NationStates Jolt Archive

Ok, so I am doing this new bible lesson thing in part to help me to be a better christian. So far this lesson plan i am using from www.biblestudylessons.com is pretty good. However, there are some things I wonder about.

For example I am on lesson four now, and in the intro it says "Some members might not pray properly, so their prayers are not even answered"
I didn't think there was a "right" way to pray. That comment kind of has me skeptical of this lesson.

Also, it makes note, in lesson 2, that we should try to follow Paul's example. Now I know he was a good guy and all, but shouldn't we follow Christ's example instead? Plus it gives Phillipians 3:17 and 4:9, which say something along the lines that Paul is saying that we should follow him, because he more or less knows how to live the life... Isn't that a little...prideful?

Any help would be greatly appreciated :D

i would think that variations on the lords prayer is the "best" way to pray.

perhaps they were thinking of people who pray for "a new pony" or for the school football team to win or for their girlfriend to come back to them. that kind of confusing god with santa claus seems to be popular with a certain shallow kind of person.

i would think that variations on the lords prayer is the "best" way to pray.

perhaps they were thinking of people who pray for "a new pony" or for the school football team to win or for their girlfriend to come back to them. that kind of confusing god with santa claus seems to be popular with a certain shallow kind of person.


Ahh...that is a good way to look at it.

If you are into bible studies, I seriously recommend you find the gospel of Judas somewhere and read it.
It gives a totally different point of view of the story of Christ.

how did you decide to use this bible study? there are so very many resources out there.

Blasphemer.

Christiano-fascist :D

What it means is if god didn't answer your prayers, something is wrong with you and the way you pray.


It's a way to disclaim from god any responcibility to answer your prayers, whatever they may be.

I stick by my saying: you should read the gospel of Judas.
It will show you that faith isn't black and white, and that you shouldn't just do wath other people tell you to (or pray how they tell you to) there are many ways to interpret the story of Jesus.

Ok, so I am doing this new bible lesson thing in part to help me to be a better christian. So far this lesson plan i am using from www.biblestudylessons.com is pretty good. However, there are some things I wonder about.

For example I am on lesson four now, and in the intro it says "Some members might not pray properly, so their prayers are not even answered"
I didn't think there was a "right" way to pray. That comment kind of has me skeptical of this lesson.

Also, it makes note, in lesson 2, that we should try to follow Paul's example. Now I know he was a good guy and all, but shouldn't we follow Christ's example instead? Plus it gives Phillipians 3:17 and 4:9, which say something along the lines that Paul is saying that we should follow him, because he more or less knows how to live the life... Isn't that a little...prideful?

Any help would be greatly appreciated :D


I would say that any "Bible lesson" or sermon should be seen as a possible guide, but should be viewed through the guidance you receive directly from God. If something doesn't seem "right" to you, pray over it and think about it. Ask God for guidance on it. Talk to other people about it. And eventually, you will come to your own position on it, which *hopefully* is that which God wanted you to reach.

I would agree that we should follow the example of Christ. One who says we should follow the example of Paul most likely thinks that he was a good example of following Christ. In some things, I agree. In others, not so much. I view Paul much as I would any preacher or theologian, albeit one closer to the source than anyone more modern.

As for "not praying properly", I would agree that praying for a pony or something like that isn't appropriate. But I don't think there is a "right" way to pray. And I don't think that prayers made in earnest go unanswered, although we may not get the answers we like, or get them in as direct a method as we may like.

how did you decide to use this bible study? there are so very many resources out there.


It was recommended by a friend. So i took his word.

I would say that any "Bible lesson" or sermon should be seen as a possible guide, but should be viewed through the guidance you receive directly from God. If something doesn't seem "right" to you, pray over it and think about it. Ask God for guidance on it. Talk to other people about it. And eventually, you will come to your own position on it, which *hopefully* is that which God wanted you to reach.

I would agree that we should follow the example of Christ. One who says we should follow the example of Paul most likely thinks that he was a good example of following Christ. In some things, I agree. In others, not so much. I view Paul much as I would any preacher or theologian, albeit one closer to the source than anyone more modern.

As for "not praying properly", I would agree that praying for a pony or something like that isn't appropriate. But I don't think there is a "right" way to pray. And I don't think that prayers made in earnest go unanswered, although we may not get the answers we like, or get them in as direct a method as we may like.

Thanks, Ill gladly use your advice, and see where that takes me.

Ok, so I am doing this new bible lesson thing in part to help me to be a better christian. So far this lesson plan i am using from www.biblestudylessons.com is pretty good. However, there are some things I wonder about.

For example I am on lesson four now, and in the intro it says "Some members might not pray properly, so their prayers are not even answered"
I didn't think there was a "right" way to pray. That comment kind of has me skeptical of this lesson.

Also, it makes note, in lesson 2, that we should try to follow Paul's example. Now I know he was a good guy and all, but shouldn't we follow Christ's example instead? Plus it gives Phillipians 3:17 and 4:9, which say something along the lines that Paul is saying that we should follow him, because he more or less knows how to live the life... Isn't that a little...prideful?

Any help would be greatly appreciated :D

Well I'm not sure I'd describe myself as a really "mature Christian"... I think I have to be older to really be that, (*thinks of her grandmother*) but I'd like a shot at your questions anyway.

First, anything off the internet - and well, pretty much anywhere else too - should be taken with at least somewhat of a critical eye. Just because your biblestudy guide says so, don't make it so, necessarily. I've even heard pastors say a couple just off-the-wall things and have to come back and take it back the next week.

As to praying "wrong" I'm not sure there really is quite such a thing. I really think that God answers those "bad" checklist-for-God prayers too, though. He just answers with a resounding "no." As previously mentioned, patterning after the Lord's Prayer is generally a good way to go... as are patterning after the Psalms, and any number of other things. It was something of a revelation to me some years ago that God even wants us to complain to him... look at some of the psalms... David seriously gets whiney, and depressed, and God still answers those prayers. He even prays for vengance and death for his enemies. I think we have a lot more freedom in praying than most people do though. I don't see anything wrong with praying for our team to win... as long as you can accept a "no" answer sometimes too. I think God still cares about stuff like that; he cares about anything we care about, so there's no reason we can't pray about it. That's my take.

As to modelling our lives after Paul, I think Paul would have been the first one to say he wasn't a perfect example. Isn't there someplace where he says he is the "first among sinners"? Paul wasn't prideful. I recently heard a sermon which implied that becuase Paul had a hard time trusting God's sovreignty with saving people, that we should too, and therefore we should go out and witness more. Say WHAT? I about had puppies. Paul may have had issues trusting God, but Jesus sure didn't, and I prefer the latter, thanks. That said, MOSTLY, it is good to model yourself after Paul. Or at least to listen to what he said to be like.

Alright alright.

Hey, it kept your thread on the first page, didn't it? Hell, you should thank us.

BOW DOWN TO YOUR MASTERS!!

*blinks*

.......

Ahem, sorry.

...Monkey...:rolleyes:

Anyway, to answer your question, when studying the gospels...no one can give advice other than yourself. One must make up their own mind whenever they are deciphering meaning from the Good Book.

And there's no way to pray "wrong"...it's kinda like saying you can breathe wrong.

What it means is if god didn't answer your prayers, something is wrong with you and the way you pray.


It's a way to disclaim from god any responcibility to answer your prayers, whatever they may be.


No.

If you pray seeking material things, you are not praying properly.
If you pray while trying to figure out whether you need to pck up any ingredients for dinner tonight, you're not praying properly.

Prayer should be focused, heartfelt, and based on improving one's spiritual health.

Your cynicism is not at all helpful. Why are you interested in answering questions about bible study when you obviously do not feel that prayer, religion and study have any merit?

-snip-.


Very intresting indeed. I am glad i decided to ask these questions. the responses that pertain to the questions are very filling. Thanks be to ye. :p

It's a MIRACLE! The thread hijack has disappeared!
;)

Not that I'm either a Christian or mature, but I think Ashmoria has a good point on the "Selfish request" thing.

What this all boils down to is the question of what prayer is. Some people see it as a request list lottery; a way to simply stick some input in and hope for the best at the end. I don't think that's what it's about, but then again, I don't think that's what God is about either.

Prayer is generally a number of things. For Christians, prayer involves communication, and as such, it is multidirectional. If the focus is on the self, then you're drowning out any other parties in the conversation, and that is true in more or less any form of meditative spirituality. It should be, first and foremost, an engagement and interaction with divinity, just like talking to other people isn't about either completely throwing aside your own problems, since they might be worth having a talk about every now and them, or focusing singly on them, not letting other people get a word in edgeways.

There is another sense in which prayer isn't just a casual chat though. A lot of Christians have this idea that they can kind of turn God on and off by simply saying "Dear God" and "Amen" at the appropriate times. Certainly from an outside source, and I know quite a few Christians who agree, God is around pretty much all the time. (I say "pretty much" since I've got the feeling there are occasions when not all of him is quite paying attention, which is fair enough; faced with me on the other end, I'd phase in and out too.)

The thing people call Prayer isn't really the talking at all. You can sit and mull things over with him whenever you feel like it. Instead, the actual act of Prayer is when you set aside a little time from your busy schedule to devote explicitly to that interaction. And the way I see it, it should be something to be enjoyed in itself. Take your time about it! It's not about rushing through your worries or asking for a quick forgiveness.

This notion of seeking forgiveness for every little struggle, while of worth as something to note (note the Lord's prayer; 4 words sum the whole lot up with quite some eloquence), has dominated the Christian message to such a degree that they can't really enjoy just being in God's presence any more. It's all about "I'm sorry! I'm sorry! I'm not worthy!", and that is all their prayer becomes in the end. Oh, that and the cosmic wishlist. It's no wonder so many treat it as a little 2 minute thing before bedtime just to get it done and dusted.

In this outsider's opinion, Prayer should be both simply and wonderfully time spent appreciating and enjoying God's company. With that in mind, any questions on procedure or formality can be easily taken care of.

Someone's prayers were answered.

It's a MIRACLE! The thread hijack has disappeared!
;)


i <3 you :fluffle:

It's a MIRACLE! The thread hijack has disappeared!
;)

*GASP!* Where-ever did it go!? *Looks to the trash bin* Oh....

Moving right along....

God answers all prayers. He might not answer in the way you'd like or as soon as you'd like, but He'll answer them. Sooner or later. It is important, of course, to avoid ticking God off by asking to, say, win the Lottery. Instead of bleeding selfishness all over, your prayers should be selfless. Outside of that, how you pray is, and should be, utterly irrelevant.

I apologise. I got carried away :(

As for the OP, I don't think anyone can tell you what the 'correct' way to pray is- the connection you have with your god is your own and no one elses; if you feel happy with it then that is all that matters.

:)

It's a MIRACLE! The thread hijack has disappeared!
;)
god does work in mysterious ways

Not that I'm either a Christian or mature, but I think Ashmoria has a good point on the "Selfish request" thing.

What this all boils down to is the question of what prayer is. Some people see it as a request list lottery; a way to simply stick some input in and hope for the best at the end. I don't think that's what it's about, but then again, I don't think that's what God is about either.

Prayer is generally a number of things. For Christians, prayer involves communication, and as such, it is multidirectional. If the focus is on the self, then you're drowning out any other parties in the conversation, and that is true in more or less any form of meditative spirituality. It should be, first and foremost, an engagement and interaction with divinity, just like talking to other people isn't about either completely throwing aside your own problems, since they might be worth having a talk about every now and them, or focusing singly on them, not letting other people get a word in edgeways.

There is another sense in which prayer isn't just a casual chat though. A lot of Christians have this idea that they can kind of turn God on and off by simply saying "Dear God" and "Amen" at the appropriate times. Certainly from an outside source, and I know quite a few Christians who agree, God is around pretty much all the time. (I say "pretty much" since I've got the feeling there are occasions when not all of him is quite paying attention, which is fair enough; faced with me on the other end, I'd phase in and out too.)

The thing people call Prayer isn't really the talking at all. You can sit and mull things over with him whenever you feel like it. Instead, the actual act of Prayer is when you set aside a little time from your busy schedule to devote explicitly to that interaction. And the way I see it, it should be something to be enjoyed in itself. Take your time about it! It's not about rushing through your worries or asking for a quick forgiveness.

This notion of seeking forgiveness for every little struggle, while of worth as something to note (note the Lord's prayer; 4 words sum the whole lot up with quite some eloquence), has dominated the Christian message to such a degree that they can't really enjoy just being in God's presence any more. It's all about "I'm sorry! I'm sorry! I'm not worthy!", and that is all their prayer becomes in the end. Oh, that and the cosmic wishlist. It's no wonder so many treat it as a little 2 minute thing before bedtime just to get it done and dusted.

In this outsider's opinion, Prayer should be both simply and wonderfully time spent appreciating and enjoying God's company. With that in mind, any questions on procedure or formality can be easily taken care of.


You know, for an outsider, you seem to have a (what i consider) positive, Christian like attitude.

You know, for an outsider, you seem to have a (what i consider) positive, Christian like attitude.

Most religions are virtually identical. The most noticable variance is in the commentary.

To expand: It should not be surprising that non-Christians hold views on prayer applicable to Christian prayer. One could pick up pointers on Christian prayer from religions other than Islam and Judaism, as well (just remember that it isn't 'good Christian' prayer to start with 'Hail Buddha!').

Most religions are virtually identical. The most noticable variance is in the commentary.


I will agree that there are many similarities in the basic aspects of religions. But, there are major differences too.

I will agree that there are many similarities in the basic aspects of religions. But, there are major differences too.

At the core, not really. Being good to each other, Love, Peace, Sharing/Charity..... all the same.

christianity is more of faith than religon we as humans follow religon because it is easier to follow rules than to be guided by your soul. im a christan and when i read the Bible i take it for the true word. the thing is that the NT has a guide line on how to be a christain but we have to decide this boils down from when adam and eve ate the tree of good and evil thus giving them almost self consens
(i cant spell) thats in the beginning of the Bible, since then GOD nor the devil can control us we must decide who we let our masters be GOD or Lucifer.

You know, for an outsider, you seem to have a (what i consider) positive, Christian like attitude.
Ever chatted to some of the Baha'i guys? If it weren't for the difference in the (incredibly wise, if a little cryptic) scripture they quoted, they'd have positive, Christian-like attitudes too. Same with most Hindu, Buddhist and Jewish teachers.

Just because I don't take labels doesn't mean I'm not searching for the same thing as those who do. :)

I will agree that there are many similarities in the basic aspects of religions. But, there are major differences too.

The main difference is this:

Check one:
Non-Believers Go to Hell/Unpleasant place:
[ ] Yes
[ ] No
[ ] Katganistan ;)

where would you belive you would go?
read corinthians this book has some of the ground work for christain life
and compare this to your own way of living

The main difference is this:

Check one:
Non-Believers Go to Hell/Unpleasant place:
[ ] Yes
[ ] No
[X] Katganistan ;)
And that, one could argue, has no basis whatsoever in the spiritual aspect of their faith but rather depends on the more obscure, less verifiable mythological aspect.

where would you belive you would go?
The Circle.


read corinthians this book has some of the ground work for christain life
and compare this to your own way of living

Like I said, all religions (and non deist philosophies) are very similar, if not identical at the base level.

We can all agree that religons are similer so there must be a prevaling force around us.

The main difference is this:

Check one:
Non-Believers Go to Hell/Unpleasant place:
[ ] Yes
[ ] No
[ ] Katganistan ;)


Well I think it is more than just Heaven or Hell, as you would suggest. In my faith, I don't care about the "rewards" in heaven, nor do i fear hell. All I know is that I am living this life as best I can, with hopes that after death I will be with My God forever. That's all it really boils down to.

<ssssSNIP>

For those people who see prayer as a "to do" list for God or a request lottery, they may not be praying at all, so much as stating a list of desires... or they may be praying, and be sorely disappointed at the end when lots of the answers are "no" or "wait".

Ultimately, prayer isn't really about us at all. It's about God. It's about giving God glory, honor, thanks and praise. It's about trusting God. It's about leaning on God instead of trying to go at life alone. It's about peace.

Prayer also, isn't a periodic thing. Someplace or other it says "pray without ceasing". I used to think that was a bit weird... I mean, if you pray without ceasing, how can you get anything else done? Ultimately though, it means more what you said... you can't turn God on and off with a prayer switch. (Incidentally, it's not GOD that's doing hte phasing, that'd be you. God doesn't change or move. And he doesn't turn off and on at HIS whim any more than yours.) In some sense, all of life can be a non-verbal prayer. If you eat, drink and sleep to the glory of God, it's prayer. And you don't even have to be a monk to do that.

Finally, regarding seeking forgiveness, we ought to do so for everything we do wrong... but if we did so specifically for each item, we'd never get a shot at anything else. And we'd be really in trouble, becuase I'm sure I don't know half the things I do wrong are even wrong! Of course, we can't just say "forgive me" and blur over it without repenting, but dwelling on it a long time isn't exactly the solution either. If we take the Lord's prayer as a guide, it should be... oh, maybe 1/10th of prayer, at most. And it has just as much emphasis on forgiving as on being forgiven, too.

And really finally, prayer should not be confused with meditation.

true prayer is used to strengthen your FAITH no religon because people confuse them both so the right prayer would be the same for any religon because it is used to strengthen your belief and make you spirituallty stronger

for a different prayer experience you might want to look at the rosary

yeah, its a catholic thing that you would never do but the form of it might interest you.

in essence, while you pray a patterned prayer (in the rosary its the hail mary over and over again with the lords prayer and a couple others stuck in here and there) you meditate on the life of jesus. it focuses your mind on certain aspects of religion that get overlooked most days

instead of chatting with god, you think about what it was like for jesus to know he would be betrayed, to suffer the humiliations on the way to his death and to die so horribly. or focus on the glory of the resurrection, the assention, the coming of the holy spirit to the apostles.

its more of a meditation than a communication. i think it has a place in any christians life. not the rosary necessarily since it is focused on mary and protestants arent all that into mary, but the meditation part.

Well I think it is more than just Heaven or Hell, as you would suggest. In my faith, I don't care about the "rewards" in heaven, nor do i fear hell. All I know is that I am living this life as best I can, with hopes that after death I will be with My God forever. That's all it really boils down to.

I would argue that a good portion of the "rewards" in heaven you don't care about ARE being with God forever... I mean, I can't think of anything better than that, can you?

And that, one could argue, has no basis whatsoever in the spiritual aspect of their faith but rather depends on the more obscure, less verifiable mythological aspect.

My point, exactly. (Although many will say that it is an intrinsic part of their faith. Which is why they pray for you, &c., &c.)

for a different prayer experience you might want to look at the rosary

yeah, its a catholic thing that you would never do but the form of it might interest you.

in essence, while you pray a patterned prayer (in the rosary its the hail mary over and over again with the lords prayer and a couple others stuck in here and there) you meditate on the life of jesus. it focuses your mind on certain aspects of religion that get overlooked most days

instead of chatting with god, you think about what it was like for jesus to know he would be betrayed, to suffer the humiliations on the way to his death and to die so horribly. or focus on the glory of the resurrection, the assention, the coming of the holy spirit to the apostles.

its more of a meditation than a communication. i think it has a place in any christians life. not the rosary necessarily since it is focused on mary and protestants arent all that into mary, but the meditation part.
you see Jesus had to die for our sins and we cannot just focus on Jesus's suffering because he is GOD's son who sacrificed himself in order to save us.
it would do no justice to him by saying the rosary

And really finally, prayer should not be confused with meditation.
Well, in the sense that it's the discussion with the powers that be, the Christian Prayer and the Buddhist Meditation are more similar than they are different. Meditation and prayer as general terms are separate things, but within some forms of spirituality meditation is performed through allowing the ultimate spirit to blend with the meditator's and the two to think and engage together; sounds familiar, ne?

I would argue that a good portion of the "rewards" in heaven you don't care about ARE being with God forever... I mean, I can't think of anything better than that, can you?

Oh, let me clarify. When I hear people talk of the rewards they usually mean:
The mansion, streets of gold, ocean of crystal(i think thats it), a crown, no pain nor tears nor suffering, and feasting at the table with the 'saints'. My reward, I know, is to be with in God's presence, and none of the other crap matters to me.

you see Jesus had to die for our sins and we cannot just focus on Jesus's suffering because he is GOD's son who sacrificed himself in order to save us.
it would do no justice to him by saying the rosary

Huh? :confused: Saying the rosary is just another method of praying. Thats all.

Oh, let me clarify. When I hear people talk of the rewards they usually mean:
The mansion, streets of gold, ocean of crystal(i think thats it), a crown, no pain nor tears nor suffering, and feasting at the table with the 'saints'. My reward, I know, is to be with in God's presence, and none of the other crap matters to me.
thats just a way of descibing heaven for us, heaven truely is unimaginable we have way too limited of a mind to accept what heaven really is

you see Jesus had to die for our sins and we cannot just focus on Jesus's suffering because he is GOD's son who sacrificed himself in order to save us.
it would do no justice to him by saying the rosary

*looks confused* I probably agree with you, but I have NO idea what you're saying.

Mary's all very well and good, but she's not God, and deifying her isn't the way to go. Acts says the christians devoted themselves to "prayer and meditation" so I agree meditation is good, but meditating focusing on Mary instead of God isn't much better than meditating focusing on yourself instead of God. Jesus IS God, so we're good with Him, but anyone else, and I've got a problem.

thats just a way of descibing heaven for us, heaven truely is unimaginable we have way too limited of a mind to accept what heaven really is


Well, like I said, I don't care that much about what heaven looks like or whats there. I just want to be with my God. Thats all, nothing else.

*looks confused* I probably agree with you, but I have NO idea what you're saying.

Mary's all very well and good, but she's not God, and deifying her isn't the way to go. Acts says the christians devoted themselves to "prayer and meditation" so I agree meditation is good, but meditating focusing on Mary instead of God isn't much better than meditating focusing on yourself instead of God. Jesus IS God, so we're good with Him, but anyone else, and I've got a problem.
what i mean is that when you say a prayer you are talking with GOD who will comfort you and show you the way only if you let him. We cannot directly talk with GOD because we are unclean and so when we pray an angel takes our prayer before GOD

Oh, let me clarify. When I hear people talk of the rewards they usually mean:
The mansion, streets of gold, ocean of crystal(i think thats it), a crown, no pain nor tears nor suffering, and feasting at the table with the 'saints'. My reward, I know, is to be with in God's presence, and none of the other crap matters to me.

Ahh. That makes more sense... and I'd agree with you, but... y'know, I don't think I do. I just sat and watched my grandma die a few days ago. She was looking forward most of all to being with "her Jesus" as she said... but she was also looking forward to not being in pain anymore. I can't see it being much fun being in pain, tears and suffering, and being with God. Similarly, since God says the rest of it is a good reward, I think I'll take his word for it, and look forward to it. I'm human. I like my comforts, and ain't nothing wrong with it, apparently. I just kinda consider that part and parcel of the being-with part, too though.

what i mean is that when you say a prayer you are talking with GOD who will comfort you and show you the way only if you let him. We cannot directly talk with GOD because we are unclean and so when we pray an angel takes our prayer before GOD


Verse please. What denom are you? I thought Jesus was our mediator, He cleanses us that we may have direct contact to God.

you see Jesus had to die for our sins and we cannot just focus on Jesus's suffering because he is GOD's son who sacrificed himself in order to save us.
it would do no justice to him by saying the rosary
you dont JUST focus on that. you focus on it now and then. you break up your usual "chat with god" kind of prayer with a meditation on just how big a sacrifice jesus made. its not like it was EASY.

im not suggesting that a non catholic should pray the rosary. im suggesting that meditating on the life of jesus now and then is a good thing.

Ahh. That makes more sense... and I'd agree with you, but... y'know, I don't think I do. I just sat and watched my grandma die a few days ago. She was looking forward most of all to being with "her Jesus" as she said... but she was also looking forward to not being in pain anymore. I can't see it being much fun being in pain, tears and suffering, and being with God. Similarly, since God says the rest of it is a good reward, I think I'll take his word for it, and look forward to it. I'm human. I like my comforts, and ain't nothing wrong with it, apparently. I just kinda consider that part and parcel of the being-with part, too though.


Well, as I have learned in my short 5 yr experience as a Christian, even in suffering I can still be with God, and He helps me through the pain. I am sorry to hear you grandma died though. -huggers-

What denom are you?
Unionist, "Rosaries are no good", God being too good for us... I'd reckon he's a Free Presbyterian. Just speculation though.

you dont JUST focus on that. you focus on it now and then. you break up your usual "chat with god" kind of prayer with a meditation on just how big a sacrifice jesus made. its not like it was EASY.

im not suggesting that a non catholic should pray the rosary. im suggesting that meditating on the life of jesus now and then is a good thing.


Ill agree. To focus on His choice to still go on with the plan, even though he had to face all of that pain (physical and emotional), and betrayal. To be able to focus and meditate on His willing sacrifice is a good thing to do.

Unionist, "Rosaries are no good", God being too good for us... I'd reckon he's a Free Presbyterian. Just speculation though.


Ah, well I am not very familiar with that line of belief. -shrugs- oh well.

Verse please. What denom are you? I thought Jesus was our mediator, He cleanses us that we may have direct contact to God.

/agrees

I wasn't sure how to say it, so I was just hoping someone else would. :D

Verse please. What denom are you? I thought Jesus was our mediator, He cleanses us that we may have direct contact to God.
Jesus does wash away our sins but GOD is pure there are angles who cannot even look at GOD because he is Pure Jesus made it possible for us to be clean

Ah, well I am not very familiar with that line of belief. -shrugs- oh well.
actually im Pentacostal

Ok, so I am doing this new bible lesson thing in part to help me to be a better christian. So far this lesson plan i am using from www.biblestudylessons.com is pretty good. However, there are some things I wonder about.

For example I am on lesson four now, and in the intro it says "Some members might not pray properly, so their prayers are not even answered"
I didn't think there was a "right" way to pray. That comment kind of has me skeptical of this lesson.

Also, it makes note, in lesson 2, that we should try to follow Paul's example. Now I know he was a good guy and all, but shouldn't we follow Christ's example instead? Plus it gives Phillipians 3:17 and 4:9, which say something along the lines that Paul is saying that we should follow him, because he more or less knows how to live the life... Isn't that a little...prideful?

Any help would be greatly appreciated :D

I wasn't aware that there was a right way to pray, as far as the words you say, but there is a right way in the sense of where you are coming from.

Although I do believe that all prayers are answered, you just might not get the one you are looking for. It's always the right answer though.

1 Who is God?
John 4:24
God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth

2 Corinthians 3:17
Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.

1 John 4:8
Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love

Who is Jesus?
Matthews 17:5
While he was still speaking, a bright cloud enveloped them, and a voice from the cloud said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Listen to him

Through whom did God show love to the people?
John 3:15
That everyone who believes in him may have eternal life

Romans 5:8
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

Peter 3
21) And baptism, of which this is an image, now gives you salvation, not by washing clean the flesh, but by making you free from the sense of sin before God, through the coming again of Jesus Christ from the dead;

Romans 6
3) Or are you without the knowledge that all we who had baptism into Christ Jesus, had baptism into his death?
4) We have been placed with him among the dead through baptism into death: so that as Christ came again from the dead by the glory of the Father, we, in the same way, might be living in new life.


Jesus died to give us life

snip the versus

I don't see any of those versus saying that angels take the prayers to God though. I think your way of thinking only furthers us from God, but he wants to have a close relationship to us.

but anywho, Thanks for all the help everyone :)

(Primarily in response to Unionist, though also for anyone to critique; it's not exactly a mainstream Christian interpretation)
The kingdom of God does not come with your careful observation, nor will people say 'Here it is' or 'There it is', because the kingdom of God is Within You.
Heaven as a post-death or even earthly reward for earthly righteousness should not be the focus of faith. A spiritual unity with God is possible within all of us, and should we find it, we will reach the transcendental heaven long before this life is out. At least, that's what I think these verses are saying.

I wasn't aware that there was a right way to pray, as far as the words you say, but there is a right way in the sense of where you are coming from.

Although I do believe that all prayers are answered, you just might not get the one you are looking for. It's always the right answer though.


Yeah I was under the impression that all prayers are answered, either yes, no or maybe later.

(Primarily in response to Unionist, though also for anyone to critique; it's not exactly a mainstream Christian interpretation)

Heaven as a post-death or even earthly reward for earthly righteousness should not be the focus of faith. A spiritual unity with God is possible within all of us, and should we find it, we will reach the transcendental heaven long before this life is out. At least, that's what I think these verses are saying.


Yeah, that is totally what I believe. To be one with God is the greatest reward of a Christian lifestyle. Not a post death part.:rolleyes:

Having to kneel down or bow your head or clasp your hands or use a rosary or anything like that is more for your benefit rather than god's.

He can hear you regardless of whether you say it, think it, kneel while doing it, or anything else. Everything you do is a prayer, it's just a matter of acknowledging that god's listening.


And actually I think god would appreciate the humor of starting a prayer with "praise buddha!", seeing as how he's got an awesome sense of humor himself.

Well, as I have learned in my short 5 yr experience as a Christian, even in suffering I can still be with God, and He helps me through the pain. I am sorry to hear you grandma died though. -huggers-

Yes, though it'd be pretty lousy if it lasted forever, wouldn't it? Part of what makes suffering bearable NOW is that we know it WON'T last forever. But hey, if you could handle it, more power to ya, or whatever.

Thanks. She was 98, and is better off now.

Having to kneel down or bow your head or clasp your hands or use a rosary or anything like that is more for your benefit rather than god's.

He can hear you regardless of whether you say it, think it, kneel while doing it, or anything else. Everything you do is a prayer, it's just a matter of acknowledging that god's listening.


And actually I think god would appreciate the humor of starting a prayer with "praise buddha!", seeing as how he's got an awesome sense of humor himself.

But then he might confuse you for His worshippers who know Him as Buddha (in a manner of speaking... since Buddha isn't exactly a deity). :p

But then he might confuse you for His worshippers who know Him as Buddha (in a manner of speaking... since Buddha isn't exactly a deity). :p


I thought there was a school of Buddhism that beleieves he is a god.

I thought there was a school of Buddhism that beleieves he is a god.

It depends.

In Shinto, Buddha is considered to be one of the most powerful kami. Of course, in Shinto, everyone who is registered at a Shinto shrine becomes a kami upon their death. (I feel that it should be everyone becomes a kami upon death. Obviously, the Japanese beg to differ.) I'm not aware of any sect of Buddhism other than 'Shinto/Buddhism' which considers Buddha to be a deity....

I thought there was a school of Buddhism that beleieves he is a god.
There are also schools of Buddhism that believe both Buddha and God are spirits like any other, several more that borrow the Hindu gods and place both in their context as (okay, probably metaphorical) incarnations of Vishnu and the Brahman accordingly and yet others that take a more "Gaia"-like approach to them.

Within Buddhism, there is a great deal of scope for flexibility of thought and interpretation, as is fairly common of the "eastern Religions".

Ok, so I am doing this new bible lesson thing in part to help me to be a better christian. So far this lesson plan i am using from www.biblestudylessons.com is pretty good. However, there are some things I wonder about.

For example I am on lesson four now, and in the intro it says "Some members might not pray properly, so their prayers are not even answered"
I didn't think there was a "right" way to pray. That comment kind of has me skeptical of this lesson.

Also, it makes note, in lesson 2, that we should try to follow Paul's example. Now I know he was a good guy and all, but shouldn't we follow Christ's example instead? Plus it gives Phillipians 3:17 and 4:9, which say something along the lines that Paul is saying that we should follow him, because he more or less knows how to live the life... Isn't that a little...prideful?

Any help would be greatly appreciated :D

Well there is no actually "right" way of praying. However, you have to understand that praying comes from the heart, if not then it is simply a bunch of words. Well, Christians is mostly based on Jesus' example of love and forgiveness.

Ok, so I am doing this new bible lesson thing in part to help me to be a better christian. So far this lesson plan i am using from www.biblestudylessons.com is pretty good. However, there are some things I wonder about.

For example I am on lesson four now, and in the intro it says "Some members might not pray properly, so their prayers are not even answered"
I didn't think there was a "right" way to pray. That comment kind of has me skeptical of this lesson.

I don't buy into the notion that prayer really accomplishes much. I don't think that God works by democracy; He has his own agenda and he's not going to deviate from it just because I want to whine about my own problems.
Granted, I pray anyway.

Also, it makes note, in lesson 2, that we should try to follow Paul's example. Now I know he was a good guy and all, but shouldn't we follow Christ's example instead? Plus it gives Phillipians 3:17 and 4:9, which say something along the lines that Paul is saying that we should follow him, because he more or less knows how to live the life... Isn't that a little...prideful?

Any help would be greatly appreciated :D

Paul was just a guy. He has opinions, some are right and some are wrong.
I'd rate JC's words over Paul's any day of the week (especially Sunday).

I don't buy into the notion that prayer really accomplishes much. I don't think that God works by democracy; He has his own agenda and he's not going to deviate from it just because I want to whine about my own problems.
Granted, I pray anyway.



Paul was just a guy. He has opinions, some are right and some are wrong.
I'd rate JC's words over Paul's any day of the week (especially Sunday).

Exactly - Paul talks a lot of shit. It's his writings that 'outlined' the whole exodus thing when they were really just letters to people - not just that, but he's one of the people, who when taken seriously enough, greatly cloud and confuse the relationship between yourself and god.

I don't claim to be a mature Christian.

There is a correct way to pray. The manner does not matter (as long as there are no children sacrifices or the like). The content of a prayer should include only what is found in the Lord's Prayer.

As for following Paul's example. We ought to, if he was following Christ's example. But there are some things where we see what Paul did, but not Jesus in a particular situation. We should then follow Paul's example. The Apostles were infallible in matters of religion. That doesn't mean he didn't sin. However, if we find nothing against what Paul did in the rest of the Bible (pay close attention to the Law) then we should follow his example.

This is what I've been taught on these matters. Not to Paul specifically, but my lessons apply.

Ok, so I am doing this new bible lesson thing in part to help me to be a better christian. So far this lesson plan i am using from www.biblestudylessons.com is pretty good. However, there are some things I wonder about.

For example I am on lesson four now, and in the intro it says "Some members might not pray properly, so their prayers are not even answered"
I didn't think there was a "right" way to pray. That comment kind of has me skeptical of this lesson.

Also, it makes note, in lesson 2, that we should try to follow Paul's example. Now I know he was a good guy and all, but shouldn't we follow Christ's example instead? Plus it gives Phillipians 3:17 and 4:9, which say something along the lines that Paul is saying that we should follow him, because he more or less knows how to live the life... Isn't that a little...prideful?

Any help would be greatly appreciated :D
I'm a militant atheist, so I really can't give you any advice other than things are so much simpler and clearer without religion.

Have a nice day, good sir. :cool:

No.

If you pray seeking material things, you are not praying properly.
If you pray while trying to figure out whether you need to pck up any ingredients for dinner tonight, you're not praying properly.

Prayer should be focused, heartfelt, and based on improving one's spiritual health.
I think that is it in a nutshell.

actually im Pentacostal

Heretic! Come back from the dark side of the Protestants! :p

Having to kneel down or bow your head or clasp your hands or use a rosary or anything like that is more for your benefit rather than god's.

Kneeling and lying prostrate are for the prayer's benefit yes. Your body is the outlet and inlet of your mind. If you bow bodily to God, it may help your heart and mind bow also.

Yeah I was under the impression that all prayers are answered, either yes, no or maybe later.

Not all prayers are asking for things though. Some prayers are prayers of praise. Some are prayers of thanks. Some are more meditation than what most people think of as prayer. All questions asked during prayer may be answered, but a prayer of thanks, praise, or meditation does not necessarily require an answer.

Kneeling and lying prostrate are for the prayer's benefit yes. Your body is the outlet and inlet of your mind. If you bow bodily to God, it may help your heart and mind bow also.

Interestingly, some cultures think that doing so is an insult to God, that prayer should be done with eyes open towards the heavens, with arms wide open, to welcome God.

I would say that you should pray in the manner that gives you the greatest sense of God's presence. If being prostrate while doing so seems to bring you closer, do it. If opening yourself up and drinking in God's creations does so, go for that. If you need only focus inwardly, and do not need to move in any obvious manner, that is fine too.

Interestingly, some cultures think that doing so is an insult to God, that prayer should be done with eyes open towards the heavens, with arms wide open, to welcome God.

I would say that you should pray in the manner that gives you the greatest sense of God's presence. If being prostrate while doing so seems to bring you closer, do it. If opening yourself up and drinking in God's creations does so, go for that. If you need only focus inwardly, and do not need to move in any obvious manner, that is fine too.

I like that. see, sometimes i pray in bed, or while driving(in my head anyways, not eyes closed driving), or just walking around, or whatever. Each situation requires a different way to pray, to feel the greatest sense of being close to God.

Ok, so I am doing this new bible lesson thing in part to help me to be a better christian. So far this lesson plan i am using from www.biblestudylessons.com is pretty good. However, there are some things I wonder about.

For example I am on lesson four now, and in the intro it says "Some members might not pray properly, so their prayers are not even answered"
I didn't think there was a "right" way to pray. That comment kind of has me skeptical of this lesson.

Also, it makes note, in lesson 2, that we should try to follow Paul's example. Now I know he was a good guy and all, but shouldn't we follow Christ's example instead? Plus it gives Phillipians 3:17 and 4:9, which say something along the lines that Paul is saying that we should follow him, because he more or less knows how to live the life... Isn't that a little...prideful?

Any help would be greatly appreciated :D
Stay away from right wing fundamental teaching. They are the new Pharisees, the people Jesus critisized most.

Christianity is the simplest of religions. Only two rules. Love God. Love everyone else. Anything beyond those two rules is commentary.

Color me impressed by some of the answers and by the way that Zilam looks at them. I read your questions and was planning to answer, but I would say it would sound very much like what Dempublicents1 had to say.

Kudos to all who took this seriously and actually tried to help someone figure out how to be more spiritual.

Not all prayers are asking for things though. Some prayers are prayers of praise. Some are prayers of thanks. Some are more meditation than what most people think of as prayer. All questions asked during prayer may be answered, but a prayer of thanks, praise, or meditation does not necessarily require an answer.

I think one thing that strikes me is that God already knows what we want and how we feel. I've always felt talking to God was sort of personifying 'Him' in a way.

I think that we have to realize that the act of prayer is not about telling God anything, but merely about making ourselves feel the connection to God that we always have and about forcing ourselves to better understand our own wants and needs. In that way, the simple act of prayer aids us in the spirit. I think this is what Christ was trying to tell us when he suggested the Lord's Prayer. He was trying to let us know that prayer is more about us than telling God anything. And it is our realization, our understanding of what we feel and what we believe, that we've sinned, that brings about answers from God.

Prayer or not God answers us. I think prayer is what helps us hear the answers.

Stay away from right wing fundamental teaching. They are the new Pharisees, the people Jesus critisized most.

Christianity is the simplest of religions. Only two rules. Love God. Love everyone else. Anything beyond those two rules is commentary.

You know I've mixed you up with another poster in the past and I apologize for that. I think you can figure where and when I'm talking about.

I agree with this statement whole-heartedly.

I like that. see, sometimes i pray in bed, or while driving(in my head anyways, not eyes closed driving), or just walking around, or whatever. Each situation requires a different way to pray, to feel the greatest sense of being close to God.

And when it comes right down to it, I think that's really what prayer (and worship) is all about. They are both ways to bring us closer to God, to cement our relationship with God. God already knows what we need, and what is in our hearts, so we don't have to pray for God to understand our requests. The prayers are for our benefit, not for God's. They are for us to feel that relationship and be able to focus on it.

Ok, this is scary. I typed all of the above, then scrolled down to see any new posts before submitting it, and I saw:


I think one thing that strikes me is that God already knows what we want and how we feel. I've always felt talking to God was sort of personifying 'Him' in a way.

I think that we have to realize that the act of prayer is not about telling God anything, but merely about making ourselves feel the connection to God that we always have and about forcing ourselves to better understand our own wants and needs. In that way, the simple act of prayer aids us in the spirit. I think this is what Christ was trying to tell us when he suggested the Lord's Prayer. He was trying to let us know that prayer is more about us than telling God anything. And it is our realization, our understanding of what we feel and what we believe, that we've sinned, that brings about answers from God.

Scary as it may sound, it looks like Jocabia and I are actually pretty much on the same page on this. =)

And when it comes right down to it, I think that's really what prayer (and worship) is all about. They are both ways to bring us closer to God, to cement our relationship with God. God already knows what we need, and what is in our hearts, so we don't have to pray for God to understand our requests. The prayers are for our benefit, not for God's. They are for us to feel that relationship and be able to focus on it.

Ok, this is scary. I typed all of the above, then scrolled down to see any new posts before submitting it, and I saw:



Scary as it may sound, it looks like Jocabia and I are actually pretty much on the same page on this. =)

Yes, I noticed that.

For me, I find better ways to be closer to God. I simply look to find peace and the path I am supposed to be on becomes clear. It's so weird but it's like indecision and fear simply melt away (until I open my eyes and start questioning everything ten minutes later ;) )

The only prayer I actually do is in the spirit of the lesson I find in Matthew about the Lord's Prayer. I wake up every morning (and often a points during the day) and thank God for another day of my life. Prayer for me is not about seeking answers because I've trained myself to hear them in another context. For me, it's about ensuring that I never start taking the gifts I've been given for granted. It's about ensuring that I remember that we have all recieved gifts and I seek to share mine as I seek to share in others.

It's funny but I am often very thankful for this forum because of people like you who allow me to share in their gifts and who share so respectfully in mine.

I think one thing that strikes me is that God already knows what we want and how we feel. I've always felt talking to God was sort of personifying 'Him' in a way.


Of course God knows what you want/need, but He asks us to ask him. I kinda feel like it brings Him joy for us to spend time with Him. That's just my own personal opinion though.

I do agree with this though I think prayer is what helps us hear the answers

Of course God knows what you want/need, but He asks us to ask him. I kinda feel like it brings Him joy for us to spend time with Him. That's just my own personal opinion though.

I do agree with this though

But I think he asks us to ask Him, not because He's not always with us, but because we're not always with Him. When we actually take time out to ask Him it clarifies the question to us, it reminds us of the glory, it helps us be closer. I believe prayer is for us and in that we become closer spiritually to God, this brings God joy, so to speak.

As we become better Christians long and drawn-out prayers should not be required to 'bring us back' to God. For me, it only takes that I remember how fortunate I am and I find it easy to forego my anger, my sorrow, or whatever else plagues me because I forgot to appreciate my life.

The content of a prayer should include only what is found in the Lord's Prayer.

Mat 6:7 And in praying do not heap up empty phrases as the Gentiles do; for they think that they will be heard for their many words.

Too often the Lord's Prayer becomes nothing but empty words piled on top of each other. I think it should be an outline not a magic formula.

Mat 6:7 And in praying do not heap up empty phrases as the Gentiles do; for they think that they will be heard for their many words.

Too often the Lord's Prayer becomes nothing but empty words piled on top of each other. I think it should be an outline not a magic formula.

Exactly. I think it was meant to make a point that it should be more than just asking for things and tell God about all the things you'd like him to do. "Please heal Johnny and bless Mary and smite Joseph." It also shouldn't just be fulfilling your daily 'duty' to pray. It should be something meaningful to us that allows to be closer to God.

But I think he asks us to ask Him, not because He's not always with us, but because we're not always with Him. When we actually take time out to ask Him it clarifies the question to us, it reminds us of the glory, it helps us be closer. I believe prayer is for us and in that we become closer spiritually to God, this brings God joy, so to speak.
that's what I meant ;) sorta, you always explain it better than I can.

As we become better Christians long and drawn-out prayers should not be required to 'bring us back' to God. For me, it only takes that I remember how fortunate I am and I find it easy to forego my anger, my sorrow, or whatever else plagues me because I forgot to appreciate my life.
true, but a good long talk with God fixes a lot more than most people realize.

although my prayers are probably not the most eloquent

"hey God, you are so awesome, thank you for such a great day, although <name deleted> has been annoying me lately, but you know that cuz you are God, anyway, she really makes me wonder why on Earth she is here, she serves no purpose but to piss me off, although I have somewhat of a limited view, if you can love her, I guess I will try, talk to you later Amen"

Interestingly, some cultures think that doing so is an insult to God, that prayer should be done with eyes open towards the heavens, with arms wide open, to welcome God.

I would say that you should pray in the manner that gives you the greatest sense of God's presence. If being prostrate while doing so seems to bring you closer, do it. If opening yourself up and drinking in God's creations does so, go for that. If you need only focus inwardly, and do not need to move in any obvious manner, that is fine too.

I said it may help, not that it was necessary.

I pray kneeling and lying prostrate only when I'm alone. It causes me to focus on what I'm doing: approaching a God infinitely superior to me. But outside of my room it proves to be to great a distraction for others.

Mat 6:7 And in praying do not heap up empty phrases as the Gentiles do; for they think that they will be heard for their many words.

Too often the Lord's Prayer becomes nothing but empty words piled on top of each other. I think it should be an outline not a magic formula.

The content should be no different. We should not ask for things outside of the Lord's prayer. We should not ask for things we want - but things we need (or think we need). We should always praise God in our prayers. We should always ask God for forgiveness.

The content ought to be the same. That does not mean that words cannot be changed or that form cannot be altered. But when one goes beyond what God prescribes, one is adding to God's word. That is (figuratively) inexcusable.

If one is only repeating the words, not truly praying them, then one's prayer is as the babbling of the Gentiles.

But I think he asks us to ask Him, not because He's not always with us, but because we're not always with Him. When we actually take time out to ask Him it clarifies the question to us, it reminds us of the glory, it helps us be closer. I believe prayer is for us and in that we become closer spiritually to God, this brings God joy, so to speak.

This may be the only time I agree with you on a matter of theology. :)

I said it may help, not that it was necessary.

I know. It wasn't an argument really - more of a clarification.

The content should be no different. We should not ask for things outside of the Lord's prayer.

I have to disagree here. The Lord's prayer was not meant to be the "law" on prayer, as it were. It was an example. Trying to follow it exactly ends up basically being beside the point. At that point, you are trying to follow a rule instead of trying to commune with God.

I know. It wasn't an argument really - more of a clarification.

I have to disagree here. The Lord's prayer was not meant to be the "law" on prayer, as it were. It was an example. Trying to follow it exactly ends up basically being beside the point. At that point, you are trying to follow a rule instead of trying to commune with God.

Isn't a way to "commune" (I don't like that word in this context) to follow God's commands? Is that not a way through which we show our love for Him? And if He commanded us to pray this way, oughtn't we?

Isn't a way to "commune" (I don't like that word in this context) to follow God's commands? Is that not a way through which we show our love for Him? And if He commanded us to pray this way, oughtn't we?

And Christ never said, "Pray exactly like this. Don't do anything more or less." He simply used it as an example prayer.

And Christ never said, "Pray exactly like this. Don't do anything more or less." He simply used it as an example prayer.

I think I may not have made myself clear. It is not that one may say the Lord's Prayer only. Any prayer one says ought to have only the content found in the Lord's prayer. For example, David prays that justice be done on his enemies. This prayer agrees with "deliver us from evil." We ought not to pray for a raise so we can have that back-yard pool. We ought to pray that our financial strain might be eased so that we might devote more time to God: "Your kingdom come, Your will be done."

And you are correct. Very few persons actually know what they are saying when they repeat the Lord's Prayer.