NationStates Jolt Archive

I am asking seriously how come, in all the time I have spent in the classroom, the only children who have ever said, "You're just a woman, you can't teach me anything." or "I don't have to do what you say, you're just a woman." are those of Muslim background. I mean, is it just a bad run on my part, that these are the main experiences with Islam that I have had? I will admit, I have been called a godless heathen by a kid before, because I told him he couldn't call all the kids in the class "betrayers of Christ" for fornicating. However, that was an isolated incident in the large number of Christian kids I have taught.

Or is it perhaps, not a "disrespect issue" as such, but more an issue of the more clearly defined gender roles in Islam-based cultures? I know that many Indigenous cultures hold to "women's business" taught by the women, to the women, and "men's business" taught to the men, by the men.

As a teacher, who is encountering more students from this culture, I would like some thoughts on the issue in order to adapt my planning and teaching/behaviour management strategies accordingly.

P.S. Please don't flame me, I'm really not trying to be racist.

Islam is not a race. :) You really can't be racist in criticising (or otherwise) a religion, unless that religion is also tied to an ethnic group (ie, Judaism, Christian Identity).

They might be fundamentalists. Or, they might just be irritating children who happen to be Muslim.

Islam is not a race. :) You really can't be racist in criticising (or otherwise) a religion, unless that religion is also tied to an ethnic group (ie, Judaism, Christian Identity).

There is no such thing as a Christian ethnic group, either.

Or is it perhaps, not a "disrespect issue" as such, but more an issue of the more clearly defined gender roles in Islam-based cultures? I know that many Indigenous cultures hold to "women's business" taught by the women, to the women, and "men's business" taught to the men, by the men. Well, it depends. Are these students from the same geographic area? A lot of people use "Arab" and "Muslim" interchangably, even though not all Arabs are Muslim, and not even half of Muslims are Arabs.

As a teacher, who is encountering more students from this culture, I would like some thoughts on the issue in order to adapt my planning and teaching/behaviour management strategies accordingly. Well, you could ask your students if they believe that people with high IQs know things and are knowledgable, and if they say yes, point out that the person with the highest IQ is female.

There is no such thing as a Christian ethnic group, either.

Christian Identity is a... movement I guess you could call it, who believe that only white people have souls, and that jewish people are descended from satan. They are exclusively white. Otherwise no, there is no such thing as a Christian ethnic group. Although some eastern orthodox churches blur the line very closely (it stands to reason that all members of the Greek Orthodox church are, in fact Greek.)

Islam is not a race. :) You really can't be racist in criticising (or otherwise) a religion, unless that religion is also tied to an ethnic group (ie, Judaism, Christian Identity).

I should have said discriminatory. Please excuse my slip which therefore rendered my entire post completely unintelligible.

Well, it depends. Are these students from the same geographic area? A lot of people use "Arab" and "Muslim" interchangably, even though not all Arabs are Muslim, and not even half of Muslims are Arabs.



There are a lot from Lebanon and Turkey.

As to the rest, I don't want to spark conflict. I more want strategies to manage behaviour and avert conflict between students of this type and students (particularly female) of other backgrounds or values.

I am asking seriously how come, in all the time I have spent in the classroom, the only children who have ever said, "You're just a woman, you can't teach me anything." or "I don't have to do what you say, you're just a woman." are those of Muslim background. I mean, is it just a bad run on my part, that these are the main experiences with Islam that I have had?

As a teacher, who is encountering more students from this culture, I would like some thoughts on the issue in order to adapt my planning and teaching/behaviour management strategies accordingly.
It's an inevitable consequence of the teachings of Islam. I seriously doubt you'll ever find a way around it. Strict Islamic countries do require things like the head-to-toe Burka, yes? :(

They might be fundamentalists. Or, they might just be irritating children who happen to be Muslim.

Yeah, I think I'll have to take it on a case-by-case. Or just see if it's prefaced by, "My Imam/Mufti? told me..."

It's an inevitable consequence of the teachings of Islam. I seriously doubt you'll ever find a way around it. Strict Islamic countries do require things like the head-to-toe Burka, yes? :(

So? The Christian bible says that man is superior to woman, and requires them to cover their hair in mass as well.

There are a lot from Lebanon and Turkey. Ah, they're Arab. Yes, unfortunately many of the Arab countries have discriminatory views about women, but I would say that it's only indirectly related to Islam.

As to the rest, I don't want to spark conflict. I more want strategies to manage behaviour and avert conflict between students of this type and students (particularly female) of other backgrounds or values.Wouldn't proving them wrong avert conflict?

Ah, they're Arab. Yes, unfortunately many of the Arab countries have discriminatory views about women, but I would say that it's only indirectly related to Islam.

Turkey isn't Arab. :p

Turkey isn't Arab. :pThen what are they?

Then what are they?

Turkic. They have their origins in central Asia, rather than the Arabian peninsula.

Well, I know plenty of Muslims. Most of them aren't like that. However, next time someone says that to you, send them to the princepals office. If they continue, threaten to get them expelled.

In indonesia most women wear the headscarf, and they are certainly not arabic.

Would I be correct in assuming that "Listen up you greasy little shit, there's only a few feet of air between you and me and I can snap your neck one handed." would be inappropriate?

I dunno how you stopped yourself from beating the child. I probably would have. But then again, I'm lacking in 'people skills' to begin with.

In my personal opinion: Frankly, if they don't like/understand/accept the culture/system they're living in then they should GTFO. Beyond that, they should have been taught basic respect for others to not speak like that.
What's this say about the parents?

Well, I know plenty of Muslims. Most of them aren't like that. However, next time someone says that to you, send them to the princepals office. If they continue, threaten to get them expelled.

That's a little extreme. They're only children.

Would I be correct in assuming that "Listen up you greasy little shit, there's only a few feet of air between you and me and I can snap your neck one handed." would be inappropriate?


Depends on who's version of 'inappropriate' you're talking about.
I'd be for it.

That's a little extreme. They're only children.
Sending them to the princepal's office for continually disrespecting a teacher is extreme? My God, than '50s teachers must have been Al-Quada!

That's a little extreme. They're only children.

Children who need to learn the rules and how shit works around here/there.

This thread seems to be going down the lines of defining terms for particular groups of people.

However, my opinion to your original question is this:

Some Muslim groups believe women are inferior to men
Some Christian groups believe women are inferior to men.
Some atheists believe women are inferior to men.


I think you have just found a bad group, who happen to be Muslim. You rarely hear from the large groups of moderates (of all religions) who think everyone is equal.

Christian Identity is a... movement I guess you could call it, who believe that only white people have souls, and that jewish people are descended from satan. They are exclusively white. Otherwise no, there is no such thing as a Christian ethnic group. Although some eastern orthodox churches blur the line very closely (it stands to reason that all members of the Greek Orthodox church are, in fact Greek.)

White is not an ethnic group. Ethnicity != race. And being against the Christian Identity movement has nothing to do with either.

Sending them to the princepal's office for continually disrespecting a teacher is extreme? My God, than '50s teachers must have been Al-Quada!
You mentioned expelling them.

And to be honest, yeah, I'd draw a similar level considering some of the disgustingly sadistic things they did that i've been told about by people from that generation.

First- An Arab is a member of Middle-Eastern desent, specifically Saudi Arabia. You do not call an Iraqi an Arab, or a Turk, or an Israeli.

As for Muslims- they have strict rules given by the Koran (their bible) on what is proper and what is not. They have every right to express their religious views in a public forum. NOT IN A CLASSROOM. These students should be taught that in a classroom, religous comments are not tolerated, just like using vulgar words. This must apply to every student no matter what their religion.

I believe that any student quoting these type of religious tones should be removed from the class so that other students are not distracted by these individuals.

This thread seems to be going down the lines of defining terms for particular groups of people.

However, my opinion to your original question is this:

Some Muslim groups believe women are inferior to men
Some Christian groups believe women are inferior to men.
Some atheists believe women are inferior to men.


I think you have just found a bad group, who happen to be Muslim. You rarely hear from the large groups of moderates (of all religions) who think everyone is equal.
Arabs, who are about 49% of muslims (or so, I'm not sure) are mostly discriminatory of women.

They might be fundamentalists. Or, they might just be irritating children who happen to be Muslim.
Well, I'd say that in 99% of cases this has nothing to do with being fundamentalist or not.

They're kids from immigrant families (I'm not sure where you are, Saint Jade, but that much seems obvious from you post), and at least from what I see here in Germany, a lot of the time (i.e. Disclaimer: generalization) those families have some things in common that nurture that traditional patriarchic macho world view

- they're from the poorer, more traditional hinterland of their country of origin
- they're less educated
- they have a hard time being accepted and making a decent living here
- hence they desperately hold on to whatever they can from the "old country", especially when confronted with the "loose morals" of the West
- they don't know that back home things are changing, too
- hence they often end up much more rigid and hyper-traditional than the people back home in their countries of origin.

But yeah, while understandable, it's still not acceptable. We recently had a well-publicized "honor killing" here, where all the evidence points to the family having ordered the youngest son to kill his sister - because she had fled an arranged, abusive marriage in Turkey and was living alone with her baby son, daring to take off the headscarf and live a somewhat more "Western" life.

I don't know what you as a teacher (and a female, to boot) really can do to work against those ingrained prejudices, but something certainly needs to be done. But yeah, even here in Berlin, where there are classes in the poorer parts of the city consisting only of Muslim immigrant children, school and government officials are still trying to figure out how to deal with attitudes like that.

First- An Arab is a member of Middle-Eastern desent, specifically Saudi Arabia. You do not call an Iraqi an Arab, or a Turk, or an Israeli.

As for Muslims- they have strict rules given by the Koran (their bible) on what is proper and what is not. They have every right to express their religious views in a public forum. NOT IN A CLASSROOM. These students should be taught that in a classroom, religous comments are not tolerated, just like using vulgar words. This must apply to every student no matter what their religion.

I believe that any student quoting these type of religious tones should be removed from the class so that other students are not distracted by these individuals.
Intelligent religious discussion should be allowed. But "The Bible/Koran says so, so you're going to Hell!" should not.

That's a little extreme. They're only children.

If they continue to hold the attitude that they do not need to listen to a female teacher, then perhaps their parents should consider enrolling them in a different school.

That's a little extreme. They're only children.

In all fairness, they ain't human Kanabia. They're high schoolers. :p

In all fairness, they ain't human Kanabia. They're high schoolers. :p
Oh...I thought these were elementary schoolers. Dear God, they need to be expelled. That's ridicolous.

First- An Arab is a member of Middle-Eastern desent, specifically Saudi Arabia. You do not call an Iraqi an Arab, or a Turk, or an Israeli.

Untrue. There are Israeli's that have Arabic as their first language, and three quarters of Iraq does too.

First- An Arab is a member of Middle-Eastern desent, specifically Saudi Arabia. You do not call an Iraqi an Arab, or a Turk, or an Israeli.

Iraq is predominantly Arab, with Kurdish and Assyrian minorities.

They're high schoolers. :p

Expelled AND beaten with sticks.
Blah.

That is ridiculous.

Turkic. They have their origins in central Asia, rather than the Arabian peninsula.Looking at the CIA factbook, you seem to be right, although I find it odd that there seem to be no Arabs in Turkey. (The factbook estimates Turkey is 80% Turkish and 20% Kurdish.)

In all fairness, they ain't human Kanabia. They're high schoolers. :p

That's different, then, but I still don't advocate expelling them.

Expelled AND beaten with sticks.
Blah.

That is ridiculous.
I know. I could see it if they were elemtary students, but this is ridicolous.

Arabs, who are about 49% of muslims (or so, I'm not sure) are mostly discriminatory of women.

Where are you getting figures from? You are making a sweeping statement.

I'm a Christian and consider men and women equal. But I know of at least three churches that would not tolerate a female priest.

Looking at the CIA factbook, you seem to be right, although I find it odd that there seem to be no Arabs in Turkey. (The factbook estimates Turkey is 80% Turkish and 20% Kurdish.)

The reason behind that is probably that the Turkish government accepts only a small group of ethnicities as "minorities".

Where are you getting figures from? You are making a sweeping statement.

I'm a Christian and consider men and women equal. But I know of at least three churches that would not tolerate a female priest.
I meant Arab muslims, and that was an estimate. And, I know that female priests aren't tolerated. That's different from saying "You are your husband's slave."

Iraq is predominantly Arab, with Kurdish and Assyrian minorities.

True that majority of Iraqi's are Arabs. But you do not call them an Arab.

I currently work for NATO with a many different nationalities, too include Turkish people.

If you called them an Arab... They would be upset at the disrespect you have shown them.

That's different, then, but I still don't advocate expelling them.

I don't advocate expelling anyone.

I had a debate with our deputy about him expelling a girl who tried to stab him with a fountain pen. She had a horrific homelife and reacted, shall we say badly, to the guy screaming in her face. She liked the calm, soothey type voice.

I don't advocate expelling anyone.

I had a debate with our deputy about him expelling a girl who tried to stab him with a fountain pen. She had a horrific homelife and reacted, shall we say badly, to the guy screaming in her face. She liked the calm, soothey type voice.
Where exactly is this school? Germany, Turkey, UK, etc.?

I don't advocate expelling anyone.

I had a debate with our deputy about him expelling a girl who tried to stab him with a fountain pen. She had a horrific homelife and reacted, shall we say badly, to the guy screaming in her face. She liked the calm, soothey type voice.

Oh, I didn't mean to imply that you did, it was the other guy.

In either case, i'd recommend perscribing them a crash course of feminist literature, with an exam to top it all off. That should be punishment enough, even without the exam. :p

Well, I'd say that in 99% of cases this has nothing to do with being fundamentalist or not.

They're kids from immigrant families (I'm not sure where you are, Saint Jade, but that much seems obvious from you post), and at least from what I see here in Germany, a lot of the time (i.e. Disclaimer: generalization) those families have some things in common that nurture that traditional patriarchic macho world view

- they're from the poorer, more traditional hinterland of their country of origin
- they're less educated
- they have a hard time being accepted and making a decent living here
- hence they desperately hold on to whatever they can from the "old country", especially when confronted with the "loose morals" of the West
- they don't know that back home things are changing, too
- hence they often end up much more rigid and hyper-traditional than the people back home in their countries of origin.

But yeah, while understandable, it's still not acceptable. We recently had a well-publicized "honor killing" here, where all the evidence points to the family having ordered the youngest son to kill his sister - because she had fled an arranged, abusive marriage in Turkey and was living alone with her baby son, daring to take off the headscarf and live a somewhat more "Western" life.

I don't know what you as a teacher (and a female, to boot) really can do to work against those ingrained prejudices, but something certainly needs to be done. But yeah, even here in Berlin, where there are classes in the poorer parts of the city consisting only of Muslim immigrant children, school and government officials are still trying to figure out how to deal with attitudes like that.

I'm in Australia, and some of the families are well-off but some are horrifically poor. I made this post because hearing kids saying this makes me really angry, and I think understanding where it comes from can help me deal with it better and diffuse some explosive situations I've seen occuring.

Oh, I didn't mean to imply that you did, it was the other guy.

In either case, i'd recommend perscribing them a crash course of feminist literature, with an exam to top it all off. That should be punishment enough, even without the exam. :p

Lol. Hell, I love reading and literary theory, and I'd find that a punishment!

Personally, I'd laugh at them (guess what country I live in :P)

but as a female, that would probably be very insulting.

However, if they are Australian citizens, they should be treated as Australians, same rights as other, you are not allowed to put people down in any way, It is abuse. however, make sure they realise first :>

I am asking seriously how come, in all the time I have spent in the classroom, the only children who have ever said, "You're just a woman, you can't teach me anything." or "I don't have to do what you say, you're just a woman." are those of Muslim background. I mean, is it just a bad run on my part, that these are the main experiences with Islam that I have had? I will admit, I have been called a godless heathen by a kid before, because I told him he couldn't call all the kids in the class "betrayers of Christ" for fornicating. However, that was an isolated incident in the large number of Christian kids I have taught.

Or is it perhaps, not a "disrespect issue" as such, but more an issue of the more clearly defined gender roles in Islam-based cultures? I know that many Indigenous cultures hold to "women's business" taught by the women, to the women, and "men's business" taught to the men, by the men.

As a teacher, who is encountering more students from this culture, I would like some thoughts on the issue in order to adapt my planning and teaching/behaviour management strategies accordingly.

P.S. Please don't flame me, I'm really not trying to be racist.


Hah read what the Koran has to say about Women. See how the childrens fathers and brothers treat their mothers and Sisters.

Because all Muslims clearly hate women, that must be it.

Lol. Hell, I love reading and literary theory, and I'd find that a punishment!
:D

Hah read what the Koran has to say about Women. See how the childrens fathers and brothers treat their mothers and Sisters.

Yeah, and the Christian bible says some rather similar stuff, as i've already pointed out.

Because all Muslims clearly hate women, that must be it.

They also hate Freedom™.

:D



Yeah, and the Christian bible says some rather similar stuff, as i've already pointed out.


you ever actually read that thing? scaaaary. Depends on whose version you read tho.

:D



Yeah, and the Christian bible says some rather similar stuff, as i've already pointed out.

Yeah, I've had a few Christian kids making very discriminatory arguments about women in general basing it on Scripture.

you ever actually read that thing? scaaaary. Depends on whose version you read tho.

Yeah, I have. A good portion of it, anyway. Generally, I don't notice much difference in comparing versions, unless you're talking about the book of Mormon or something, which I don't know anything about.

Yeah, I've had a few Christian kids making very discriminatory arguments about women in general basing it on Scripture.

Yay! Sounds like you'll have enough people to actually teach a feminist literature class, then. What joy you'll have teaching that. :D

Yeah, I've had a few Christian kids making very discriminatory arguments about women in general basing it on Scripture.
You don't let people make racist comments in your class, do you? Do the same with sexist. Send anyone who says something sexist to the princepals office.

Because all Muslims clearly hate women, that must be it.

Clearly. I probably should have mentioned at some point that this is not every Muslim kid I have encountered. Many have actually been very respectful. I was trying to discover whether this came more from backward attitudes in the home or was a trend, similar to the rise in fundamentalist Christianity. When the Christian kids start saying the same things, I'll be on here again, begging for an explanation.

Because all Muslims clearly hate women, that must be it.


Now I didn't say that, but I have read the Koran, and no Muslim can deny what it says about Women. What I did say was read the Koran and what it say about Women, and use your eyes to watch how Muslim men actulay treat Women.

Belive the evidance of your eyes. If a Muslim reads one thing and then acts on that thing they have read, does that mean I am to blame for their actions, or themselves or the thing they have read, or the authour of the thing they have read.

All I said was read, and watch, and then a corralation will come to you.

You don't let people make racist comments in your class, do you? Do the same with sexist. Send anyone who says something sexist to the princepals office.

No, and I generally do treat all the kids the same. It's a little different when they're attacking the teachers. I've had a few which refuse to leave the room when requested, which then makes me send for the principal. It does make it difficult when the parent is justifying their attitude, and demanding that I be fired.

:D

Yeah, and the Christian bible says some rather similar stuff, as i've already pointed out.


Yep the same is true for the Christian Bible.

No, and I generally do treat all the kids the same. It's a little different when they're attacking the teachers. I've had a few which refuse to leave the room when requested, which then makes me send for the principal. It does make it difficult when the parent is justifying their attitude, and demanding that I be fired.
Tell those bigots to stop acting like school children and face the real world.

Yay! Sounds like you'll have enough people to actually teach a feminist literature class, then. What joy you'll have teaching that. :D
I love a good emasculation in the morning, followed by a latte and a shower. Tis dirty work. But good. ;)

It's a culture thing. Of course, some children will find a way to oppose authority or get out of something they don't like one way or another, and they just need an excuse. When I was a kid, some girls were bullying me, and I said that my mom told me that all Christians are mean and stupid. My mom never said such a thing and it was repeated and I got in big trouble. My point is, if a kid is pissed and wants to get back at you, they're going to do it, and if they heard or understood something at some point that women are inferior, they'll capitalize on that. They could just as well spread a rumor that you're a slut, or pass around notes with gross drawings insinuating that you're fat, or come to school and shoot you. You know?

...It does make it difficult when the parent is justifying their attitude, and demanding that I be fired.


Beat them all with VERY BIG sticks.

Solution to all problems.....

Punch them somewhere it hurts and play some 'sir mix-a-lot'


but seriously, record conversations if it happens often, thats soooo hatemongering, plus you could always claim child abuse for warping their childs mind beyond the legal limit

They could just as well spread a rumor that you're a slut, or pass around notes with gross drawings insinuating that you're fat, or come to school and shoot you. You know?

One of my friends had one of her students write on the pool area wall that she was a slut. I've never had bad things said about me like that.

Beat them all with VERY BIG sticks.

I wish I could. Massive ones. With nails in them.

Solution to all problems.....

Punch them somewhere it hurts and play some 'sir mix-a-lot'


but seriously, record conversations if it happens often, thats soooo hatemongering, plus you could always claim child abuse for warping their childs mind beyond the legal limit
Um...that's not child abuse. Hell, it isn't a crime.

really?

im sure they could be locked up for something, get a qualified psych to make something up. It is permenentaly altering their perspective. jsut BS it, money + psych = no more problem :>

really?

im sure they could be locked up for something, get a qualified psych to make something up. It is permenentaly altering their perspective. jsut BS it, money + psych = no more problem :>
Not really...

in a perfect world. children should be kept as unbiased as possible, with extreme cases of bias (total prejuding of a group) punished to the ones who caused it.


but this is Earth, so no :(

1. Speaking arabic does not make you arabic any more than speaking english makes you anglo-saxon. Arabs had an empire that spread arabic culture throught the middle east. One example is the Maronite Christians of Lebanon, who speak Arabic.

2. For all you people comparing the Bible to the Koran with regards to women... actually read the bible for yourself.

1st Corintians Chapter 7:3,4 "Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife to the husband. The Wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife."

3. A more practical way to evaluate these things is to look at a Christian country and compare it to an Islamic country. If you were a woman, where would you prefer to live? Yes, conservative Christians might have a different relationship with their wives than secular feminists, but the bible does not allow men to beat their wives for example, or to divorce them because they do not please him. The bible does not restrict women to the home, but instead provides examples of women being industrious both in and outside the home (Proverbs 31).

1. Speaking arabic does not make you arabic any more than speaking english makes you anglo-saxon. Arabs had an empire that spread arabic culture throught the middle east. One example is the Maronite Christians of Lebanon, who speak Arabic.

2. For all you people comparing the Bible to the Koran with regards to women... actually read the bible for yourself.

1st Corintians Chapter 7:3,4 "Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife to the husband. The Wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife."

3. A more practical way to evaluate these things is to look at a Christian country and compare it to an Islamic country. If you were a woman, where would you prefer to live? Yes, conservative Christians might have a different relationship with their wives than secular feminists, but the bible does not allow men to beat their wives for example, or to divorce them because they do not please him. The bible does not restrict women to the home, but instead provides examples of women being industrious both in and outside the home (Proverbs 31).


So the rule of thumb is not from Biblical sources then?

1. Speaking arabic does not make you arabic any more than speaking english makes you anglo-saxon. Arabs had an empire that spread arabic culture throught the middle east. One example is the Maronite Christians of Lebanon, who speak Arabic.

2. For all you people comparing the Bible to the Koran with regards to women... actually read the bible for yourself.

1st Corintians Chapter 7:3,4 "Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife to the husband. The Wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife."

3. A more practical way to evaluate these things is to look at a Christian country and compare it to an Islamic country. If you were a woman, where would you prefer to live? Yes, conservative Christians might have a different relationship with their wives than secular feminists, but the bible does not allow men to beat their wives for example, or to divorce them because they do not please him. The bible does not restrict women to the home, but instead provides examples of women being industrious both in and outside the home (Proverbs 31).

I could find you a range of quotes from the Qu'uran to say the exact same thing. I'm sure Keruvalia could provide a very in-depth analysis of the Qu'uran to reiterate the values of Islam that he believes in. Quotes =/= attitudes.

I am asking seriously how come, in all the time I have spent in the classroom, the only children who have ever said, "You're just a woman, you can't teach me anything." or "I don't have to do what you say, you're just a woman." are those of Muslim background. I mean, is it just a bad run on my part, that these are the main experiences with Islam that I have had? I will admit, I have been called a godless heathen by a kid before, because I told him he couldn't call all the kids in the class "betrayers of Christ" for fornicating. However, that was an isolated incident in the large number of Christian kids I have taught.

Or is it perhaps, not a "disrespect issue" as such, but more an issue of the more clearly defined gender roles in Islam-based cultures? I know that many Indigenous cultures hold to "women's business" taught by the women, to the women, and "men's business" taught to the men, by the men.

As a teacher, who is encountering more students from this culture, I would like some thoughts on the issue in order to adapt my planning and teaching/behaviour management strategies accordingly.

P.S. Please don't flame me, I'm really not trying to be racist.


The only student who ever out and out said that to me was an Albanian muslim, as white as white can be, and in the middle of my lesson. My answer to him, just as public, was, "But I'm the woman holding the red pen that writes down your grade, so you'd better learn to at least PRETEND that you respect what I say."

Amazing how immediate a problem-solver that was.

The only student who ever out and out said that to me was an Albanian muslim, as white as white can be, and in the middle of my lesson. My answer to him, just as public, was, "But I'm the woman holding the red pen that writes down your grade, so you'd better learn to at least PRETEND that you respect what I say."
Amazing how immediate a problem-solver that was.

Hmmm, I might try that. Especially as I do continuous assessment.

Yeah, I have been called racist at one point by a kid because he took issue with the suggestion that he do his homework. "You only hate me cause I'm black.". I gave him a long talk about bandying about the accusation of racist. Blonde hair, blue eyes, full-blood aboriginal grandfather. I learned my lesson. Don't judge a book by the cover.

Is this an inner city school you teaching in? If so then it's probably more to do with the standard challenge to teacher's authority that most classes will make. I think it's more to do with inner city culture than Islamic or Arabic culture.

I think you need to face the challenge head on and prove that you know you tonnes more than the student does. Which in essence you just need to keep asking why until he begins to stumble or leads back to an irrational answer. Then it basically becomes an insult slinging match, only you have to creative with your insults and not sink to swearing. When you win the class should have a little more respect for you, whereas the kid should be properly pissed off but silent. Leave him for a lesson or and them attempt to reconsolidate with him and bring him back into class discusions and the like.

But that only applies if I think what you're talking about is what I'm thinking about. I had a phyics teacher who was getting on slightly forgetful and subject to the same disrespect. And that is essentially how he kept his street cred. He also got a vandergraph out and played a game with the kid, in which he ended up fine, but got electrocuted a fair few times. Great way to demonstrate the superiority of your knowledge.

I am asking seriously how come, in all the time I have spent in the classroom, the only children who have ever said, "You're just a woman, you can't teach me anything." or "I don't have to do what you say, you're just a woman." are those of Muslim background. I mean, is it just a bad run on my part, that these are the main experiences with Islam that I have had? I will admit, I have been called a godless heathen by a kid before, because I told him he couldn't call all the kids in the class "betrayers of Christ" for fornicating. However, that was an isolated incident in the large number of Christian kids I have taught.

While I have heard some Muslims say this, they most certainly aren't the only ones saying it!

hell, I hear it more from the white anglo-saxon Preps and the Neo Nazis at my school more than I do from the muslims.

Yeah, I have been called racist at one point by a kid because he took issue with the suggestion that he do his homework. "You only hate me cause I'm black."

LOL, funny thing, too -- I'm half Sicilian-American, half Puerto Rican. I've never made a secret of this, but one kid was out the day I was chatting about Puerto Rican soul food -- pasteles and tostones.

I ask for someone to go to the office for me, and he is not the one I select. He bursts out with, "You hate me because I'm Puerto Rican!"

His neighbor turns and tells him, "Dumbass, SHE'S Puerto Rican!"

Beautiful. :-D

LOL, funny thing, too -- I'm half Sicilian-American, half Puerto Rican. I've never made a secret of this, but one kid was out the day I was chatting about Puerto Rican soul food -- pasteles and tostones.

I ask for someone to go to the office for me, and he is not the one I select. He bursts out with, "You hate me because I'm Puerto Rican!"

His neighbor turns and tells him, "Dumbass, SHE'S Puerto Rican!"

Beautiful. :-D

LMAO

I wish I could. Massive ones. With nails in them.

An excellent improvement upon said stickage.
Now only if we could implement this system into our social justice system.

An excellent improvement upon said stickage.
Now only if we could implement this system into our social justice system.
And Bush.

[QUOTE=Jello Biafra]Ah, they're Arab. Yes, unfortunately many of the Arab countries have discriminatory views about women, but I would say that it's only indirectly related to Islam.


The person who first posted said that the students were from Lebanon and Turkey. In Lebanon they MAY be Arabs, but not Turkey. While there are some Turks of Arab ancestry most are not.

So? The Christian bible says that man is superior to woman, and requires them to cover their hair in mass as well.
And how many "christian" women have you seen who actually DO this???

And how many "christian" women have you seen who actually DO this???
I suppose it depends on which hair you're referring to. :p