the best albums I've heard in quite some time. Well...top 25 at least...

Heh. Now that's convenience. I love teh interweb.

Heheheh.

Although they're reduced quality, and their Kyuss selection isn't that good. Well, of course, it's good by virtue of being Kyuss, but not that good. If you know what I mean.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4_4abCWw-w&search=jos%C3%A9%20gonzalez
Mmmm...thanks. I love that song. It's on that advert with the bouncing balls, isn't it?

I have heard good things about them, but I'm talking about what is typical of popular music, not what pops up occasionally. I mean Britney Spears, 50 cent, and so forth.

I'm actually rather pleased to see interest in these types of bands waning, hopefully they will soon re relegated to the trash heap of history in a few years.

Honestly though, Britney Spears and 50 cent are absolutely not what you would call adequate representatives of music, not even modern music. They suck, they always have sucked, but that doesn't that there aren't any good bands out there. It isn't all synthesizers, drum machines, power cords, and shitty vocals mate. There is a lot of real talent out there and there is no reason to ignore it... or let the trash over shadow it.

You seriously need to check out Rush.

This man knows what he is talking about.

I have heard good things about them, but I'm talking about what is typical of popular music, not what pops up occasionally. I mean Britney Spears, 50 cent, and so forth.

See, thats the problem with the lumping together of music as "pop" - you can't put in the same stratosphere the shimmering, timeless (because of it's very disposability) modern pop classic that is Britney's "Toxic" in the same league as Fiddy Pence's very very bad R'n'B with very lazy rapping over the top.

To you and everyone else who reccommended Tool (and whoever reccommended A Perfect Circle) - you have my respect when it comes to musical matters. Too many people don't like Maynard Keenan, and those people should be shot, or have major surgery performed on their ears.

He's a good vocalist, but he did turn into a rockstar wanker like Oasis didn't he? Or so i've heard.

TooL and APC.


Not a genre, but I can't really classify them into any other genre. WMP insists they're "rock" and "pop-rock", but I hate WMP with a passion so its definition doesn't count.
Tool are mostly prog-metal. A Perfect Circle have elements of that but clearly have blues-rock influences as well.

This man knows what he is talking about.

That, I do. While I only agree half-way with Neil's Objectivism, said idealogy only pops up in a few of their songs. And even when it does, it's not the dickheaded Randroidism one would expect.

After all, I did buy four of their LP's for my birthday.

I love this video to Kent's Kärleken Väntar. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_MMe1gu6dM&search=k%C3%A4rleken%20v%C3%A4ntar) It's themed on a girl and a boy having sex for the first time. Safe for work, of course.

TooL and APC.


Not a genre, but I can't really classify them into any other genre. WMP insists they're "rock" and "pop-rock", but I hate WMP with a passion so its definition doesn't count.


Never heard of APC, but I would put Tool firmly in the Prog Rock genre meself.

This has made me very happy, knowing that other intelligent people listen to progressive rock. The highlight of my week. My faith in humanity has been restored (or, my faith in the NationStates community, at least).

That, I do. While I only agree half-way with Neil's Objectivism, said idealogy only pops up in a few of their songs. And even when it does, it's not the dickheaded Randroidism one would expect.

After all, I did buy four of their LP's for my birthday.

Generally speaking, I try to ignore most ideological baggage when it comes to music; makes good music easier to enjoy if you aren't to stuck up on it. But yeah, you're right, Objectivism only comes up a rare few times and it's easy to overlook.

Very good band though, excellent example in this case.

Never heard of APC, but I would put Tool firmly in the Prog Rock genre meself.

APC= A Perfect Circle

And the krautrock/post-rock/soundscape stuff I've been listening to lately:
Explosions in the Sky, Godspeed You! Black Emperor, Kraftwerk, Tangerine Dream
Now that's good taste (especially Tangerine Dream). You should try 65daysofstatic and Secret Machines.


For all the basic metal needs:
Metallica
Pantera
Slayer
Exodus
Megadeth
In order: No/There are better/Already like/don't know enough/meh.

For all the progressive needs:
Dream Theater
Kamelot
Angra
Genesis
Opeth
Pink Floyd
Again in order: Good/don't know enough/don't know/you'd better mean before Peter Gabriel left/Sweet/one of the best bands ever.

For all the Classic Metal needs:
Iron Maiden
Judas Priest
Black Sabbath
Yep/Nope/only just getting into (thanks Kanabia!)

For all the death/black metal needs:
Cradle of Filth
Graveworm
I know the keys player in the Filth...
You missed plenty of good bands from this genre. Nile? Death? Napalm Death? Cannibal Corpse?

For all the regular rock needs:
Shinedown
Crossfade
Flaw
Thornley
Seether
Breaking Benjamin
I clearly don't like 'regular rock'. I find them all rather dull.

For all the classic Rock needs:
Led Zeppelin
Rush(also progressive)
Eric Clapton
Jimi Hendrix
All fantastic.

for all the southern rock needs:
Lynyrd Skynyrd
Blackfoot
Nah, don't like either of them.

Rap:
Eminem
Insane Clown Posse
My disbelief mirrors Kanabia's...

Country:
Toby Keith
I'll try it...

I love this video to Kent's Kärleken Väntar. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_MMe1gu6dM&search=k%C3%A4rleken%20v%C3%A4ntar) It's themed on a girl and a boy having sex for the first time. Safe for work, of course.

lol - I had another MP3 open when I opened that up, and they were playing at the same time. Oddly, it seemed to fit...although the music types aren't exactly the same. :p

Generally speaking, I try to ignore most ideological baggage when it comes to music; makes good music easier to enjoy if you aren't to stuck up on it. But yeah, you're right, Objectivism only comes up a rare few times and it's easy to overlook.

Very good band though, excellent example in this case.

Yeah, same here.

Rush have it all, really. Great guitarwork, unsurpassed basslines, incredible percussion, and synthesizers that are actually enjoyable. And who could hate Geddy's vocals? Stupid people, that's who.

Yeah, same here.

Rush have it all, really. Great guitarwork, unsurpassed basslines, incredible percussion, and synthesizers that are actually enjoyable. And who could hate Geddy's vocals? Stupid people, that's who.

"What about the voice of Geddy Lee?
However did it get so high?
I wonder if he speaks like an ordinary guy?"
"I know him, and he does"
"well, thanks, you're my fact-checking cuz"

Shiny new penny for whoever identifies the lyric.

I'm not denying that. Change brought classical music from religious chants to 18 hour opera cycles with full symphonic orchestras, after all. Change is no excuse for eschewing real drummers and replacing harmony with simplistic rhythmic riffs.

Oh well, sometimes its necessary to be offensive in order to get your point across.

Hahhah yeah I make you right, at least on the offensive bit. But are you then saying the problem with morden music(or some of it) is that you don't like to see musicians replaced by machines?

-snip-
I have at least two albums that you've listed for each decade...except for the 90s. Where I have none. Your music taste went out the window for a decade, did it? :p Actually, Spiritualized are ok, but I would never be bothered enough to get any albums of theirs.

And you missed Led Zep from the 70s. I know you said they're not necessarily a reflection of your taste, and they're not the 'best' albums from each decade...but you missed out Led Zep. :confused:

"What about the voice of Geddy Lee?
However did it get so high?
I wonder if he speaks like an ordinary guy?"
"I know him, and he does"
"well, thanks, you're my fact-checking cuz"

Shiny new penny for whoever identifies the lyric.

Pavement - Stereo


mmmgoogle.

Pavement - Stereo


mmmgoogle.

Have a shiny penny. And enjoy it!

Convince me that I should listen to a genre of your choice. And I want proper arguments based on the music, not just 'Rap sucks!

This argument is probably based more on your mood/state-of-mind at the time of your selection then on the actual music itself but, in any case, here it goes!

If I'm aggravated, pissed off, and fueled by hatred:
Black, Death, Speed, & Thrash Metal
Pantera, Exhorder, Deicide, Cradle of Filth, etc...

On a "picture perfect" Sunday:
70's Rock/R&B
Marvin Gaye, The Commodores, The Eagles & Boston

Mild-mannered, even-tempered days of reflection:
80's Best & Love Songs
Air Supply, Chicago, Bon Jovi, Cinderella, Duran Duran, etc...

If I just wanna' relax/unwind:
New Age/Soundscapes
Native American Pan Flute, Oriental Bamboo Flute, Cosmic Effects, etc...

If I'm going for the sophisticated/intellectual edge:
Classical/Big Band/Jazz

If I'm feeling bleak, dark, dismal, & depressed:
My Dying Bride, Acid Bath, Pink Floyd

Hope that makes some sorta' sense!

I'm not denying that. Change brought classical music from religious chants to 18 hour opera cycles with full symphonic orchestras, after all. Change is no excuse for eschewing real drummers and replacing harmony with simplistic rhythmic riffs.
I don't know...some of the most beautiful music I have is done entirely with synths, drum machines, and samples. Right now I'm listening to VNV Nation. I'd advise you to listen to Advance and Follow (v2), especially Fiume and Amhran Comhrac.

only just getting into (thanks Kanabia!)

*tips hat*


You missed plenty of good bands from this genre. Nile? Death? Napalm Death? Cannibal Corpse?


Hmm, I like all of those from what i've heard, but I don't really know any of them that well.

Oh, and SEPULTURAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH!!!

*ahem*

I have at least two albums that you've listed for each decade...except for the 90s. Where I have none. Your music taste went out the window for a decade, did it? :p Actually, Spiritualized are ok, but I would never be bothered enough to get any albums of theirs.

And you missed Led Zep from the 70s. I know you said they're not necessarily a reflection of your taste, and they're not the 'best' albums from each decade...but you missed out Led Zep. :confused:

Sorry, but i've always despised Led Zep, Jimmy Page has done some good stuff - particularly his work with Roy Harper - but memories of my teenage years being forced to listen to them by a hairy elder brother....*shudders*

As for the 90s, i picked a few little more obscure albums (the Cope one was my bible for 94, when everyone else was wanking on about "In Utero", i'd already leapt off the bandwagon, bored of the angsty wangstyness)

And Spiritualized
(a) Have to be seen live in concert to be truly experienced and
(b) Ladies and Gentlemen is the perfect, utter summation of their career. It's a whole, it's not "single here, single there", either you take it in in one sitting, or don't bother.

What albums do you have from each decade?

This argument is probably based more on your mood/state-of-mind at the time of your selection then on the actual music itself but, in any case, here it goes!

If I'm aggravated, pissed off, and fueled by hatred:
Black, Death, Speed, & Thrash Metal
Pantera, Exhorder, Deicide, Cradle of Filth, etc...

On a "picture perfect" Sunday:
70's Rock/R&B
Marvin Gaye, The Commodores, The Eagles & Boston

Mild-mannered, even-tempered days of reflection:
80's Best & Love Songs
Air Supply, Chicago, Bon Jovi, Cinderella, Duran Duran, etc...

If I just wanna' relax/unwind:
New Age/Soundscapes
Native American Pan Flute, Oriental Bamboo Flute, Cosmic Effects, etc...

If I'm going for the sophisticated/intellectual edge:
Classical/Big Band/Jazz

If I'm feeling bleak, dark, dismal, & depressed:
My Dying Bride, Acid Bath, Pink Floyd

Hope that makes some sorta' sense!
Interesting. I know very very few people who choose the music they listen to depending on their mood. I just scan through my collection and pick out whatever I fancy.

I have heard good things about them, but I'm talking about what is typical of popular music, not what pops up occasionally. I mean Britney Spears, 50 cent, and so forth.

Ahhh mainstream pop music. Then I'm in full agreement with you. Rock, rap, reggea, blues, ska, swing(not mordern), clasical, in fact anything I'll listen to, umm I'll even give mainstream pop a go, but there isn't much of it that I like.

60s
Sketches of Spain - Miles Davis
Piper at the gates of dawn - Pink Floyd
My Favourite Things - John Coltrane

70s
Horses - Patti Smith
Hunky Dory - David Bowie
Suicide - Suicide

80s
It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back - Public Enemy
Doolittle - The Pixies

90s
;)

"Noughties"
Lift Yr Skinny Fists Like Antenna to heaven - Godspeed! You Black Emperor
The Decline and Fall of British Sea Power - British Sea Power
Since I Left You - The Avalanches

Though I'm not really sure where my Avalanches CD is right now...

60s
Sketches of Spain - Miles Davis
Piper at the gates of dawn - Pink Floyd
My Favourite Things - John Coltrane

70s
Horses - Patti Smith
Hunky Dory - David Bowie
Suicide - Suicide

80s
It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back - Public Enemy
Doolittle - The Pixies

90s
;)

"Noughties"
Lift Yr Skinny Fists Like Antenna to heaven - Godspeed! You Black Emperor
The Decline and Fall of British Sea Power - British Sea Power
Since I Left You - The Avalanches

Though I'm not really sure where my Avalanches CD is right now...

Well, thats a nice selection of albums you have there. Everyone should own "Songs in the Key of Life" though, everyone.

And my god, i missed off "Astral Weeks", christ, i need tarring and feathering sometimes.

And Spiritualized
I heard Out of Sight by them on V for Vendetta. It's cool stuff.

For Letalia's amusement, I grabbed a few peices of classical music and made some comparisons to show why it isn't so much better.

1. While many scores have 20 or so parts, most of the time the same rhythm is used in most of the parts to establish chords. In fact, the rhythms underneath the melody are fairly standard (No more than are present in the broad variation of pop crap)

2. Why must those composers only use power chords? I mean honestly, you'd think that they would use something other than 1-3-5-8 with the occasional suspention or interjection of a minor chord to fit their key. :rolleyes: (moral of the story: A barre chord, which is the basis of a power chord, is the same as any other chord in classical music. You'd be shocked to discover that most stringed instruments can play the same pattern on different parts of the instrument to get different chords, I'm sure.)

3. Classical composers were normally servants to the richer nobles and had quite a bit of money themselves. Many of the classical era produced more music on their own than any crappy pop act. Just look at Handel (or Haydn... One of the two), who produced on the order of 100 (I think) symphonies (it was something like that), or at all the Bach Cantatas.

4. Even the crappiest of modern pop artists have influence from the more rhythmic patterns of blues, jazz, and the older afro-cuban rhythm set. Broad use of syncopation isn't really seen until after classical has bitten the bullet. Syncopation is just harder for musicians to do.

Have a shiny penny. And enjoy it!

*sticks it to his forehead*

I heard Out of Sight by them on V for Vendetta. It's cool stuff.

I think the end track of "Ladies and Gentlemen", "Cop Shoot Cop", a 13 minute wall of song which collapses into feedback and the ghostly guest piano of New Orleans finest, Dr John, is one of my favourite tracks of all time.

Shit that needs listenin':

Bauhaus, In The Flat Fields
Belle & Sebastian, The Boy with The Arab Strap
Brian Wilson, SMiLE
David Bowie, Diamond Dogs
Franz Ferdinand, You Could Have It So Much Better
Iggy & The Stooges, Raw Power
Jethro Tull, Aqualung
Joy Division, Unknown Pleasures
Kanye West, Late Registration
Patti Smith, Horses
Pink Floyd, The Wall
The Pixies, Surfer Rosa
The Polyphonic Spree, Together We're Heavy
Queen, A Night At The Opera
Queens Of The Stone Age, Songs For The Deaf
The Ramones, The Ramones
Sonic Youth, Daydream Nation
Sly & The Family Stone, There's A Riot Goin' On
Stevie Wonder, Innervisions
Talking Heads, Remain In Light
The Velvet Underground, The Velvet Underground & Nico

And that is a pretty good start.
Just some stuff I'm thoroughly enjoying right now.

*sticks it to his forehead*

Pavement had the best lyrics ever, fact.

"Out on tour with the Smashing Pumpkins
Natures Kids, they don't really function
I don't understand what they are singing about
and i really couldn't give a fuck
The Stone Temple Pilots are elegant bachelors
are they foxy for you? They are foxy for me"

Stands out, but the real winner is:-
"you've been chosen as an extra in the movie adaptation of the sequel to the story of your life"

Shit that needs listenin':

Bauhaus, In The Flat Fields
Belle & Sebastian, The Boy with The Arab Strap
Brian Wilson, SMiLE
David Bowie, Diamond Dogs
Franz Ferdinand, You Could Have It So Much Better
Iggy & The Stooges, Raw Power
Jethro Tull, Aqualung
Joy Division, Unknown Pleasures
Kanye West, Late Registration
Patti Smith, Horses
Pink Floyd, The Wall
The Pixies, Surfer Rosa
Queen, A Night At The Opera
Queens Of The Stone Age, Songs For The Deaf
The Ramones, The Ramones
Sonic Youth, Daydream Nation
Stevie Wonder, Innervisions
The Velvet Underground, The Velvet Underground & Nico

And that is a pretty good start.
Just some stuff I'm thoroughly enjoying right now.

The Ramones and Raw Power without Never Mind The Bollocks, Here's The Sex Pistols is folly. It's unheard of!

Shit that needs listenin':

Bauhaus, In The Flat Fields
Belle & Sebastian, The Boy with The Arab Strap
Brian Wilson, SMiLE
David Bowie, Diamond Dogs
Franz Ferdinand, You Could Have It So Much Better
Iggy & The Stooges, Raw Power
Jethro Tull, Aqualung
Joy Division, Unknown Pleasures
Kanye West, Late Registration
Patti Smith, Horses
Pink Floyd, The Wall
The Pixies, Surfer Rosa
Queen, A Night At The Opera
Queens Of The Stone Age, Songs For The Deaf
The Ramones, The Ramones
Sonic Youth, Daydream Nation
Stevie Wonder, Innervisions
The Velvet Underground, The Velvet Underground & Nico

And that is a pretty good start.
Just some stuff I'm thoroughly enjoying right now.

See, you were doing so well, i was warming to you, i was thinking of inviting you home to smoke my weed and drink my booze, and then you mentioned Queen. WHY?

Oh, and not a huge Brian Wilson fan either, i think his earlier stuff about surfboards, cars and girls is far superior to his "i've gone insane and am writing drippy love songs whilst hiding under my grand piano" period.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4_4abCWw-w&search=jos%C3%A9%20gonzalez
Fass! :fluffle: Whatever happened to your terrible taste in music? Or did you just like all those bouncy balls?

I'll totally get that CD for my birthday. (well, I hope, otherwise I'll just have to buy it myself, meh.)

The Ramones and Raw Power without Never Mind The Bollocks, Here's The Sex Pistols is folly. It's unheard of!

The Sex Pistols should never have released an album, just their first three singles. Then every member bar John Lydon should have been shot.

Shit that needs listenin':

Bauhaus, In The Flat Fields got
Belle & Sebastian, The Boy with The Arab Strap got
Brian Wilson, SMiLE meh
David Bowie, Diamond Dogs got
Franz Ferdinand, You Could Have It So Much Better you are kidding, yes?
Iggy & The Stooges, Raw Power probably should get...
Jethro Tull, Aqualung meh
Joy Division, Unknown Pleasures bloody excellent album
Kanye West, Late Registration meh. I've heard it, and I don't get what's so great about it.
Patti Smith, Horses got
Pink Floyd, The Wall got
The Pixies, Surfer Rosa got
Queen, A Night At The Opera IMHO, Queen were a singles band. I've got greatest hits I and II
Queens Of The Stone Age, Songs For The Deaf got
The Ramones, The Ramones got
Sonic Youth, Daydream Nation got
Stevie Wonder, Innervisions I have some of his stuff...not that, I don't think
The Velvet Underground, The Velvet Underground & Nico it's ok

It's a fairly good start. Could be better, could be worse.

Iggy & The Stooges, Raw Power
Pink Floyd, The Wall
The Pixies, Surfer Rosa
Queens Of The Stone Age, Songs For The Deaf
Sonic Youth, Daydream Nation
The Velvet Underground, The Velvet Underground & Nico


Oooh, I have these ones.

Although I like Rated R a little bit better than Songs for the Deaf and Sister better than Daydream Nation, though not by much.

Oh, and not a huge Brian Wilson fan either, i think his earlier stuff about surfboards, cars and girls is far superior to his "i've gone insane and am writing drippy love songs whilst hiding under my grand piano" period.

I'm going to have to agree with this.

The Sex Pistols should never have released an album, just their first three singles. Then every member bar John Lydon should have been shot.

...Oooookaaaay...

Pfffft. Musical elitism destroys creativity.

True, but also consider, that most modern songs, except possibly electronica, are not that complex, they simply have a nice beat, and a nice voice.

Classical music is complex, almost to an intimidating fault. A complete symphony usually requires 20 times the number of musicians modern music does. Then there is the music itself. There is the beat, there is the rythem, there is the sound itself. There are so many levels to classical, that you have to expand your mind, and listen on many levels, just to hear it all.

I am not saying modern music isn't good, because it is. I enjoy many modern artists, but I also enjoy The complex music of the Classical era.

Electronica, is evolved, modern classical. It too, is complex, and has many parts and rythems. But it only requires less than an orchastra.

Also, some people complain when a seven minute song comes on. Electronica is usually that long, and classical, it takes an hour or more for a complete symphony. Beethoven's 5th was 39 minutes, when all parts were played. I may be wrong, but it definatly was long.

I'm going to have to agree with this.

Although Good Vibrations is one of the best singles ever made, without which we wouldn't have had grunge and all that followed.

(and for those of you who can't see the link it goes - "Louie Louie" The Kingsmen; "Good Vibrations" - The Beach Boys; "Debaser" - The Pixies; "Smells Like Teen Spirit" - Nirvana)

Queen was mostly a singles band, but every song on A Night At The Opera should have been a fucking single. And as for the Sex Pistols, I like Sid Vicious' voice, but Nevermind The Bollocks just doesn't throw me against the wall and scream at me to love it the way say, Raw Power or Horses does.

And you really could have it so much better.
and i might've forgotten Neutral Milk Hotel

"Louie Louie" The Kingsmen

Surely you mean Richard Berry. ;)

And Nirvana wasn't the only grunge band, nor was SLTS their only song. :p

...Oooookaaaay...

Well, that was kinda the point, aesthetically.

and i might've forgotten Neutral Milk Hotel

Oh, that reminds me, i've been meaning to get into them.

Although I like Rated R a little bit better than Songs for the Deaf...

Honestly, I do too, but if you're not sure how much a dude knows about QOTSA, Songs For The Deaf is a good place to start.

Queen was mostly a singles band, but every song on A Night At The Opera should have been a fucking single. And as for the Sex Pistols, I like Sid Vicious' voice, but Nevermind The Bollocks just doesn't throw me against the wall and scream at me to love it the way say, Raw Power or Horses does.

I agree with this on A Night At The Opera. Though it doesn't stand up to any of Rush's epics, it's still a classic.

And yeah, music's subjective. One song or style that blows one person away could bore another to death. And that's John Lydon (Johnny Rotten) singing, not Sid Vicious. Sid really didn't have anything to do with the album itself. :p

1. While many scores have 20 or so parts, most of the time the same rhythm is used in most of the parts to establish chords. In fact, the rhythms underneath the melody are fairly standard (No more than are present in the broad variation of pop crap)

Well yeah, establishing chords is important given that many are quite complex and shared rhythms are one way of doing it. I suggest you look at some of the rhythms used by the later classical composers (like Stravinsky and so on) before you dismiss classical rhythm as simplistic. How many pop bands change time signatures or even use unusual ones?

2. Why must those composers only use power chords? I mean honestly, you'd think that they would use something other than 1-3-5-8 with the occasional suspention or interjection of a minor chord to fit their key. (moral of the story: A barre chord, which is the basis of a power chord, is the same as any other chord in classical music. You'd be shocked to discover that most stringed instruments can play the same pattern on different parts of the instrument to get different chords, I'm sure.)

I suppose you've never heard of diminished chords, 7th chords, or the Tristan chord? What about Neapolitan chords, inverted chords, and so on?

3. Classical composers were normally servants to the richer nobles and had quite a bit of money themselves. Many of the classical era produced more music on their own than any crappy pop act. Just look at Handel (or Haydn... One of the two), who produced on the order of 100 (I think) symphonies (it was something like that), or at all the Bach Cantatas.

So? Are you saying that productivity is a bad thing? When you consider that the average Haydn symphony or Bach cantata was about 20 minutes long and they produced hundreds of them, I'd say that says a lot about their ability.

4. Even the crappiest of modern pop artists have influence from the more rhythmic patterns of blues, jazz, and the older afro-cuban rhythm set. Broad use of syncopation isn't really seen until after classical has bitten the bullet. Syncopation is just harder for musicians to do.

Uh, syncopation exists in classical music. They don't use it a lot, but it's there and I doubt its relative scarcity is connected to difficulty given some of the passages that appear in classical.

True, but also consider, that most modern songs, except possibly electronica, are not that complex, they simply have a nice beat, and a nice voice.

Classical music is complex, almost to an intimidating fault. A complete symphony usually requires 20 times the number of musicians modern music does. Then there is the music itself. There is the beat, there is the rythem, there is the sound itself. There are so many levels to classical, that you have to expand your mind, and listen on many levels, just to hear it all.

*grumbles*

I just addressed this. 20 times the musicians, perhaps, but they're all playing the same thing, practically. Violin sections total 20 or so musicians all playing the same rhythm with at most a divisi to three parts (rarely). It's more a matter of volume and balance than complexity.

Also, some people complain when a seven minute song comes on. Electronica is usually that long, and classical, it takes an hour or more for a complete symphony. Beethoven's 5th was 39 minutes, when all parts were played. I may be wrong, but it definatly was long.

Close to that anyway. Mahler's Titan measures in at over an hour, I beleive. The fifth is (moderately) short and fairly easy compared to other music.

Forgive me for not wanting to slog through yet another music genre thread, but am I the only one so far who thinks the notion of attempting to convince someone to listen to a music genre without the immediate capacity to demonstrate the music (effectively make a presentation) to be at least a little whacked?

Fass! :fluffle: Whatever happened to your terrible taste in music? Or did you just like all those bouncy balls?

I'll totally get that CD for my birthday. (well, I hope, otherwise I'll just have to buy it myself, meh.)

I've liked José Gonzalez for years, even when he was only know in Sweden. Anyway, if you liked that song, you'll like this other of his called "Crosses." (mms://media2.7digital.com/motion/rtsp/Jose_Gonzalez_Crosses_Med.wmv)

And that's John Lydon (Johnny Rotten) singing, not Sid Vicious. Sid really didn't have anything to do with the album itself. :p

Well then, I guess that's why I like Public Image Ltd. so much, it's the one part of The Sex Pistols I liked, but with more new wave.

Surely you mean Richard Berry. ;)

And Nirvana wasn't the only grunge band, nor was SLTS their only song. :p

This is true, they weren't, and i always preferred Tad and Mudhoney myself (speaking as someone who was there, if not in Seattle, at least in spirit), but no SLTS, no grunge breaking, even someone who tired of Nirvana after about 92 can see that.

Forgive me for not wanting to slog through yet another music genre thread, but am I the only one so far who thinks the notion of attempting to convince someone to listen to a music genre without the immediate capacity to demonstrate the music (effectively make a presentation) to be at least a little whacked?
Well, my original idea was to have people give explanations as to precisely what about the music they enjoyed, but it didn't seem to work out that way.

I suppose you've never heard of diminished chords, 7th chords, or the Tristan chord? What about Neapolitan chords, inverted chords, and so on?
Yeah, and a lot of rock music has these too. (with the possible exception of the Tristan chord, but i'm probably wrong, as the basic chord composition really isn't hard to effect on a guitar.)

How many pop bands change time signatures or even use unusual ones?
There's an entire genre that does this (although it's not actually that 'popular'). Math-rock.

Well yeah, establishing chords is important given that many are quite complex and shared rhythms are one way of doing it.

But the "complexity" of 20 sections is broken down quite a bit isn't it.

I suppose you've never heard of diminished chords, 7th chords, or the Tristan chord? What about Neapolitan chords, inverted chords, and so on?

And I suppose you're unaware that "crap" pop artists use those too? I suppose that you're unaware that they're just a different barre pattern on the guitar? I suppose that the fact that they aren't used as often as that durned power chord pattern in classical music is just a coincidence?


So? Are you saying that productivity is a bad thing? When you consider that the average Haydn symphony or Bach cantata was about 20 minutes long and they produced hundreds of them, I'd say that says a lot about their ability.

So they produced more music than the "crap" pop artist and produced it faster? You're agreeing to that? If you are, then you've just conceded that the "classical masters" (drunk, fat, rich old men the lot of them), were not truely composing complex enough music (since it was apparently so easy to write quickly).

Uh, syncopation exists in classical music. They don't use it a lot, but it's there and I doubt its relative scarcity is connected to difficulty given some of the passages that appear in classical.

Not really. I mean, Mozart ties his eigth notes to bring the emphasis off of the downbeat occasionally, but the music still depends on the very square rhythms of "classical" origion. "Given the difficulty" of classical parts? There are some very hard peices, but to be fair, none of them is harder than some modern guitar out there.

Well then, I guess that's why I like Public Image Ltd. so much, it's the one part of The Sex Pistols I liked, but with more new wave.

Yeah, Punk Rock's not for everyone, especially the earliest stuff (the Pistols' sound predates that of the Ramones by a few years; they started in 1972 and had their first song, "Lazy Sod", by '73, and "Did You No Wrong" by '74).

Public Image Ltd. are fantastic, but as with the Pistols, they're definitely not for everyone. Their best albums would be Metal Box, Flowers of Romance, and Album.

This is true, they weren't, and i always preferred Tad and Mudhoney myself (speaking as someone who was there, if not in Seattle, at least in spirit), but no SLTS, no grunge breaking, even someone who tired of Nirvana after about 92 can see that.

Probably not breaking through, but that wouldn't matter so much. The music would still be there.

(I like Tad and Mudhoney too, even if I prefer Nirvana. Mudhoney was probably the best gig i've ever been to.)

Probably not breaking through, but that wouldn't matter so much. The music would still be there.

(I like Tad and Mudhoney too, even if I prefer Nirvana. Mudhoney was probably the best gig i've ever been to.)

Yeah, but the point about Nirvana breaking through is it opened the floodgates - not for the legion of grunge-lite bands that followed (although it did for them likewise), but basically because any band with any sense of "alternative" in their souls headed in the complete opposite direction, so you got your Becks and Mercury Revs and Flaming Lips and the like. Breakthrough, action, reaction.

I've liked José Gonzalez for years, even when he was only know in Sweden. Anyway, if you liked that song, you'll like this other of his called "Crosses." (mms://media2.7digital.com/motion/rtsp/Jose_Gonzalez_Crosses_Med.wmv)
Oooh, thanks, that was very nice indeed. And, um, yeah, I feel ever so pathetic right now for not even knowing he lives in Sweden. But isn't Veneer his debut album? Does that mean that until now he was just known in a "live performances at small clubs" kind of way?

Yeah, but the point about Nirvana breaking through is it opened the floodgates - not for the legion of grunge-lite bands that followed (although it did for them likewise), but basically because any band with any sense of "alternative" in their souls headed in the complete opposite direction, so you got your Becks and Mercury Revs and Flaming Lips and the like. Breakthrough, action, reaction.

True enough. But then, I never saw it in that light, because I got into grunge when everyone else my age was starting to get into that pop-punk garbage. I wasn't really into anything before that point. I guess grunge was my reaction, in a way.

You should listen to Power Metal.
By power metal I mean Iron Maiden, Rhapsody, Manowar, Dio, Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, Rainbow, Sonata Artica, Gamma Ray, Edguy, Hammerfall, Dragonforce, Falconer, Elvenkind, and so on. . .

The reasons why this is the best gerne is numerous, First off is that the music is just great sounding, and that is the most important aspect. Almost every song is a masterpeice in each aspect. The guitarists are some of the most talented in the world, the lyrics are precise, flow and are imersive, the bass is always strong and powerful, the drums just make you want to move. The sound of the music is just Powerful.

Another reason to listen to Power Metal is that it respectable and lasting. The band may not always get all the headlines but thats not their goal. These bands play for the love of playing. And you can feel their love in their songs. For example, Iron Maiden, a band that has been around for 27 years now, put out an albulm in 2003 called Dance of Death. This album is said to be one of their best. For a band to still produce quality albums after 20 years of playing professionally shows their love for genre. I doubt you will see numetal artists producing quality albums 20 years later. (Mainly because they cant produce quality now)
More reasons to listen to Power metal are the lyrics. They are insperational, and memorable. Unlike rap music which is completly degenerate and explicit, as well as emo being whiny and self destructive, Power metal is strong and respectable. As we can compare Rap: "Nigga if a nickel bag sold in the park, I want in on it (uh huh)
The bullshit I'm in right now nigga, I've been on it (yeah)
If I don't eat, nobody eat, code of the street
No surrender, no retreat, my niggaz rollin' with heat (woo)"
Emo: "Today I fell and felt better
Just knowing this matters
I just feel stronger and sharper
Found a box of sharp objects what a beautiful thing"
Power Metal: "Visions of disaster are now challenging the wild storms
cyclops of the midlands wash my bloody shore
Sirens from the open seas now heal my broken wounded brain
I call the holy typhoons... air, fire, earth!
The heart of the dragon is screaming awaiting
to write the black last page
The page of blood was written by them...
the dead now lying on the sand
FROM THE SILENT HILL WE SCREAM LOUD YOUR NAME
MIGHTY POWER OF THE DRAGONFLAME
FROM THE MOUNTAINS PROUD AND STRONG
WE CALL OUR DRAGONLORD"

With These points made to you, how can you not listen to power metal?

Oooh, thanks, that was very nice indeed. And, um, yeah, I feel ever so pathetic right now for not even knowing he lives in Sweden. But isn't Veneer his debut album? Does that mean that until now he was just known in a "live performances at small clubs" kind of way?

He was a little gem we kept secret for the longest time, and he even lacked a record deal when I first heard of him - you could download the songs off his website! Then some show on TV did a special on him...

But the "complexity" of 20 sections is broken down quite a bit isn't it.

Nonsense, it's still several distinct parts, often interacting contrapuntally (something you don't see in pop music). There is also the issue of using each instrument effectively and knowing what it can and can't do, not to mention how it blends with other instruments.

And I suppose you're unaware that "crap" pop artists use those too? I suppose that you're unaware that they're just a different barre pattern on the guitar? I suppose that the fact that they aren't used as often as that durned power chord pattern in classical music is just a coincidence?

Ever heard of the three chord song? Last time I checked, pop songs rarely modulate (unless they use the crude gear shift method) whereas classical pieces almost always modulate at least a few times.

So they produced more music than the "crap" pop artist and produced it faster? You're agreeing to that? If you are, then you've just conceded that the "classical masters" (drunk, fat, rich old men the lot of them), were not truely composing complex enough music (since it was apparently so easy to write quickly).

While some of those pieces were probably not the greatest, they were still all at least a certain length and involved complex forms like counterpoint and the sonata-allegro.

Not really. I mean, Mozart ties his eigth notes to bring the emphasis off of the downbeat occasionally, but the music still depends on the very square rhythms of "classical" origion. "Given the difficulty" of classical parts? There are some very hard peices, but to be fair, none of them is harder than some modern guitar out there.

I suggest you look into later works of classical music. There is classical after Beethoven, you know.

You should listen to Power Metal.
By power metal I mean Iron Maiden, Rhapsody, Manowar, Dio, Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, Rainbow, Sonata Artica, Gamma Ray, Edguy, Hammerfall, Dragonforce, Falconer, Elvenkind, and so on. . .

I hate to be a pedant, but Sabbath and Deep Purple aren't power metal...i'm not sure about all of the others, but I know Manowar, Dragonforce and Sonata Artica are. I suppose Maiden sort-of are, but I don't know enough of their stuff to say for sure.

Oh, and your perception of rap music is dumb. Sorry. Public Enemy wrote a song called "I don't wanna be called yo nigga". Look it up. :p

With These points made to you, how can you not listen to power metal?
Because, with all due respect here, thrash, death, black, and tribal metal are all better.

Edit: I forgot prog! How the f*ck could I forget prog-metal?!

He was a little gem we kept secret for the longest time, and he even lacked a record deal when I first heard of him - you could download the songs off his website! Then some show on TV did a special on him... Aw, it's always kind of bitter-sweet when your favourite little band suddenly ups and becomes famous and whatnot. Though I would have thought it started with that terrific Sony TV ad. At least that's the only time I've ever heard any songs of his.

Because, with all due respect here, thrash, death, black, and tribal metal are all better.

And doom and stoner > those. :D

And doom and stoner > those. :D
I'll just let you live in your little deluded world...;)

Nothing beats prog or thrash metal. Except post rock.

Well, my original idea was to have people give explanations as to precisely what about the music they enjoyed, but it didn't seem to work out that way.
Oh, I see -- more like, "I like reggae because it has a mellow beat and sounds even better when you're lit"?

Oh, I see -- more like, "I like reggae because it has a mellow beat and sounds even better when you're lit"?
Something along those lines, yeah. If you want to, feel free to completely move this thread off the topic it's on...

I'll just let you live in your little deluded world...;)

Nothing beats prog or thrash metal. Except post rock.

You can live in your deluded little world considering that you haven't heard most of it. :p Some stoner/doom stuff is really prog-like, anyway.

And thrash...meh. It's hit or miss with me. I like some, hate others.

Aw, it's always kind of bitter-sweet when your favourite little band suddenly ups and becomes famous and whatnot. Though I would have thought it started with that terrific Sony TV ad. At least that's the only time I've ever heard any songs of his.

Oh, he had several hits before the Sony business, but I guess that might have been his break abroad.

Anyway, for that bad music taste, again. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAgaFvzSDsw&search=aller%20plus%20haut)

I'll just let you live in your little deluded world...;)

Nothing beats prog or thrash metal. Except post rock.

Prog > all. It's like classical music and rock music had an illegitimate child.

Anyway, for that bad music taste, again. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAgaFvzSDsw&search=aller%20plus%20haut) Heh, at least you gave fair warning. Since I seem to be in a slightly masochistic mood today I still wanted to take a peek, but she was so bad, she broke youtube. Tsk, tsk.

Heh, at least you gave fair warning. Since I seem to be in a slightly masochistic mood today I still wanted to take a peek, but she was so bad, she broke youtube. Tsk, tsk.

It happens sometimes with French ballads sung by people who can't pronounce French correctly. My bad.

Hey, I just downloaded Out of Sight by Spiritualized, and it's not the song I thought it was. (or did I just download the wrong song?)
The techno song on the credits of V for Vendetta, with the politicians speaking clips and the dark guitar riff should be Out of Sight, right? Or am I completely off?

And I suppose you're unaware that "crap" pop artists use those too? I suppose that you're unaware that they're just a different barre pattern on the guitar? I suppose that the fact that they aren't used as often as that durned power chord pattern in classical music is just a coincidence?

EVERYone uses the same chordal vocabulary that was invented largely in the Baroque era and expanded upon in the Classical, Romantic and Impressoinist eras, and mostly abandoned in the 20th Century. The main difference is placement, timing, voicing and voice leading. You've just about no clue as to what you're talking about and know just enough to be insipidly dangerous.


So they produced more music than the "crap" pop artist and produced it faster? You're agreeing to that? If you are, then you've just conceded that the "classical masters" (drunk, fat, rich old men the lot of them), were not truely composing complex enough music (since it was apparently so easy to write quickly).

NONE of them were rich, and they couldn't help getting old, could they? Fat is irrelevant. Bach was employed by the Church, and you just don't get rich doing that, period, unless you're in charge. Mozart tried to be a middle class / merchant class composer, but that market wa limited to composing for wealthy patrons (most often heads of state) who were few and far between. Hell, the Church literally kicked Mozart down the steps of the Salzburg Cathedral -- he died penniless trying to maintain the lifestyle he sought as a reward for his considerable talent and craft. All who hung around him thought he was a gas to have along, but none would finance him. He was buried in a pauper's mass grave -- no headstone -- nobody knows exactly where his remains are.

As for complexity, let's examine one thing: the music Haydn and Mozart composed was almost never what they wanted. Rather, it was whoever was footing the bill wanted. Be that Cardinal, Bishop, King or Duke, it had better have tickled their musical fancy or there'd be no pay. In short, they were slaves to the same forces that makes your "pop crap" so popular. The fact that they consistently wrote for ensembles of 25-40 musicians and had to carefully orchestrate according to the rules and fancies of the day while still managing to set themselves apart involves a complexity that you're failing to appreciate. But don't worry, you're far from the first.

Look at Mozart's last works -- he was already departing from the boring mannerism and formalism that plagued the era. His departures caught the eye of Beethoven, who carried those early departures into the underpinnings of the Romantic era (Chopin, Berlioz, R. Strauss, Verdi, Mendelssohn, etc.).


Not really. I mean, Mozart ties his eigth notes to bring the emphasis off of the downbeat occasionally, but the music still depends on the very square rhythms of "classical" origion. "Given the difficulty" of classical parts? There are some very hard peices, but to be fair, none of them is harder than some modern guitar out there.
"Occasionally"? Christ on a cracker, man! Look at the entirety of the theme to Mozart's 25th String Concerto! The whole theme is syncopated! The third movement (minuet and trio) from Symphony #40 is chock full of rhythmic deception. Even the Requiem has syncopation in it. The Baroque era was home to all kinds of rhythmic devices designed to throw off the listener's sense of meter. Think hemiolas, sequences and (even farther back) hocket, talea and color.

Oh, and excuse me, but where's the complexity in power-chord rock? Sometimes I wonder if those blokes can count to more or less than four! See how narrow minded that sounds?

If Classical "parts" are so easy, let's see you sit down and play any part of any Classical era symphony on any instrument you choose, and keep to Classical traditions with regard to: ornaments, appogiatura conventions, cadenzas, cadences, dynamics (both as a whole and relative to other parts), balance, blend and tone, and do all of this at once.

Look -- every music has its pieces of cake and its complexities, but to sit there and mindlessly bash something you clearly do not understand is just plain vapid.

ORly?

We've dissagreed over this before, but I assure you that most classical music was not as difficult as it's cult of personality would have you think.

(I still wouldn't want to have to play a concert that contained more than one peice of the calibur of Brams' 'Variations on a Theme by Haydn', but I wouldn't want to play a concert with more than one peice of the calibur of 'Tom Sawyer' by Rush either)
Which means you're bitching without any ability to play anything?

It ain't a matter of just playing the notes. Kids can learn Classical era piano pieces, that's true, but they can't perform them the way they're supposed to be performed (in fact, most of those pieces are pared down and arranged especially for younger players). I don't agree with any kind of musical elitism, but sheer ignorance is far worse.

Musical incompetence destroys quality. Power chords and drum machines do not make good music. If that qualifies as élitism, then so does the institution of medical care, carpentry, and anything else that requires special skill to do properly.


I agree with the first sentence, but disagree with the second. You're making a subjective judgement based on your personal tastes. That makes nothing "good" or "bad" to anyone but you. As a vocalist, I can't play even barre chords on a guitar. I'm a bass-baritone, so I can't even sing most of the songs in the pop-rock canon without using at least a little falsetto. This doesn't make me talentless. Then again, the lead singers of most of the groups mentioned here can't sing Vaughan-Williams' Songs of Travel, and I wouldn't want them to.

I guess that makes me a snob then.
Yes, it does.

But it's all so fake. John Lennon, for example, was a millionaire who only pretended to be a socialist and couldn't even read music. When I listen to those songs, I just hear the modern culture industry's attempt to make as much profit as possible for the lowest input.
So what if Lennon couldn't read music? Neither could Stevie Wonder or Ray Charles! You would call them someting less than geniuses? And what does one's financial status have to do with anything? Shit, you have to be rich to be a socialist!

When you hear "Imagine", you seriously hear capitalism? You need to share your drugs.

I'd call it "progressive metal", bordering on rock.

I dunno. Some of their songs are pretty mellow, some of them are pretty hard. They pretty much cover the spectrum and then some, especially if you throw in their 'secret' tracks.

Although Good Vibrations is one of the best singles ever made, without which we wouldn't have had grunge and all that followed.

(and for those of you who can't see the link it goes - "Louie Louie" The Kingsmen; "Good Vibrations" - The Beach Boys; "Debaser" - The Pixies; "Smells Like Teen Spirit" - Nirvana)
You're off your nut.

NOTHING came between The Beach Boys and The Pixies?!? That's a stretch that would injure Plastic Man.

Nonsense, it's still several distinct parts, often interacting contrapuntally (something you don't see in pop music). There is also the issue of using each instrument effectively and knowing what it can and can't do, not to mention how it blends with other instruments.

You're basing all pop on what gets played on the radio. You want to hear pop counterpoint? Owsley, Ben Folds, XTC.

Ever heard of the three chord song? Last time I checked, pop songs rarely modulate (unless they use the crude gear shift method) whereas classical pieces almost always modulate at least a few times.

Yeah, and a lot of Classical works contain only three chords as well. Bach Chorales, Baroque Sonatinas, Concerti Grossi...the modulations you refer to are merely to the relative minor (or major) or to the key of the dominant. Not particularly mind-bending key shifts, are they?

While some of those pieces were probably not the greatest, they were still all at least a certain length and involved complex forms like counterpoint and the sonata-allegro.

Counterpoint isn't a form, it's a compositional mode. Sonata-allegro is indeed a form, one of many which are still in use even in pop music. Binary (A-B), rounded binary (AB-A), ternary (A-B-A or A'), rondo (A-B-A-C-A...etc.) and even theme & variation have all been used in pop and rock music. Your elitism seems to serve only one function -- to make you seem somehow better than those who don't listen to what you listen to. That in fact makes you no better than any genrist who spouts nonsense about personal preference masquerading as genre superiority. It isn't your opinion that's the problem, it's how you're presenting it.

I suggest you look into later works of classical music. There is classical after Beethoven, you know.

No, there isn't. Early music is widely known to be separated into several periods, as follows:

Medieval: 1100~1450
Renaissance: 1450~1650
Baroque: 1650~1750
Rococo or Empfansamerkeit: 1740~1760
Classical: 1750~1820 (Neo-Classicism today...)
Romantic: 1820~1920 (Neo-Romanticism today...)
Impressionism: 1875~1920 (Neo-Impressionism today...)
Serialism: 1910~1940 (Still hanging on but tonality is in the middle of a comeback)
"20th Century": 1915~ (Modalism, Musique Concrete, Tape (1950), Aleatoric, Danger Music, and many more "postmodern" quasi-genres)

EDIT: These dates are far from solid lines. No genre ever just switches over like that. Lost of music historians link the Baroque period directly to Bach's lifespan (1685-1750) or attribulte the end of Classical with the death of Beethoven (1770-1827

"Classical" is but an era. "Classical" became the default name for anything involving symphonies, orcherstras, choirs or chamber ensembles of smaller groups of the same (and that generalization is one of my pet peeves...).

You're basing all pop on what gets played on the radio. You want to hear pop counterpoint? Owsley, Ben Folds, XTC.

I've never even heard of them. How can a band be pop if they aren't even popular? By definition, popular music is what plays on the radio, right? A few exceptions don't change the fact that, by and large, pop doesn't do counterpoint.

Yeah, and a lot of Classical works contain only three chords as well. Bach Chorales, Baroque Sonatinas, Concerti Grossi...the modulations you refer to are merely to the relative minor (or major) or to the key of the dominant. Not particularly mind-bending key shifts, are they?

That's more than you find in pop songs and you forget about the kinds of modulations that occur in the development sections of sonatas and the kinds undertaken by Romantics.

Counterpoint isn't a form, it's a compositional mode. Sonata-allegro is indeed a form, one of many which are still in use even in pop music. Binary (A-B), rounded binary (AB-A), ternary (A-B-A or A'), rondo (A-B-A-C-A...etc.) and even theme & variation have all been used in pop and rock music. Your elitism seems to serve only one function -- to make you seem somehow better than those who don't listen to what you listen to. That in fact makes you no better than any genrist who spouts nonsense about personal preference masquerading as genre superiority. It isn't your opinion that's the problem, it's how you're presenting it.

Ok, show me an example of a sonata in popular music. Sorry, but you claimed they exist, so you had better be prepared to back it up.

No, there isn't. Early music is widely known to be separated into several periods, as follows:

You know I meant the genre and not the period.:rolleyes:

I should open my CD vault and allow my collection to be criticized, given all my ranting heretofore. I will admit that my tastes don't run to "metal" in its myriad guises (some of which seem dubious...do we really need that many branches of metal?), but nothing's better when you're just plain pissed off. Which brings me to my criteria -- I go by mood as well. I gave up on genre labels when I heard someone describe a band (whose name I didn't catch) as "Garage-power pop-industrial-surf punk-thrash" with a straight face. Good grief!

INTELLECTUAL/THOUGHTFUL
Miles Davis
Mozart
XTC
Moxy Fruvous
Suzanne Vega
Thelonious Monk
Beethoven
Duke Ellington
Joe Jackson
New York Voices
Thomas Dolby

FUN/ENERGETIC
Yoko Kanno (w/Seatbelts)
The Tubes
Cherry Poppin' Daddies
Count Basie
Louis Jordan
Owsley
Ben Folds
DaVinci's Notebook
The Bobs
Manhattan Transfer
The Hi-Los
They Might Be Giants
Fountains of Wayne

JUST DAMNED ANGRY
Ministry
Holst ("Mars" from The Planets)
Stan Kenton
Charles Mingus Big Band
Henry Rollins
Consolidated

NOSTALGIC
Huey Lewis & The News
The Beatles (together or separately)
Harry Chapin
Musical Soundtracks (Rogers & Hammerstein, Lerner & Lowe, Meredith Wilson, Jones & Schmidt, Cy Coleman, Stephen Sondheim -- NO Andrew Lloyd-bleeding-Weber)


GROOVE
Us3
Joshua Redman
Terence Trent D'Arby
Digable Planets
Living Colour
Sir Mix-A-Lot (he did far more than the ass track)
The Art of Noise
Level 42

...there's a shitload more. This is all I can think of right now.

I've never even heard of them. How can a band be pop if they aren't even popular? By definition, popular music is what plays on the radio, right? A few exceptions don't change the fact that, by and large, pop doesn't do counterpoint.

Pop as a style evolved from your limited definition a long time ago. It was based on what got airplay, which at first was race records (Black rhythm & blues fused with gospel and other influences) that were covered (or stolen) by white acts: Bill Haley and the Comets, early Beatles, etc. It was then taken to the studio and refined: The Beach Boys, The Association, etc. Folk influences entered the fray: Dylan, Mamas & Papas, etc. Fragmentation began in earnest after the end of psychadelia (Hendrix, Jefferson Airplane, etc.), and by the early 70s, "pop" or "top 40" radio contained damn near every genre in it: Southern rock (Allman Bros., Skynrd), folk rock (Crosby/Stills/Nash, America), funk (War, Deodato, Average White Band, Atlanta Rhythm Section, Tower of Power), singer songwriters (John Denver, Harry Chapin, Janis Ian, Carly Simon, Paul Simon, Gordon Lightfoot), and then came disco. Point is, "pop" refers to a collective of styles designed to please musical sensibilities (which doesn't even take lyrical content into account). There are even sub-genres: "power-pop", "Brit-pop" and so forth.

That's more than you find in pop songs and you forget about the kinds of modulations that occur in the development sections of sonatas and the kinds undertaken by Romantics.

By the Romantic era, modulation wasn't really a set process -- tonal harmony was getting expanded and set key areas were temporary at best. You're reaching. Again, just because you haven't heard it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Incidentally, the development section of sonatas is little more than a modulation to the dominant (V) or the relative or parallel minor/major.

Ok, show me an example of a sonata in popular music. Sorry, but you claimed they exist, so you had better be prepared to back it up.

XTC, "The Wheel and the Maypole" from Wasp Star: Two discrete sections bifurcated by transitional material, and a coda which includes elements from both sections. Joe Jackson, Willpower: a five-movement pop symphony, the first movement of which is a sonata.

You know I meant the genre and not the period.:rolleyes:
I knew, but it's the height of arrogance to demand that everyone knows. You're just being fractious and spiteful because you came in here like some kind of whiny elitist and got smacked for it. Thing is, I completely agree with you, but your attitude represents everything that's wrong with people who try to introduce others to concert music (Classical or any other era). You can't shake that air of smugness, so you seek to justify it. If you scroll back some posts, you'll see I at first defended you. No longer. You're an arrogant, elitist, semi-enlightened snob. Relax and open your dim horizons.

I should open my CD vault and allow my collection to be criticized, given all my ranting heretofore. I will admit that my tastes don't run to "metal" in its myriad guises (some of which seem dubious...do we really need that many branches of metal?), but nothing's better when you're just plain pissed off. Which brings me to my criteria -- I go by mood as well. I gave up on genre labels when I heard someone describe a band (whose name I didn't catch) as "Garage-power pop-industrial-surf punk-thrash" with a straight face. Good grief!
You think metal's bad? What about dance?
Ambient (including ambient dub, ambient goa, chillout, dark ambient, dronology, psybient, sub dub); Breakbeat (inc. breakcore, grime, broken beat, 'nu skool' break, progressive break, raggacore); Hardcore (inc. four-beat, breakbeat hardcore (fuck's sake), digi-core (or digital hardcore), happy hardcore, gabber, speedcore, nu beat); House (inc. acid house, eurodance, funky house, garage, deep house, hard house, Hi-NRG, tribal, minimal house, spacesynth); IDM (inc. trip-hop, minimalist electronica, bitpop, acid jazz); Electro (inc. electroclash, synthpop, electropop); Industrial (inc. EBM, aggropop, industrial techno, power noise); DnB/Jungle (inc. darkcore, drill n bass, liquid funk, ragga, drumfunk, hardstep); Trance (inc. acid trance, hard trance, hardcore trance, dark trance, minimalist trance, psych-trance (or trance-psych), hardstyle, epic trance); Techno (inc. acid techno, nortec, 'freetekno', rave, and something mysteriously called 'Yorkshire Bleeps and Bass).

I'm more a metal fan than a dance fan, yet I couldn't give a list of metal genres as detailed as that.

Um, its free? Is that not reason enough?

Turmion Kätilöt - Vertä ja Lihaa (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HISEPFnsQ-Q&search=Finland): Intersting video.
Corvus Corax - Shou Shou Cheng (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R32BhMlC4ok&search=Corvus%20Corax): Medieval rock.
Amorphis - House Of Sleep (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzeCi2kHQlA&search=Finland): Progs your thing, right?
Panjabi MC - Mundian To Bach Ke (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poU6Wj3l_tA&search=Panjabi%20MC): I liked it. It made me warm in the winter. Despite they're from London.
Kent - Musik Non Stop (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aN0nvjar0dA&search=Kent%20-%20Hagnesta%20Hill): Its in English as well, but I don't need to listen to it to know it disappoints.
Ojos de Brujo - Ley de Gravidad (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJ3v8Wbm7OM&search=Ojos%20de%20Brujo): One of the slower songs. Too bad I'm too lazy to look for another site.

You think metal's bad? What about dance?
Ambient (including ambient dub, ambient goa, chillout, dark ambient, dronology, psybient, sub dub); Breakbeat (inc. breakcore, grime, broken beat, 'nu skool' break, progressive break, raggacore); Hardcore (inc. four-beat, breakbeat hardcore (fuck's sake), digi-core (or digital hardcore), happy hardcore, gabber, speedcore, nu beat); House (inc. acid house, eurodance, funky house, garage, deep house, hard house, Hi-NRG, tribal, minimal house, spacesynth); IDM (inc. trip-hop, minimalist electronica, bitpop, acid jazz); Electro (inc. electroclash, synthpop, electropop); Industrial (inc. EBM, aggropop, industrial techno, power noise); DnB/Jungle (inc. darkcore, drill n bass, liquid funk, ragga, drumfunk, hardstep); Trance (inc. acid trance, hard trance, hardcore trance, dark trance, minimalist trance, psych-trance (or trance-psych), hardstyle, epic trance); Techno (inc. acid techno, nortec, 'freetekno', rave, and something mysteriously called 'Yorkshire Bleeps and Bass).

I'm more a metal fan than a dance fan, yet I couldn't give a list of metal genres as detailed as that.
You had me at "Ambient"...


...had me gut-laughing at the pretentiousness of so many sub-sub-genres. What a load of rubbish! Thanks for the education -- I'll never slag metal for it's branches again!

You had me at "Ambient"...


...had me gut-laughing at the pretentiousness of so many sub-sub-genres. What a load of rubbish! Thanks for the education -- I'll never slag metal for it's branches again!
Heh, no problem. I got that list from wiki, and I only took about two-thirds of the crap listed.

By the Romantic era, modulation wasn't really a set process -- tonal harmony was getting expanded and set key areas were temporary at best. You're reaching. Again, just because you haven't heard it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Incidentally, the development section of sonatas is little more than a modulation to the dominant (V) or the relative or parallel minor/major.

The development section is far more complex than that. Surely you should know that. It involves modulations to very distant keys and the development of material from the exposition in a variety of ways such as sequential treatment. The development section is often as large as the exposition and recapitulation because of this, and is much more than a quick modulation to a related key.

I knew, but it's the height of arrogance to demand that everyone knows. You're just being fractious and spiteful because you came in here like some kind of whiny elitist and got smacked for it. Thing is, I completely agree with you, but your attitude represents everything that's wrong with people who try to introduce others to concert music (Classical or any other era). You can't shake that air of smugness, so you seek to justify it. If you scroll back some posts, you'll see I at first defended you. No longer. You're an arrogant, elitist, semi-enlightened snob. Relax and open your dim horizons.

I'm sorry. It's just that classical is under attack and it's hard not to overreact to that sort of threat. I'm sorry for flaming, but I'm just trying to defend my favorite genre.

The development section is far more complex than that. Surely you should know that. It involves modulations to very distant keys and the development of material from the exposition in a variety of ways such as sequential treatment. The development section is often as large as the exposition and recapitulation because of this, and is much more than a quick modulation to a related key.

Not really. By the Romantic era, key areas were fluid. Composers would come back to tonic as a way of reassuring listeners that they hadn't completely lost their minds. Classical formalism and tonality was being shed like so many petticoats at a party hosted by either of the Schumans.

I'm sorry. It's just that classical is under attack and it's hard not to overreact to that sort of threat. I'm sorry for flaming, but I'm just trying to defend my favorite genre.
Classical was hardly under attack. You didn't flame, but your first post denigrated all other music in comparison to classical. In short, you invited the attack by asserting Classical's superiority. Again, I completely agree with you on the whole talent level issue, but I'd never come into any NS thread and shred metal (or rap or even country) by comparing it to Beethoven. It ain't gonna fly and no amount of regurgitated music theory and music history will dig you out of that hole. Art defies comparison to itself. You're a good egg. Don't sweat the flailings of those who can't grasp your reasoning.

Which means you're bitching without any ability to play anything?

That's as much as you know, isn't it? I've played classical viola for a decade now and guitar for almost half that time. I'm fairly litterate with the guitar and considering a minor in music playing the viola (would be a major if performance viola if I didn't want to be able to make ends meet). I assure you that I can play many things. If you had seen the music for either of the peices I named, you would understand. The Brahms is a proffessional level peice that spans 20 minutes of difficult music (especially for the viola, seeing as how Brahms Viola parts are always more difficult than, say, Mozart). It wasn't an arrangement. Anything by Rush is beyond complicated and borders on virtuosic.

It ain't a matter of just playing the notes. Kids can learn Classical era piano pieces, that's true, but they can't perform them the way they're supposed to be performed (in fact, most of those pieces are pared down and arranged especially for younger players). I don't agree with any kind of musical elitism, but sheer ignorance is far worse.

And you suppose that the arrogant assumption that "power chord" rock is just about the notes is acurate either? So much for disliking ignorance, eh? Don't get me wrong, I can appreciate both forms of music, but classical music has a cult of personality developed for it that has made it into much more that it is, and I despise music snobs who insist on waving their noses in the air about the "superiority" of their music (which is just the pop music of it's time). I run into enough snobs of that sort between different music commitments that I have a bit of a knee-jerk reaction regarding them.

I don't deny the valuelessness of 3-chord, mindless, pop, but "Mindless Power Chord Rock" also includes Math Rock (rhythmically more difficult than most classical music) and Symphonic Metal on the musical side, and plenty of ideologically, lyrically more interesting music on the other.

I'll do it this way...

Primus, Mr. Bungle, Smash Mouth, Ron Thal :D

Slayer, Morbid Angel, Deicide, Cannibal Corpse :upyours:

NWA, Geto Boys, Scarface, :sniper:

Lionel Richie, Rod Stewart, Air Supply :fluffle:

Michael Jackson, Culture Club, Madonna :confused:

Metallica, Testament, Pantera :headbang:

I'll do it this way...

Primus, Mr. Bungle, Smash Mouth, Ron Thal :D

Slayer, Morbid Angel, Deicide, Cannibal Corpse :upyours:

NWA, Geto Boys, Scarface, :sniper:

Lionel Richie, Rod Stewart, Air Supply :fluffle:

Michael Jackson, Culture Club, Madonna :confused:

Metallica, Testament, Pantera :headbang:
I'll do it this way:
You have no tolerance of other people's tastes. I stated in my first post that I didn't want posts like this.

I'll do it this way:
You have no tolerance of other people's tastes. I stated in my first post that I didn't want posts like this.

Whoa, ummm, I think you misunderstood my post, dude! The smileys are indictive of the mood I'd be in when listening to the bands listed! It has nothing to do with judging other peoples choices!

Whoa, ummm, I think you misunderstood my post, dude! The smileys are indictive of the mood I'd be in when listening to the bands listed! It has nothing to do with judging other peoples choices!
Oh, ok. Sorry. Here, have a :fluffle: :)