NationStates Jolt Archive

In May of 2005, in my second blog, I wrote about Chavez's move to build a 1.5 million man army to threaten America's allies in the region.

A South American Stalin
The following is based on an article in a February issue of US News and World Report.


While the US fights terrorism abroad there is a huge threat to growing just to the south.

Particularly from the alliance between Cuba and Venezuela's bloodthirsty dictator, Hugo Chavez.
Since achieving power in Venezuela, Chavez has left no stone unturned in his declarations that he seeks the destruction of the United States. In one speech this deluded madman demanded that the US give the southwest back to Mexico.

He changed his nation's constitution to give himself absolute power. Any verbal statement that criticizes his regime is punishable by up to 15 years in prison.

And as if persecuting his people weren't enough, President Chavez is openly supporting the terrorist group FARC, a group known for abducting and beheading Americans. Several international organizations have reported that FARC has recieved arms and money from the Chavez regime which gives them refuge inside Venezuela, from which they launch terrorist attacks against civilians in Colombia. At times, Venezuelan agents were seen in Colombia assisting FARC in its attacks on Colombian forces. Not only is Chavez supporting FARC, but he openly declares his support for such groups as Al Qaeda and is suspected of being part of a group that has been smuggling cash to insurgents in Iraq.
Madman Chavez's illegal interference in Colombian internal affairs and his support of the world's worst international terrorist organizations is all part of his self declared jihad against the evil American capitalist empire.

More troubling news is that he has made alliance with Cuba's Castro. In a treaty signed by the two men, Chavez granted Cuban judicial and security officials extensive police powers inside Venezuela. Thousands of Venezuelans have already been forced at gun point into reeducation camps and the military is being reindoctrinated. And the treaty allows the cubans to bypass the Venezuelan judiciary and seize any one inside Venezuela both cuban and venezuelan, and they even have to power to take them to Cuba for trial.
Tens of thousands of Venezuelan youth were forcibly taken to Cuba for indoctrination. At least 2 or 3 Americans aid workers are sitting in Venezuelan prisons. Their only crime having been that they are Americans.

Just recently Chavez announced he was going to build 1.5 million man army to attack US allies in the region. And the Europeans are helping him. Certain European nations recently sold him state of the art attack aircraft. The White House has protested the sales but the Europeans went ahead anyway. Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice has spoken out against Chavez's long list of human rights abuses and his attempts to overthrow governments throughout the western hemisphere.

Even the election that brought Chavez to power was a fraud. In the election that gave Chavez regime credibility, various elections monitors have alleged vote fraud.
Former President Carter's group observed less than 1% of the ballots counted when it endorsed Chavez's victory. Of the 192 ballots that were supposed to have been counted, only 76 actually were. And Chavez regime picked which ballots from which towns would be counted. So that not every Venezuelans vote counted. Professors from Harvard and MIT have issued reports revealing there is a 99% likelihood that the election was a fraud.

We must go beyond protesting arms sales and condemning Chavez human rights violations. We must take him to task for his violation Colombian soverignty. Further we must impose sanctions. While we get oil from Venezuela, this can be replaced by increasing our purchase of Russian oil or by allowing drilling in Alaska. We must also demand the release of all Americans being illegally held in Cuban and Venezuelan prisons. And we must be ready to back up our demands with force. If we don't, we will soon find ourselves confronting 1.5 million army just south of our own border.

That's my two cents.


The US NEWS and World Report is the most reliable news source on earth.
This is one of the predictions I made in 2005, and now it is coming true and Chavez is becoming a real national security threat to the United States and its allies.

I'll never understand how you crazy yanks can talk so much shit about countries you've never seen and never met people from...all the while complaining about 'propaganda' while never questioning the propaganda you've been raised on.

Today, Hugo Chavez continues to support international terrorist organizations, support drug cartels (who give him his funding), is threatening the Netherlands territory of the Dutch Antilles, is openly seeking alliance with Iran. He is also seeking uranium. Why? Perhaps because he seeks to build nuclear weapons. He has been implicated with interfereing with the elections in his neighobor's territories and he is seeking to rig US elections.

First let me present this letter from a Venezuelan hiding in exile in the United Kingdom. His name has been withheld because his family back in Venezuela would be seized and tortured:

http://www.vcrisis.com/index.php?content=letters/200604181552

That was hilarious! Pure gold satire of the usual right wing BS concerning latin american populist governments.:) At first I thought that you might be serious, but it was so over the top that I started laughing halfway through.

Can you do another one? Maybe about Canada this time?

Ahhh. Thank you Whittier--. Thank you.

I was having a slow day, and you've made me laugh uncontrollably at my computer. Tears of laughter are flowing down my cheeks.

I appreciate the thought and effort you put into making all this shit up just to keep people smiling :)

I'll never understand how you crazy yanks can talk so much shit about countries you've never seen and never met people from...all the while complaining about 'propaganda' while never questioning the propaganda you've been raised on.
I've met Venezuelans. One of my close friends is married to a Venezuelan girl and I've met her, her sister, and some of their friends. They don't like Chavez.

Is Hugo Chavez as much of a threat to America as Saddam Hussein?

(i.e. none)

I've met Venezuelans. One of my close friends is married to a Venezuelan girl and I've met her, her sister, and some of their friends. They don't like Chavez.
Yeah, but DC, you don't talke NEARLY as much shit as Whittier does. Therefore I withhold the title of 'yank' from you.

Guess what...if you really want to hate Cuba, go listen to the bitter, delusional Miami Cubans.

But if you really want to get an idea of what the people of these countries believe, and want...go visit them in their homes.

Chavez is about 20 million deaths short of Stalin.

It's always a threat when people go crazy and ELECT A SOCIALIST GOVERNMENT. It shows they want some socialism, and that does not compute. You must save these insane people from themselves...the tested and tried way...by overthrowing their elected government, and installing brutal dictators who then go hog wild, torturing, raping and killing those people. Kind of like how the Spanish Inquisition saved heretics by BURNING THEM ALIVE.

"Well, that's a relief...another heretic that won't burn for eternity in hellfire!"

Hmmm.

Yeah, but DC, you don't talke NEARLY as much shit as Whittier does. Therefore I withhold the title of 'yank' from you.

Guess what...if you really want to hate Cuba, go listen to the bitter, delusional Miami Cubans.

But if you really want to get an idea of what the people of these countries believe, and want...go visit them in their homes.
How dare you? I demand to be agknowldged as a Yankee. What do I have to do, burn down Atlanta or something?

Chavez is about 20 million deaths short of Stalin.
I'm sure Whittier is about to 'prove' to us how Chavez is about to catch up.

How dare you? I demand to be agknowldged as a Yankee. What do I have to do, burn down Atlanta or something?
The fact that you have to ask simply proves you can never truly attain yanquihood. I'm sorry, DC. You'll just have to go on living.

I don't think that Chavez is an angel, but I do think that he's better (for Venezuela) than the guy before him. I know it's hard when people elect leaders who want to help their own people, not foreign CEOs but try to live with it.

I'm sure Whittier is about to 'prove' to us how Chavez is about to catch up.

Really? Sweet.

hahahahahahahahahahahaha quite funny really that you actualy believe every little bit of that

1. On Hugo Chavez's ties to international terrorism.


http://www.vcrisis.com/index.php?content=letters/200604140802

Hugo Chavez continues to support the terrorist group FARC, and threaten Mexico. He continues to fund revolutionaries in Colombia who abduct and kill innocent civilians. Chavez continues to support the drug cartels.

"Evidence, as is often the case with his 'revolution,' indicates that since Chavez's arrival in power, Venezuela has become the favourite launching pad for Colombia's drug traffickers. It is argued that +80% of the cocaine produced in neighbouring Colombia and the region enters the international markets via Venezuela, as heretofore unseen quantities have been seized in various countries"

"On the other hand Chavez's cozy relationship with the FARC is no secret. So much so that the deranged president disrupted ties with Colombia, over the capture in Caracas of FARC's leader Rodrigo Granda, who had Venezuelan citizenship, whose wife and step-daughter were welcomed by close associates of Chavez -read Rodriguez Chacin, and who was a guest of honor in one of his Bolivarian get-togethers."

Hugo Chavez treats terrorists as guests of honor.

http://www.commonvoice.com/article.asp?colid=4684

"the Colombian army has long alleged that Venezuela's socialist president, Hugo Chavez, is sympathetic to the Marxist rIebels, according to Venzuelan political analyst Aleksander Boyd

"On the other hand Chavez's cozy relationship with the FARC is no secret. So much so that the deranged president disrupted ties with Colombia, Venezuela's second largest commercial partner, over the capture in Caracas of FARC's leader Rodrigo Granda, who had Venezuelan citizenship, whose wife and step-daughter were welcomed by close associates of Chavez ... Rodriguez Chacin, and who was a guest of honor in one of his Bolivarian get-togethers."

FARC is internationally recognized as THE major terrorist organization in Latin America.

Coverly give the populace weapons. Revolt.

Or assasinate Chavez.

Coverly give the populace weapons. Revolt.

Or assasinate Chavez.
Like Pat Roberson said, assasinate Chavez.

WWJK
Who Would Jesus Kill?

Covertly give the populace weapons. Revolt.

Or assasinate Chavez.

Difficult to covertly arm the population of Venezuela when Chavez is doing it openly (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4777972.stm). Now what was that argument that is used to defend the 2nd ammendment again?

Coverly give the populace weapons. Revolt.

Or assasinate Chavez.
hell, you just have to incite revolt. Chavez is currently arming his populace.

I've met Venezuelans. One of my close friends is married to a Venezuelan girl and I've met her, her sister, and some of their friends. They don't like Chavez.

He probably stole their home/property.

Most middle/upper class people hate Chavez.

hahahahahahahahahahahaha quite funny really that you actualy believe every little bit of that

i'm surprised you don't (not just you, but others who feign surprise).


Has history taught us nothing?

COMMUNIST LEADERS/REGIMES ARE INVARIABLY TOTALITARIAN, CUT DOWN ON HUMAN RIGHTS MAJORLY, etc.

(can't believe y'all haven't learned this... Chavez's antics should come as no surprise)

He probably stole their home/property.

Most middle/upper class people hate Chavez.

Which means about 5% of Venezuelans. This is significantly lower than the percentage of US citizens who hate Bush.

In May of 2005, in my second blog, I wrote about Chavez's move to build a 1.5 million man army to threaten America's allies in the region.

snip


That's my two cents.


The US NEWS and World Report is the most reliable news source on earth.
This is one of the predictions I made in 2005, and now it is coming true and Chavez is becoming a real national security threat to the United States and its allies.


What a hateful cretin you are.

At least, that could be the opinion of someone reading your ill-informed, ludicrous diatribe.

But not my opinion, oh no.

Ahem

i'm surprised you don't (not just you, but others who feign surprise).


Has history taught us nothing?

COMMUNIST LEADERS/REGIMES ARE INVARIABLY TOTALITARIAN, CUT DOWN ON HUMAN RIGHTS MAJORLY, etc.

(can't believe y'all haven't learned this... Chavez's antics should come as no surprise)
11 million children per year die of preventable diseases.

Not one is Cuban.

To me, the right to life is the ultimate human right. Property rights take a back seat to that. No one starves to death in Cuba. No one is denied education, or a home. Social rights trump economic rights in that country.

If that means that Cuba is totalitarian...I'll take it. And I applaud Venzuela, Bolivia, Uruguay and Brazil for at least trying to ensure the same social rights.

i'm surprised you don't (not just you, but others who feign surprise).


Has history taught us nothing?

COMMUNIST LEADERS/REGIMES ARE INVARIABLY TOTALITARIAN, CUT DOWN ON HUMAN RIGHTS MAJORLY, etc.

(can't believe y'all haven't learned this... Chavez's antics should come as no surprise)

Chavez is not communist. Venezuela has a democratic system that elected a left-leaning government.

In latin american history, the list of right wing dictatorships is far longer than the list of left-wing governments.

i'm surprised you don't (not just you, but others who feign surprise).


Has history taught us nothing?

COMMUNIST LEADERS/REGIMES ARE INVARIABLY TOTALITARIAN, CUT DOWN ON HUMAN RIGHTS MAJORLY, etc.

(can't believe y'all haven't learned this... Chavez's antics should come as no surprise)

Communist? No. Socialist. Yes, that is a fairer description.

Totalitarian? Hardly :rolleyes:

So, the people of the country that voted him in twice should be told they can't elect their own leaders? Nice.

i'm surprised you don't (not just you, but others who feign surprise).


Has history taught us nothing?

COMMUNIST LEADERS/REGIMES ARE INVARIABLY TOTALITARIAN, CUT DOWN ON HUMAN RIGHTS MAJORLY, etc.

(can't believe y'all haven't learned this... Chavez's antics should come as no surprise)


Just one problem, Chavez is a socialist, not a communist. Just because he's on 'the left'; it doesn't follow that he is an extremist.

Bush is on 'the right'; does this mean he should be labelled a fascist? On second thoughts, don't answer that.

In latin american history, the list of right wing dictatorships is far longer than the list of left-wing governments.


Only thanks to good ol' interfering Uncle Sam. :D

Was Chavez elected in fair elections, or were they rigged banana-republic "elections"?

Was Chavez elected in fair elections, or were they rigged banana-republic "elections"?

The former.

Was Chavez elected in fair elections, or were they rigged banana-republic "elections"?
The last election was internationally monitored, and cleared as 'fair'.

One catch. The opposition pulled out and refused to participate.

Now consider this. You know who is going to win. Do you still bother to vote?

Voter turnout was very low. But it makes sense, doesn't it?

And now, the opposition parties no longer exist.

Why?

If you don't hold any seats in a government, your party does not exist, period.

Take all those explanations out though, and you get this:

"Voter turnout proves that people do not support Chavez, and therefore, the election is fraudulent. Chavez has also declared that opposition parties are dissolved."

Amazing how you can spin things.

The man was fairly elected, and has the support of the majority of his people. He has been trying to improve his country, and the poorest people there, but at the cost of big corporations! Wont someone think of the filthy rich!
But hey, the US has had no problem with replacing fairly elected left leaning Latin American leaders and replacing them with horrific dictators before, General Pinochet anyone?

Yeah, but DC, you don't talke NEARLY as much shit as Whittier does. Therefore I withhold the title of 'yank' from you.

Guess what...if you really want to hate Cuba, go listen to the bitter, delusional Miami Cubans.

But if you really want to get an idea of what the people of these countries believe, and want...go visit them in their homes.
I've never met any Venezuelans. I've met a lot of "yanks," though. None of them seem to care about the admin's problems with Hugo. Evryone I know just feels like thye can do what they want and we should buy stuf from them and sell stuff from them. The anti-Chavez rhetoric is a phenomenon of this admin and it's dwindling support among hardcore righties like the OP. Most "yanks" I know couldn't care less who they decide to have run their country.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3571350.stm

Do you know how long it took to find a link from a reputable source?

Most of the sites that Google came up with were either blindly supportive of Chavez or blindly critical.

I've never met any Venezuelans. I've met a lot of "yanks," though. None of them seem to care about the admin's problems with Hugo. Evryone I know just feels like thye can do what they want and we should buy stuf from them and sell stuff from them. The anti-Chavez rhetoric is a phenomenon of this admin and it's dwindling support among hardcore righties like the OP. Most "yanks" I know couldn't care less who they decide to have run their country.
Na, you're misusing the term 'yank'. Everyone knows it's for the latin-american hating, imperialist USians!:D

The man was fairly elected, and has the support of the majority of his people. He has been trying to improve his country, and the poorest people there, but at the cost of big corporations! Wont someone think of the filthy rich!
But hey, the US has had no problem with replacing fairly elected left leaning Latin American leaders and replacing them with horrific dictators before, General Pinochet anyone?

I'll keep an interested eye on their economy as he continues to attack entrepreneurialism, proprietary rights, etc.

How long can he rely on oil to fund his socialist policies?

The man was fairly elected, and has the support of the majority of his people. He has been trying to improve his country, and the poorest people there, but at the cost of big corporations! Wont someone think of the filthy rich!
But hey, the US has had no problem with replacing fairly elected left leaning Latin American leaders and replacing them with horrific dictators before, General Pinochet anyone?
Some would say he's gone too far expropriating land and some businesses considered improductive. That's so far my only concern about him. There are some things to keep an eye on looking towards the elections in December, but calling him "Stalin of South America" is just ludicrous.

As long as most of the Venezuelans want him in power, I don't see what say we have.

I'll keep an interested eye on their economy as he continues to attack entrepreneurialism, proprietary rights, etc.

How long can he rely on oil to fund his socialist policies?
For as long as oil is as desperately coveted as it is now. And you know that the price of oil is only going to keep creeping up...Venezuela is in an excellent position right now with the whole Iran issue.

But the point is not to become a nation wholly reliant on oil revenue. It's to create a system whereby the nation can become more self-reliant. Educate the poor, ensure that they have jobs and aren't dying of preventable diseases and you have less of a drain on social systems. Make sure your revenue doesn't float off into the pockets of foreign interests...make sure it's actually working for you. The more you put into your people, the more you get out of them. You can't approach this as a quick fix, and imagine that it will always be a system supported by oil, and therefore doomed to fail. If Chavez manages to hold onto his position, and get these reforms through and working, the system will begin to support itself.

I'll keep an interested eye on their economy as he continues to attack entrepreneurialism, proprietary rights, etc.

How long can he rely on oil to fund his socialist policies?

But thats kinda the whole point to what he's doing.
He's using the money from oil revenues to 'germinate' domestic infrastructure for the future.

A healthy, well educated and literate population will do wonders for the country in the future- much more then the oil could do when that eventually expires.

It's actually a good policy. I hope it works out for them.

In May of 2005, in my second blog, I wrote about Chavez's move to build a 1.5 million man army to threaten America's allies in the region.

A South American Stalin
The following is based on an article in a February issue of US News and World Report.


While the US fights terrorism abroad there is a huge threat to growing just to the south.

Particularly from the alliance between Cuba and Venezuela's bloodthirsty dictator, Hugo Chavez.
Since achieving power in Venezuela, Chavez has left no stone unturned in his declarations that he seeks the destruction of the United States. In one speech this deluded madman demanded that the US give the southwest back to Mexico.

He changed his nation's constitution to give himself absolute power. Any verbal statement that criticizes his regime is punishable by up to 15 years in prison.

And as if persecuting his people weren't enough, President Chavez is openly supporting the terrorist group FARC, a group known for abducting and beheading Americans. Several international organizations have reported that FARC has recieved arms and money from the Chavez regime which gives them refuge inside Venezuela, from which they launch terrorist attacks against civilians in Colombia. At times, Venezuelan agents were seen in Colombia assisting FARC in its attacks on Colombian forces. Not only is Chavez supporting FARC, but he openly declares his support for such groups as Al Qaeda and is suspected of being part of a group that has been smuggling cash to insurgents in Iraq.
Madman Chavez's illegal interference in Colombian internal affairs and his support of the world's worst international terrorist organizations is all part of his self declared jihad against the evil American capitalist empire.

More troubling news is that he has made alliance with Cuba's Castro. In a treaty signed by the two men, Chavez granted Cuban judicial and security officials extensive police powers inside Venezuela. Thousands of Venezuelans have already been forced at gun point into reeducation camps and the military is being reindoctrinated. And the treaty allows the cubans to bypass the Venezuelan judiciary and seize any one inside Venezuela both cuban and venezuelan, and they even have to power to take them to Cuba for trial.
Tens of thousands of Venezuelan youth were forcibly taken to Cuba for indoctrination. At least 2 or 3 Americans aid workers are sitting in Venezuelan prisons. Their only crime having been that they are Americans.

Just recently Chavez announced he was going to build 1.5 million man army to attack US allies in the region. And the Europeans are helping him. Certain European nations recently sold him state of the art attack aircraft. The White House has protested the sales but the Europeans went ahead anyway. Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice has spoken out against Chavez's long list of human rights abuses and his attempts to overthrow governments throughout the western hemisphere.

Even the election that brought Chavez to power was a fraud. In the election that gave Chavez regime credibility, various elections monitors have alleged vote fraud.
Former President Carter's group observed less than 1% of the ballots counted when it endorsed Chavez's victory. Of the 192 ballots that were supposed to have been counted, only 76 actually were. And Chavez regime picked which ballots from which towns would be counted. So that not every Venezuelans vote counted. Professors from Harvard and MIT have issued reports revealing there is a 99% likelihood that the election was a fraud.

We must go beyond protesting arms sales and condemning Chavez human rights violations. We must take him to task for his violation Colombian soverignty. Further we must impose sanctions. While we get oil from Venezuela, this can be replaced by increasing our purchase of Russian oil or by allowing drilling in Alaska. We must also demand the release of all Americans being illegally held in Cuban and Venezuelan prisons. And we must be ready to back up our demands with force. If we don't, we will soon find ourselves confronting 1.5 million army just south of our own border.

That's my two cents.


The US NEWS and World Report is the most reliable news source on earth.
This is one of the predictions I made in 2005, and now it is coming true and Chavez is becoming a real national security threat to the United States and its allies.

What crap. You're not up on world affairs or matters of the poor. I had a long reply typed out, then the server died, so I'll sum it up: that "article" is full of shit. Show me a quote where Chavez says he's going to destroy America, you racist right-wing freak. And US News and World Reports is as fair and balanced as Fox News.

Na, you're misusing the term 'yank'. Everyone knows it's for the latin-american hating, imperialist USians!:D
I understand, but it sometimes gets tiring when language is used that feels like it lumps Americans and Bush supporters into one basket. Remember, his approval ratings are as low as any president's ever has been. Yeah, we did elect him twice, but the first time he actually lost the popular vote and the second time he won it was the closest margin ever in an election. Most Americans are fed up with this admin and its foreign policy and that's gonna show in November.

On land expropriation: Latin America is awash in land that is underutilised. Why on earth should countries be importing food that they can produce at home? What creates that situation are the selfsame agricultural subsidies that Western nations insist the developing world do without. Buying onions from abroad then becomes cheaper than producing them yourself, and land is used for 'cash crops' that often suffer the same fate as food crops...the market bottoms out and the cash crops are not only worthless...but also indigestible.

The land should benefit the nation, not the few rich absentee land barons.

I'll keep an interested eye on their economy as he continues to attack entrepreneurialism, proprietary rights, etc.

How long can he rely on oil to fund his socialist policies?
I agree that socialism is bankrupt, but isn't that kinda their problem? The majority of people there want him as president. When his experiment fails, they'll vote him out. In the meantime, why can't we just mind our own business, buy their oil and sell them stuff we make out of it? He can't harm us and his rhetoric is just a rather transparent way of gaining popular support that only works because of our foriegn policy towards South America.

The last election was internationally monitored, and cleared as 'fair'.

One catch. The opposition pulled out and refused to participate.

Now consider this. You know who is going to win. Do you still bother to vote?

Voter turnout was very low. But it makes sense, doesn't it?

And now, the opposition parties no longer exist.

Why?

If you don't hold any seats in a government, your party does not exist, period.

Take all those explanations out though, and you get this:

"Voter turnout proves that people do not support Chavez, and therefore, the election is fraudulent. Chavez has also declared that opposition parties are dissolved."

Amazing how you can spin things.

Why did the opposition pull out? Was it because they were losing that badly, or was it because someone had "gotten to them"? And is it already pre-determined that Chavez will "win" the next election, therefore they don't need another candidate?

I understand, but it sometimes gets tiring when language is used that feels like it lumps Americans and Bush supporters into one basket.
That's okay. If you travel Latin America, you'll find that most people won't care that you're from the US, unless you start frothing at the mouth and screaming about communism. Then you get the yanqui label:cool:

2. Hugo Chavez is supporting Iran and Hamas against the world:

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/14156502.htm

Earlier Tuesday, Chavez defended Iran's nuclear program, accusing the Bush administration of falsely accusing Iran of trying to build an atomic bomb as a pretext for seizing control of the Middle Eastern nation's vast petroleum reserves.

Twenty-seven of the 35 members of the International Atomic Energy Agency, the U.N. nuclear watchdog, voted in January to refer Iran to the Security Council over concerns about its nuclear program. Venezuela voted against it.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/C9DFE280-E615-4FEB-ADE5-6708D459E9B8.htm

Chavez backs Iran from AlJazeera

After a meeting with Iranian President Muhammad Khatami on Friday, Chavez said both countries rejected the imperialist policies of the United States

Khatami said both Iran and Venezuela will stand firm against any aggression and lamented "the injustice of the great powers that try to control the world"

Sounds like a military alliance to me.

"Iran and Venezuela, these two brothers, are and will be together forever," Chavez said. "Iran, confronted by the United States, has our solidarity

Chavez presented Khatami with the Order of the Liberator – the country's highest decoration – calling it a symbol of their strong ties.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4336169.stm

Hugo Chavez and Mohammad Khatami are expected to sign a number of energy deals during President Khatami's three-day visit to Caracas

When the UN Security Council issues its sanctions after the 28th, that deal will be illegal.

http://www.aljazeera.com/me.asp?service_ID=7435

Venezuela's President Hugo Chavez defended Iran over its dispute with the U.S. and Europe regarding its nuclear program

http://www.worldthreats.com/latin_america/Iran-Chavez%20Alliance.htm

in depth article on the alliance between Iran and Venezuelan dictator Hugo Chavez.

He also has ties to Al Qaeda:

according to Major Diaz Castillo of the Venezuelan Air force, who was Chavez’s personal pilot until he defected, that he was ordered by Chavez to provide $1 million to al-Qaeda following 9/11, and that he witnessed the providing of Venezuelan identity cards to known terrorists on FBI watch lists

Chavez has been called the "anti-Bush." He has embraced virtually every enemy of the United States, past and present, from Saddam Hussein to Moammar Khaddafy to the Taliban and Iran.

An important early advisor to Chavez was an Argentine Holocaust-denier named Norberto Ceresole.

He hates America and like Iran's president he denies the holocaust.

Ceresole believed that Latin America must forge alliances with Arab nations to fight against the United States and what Ceresole called "the Jewish financial mafia." And a few months ago, Chavez played a major role in the first South American-Arab Summit in Brazil, which attacked both the United States and Israel as the chief enemies of Latin America

Again on his support for terrorism:
And although his government repeatedly denies it, a large body of evidence suggests that Chavez is harboring and supporting the FARC guerillas of neighboring Colombia, one of the largest and most dangerous terrorist organizations in the world.


http://www.iranmania.com/News/ArticleView/Default.asp?NewsCode=36118&NewsKind=Current%20Affairs

Venezuela opposed sending the Iran nuclear issue to the security council.

http://gnn.tv/headlines/8511/Hugo_Chavez_Seeks_Alliance_With_Iran

The headline puts it plain: Hugo Chavez seeks alliance with Iran

3. Chavez is seeking nuclear technology:see last link above and links below

He is also seeking Iranian nuclear technology and is trying to create an alliance with Hamas.

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20060410-123504-8592r.htm
Chavez turns to Iran for nuclear technology
Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez is seeking to deepen ties with Iran, with discussions on holding joint military exercises and obtaining uranium

Again he is supporting Hamas:

"Hamas also is talking to Caracas about sending representatives to Venezuela to raise money for the militant group's newly elected Palestinian government."

The Washington Times reported in October that the Chavez government had made overtures to Iran about obtaining nuclear technology. The U.S. and European allies are now trying to force Tehran to give up its stated ambition to enrich uranium, a possible first step to building nuclear weapons.
U.S. officials told The Times that talks now include discussions on Venezuela's obtaining uranium for what is feared to be a fledgling nuclear program in Caracas.
"Hugo Chavez has been clearly talking to Iran about uranium," said a senior administration official, who asked not to be named.

Mr. Chavez has endorsed Tehran's nuclear ambitions, and voiced support for the terror insurgency in Iraq."


There you have it, Hugo Chavez is supporting the terrorists operating in Iraq.
Hugo Chavez may be seeking nuclear weapons.
A State Department official said the administration is also concerned about the overtures Venezuela is making toward Hamas, the militant organization that executes terror attacks on Israel and recently won Palestinian parliamentary elections.
"We certainly are concerned about the ongoing relationship with Venezuela and a number of countries of concern, not just Iran, but Hamas and others," the official said."

4. Hugo Chavez is embracing Hamas:
http://english.pravda.ru/world/americas/16-02-2006/76016-Venezuela-0

Chavez this year also will embrace the Harakat al-Muqawamah al-Islamiyya (Islamic Resistance Movement), Hamas, which on Jan. 25 won 76 of 132 seats in the Palestinian parliamentary elections, giving the group the right to form the next Cabinet. The U.S. government considers Hamas a terrorist organization. Hamas leaders already vowed they will never recognize Israel and refused to renounce violence to achieve their political aims.

5. Why does it seem like Chavez hates Israel:
http://www.tpmcafe.com/story/2006/1/4/18461/81161

"The world has enough for all, but a minority, the descendants of those who crucified Christ, the descendants of those who cast out Bolivar from here and also crucified him in a way in Santa Marta, over in Colombia--a minority has appropriated the riches of the world, a minority has appropriated the gold of the planet, the silver, minerals, water, good earth, petroleum, wealth, and has concentrated it in a small number of hands. "

That was a translation of part of speech the Chavez gave, ranting against jews.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull&cid=1136361025285

6. Chavez is seeking to rig US elections:

http://www.littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=19859_US_Voting_Machines_Controlled_by_Venezuela&only

More to come.
Why does it seem that Chavez hates jews and is supporting Iran's and Hamas's quest to remove Israel from the map? Good question. I didn't know about his anti Israel tendencies until just now. But now I know, I think I will dig further.

Why did the opposition pull out? Was it because they were losing that badly, or was it because someone had "gotten to them"? And is it already pre-determined that Chavez will "win" the next election, therefore they don't need another candidate?Pulling out was their form of protest, to undermine the elections. It backfired.

They can certainly run candidates the next time around. Hopefully the next time they won't stoop to childish antics like cutting of their nose to spite their face.

I agree that socialism is bankrupt, but isn't that kinda their problem? The majority of people there want him as president. When his experiment fails, they'll vote him out. In the meantime, why can't we just mind our own business, buy their oil and sell them stuff we make out of it? He can't harm us and his rhetoric is just a rather transparent way of gaining popular support that only works because of our foriegn policy towards South America.

yes, it is their problem. they voted him in, and now they have to deal with the consequences.

The poor might like the free health care, free food, etc., now... but what happens when the oil revenue runs out? Will there be anyone left to tax the hell out of?

I do apologize for calling him a Communist (well he sort of is, if you compare his actions to past Communist dictators)... but having been popularly elected, he's just a socialist despot. hehe

Pulling out was their form of protest, to undermine the elections. It backfired.

They can certainly run candidates the next time around. Hopefully the next time they won't stoop to childish antics like cutting of their nose to spite their face.

Ok, in that case they got what they deserved.

Was Chavez elected in fair elections, or were they rigged banana-republic "elections"?
the latter

Your rent is so ridiculous that I wonder why I answer to it... but well, some may believe what you write, and that would be dangerous. There are so many lies and manipulation of information against Chavez that we need constant vigilance to restore the truth.

In May of 2005, in my second blog, I wrote about Chavez's move to build a 1.5 million man army to threaten America's allies in the region.

Which allies ? Mexico were Vincente Fox is about to lose the next elections ? Columbia, the country controlled by drug trafficants and their private militias ? USA doesn't have much more allies in South America. 60 years of supporting coups, dictators, paramilitary forces, ... sapped all popular support to USA inside most of South America.

While the US fights terrorism abroad there is a huge threat to growing just to the south.

That's probably one point were you are right: Chavez' Venezuela is a threat to US imperialism. If most south american were fed up of US imperialism since long, few governements dared to openly defy the ones who acted as their master for so long. Chavez is really threatening US control over the region.

Particularly from the alliance between Cuba and Venezuela's bloodthirsty dictator, Hugo Chavez.

Hugo Chavez even refused to let the loyal forces open fire against the putschists in 2002, prefering to surrender himself than to spit blood. Protests against Chavez are common, and none were ever repressed. Even strikes were not. Even the ones who tried the coup in 2002 were set free.

Since achieving power in Venezuela, Chavez has left no stone unturned in his declarations that he seeks the destruction of the United States.

Chavez is denying the right USA claims to have to be the world leader, and to control South America. That's all what he did. But he still helped the New Orleans citizen after Katarina, much more than Bush himself did.

He changed his nation's constitution to give himself absolute power.

The 1999 Constitution was writen by an _elected_ Constitutional Assembly, and validated by a referendum with 70% victory. Chavez himself didn't write it.

But did you read the content of this Constitution ? It's one of the most democratic of the world, including the recall referendum at every level.

Any verbal statement that criticizes his regime is punishable by up to 15 years in prison.

On the 7 national TV stations, 6 are openly, strongly against Chavez. In 2002, in the two months before the coup, they diffused 14 000, yes, 14 THOUSANDS clips against the President. They supported the coup as soon as it started, spreading lies over lies. When Chavez came back in power 2 days after the coup, because of millions of Venezuelian taking the street to protest against the coup, he didn't do a single move against the media. They all kept their right to broadcast, no journalist nor media owner faced a court.

Stop spreading lies.

And as if persecuting his people weren't enough, President Chavez is openly supporting the terrorist group FARC, a group known for abducting and beheading Americans. Several international organizations have reported that FARC has recieved arms and money from the Chavez regime which gives them refuge inside Venezuela, from which they launch terrorist attacks against civilians in Colombia. At times, Venezuelan agents were seen in Colombia assisting FARC in its attacks on Colombian forces.

Have you anything to back your claims ? Accusation of Chavez supporting the FARC are many, but even the right-wing president of Columbia admitted there is no proof of it.

Meanwhile, the US and Columbia governements are supporting the drug dealers private militia, whose crimes are much, much worse than the ones of the FARC, including torture, random public execution to intimidate citizen, ...

Not only is Chavez supporting FARC, but he openly declares his support for such groups as Al Qaeda and is suspected of being part of a group that has been smuggling cash to insurgents in Iraq.

Once again, do you have anything to back your claims ?

More troubling news is that he has made alliance with Cuba's Castro. In a treaty signed by the two men, Chavez granted Cuban judicial and security officials extensive police powers inside Venezuela. Thousands of Venezuelans have already been forced at gun point into reeducation camps and the military is being reindoctrinated.

That's just an utter lie.

The treaty between Castro and Chavez is a "oil for knowledge" treaty. Chavez gives cheap oil to Castro, while Castro sends teachers and doctors to Venezuela. That's all.

Just recently Chavez announced he was going to build 1.5 million man army to attack US allies in the region.

A nice other double lie. He said he was training a 1 million man militia to defend Venezuela in case of invasion. It's a reserve army, a civilian militia, completly unprepared, unequiped, and unallowed to act outside Venezuela.

And the Europeans are helping him. Certain European nations recently sold him state of the art attack aircraft. The White House has protested the sales but the Europeans went ahead anyway.

European nations fullfilled the contracts signed by Venezuela and them from even before Chavez was elected.

Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice has spoken out against Chavez's long list of human rights abuses and his attempts to overthrow governments throughout the western hemisphere.

Sure, the "human rights abuses" list from the ones torturing in Guantanamo Bay is trustworthy. Oh, btw, which governement did Chavez tried to overthrow ?

Even the election that brought Chavez to power was a fraud.

All powers were held by Chavez oponents at that time. But sure, it was a fraud.

In the election that gave Chavez regime credibility, various elections monitors have alleged vote fraud.

Which one ? Chavez won 9 elections in 8 years.

Former President Carter's group observed less than 1% of the ballots counted when it endorsed Chavez's victory.

They checked the ballots at random, and saw no single amount of fraud. Opposition was also able to control ballots at random, and were not able to list a single factual case of fraud. Carter's foundation and other international observers all said the election was clean.

Of the 192 ballots that were supposed to have been counted, only 76 actually were. And Chavez regime picked which ballots from which towns would be counted.

That's just a lie.

We must go beyond protesting arms sales and condemning Chavez human rights violations.

Can you point me to any single one ?

We must take him to task for his violation Colombian soverignty.

USA violated Venezuelian soverignity by supporting the coup in 2002. Columbia violated Venezuelian soverignity when a group of columbian paramilitaries were arrested in Caracas attempting to murder Chavez. While no single proof of Chavez supporting the FARC was ever given. Chavez always said he supported a political, negociated solution to Columbia civil war, and never supported the FARC.

Further we must impose sanctions. While we get oil from Venezuela, this can be replaced by increasing our purchase of Russian oil

Human rights violation are much more numerous in Russia than even allieged to be in Venezuela. Russia crimes in Chechenya and numerous, include tortures, mass rape, slaughtering of civilians, ... And democracy in Russia, under the hands of former KGB officier Putine, is badly hurt.

We must also demand the release of all Americans being illegally held in Cuban and Venezuelan prisons.

Can you give me names, facts ?

Oh, and the Cuban held illegally in USA's prisons ? ;)


The US NEWS and World Report is the most reliable news source on earth.

If your post had the slightiest credibility left, this sentence completly wipped it out.

yes, it is their problem. they voted him in, and now they have to deal with the consequences.

The poor might like the free health care, free food, etc., now... but what happens when the oil revenue runs out? Will there be anyone left to tax the hell out of?

I do apologize for calling him a Communist (well he sort of is, if you compare his actions to past Communist dictators)... but having been popularly elected, he's just a socialist despot. hehe
My point is why have the anti-Chavez rhetoric or the interference in Venezuelan internal affairs? It is the fact that we do that that makes his rhetoric work. We shoudl just kick back, have some meetings with him every once in a while, buy his oil, sell him food and let them deal with their problems. After a while they'll forget that they hate us and his rhetoric will stop striking a cord with their populace. In the meantime they can't hurt us in any way. the most they could do is stop selling their oil to us but as long as it stays on the market it will not effect the price and we can buy it from someone else. That's all beside the point, though, because he's not gonna stop selling us oil. He certainly can't hurt us with an army of 500 indians with bows and arrows...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3571350.stm

Do you know how long it took to find a link from a reputable source?

Most of the sites that Google came up with were either blindly supportive of Chavez or blindly critical.
yeah i've noticed that. That and the fact I'm having internet troubles are the reasons why I am responding so slowly.

yes, it is their problem. they voted him in, and now they have to deal with the consequences.

The poor might like the free health care, free food, etc., now... but what happens when the oil revenue runs out? Will there be anyone left to tax the hell out of?


Again, consider that those people will only remain poor if Chavez fails. He has a limited amount of time in which to prove that he can do this. Much is against him. If he can't fulfill his promises, his popular support will vanish. The best chance the US has to get him out of power is to block his programs and let him fall because of it.

But if he succeeds, he will be bringing people out of poverty not with handouts alone, but with improved health, improved education and job prospects...creating a class of people who will be able to earn the money that will support the system.

For as long as oil is as desperately coveted as it is now. And you know that the price of oil is only going to keep creeping up...Venezuela is in an excellent position right now with the whole Iran issue.

But the point is not to become a nation wholly reliant on oil revenue. It's to create a system whereby the nation can become more self-reliant. Educate the poor, ensure that they have jobs and aren't dying of preventable diseases and you have less of a drain on social systems. Make sure your revenue doesn't float off into the pockets of foreign interests...make sure it's actually working for you. The more you put into your people, the more you get out of them. You can't approach this as a quick fix, and imagine that it will always be a system supported by oil, and therefore doomed to fail. If Chavez manages to hold onto his position, and get these reforms through and working, the system will begin to support itself.
He's also receiving financial support from the drug cartels.

1. On Hugo Chavez's ties to international terrorism.


http://www.vcrisis.com/index.php?content=letters/200604140802


How can you trust a website which is openly linked to the same anti-Chavez opposition that tried to replace an elected president (Chavez) with a dictatorship by a coup d'État in 2002 ? The same opposition that openly lied and manipulated images to gain support for its coup, and finally failed utterly when millions of Venezuelian took the street to ask to have their President back ?

Read about what really happened, April 11, 2002 ! And after that, if you still trust anti-Chavez media, you're brainless.

What crap. You're not up on world affairs or matters of the poor. I had a long reply typed out, then the server died, so I'll sum it up: that "article" is full of shit. Show me a quote where Chavez says he's going to destroy America, you racist right-wing freak. And US News and World Reports is as fair and balanced as Fox News.

Wow, very mature. Call the other side rascist for no reason! :rolleyes:

Has history taught us nothing?

COMMUNIST LEADERS/REGIMES ARE INVARIABLY TOTALITARIAN, CUT DOWN ON HUMAN RIGHTS MAJORLY, etc.

(can't believe y'all haven't learned this... Chavez's antics should come as no surprise)

False. Paris' Commune, Allende's Chile are two counter-examples, and enough to make your claim false.

What history taught us is that capitalists do not, and will never, accept democratic socialism. They'll try to crush it by any means, war, coup, murder, bloodbath, media manipulation, ... And that's what they are trying against Chavez.

sounds like our friend adolf, fraudulant election bye bye opposition, here are some guns, no war this time though you yanks love a conspiracy theory

Was Chavez elected in fair elections, or were they rigged banana-republic "elections"?

He won 9 elections in 8 years, several of them have been validated by internation observers, including the Jimmy Carter center.

Why did the opposition pull out? Was it because they were losing that badly, or was it because someone had "gotten to them"? And is it already pre-determined that Chavez will "win" the next election, therefore they don't need another candidate?


Oddly because every candidate has to be approved by a commision staffed in the main by chavez's party.

I.E. you can only stand for election if the current government approves of you...... can you imagine the uproar if the US had a law like that?

Still he's playing a clever game, by attacking the US (verbally), it gives the peoplel an enemy to hate ( 2 minute hate anyone? ) .
So as and when things start going wrong, it wont be Chavez's fault it will be the US' fault according to Chavez

What crap. You're not up on world affairs or matters of the poor. I had a long reply typed out, then the server died, so I'll sum it up: that "article" is full of shit. Show me a quote where Chavez says he's going to destroy America, you racist right-wing freak. And US News and World Reports is as fair and balanced as Fox News.
Don't blame US News and World Report. The name was just added to the piece to give it legitimacy. You'll notice it says it is "based" on an article from US News and World Report. What that means is that he took a couple facts from the article and then wrote his own piece.

Again, consider that those people will only remain poor if Chavez fails. He has a limited amount of time in which to prove that he can do this. Much is against him. If he can't fulfill his promises, his popular support will vanish. The best chance the US has to get him out of power is to block his programs and let him fall because of it.

But if he succeeds, he will be bringing people out of poverty not with handouts alone, but with improved health, improved education and job prospects...creating a class of people who will be able to earn the money that will support the system.

there's just one problem:

which business leaders are gonna stick around to start and run the businesses?

Who would want to start a business with 90% tax prospects (or whatever they are, I'm assuming they're prohibitive)?

Or is his government going to provide every job?

He won 9 elections in 8 years, several of them have been validated by internation observers, including the Jimmy Carter center.

well, isn't that surprising... an American Democrat validating the election of a socialist.

:)

Why did the opposition pull out? Was it because they were losing that badly, or was it because someone had "gotten to them"? And is it already pre-determined that Chavez will "win" the next election, therefore they don't need another candidate?

Because they lost all the previous ones with a nearly 60% majority for Chavez, and they were sure it would be the same. All polls were giving Chavez victorious by at least 60%. So they prefered to pull out, and avoid a new "60%" on the list of Chavez victories.

well, isn't that surprising... an American Democrat validating the election of a socialist.

:)
:rolleyes:
Like they have anything to do with eachother
And there were also EU observers.

Venezuela's bloodthirsty dictator, Hugo Chavez.

I got as far as that and decided the post was one of those things too pathetic to bother with. Utter bollocks.

2. Hugo Chavez is supporting Iran and Hamas against the world:

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/14156502.htmChavez is supporting the sovereignty of a country that is in a similar situation as Venezuela!

Whodathunkit!!!?? By the way, the article doesn't mention Hamas at all

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/C9DFE280-E615-4FEB-ADE5-6708D459E9B8.htm

Chavez backs Iran from AlJazeera

see above.

Sounds like a military alliance to me.

Not to me.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4336169.stm

Hugo Chavez and Mohammad Khatami are expected to sign a number of energy deals during President Khatami's three-day visit to Caracas

When the UN Security Council issues its sanctions after the 28th, that deal will be illegal.

Why shouldn't two countries in OPEC who are trying to diversify their energy resources make energy deals? And why should other countries judge it as illegal, if it doesn't effect them at all?

http://www.aljazeera.com/me.asp?service_ID=7435

Venezuela's President Hugo Chavez defended Iran over its dispute with the U.S. and Europe regarding its nuclear program

Which is fine, since Iran is not developing nuclear weapons.

http://www.worldthreats.com/latin_america/Iran-Chavez%20Alliance.htm

in depth article on the alliance between Iran and Venezuelan dictator Hugo Chavez.

I'm not even touching this steaming turd of biased misinformation.

http://www.iranmania.com/News/ArticleView/Default.asp?NewsCode=36118&NewsKind=Current%20Affairs



Venezuela opposed sending the Iran nuclear issue to the security council.

Repetition is tautological.

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20060410-123504-8592r.htm
Chavez turns to Iran for nuclear technology
Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez is seeking to deepen ties with Iran, with discussions on holding joint military exercises and obtaining uranium

Again he is supporting Hamas:

"Hamas also is talking to Caracas about sending representatives to Venezuela to raise money for the militant group's newly elected Palestinian government."

According to the Bush administration. They are very honest about people's ties to terrorist organisations.:rolleyes: Note: many countries give money to the Palestinian government.

4. Hugo Chavez is embracing Hamas:
http://english.pravda.ru/world/americas/16-02-2006/76016-Venezuela-0

You're quoting Pravda?:D :D :D

5. Why does it seem like Chavez hates Israel:
http://www.tpmcafe.com/story/2006/1/4/18461/81161

"The world has enough for all, but a minority, the descendants of those who crucified Christ, the descendants of those who cast out Bolivar from here and also crucified him in a way in Santa Marta, over in Colombia--a minority has appropriated the riches of the world, a minority has appropriated the gold of the planet, the silver, minerals, water, good earth, petroleum, wealth, and has concentrated it in a small number of hands. "

After reading the speech in spanish, I see that he is not talking about Jews. He's talking about imperialists. But I could see how people who can't read the whole speech in the original can make that mistake.


6. Chavez is seeking to rig US elections:

http://www.littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=19859_US_Voting_Machines_Controlled_by_Venezuela&only

:rolleyes:

Do any of you have any real understanding of Latin America?

What was the situation, politically, economically and socially in Venezuela before Chavez managed to get himself elected? Do you know? It appears that a lot of you assume it was somewhat like the situation in the USA or Western Europe, well it was not.

Effectively Venezuela (and many other Latin American countries as well) was operating a feudal system. A few rich and powerful families controlled all of the economic and political power. (Chavez managed to break these barriers by choosing a military career - the only way it was possible) The land appropriations would not make sense if land distribution was as it is in the Western world, but it was not. One family owned one third of all of the feasably usable land in Venezuela, and most of this was not being used while the majority of the population lived below the poverty line.

My political views are Classic Liberal, laissez faire minimal government, but this position is dependent upon there being opportunity available. All that Chavez is doing (and I dislike his socialist views) is canceling out the effects of centuries of feudalism.

The same pattern can be seen in the Andean nations, and to some extent here in Brazil. So before you start bitching about what he is doing, try understanding the circumstances under which it is being done.

This is a total non-surprise.

The right-winger's heads would collectively explode if they were to learn the truth about how socialistic governments can be successful. Like how they found excuses for the initial successes in Nicaragua after the Sandinista revolution (yes, the government eventually fell due to corruption, but not because of the system itself). Poverty dropped, education, literacy, and health care went up. If the US had actually supported them, I think that country would be even better.

This is a BS smokescreen to make people hate a government that's actually working for its people. OMG but business will suffer!! Try again. OMG Chaves has ties to terrorists!! So does the US, and in fact the entire world can't help but fund Al Quaida, because Bin Laden controls more than 60% of the world's supply of gum arabic. Look it up.

Whitters--- is a bug. Hugo Chavez poses as much threat to America as San Marino. They're just freaked out cause nations like Venuzuela, Brazil, Argentina and Chile are now moving towards the left after years of trying hard right capitalism. Maybe they should of read how Argentina under Memem nearly collapsed or how under Pinochet, Chile had nearly 35% unemployment, extreme pollution and healthcare collapse. Chavez is mearly trying to bring his nation populace out of poverty using the oil wealth which pisses off the major oil companies and oil intrests. Unlike in Saudi Arabia, UAE or Kuwait which uses it's oil wealth to enrich the royal families.

Chavez is supporting the sovereignty of a country that is in a similar situation as Venezuela!

Whodathunkit!!!?? By the way, the article doesn't mention Hamas at all



see above.



Not to me.



Why shouldn't two countries in OPEC who are trying to diversify their energy resources make energy deals? And why should other countries judge it as illegal, if it doesn't effect them at all?



Which is fine, since Iran is not developing nuclear weapons.



I'm not even touching this steaming turd of biased misinformation.



Repetition is tautological.



According to the Bush administration. They are very honest about people's ties to terrorist organisations.:rolleyes: Note: many countries give money to the Palestinian government.



You're quoting Pravda?:D :D :D



After reading the speech in spanish, I see that he is not talking about Jews. He's talking about imperialists. But I could see how people who can't read the whole speech in the original can make that mistake.




:rolleyes:

It's not just the US that believes that Iran nuclear weapons ambitions but it is Europe and now even Russia and China are concerned that Iran may be seeking nukes. And we should concerned that Chavez may be seeking them now too.

Chavez is clearly antisemitic given his speech against jews, Americans weren't around to kill Christ. It is widely known that the Jews are falsely blamed by a lot of people for Jesus death. His comment could only have been directed at the jews.
This is backed by the fact he is supporting Hamas, Syria, and Iran: three governments who have pledged to wipe Israel off the face of the earth.

If Chavez didn't want war, if he wanted to be free to run his own affairs, then he should stop supporting terrorists groups like FARC and Al Qaeda. He should end his dealings with Iran and Hamas.

Contrary to you claims, most nations are not supporting Hamas. Only 3 nations are: Iran, Venezuela and Japan. I note that Japan has actually threatened to withdraw its aid unless Hamas takes back its call for Israel's annihilation.

I think we should let Israel deal with Iran and we can deal with Venezuela over here. Or we could just step back and let Israel beat the shit out of both of them as I am very sure Israel is capable as it is the most powerful nation in the middle east.

I'll never understand how you crazy yanks can talk so much shit about countries you've never seen and never met people from...all the while complaining about 'propaganda' while never questioning the propaganda you've been raised on.
Sinuhue, I find your reply superb. Frankly, only the opaque obstinance of American jingoism has carried this thread beyond your perfect comeback.

Chavez is clearly antisemitic given his speech against jews, Americans weren't around to kill Christ. It is widely known that the Jews are falsely blamed by a lot of people for Jesus death. His comment could only have been directed at the jews.

Did you miss the part where he said that you need to read the speach in Spanish? When you read the speach in Spanish you can clearly see that he's not refering to Jews. Learn some Spanish or STFU!

Chavez is clearly antisemitic given his speech against jews, Americans weren't around to kill Christ. It is widely known that the Jews are falsely blamed by a lot of people for Jesus death. His comment could only have been directed at the jews.
This is backed by the fact he is supporting Hamas, Syria, and Iran: three governments who have pledged to wipe Israel off the face of the earth.

Typical right-wing rhetoric......If you don't like thier views you call them an commie or a anti-semite/nazi. Despite the fact that right-wingers themselves are anti-semitic and believe in the whole "Rothschild Banking/Protocols of the Elders of Zion" crap. Henry Ford, Charles Lindbergh.........

I'm still waiting for Whittier to respond to this post (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10800619&postcount=53) by Kilobugya.


Well, since not all of us speak Spanish, would you be kind enough to translate the relevant parts for us?

It's not just the US that believes that Iran nuclear weapons ambitions but it is Europe and now even Russia and China are concerned that Iran may be seeking nukes. And we should concerned that Chavez may be seeking them now too.

Please provide cites.

Chavez is clearly antisemitic given his speech against jews, Americans weren't around to kill Christ. It is widely known that the Jews are falsely blamed by a lot of people for Jesus death. His comment could only have been directed at the jews.

I read the speech in spanish. He spoke of Jesus as the first socialist fighting against Roman imperialism, which is why the Roman imperialists killed him.

This is backed by the fact he is supporting Hamas, Syria, and Iran: three governments who have pledged to wipe Israel off the face of the earth.

Canada sends money to the Palestine government, i.e. Hamas. So does the USA. Are they anti-semitic?
Please provide a credible cite with respect to Chavez supporting Syria and Syria's anti-semitism, and how this proves Chavez is an anti-semite.

If Chavez didn't want war, if he wanted to be free to run his own affairs, then he should stop supporting terrorists groups like FARC and Al Qaeda. He should end his dealings with Iran and Hamas.

There is no proof that he supports FARC or Al-Qaeda.

Contrary to you claims, most nations are not supporting Hamas. Only 3 nations are: Iran, Venezuela and Japan. I note that Japan has actually threatened to withdraw its aid unless Hamas takes back its call for Israel's annihilation.

Many countries do not give money to Hamas, they give it to the Palestinian Authority, which is currently run by Hamas.

I think we should let Israel deal with Iran and we can deal with Venezuela over here. Or we could just step back and let Israel beat the shit out of both of them as I am very sure Israel is capable as it is the most powerful nation in the middle east.

I'm sure that Venezuela, and the rest of Latin America would love it if you left them alone.

Yes, abroad. Venezuela isn't abroad from the point of view of America. Chavez isn't perfect, his economic policies are a bit dodgy, but the people of Venezuela want him there. TG4, an Irish language tv station happened to have a camera crew in there when all that stuff with CIA sponsered coup's went down. Check it out... Also, he gives cheap heating oil to the poor of Boston. Surely thats gotta give him some good karma...

Gift-of-God, Noam Chomsky even thinks that Iran are heading towards nukes. but why? COS WITHOUT THEM THEY WILL BE VULNERABLE! What better way to avoid an invasion than have a weapon that can obliterate an army in seconds? Attacking people makes them more likely to try and kick their ass. Case in point - Japan in 1941 attacked without provocation the US at Pearl Harbour. America had 150,000 men under arms- old, badly kept ones. By 1943 the US had about 3 million men under arms. By the end of 1945 about 5 million men and had developed and used nuclear arms. Mess with other countries and you'll have serious problems.

orginal text:

El mundo tiene para todos, pues, pero resulta que unas minor�, los descendientes de los mismos que crucificaron a Cristo, los descendientes de los mismos que echaron a Bol�r de aqu� tambi鮠lo crucificaron a su manera en Santa Marta, allᠥn Colombia. Una minor�se adue��e las riquezas del mundo, una minor�se adue��el oro del planeta, de la plata, de los minerales, de las aguas, de las tierras buenas, del petr��, de las riquezas, pues, y han concentrado las riquezas en pocas manos



as translated at http://www.worldlingo.com/en/products_services/worldlingo_translator.html

The world has for all, then, but it is that a minor, the descendants of such who crucificaron to Christ, the descendants of such who threw to Bowl?r of aqu? tambi?lo crucificaron to their way in Santa Marta, all?n Colombia. A minor?adue?.e the wealth of the world, a minor?adue?.el gold of the planet, of the silver, of minerals, of waters, of good earth, of petr., of the wealth, then, and they have concentrated the wealth in few hands


Note that it refers to Christ killers. Again, I submit that Americans were not around to kill Christ but that is common among the masses to blame jews for Jesus' death.

As translated here:
http://www.google.com/language_tools?hl=en

The world has for all, then, but it is that a minor, the descendants of such who crucificaron to Christ, the descendants of such who threw to Bol?r of aqu? tambi?lo crucificaron to their way in Santa Marta, all?n Colombia. One minor?se adue?e the wealth of the world, one minor?se adue?el gold of the planet, the silver, minerals, waters, good earth, petr, of the wealth, then, and they have concentrated the wealth in few hands


again he can only be referring the jews since Americans as a people were not around at the time of christ and were not involved in the trials at Jesus crucifixion. Chavez, here, is talking about Jews, not imperialist Americans or imperialist Europeans.
It is common knowledge that for centuries the Jews were blamed for Jesus death. It is common knowledget that for centuries the Jews were blamed for supposedly hording all the world's wealth.
I can see how rhetoric like this helped get Chavez elected. It also helped Hitler get himself elected and it helped Iran's current leader get elected also. To prevent the people turning against you, always point the finger at an outside source: and for millenia that scapegoat has been the Jews. It's no surprise that Chavez hates America, being that America is a strong ally of Israel.

The socialists can spin Chavez anti jew speech any way they want. They can't claim, truthfully, that he was not talking about jews.

The man is an anti semetic son of a bitch and if I didn't like him before I sure as hell don't like him now.

My political views are Classic Liberal, laissez faire minimal government, but this position is dependent upon there being opportunity available. All that Chavez is doing (and I dislike his socialist views) is canceling out the effects of centuries of feudalism.

yeah, it's a shame that so many people seem to have forgotten the revolutionary aspects of classical liberalism. who needs freedom when you can just support a feudal elite?

The same pattern can be seen in the Andean nations, and to some extent here in Brazil. So before you start bitching about what he is doing, try understanding the circumstances under which it is being done.

bah, 'facts' and 'context'. what have they ever done for us?

Gift-of-God, Noam Chomsky even thinks that Iran are heading towards nukes. but why? COS WITHOUT THEM THEY WILL BE VULNERABLE! What better way to avoid an invasion than have a weapon that can obliterate an army in seconds? Attacking people makes them more likely to try and kick their ass. Case in point - Japan in 1941 attacked without provocation the US at Pearl Harbour. America had 150,000 men under arms- old, badly kept ones. By 1943 the US had about 3 million men under arms. By the end of 1945 about 5 million men and had developed and used nuclear arms. Mess with other countries and you'll have serious problems.

Good point. However, that does not mean that Chavez supports nuclear proliferation, or that Venezuela is moving in that direction. I don't think you are saying that, but in NS, it helps to be as clear as possible.

Please provide cites.



I read the speech in spanish. He spoke of Jesus as the first socialist fighting against Roman imperialism, which is why the Roman imperialists killed him.



Canada sends money to the Palestine government, i.e. Hamas. So does the USA. Are they anti-semitic?
Please provide a credible cite with respect to Chavez supporting Syria and Syria's anti-semitism, and how this proves Chavez is an anti-semite.



There is no proof that he supports FARC or Al-Qaeda.



Many countries do not give money to Hamas, they give it to the Palestinian Authority, which is currently run by Hamas.



I'm sure that Venezuela, and the rest of Latin America would love it if you left them alone.Get YOUR facts straight. The Palestinian authority is now under sanctions precisely because it is now controlled by Hamas. Niether the US nor Europe are giving money to it. Israel sure as hell isn't giving them any money. Not even the arab states are giving them money. There are only 3 nations giving money to the Hamas controlled PA and I already listed them. Two of them are from people who hate Israel and the third has threatened to cut off funding unless Hamas recognizes Israel.

Edit: I almost forgot to note that the PA is bankrupt and unable to pay its own salaries because it NOT getting money from everyone.

again he can only be referring the jews since Americans as a people were not around at the time of christ and were not involved in the trials at Jesus crucifixion. Chavez, here, is talking about Jews, not imperialist Americans or imperialist Europeans.

so what did the jews do to simon bolivar?

one of the main reasons that venezula is a threat to international captilism (therefore it being attacked by nations such as us) is its policy of 'buying up' countires debt. due to VZ huge oil supplies it has a surplus of cash, it is using this to buy the debt owed by countires such as brazil, peru etc to international bodies ie world bank, imf. by cancellin the debt of south american countries it removes the reliance on international trade. it has long been accepted that debt is used to tie nations into long term trade agreements based on western rules. chavez is taking this power away from the international community, which is good for the region . this is why he is a dictator and a tyrant.

CHAVEZ wooohooo

Get YOUR facts straight. The Palestinian authority is now under sanctions precisely because it is now controlled by Hamas. Niether the US nor Europe are giving money to it. Israel sure as hell isn't giving them any money. Not even the arab states are giving them money. There are only 3 nations giving money to the Hamas controlled PA and I already listed them. Two of them are from people who hate Israel and the third has threatened to cut off funding unless Hamas recognizes Israel.

Edit: I almost forgot to note that the PA is bankrupt and unable to pay its own salaries because it NOT getting money from everyone.


but hamas was DEMOCRATICALY elected. bit hypocritical to remove funding when the palestinian peoples are complying with all international norms. imagine if the EU, CHINA refused to trade with bush because he got elected!

snip

It looks like you're the one doing the spinning here.

You are crazy to the point of comedy. Get some meds.

orginal text:

El mundo tiene para todos, pues, pero resulta que unas minorias, los descendientes de los mismos que crucificaron a Cristo, los descendientes de los mismos que echaron a Bolivar de aqui y tambien lo crucificaron a su manera en Santa Marta, alla en Colombia. Una minoria se adueño de las riquezas del mundo, una minoria se adueño del oro del planeta, de la plata, de los minerales, de las aguas, de las tierras buenas, del petroleo, de las riquezas, pues, y han concentrado las riquezas en pocas manos

Note that it refers to Christ killers. Again, I submit that Americans were not around to kill Christ but that is common among the masses to blame jews for Jesus' death.

Again he can only be referring to the jews since Americans as a people were not around at the time of christ and were not involved in the trials at Jesus crucifixion. Chavez, here, is talking about Jews, not imperialist Americans or imperialist Europeans.

It is common knowledge that for centuries the Jews were blamed for Jesus death. It is common knowledge that for centuries the Jews were blamed for supposedly hoarding all the world's wealth.

The socialists can spin Chavez anti jew speech any way they want. They can't claim, truthfully, that he was not talking about jews.

The man is an anti semetic son of a bitch and if I didn't like him before I sure as hell don't like him now.

Here's a better translation:

The world has enough for all, but a minority, the descendants of those who crucified Christ, the descendants of those who cast out Bolivar from here and also crucified him in a way in Santa Marta, over in Colombia--a minority has appropriated the riches of the world, a minority has appropriated the gold of the planet, the silver, minerals, water, good earth, petroleum, wealth, and has concentrated it in a small number of hands.

Did the Jews cast out Bolivar from Venezuela? No.
Did the Jews crucify anybody in Santa Marta, Colombia? No.
So how is Chavez talking about Jews?
Did, or do, the Jews have anything against socialists? No, but according to Chavez, that is why Jesus was crucified. See page 16 on:
http://www.gobiernoenlinea.gob.ve/docMgr/sharedfiles/Chavez_visita_Centro_Manantial_de_los_suenos24122005.pdf

English translation:Christ was and is one of the greatest revolutionaries of history and the first socialist of our era, the first socialist and for that they crucified him.

The US NEWS and World Report is the most reliable news source on earth.
According to who?

The article definitely is extremely opinionated and is highly inflamatory in the author's choice of words. The author offers no references and isn't even identified.

Hardly credible material. :p

Edit: Duh!! I just realized that you authored the attached article. I stand by my critique.

How about posting a link to the referenced article?

Get YOUR facts straight. The Palestinian authority is now under sanctions precisely because it is now controlled by Hamas. Niether the US nor Europe are giving money to it. Israel sure as hell isn't giving them any money. Not even the arab states are giving them money. There are only 3 nations giving money to the Hamas controlled PA and I already listed them. Two of them are from people who hate Israel and the third has threatened to cut off funding unless Hamas recognizes Israel.

Edit: I almost forgot to note that the PA is bankrupt and unable to pay its own salaries because it NOT getting money from everyone.


http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2006/03/29/1511050-cp.html

The Conservatives say they will still offer humanitarian aid to Palestinians through the United Nations and other agencies.

According to the article quoted, Hamas is not getting money but Palestine is. So you may be correct that that Hamas and the palestinian Authority are not receivin money from anyone, and that I was confused as governments are still giving money to Palestine.

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=122&art_id=qw1142410140708B215
However, Chavez is not supporting Hamas.

This is hilarious! I can't believe people are even giving this the time of day any more!

Whittier has finally lost the plot... let's just respond to the 'article' in the way it should be:

By gut laughing until it hurts. :D :D

This is hilarious! I can't believe people are even giving this the time of day any more!

Whittier has finally lost the plot... let's just respond to the 'article' in the way it should be:

By gut laughing until it hurts. :D :D

It's like I said. Crazy to the point of comedy

http://www.maar10.net/ateam/krant/murdock-krant.jpg

"Aww, c'mon B.A.!!"

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2006/03/29/1511050-cp.html

The Conservatives say they will still offer humanitarian aid to Palestinians through the United Nations and other agencies.

According to the article quoted, Hamas is not getting money but Palestine is. So you may be correct that that Hamas and the palestinian Authority are not receivin money from anyone, and that I was confused as governments are still giving money to Palestine.

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=122&art_id=qw1142410140708B215
However, Chavez is not supporting Hamas.
IOL?

He's also receiving financial support from the drug cartels.
Sure he is.

Sure he is.

You know it. And monkey's are also flying out of Madonna's butt as we speak!:eek:

I'll keep an interested eye on their economy as he continues to attack entrepreneurialism, proprietary rights, etc.

How long can he rely on oil to fund his socialist policies?
Maybe longer than the US capitalistic policies which continues to print money that has no effective backing, and a continuance of raising the US national debt ceiling, which was just raised to over $9 Trillion.

Congress Sets New Federal Debt Limit: $9 Trillion (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5282521)

The debt now stands at more than $8.2 trillion.

Like many cash-strapped Americans who have maxed-out credit cards, the federal government has hit its limit for borrowing funds to keep operating. If the limit isn't raised, the government likely will run out of borrowing authority within days, risking a shutdown.

When President Bush took office five years ago, the national debt was at $5.6 trillion; since then, big budget surpluses have collapsed into huge deficits, and the debt has shot up nearly 50 percent.

Hmmmmm

Whittier--- I know you say all this about Chavez to hide your feelings for him and the fact that you want to give him a beso negro

The same pattern can be seen in the Andean nations, and to some extent here in Brazil. So before you start bitching about what he is doing, try understanding the circumstances under which it is being done.
Thank you.

I'll never forget driving past the Errazuiz lands just south of Santiago, Chile. A sign declared the beginning of the land. Two hours later, a sign declared we'd reached the end. The people who live on that land, do so in much the way their grandparents, and great-grandparents did. At the behest of the patrón, paying rent for land they can never own, and working in the fields for a pittance, and the 'right' to remain.

Whittier--- I know you say all this about Chavez to hide your feelings for him and the fact that you want to give him a beso negro

Eeeeww. The Black Kiss!! LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!

Chavez is clearly antisemitic given his speech against jews, Americans weren't around to kill Christ. It is widely known that the Jews are falsely blamed by a lot of people for Jesus death. His comment could only have been directed at the jews.
Learn Spanish, because your translation stinks. We've done this one before. I'm sure you think 'negro' is Spanish for ****** too.

Chavez is clearly antisemitic given his speech against jews, Americans weren't around to kill Christ. It is widely known that the Jews are falsely blamed by a lot of people for Jesus death. His comment could only have been directed at the jews.

I thought this lie was debunked once and for all... but seems it's not.

Did you notice that Chavez spoke of both Jesus AND Bolivar, in the same sentence ? Did you know that jews HELPED Simon Bolivar ? What Chavez was targetting is imperialism. Jesus was killed by the Roman Empire because he defied them. Bolivar fought against the empire of his time, the Spanish colonial empire. And Chavez is fighting against the empire of his time: the American empire. That's what Chavez said.

If you had any clue about Venezeula's history, about who Bolivar was and how the Jew helped him, if you had any clue about the part of the catholic church Chavez is close to (the Liberation Theology, which always accused the roman empire, and never the jew, of killing Jesus), you wouldn't spread such lies.

But since the only view you have on Venezuela, Chavez, Bolivar and everything related to the situation comes from right-wing media who truncates Chavez' saying, mistranslate it (by translating "minorities" to "a minority", for example), you write insane accusations.

Oh, btw, I would remind you that the Venezuelian jewish organisation all said that Chavez was not antisemic. But sure, you know more than them...

Eeeeww. The Black Kiss!! LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!

lol - I just learned that term last night and had to use it somewhere! :D :eek: ;) :p

lol - I just learned that term last night and had to use it somewhere! :D :eek: ;) :p

Heh, I learned it a few years ago from some co-workers at my restaurant. It's amazing how fast you can pick up a language when you're immersed in it.

so what did the jews do to simon bolivar?

They helped him ;)

Nice to know the propagandists are still at work. If they weren't, doomsday would surely be near.

May Hugo Chávez be widely imitated; such heroic leaders are a rarity in today's world.

there's just one problem:

which business leaders are gonna stick around to start and run the businesses?

Who would want to start a business with 90% tax prospects (or whatever they are, I'm assuming they're prohibitive)?

Or is his government going to provide every job?

Foreign investment is up in Venezuela. The economy is booming. Hopefully, Chávez will exploit the good conditions and soon begin being more aggressive against the parasite class, towards a serious redistribution of wealth that amounts to more than social programs through oil money.

Nice to know the propagandists are still at work. If they weren't, doomsday would surely be near.

May Hugo Chávez be widely imitated; such heroic leaders are a rarity in today's world.



Foreign investment is up in Venezuela. The economy is booming.

Shhhhhh! You're sabotaging their reason to be greedy and hate on anything that isn't ruthless capitolism...

Gift-of-God, Noam Chomsky even thinks that Iran are heading towards nukes. but why? COS WITHOUT THEM THEY WILL BE VULNERABLE!

That's probably the most dramatic consequence of USA invasion of Irak.

USA proved to the world that they are ready to invade a sovereign country, breaking international laws and the UN charter, even if this country accepted to disband its weapons.

What should Iran do now ? USA proved that if you ever trust them, if you ever accept to stop arming yourself, they'll attack you.

Look at elections in Iran ! Look at how this fanatic was elected, at what campaign he did. It was simple: "Irak accepted to disarm. USA invaded them. If we don't want to be invaded, we have to be strong and refuse any deal with them". That's how he won the election.

By invading Irak after Saddam accepted to disband his weapons, USA made it impossible for any other country to ever accept to disarm peacefully. Every threat, every speak of invasion against Iran now will only INCREASE the risk of them developping the nuclear weapon.

That's the terrible consequence of Bush madness, of his disastrous breaking of the UN charter.

Heh, I learned it a few years ago from some co-workers at my restaurant. It's amazing how fast you can pick up a language when you're immersed in it.


You own a restaurant?

Yeah when I worked as a cook in several US States, I did pick up a bit of spanish, but I never learned to actually converse in it and my memory is horrible so I've forgotten most of what I learned anyway. I took french in school and can't remember shit. Woulda came in handy too, with my Honeymoon coming up int eh beginning of May.

You own a restaurant?

Yeah when I worked as a cook in several US States, I did pick up a bit of spanish, but I never learned to actually converse in it and my memory is horrible so I've forgotten most of what I learned anyway. I took french in school and can't remember shit. Woulda came in handy too, with my Honeymoon coming up int eh beginning of May.

Not own. I am the chef though. And, having at least passable conversational skill is almost required if you want to tell your crew what you need.

with my Honeymoon coming up int eh beginning of May.
DID I MISS THE WEDDING??????????

*feels terrible*

Not own. I am the chef though. And, having at least passable conversational skill is almost required if you want to tell your crew what you need.

Same here- worked alongside a lot of Poles and Bulgarians. It's crazy how fast you pick up the language.... and the insults are always the first to be learnt :D

Not own. I am the chef though. And, having at least passable conversational skill is almost required if you want to tell your crew what you need.


Awesome. Nearly every chef I have worked for has been awesome (except for the French chef who was very angry and violent and thought everyone was beneath him and should do whatever he said; he didn't have the slightest bit of jurisdiction over me but nearly hit me with a pan when I wouldn't listen to him)

DID I MISS THE WEDDING??????????

*feels terrible*

Nope, it's this coming weekend; wanna go? :D

*grope* you don't feel terrible to me.

*beso negro* lol - I love thatterm

Same here- worked alongside a lot of Poles and Bulgarians. It's crazy how fast you pick up the language.... and the insults are always the first to be learnt :D

Naturally. It's like growing up in a republican home and learning the "meaning" of the words "liberal", "collectivist", etc :D

Same here- worked alongside a lot of Poles and Bulgarians. It's crazy how fast you pick up the language.... and the insults are always the first to be learnt :D


Aint that the truth. I'm slowly learning all the dirty Filipino words from my woman.

Awesome. Nearly every chef I have worked for has been awesome (except for the French chef who was very angry and violent even who thought everyone was beneath him and should do whatever he said; he didn't have the slightest bit of jurisdiction over me but nearly hit me with a pan when I wouldn't listen to him)

Heh, I worked for an Italian guy who would kick you off the line if you talked shit about the PHI Eagles. ;)

Nope, it's this coming weekend; wanna go? :D

*grope* you don't feel terrible to me.

*beso negro* lol - I love thatterm
The only ticket I can find to Vegas is for the 27th..and it ain't cheap:( Plus, hubby isn't working right now, so things are tight.

I hope you have an awesome time!!!!! You know I'm into the beso negro!

The only ticket I can find to Vegas is for the 27th..and it ain't cheap:( Plus, hubby isn't working right now, so things are tight.

I hope you have an awesome time!!!!! You know I'm into the beso negro!


hehe don't worry I don't expect you to go and besides it's in Arcadia, Calif.

I'm sorry to hear that hubby isn't working :( I hope things pick up for ya very soon!!!!

I'll share pics of the wedding and the honeymoon to London, Amsterdam and Paris when we get back and things are in order. ...and you say things are tight and you like the black kiss? heheh *drool*

Have we achieved Hijackage? I hope so :D

Remember to subscribe to the thread though, so the next time Whittier, or some other rabid Chavez-hater starts up a new thread, we can copy and paste the replies from here, rather than going through this crap again.

Remember to subscribe to the thread though, so the next time Whittier, or some other rabid Chavez-hater starts up a new thread, we can copy and paste the replies from here, rather than going through this crap again.

hehe, yeah :) I feel I'm repeating myself a bit, those previous days ;) And I guess I'm not the only one...

hehe, yeah :) I feel I'm repeating myself a bit, those previous days ;) And I guess I'm not the only one...
In particular, I'd like to reference your posts in the future, if it's necessary. I lost the drive to be as complete as you've been these past few days, but not the drive to refute all the crap going around about Chavez!

In particular, I'd like to reference your posts in the future, if it's necessary. I lost the drive to be as complete as you've been these past few days, but not the drive to refute all the crap going around about Chavez!

Hehe thanks :)

Well, it really upsets me all those lies about him... that can you disagree with him, sure (I don't agree with all what he says/does), but those lies, this hatred, those false accusations over and over... I just can't let that spread without answering. This guy is giving everything for his people, and even if you don't agree with him, he deserves respect. And well, I agree with most of what he does ;)

In particular, I'd like to reference your posts in the future, if it's necessary. I lost the drive to be as complete as you've been these past few days, but not the drive to refute all the crap going around about Chavez!

Largely, it's not worth refuting any more. Pointing and laughing is much easier, and probably just as productive, in most cases.

People who believe that Chávez is a bloodthirsty dictator analogous to Stalin cannot be argued with, except in the tradition of smashing heads into walls.

I know what you mean. I feel the same way about Cuba. It's not perfect...but it's sure as hell not the repressive regime that so many people have been convinced it is. People are REALLY ignorant about Cuba...it's kind of shocking what some people believe about it.

To my dearest idiots ,

I'd like to point out the fact that , not so long ago , 2 countries ruled by extremists of the same type as ahmadinejad got themselves a nuke , and it didnt seem to bother the yanks that much ... Why is that ? well , the contracts for the nucleasr centrals went to us companies , because washington needed allies for its war on terror , because the us governement is the reign of hipocrisy . To start a therapy against your "USpropagandite" i would advise you to read british newspapers whenever you can , and then switch maybe to a thing called the BBC , whis is propaganda , but "diet" propaganda, and finally , check this link out : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAPt7qL5QR0&search=debunks%20iran

cheerio ,
see youi when you get a brain .

Largely, it's not worth refuting any more. Pointing and laughing is much easier, and probably just as productive, in most cases.

People who believe that Chávez is a bloodthirsty dictator analogous to Stalin cannot be argued with, except in the tradition of smashing heads into walls.
Yes, but they can be prevented from convincing others. That's the point. If someone tells you a lie enough, and you never hear the truth...you start to believe the lie.

Whittier, your blog is waaaaaaaaaay too subjective and biased and would never be accepted in a history assessment. I didn't bother reading past the second paragraph. Try using lighter adjectives.

Yes, but they can be prevented from convincing others. That's the point. If someone tells you a lie enough, and you never hear the truth...you start to believe the lie.

Exactly. That's why I'm answering. Not for the OP, I've no hope of convicing him, but for those who read him and may believe part of what he says. No answering to lies can make them to spread...

i'm surprised you don't (not just you, but others who feign surprise).


Has history taught us nothing?

COMMUNIST LEADERS/REGIMES ARE INVARIABLY TOTALITARIAN, CUT DOWN ON HUMAN RIGHTS MAJORLY, etc.

(can't believe y'all haven't learned this... Chavez's antics should come as no surprise)

LOL.

Then explain why Chavez is arming the citizenry. That would be an increase in gun rights.

In May of 2005, in my second blog, I wrote about Chavez's move to build a 1.5 million man army to threaten America's allies in the region.

A South American Stalin
The following is based on an article in a February issue of US News and World Report.


While the US fights terrorism abroad there is a huge threat to growing just to the south.

Particularly from the alliance between Cuba and Venezuela's bloodthirsty dictator, Hugo Chavez.
Since achieving power in Venezuela, Chavez has left no stone unturned in his declarations that he seeks the destruction of the United States. In one speech this deluded madman demanded that the US give the southwest back to Mexico.

He changed his nation's constitution to give himself absolute power. Any verbal statement that criticizes his regime is punishable by up to 15 years in prison.

And as if persecuting his people weren't enough, President Chavez is openly supporting the terrorist group FARC, a group known for abducting and beheading Americans. Several international organizations have reported that FARC has recieved arms and money from the Chavez regime which gives them refuge inside Venezuela, from which they launch terrorist attacks against civilians in Colombia. At times, Venezuelan agents were seen in Colombia assisting FARC in its attacks on Colombian forces. Not only is Chavez supporting FARC, but he openly declares his support for such groups as Al Qaeda and is suspected of being part of a group that has been smuggling cash to insurgents in Iraq.
Madman Chavez's illegal interference in Colombian internal affairs and his support of the world's worst international terrorist organizations is all part of his self declared jihad against the evil American capitalist empire.

More troubling news is that he has made alliance with Cuba's Castro. In a treaty signed by the two men, Chavez granted Cuban judicial and security officials extensive police powers inside Venezuela. Thousands of Venezuelans have already been forced at gun point into reeducation camps and the military is being reindoctrinated. And the treaty allows the cubans to bypass the Venezuelan judiciary and seize any one inside Venezuela both cuban and venezuelan, and they even have to power to take them to Cuba for trial.
Tens of thousands of Venezuelan youth were forcibly taken to Cuba for indoctrination. At least 2 or 3 Americans aid workers are sitting in Venezuelan prisons. Their only crime having been that they are Americans.

Just recently Chavez announced he was going to build 1.5 million man army to attack US allies in the region. And the Europeans are helping him. Certain European nations recently sold him state of the art attack aircraft. The White House has protested the sales but the Europeans went ahead anyway. Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice has spoken out against Chavez's long list of human rights abuses and his attempts to overthrow governments throughout the western hemisphere.

Even the election that brought Chavez to power was a fraud. In the election that gave Chavez regime credibility, various elections monitors have alleged vote fraud.
Former President Carter's group observed less than 1% of the ballots counted when it endorsed Chavez's victory. Of the 192 ballots that were supposed to have been counted, only 76 actually were. And Chavez regime picked which ballots from which towns would be counted. So that not every Venezuelans vote counted. Professors from Harvard and MIT have issued reports revealing there is a 99% likelihood that the election was a fraud.

We must go beyond protesting arms sales and condemning Chavez human rights violations. We must take him to task for his violation Colombian soverignty. Further we must impose sanctions. While we get oil from Venezuela, this can be replaced by increasing our purchase of Russian oil or by allowing drilling in Alaska. We must also demand the release of all Americans being illegally held in Cuban and Venezuelan prisons. And we must be ready to back up our demands with force. If we don't, we will soon find ourselves confronting 1.5 million army just south of our own border.

That's my two cents.


The US NEWS and World Report is the most reliable news source on earth.
This is one of the predictions I made in 2005, and now it is coming true and Chavez is becoming a real national security threat to the United States and its allies.

how do i know this is a real news article and not stuff you wrote yourself??

LOL.

Then explain why Chavez is arming the citizenry. That would be an increase in gun rights.
But maybe he's planning on forcing them to....REGISTER THOSE GUNS! *runs away screaming for Charlton Heston*

how do i know this is a real news article and not stuff you wrote yourself??
Now you know. He wrote it himself.

I know what you mean. I feel the same way about Cuba. It's not perfect...but it's sure as hell not the repressive regime that so many people have been convinced it is. People are REALLY ignorant about Cuba...it's kind of shocking what some people believe about it.
It is because there is an embargo on logic to the United States.

It is because there is an embargo on logic to the United States.
Well, as with most things, what affects the US also affects Canada, because the truly stupid shit I've heard lately has been from the mouths of my countrymen. I'm on the prowl, trying to teach them the error of their assumptions...pushing even more tourism to Cuba:)

Today, Hugo Chavez continues to support international terrorist organizations, support drug cartels (who give him his funding), is threatening the Netherlands territory of the Dutch Antilles, is openly seeking alliance with Iran. He is also seeking uranium. Why? Perhaps because he seeks to build nuclear weapons. He has been implicated with interfereing with the elections in his neighobor's territories and he is seeking to rig US elections.




Fantastic stuff Whittier.

America support terrorist organizations all the time - they pretty much funded and supported bin Laden in the 80's. They support state terror in Israel. They gave Saddam weapons to use against the Iranians in a war that cost over a million lives.

So what if Chavez is seeking alliances with Iran? It's his choice.
Dont forget Iran hasn't invaded anyone in the last 26 years since the revolution. How many countries have America stuck their fist in recently?

Rigging elections in other countries? This is an American speciality.

Rigging US elections? Well someones going to do it - Last time it was the Bush family and the NeoCons, so why not the Chavez family?

His allegiance with Castro has nothing to do with America. The White House is just sore because it failed so miserably at diposing Castro in the 60's. Castro still being in power is the biggest two fingers to the Americans in a long time.

Talk about double standards. I wonder, is the White House made entirely from glass?

That was hilarious! Pure gold satire of the usual right wing BS concerning latin american populist governments.:) At first I thought that you might be serious, but it was so over the top that I started laughing halfway through.

Can you do another one? Maybe about Canada this time?

What is wrong with Canada?

The US NEWS and World Report is the most reliable news source on earth.
This is one of the predictions I made in 2005, and now it is coming true and Chavez is becoming a real national security threat to the United States and its allies.

No, EuroNews is, I think you'll find. What you read is seemingly right-wing "kill the lefties" bullshit.

And actually, he's not a threat to the US' allies. We couldn't care less about your situation, as you've pushed around the world enough. He's only going to be a danger if you invade. Until then, you're as safe as houses, so to speak.

Well, as with most things, what affects the US also affects Canada, because the truly stupid shit I've heard lately has been from the mouths of my countrymen. I'm on the prowl, trying to teach them the error of their assumptions...pushing even more tourism to Cuba:)
That's because of the illegal immigration of illogic to Canada from the US.

Well, as with most things, what affects the US also affects Canada, because the truly stupid shit I've heard lately has been from the mouths of my countrymen. I'm on the prowl, trying to teach them the error of their assumptions...pushing even more tourism to Cuba:)

Cuba's lovely, everyone. No really, it is!

And it's quite cheap, too, as there's very little to spend your money on, and the beaches are so beautiful that you'd have no need to, as long as you got a full-board hotel.

Mmm... Cuba... must go back there at some point.

That's because of the illegal immigration of illogic to Canada from the US.
Damn. And I'm for open borders...I guess I'll just have to deal with it!

Those accusing Chavez of anti-semitism seem to be applying an anti-semitic interpretation of his speech. Given the history of socialist interpretations of the Gospels ("The Red Christ is our ally" was a slogan of Basque socialists in the Spanish Civil War) it seems at least as likely he meant capitolists and imperialists, represented by the Romans rather than the jews.

Those accusing Chavez of anti-semitism seem to be applying an anti-semitic interpretation of his speech. Given the history of socialist interpretations of the Gospels ("The Red Christ is our ally" was a slogan of Basque socialists in the Spanish Civil War) it seems at least as likely he meant capitolists and imperialists, represented by the Romans rather than the jews.

And Latin America has a long tradition of such interpretations. Some people need to learn what Liberation Theology is.

Well, after eading the posts of several Europeans, who must still be bitter about realizing that no one takes Europe seriously anymore; and Castro lovers, who have never talked to a man jailed and beaten by Castro's regime for not being a good enough socialist; and of course those crazy nuts who some how seem to ignore anything bad a leftist group has done in South America; I knew I had to post.

How would I deal with this problem?

And now, the newly elected president of the United States!
"People of America, are you tired of dictators?"
"YEAH!"
"Tired of oil problems?"
"YEAH!"
"Tired of Arab terrorists?"
"YEAH!"
"Then go on down to ShouldWeInvade.com, and cast your vote! Venezuela's got a little commie down there, and I think the country would make a great commonwealth! Plus oil without those pesky islamobads! Thanks, and God bless!"

Well, after eading the posts of several Europeans, who must still be bitter about realizing that no one takes Europe seriously anymore; and Castro lovers, who have never talked to a man jailed and beaten by Castro's regime for not being a good enough socialist; and of course those crazy nuts who some how seem to ignore anything bad a leftist group has done in South America; I knew I had to post.My husband's uncle was kidnapped, tortured, shot and mutilated after death by Pinochet's thugs. His family was told he had fled to Sweden.

By the way. When was the last time you were in any Latin American country? Particularly Cuba.

Yeah. That's what I thought.

Well, after eading the posts of several Europeans, who must still be bitter about realizing that no one takes Europe seriously anymore;

Ha!

Are these the words of an American?

Chavez is about 20 million deaths short of Stalin.

My thoughts exactly!

Well, after eading the posts of several Europeans, who must still be bitter about realizing that no one takes Europe seriously anymore; and Castro lovers, who have never talked to a man jailed and beaten by Castro's regime for not being a good enough socialist; and of course those crazy nuts who some how seem to ignore anything bad a leftist group has done in South America; I knew I had to post.


*reads the post and punches Al Gore for creating the Internet*

First, excuse me while I scream with fuckin' laughter at Whittier---.


Now, let's move on:

Well, after eading the posts of several Europeans, who must still be bitter about realizing that no one takes Europe seriously anymore; and Castro lovers, who have never talked to a man jailed and beaten by Castro's regime for not being a good enough socialist; and of course those crazy nuts who some how seem to ignore anything bad a leftist group has done in South America; I knew I had to post.

Holy shit! How did you infer that from the posts refuting the bulshit being peddled by people brainwashed by Fox News et al. ?

No one takes Europe seriously anymore? I'd be suprised if many people outside of the US and UK take Bush and his mates Dick, Don and Condi seriously anymore when they talk of spreading "democracy".

I've never spoken to a man jailed and tortued by the US in Guantanamo Bay either. I'm constantly left amazed at how people in the US justify hating Cuba / Venezuela / anywhere else that dares elect a socialist with the "they have poor human rights records" while just such abuses go on in their own country. Yes, human rights abuses do occur in Cuba and yes, I think that this is a bad thing. However, there are huge abuses of human rights going on in Columbia, which is a leading recipient of US aid. Cuba is criticised for this (rightly) while Columbia is given more money. Isn't it strange how that correlates with which of those countries is supported by the US? Orwell would be spinning in his grave if he heard some of the doublespeak eminating from the US administration and their ignorant sympathisers.

Seriously, take a breath and step away from the propaganda coming from news corporations. Their mission is not to bring you the complete truth.

Instead, try:
http://www.indymedia.org/en/index.shtml
http://newstandardnews.net/
http://www.zmag.org/weluser.htm

Actually, most people in the UK have garnered a hatred of the American government for assuming that we all want to go along with the interests of the US.

We don't really take anything even our government says any more, seeing as Clarke is leading like Heydrich.

Not reflected by our media coverage, but I take your point. So who can we vote for? Conservatives? I'm not that much of a ****, thanks :p

People bang on about democracy but all we have in the UK is oligarchy, a choice between the red conservative team or the blue conservative team. Both lead by rich men. Ultimately, both looking out for the interests of other rich men.

I thought this lie was debunked once and for all... but seems it's not.

Did you notice that Chavez spoke of both Jesus AND Bolivar, in the same sentence ? Did you know that jews HELPED Simon Bolivar ? What Chavez was targetting is imperialism. Jesus was killed by the Roman Empire because he defied them. Bolivar fought against the empire of his time, the Spanish colonial empire. And Chavez is fighting against the empire of his time: the American empire. That's what Chavez said.

If you had any clue about Venezeula's history, about who Bolivar was and how the Jew helped him, if you had any clue about the part of the catholic church Chavez is close to (the Liberation Theology, which always accused the roman empire, and never the jew, of killing Jesus), you wouldn't spread such lies.

But since the only view you have on Venezuela, Chavez, Bolivar and everything related to the situation comes from right-wing media who truncates Chavez' saying, mistranslate it (by translating "minorities" to "a minority", for example), you write insane accusations.

Oh, btw, I would remind you that the Venezuelian jewish organisation all said that Chavez was not antisemic. But sure, you know more than them...
1. contrary to socialist propaganda, Jesus was not a revolutionary. He denounced violence. And he instructed his disciples to obey their government. In that time, it was the Roman government they were to obey. It was not the Romans that Jesus defied, it was the high priests and the pharisees. If you even read the crucifixion account, the Roman governor of Judea wanted to let Jesus go because he thought Jesus was innocent. But the Pharisees and high priests blackmailed by referring to Ceasar.

2. For the past 50 years Venezuela had a democratic government. In fact it was the only democracy in Latin America. Chavez came along, and did away with democracy bit by bit. Just as Hitler eliminated democracy in Germany bit by bit before invading his neighbors.

3. The Weissenthal center said that his statements were antisemitic. Given that are prison terms given for people speaking against the government, saying that the Jews in Venezuela said that "Chavez is not anti-semitic" is not proof at all. Because in Venezuela there is no free press and no free speech.

For the past 50 years Venezuela had a democratic government. In fact it was the only democracy in Latin America. Chavez came along, and did away with democracy bit by bit. Just as Hitler eliminated democracy in Germany bit by bit before invading his neighbors.


The USA is the root of Latin America's problems. Noreiga is still in jail basically because he fell out of favour with you.

You put several horrible dictatorships there. As with Iraq. And Afghanistan. And Africa.

Don't get on your high horse about democracy.

That's probably the most dramatic consequence of USA invasion of Irak.

USA proved to the world that they are ready to invade a sovereign country, breaking international laws and the UN charter, even if this country accepted to disband its weapons.

What should Iran do now ? USA proved that if you ever trust them, if you ever accept to stop arming yourself, they'll attack you.

Look at elections in Iran ! Look at how this fanatic was elected, at what campaign he did. It was simple: "Irak accepted to disarm. USA invaded them. If we don't want to be invaded, we have to be strong and refuse any deal with them". That's how he won the election.

By invading Irak after Saddam accepted to disband his weapons, USA made it impossible for any other country to ever accept to disarm peacefully. Every threat, every speak of invasion against Iran now will only INCREASE the risk of them developping the nuclear weapon.

That's the terrible consequence of Bush madness, of his disastrous breaking of the UN charter.
Newsflash for you:

IRAN HAS BEEN WORKING ON ITS NUCLEAR PROGRAM SINCE THE CLINTON ADMINISTRATION.
Their nuclear program is not new nor is it the result of Bush policies. They've always sought nukes, like Saddam did, because they want to be able to bully the middle east.

Newsflash for you:

IRAN HAS BEEN WORKING ON ITS NUCLEAR PROGRAM SINCE THE CLINTON ADMINISTRATION.
Their nuclear program is not new nor is it the result of Bush policies. They've always sought nukes, like Saddam did, because they want to be able to bully the middle east.

And defend themselves from Israel and the West.

Newsflash for you:

IRAN HAS BEEN WORKING ON ITS NUCLEAR PROGRAM SINCE THE CLINTON ADMINISTRATION.
Their nuclear program is not new nor is it the result of Bush policies. They've always sought nukes, like Saddam did, because they want to be able to bully the middle east.

Oh please... why would they want to? They're already a powerful nation in the middle east, the reason they want nukes is to use as a deterrent.

Exactly. That's why I'm answering. Not for the OP, I've no hope of convicing him, but for those who read him and may believe part of what he says. No answering to lies can make them to spread...
Good luck. I have about 10,000 readers of my blog. You will never reach them with your anti american lies.

2. For the past 50 years Venezuela had a democratic government. In fact it was the only democracy in Latin America. Chavez came along, and did away with democracy bit by bit. Just as Hitler eliminated democracy in Germany bit by bit before invading his neighbors.

3. The Weissenthal center said that his statements were antisemitic. Given that are prison terms given for people speaking against the government, saying that the Jews in Venezuela said that "Chavez is not anti-semitic" is not proof at all. Because in Venezuela there is no free press and no free speech.
WOW!! You just keep making it up as you go. It appears that nobody is buying your Stalinesque rhetoric.

The USA is the root of Latin America's problems. Noreiga is still in jail basically because he fell out of favour with you.

You put several horrible dictatorships there. As with Iraq. And Afghanistan. And Africa.

Don't get on your high horse about democracy.

not to speak of past placement of dictators... but i thought our most recent ventures in Iraq/Afghanistan removed the dictators (or dictatorial regime, in the case of the Taliban).

not to speak of past placement of dictators... but i thought our most recent ventures in Iraq/Afghanistan removed the dictators (or dictatorial regime, in the case of the Taliban).

Yeah. You've lost billions of dollars and hundreds of lives correcting the cock-ups of Reagan, who is still oddly revered by many Americans.

Good luck. I have about 10,000 readers of my blog. You will never reach them with your anti american lies.
So does God agree with all your hateful propaganda?

The USA is the root of Latin America's problems. Noreiga is still in jail basically because he fell out of favour with you.

You put several horrible dictatorships there. As with Iraq. And Afghanistan. And Africa.

Don't get on your high horse about democracy.
We were not involved in Afghanistan or Africa. That was the Russians. Read up on your history. The US pretty much ignored those parts of the world except to fund the anti Russia war in Afghanistan but when that ended, we told them they were on their own in terms of forming a government for themselves. That's how the Taliban rose to power. But we were not the only ones who ignored Afghanistan, everyone else ignored them to.
Same with Africa. The only people intervening in Africa were the Russians and the French. Cuba tried with Namibia and failed.

7. There is no free press in Venezuela.

A case of political persecution and proof of the lack of free press:

http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/news.php?newsno=1921

"Pacheco has said she’s the victim of political persecution. “What a coincidence that the accusing parties are the legal representatives of the famous rulers of this regime, that there has been an absolute lack of balance in this entire process, because while all the accusing parties have been given privileges, kindness, and benefits, they have treated me as what I feel I am, a target of this government that considers me part of the dissidence. What’s more, they consider me dangerous, because I look for the truth,” she told the Venezuelan daily 2001, a week before apologizing.
Since her apology, the Colegio Nacional de Periodistas (National Association of Journalists) has met to discuss the increase in prosecution of journalists, mentioning her case. Reporters without Borders and the Inter-American Press Association had also previously taken note of her case with concern."

http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/news.php?newsno=1922

"The Inter-American Press Association issued a report yesterday, in which it warned that freedom of speech is threatened in Venezuela"
"Also, the report criticizes, “the aggressions and acts of intimidation that the Venezuelan government is pursuing against independent mass media and journalists.” Specifically, the report cites the pursuit of media with the arbitrary use of the government’s tax collection agency (Seniat) and “intimidation with gangs.”

http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/news.php?newsno=1924
"Last week, a third case was put on hold until April 24 at the request of defense attorneys. Unlike the cases against Salazar and Pacheco, the case against TV commentator Napoléon Bravo is not for providing false information, but rather for disrespect of a branch of government."
The journalist was jailed for insulting the Supreme Court.
There you have it, if you don't show proper respect to the Chavez regime, you can go to jail.
Freedom of the Press my ass.

Good luck. I have about 10,000 readers of my blog. You will never reach them with your anti american lies.

How many of them read you for a giggle?

Chavez really is a nobody, unless you happen to live in Venezuela. What he has done that I find truely remarkable is show the world, and especially other crackpots, is that it is possible to distract most of your people from thinking that your corrupt and incompetatant by blaming the US for all the problems in your country.

Chavez is about 20 million deaths short of Stalin.

Despite many pages of Whittier's hyperbole, this is still the bottom line.

7. There is no free press in Venezuela.
*snip*

Try not to claim more than you prove. There is a difference between threats to the free press and "there is no free press."

Even taken at face values, those articles show there may be some struggle over freedom of speech, not that there is no free speech. to the contrary, they prove there is at least some free speech.

I'm no fan of Chavez, but you're tempting me to become one.

7. There is no free press in Venezuela.
A case of political persecution and proof of the lack of free press:

http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/news.php?newsno=1921

http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/news.php?newsno=1922

http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/news.php?newsno=1924
Freedom of the Press my ass.
From the same news source that you quote above:

New Poll Gives Venezuela’s Chavez 82.7% Approval Rating (http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/news.php?newsno=1934)

Venezuela Reaches Landmark 75% Debt Retirement (http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/news.php?newsno=1944)

Venezuela Car Sales Up 55%, Signaling Consumption Boom (http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/news.php?newsno=1941)

British Parliament Debate Supports Chavez’s Venezuela (http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/news.php?newsno=1912)

Venezuela Lowers Foreign Debt by $4.7 Billion (http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/news.php?newsno=1906)

And there are many more.

Good luck. I have about 10,000 readers of my blog. You will never reach them with your anti american lies.
Can you supply us a link to your blog? :D

Can you supply us a link to your blog? :D

I'd read it everyday.

Sometimes, I will do the following to see if there is any kind of connection between material posted by OP and the home nation. Here goes:

The United Socialist States of Whittier---

Political Freedoms: Few

The United Socialist States of Whittier--- is a huge, economically powerful nation, remarkable for its barren, inhospitable landscape. Its hard-nosed, hard-working, cynical population of 462 million are rabid consumers, partly through choice and partly because the government tells them to and dissenters tend to vanish from their homes at night.

The large, pro-business government is mainly concerned with Law & Order, although Defence and Commerce are secondary priorities. Citizens pay a flat income tax of 18%. Private enterprise is illegal, but for those in the know there is a slick and highly efficient black market in Uranium Mining.

All streets are privately owned toll roads, a crusade against barbaric religious practices has begun, several citizens have complained about scientists abducting their pets for experimentation, and long arduous trials are held for the most trivial of offences. Crime -- especially youth-related -- is well under control, thanks to the all-pervasive police force. Whittier---'s national animal is the golden dragon, which is also the nation's favorite main course, and its currency is the canali.

Whittier--- is ranked 14th in the region and 101,577th in the world for Most Income Equality.

Hmmmm

hmmm. I am wondering:
what if America send secret undercover agents to Venezuela to blow up oil fields? No one would know they're from the US.
Course Chavez would blame the US but then we can just say that he always blames the US, cause, well, he does. We can just say he did it himself so he could claim he was attacked.
Agents? America never had any agents in Venezuela.
Oil fields? Preposterous, why would we blow up oil that we need?
Mr. Chavez is nothing more than a raving lunatic spouting his typical anti american rhetoric.
Muhahaha

Sometimes, I will do the following to see if there is any kind of connection between material posted by OP and the home nation. Here goes:

The United Socialist States of Whittier---

Political Freedoms: Few

The United Socialist States of Whittier--- is a huge, economically powerful nation, remarkable for its barren, inhospitable landscape. Its hard-nosed, hard-working, cynical population of 462 million are rabid consumers, partly through choice and partly because the government tells them to and dissenters tend to vanish from their homes at night.

The large, pro-business government is mainly concerned with Law & Order, although Defence and Commerce are secondary priorities. Citizens pay a flat income tax of 18%. Private enterprise is illegal, but for those in the know there is a slick and highly efficient black market in Uranium Mining.

All streets are privately owned toll roads, a crusade against barbaric religious practices has begun, several citizens have complained about scientists abducting their pets for experimentation, and long arduous trials are held for the most trivial of offences. Crime -- especially youth-related -- is well under control, thanks to the all-pervasive police force. Whittier---'s national animal is the golden dragon, which is also the nation's favorite main course, and its currency is the canali.

Whittier--- is ranked 14th in the region and 101,577th in the world for Most Income Equality.

Hmmmmthere's no crime in Whittier---. So? Though i've been trying to transfer more of that from law to defense so I can have a much bigger army to attack people with.

This article is hardly fair, and it is by a stridently liberal writer, but in the interests of being truly "fair and balanced", I thought it might be a little illuminating:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ucru/20060406/cm_ucru/panderingtothepoor

I hope no one else has posted this already. . .

there's no crime in Whittier---. So? Though i've been trying to transfer more of that from law to defense so I can have a much bigger army to attack people with.
Political freedoms few

Barren inhospitable landscape

rabid consumers, partly through choice and partly because the government tells them to and dissenters tend to vanish from their homes at night

A police state.

You don't see the irony in regards to your OP?

This article is hardly fair, and it is by a stridently liberal writer, but in the interests of being truly "fair and balanced", I thought it might be a little illuminating:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ucru/20060406/cm_ucru/panderingtothepoor

I hope no one else has posted this already. . .
Good find!! Bravo!! ;)

This whole thing seems to me like a bunch of right-wing conservative propaganda.

And why is Whittier nagging at Chavez for being angry at political opponents. I read an article over at infoshop.org about how Bush was kicking people out of random conventions for wearing anti-Conservative t-shirts. I'll post a link if anyones interested in reading it.

You don't see the irony in regards to your OP?

You're comparing a game to real life. Don't get too excited.

You're comparing a game to real life. Don't get too excited.
Oh, I quite understand but it just is kind of ironic that his NS is oppressive.

1. contrary to socialist propaganda, Jesus was not a revolutionary. He denounced violence. And he instructed his disciples to obey their government. In that time, it was the Roman government they were to obey. It was not the Romans that Jesus defied, it was the high priests and the pharisees. If you even read the crucifixion account, the Roman governor of Judea wanted to let Jesus go because he thought Jesus was innocent. But the Pharisees and high priests blackmailed by referring to Ceasar.

The question is not if Jesus was or was not a revolutionnary. The question is who Chavez was speaking about, and therefore, who Jesus was for Chavez.

Chavez is a follower of the "Liberation Theology", what you call the socialist propaganda. For him, Jesus opposed the Roman Empire. So it's the Roman Empire he was accusing.

For the reality about Jesus, not much is known.

2. For the past 50 years Venezuela had a democratic government. In fact it was the only democracy in Latin America.

You seem pretty ignorant of Venezuela. In 1989, the president CAF ordered the army to fire on protesters, killing thousands. Feel free to call that a "democratic government", but that doesn't even happen in Cuba.

Chavez came along, and did away with democracy bit by bit.

He created the recall referendum. He created local direct democracy. For the first time in Venezuelian history, he accepted massive opposition marches without opening fire on them. Check your facts.

Just as Hitler eliminated democracy in Germany bit by bit before invading his neighbors.

LOL

3. The Weissenthal center said that his statements were antisemitic.

And therefore it's true ? Many other US and European jewish organisations said it was bullshit, and denouced the Weissenthal center on that. But sure, the Weissenthal center knows more than the local jews...

Given that are prison terms given for people speaking against the government, saying that the Jews in Venezuela said that "Chavez is not anti-semitic" is not proof at all. Because in Venezuela there is no free press and no free speech.

LOL. How can you believe such lies ? Ok, let's say it again:

- On the 7 national TV channels, 6 are openly, directly anti-Chavez, going as far as to call for his MURDER and to support the coup attempt.

- Even after the coup and the massive lies committed by the media, no one was thrown in jail.

- No single journalist or media owner was thrown in jail in Venezeula since Chavez is in power.

So, check your facts, and stop spreading lies.

So, check your facts, and stop spreading lies.

He won't stop.

Whittier has openly stated that lies are OK to further your political agenda.

The best you can do is expose him. (And count on the fact that his absurdity exposes itself.)

7. There is no free press in Venezuela.

Quoting websites owned by opposition media WHO LIED UTTERLY TO JUSTIFY THE COUP in 2002 will not prove anything.

And btw, lacking of respect for court can lead to jail in USA too. And in many other western democracies too. You know, here in France, you go to jail for 6 months for "irrespect to forces of law" (police or justice). And that's the case in most countries. I don't agree with that, but if you say it's a dictatorship as soon as there is such a law, there is no democracy.

And well, in Venezuela, you can call to the murder of president on TV and go out with it, point me another country where you can.

Newsflash for you:

IRAN HAS BEEN WORKING ON ITS NUCLEAR PROGRAM SINCE THE CLINTON ADMINISTRATION.
Their nuclear program is not new nor is it the result of Bush policies. They've always sought nukes, like Saddam did, because they want to be able to bully the middle east.

And they've had reason to fear US attack since about 1979, with the need multiplied by the end of the Cold War.

Perhaps the most revealing part of Whittier's initial rant is where he suggests Chavez is conducting a 'jihad' against America.

- On the 7 national TV channels, 6 are openly, directly anti-Chavez, going as far as to call for his MURDER and to support the coup attempt.
Where do you get this info from?

[QUOTE=Frangland]there's just one problem:

which business leaders are gonna stick around to start and run the businesses?QUOTE]


Normally, the bussines leaders as you call them are pirates to their own people, of course, educated in Priceton.

Whittier - this is for your benifit, Hitler didnt do away with democracy bit by bit, he did it like this

1930 - great depression hits germany, premature elections called by Chancellor Bruning, nazis win 107 seats

1932 - hitler ran for president, got 35% of the vote but lost
- von Papen is appointed chancellor because Hindenburg is afraid of Hitler
- new elections, hitler wins 230 seats
- Papen has 84% vote against ina vote of no confidence, Schleicher is appointed Chancellor, lasted only a couple of months, preassure on Hindenburg by the Reichstag to appoint Hitler as chancellor

1933 - hitler appointed chancellor, new elections called but independent dutch communist is caught after burinig down the Reichstag, KPD (Kommunist Partei Deustschland) banned
- Enabling act passed when hitler does a deal with the catholic enter party, Hitler can now pass laws without consulting the Reichstag for 4 years

1934 - Hindenburg dies naturally, hitler combines the office of chancellor and president and calls hinself Fruher.


as you can see hitle did away with democracy in one day, 21 march 1933 wen the enabling act was passed through the democratically elected reichstag.

chavez still has elections which are decreed fair, so gutted Whittier you are blinded by your hatred of anything vaguely socialist

This whole thing seems to me like a bunch of right-wing conservative propaganda.

And why is Whittier nagging at Chavez for being angry at political opponents. I read an article over at infoshop.org about how Bush was kicking people out of random conventions for wearing anti-Conservative t-shirts. I'll post a link if anyones interested in reading it.
In the United States, political conventions are all funded by private funding. They don't get any public funds whatsoever. That is why they can kick people out of their convention. If the public gave any funding to the convention, then they would not have as much freedom to do so. If the private party wants them out, they, by law, have to leave or they are tresspassing on private property.
It's a far cry from what's going on in Venezuela, which looks to me like nothing more than your daily soapopera. I am more interested in his actions outside Venezuela than inside Venezuela. Remember that Al Qaeda and the Taliban were feeding the poor and what not also. But at the same time they allied themselves with Israel and attacked the US repeatedly.
What he does in his country is his business, but once he steps outside of Venezuela, it becomes other countries business.

The question is not if Jesus was or was not a revolutionnary. The question is who Chavez was speaking about, and therefore, who Jesus was for Chavez.

Chavez is a follower of the "Liberation Theology", what you call the socialist propaganda. For him, Jesus opposed the Roman Empire. So it's the Roman Empire he was accusing.

For the reality about Jesus, not much is known.



You seem pretty ignorant of Venezuela. In 1989, the president CAF ordered the army to fire on protesters, killing thousands. Feel free to call that a "democratic government", but that doesn't even happen in Cuba.



He created the recall referendum. He created local direct democracy. For the first time in Venezuelian history, he accepted massive opposition marches without opening fire on them. Check your facts.



LOL



And therefore it's true ? Many other US and European jewish organisations said it was bullshit, and denouced the Weissenthal center on that. But sure, the Weissenthal center knows more than the local jews...



LOL. How can you believe such lies ? Ok, let's say it again:

- On the 7 national TV channels, 6 are openly, directly anti-Chavez, going as far as to call for his MURDER and to support the coup attempt.

- Even after the coup and the massive lies committed by the media, no one was thrown in jail.

- No single journalist or media owner was thrown in jail in Venezeula since Chavez is in power.

So, check your facts, and stop spreading lies.
1. Jesus did not oppose the Roman Empire. In fact, he said the opposite, he said that Rome was given its power by God, and therefore ruled with God's consent. Hardly opposing the Roman Empire there.

2. Cuba is dictatorship where to this very day, people continue to flee the government oppression for freedom and sanctuary in the United States.

3. The local Jews are being oppressed. Get them out of Venezuela to a free country and see what they say then, now that they are safe from government retaliation.

4. List a single American or European organisation that said what Chavez said was not anti-semitic. You can't because there are none.

5. Now I got you right where I wanted you. LIAR. Just try telling your bullshit to the journalists who were arrested for saying bad things about government officials, and branches of government.

He won't stop.

Whittier has openly stated that lies are OK to further your political agenda.

The best you can do is expose him. (And count on the fact that his absurdity exposes itself.)
You're support for the anti semites and the anti american sob's is getting absurd. In another thread, I made a very long post with a lot links, yet barely a minute later you denounced it as all lies without even looking at it.
YOU HAVE NO CREDIBILITY. Because I know for a fact that would have taken you longer than 2 minutes to read the thing.

Quoting websites owned by opposition media WHO LIED UTTERLY TO JUSTIFY THE COUP in 2002 will not prove anything.

And btw, lacking of respect for court can lead to jail in USA too. And in many other western democracies too. You know, here in France, you go to jail for 6 months for "irrespect to forces of law" (police or justice). And that's the case in most countries. I don't agree with that, but if you say it's a dictatorship as soon as there is such a law, there is no democracy.

And well, in Venezuela, you can call to the murder of president on TV and go out with it, point me another country where you can.
Not in America boy. In America you can make newsreports disrespecting the courts. It's called free press. Do that in Venezuela, and you go to jail.
In America, the only time the press goes to jail is if they are obstructing justice. That is not the case in Venezuela. You say something bad about the court on TV or in your newspaper and you go to jail.

And they've had reason to fear US attack since about 1979, with the need multiplied by the end of the Cold War.
Since 1979, Iran has done nothing but support international terrorism, the deaths of millions of innocents, supported suicide bombers who killed Israeli babies, and repeatedly called for the destruction of an important US ally.
Even Saddam's invasion was provoked when the Iranians tried to foment a radical Islamic revolution in Iraq and other countries. That is why America had to support Saddam against Iran. Iran was trying back then, as they are now, to force Iraq to have an islamic extremist government.

Unfortunately the decision we had to make back then had consequences later that we are now dealing with. Iran's Ayatollah was a bloodthirsty son of bitch who was much worse than Saddam Hussien. When the Ayatollah died, then Saddam became the worse dictator in the middle east. Now Iran is the worst again.

You're support for the anti semites and the anti american sob's is getting absurd. In another thread, I made a very long post with a lot links, yet barely a minute later you denounced it as all lies without even looking at it.
YOU HAVE NO CREDIBILITY. Because I know for a fact that would have taken you longer than 2 minutes to read the thing.
Hmmm... Which one has more credibility? The Cat-Tribe or Whittier?

One usually post links and backs his arguments, especially when discrediting other posters.

The other's assertions have been debunked in this very thread thoroughly and he still claims Chavez is anti-semite.

I think I'll go with Cat, thank you very much.

Since 1979, Iran has done nothing but support international terrorism, the deaths of millions of innocents, supported suicide bombers who killed Israeli babies, and repeatedly called for the destruction of an important US ally.
Even Saddam's invasion was provoked when the Iranians tried to foment a radical Islamic revolution in Iraq and other countries. That is why America had to support Saddam against Iran. Iran was trying back then, as they are now, to force Iraq to have an islamic extremist government.

Unfortunately the decision we had to make back then had consequences later that we are now dealing with. Iran's Ayatollah was a bloodthirsty son of bitch who was much worse than Saddam Hussien. When the Ayatollah died, then Saddam became the worse dictator in the middle east. Now Iran is the worst again.
And this kind of talks is why they are looking for them bomb. As a deterrent against rabid ennmies that calls for their destruction.

1

3. The local Jews are being oppressed. Get them out of Venezuela to a free country and see what they say then, now that they are safe from government retaliation.
.

Why is this not mentioned by Amnesty or HRW?


the deaths of millions of innocents, .

Vast exaggeration. And to probide context - How many were killed by Ronnie Rayguns largesse with American funding in Latin America?

That is why America had to support Saddam against Iran. Iran was trying back then, as they are now, to force Iraq to have an islamic extremist government. .

Emmm...no. First they backed both. Then they saw the New Iran wouldnt bend over and thus went with Saddam.

again he can only be referring the jews since Americans as a people were not around at the time of christ and were not involved in the trials at Jesus crucifixion. Chavez, here, is talking about Jews, not imperialist Americans or imperialist Europeans.
It is common knowledge that for centuries the Jews were blamed for Jesus death. It is common knowledget that for centuries the Jews were blamed for supposedly hording all the world's wealth.
I can see how rhetoric like this helped get Chavez elected. It also helped Hitler get himself elected and it helped Iran's current leader get elected also. To prevent the people turning against you, always point the finger at an outside source: and for millenia that scapegoat has been the Jews. It's no surprise that Chavez hates America, being that America is a strong ally of Israel.

The socialists can spin Chavez anti jew speech any way they want. They can't claim, truthfully, that he was not talking about jews.

The man is an anti semetic son of a bitch and if I didn't like him before I sure as hell don't like him now.

Chavez is talking about the ideology that allows one man to oppress and exploit another, not about a specific group of people.

Would you care to explain to me how the International Jewish Conspiracy were responsible for the fate of Bolivar?

And this kind of talks is why they are looking for them bomb. As a deterrent against rabid ennmies that calls for their destruction.
Iran is not an innocent country. They are guilty of supporting and financing terrorism. They are guilty of attempting to export islamic revolution.

But you give a damn about all that. All you care about is they are anti america which automatically makes them ok in YOUR book.

Chavez is talking about the ideology that allows one man to oppress and exploit another, not about a specific group of people.

Would you care to explain to me how the International Jewish Conspiracy were responsible for the fate of Bolivar?
America sure as hell didn't have anything to do with Bolivar. Yet America is being blamed for it.

You're support for the anti semites and the anti american sob's is getting absurd. In another thread, I made a very long post with a lot links, yet barely a minute later you denounced it as all lies without even looking at it.
YOU HAVE NO CREDIBILITY. Because I know for a fact that would have taken you longer than 2 minutes to read the thing.
Cat Tribe has no credibility? Hardly.

Your credibility in this thread was lost at Post # 1.:p

America sure as hell didn't have anything to do with Bolivar. Yet America is being blamed for it.

No, the ideology of exploitation and oppression which Chavez perceives the US as supporting around the world is being blamed.

Iran is not an innocent country. They are guilty of supporting and financing terrorism. They are guilty of attempting to export islamic revolution.
So, now only innocent countries can talk or research technology? Please refrain from talking or researching any new technology, then.


But you give a damn about all that. All you care about is they are anti america which automatically makes them ok in YOUR book.
Thank you for telling me what I think. I never realized I was so xenophobic. Please, can you tell me what I want to eat for dinner, it'll save me a lot of time so I can go back hating the US.

It is preposterous that I would hate a whole continent (america), especially the one I reside in, for no good reasons anyways.

Cat Tribe has no credibility? Hardly.

Your credibility in this thread was lost at Post # 1.:p
the ten thousand people who read my blog would disagree with you.

No, the ideology of exploitation and oppression which Chavez perceives the US as supporting around the world is being blamed.
As demonstrated by his own behavior and comments, Chavez is a paranoid lunatic.

So, now only innocent countries can talk or research technology? Please refrain from talking or researching any new technology, then.



Thank you for telling me what I think. I never realized I was so xenophobic. Please, can you tell me what I want to eat for dinner, it'll save me a lot of time so I can go back hating the US.

It is preposterous that I would hate a whole continent (america), especially the one I reside in, for no good reasons anyways.
America never called for the destruction of another nation. America never supported the deaths of innocents you terrorist sympathizer.

the ten thousand people who read my blog would disagree with you.
Yeah and hundreds of millions more would think that you are barking up the wrong tree. Clearly you support the king of propaganda George the Lesser. "Nuff said.

BTW, how about a link to your "famous" blog, or are you afraid to have dissenting voices visit your domain?

As demonstrated by his own behavior and comments, Chavez is a paranoid lunatic.
Or you are. I'd go for that one.

America never called for the destruction of another nation. America never supported the deaths of innocents you terrorist sympathizer.
I'd say afghanistan and Iraq are pretty much destroyed.

1. Jesus did not oppose the Roman Empire. In fact, he said the opposite, he said that Rome was given its power by God, and therefore ruled with God's consent. Hardly opposing the Roman Empire there.

Once again, your opinion on what happened to Jesus and the Roman Empire doesn't matter here. It's what Chavez thinks about it which matters, to know who Chavez accused. And Chavez follows the Liberation Theology. That you disagree with them doesn't mean Chavez doesn't believe in what they say. A bit of logic, please.

2. Cuba is dictatorship where to this very day, people continue to flee the government oppression for freedom and sanctuary in the United States.

That was not my point. My point was that in Venezuela, before Chavez, the president ordered to fire on demonstration, and killed many of them. But still you call that a democracy. While another country, which you call a dictatorship, doesn't do that. So, either you've a double standard, or you lie.

3. The local Jews are being oppressed. Get them out of Venezuela to a free country and see what they say then, now that they are safe from government retaliation.

Any single fact to back your claim ? No, I guess.

4. List a single American or European organisation that said what Chavez said was not anti-semitic. You can't because there are none.

In France: UFJP. In USA: The Shalom Center in Philadelphia.

5. Now I got you right where I wanted you. LIAR. Just try telling your bullshit to the journalists who were arrested for saying bad things about government officials, and branches of government.

Which ones ? Show me names. Facts. What they did, and sentences they got. You can't.

America never supported the deaths of innocents you terrorist sympathizer.

Nicaragua, Honduras, El Salvador?

EDIT: Trail of Tears?

As demonstrated by his own behavior and comments, Chavez is a paranoid lunatic.

So in essence you are agreeing with me when I state that he is not making anti-Semitic remarks here, but rather criticising political ideology?

Paranoid? Forgive me if I'm mistaken here, biut we've had people on this very thread advocate his assassination. People really are out to get him.

America never called for the destruction of another nation. America never supported the deaths of innocents you terrorist sympathizer.
"Axis of evil" rings a bell?
CONTRA rings a bell?
Agent orange rings a bell?

Besides, you have to shut up since the US is not "an innocent country. They are guilty of supporting and financing terrorism. They are guilty of attempting to export revolution. "

Nicaragua, Honduras, El Salvador?
North Korea, Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Iraq, Indonesia, Chile, etc.

So in essence you are agreeing with me when I state that he is not making anti-Semitic remarks here, but rather criticising political ideology?

Paranoid? Forgive me if I'm mistaken here, biut we've had people on this very thread advocate his assassination. People really are out to get him.
I said no such thing. In fact, I am waiting for several translations from people who not overtly anti-american communists who support international terrorism.

I should get something by Saturday.

I said no such thing. In fact, I am waiting for several translations from people who not overtly anti-american communists who support international terrorism.

I should get something by Saturday.
Come on Whittier, and give us a link to your "famous" 10,000 follower blog.

Edit: Do you not see the harm that all of this nonsense is doing to your country?

Iran is not an innocent country. They are guilty of supporting and financing terrorism. They are guilty of attempting to export islamic revolution.
America is not a innocent country. it is guilty (Al-Queda ect.) os supporting and financing terroism. it is guilty of attempting to export a captilist revoloutions (Vietnam, 'te domino theaory, the red scares, the cold war...)

But you give a damn about all that. All you care about is they are anti america which automatically makes them ok in YOUR book.
But you give a damn about all that. All you care about is that is that it is America which automatically makes it perfect in YOUR book.

Tell me about why it is so awful to dislike Americas goverment, as I do, yet perfectly ok to hate a leader of another goverment, call for his assination, attack and kill hundreds of thousands of innocent, then say that doing all that is okay becuase it's in the name of Democracy and that it will stop the people from becoming uncer 'evil socalist oppressors'.

The people (not the rich) are usually better off under socalism.

Not in America boy. In America you can make newsreports disrespecting the courts. It's called free press. Do that in Venezuela, and you go to jail.

In America, there are cases of _LAWYERS_ being arrested during trials for "irrespect to the court".

Once again, show me any single journalist in jail in Venezuela. Once again, tell me what happened when CAF called to kill Chavez on TV. Once again, tell me what happened when the media did outright lies on April 11, 2002 and the following days. Once again, show me a single country in which you can call to murder the president, support a coup attempt, lie about the president having resigned, ... and get out with it, with nothing.

In America, the only time the press goes to jail is if they are obstructing justice.

Ok, so if I say "US citizen, murder Bush !" in a newspaper in USA, I go away with it ? Would you like to try ? Or are you afraid to end up in Guantanamo Bay ?

North Korea, Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Iraq, Indonesia, Chile, etc.
countries that all had evil regime that brutally repressed their own people and how attacked their neighbors without just cause.

We never invaded Indonesia or Chile. In fact, we never did anything with Indonesia. The support of the regime in Chile was misguided. But that was not under Bush so don't blame Bush for the shit in Chile. Same with Cambodia. Cambodia only happened because Vietnam invaded it not once but repeatedly. First before the US even stepped foot in Cambodia, we only went in to kick the Vietcong commies out. Then they did twice more after we withdrew from Vietnam and even set up a puppet socialist regime that proceeded to kill its own people. Ever hear of the Khmer Rouge?
North Korea attacked a US ally. We went in to kick their asses out of South Korea.
Laos was China and Vietnam, not just us. Our involvement in Laos was a hell of lot smaller than those two's.
Iraq, as with North Korea, would have been left alone if they had not invaded Kuwait without just cause. If Chavez was running the world at the time, Kuwait and Saudi Arabia would be part of Iraq. And the Israelis would have forced to flee their homeland again.
We tolerate what other countries do in their own nations, unless they fund terrorist attacks against us or our allies, or unless they invade their neighbor's without just cause.

Iran is not an innocent country. They are guilty of supporting and financing terrorism. They are guilty of attempting to export islamic revolution.

USA is not an innocent country. They are guilty of supporting and financing terror organisations. They are guilty of supporting and financing coups against elected presidents. They are guilty of attempting to export capitalism.

America sure as hell didn't have anything to do with Bolivar. Yet America is being blamed for it.

I guess you didn't understand at all either Chavez' talk and what we said here. According to Chavez:

Jesus opposed the Roman Empire, and was murdered by the Romans.

Bolivar opposed the Spanish Empire, and died because of that.

Chavez opposes the American Empire, and saw his life threatened several times because of that.

That's what he meant. That's all.

America is not a innocent country. it is guilty (Al-Queda ect.) os supporting and financing terroism. it is guilty of attempting to export a captilist revoloutions (Vietnam, 'te domino theaory, the red scares, the cold war...)

But you give a damn about all that. All you care about is that is that it is America which automatically makes it perfect in YOUR book.

Tell me about why it is so awful to dislike Americas goverment, as I do, yet perfectly ok to hate a leader of another goverment, call for his assination, attack and kill hundreds of thousands of innocent, then say that doing all that is okay becuase it's in the name of Democracy and that it will stop the people from becoming uncer 'evil socalist oppressors'.

The people (not the rich) are usually better off under socalism.
tell that to the people of eastern europe.

America never supported the deaths of innocents you terrorist sympathizer.

Say that to the victims of Pinochet.

countries that all had evil regime that brutally repressed their own people and how attacked their neighbors without just cause.

We never invaded Indonesia or Chile. In fact, we never did anything with Indonesia. The support of the regime in Chile was misguided. But that was not under Bush so don't blame Bush for the shit in Chile. Same with Cambodia. Cambodia only happened because Vietnam invaded it not once but repeatedly. First before the US even stepped foot in Cambodia, we only went in to kick the Vietcong commies out. Then they did twice more after we withdrew from Vietnam and even set up a puppet socialist regime that proceeded to kill its own people. Ever hear of the Khmer Rouge?
North Korea attacked a US ally. We went in to kick their asses out of South Korea.
Laos was China and Vietnam, not just us. Our involvement in Laos was a hell of lot smaller than those two's.
Iraq, as with North Korea, would have been left alone if they had not invaded Kuwait without just cause. If Chavez was running the world at the time, Kuwait and Saudi Arabia would be part of Iraq. And the Israelis would have forced to flee their homeland again.
We tolerate what other countries do in their own nations, unless they fund terrorist attacks against us or our allies, or unless they invade their neighbor's without just cause.
And you believe eveything that you just wrote? And you call Chavez a paranoid lunatic?

In America, there are cases of _LAWYERS_ being arrested during trials for "irrespect to the court".

Once again, show me any single journalist in jail in Venezuela. Once again, tell me what happened when CAF called to kill Chavez on TV. Once again, tell me what happened when the media did outright lies on April 11, 2002 and the following days. Once again, show me a single country in which you can call to murder the president, support a coup attempt, lie about the president having resigned, ... and get out with it, with nothing.



Ok, so if I say "US citizen, murder Bush !" in a newspaper in USA, I go away with it ? Would you like to try ? Or are you afraid to end up in Guantanamo Bay ?
1. You are talking about contempt of court. That's equivalent to obstruction of justice. It is not the same thing as jailing someone they said on tv or in the paper which does not happen in America.

2. The most that would happen would be the secret service would raise its eyebrows, ask you a couple of questions. But you would not go to jail for it. Unless you actually intended to carry it out.

And I cited journalist who were thrown in jail for their anti government remarks, in an earlier post.

tell that to the people of eastern europe.
Tell that to the pverty stricken inA emrica. Besides the USSR wasn't communist, it was a dictorship pretending to be communist. Big diffrence.

Come on Whittier, and give us a link to your "famous" 10,000 follower blog.

Edit: Do you not see the harm that all of this nonsense is doing to your country?

Could be this. (http://robertsworldview.blogspot.com/2005_05_01_robertsworldview_archive.html)

Tuesday, May 17, 2005

A South American Stalin

While the US fights terrorism abroad there is a huge threat to growing just to the south.

...

0 comments

Whittier, you've ignored several calls to this effect already - this is your final chance.


Either give us the link to your blog - perhaps it even has a hit counter so we can verify it's extensive readership - or submit that you are not only an idiot and a liar, but a coward too.

America never supported the deaths of innocents you terrorist sympathizer.

countries that all had evil regime that brutally repressed their own people and how attacked their neighbors without just cause.

We never invaded Indonesia or Chile. In fact, we never did anything with Indonesia. The support of the regime in Chile was misguided. But that was not under Bush so don't blame Bush for the shit in Chile. Same with Cambodia. Cambodia only happened because Vietnam invaded it not once but repeatedly. First before the US even stepped foot in Cambodia, we only went in to kick the Vietcong commies out. Then they did twice more after we withdrew from Vietnam and even set up a puppet socialist regime that proceeded to kill its own people. Ever hear of the Khmer Rouge?
North Korea attacked a US ally. We went in to kick their asses out of South Korea.
Laos was China and Vietnam, not just us. Our involvement in Laos was a hell of lot smaller than those two's.
Iraq, as with North Korea, would have been left alone if they had not invaded Kuwait without just cause. If Chavez was running the world at the time, Kuwait and Saudi Arabia would be part of Iraq. And the Israelis would have forced to flee their homeland again.
We tolerate what other countries do in their own nations, unless they fund terrorist attacks against us or our allies, or unless they invade their neighbor's without just cause.


So, apart from all those, America never supported the deaths of innocents?

I guess you didn't understand at all either Chavez' talk and what we said here. According to Chavez:

Jesus opposed the Roman Empire, and was murdered by the Romans.

Bolivar opposed the Spanish Empire, and died because of that.

Chavez opposes the American Empire, and saw his life threatened several times because of that.

That's what he meant. That's all.
OK I am going to say this just once. The government of the United States Of America, has never once called for Chavez assassination. The fact that Chavez continues to make such claims, the fact that Chavez falsely claims that the US is behind a nonexistent seperatist movement in one of Venezuela's provinces, the fact that he claims that the current US naval exercise in the Carribean is a prelude to a pending US attack on his nation, is proof of his paranoia.

Could be this. (http://robertsworldview.blogspot.com/2005_05_01_robertsworldview_archive.html)
BRAVO!! Well done. I did try a Google search earlier but I could find nothing.

I did notice that there were about 4 articles listed by the OP with ZERO comments for each one, a tad shy of 10,000?

Could be this. (http://robertsworldview.blogspot.com/2005_05_01_robertsworldview_archive.html)


ha ha it's brilliant

here's a sample

"On the small TV here, for every sports channel or news channel there are like 50 porn channels. But even the porn here sucks. All they have is hardcore. They don't have what I like. Which is girls stripping and dancing naked or topless. Softcore turns me on more than hardcore does. And actually, the females they have on the channels here, don't even look very good. There are better ones in the states.
I would like to build the world's biggest nightclub. That would be cool. A night club that is like so big it covers 5 city blocks. The first night, I would only allow women in. I should probably let men in too, just to be fair, but I don't like men. I only like women. I only like to talk to women and hang out with women. Maybe its a competition thing. I don't like guys cause they are competing with me for the attention of women. And I don't like competition so I ban men from my nightclub.
The main thing is, though, that I don't like it when women compare to other men they have known. There is no other man that could possibly come close to being even similar to me. I am completely different, unique, and one of a kind."

Could be this. (http://robertsworldview.blogspot.com/2005_05_01_robertsworldview_archive.html)

LOL ! 0 comments on all articles. Even I have around 10 comments per article, on my small french-only blog.

But sure, 10,000 people visit you. The OP is really either insane or a lier. Or both.

ha ha it's brilliant

here's a sample

"On the small TV here, for every sports channel or news channel there are like 50 porn channels. But even the porn here sucks. All they have is hardcore. They don't have what I like. Which is girls stripping and dancing naked or topless. Softcore turns me on more than hardcore does. And actually, the females they have on the channels here, don't even look very good. There are better ones in the states.
I would like to build the world's biggest nightclub. That would be cool. A night club that is like so big it covers 5 city blocks. The first night, I would only allow women in. I should probably let men in too, just to be fair, but I don't like men. I only like women. I only like to talk to women and hang out with women. Maybe its a competition thing. I don't like guys cause they are competing with me for the attention of women. And I don't like competition so I ban men from my nightclub.
The main thing is, though, that I don't like it when women compare to other men they have known. There is no other man that could possibly come close to being even similar to me. I am completely different, unique, and one of a kind."
The guy is comedic gold. He should really consider making a career with all the shit he comes u with.

Whittier, you've ignored several calls to this effect already - this is your final chance.


Either give us the link to your blog - perhaps it even has a hit counter so we can verify it's extensive readership - or submit that you are not only an idiot and a liar, but a coward too.
There is no counter. I can only see it when I am on the admin control page.

The link was already given. But you are too blinded by your hatred of Bush and all things American to have seen that.

OK I am going to say this just once. The government of the United States Of America, has never once called for Chavez assassination.

Pat Robertson, a political ally of Bush, did.

The leaders of the coup in 2002 visited the White House a few days before the coup. The day of the coup, only two governements in the whole world recognized the new governement: the USA and Aznar's Spain. USA gave millions of dollars to organisations that supported and participated in the coup. But sure, they had nothing to do with it.

So, apart from all those, America never supported the deaths of innocents?
that's hilarious. Now you are claiming they were all innocent of invading their nieghbors and never supported terror.
The lengths you guys will go to twist the facts to support the anti american cuase.

that's hilarious. Now you are claiming they were all innocent of invading their nieghbors and never supported terror.

No, I'm saying that as part of these operations the US supported the deaths of innocents.

OK I am going to say this just once. The government of the United States Of America, has never once called for Chavez assassination. The fact that Chavez continues to make such claims, the fact that Chavez falsely claims that the US is behind a nonexistent seperatist movement in one of Venezuela's provinces, the fact that he claims that the current US naval exercise in the Carribean is a prelude to a pending US attack on his nation, is proof of his paranoia.
The US recognized Carmona immediately after Chavez's ouster. Kind of embarassing to the US when he returned two days later huh?

To address an earlier point that you raised about "freedom of the press (http://www.progresoweekly.com/index.php?progreso=Landau&otherweek=1088830800)":

In Venezuela, the newspapers and TV stations that charge Chavez with censorship continue to attack him. The assault appears almost in daily papers like El Universal and El Nacional, on TV channels, and radio stations. In fact, Chavez has not shut down or censored media controlled by extremely powerful and very hostile tycoons. Gustavo Cisneros, known as the Rupert Murdoch of Latin America, owns Venevision TV and Venezuela’s Playboy Channel and is a partner in Coca-Cola and other multinational ventures. He and Marcel Granier, owner of Radio Caracas Television (RCTV), own over 60% of Venezuela’s TV market.

These “beleaguered heroes,” intent on saving the republic from Chavez’ dictatorship, laugh in their penthouses. In May 2004, the opposition collected enough signatures to force a referendum, but have not unified around a candidate. The referendum followed an unsuccessful coup attempt in April 2002.

During those less than two days, when anti-Chavez forces appeared to have kidnapped the President, Chamber of Commerce chief Pedro Carmona claimed he was president. Reporters from the major media didn’t even ask him. The unelected Carmona did, however, label Chavez an enemy of democracy, which he vowed to restore, with his cabinet of the rich and powerful.

Since that fiasco, some of the original coup planners have had the chutzpah to accuse Chavez of opposing democracy and call him a totalitarian, Castro-style communist/terrorist. The very people who perpetrated illegal violence to unseat an elected government now claim the word democracy. And the media does not challenge them.

One voice in the anti-Chavez chorus has a familiar ring to his voice. Former President Carlos Andres Perez gives TV and newspaper interviews as an authority on democracy and good government. Convicted of embezzlement and having given the command for army troops to fire at his own people, this mass murderer somehow claims to occupy moral high ground. And the media accepts him as if the Venezuela conflict boils down to questions of procedure, not real democracy: majority rule.


Venezuelans overwhelmingly chose Chavez in 1998 and again in 2000, because they remembered what former presidents did – a memory that neither the media nor human rights groups seem to possess.

Kinda blows your rowboat out of the water?

There is no counter. I can only see it when I am on the admin control page.


So you have learned that your blog has received 10,000 hits and have taken that to mean it has a regular readership of 10,000? Oh dear.



The link was already given. But you are too blinded by your hatred of Bush and all things American to have seen that.

Hmm, perhaps that link was posted whilst I was writing my post. It certainly wasn't provided by yourself.

Still at least we know why you were reluctant to provide it. Some of the stuff on there is embarrassing in the extreme.

Since you clearly don't your socialist *** from a hole in the ground I'll explain it to you.
It's called the fog of war. When you go to war, the accidental deaths of innocents is unavoidable no matter how advanced your technology. If you were the President you would have just sat on your candy ass, and let North Korea take over South Korea, let the vietcong butcher prolifers in South Vietnam, let Saddam take over Kuwait and Saudi, and did absolutely nothing when Al Qaeda carried out 911.

Clinton was a socialist pussy. Bush is a President that doesn't take shit from anyone. That is why you don't like him. Because he is standing up to all the bad guys.

You would have supported Hitler during world war II.

There is no counter. I can only see it when I am on the admin control page.

The link was already given. But you are too blinded by your hatred of Bush and all things American to have seen that.
But there are ZERO replies to your posts. Are your 10,000 supporters ALL lurkers?

Some of the stuff on there is embarrassing in the extreme.

Why, because unlike everyone else, I am a real American.

.

that's hilarious. Now you are claiming they were all innocent of invading their nieghbors and never supported terror.
The lengths you guys will go to twist the facts to support the anti american cuase.
The length you guys will go to support a pro-American cause.

Lets see, Indonisa you supported a repressive regime, Chile you supported a repressive, murderious regime. I was udner the impression that Vietnam never invaded Cambodia and Loas, but the US didn. To stop the Ho Chi Minh road I balive. And yous et up a puppet capitalist regime that proceeded to massicar the buddests (Diems goverment) then supported a serise of millitary coups. You do realise that ho Chi Minh was the elected presedent of south Vietnam. But hey, elections arn't actually valid if the person the US wants in dosn't get elected, are they?

Since you clearly don't your socialist *** from a hole in the ground I'll explain it to you.

Since when have I been a socialist? My ass always has been and is likely to remain an anarchist ass, darling.


It's called the fog of war. When you go to war, the accidental deaths of innocents is unavoidable no matter how advanced your technology.


Ergo, the US supported the deaths of innocent people.


Anyhoo... care to talk about the American support for the Contras and how they never killed any innocent people? The US wasn't at war, so your flimsy justification that you just provided certainly wouldn't fly there.

You would have supported Hitler during world war II.


And it inevitably appears....

(Edit - I know you're not very clever, but don't you mean Stalin?)

Could be this. (http://robertsworldview.blogspot.com/2005_05_01_robertsworldview_archive.html)

So out of his 10,000 readers, none of them commented on it?

let the vietcong butcher prolifers in South Vietnam, let Saddam take over Kuwait and Saudi, and did absolutely nothing when Al Qaeda carried out 911.
Yeah, let the vietcong butcher...what? Whats has rthe abortion debate got to do with this, why are pro-lifers invoved? Anyway, I suppose that the heroric US troops with the Agent Orange, Mai-Li massicars, concetnration camps, unelected puppet regimes and 100,000s of innocent women and childrens blood on there hands wern't butcher eather. At least the Vietcong only attacked (Mainly) millitatu targets, rarther than anythingt hat mvoed.

Clinton was a socialist pussy. Bush is a President that doesn't take shit from anyone. That is why you don't like him. Because he is standing up to all the bad guys.

You would have supported Hitler during world war II.
No he dosn't take shit from no-one. thats why the US is now the most hated county on the planet, seems to have forgetten about a little thing called bemloacy, got into a needless pointless war that was just plaiun stupid. But at least you want to co-exist with fish peacfully, right. (Quote-"I balive mankind and Fish can co-exist peacfully" George W. Bush.)

And why the hell would I have supported Hitler?

The US recognized Carmona immediately after Chavez's ouster. Kind of embarassing to the US when he returned two days later huh?

To address an earlier point that you raised about "freedom of the press (http://www.progresoweekly.com/index.php?progreso=Landau&otherweek=1088830800)":

In Venezuela, the newspapers and TV stations that charge Chavez with censorship continue to attack him. The assault appears almost in daily papers like El Universal and El Nacional, on TV channels, and radio stations. In fact, Chavez has not shut down or censored media controlled by extremely powerful and very hostile tycoons. Gustavo Cisneros, known as the Rupert Murdoch of Latin America, owns Venevision TV and Venezuela’s Playboy Channel and is a partner in Coca-Cola and other multinational ventures. He and Marcel Granier, owner of Radio Caracas Television (RCTV), own over 60% of Venezuela’s TV market.

These “beleaguered heroes,” intent on saving the republic from Chavez’ dictatorship, laugh in their penthouses. In May 2004, the opposition collected enough signatures to force a referendum, but have not unified around a candidate. The referendum followed an unsuccessful coup attempt in April 2002.

During those less than two days, when anti-Chavez forces appeared to have kidnapped the President, Chamber of Commerce chief Pedro Carmona claimed he was president. Reporters from the major media didn’t even ask him. The unelected Carmona did, however, label Chavez an enemy of democracy, which he vowed to restore, with his cabinet of the rich and powerful.

Since that fiasco, some of the original coup planners have had the chutzpah to accuse Chavez of opposing democracy and call him a totalitarian, Castro-style communist/terrorist. The very people who perpetrated illegal violence to unseat an elected government now claim the word democracy. And the media does not challenge them.

One voice in the anti-Chavez chorus has a familiar ring to his voice. Former President Carlos Andres Perez gives TV and newspaper interviews as an authority on democracy and good government. Convicted of embezzlement and having given the command for army troops to fire at his own people, this mass murderer somehow claims to occupy moral high ground. And the media accepts him as if the Venezuela conflict boils down to questions of procedure, not real democracy: majority rule.


Venezuelans overwhelmingly chose Chavez in 1998 and again in 2000, because they remembered what former presidents did – a memory that neither the media nor human rights groups seem to possess.

Kinda blows your rowboat out of the water?

1. You keep leaving out that when we found out what actually happened, the US condemned the coup and demanded the return of the elected leadership. You always leave out that the US threatened the coup with certain actions unless they restored Chavez. The same US that Chavez claims is trying to kill him. He was restored two days later after US diplomatic efforts. If not for that, there would have been a civil war.
If not for the US the coup would still be running Venezuela.

So you have learned that your blog has received 10,000 hits and have taken that to mean it has a regular readership of 10,000? Oh dear.

I'm pretty sure he counts search engine bots, too. That enough could be thousands of hits per months (we often saw that in the hosting company I'm working at, customers asking "why do you say we have so few hits, on our previous hosting company, we had much more ?" because the previous company counted the bots too... the difference is really in thousands.)