NationStates Jolt Archive

:headbang: Ok to get a few things strait

1 All of us DO NOT play with snakes
2 we are not crazy for speaking in tounges
3 we do not drink acid
4 we are NOW a very open church group in general


I'm sick of everyone looking at me like I'm crazy when I say I'm pentecostal. I go to a church where people sing and listen to a sermon just like all the other churches . . . we just have more fun. . . thats it really. If you have any question or whatever please ask and I will do my best to answer them.

:headbang: Ok to get a few things strait

1 All of us DO NOT play with snakes
2 we are not crazy for speaking in tounges
3 we do not drink acid
4 we are NOW a very open church group in general


I'm sick of everyone looking at me like I'm crazy when I say I'm pentecostal. I go to a church where people sing and listen to a sermon just like all the other churches . . . we just have more fun. . . thats it really. If you have any question or whatever please ask and I will do my best to answer them.
A lil more info would be nice.

But without all the snake-playing, tounge-talking and acid drinking what's the point?

A lil more info would be nice.

Wiki. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentecostal)

:headbang: Ok to get a few things strait

1 All of us DO NOT play with snakes
2 we are not crazy for speaking in tounges
3 we do not drink acid
4 we are NOW a very open church group in general


Well then you're boring.

Oh ... and it's straight ... a strait is a land bridge.

2 we are not crazy for speaking in tounges

I do beg to differ. Of all the insanity that is religion, that's one of the looniest aspects.

I do beg to differ. Of all the insanity that is religion, that's one of the looniest aspects.

Actually, the people who claim they can understand, translate, and interpret it is far loonier.

:headbang: Ok to get a few things strait

1 All of us DO NOT play with snakes
2 we are not crazy for speaking in tounges
3 we do not drink acid
4 we are NOW a very open church group in general


I'm sick of everyone looking at me like I'm crazy when I say I'm pentecostal. I go to a church where people sing and listen to a sermon just like all the other churches . . . we just have more fun. . . thats it really. If you have any question or whatever please ask and I will do my best to answer them.

Some of you play with snakes and you do speak in tongues, however.

And you are surprised that you aren't viewed "just like all the other churches"?

Actually, the people who claim they can understand, translate, and interpret it is far loonier.

You'll see that it's an aspect of the loony bin. You can't have a "tongue" without someone trying to decipher it, now, can you? Goes with the package. I'd be quite disappointed if they hadn't tried to analyse it, like an anal-retentive obsessive compulsive looking for signs in his stool.

:headbang: Ok to get a few things strait

1 All of us DO NOT play with snakes
2 we are not crazy for speaking in tounges
3 we do not drink acid
4 we are NOW a very open church group in general


I'm sick of everyone looking at me like I'm crazy when I say I'm pentecostal. I go to a church where people sing and listen to a sermon just like all the other churches . . . we just have more fun. . . thats it really. If you have any question or whatever please ask and I will do my best to answer them.

I don't think you're crazy. I don't have an opinion either way. There are alot of religions out there that some may find strange and some would think that having any religion at all makes you delusional. I'd just ignore any idiots who give you any funny looks.

I thought Pentacostal was just Christian. You play with snakes? Like ah, voodoo?

Wuh? When was the Pentecost religion ever insult here? :confused:

You can't have a "tongue" without someone trying to decipher it, now, can you? Goes with the package. I'd be quite disappointed if they hadn't tried to analyse it, like an anal-retentive obsessive compulsive looking for signs in his stool.

For some reason, this paragraph makes me feel tingly .... tongue ... package .... anal ....

For some reason, this paragraph makes me feel tingly .... tongue ... package .... anal ....
WAAAHH!!! I was trying to get that image OUT of my brain! Curse you! How dare you!

Shout to the Lord, all the Earth let us sing
Power and Majesty, praise to the King
Mountains bow down and seas will roar, at the sound....
Of... your NAAAAAAAAA-aaaaaaaaaaame!

Rumba-shucka-shucka!
Rooooooooo-mimimimi-siki-siki!

Yeah that's right, I went to a Penticostal Church as kid. I know all the shiz-it and can faint on que... it's a skill.

I've known some Pentecostals. They were in favor of religious rule in America. They openly advocated a theocracy. How common is that belief in your denomination?

I've known some Pentecostals. They were in favor of religious rule in America. They openly advocated a theocracy. How common is that belief in your denomination?
Very. They are also one of the few churchs to active preach politics and demand a 10% before tax tithe or a person earnings

:headbang: Ok to get a few things strait

1 All of us DO NOT play with snakes
2 we are not crazy for speaking in tounges
3 we do not drink acid
4 we are NOW a very open church group in general


I'm sick of everyone looking at me like I'm crazy when I say I'm pentecostal. I go to a church where people sing and listen to a sermon just like all the other churches . . . we just have more fun. . . thats it really. If you have any question or whatever please ask and I will do my best to answer them.

I've heard "some" Pentecostals speaking in tongues. It sounds like no language on Earth but more like epilalia. According to the Bible, it has to be an existing language and there has to be a translator. That said - You're just one more victim of that real but unpleasant fact that a radical minority will make the moderate majority look bad.

A lil more info would be nice.
No no, this starts off just right to make a volatile and humiliating thread. You know all you really need to know at this point - the posters will quite capably fill in the blanks.

No no, this starts off just right to make a volatile and humiliating thread. You know all you really need to know at this point - the posters will quite capably fill in the blanks.
Whenever I fill in the blanks, it always endswith me in a threesome. Sadly, I doubt this ends that way.

Whenever I fill in the blanks, it always endswith me in a threesome. Sadly, I doubt this ends that way.
MY experience with pentecosts says otherwise :eek:

I'm not even actually kidding. Thankfully i didn't get past the describing part with these lovely folk.

For some reason, this paragraph makes me feel tingly .... tongue ... package .... anal ....

Curses, my subliminal messaging discovered. Not foiled, though.

MY experience with pentecosts says otherwise :eek:

I'm not even actually kidding. Thankfully i didn't get past the describing part with these lovely folk.
I'm proud to have arse fucked a preacher's daughter... in the sanctuary...

I'm proud to have arse fucked a preacher's daughter... in the sanctuary...

Em.... wow.
You get 10 ga-gillion bonus points:p

Some of you play with snakes and you do speak in tongues, however.

And you are surprised that you aren't viewed "just like all the other churches"?

I view them like all the other churches.theres no real differences.

Em.... wow.
You get 10 ga-gillion bonus points:p
YES! Can I trade them in you a ticket to London?

I view them like all the other churches.theres no real differences.
Aside from mixing politics and religion, pop music and religion, and being at least two miles more crazy then most churches, but still less crazy then scientologists

:headbang: Ok to get a few things strait

1 All of us DO NOT play with snakes
2 we are not crazy for speaking in tounges
3 we do not drink acid
4 we are NOW a very open church group in general


I'm sick of everyone looking at me like I'm crazy when I say I'm pentecostal. I go to a church where people sing and listen to a sermon just like all the other churches . . . we just have more fun. . . thats it really. If you have any question or whatever please ask and I will do my best to answer them.
The church I use to attend styled itself "evangelical charismatic," which ( for those of you who don't know the terminology ) they believe in "spreading the gospel," and in "the gifts of the spirit."

From my perspective now, most of the "gifts of the spirit" are primarily for the purpose of building comittment to the church. If you're willing to stand up in public and "prophesy" or "speak in tongues," you'll be more isolated from society and more comitted to the church. This is in line with what the Bible says.

As for you, Sharpia, don't forget that the Bible says: "Know that the world will hate you because of me."

Aside from mixing politics and religion, pop music and religion, and being at least two miles more crazy then most churches, but still less crazy then scientologists
EVERYBODY is less crazy than scientologists, including Jeffry Dhamer and Osama bin Laden. :rolleyes:

EVERYBODY is less crazy than scientologists, including Jeffry Dhamer and Osama bin Laden. :rolleyes:
I know, Tom Cruise and his croonies make the Mormons look good

But without all the snake-playing, tounge-talking and acid drinking what's the point?


We do you speak in toungues and we do enjoy all the gifts of the spirit. We believe that God gives people gifts for example - speaking in tounges, interpretation of tounges, divine healing, things like that. The point is the Baptism of The Holy Spirit.

I'm proud to have arse fucked a preacher's daughter... in the sanctuary...

I will be impressed when you fuck a preacher's son in the sanctuary, or better yet the preacher.

Ok I mostly opened this thread to see how people truely react to me on large scale. I'm glad to see that some people understand that it is normal, but just a little different. Others of you just monopolized the conversation with talk about anal and other things. Really I was just trying to spread a blanket of understanding b/c I've had many people think I'm crazy b/c they watched some crazt documentary on Pentecostals from Kentucky who play with snakes and drink acid. Now on the point of the speaking in tounges, it's not a known language, it's a special spirirt language between you and God. That's it. When you are baptized in the spirit you recieve a gift or gifts, some are a simple as wisdom and joy, others are more complex like divine healing, or the "laying on hands." Everyone has different gifts in the church, but it's not like we run around schools and public buildings speaking in tounges and casting out demons - I forgot we do that too - casting out demons is a big one. Anymore questions I'll be happy to do my best in answering.

Do you play with ladders as well as snakes? And when you say acid are you referring to LSD?

I will be impressed when you fuck a preacher's son in the sanctuary, or better yet the preacher.


I'm sorry but how does this apply to the discussion?

Do you play with ladders as well as snakes? And when you say acid are you referring to LSD?


I don't play with snakes that's the one's who interpreted the Bible a little too literally. And it's steric acid not LSD that they drink. The playing with snakes and drinking steric acid are to prove God's protection. The actual reference to snake handling was when Paul was gathering fire wood and was bitten by an Asp and didn't die. It's just a really, really literal view most churches don't practice or believe in it. And the one time my family actually came across one of these churches we left and never went back.

I've heard "some" Pentecostals speaking in tongues. It sounds like no language on Earth but more like epilalia. According to the Bible, it has to be an existing language and there has to be a translator. That said - You're just one more victim of that real but unpleasant fact that a radical minority will make the moderate majority look bad.

firstly, the Bible doesn't specify that speaking in tongues means speaking an existing language; nor does it say that it is not an existing language. it's rather vague on that count. secondly, Sharpia, as tongues is a spiritual gift, it should come as no surprise that those who don't know the Holy Spirit react without comprehension to evidence of said Spirit. thirdly, as to the radical minority/moderate majority thing, well, Jesus was pretty radical, and if the Church meshes with mainstream society reasonably well, then there is something wrong.

I'm sorry but how does this apply to the discussion?


I'm proud to have arse fucked a preacher's daughter... in the sanctuary...


Ask and be answered.

Had a friend who converted to Pentecostal, never asked him much about his faith, frankly as an Atheist, I don't care. Unfortunately he picked up the most annoying habit of asking me several times weekly to go to church with him. Honestly, why is it the first thing they teach when you join a cult is how to recruit?

Well with being a Christian - not a cult - you are taught that Jesus is the only way to heaven therefore you feel a need to try and convert people so they don't "go to hell" But not everyone is like that. Most are yes, but not everyone. My guess would be that your friend is "concern for for soul" I'm sorry you feel like its a cult. He's probably just scared in reference to the church's views. Take it as a compliment.

Had a friend who converted to Pentecostal, never asked him much about his faith, frankly as an Atheist, I don't care. Unfortunately he picked up the most annoying habit of asking me several times weekly to go to church with him. Honestly, why is it the first thing they teach when you join a cult is how to recruit?

well, if someone believed he possessed the cure to a fatal disease, would you fault him for trying to spread the news? even if he were wrong, i think you would applaud the concern for his fellow man. same issue here; something believed to be of vital (in the truest sense of the word) importance, is not to be kept locked away within ones private life. that said, when someone of integrity learns the truth, i believe he is under some obligation to offer his findings to others; respect for the truth has become rather rare in our post-modern word, but do not fault others because you have no interest in finding out answers. more germane still, Christ (the founder of your friend's "cult") commanded his followers to "recruit". does any of that answer your question?

Religions are just large cults.

As for spreading his religion to save my soul. It's my soul, no one elses. Where it ends up concerns no one but me. I don't try to convert folk to atheism, I'd appreciate the same courtesy in return. Oddly ne'er get it.

Religions are just large cults.

As for spreading his religion to save my soul. It's my soul, no one elses. Where it ends up concerns no one but me. I don't try to convert folk to atheism, I'd appreciate the same courtesy in return. Oddly ne'er get it.

well, where your soul ends up is the concern of anyone who cares about you whatsoever. hopefully, your friend fits into that category. also, i think your claim that your soul is, in fact, only your own, needs to be bolstered by argument. to evidence your soul belonging solely to yourself, you'd have to have some understanding of truth about the universe...from a Christian perspective, the rights you have to your soul are superceded by your Creator's rights to your soul. so, to refute your evangelistic friends concern, you'd need to convince him that he was wrong about Christianity. if you haven't entered into such a dialogue with him, then don't blame him for his worldview.

As for you, Sharpia, don't forget that the Bible says: "Know that the world will hate you because of me."

this might be the most appropriate post in the thread...

Isn't this all a bit -- sudden?

So, if god owns my soul, why can my actions cause him to lose it? I mean, he's omnipotent right? All good and all that nonsense, so obviously he neither lacks the power nor will to prevent such a thing.

Actually most of my friends know better than to debate religion with me. They lose.

Religions are just large cults.

As for spreading his religion to save my soul. It's my soul, no one elses. Where it ends up concerns no one but me. I don't try to convert folk to atheism, I'd appreciate the same courtesy in return. Oddly ne'er get it.

Tell your friend that and then if he doesn't stop I'd say tell him you're not hanging around him until he stops. I can respect your view that religions are cults but could you give some support on your theory? Oh and he feels it's his concern too. If he doesn't try to convert you then he will feel guilty for not trying and he will feel that it's his fault that you are damned for eternity.

religion is pretty mental to me anyway so you're no more mental than any other god botherer as far as i'm concerned. i just heard today about the president of turkmenistan who declared himself president for life, has written 3holy texts, has decreed that all citizens of the country must read these texts, has set up a huge public address/video system in the capital which shows recordings of him reading the texts, wishes all citizens to worship him, and has said that reading his three texts three times will guarrantee a person a place in heaven. this guy sounds hilarious :p

apparently this story is pretty old. can't believe i hadn't heard of it before.

So, if god owns my soul, why can my actions cause him to lose it? I mean, he's omnipotent right? All good and all that nonsense, so obviously he neither lacks the power nor will to prevent such a thing.

Actually most of my friends know better than to debate religion with me. They lose.

well, you've entered into a common and interesting questioning of God's nature; how can He be fully Just and fully Merciful? how can a loving God send people to hell? well, for starters, He doesn't send them to hell, they go on their own volition. but how is this possible if God "owns" your soul? because owning is not the same as controlling; i believe God is omnipotent, but why would He create a world of automatons? Free Will is the answer to why God can lose your soul. because God is Love, He wants us to come to Him from our own choice/responsibility. it's not love to have a robot obey you; to have a man who could disobey and do evil and yet still obeys? that is infinitely superior. next logical question, "if God is love, why does a man who chooses evil have to go to Hell? wouldn't it be more loving to accept him into heaven anyway?" more loving, probably, but that ignores the fact that God is Just and Holy too...a man who is not holy has no business in the presence of a Holy God. so how does God solve this problem? answer: He sends His Son to die for sinful man. don't know if that answered your questions; i don't know if you were actually even looking for answers. but if you are interested in the truth, don't abandon this dialogue because it offends your sensibilities. follow it through to completion.

Ok to get a few things strait
Difficult when you confuse "correct" with "narrow body of water separating two land masses" right off the bat.
1 All of us DO NOT play with snakes
Okay, and not all Muslims beath themselves on the head until they're drenched in blood.
2 we are not crazy for speaking in tounges
Yes you are. Either that or you're just too revved up for English. Any linguist familiar with the ancient language in question (whatever it is they claim it to be: Aramaic, Phonecian, Old Hebrew, etc.) ever record this "speech" and attempt to make a legitimate translation? Didn't think so.
3 we do not drink acid
Frankly, that one's new to me, but it wouldn't surprise me considering the snake handlers.
4 we are NOW a very open church group in general
Now? What were you before? I hear the Neo-Nazis are more open now, too. Anything to increase the dues-paying membership.

Look, just be who you are and ignore those who would piss on your parade (especially me). It's a lot more dignified and certainly easier than feeling the need to constantly defend your faith against militant skeptics. Screw 'em. Believe what you like.

Tell your friend that and then if he doesn't stop I'd say tell him you're not hanging around him until he stops. I can respect your view that religions are cults but could you give some support on your theory? Oh and he feels it's his concern too. If he doesn't try to convert you then he will feel guilty for not trying and he will feel that it's his fault that you are damned for eternity.

let's try to stay away from assuming that his friend would respond with guilt or doubt or acts from feeling a burden. he may not be trying to convert him out of a sense of obligation, but rather out of a genuine love, in which case failure would not lead to guilt but sorrow.

Oh ... and it's straight ... a strait is a land bridge.
Uh...the Bering Strait, the Strait of Gibraltar and the Strait of Juan de Fuca are most certainly not land bridges. SOme straits may have at one time been land bridges, but the name for those ancient geographical constructs is...erm...land bridges.

let's try to stay away from assuming that his friend would respond with guilt or doubt or acts from feeling a burden. he may not be trying to convert him out of a sense of obligation, but rather out of a genuine love, in which case failure would not lead to guilt but sorrow.


Well if he swings that way he is sorta cute. Not normally too into blonds but still.


well, you've entered into a common and interesting questioning of God's nature; how can He be fully Just and fully Merciful? how can a loving God send people to hell? well, for starters, He doesn't send them to hell, they go on their own volition. but how is this possible if God "owns" your soul? because owning is not the same as controlling; i believe God is omnipotent, but why would He create a world of automatons? Free Will is the answer to why God can lose your soul. because God is Love, He wants us to come to Him from our own choice/responsibility. it's not love to have a robot obey you; to have a man who could disobey and do evil and yet still obeys? that is infinitely superior. next logical question, "if God is love, why does a man who chooses evil have to go to Hell? wouldn't it be more loving to accept him into heaven anyway?" more loving, probably, but that ignores the fact that God is Just and Holy too...a man who is not holy has no business in the presence of a Holy God. so how does God solve this problem? answer: He sends His Son to die for sinful man. don't know if that answered your questions; i don't know if you were actually even looking for answers. but if you are interested in the truth, don't abandon this dialogue because it offends your sensibilities. follow it through to completion.

Holy big block o' text! If god is all good and such, why does hell even exist? Why are there any actions that could ever seperate your soul from god? Why does my refusal to follow the dogmatic and narrow preachings of some old fart in a dress mean I'm damned to hellfire?

Yes you are. Either that or you're just too revved up for English. Any linguist familiar with the ancient language in question (whatever it is they claim it to be: Aramaic, Phonecian, Old Hebrew, etc.) ever record this "speech" and attempt to make a legitimate translation? Didn't think so.


there is no speech in an ancient language open to legitimate translation; the several passages concerning speaking in tongues (written primarily in Greek, though i believe a couple may be Aramaic) describe this speaking in tongues, they don't record it. it's not an issue of linguistics or historicity, but one of religion; it's a debatable issue even within Christianity, so try not and assume that you understand the issue.

I do beg to differ. Of all the insanity that is religion, that's one of the looniest aspects.

According to the bible, Tongues was given only to the 12 disciples so they could preach to those of any dialect. So, if you are a religious person it is blasphemous to act like you speak tongues.... Loony Folk.

Well if he swings that way he is sorta cute. Not normally too into blonds but still.


Holy big block o' text! If god is all good and such, why does hell even exist? Why are there any actions that could ever seperate your soul from god? Why does my refusal to follow the dogmatic and narrow preachings of some old fart in a dress mean I'm damned to hellfire?

to the first comment; i was not speaking of eros, erotic love, but rather philia, brotherly love, or even agape, i.e. sacrificial love. anyway, linguistic particularity, i'll move on. first question; i guess you didn't read my "holy big block o' text"...if God is good, then evil cannot exist in His presence. Holyness is incompatible with corruption/depravity. God is good, but also Just; doesn't some part of you want punishment for those responsible for the Holocaust? it is just to punish evil, and so God, being Just, must. the human soul can be seperated from God because in the beginning, it chose to disobey God and strike out on its own way. CS Lewis describes this process very well in "The Great Divorce" a quick, easy, insightful read. it's not the refusal to follow dogma that results in damnation; it's rather the sins you've committed, the fact that you run the opposite direction from a loving and good God.

According to the bible, Tongues was given only to the 12 disciples so they could preach to those of any dialect. So, if you are a religious person it is blasphemous to act like you speak tongues.... Loony Folk.

no no no. read the Bible, man. did paul say he could speak in tongues? yes. was he one of the 12? not even after Judas and the new 12th disciple was chosen. was he blasphemous? i certainly hope not. did he instruct the church in corinthians to speak in tongues? yes...was he instructing blasphemy? i don't think so...

So, that I'm a loving and good person doesn't matter because the loving and good god doesn't care? Can only the religious be good?

So, that I'm a loving and good person doesn't matter because the loving and good god doesn't care? Can only the religious be good?

religion has nothing (in my opinion) to do with being good. religion is about rules and regulations, and biblical christianity is not about such things. it is rather about faith in the Son of God, that He died to give you life. ok, you are a loving and good person? if you are as loving and good as Christ (who is the standard) then ok, you're in heaven. but, i know for my part i've made mistakes in the past. i've fallen short of God's standard, i've been prideful and willful. i have not always put my Creator's interests first...and as a Creature of His, i do have an obligation, which is more truly a privilege, to do so. God does care when you do good, but it not about whether you've done more good that evil. the fall is an all or nothing thing; you can't keep 6 out of 10 commandments and think it's all good. he who fails to keep the least little part of the law deserves condemnation, b/c he is not fully good. God doesn't want us to be mostly good; He is not "mostly good". He is fully good, and we can have no ideal relationship with Him unless fully good becomes an attribute of ours. enter Jesus Christ

:headbang: Ok to get a few things strait

1 All of us DO NOT play with snakes
2 we are not crazy for speaking in tounges
3 we do not drink acid
4 we are NOW a very open church group in general


I'm sick of everyone looking at me like I'm crazy when I say I'm pentecostal. I go to a church where people sing and listen to a sermon just like all the other churches . . . we just have more fun. . . thats it really. If you have any question or whatever please ask and I will do my best to answer them.
That is so BORING! You really should play with snakes and drink acid tho.. it improves your sex life.

religion has nothing (in my opinion) to do with being good. religion is about rules and regulations, and biblical christianity is not about such things. it is rather about faith in the Son of God, that He died to give you life. ok, you are a loving and good person? if you are as loving and good as Christ (who is the standard) then ok, you're in heaven. but, i know for my part i've made mistakes in the past. i've fallen short of God's standard, i've been prideful and willful. i have not always put my Creator's interests first...and as a Creature of His, i do have an obligation, which is more truly a privilege, to do so. God does care when you do good, but it not about whether you've done more good that evil. the fall is an all or nothing thing; you can't keep 6 out of 10 commandments and think it's all good. he who fails to keep the least little part of the law deserves condemnation, b/c he is not fully good. God doesn't want us to be mostly good; He is not "mostly good". He is fully good, and we can have no ideal relationship with Him unless fully good becomes an attribute of ours. enter Jesus Christ


So short answer, if you don't go to church you go to hell. Check. And god apparently doesn't care. Bang up job on recruting.

So short answer, if you don't go to church you go to hell. Check. And god apparently doesn't care. Bang up job on recruting.

no, going to church is not a requirement for heaven (did you even read my last comment?). and God does care; emphatically yes He does. that's the whole point of the Cross, that symbol of capital punishment you sometimes see around Christians' necks. If GOd doesn't care, why send His Son to die in the most excrutiating way ever devised for capital punishment? God = Love, therefore God cares about humanity. God = Just, therefore the Son of God was sent to die.

I tend to think that people who "speak in tongues" today have it wrong. During pentecost (when the church was started, shortly after Christ's ascension) the apostles and some others spoke in tongues in order to quickly spread the Gospel (Gospel == "good news").

When they spoke in tonges, it wasn't a bunch of jibber jabber that no one, even they, didn't understand. It was a language that EVERYONE understood, and they couldn't understand why. They asked amongst themselves (the crowds gathered round the "street preachers") "how is it we all understand this language?"

Some people speculate that this language was the language spoken before the Tower of Babel incident. An old language--the first. Some speculate this language may interface with our brains differently... bypassing the word to ideas translation and going straight to ideas.

That's my 2 cents.

BTW - I think that the people who "speak in tongues" today aren't crazy. They are just trying to do something that they think is right, and that may come more naturally when feeling very spiritual ("Filled with the Holy Spirit" as we Christian types say).

PS- Good work answering questions Archaic_Virtue.

no, going to church is not a requirement for heaven (did you even read my last comment?). and God does care; emphatically yes He does. that's the whole point of the Cross, that symbol of capital punishment you sometimes see around Christians' necks. If GOd doesn't care, why send His Son to die in the most excrutiating way ever devised for capital punishment? God = Love, therefore God cares about humanity. God = Just, therefore the Son of God was sent to die.

Dunno, he seems to be a twisted son of a bitch to me. Kill his own kid, tell a guy to kill his own child, send his own creations, which he knowingly created flawed to the inferno for being flawed.

I tend to think that people who "speak in tongues" today have it wrong. During pentecost (when the church was started, shortly after Christ's ascension) the apostles and some others spoke in tongues in order to quickly spread the Gospel (Gospel == "good news").


good word; i respect what you say. maybe i even agree with you. still, what about in Romans (i believe Ch. 5) when it mentions how the Holy Spirit intercedes with groans that words cannot express? sure, this could imply totally inaudible prayer, but then again it could be refering to a language that no human language can describe. secondly, what about in paul's letters (primarily to the Corinthians) when he instructs about speaking in tongues, about how it implies it is something from God and not simply a method of reaching other nationalities; within a particular, coine Greek-speaking church, what would be the use of some guy starting to babble in Aramaic, then translated back into Greek so the congregation could comprehend? just thoughts, i'm not entirely sure where i stand in understanding the gift of tongues, but i do think based on how it is listed with the other gifts, that it is an ongoing, current gift to the Church.

Dunno, he seems to be a twisted son of a bitch to me. Kill his own kid, tell a guy to kill his own child, send his own creations, which he knowingly created flawed to the inferno for being flawed.

the Father sent His Son (fully God himself--not sure if you want to get into the Trinity, it's perhaps inapplicable to this conversation) to die because he didn't want His creations in Hell. because modern man has very watered down understandings of Justice and Evil, it is sometimes hard to see why Sin = Death. but, telling a guy to kill his own child; it seems to me primarily an illustration, both of Abraham's priorities and God's providing of a sacrificial subsitute (remember God told Abraham not to kill Isaac, but to kill the ram He sent instead) which refers to Christ. and again, He doesn't send His creations to Hell; they choose to go there b/c they want nothing to do with God. it sounds like you yourself want nothing to do with God, so maybe you can understand; if your soul considers God your enemy, then it is fitting and proper for Him to let you abandon Him. how would you like a God who said "no, i'm not going to let you have a say. you're not free to do what is in your heart; you belong to Me, and I will not give you an opportunity to strike out on your own"?

Dunno, he seems to be a twisted son of a bitch to me. Kill his own kid, tell a guy to kill his own child, send his own creations, which he knowingly created flawed to the inferno for being flawed.

also, CS Lewis noted an interesting modern shift that might be pertinent here. ancient man considered himself to be judged by God; he was, in a sense, in the dock before the judge that was God (or the gods, whatever) and tried to justify himself before his judge. Modern man reckons himself the judge, and places God in the dock and demands Him to defend Himself. if there is a God, it is not up to Him to please us; it is up to us to please Him. if we were created, then the Creator is in charge of the standard by which we are judged. i think it might be beneficial if you attempted to step back from the post-modern, humanist tradition to which all of us modern men somewhat belong, and look at unadulterated truth. determine what is true not based on what society says, but on what creation says.

What is your bible but a creation of man. What is god but a violent and petty being? If I, a mere, deeply flawed, and not particularly intelligent mortal can think of these questions that apparently god could not or would not seek a better solution to, what does that say for the intelligence of god? And if he is intelligent what does it say of his benevolence? Why rain plagues upon Egypt when he could of snapped his fingers and sent his chosen to a paradise? Was it more fun to terrorize a nation? To slaughter innocents? Why fire and brimstone at Sodom and Gamorrah? Could he not spare a moment to manifest and ask that they change their ways? If he values free will so much why flood the entire world and kill everyone who used that will to do something he disapproved of? Is genocide better than education?

What is your bible but a creation of man. What is god but a violent and petty being? If I, a mere, deeply flawed, and not particularly intelligent mortal can think of these questions that apparently god could not or would not seek a better solution to, what does that say for the intelligence of god? And if he is intelligent what does it say of his benevolence? Why rain plagues upon Egypt when he could of snapped his fingers and sent his chosen to a paradise? Was it more fun to terrorize a nation? To slaughter innocents? Why fire and brimstone at Sodom and Gamorrah? Could he not spare a moment to manifest and ask that they change their ways?

whether or not the bible is simply a creation of man may not be the first step. i know for myself, i wasn't entirely sure of the veracity of the bible until i became a Christian; i believe in the Bible b/c i know Christ, i don't believe in Christ b/c i know the Bible. still, i'm not sure about your claim to have better answers to these questions. it is an interesting play between God's benevolence and His sovereignty, to be sure, just as it is hard to grasp the correlation between His sovereignty and man's Free Will. still, i ask you, how could Man be given the Free Will to choose his own path, and then choosing to not love God, be justly let into heaven without some kind of reparation being paid? God hates sin, because, interestingly enough, sin is completely opposed to Love (agape in the Greek, sacrificial love). a being of only goodness can do nothing else but reject evil. and God did send angels (some would even say a preincarnate Christ) to Sodom and Gomorrah, and the men there tried to rape them. what more would you ask? He said that if He found 5 righteous men, he would spare the city, the thousands of unrighteous. is that not merciful? furthermore, i think it not right to criticize a God you don't believe in; as an Atheist, what right have you to tell God how to behave? as a Christian, what right do i have to do the same thing? no right; again, we are creatures not the Creator.

I don't play with snakes that's the one's who interpreted the Bible a little too literally. And it's steric acid not LSD that they drink. The playing with snakes and drinking steric acid are to prove God's protection. The actual reference to snake handling was when Paul was gathering fire wood and was bitten by an Asp and didn't die. It's just a really, really literal view most churches don't practice or believe in it. And the one time my family actually came across one of these churches we left and never went back.
i think its from mark16

14Later Jesus appeared to the Eleven as they were eating; he rebuked them for their lack of faith and their stubborn refusal to believe those who had seen him after he had risen.

15He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. 16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well."

if thats not pentacostal, i dont know what is.

Why fire and brimstone at Sodom and Gonorrhea?


Just to create two new tribes enemies of Israel... That's why the two girls have no name in the bible...

But all these stories were told in Sumer times long before Moses (you know that guy who created the Unions - no work on Shabbat).

http://www.iunivers.org/
Where I learnt all.

oh, and i would never say God slaughters innocents. if man is sinful, and guilty of death, then none are innocent. if you, on the other hand, bring up the killing of unborn babies who apparently have done no wrong, i would be tempted to place the blame at the foot of the devil, or sinful man, rather than a good God who weeps at the spectre of death. some of your beliefs seem to imply an ignoring of the devil; there is a force of evil out there, too, he should i think be blamed for a bit of what you blame God for.

whether or not the bible is simply a creation of man may not be the first step. i know for myself, i wasn't entirely sure of the veracity of the bible until i became a Christian; i believe in the Bible b/c i know Christ, i don't believe in Christ b/c i know the Bible. still, i'm not sure about your claim to have better answers to these questions. it is an interesting play between God's benevolence and His sovereignty, to be sure, just as it is hard to grasp the correlation between His sovereignty and man's Free Will. still, i ask you, how could Man be given the Free Will to choose his own path, and then choosing to not love God, be justly let into heaven without some kind of reparation being paid? Love me or burn! Yes that's lovely, and not at all egomanical. God hates sin, because, interestingly enough, sin is completely opposed to Love (agape in the Greek, sacrificial love). Why did he create sin then? a being of only goodness can do nothing else but reject evil. and God did send angels (some would even say a preincarnate Christ) to Sodom and Gomorrah, and the men there tried to rape them. what more would you ask? He said that if He found 5 righteous men, he would spare the city, the thousands of unrighteous. is that not merciful? Considering he spared Lot after he offered his innocent daughters up to the gang to be raped? I question your god's definition of righteous. furthermore, i think it not right to criticize a God you don't believe in; as an Atheist, what right have you to tell God how to behave?I have the same right as all thinking beings, as all moral beings. To see power being abused and demand it stop. as a Christian, what right do i have to do the same thing? no right; again, we are creatures not the Creator. As a christian I would hope you would hold your own god to a higher standard than I would.

oh, and i would never say God slaughters innocents. if man is sinful, and guilty of death, then none are innocent. if you, on the other hand, bring up the killing of unborn babies who apparently have done no wrong, i would be tempted to place the blame at the foot of the devil, or sinful man, rather than a good God who weeps at the spectre of death. some of your beliefs seem to imply an ignoring of the devil; there is a force of evil out there, too, he should i think be blamed for a bit of what you blame God for.

Who created the devil? Who created evil man? Good cannot exist without evil. God couldn't claim to be good if he hadn't created a scapegoat to compare himself against, because if you look at god only, at his acts, at his depravity, you cannot come to the conclusion that he is good, or that he cares about anything but his own ego.

[QUOTE=Ashmoria]
15He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. 16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17[b]And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well." QUOTE]

yes i think this a more than relevant verse. i have no definite answers, but i would suggest that Christ often speaks metaphorically (eg, i am the Good Shepard and My sheep hear My voice, I am the Bread of Life, et al) and the serpent is often a reference to the devil, or his works. the deadly poison, maybe it refers to confronting the bitterness or devious plans of their opponents. then again, maybe we should take this literally. certainly the literal driving out of demons, healing, tongues thing i've come across. but the problem i have with pentecostals is that they seek out snakes to pick up, and drink poison to prove a point; we don't stab someone in the foot to have an opportunity to heal, nor do we pray that someone gets possessed by a demon so that we can cast it out. God gives us the gifts to show His power in the circumstances that we find ourselves in; we aren't supposed to toss about that power as a entertaining display

Love me or burn! Yes that's lovely, and not at all egomanical. Why did he create sin then? Considering he spared Lot after he offered his innocent daughters up to the gang to be raped? I question your god's definition of righteous.

Who created the devil? Who created evil man? Good cannot exist without evil. God couldn't claim to be good if he hadn't created a scapegoat to compare himself against, because if you look at god only, at his acts, at his depravity, you cannot come to the conclusion that he is good, or that he cares about anything but his own ego.

love me and burn would be egomanical coming from a mere man. but you can't (or rather, shouldn't) consider God's interests bound by human restrictions. God created the universe to glorify Himself; certainly egoistic by human standards, as is demanding we praise Him. but He is good, and He is worthy of all praise; every good and perfect gift comes from Him. He in a sense must love Himself, because He is all that is worthy of love. God didn't create sin, He created free will. Sin is not a creation, it is free will misapplied. God created Lucifer, who b/c of free will chose to become the devil. again, God created man with free will, and after he fell to the temptation to be like god, then he became evil. he spared lot, not because Lot was righteous enough, but because he was abrahams nephew and anyway, he had offered his daughters b/c of a misguided attempt to respect his visitors. my God's definition of righteousness is infinitely superior to any definition offered by one of us flawed men. good can exist without evil; just like light can exist without dark. sure, we wouldn't know the difference between light and dark without darkness, but the universe would be no less bright. i categorically oppose your last comment; if you look at God's actions and the oft-ignored goodness that is apparent throughout creation (think motherly love, a friend dying for a friend, ad nauseum) you can come to no other conclusion other than God is good. if, on the other hand, you look at the works of the devil and sinful man, and think they describe God, then you could be confused.

As a christian I would hope you would hold your own god to a higher standard than I would.


as a christian i am unable to hold my God to any kind of standard whatsoever. He is the standard.

love me and burn would be egomanical coming from a mere man. but you can't (or rather, shouldn't) consider God's interests bound by human restrictions. God created the universe to glorify Himself; certainly egoistic by human standards, as is demanding we praise Him. but He is good, and He is worthy of all praise; every good and perfect gift comes from Him. He in a sense must love Himself, because He is all that is worthy of love. God didn't create sin, He created free will. Sin is not a creation, it is free will misapplied. God created Lucifer, who b/c of free will chose to become the devil. again, God created man with free will, and after he fell to the temptation to be like god, then he became evil. he spared lot, not because Lot was righteous enough, but because he was abrahams nephew and anyway, he had offered his daughters b/c of a misguided attempt to respect his visitors. my God's definition of righteousness is infinitely superior to any definition offered by one of us flawed men. good can exist without evil; just like light can exist without dark. sure, we wouldn't know the difference between light and dark without darkness, but the universe would be no less bright. i categorically oppose your last comment; if you look at God's actions and the oft-ignored goodness that is apparent throughout creation (think motherly love, a friend dying for a friend, ad nauseum) you can come to no other conclusion other than God is good. if, on the other hand, you look at the works of the devil and sinful man, and think they describe God, then you could be confused.


What a complete cop-out. God's right because he is. Shame it always comes down to that when you start pointing out the gaping logical holes in the very concept of a benevolent god.

If he created the entire universe to celebrate his glory, why free will? Why punish free will? By your own admission he destroyed the world once, and innumerable lives because they exercised free will. Why did he not destroy Lucifer? Is he incapable? Or does he simply want to sit on high and tell his followers that he's better than the alternative?

That ain't much of a benevolent god, more like a malign petty thug.

If he created the entire universe to celebrate his glory, why free will? Why punish free will? By your own admission he destroyed the world once, and innumerable lives because they exercised free will. Why did he not destroy Lucifer? Is he incapable? Or does he simply want to sit on high and tell his followers that he's better than the alternative?

That ain't much of a benevolent god, more like a malign petty thug.

free will was created b/c God is love; how cheap of a world it would be where every creature was forced to obey Him. that wouldn't be love; with love necessarily comes the potential for rejection. also, God doesn't punish free will, He punished sin. an important distinction. He has never destroyed anyone b/c he or she exercised free will (except, in a particular way, Jesus) only b/c they sin. why did He not destroy Lucifer? i don't claim to know. could He? well, when Lucifer rebelled, he fell from heaven like a flash of lightning. that's how long he could resist God. but, perhaps Lucifer being allowed to survive was part of man having free will; they had to have a choice btwn good and evil, or else that free will would be an illusion. and of course he's the better alternative; is laying down your life for a friend better than lying for your own benefit? is serving another out of love better than demanding your own interests be served? i think it is clear which side, good or evil, is better. remember now, i'm not saying the God who you are imagining, of whom you have been taught by culture, is good. i'm saying that the True God, ruler of Heaven and Creator of all, is good. that's another important distinction. if God were not entirely good, i would not advocate His worship. but i'm about to have to go...if you have any more questions, feel free to email me at crt6@st-andrews.ac.uk (yes it is a british email but no i am not british.)

free will was created b/c God is love; how cheap of a world it would be where every creature was forced to obey Him. that wouldn't be love; with love necessarily comes the potential for rejection. also, God doesn't punish free will, He punished sin. an important distinction. He has never destroyed anyone b/c he or she exercised free will (except, in a particular way, Jesus) only b/c they sin. We are forced to worship him, because if we do not we go to hell. Using free will means we're damned for eternity, why give us the ability? why did He not destroy Lucifer? i don't claim to know. could He? well, when Lucifer rebelled, he fell from heaven like a flash of lightning. that's how long he could resist God. but, perhaps Lucifer being allowed to survive was part of man having free will; they had to have a choice btwn good and evil, or else that free will would be an illusion. and of course he's the better alternative; is laying down your life for a friend better than lying for your own benefit? is serving another out of love better than demanding your own interests be served? i think it is clear which side, good or evil, is better. remember now, i'm not saying the God who you are imagining, of whom you have been taught by culture, is good. i'm saying that the True God, ruler of Heaven and Creator of all, is good. that's another important distinction. if God were not entirely good, i would not advocate His worship. but i'm about to have to go...if you have any more questions, feel free to email me at crt6@st-andrews.ac.uk (yes it is a british email but no i am not british.)

1) God created free will.
2) God sees free will causes what he has defined as sin.
3) God punishes those who sin (exercise free will).
4) God destroys the world (including all those who didn't sin but spared Noah and his family who were sinners)
5) God again decides free will is a good thing.
6) Free will again leads to sin, god destroys two cities and spares a man who offered his own daughters up to be gang raped as he was righteous.
7) God destroys Lot's wife for having the gall to dare look back on all that she knew burning.
8) God creates a son, via a mortal woman, who he condemns to a life of persecution and death to "save us" all.
9) Jesus dies a horrific death, and god moves not a bit to comfort him, or to prove to his followers that he was anything but a crazy who got nailed to a cross.
10) God embraces free will, again, and is again amazed that people use free will, which is apparently to his mind a sin.

Glory to the benevolent one!:D

4) God destroys the world (including all those who didn't sin but spared Noah and his family who were sinners)
8) God creates a son, via a mortal woman, who he condemns to a life of persecution and death to "save us" all.
9) Jesus dies a horrific death, and god moves not a bit to comfort him, or to prove to his followers that he was anything but a crazy who got nailed to a cross.
10) God embraces free will, again, and is again amazed that people use free will, which is apparently to his mind a sin.


just a quick reply; where do you get that God spared people who didn't sin from the Flood? and Noah was accredited a righteous man, i think...
also, God didn't "create" a son...Jesus is the Eternal Son of God, fully God as the Father is fully God.
Jesus died a horrific death b/c God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) love man, and this was the only just way to save humanity from the hell that free will (a blessing, surely; would you rather be a robot or one who can choose?) sent them to.
God doesn't keep on embracing free will and getting surprised; He granted free will to man when He created mankind. now mankind has to deal with the ramifications of misusing that free will. Free Will is NOT a sin. no more than a car is a bad thing. if you use the car to gleefully run over pedestrians, this is a bad thing. (however, you can only say it's bad if you except the existence of good, and if you accept the existence of good and yet hate it still, are you yourself good?). ok, i've really got to go. email me if you wish, if not, God bless,

[

yes i think this a more than relevant verse. i have no definite answers, but i would suggest that Christ often speaks metaphorically (eg, i am the Good Shepard and My sheep hear My voice, I am the Bread of Life, et al) and the serpent is often a reference to the devil, or his works. the deadly poison, maybe it refers to confronting the bitterness or devious plans of their opponents. then again, maybe we should take this literally. certainly the literal driving out of demons, healing, tongues thing i've come across. but the problem i have with pentecostals is that they seek out snakes to pick up, and drink poison to prove a point; we don't stab someone in the foot to have an opportunity to heal, nor do we pray that someone gets possessed by a demon so that we can cast it out. God gives us the gifts to show His power in the circumstances that we find ourselves in; we aren't supposed to toss about that power as a entertaining display
there are whole chunks of the new testament that i dont know what to make of. too often its explained away by some sect or other but never to my complete satisfaction.

i do agree with you that jesus wasnt suggesting making the handling of snakes into a religious test or some kind of side show.

let's try to stay away from assuming that his friend would respond with guilt or doubt or acts from feeling a burden. he may not be trying to convert him out of a sense of obligation, but rather out of a genuine love, in which case failure would not lead to guilt but sorrow.

Yea if you read my earlier that was my point but his friend should back off when asked

Ok yes i made a grammatical error get over it - no one is perfect. now the point i was TRYING to make was - look don't say shit about something you don't know anything about oh and yea for all of you who think that speaking in tounges is an actual worldly language go back and read my earlier posts on the subject it's a spiritual language between you and God. Also faking the 'fainting thing' is your fault you're supposed to be reseptive to it not fake it. Anyway i was just trying to clear up some untruths but since everyone took to bashing the subject instead of asking questions and learning fuck you guys i'm done if you do have a question - juliepixie2003@yahoo.com - feel free to ask. the rest of you can just go fuck yourselves. :mp5: :upyours:

I'm proud to have arse fucked a preacher's daughter... in the sanctuary...
.... a "been there, washed the t-shirt" kind of situation? :D

I will be impressed when you fuck a preacher's son in the sanctuary, or better yet the preacher.
Well that obviously happens too.
As for f*cking the preacher, well, it's more about being f*cked by .. being administered to instead of doing the administering. All kinda falls in line with certain authoritative functions.

Ok, then.. where's your god now?!?!?!!?!?!?!?! I'm sorry.. but.. heh.

So, if god owns my soul, why can my actions cause him to lose it? I mean, he's omnipotent right? All good and all that nonsense, so obviously he neither lacks the power nor will to prevent such a thing.

Actually most of my friends know better than to debate religion with me. They lose.
Have you met Bruarong yet, then? That will likely develop interestingly.

That is so BORING! You really should play with snakes and drink acid tho.. it improves your sex life.
Yes yes but it obviously impairs your typing skills :p

Yes yes but it obviously impairs your typing skills :p
hehehe i wunder..

That ain't much of a benevolent god, more like a malign petty thug.Excellent choice of terms. *bows*

Ok yes i made a grammatical error get over it - no one is perfect. now the point i was TRYING to make was - look don't say shit about something you don't know anything about oh and yea for all of you who think that speaking in tounges is an actual worldly language go back and read my earlier posts on the subject it's a spiritual language between you and God. Also faking the 'fainting thing' is your fault you're supposed to be reseptive to it not fake it. Anyway i was just trying to clear up some untruths but since everyone took to bashing the subject instead of asking questions and learning fuck you guys i'm done if you do have a question - juliepixie2003@yahoo.com - feel free to ask. the rest of you can just go fuck yourselves. :mp5: :upyours:

That Christian love can't help but shine.

That Christian love can't help but shine.


Yea yea I know all that I like freedom of speech and I enjoy insightful banter, but I don't feel the need to continue with the tread because people went way off topic. It's pointless. But like I said if there are any questions or concerns people can just e-mail me.