NationStates Jolt Archive


Why do the British hate the Germans?

Neu Leonstein
20-04-2006, 02:32
http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,411791,00.html
http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,355598,00.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4923906.stm
There is little the British tabloid press likes more than the chance to have a go at Germany and the Germans.

Mrs Merkel is the latest target. The Sun printed the photos under one of its trademark puns: "I'm Big in the Bumdestag".

I mean...why? Why would you do that?

The British and the Germans are so similar (http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,411937,00.html), they could live in the same country. There is virtually nothing that is not the same in both countries.

Yet, the British media in particular likes to have a go, whenever possible. It's utterly ridiculous.

And that quite beside the point of making such a difference between a male and a female head of state, the fact that a bloody sixty-year old woman will not look like a model, and that her body shape is of no consequence to her job.
The Cat-Tribe
20-04-2006, 02:33
I think there have been some wars that might be relevant.
Nadkor
20-04-2006, 02:37
And that quite beside the point of making such a difference between a male and a female head of state, the fact that a bloody sixty-year old woman will not look like a model, and that her body shape is of no consequence to her job.
What's the female/male head of state thing about? We've got a female head of state :p

And anyway, it's the Sun. Only retards actually buy it for the news, the other 15% of its readership only buy it so they fit in with the rest of the office ogling page 3.
Neu Leonstein
20-04-2006, 02:38
I think there have been some wars that might be relevant.
Which was of course sixty years ago, and is no longer relevant to anything.
Kulikovo
20-04-2006, 02:40
What are you talking about? The Germans and British have always been close friends and allies :D
Dissonant Cognition
20-04-2006, 02:40
I mean...why? Why would you do that?


Because it sells newspapers.


There are two distinct uses of the term today. The more recent usage, actually deriving from the original usage, refers to weekly or semi-weekly alternative papers in tabloid format. Many of these are essentially straightforward newspapers, publishing in tabloid format. What principally distinguishes these from the dailies, in addition to their less-frequent publication, is the fact that they are usually free to the user, relying on ad revenue, as well as the fact that they tend to concentrate more on local entertainment scenes and issues.

In its traditional sense, tabloids tend to emphasise sensational stories and are reportedly prone to create their news if they feel that the subjects cannot, or will not, sue for libel. In this respect, much of the content of the tabloid press could be said to fall into the category of junk food news

(emphasis added)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tabloid

If I wanted to assess the quality of relations between two states, a tabloid newspaper would not be among my research sources. (In fact, I probably wouldn't consult any newspaper as their primary purposes tend to be to attract advertisements and to sell subscriptions)
Galloism
20-04-2006, 02:42
Which was of course sixty years ago, and is no longer relevant to anything.

Old grudges die hard.
Bodies Without Organs
20-04-2006, 02:44
Old grudges die hard.

Hold grudges, not hands.

I mean...why? Why would you do that?

Consider it educational: the percentage of Sun readers who knew that Merkel was Chancellor has probably increased slightly as a result.
Kulikovo
20-04-2006, 02:46
There's nothing wrong. There aren't any tensions. Hell, look at this picture of the German army:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/theoffice/images/yourgallery/germans.jpg

These guys aren't going on a conquering spree anytime soon. Though those tabloids piss me off.
Neu Leonstein
20-04-2006, 02:46
Because it sells newspapers.
So, would you say that the British actually like the Germans? Or that they could actually hear the word "Germany" without falling into romantic recollections of former glory and the demonisation of the other side that comes with it?

Why can I not tell someone that I'm German without getting involved in discussions about the war?
The Cat-Tribe
20-04-2006, 02:46
Which was of course sixty years ago, and is no longer relevant to anything.

Did I say I agreed or that it was justified?
Nadkor
20-04-2006, 02:47
Most people realise it's all in the past and that the Brits and the Germans are actually very similar...think of it like a sibling rivalry, or a bit of friendly banter. Nothing more serious than that.
Dissonant Cognition
20-04-2006, 02:52
So, would you say that the British actually like the Germans?


I wouldn't answer either way because I am not particularly well studied on the issue of British-German relations. Basic empirical observation of the stacks of magazines and tabloids at the supermarket checkout line, however, leaves me confident in asserting that the average tabloid newspaper is garbage.
Neu Leonstein
20-04-2006, 02:52
Most people realise it's all in the past and that the Brits and the Germans are actually very similar...think of it like a sibling rivalry, or a bit of friendly banter. Nothing more serious than that.
But then...there really is nothing coming from the German side, is there? Stereotyping isn't done, and if it is (http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,408650,00.html), all hell breaks loose.
You tell me that a British ad featuring Nazi-Germans would get the same treatment.
Mackinau
20-04-2006, 02:53
.....

You do realize that The Sun is the greatest shame in the history of the press? I mean, they're worse than pretty much every other British tabloid.

And, it's just typical of British tabloids to insult everyone.
Von Witzleben
20-04-2006, 02:54
There is virtually nothing that is not the same in both countries.

Yet, the British media in particular likes to have a go, whenever possible. It's utterly ridiculous.

Yeah. Try doing that in a German paper for a longer period about the UK. We'll see how long it will take before you have to apply for HIV.
Bodies Without Organs
20-04-2006, 02:56
.....

You do realize that The Sun is the greatest shame in the history of the press?


Really? The best selling english language daily newspaper in the world is a shame to the rest of the press?
Nadkor
20-04-2006, 02:56
But then...there really is nothing coming from the German side, is there? Stereotyping isn't done, and if it is (http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,408650,00.html), all hell breaks loose.
You tell me that a British ad featuring Nazi-Germans would get the same treatment.
An ad that distasteful wouldn't even be allowed to be shown, to be honest.

I mean, an ad for Australia had to be pulled because they thought it was too stereotypical...and the ad was produced by the Australian tourism agency.
The Psyker
20-04-2006, 02:57
An ad that distasteful wouldn't even be allowed to be shown, to be honest.

I mean, an ad for Australia had to be pulled because they thought it was too stereotypical...and the ad was produced by the Australian tourism agency.
:p Now thats just funny.
Neu Leonstein
20-04-2006, 03:00
:p Now thats just funny.
Well, it said "Where the bloody hell are ya?!"

Can't have that...:rolleyes:
Nadkor
20-04-2006, 03:10
Well, it said "Where the bloody hell are ya?!"

Can't have that...:rolleyes:
So what chance would you think an ad portraying Nazis as being typical of Germans would have?
Disturnn
20-04-2006, 03:31
Biologically speaking, the English are in fact GERMAN. They are GERMANS speaking a language with foreign influence. But they are in fact from Germany, invading England in 500 AD, and becoming the dominant figure on the isles. Why oh why would they do this, I have no idea. They basically are making fun of themselves. To be honest(I'm German) but British and German women aren't exactly the hottest around.
Dude111
20-04-2006, 03:34
I'm neither british nor german, so I shouldn't be on this thread. Bye.
AB Again
20-04-2006, 03:49
Why can I not tell someone that I'm German without getting involved in discussions about the war?

All you have to do is admit to being German but reassure the Brit that you are not, in any way, French.
AB Again
20-04-2006, 03:51
Really? The best selling english language daily newspaper in the world is a shame to the rest of the press?

The use of this term in connection with The Sun is highly dubious. You will have to show how, and when, The Sun could possibly have been consider a source of news.
The Atlantian islands
20-04-2006, 03:51
Which was of course sixty years ago, and is no longer relevant to anything.

You could tell the same to many Southerners about the Civil War.

Minus the sixty years ago part...

Anyway...the press is shit...they publish anything to get ratings and a story...I truley doubt this "ill feeling of Germans" goes anywhere beyond the liberal media.

As to why Germany gets into trouble for making fun of Poland....I think cracking on Poles is alot different than cracking on civilized countries like England...more so due to your country's past.

I doubt that if Germany were to crack on England...there were be much ado about it.

Just suck it up Germany....go ahead, make fun of Tony.

Psss....I heard he dresses up in high heels after a stressful day at the office :D
Megaloria
20-04-2006, 03:55
Probably something to do with the automotive industry and sausage envy.
H N Fiddlebottoms VIII
20-04-2006, 04:00
I blame the Belgians, personally (Since I've already been beaten to the WWII reference, might as well dig back to the prequel).
The Atlantian islands
20-04-2006, 04:00
Biologically speaking, the English are in fact GERMAN. They are GERMANS speaking a language with foreign influence. But they are in fact from Germany, invading England in 500 AD, and becoming the dominant figure on the isles. Why oh why would they do this, I have no idea. They basically are making fun of themselves. To be honest(I'm German) but British and German women aren't exactly the hottest around.

I think your looking for the word GERMANIC.
Megaloria
20-04-2006, 04:01
I think your looking for the word GERMANIC.

Some of them might be Germanic-Depressive.
Von Witzleben
20-04-2006, 04:04
Biologically speaking, the English are in fact GERMAN. They are GERMANS speaking a language with foreign influence. But they are in fact from Germany, invading England in 500 AD, and becoming the dominant figure on the isles. Why oh why would they do this, I have no idea. They basically are making fun of themselves. To be honest(I'm German) but British and German women aren't exactly the hottest around.
The Saxons where from Germany. The Anglo's and the Jutes where from Denmark. And the there were Frisians who came from what is now the Netherlands.
Paxus amitius
20-04-2006, 04:06
I don't know anybody of my age who thinks of Germany as anything other than another EU state. Yeah, so they know we once had a war, but the only time that'll come up is when they beat us at football, and then as a joke. (I'm not saying whether it's right or wrong to joke about such things). I'm English and am a student at a UK university studying a degree in German, and I have nothing but admiration for all German speaking people and their cultures. Yes, I would discuss the war with a German person. I think it's interesting to see what is taught on both sides of the pond (and in my experience, it's fairly similar - an objective view of events). But I wouldn't bring it up straight away. It's just another conversation topic - I'd be just as likely to talk about the latest fashions or medieval literature! So there are some English people who bear a grudge. So what? There are some German people who bear a grudge. And having spent a summer selling advertising to French people, I can tell you that there are certainly French people who bear a grudge against the English.

It is also important, when dealing with the English media, to know that WE LIKE TO TAKE THE MICKEY. It's traditional to make jokes about just about every other nationality in Europe - the French are beret wearing frog eaters, the Germans love sausage, the Welsh love sheep, the Spanish are all latino lovers with lisps... but we don't actually take any of it seriously!! It's all a joke!! Nobody here believes that the average french person wanders about in a stripy jumper saying 'hon-hee-hon-hee-hon' than anyone here actually sticks out their little finger when drinking tea.

Sorry to post a rant, but this sort of thing proper gets on my goat!
The Atlantian islands
20-04-2006, 04:11
The Saxons where from Germany. The Anglo's and the Jutes where from Denmark. And the there were Frisians who came from what is now the Netherlands.

Hence why I said the word he was looking for was GermanIC.
The Atlantian islands
20-04-2006, 04:16
The Saxons where from Germany. The Anglo's and the Jutes where from Denmark. And the there were Frisians who came from what is now the Netherlands.

Hence why I said the word he was looking for was GermanIC.
Neu Leonstein
20-04-2006, 04:18
So what chance would you think an ad portraying Nazis as being typical of Germans would have?
http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3a40c4260766.htm
:p
Neu Leonstein
20-04-2006, 04:25
Sorry to post a rant, but this sort of thing proper gets on my goat!
I'm sorry, but to me it just seems like the British simply cannot put the war behind them.
There are plenty of things to make fun of that are cool - but when the reason is that there was once a war, the humour always acquires a bitter after taste.
Lacadaemon
20-04-2006, 04:35
The British and the Germans are so similar (http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,411937,00.html), they could live in the same country. There is virtually nothing that is not the same in both countries.


Yah, absent the propensity to build death factories and instigate mass slaughter, you can barely tell the two apart. (Oh, and the egowanking about economic miracles).

The british have a sense of humour however.
Glorfinniel
20-04-2006, 04:39
The Saxons where from Germany. The Anglo's and the Jutes where from Denmark. And the there were Frisians who came from what is now the Netherlands.

True.
But it was mostly men who came across the Nordsee on those longboats. Brunhilde in her Viking helm did not invade Britannia.

So, those Germanic MEN landed, and took over, but they married or at any rate took, settled down and had kids with mostly British women, and they were Celts, like the Irish.

So, while it is said that English is a Germanic language (really it's a creole between old Anglo-Saxon and French, and about as French and Latin as it is Germanic, and its very simplicity is due to it's having been a creole), the usual identification of the British as "Germanic" peoples is a 19th Century "Age of Nations" fiction. What the English REALLY are, are Celto-Germanic people, with a Latin-Germanic language. They're as Irish as they are German - anciently it was Germanic men and Celtic women who becamed the English.

Which makes the English ethnically much more like the French, who are also a Celtic stock, but with Italic and Germanic overlays. The Germans, much like the Irish and the Scots, are really much more "purebred" culturally.
The English, like the French (though less so, because of being on a then-remote island) are really a Celtic people heavily suffused with Germanic overtones.

Now, this really is obvious if you just think about it for a minute. But why, then, did the English STRESS the Germanic nature of the country and language in the 19th Century, when racial theory came in vogue?

Uh, because the truth is that the English are ethnically Irish in stock, with a language that's more French than anything else. The latter injury is barely tolerable - France has been responsible for much in England, and despite the bad blood, 1000 years of real fear builds respect.

But it's just damned near INTOLERABLE for the England of Victoria to go about thinking of itself as a CELTIC country. I mean GOOD GOD! England as Greater Ireland? It's ethnically more true than England as a Germanic country, but there is no way in hell that the English then or now, would ever, ever, ever, ever accept that. It's true, but it's a bridge too far.
Neu Leonstein
20-04-2006, 04:47
-snip-
I knew you'd like this thread.
Avropolis
20-04-2006, 05:55
Just a small point on the relevance of WW2.

My grandfather fought in the war, and he's still about. He has no problem with Germany in it's current form. I have no problem with Germany, though I will confess to having a laugh at what some would deem "German-bashing".

For the most part it's harmless fun, though of course some people will take it too far.

But to get back to my actual point, while in Germany I was impressed by the affulence and intelligence of it's people, but when seeing a person of my Grandfathers age I couldn't help thinking, so what were you doing back then mate?

I know most likely the guy was a perfectly pleasent old gentleman who if he played a part in the war was again most likely in the same way my grandfather did, he fought for his country. Or did this pleasent old guy spend his youth herding people into extermination chambers?

I confess myself to be guilty of thinking of the Germans in ways that are no longer applicable on occasion, but I do try not to and do appreciate what germany has become in the last 60 years, as a fellow member of the EU I'm happy to have Germany as a friend and ally.
Von Witzleben
20-04-2006, 06:23
True.
But it was mostly men who came across the Nordsee on those longboats. Brunhilde in her Viking helm did not invade Britannia.
Says who?

So, those Germanic MEN landed, and took over, but they married or at any rate took, settled down and had kids with mostly British women, and they were Celts, like the Irish.

I doubt that the Britons of those days were very Celtic after 400 years under Roman rule.
There was once a piece on Discovery. The Saxons forbid the men, the Celto-Romanics, to have children. And took the women for themselves. And a hundred years later the Celtic DNA was gone, or very weak, from England.
Harlesburg
20-04-2006, 06:43
http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,411791,00.html
http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,355598,00.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4923906.stm


I mean...why? Why would you do that?

The British and the Germans are so similar (http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,411937,00.html), they could live in the same country. There is virtually nothing that is not the same in both countries.

Yet, the British media in particular likes to have a go, whenever possible. It's utterly ridiculous.

And that quite beside the point of making such a difference between a male and a female head of state, the fact that a bloody sixty-year old woman will not look like a model, and that her body shape is of no consequence to her job.
Did you notice how it said Tabloid?-I'd start there if you want to dismiss it.

However seeing as Cat Tribes said the wars and H N Fiddlebottoms said Belgians i'll go with the Swiss.
Just make up your mind if you want the country or not.
Neu Leonstein
20-04-2006, 06:46
Did you notice how it said Tabloid?-I'd start there if you want to dismiss it.
Tabloids are the voices of the unwashed masses, aren't they?
Harlesburg
20-04-2006, 07:50
Tabloids are the voices of the unwashed masses, aren't they?
Unwashed masses/Poles.

Yes, it might also have something to do with Football World Cups.
Neu Leonstein
20-04-2006, 07:53
Unwashed masses/Poles.

Yes, it might also have something to do with Football World Cups.
I was being serious though. Tabloids live of people buying them in their millions. They rely on the dumb, the uneducated, the "unwashed masses".

So for the masses to buy them, don't the tabloids have to tell them what they want to hear?

And this doesn't go just for this specific case, or just for Britain. This goes for all tabloids, on all issues, in all countries.
Harlesburg
20-04-2006, 07:59
I was being serious though. Tabloids live of people buying them in their millions. They rely on the dumb, the uneducated, the "unwashed masses".

So for the masses to buy them, don't the tabloids have to tell them what they want to hear?

And this doesn't go just for this specific case, or just for Britain. This goes for all tabloids, on all issues, in all countries.
I was too...

Seriously just look at the 'The Suns' website it is utter trash.
I hate the things as much as Womens Mags.
Kievan-Prussia
20-04-2006, 08:11
I confess myself to be guilty of thinking of the Germans in ways that are no longer applicable on occasion, but I do try not to and do appreciate what germany has become in the last 60 years, as a fellow member of the EU I'm happy to have Germany as a friend and ally.

See, that's EXACTLY why I wish Germany was fragmented, ala the early to mid 19th century. That way we southerners can point to Berlin and say "Yeah, we're not really like them."
Undelia
20-04-2006, 08:46
http://www.mda.mil/mdalink/bcmt/images/images_lg/v-2.jpg
Sixty years is not a long time ago.
Harlesburg
20-04-2006, 08:49
http://www.mda.mil/mdalink/bcmt/images/images_lg/v-2.jpg
Sixty years is not a long time ago.
LOL
http://forums.rebelalliance.ws/images/smiles/dancing_pickle.gif
Kievan-Prussia
20-04-2006, 08:50
http://www.mda.mil/mdalink/bcmt/images/images_lg/v-2.jpg
Sixty years is not a long time ago.

Neither is 140. Fucking Confederate, slaving owning motherfucker.
Neu Leonstein
20-04-2006, 08:51
Sixty years is not a long time ago.
I don't have anything to do with it. My parents don't have anything to do with it. Hell, only one of my four grandparents could be considered to have had something to do with it.

And the same goes for my equivalent in Britain.

And besides, more German civilians were killed in the war by the British than vice versa. But the grudges seem to be rather one-sided.
Harlesburg
20-04-2006, 08:56
Neither is 140. Fucking Confederate, slaving owning motherfucker.
Speek teh goot engrish nou?
Undelia
20-04-2006, 09:01
Neither is 140. Fucking Confederate, slaving owning motherfucker.
You say that like it’s a joke, but sixty years after the Civil War, corporations and the federal government still went out of their way to stiff the South.
I don't have anything to do with it. My parents don't have anything to do with it. Hell, only one of my four grandparents could be considered to have had something to do with it.

And the same goes for my equivalent in Britain.
With the romantic aspects that have been applied to World War Two over the years, people like to pretend they have something to do with it, especially the “noble” “freedom loving” Allies, trying to “make the world safe for Democracy.”
And besides, more German civilians were killed in the war by the British than vice versa. But the grudges seem to be rather one-sided.
Of course. It’s an episode in history that I’m sure the Germans wish they could forget about, and a topic that they seem to take far more seriously.
Caffeineia
20-04-2006, 09:09
I don't have figures to support it, but I would imagine that relatively few Germans actually supported what Germany was doing during the 30's and 40's. Initially, the people were just angry because there was a huge depression after all of Europe decided that Germany should have to pay the costs of WWI. By the time WWII broke out, the Nazi party had such a hold on the nation that no one dared try to organize anything, because you didn't know who to trust. I would imagine that the average German citizen was just as much a victim as the average French or British citizen. To hate Germans in general because of what the rulers did is just plain stupid.
Elms Hill
20-04-2006, 09:19
theres also the little matter of riavl football clubs! think of the world cup!
DEV0106A
20-04-2006, 09:37
So, would you say that the British actually like the Germans? Or that they could actually hear the word "Germany" without falling into romantic recollections of former glory and the demonisation of the other side that comes with it?

Why can I not tell someone that I'm German without getting involved in discussions about the war?

Perhaps you are obsessed?

I would say that the Germans are relatively popular with the English, if not popular then certainly respected.

For those international readers, The Sun is an insidious version of the National Enquirer.
Valdania
20-04-2006, 09:41
The French are generally a lot less popular with the average Briton than the Germans; and the feeling is often mutual.

The British tabloid press are the worst in the world; they're just getting started in the run-up to the World Cup. There were some appalling headlines in Euro 96, I imagine it will be even worse this summer.
Pure Metal
20-04-2006, 10:54
http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,411791,00.html
http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,355598,00.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4923906.stm


I mean...why? Why would you do that?

The British and the Germans are so similar (http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,411937,00.html), they could live in the same country. There is virtually nothing that is not the same in both countries.

Yet, the British media in particular likes to have a go, whenever possible. It's utterly ridiculous.

And that quite beside the point of making such a difference between a male and a female head of state, the fact that a bloody sixty-year old woman will not look like a model, and that her body shape is of no consequence to her job.
its the sun. the sun is a stupid "newspaper" (tenititve to actually call it that), just like the mail and many other tabloids... the readers are moronic and if the sun tells them to be nationalistic they will be. its all a load of toss and an entire section of society and the country that i can - and do - happily ignore.

this faux instilled nationalism a) sells papers and b) is a prominent reason for any "hatred". it really is stupid....
Jesuites
20-04-2006, 11:10
Which was of course sixty years ago, and is no longer relevant to anything.
Are you sure?
Why then so many jewish organizations are still making lotta money with that war?

'bout the Brits I understand they're a bit curious with German, maybe coz German are richer and buy all the British Prestige companies... (Jaguar, Rolls Royce, Rover)
Philosopy
20-04-2006, 11:18
So for the masses to buy them, don't the tabloids have to tell them what they want to hear?
Actually, no; the latest figures show that the tabloids are currently very bad at telling the readership what they want to hear. Circulation figures show the tabloids in freefall; The Sun's readership is now at its lowest levels since the 1970s. It seems that with 24 hour news and the internet, even the 'masses' can't be bothered with the comic that The Sun is.
Darknovae
20-04-2006, 11:42
The Sun...???

There's a tabloid called the Sun here in the US, but all I've ever seen it publish was stuff like "BIBLICAL ARMAGEDDON PROPHECIES BLAH BLAH BLAH" so not sure if it's the same paper...

Obviously I'm not British or German, but I do appreciate the British sense of humor. I'm not so sure what he Germans are like, but a lot of people here think they're Nazis. Still. Idiots.
Yootopia
20-04-2006, 11:49
Quite a lot of British people don't like Germans because, due to the incessant re-runs of "The World at War" and suchlike, for most Britons - German = Nazi.

And it's not just the Brits, I'm afraid. If ever I use German to speak to a German person online, on an American CS or Ricochet server, then despite me blatentely being a Brit (due to the way I talk, I suppose), I'm immediately labelled as some kind of Nazi.

Which is a shame, as most German people are quite friendly and are generally alright people.
Carisbrooke
20-04-2006, 12:06
Making fun of people is a British humour thing, We make fun of our own government, the French, Germans, Americans, Australians etc etc...I am thinking of the whole Royal family and how the press rip into them when the mood suits them. My Canadian is honestly shocked at how harsh our press is compared to the North American press...If a tabloid newspaper that has pictures of naked women as one of its main selling points prints a picture of any woman that is not size 6 with big breasts, it will generally be making fun of her....nobody thinks of what the papers say as if it is national policy...

As to the War, it is within living memory and I can understand that people do have some issues because of that, and rest assured that its not just with Germany, it is also with the 'Cruel merciless 'Japanese, The 'cowardly colaborating' French, The 'Slightly innept and amusing' Italians, the 'Over-paid, over-sexed and over here' Americans....I could go on, I hope that you all know what I am trying to get at here....
Marech
20-04-2006, 12:10
A lot of it is to do with 'national identity'. To create an identity you have to emphasise the apparent differences, the 'us' and the 'them'.

The French have been our allies for over a century... yet even so they get worse treatment than the germans in the tabloids... we drag up the battles of Agincourt, Trafalgar and Waterloo at every opportunity, though conveniently we neglect to mention the role of the Belgians and Dutch in the last one. If we hate any nation in truth... it is the French.

We have war films on TV at every available holiday period... Invariably featuring the 'good' allies and the 'bad' germans... the Japanese rarely get a look in. "The Desert Fox" doesn't get shown much as the concept of a 'good' german doesn't sit too well, yet Rommel was respected by many British soldiers at the time.

You can then move on to the world cup.... It is such a miracle for us to beat the germans that we really play this up, the only time we have won the cup was against germany in the final, so that is constantly brought up. The truth is... Germany is the benchmark we measure our team against, if we can beat the germans, we can beat anyone, or at least that is the theory.

The Sun represents Britain in all its flag-waving xenophobic glory, when we don't actually have enemies, it reminds us of past ones, all to keep the idea of 'Great Britain' going.

Most english people would actually avoid mentioning the war to a german, we would think it was impolite to remind them that they lost.

I don't really suppose any country is different in this regard, I'm sure Germany has its chosen people to dislike or make fun of, the French certainly do, and it is usually the media that keep the pots boiling.

I've visited many european countries and in each one I've found people to be just the same... friendly, curious and polite. I would like to believe that people coming here find us the same.

*Point of order* The Welsh do not love sheep... it is purely a no-strings relationship
Lemmyouia
20-04-2006, 12:16
I embrace my German friends!:fluffle:
Anarchic Conceptions
20-04-2006, 12:20
Which was of course sixty years ago, and is no longer relevant to anything.

You'd think so. Though we would probably stick two fingers up to any passing Frenchman and shout "Agincourt" if only we could pronounce it.
Cypresaria
20-04-2006, 12:22
If we hate any nation in truth... it is the French.

We have war films on TV at every available holiday period... Invariably featuring the 'good' allies and the 'bad' germans... the Japanese rarely get a look in. "The Desert Fox" doesn't get shown much as the concept of a 'good' german doesn't sit too well, yet Rommel was respected by many British soldiers at the time.



Speaking to some German friends once, if theres one nation they hate its the French ... come to think of it a dutch friend said that too:D

My father lived through the war and told me we never defeated the german people, we defeated the Nazi government and liberated the german people from them as well as most of the rest of europe.

Rommel was a good general, thank gawd Hitler was such an idiot he never put Rommel in charge of the german army
Lemmyouia
20-04-2006, 12:23
You'd think so. Though we would probably stick two fingers up to any passing Frenchman and shout "Agincourt" if only we could pronounce it.
Yeah, we're arseholes, aren't we?
Marech
20-04-2006, 12:25
As to the War, it is within living memory and I can understand that people do have some issues because of that, and rest assured that its not just with Germany, it is also with the 'Cruel merciless 'Japanese, The 'cowardly colaborating' French, The 'Slightly innept and amusing' Italians, the 'Over-paid, over-sexed and over here' Americans....I could go on, I hope that you all know what I am trying to get at here....

Quite true... yet I have experienced in my youth a group of german ex-soldiers and british ex-soldiers of that time sat at the same table drinking together and discussing the war and their experiences without animosity and much laughter.

I even dated one of their daughters ;)
Lemmyouia
20-04-2006, 12:27
How are countries meant to get along when people won't even talk to each other in the same block of flats?
Anarchic Conceptions
20-04-2006, 12:30
How are countries meant to get along when people won't even talk to each other in the same block of flats?

Or in the case of my flat, within the same flat. Which has split into three distinct factions.
Marech
20-04-2006, 12:31
You'd think so. Though we would probably stick two fingers up to any passing Frenchman and shout "Agincourt" if only we could pronounce it.

I do get a great deal of satisfaction when they struggle to respond to that.

As the French book of war victories is very short you'd think they would have memorised it.
Yootopia
20-04-2006, 12:33
I do get a great deal of satisfaction when they struggle to respond to that.

As the French book of war victories is very short you'd think they would have memorised it.

Apart from the Napoleonic Wars, of course. And world war one. And some of the crusades. And taking over Britain, actually.
Marech
20-04-2006, 12:33
Or in the case of my flat, within the same flat. Which has split into three distinct factions.

Been there, done that... I took on the role of the UN... tried to keep the peace but mostly stood by and watched the carnage.
Carisbrooke
20-04-2006, 12:34
I do get a great deal of satisfaction when they struggle to respond to that.

As the French book of war victories is very short you'd think they would have memorised it.

They didn't WIN at Agincourt either...hence the two fingers salut, that is the origin of said 'V' sign. I recently visited a local church and there is a guy buried there who fought at Agincourt, rather cool I thought. But I am a bit of a geek sometimes....
Lemmyouia
20-04-2006, 12:35
Apart from the Napoleonic Wars, of course. And world war one. And some of the crusades. And taking over Britain, actually.
Yeah, back in 1066...
Psychotic Mongooses
20-04-2006, 12:36
I do get a great deal of satisfaction when they struggle to respond to that.

As the French book of war victories is very short you'd think they would have memorised it.

:rolleyes:

Ugh....
Kievan-Prussia
20-04-2006, 12:38
I do get a great deal of satisfaction when they struggle to respond to that.

As the French book of war victories is very short you'd think they would have memorised it.

And the German book of war victories is non-existant. So why do French get such a bad rap?
Cybach
20-04-2006, 12:39
But then...there really is nothing coming from the German side, is there? Stereotyping isn't done, and if it is (http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,408650,00.html), all hell breaks loose.
You tell me that a British ad featuring Nazi-Germans would get the same treatment.


"The ad was playing on a widespread prejudice in Germany that Poles steal anything not nailed down." :eek:
Psychotic Mongooses
20-04-2006, 12:40
They didn't WIN at Agincourt either...hence the two fingers salut, that is the origin of said 'V' sign. I recently visited a local church and there is a guy buried there who fought at Agincourt, rather cool I thought. But I am a bit of a geek sometimes....

http://www.snopes.com/language/apocryph/pluckyew.htm

False.
Whereyouthinkyougoing
20-04-2006, 12:42
Sorry to post a rant, but this sort of thing proper gets on my goat! That wasn't a rant, that was one of that rarest of species: a good first post. Without gun smilies, to boot. :p

I don't really suppose any country is different in this regard, I'm sure Germany has its chosen people to dislike or make fun of, the French certainly do, and it is usually the media that keep the pots boiling.Well, maybe so - but as far as I can tell, it's a question of degree. I'm sure everybody has their stereotypes and maybe even jokes about those - here in Germany, if you would have to write a satirical piece or draw a caricature, you'd certainly go for the same old staples like the French with stripey shirt, beret, baguette under one arm; the Italian/Spanish with a mustache, holding siesta and postponing everything to "tomorrow, tomorrow"; the English in a black suit, bowler hat, umbrella on one arm, cup of tea in hand; etc.

But that's really pretty much as far as it goes. We don't even have that many jokes about either of those peoples. The only and meanest jokes that come to mind (fellow Germans, please remind me if I'm forgetting other totally obvious ones) are actually Polish jokes, which were en vogue a few years ago and basically featured Poles stealing whatever they could get their hands on, especially cars. (Interestingly enough, we have no real stereotype of the Polish - apart from stealing cars, I guess).

So, apart from lately having been pretty mean to the Poles, we're actually really, really tame in our stereotypes - which is probably the reason why the British brand of tabloid humour leaves us so speechless.

And the British are really the only ones carrying on like that. I mean, as a German you're already somewhat weary whereever you travel, always kind of ready to explain or apologize and hoping not to offend just because of your nationality. And that's in countries where not every second word in tabloid headlines about Germany is blitz or krauts or reich or whatever. So yeah, I guess that just pretty much hits us right in our bad conscience/inferiority complex/whatever you want to call it, so we invariably flinch and ask ourselves the old "Why do they hate us so much?" Oh, boo hoo.
Peepelonia
20-04-2006, 12:44
http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,411791,00.html
http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,355598,00.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4923906.stm


I mean...why? Why would you do that?

The British and the Germans are so similar (http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,411937,00.html), they could live in the same country. There is virtually nothing that is not the same in both countries.

Yet, the British media in particular likes to have a go, whenever possible. It's utterly ridiculous.

And that quite beside the point of making such a difference between a male and a female head of state, the fact that a bloody sixty-year old woman will not look like a model, and that her body shape is of no consequence to her job.


Please don't confuse the media with what the public actualy think. Easpecily publications like the Sun. We all know(and if we don't then some of us best get learning) that the media twist and turn and misinform and misrepresent for whatever their devices are. Only today in The Sun I read a story about how Germany have asked the FA to ask England fans to sing football songs in the German language so as not to upset the hosts of the upcoming World cup.

Do you believe this story to be true? I certianly don't and see throguh to the cynical attempt at manipulation that it is. So once again, talk to English people before ever beliving in what our press has to say.
Harlesburg
20-04-2006, 12:44
You forgot bosche..

Hold me darling, tightly.
Anarchic Conceptions
20-04-2006, 12:46
Been there, done that... I took on the role of the UN... tried to keep the peace but mostly stood by and watched the carnage.

Well there is a de facto cease fire. Provided the kitchen is kept clean the communication is kept to a minimum.
Yootopia
20-04-2006, 12:46
And the German book of war victories is non-existant. So why do French get such a bad rap?

Other than killing off the Roman Empire, taking control of Britain, taking Alcase-Lorraine in the thirty years' war and several victories previous to that by Ferdinand. That and doing a fair bit of the fighting for the Fascists in Spain and winning there.

The Holy Roman empire also had a vast record of victories.
Bakamongue
20-04-2006, 12:47
Anyway...the press is shit...they publish anything to get ratings and a story...I truley doubt this "ill feeling of Germans" goes anywhere beyond the liberal media.Sorry, I just had to comment... There's is a US/UK difference, as you wouldn't call The Sun "liberal" over here in Rightpondia.


UK: Left Wing ('old style' Labour party) ... Centre Ground (Liberal) ... Right Wing (Conservatives)

(Of course, Liberals were considered relatively left-wing before the rise of the Labour party, and now 'New Labour' is somewhat to the right of the centre-ground, with various Socialist parties arising to fill in the vacuum and some Conservatives are possibly even to the Left of the Labour Party on some issues, and if you go back a couple of centuries you had Tories and Whigs, who I think were respectively left/right of the political spectrum of the day, but I'm fairly sure that complicates matters and depends on your interpretation of the spectrum and personal viewpoint... ;)
Peepelonia
20-04-2006, 12:50
Well, it said "Where the bloody hell are ya?!"

Can't have that...:rolleyes:


Naaa the original said 'Where the fuck are you' So they changed it. The ad is still on TV. We Brits may be reserved(yeah right) but we're not that anal!
Paulite Saxony
20-04-2006, 12:51
Yah, absent the propensity to build death factories and instigate mass slaughter, you can barely tell the two apart. (Oh, and the egowanking about economic miracles).

The british have a sense of humour however.


Are the "death factories" you are referring to the concentration camps? Them old things we Brits invented?
Kievan-Prussia
20-04-2006, 12:51
Other than killing off the Roman Empire, taking control of Britain, taking Alcase-Lorraine in the thirty years' war and several victories previous to that by Ferdinand. That and doing a fair bit of the fighting for the Fascists in Spain and winning there.

The Holy Roman empire also had a vast record of victories.

Those countries weren't Germany. Since 1871, the only thing close to victories that Germany can claim are superficial wins over the Boxers and during the Balkans conflict.
Yootopia
20-04-2006, 12:52
Are the "death factories" you are referring to the concentration camps? Them old things we Brits invented?

I have a feeling that we weren't the first in the world, ever, to do that.
Marech
20-04-2006, 12:52
Apart from the Napoleonic Wars, of course. And world war one. And some of the crusades. And taking over Britain, actually.

They lost the Napoleonic wars... the Crusades were an international effort, as was World War I and the Normans weren't French... Normandy was ceeded to the Vikings to stop them persistantly burning Paris.

The Normans took over 'England'... not even the Romans took over 'Britain'.

Kudos to the French for eventually taking back 3/4 of France from English domination during the Hundred Years War though. Though it was a young lady from Lorraine (which is debatedly Germany?) who provided the political spark for the final victory.

Dredging through my historical knowledge... I can recall the French beating Spain in the 17th Century...

I'm really not against France, it was an example... so in fairness, let's use our combined knowledge to create a list of French victories (as an individual nation, not as an alliance) so far we have;

The Hundred Years War (Taking back your own country should count I think).
War with Spain 1643?
Peepelonia
20-04-2006, 12:53
All you have to do is admit to being German but reassure the Brit that you are not, in any way, French.


Hah hahah now that's funny.

Seriously though if somebody take the piss out of a stereotype to induce homour then is this insulting? Or is comedy really and truley the very last bastion of free speach?
Yootopia
20-04-2006, 12:53
Those countries weren't Germany. Since 1871, the only thing close to victories that Germany can claim are superficial wins over the Boxers and during the Balkans conflict.

Oh sorry! Prussia!

Which is the largest part of what is now Germany, and only rarely fought with the other German states, so feck orf.
Paulite Saxony
20-04-2006, 12:53
Other than killing off the Roman Empire, taking control of Britain, taking Alcase-Lorraine in the thirty years' war and several victories previous to that by Ferdinand. That and doing a fair bit of the fighting for the Fascists in Spain and winning there.

The Holy Roman empire also had a vast record of victories.


In addition, it's difficult to argue that the Germans lost WW1 in the actual field of battle, it was more a political defeat through economic hardship in German cities, they fairly trounced the allies in the majority of pitched battles.

And one can hardly deem the Blitzkreig years as a military failure....
Southern Sovereignty
20-04-2006, 12:54
So, would you say that the British actually like the Germans? Or that they could actually hear the word "Germany" without falling into romantic recollections of former glory and the demonisation of the other side that comes with it?

Why can I not tell someone that I'm German without getting involved in discussions about the war?

Same reason I can't tell someone here I'm from the South without getting involved in discussions, err, hateful slanderings about our big War. Seems the winners love to rub the losers' noses in their crap.
Kievan-Prussia
20-04-2006, 12:54
They lost the Napoleonic wars

And Napoleon was Corsican. >_>
Paulite Saxony
20-04-2006, 12:55
I have a feeling that we weren't the first in the world, ever, to do that.

Then you'd be wrong, we did it in the Boer War.
Bakamongue
20-04-2006, 12:56
The Saxons where from Germany. The Anglo's and the Jutes where from Denmark. And the there were Frisians who came from what is now the Netherlands.And the Normans (who took up and conveyed the old French language to UK shores via 1066 and all that) were Norse in origin.

(And "France" is "West Franks" where "East Franks" is essentially Germany...
Everything was much complicated in the couple of millenia (give or take) since that time, not-the-least the intervention of the Romans... ;))
Peepelonia
20-04-2006, 12:56
The Saxons where from Germany. The Anglo's and the Jutes where from Denmark. And the there were Frisians who came from what is now the Netherlands.

Yeah and lets not forget the indigius race the Picts, or the Scots who come from Ireland, nor the Vikings, nor the Romans, shit we are and have always been a great big melting pot.
Yootopia
20-04-2006, 12:56
They lost the Napoleonic wars... the Crusades were an international effort, as was World War I and the Normans weren't French... Normandy was ceeded to the Vikings to stop them persistantly burning Paris.

The Normans took over 'England'... not even the Romans took over 'Britain'.

Kudos to the French for eventually taking back 3/4 of France from English domination during the Hundred Years War though. Though it was a young lady from Lorraine (which is debatedly Germany?) who provided the political spark for the final victory.

Dredging through my historical knowledge... I can recall the French beating Spain in the 17th Century...

I'm really not against France, it was an example... so in fairness, let's use our combined knowledge to create a list of French victories (as an individual nation, not as an alliance) so far we have;

The Hundred Years War (Taking back your own country should count I think).
War with Spain 1643?

They only really lost the Napoleonic Wars because Napoleon was removed from power for a bit, and the alliances against France gained strength. Although yeah, they lost it, I suppose.

And Alcase-Lorraine had been French right up until the Thirty-Years war. Try pronouncing it in a French and then German accent, and see which sounds better.
Kievan-Prussia
20-04-2006, 12:56
Oh sorry! Prussia!

Which is the largest part of what is now Germany, and only rarely fought with the other German states, so feck orf.

Dude, Prussia is mostly POLAND now. Geographically, the largest part of Germany are the Southerners.
The State of It
20-04-2006, 12:57
Which was of course sixty years ago, and is no longer relevant to anything.

Just because you were not around to smell the stench of the dying and the dead at Concentration Camps like my Grandad was, does not make it irrelevant.

Just because you can not see the victims of WW2 laying in the streets and the fields, does not make it irrelevant.

He who forgets the past, is condemmned to repeat it.

Just because you were not there when the bombings of London (where my Nan an Great Uncle lived) and Dresden occured in all it's horror, does not make it irrelevant.

The Sun is the scum and you should not take it as the measure to know British attitudes by.

For those who do hate Germany, or detest Germany, well it's the two world wars factor, stories of German actions in both wars (WW2 in particular) passed down to generation to generation and taught in schools.

Two World Wars remember. That's a major factor, no matter how long ago, and it goes with the British rivallry with the French, who we had many a war with.

I don't hate Germans, I hate Nazis, and any nationality can be a Nazi.
Kievan-Prussia
20-04-2006, 12:57
And Alcase-Lorraine had been French right up until the Thirty-Years war. Try pronouncing it in a French and then German accent, and see which sounds better.

Alsace... Elsatz...

Although Lorraine sounds better in German... Lothringen, sounds like something out of LOTR.
Peepelonia
20-04-2006, 13:00
I'm sorry, but to me it just seems like the British simply cannot put the war behind them.
There are plenty of things to make fun of that are cool - but when the reason is that there was once a war, the humour always acquires a bitter after taste.

Thats just plain wrong that is. Go on prove it I dare ya!?! Again don't make the mistake of looking at our media and thinking it is in anyway reflective of our society
Yootopia
20-04-2006, 13:00
Dude, Prussia is mostly POLAND now. Geographically, the largest part of Germany are the Southerners.

I really meant "what German was at the start of World War II", which is seemingly the only German history most people care about.
Hola Hoop
20-04-2006, 13:01
:) Which was of course sixty years ago, and is no longer relevant to anything.:sniper: :mp5: :gundge: :mp5: :sniper: :mp5:

The Holocaust was sixty years ago also, is that no longer relevant to anything? :eek: :eek: :eek:

The birth of Jesus (alledgedly) 2006 years ago, relevant or not?

Just because its been and gone doesnt make it any less relevant

Oh and by the way 5 - 1, 5 - 1 or Funf - ein, Funf - ein

HA HA
Kievan-Prussia
20-04-2006, 13:02
I really meant "what German was at the start of World War II", which is seemingly the only German history most people care about.

>_>
Marech
20-04-2006, 13:03
I have a feeling that we weren't the first in the world, ever, to do that.

Nope... Britain pioneered the idea of penning up thousands of people (mainly women and children) and letting them die of typhus, cholera and other diseases during the Boer War (1898-1902).

America is responsible for the Eugenics theories that the Nazis adopted as the reasoning behind their final solution.

Two little known but important facts.
Peepelonia
20-04-2006, 13:04
Says who?


I doubt that the Britons of those days were very Celtic after 400 years under Roman rule.
There was once a piece on Discovery. The Saxons forbid the men, the Celto-Romanics, to have children. And took the women for themselves. And a hundred years later the Celtic DNA was gone, or very weak, from England.


Hahahh yeah which is why we have such a high percentage of ginger hair ohh not to mention all the blond and blue eyes.
Peepelonia
20-04-2006, 13:05
Tabloids are the voices of the unwashed masses, aren't they?


Hahahhahahhhahhh ehehehehhe muuuwhahahah nene ahah Shit NO!
Kievan-Prussia
20-04-2006, 13:05
:) :sniper: :mp5: :gundge: :mp5: :sniper: :mp5:

The Holocaust was sixty years ago also, is that no longer relevant to anything? :eek: :eek: :eek:

The birth of Jesus (alledgedly) 2006 years ago, relevant or not?

Just because its been and gone doesnt make it any less relevant

Oh and by the way 5 - 1, 5 - 1 or Funf - ein, Funf - ein

HA HA

See what we mean when we say you have issues?

And, congratulations, you beat a weak German team. Who has more World Cups? 3 - 1! 3 - 1! Who's got more Euro Cups? 3 - 0! 3 - 0!
Paulite Saxony
20-04-2006, 13:06
:) :sniper: :mp5: :gundge: :mp5: :sniper: :mp5:

The Holocaust was sixty years ago also, is that no longer relevant to anything? :eek: :eek: :eek:

The birth of Jesus (alledgedly) 2006 years ago, relevant or not?

Just because its been and gone doesnt make it any less relevant

Oh and by the way 5 - 1, 5 - 1 or Funf - ein, Funf - ein

HA HA


When he said it was no longer relevant, I believe he was implying that it is wrong it should still tar British attitudes towards the Germans. Britains closest allies are the US, with whom we have had a war. New Zealand, India, the majority of the Commonwealth all experienced bloodshed at the hands of the British but it is not held against us today (by the majority of people at any rate)

And 5-1? They have won 3 world cups and 3 european championships...
Psychotic Mongooses
20-04-2006, 13:07
See what we mean when we say you have issues?

And, congratulations, you beat a weak German team. Who has more World Cups? 3 - 1! 3 - 1! Who's got more Euro Cups? 3 - 0! 3 - 0!

What's this 'we' shit?

You're Australian!
Yootopia
20-04-2006, 13:08
Nope... Britain pioneered the idea of penning up thousands of people (mainly women and children) and letting them die of typhus, cholera and other diseases during the Boer War (1898-1902).

America is responsible for the Eugenics theories that the Nazis adopted as the reasoning behind their final solution.

Two little known but important facts.

I'm quite sure that it happened before the Boer War.
Pashes
20-04-2006, 13:08
i find it VERY pleasing that someone else, other than me realises that the only english people / britons left are those in ireland and parts of scotland and wales.

England / the UK has always basically been a melting pot for all the nations that came across it. Vikings, Romans, Saxons, Normans etc.

English is classed as a Germanic language, however as has been stated by many people we have influences from many languages. latin, french, german, celtic and others.

England does love the rivalry, what sort of fun would the world cup be if it was just another tournament where we play a bit of football and get knocked out in the 3rd round and wait another 4 years for the next tournament.

Throw into the pot a close couple of friends who we dont like, France Germany and the match becomes more exciting because it isn't england playing germany, it is england playing against GERMANY OUR SUPPOSED ALLEDGED BITTER RIVALS THAT WE DONT BEAT TOO OFTEN THAT COOINCIDENTALY WE HAD A WAR WITH AND WE WON!

Throwing that into the pot makes it so much better. i find that type of mentality brings more tension and enjoyment / dissapointment into the game.

even if i play an online game against a friend with the prize of "last person to finish is a rotten egg" adds more enjoyment to the game than "ill race you to the post"

Its just a way to spice up our generally dull lives. Plus the fact that the brits do love taking the piss out of everyone. Thinking back to the picture of mohammed with a bomb for a turban, this caused many muslims to go way over the top, smash things up, burn flags and generally act like a bunch of 5 year old children who were told they could not have a lolly pop.

If the muslims had done the same to us, and drawn a tank as tony blairs face or something do you know what the brits would have done? we would not have gone round and smashed up any mosques or burned a few muslim flags or drawn on a quoran or something (well a couple of people may as they use any excuse for violence and stupidity), we would have photocopied the picture, scanned it, emailed it around the work place, set it as the back ground on our computers and laughed and joked about it for a week or so and that would be the last thing heard about it until the next "offensive" picture was drawn by someone of one of our government members who they did not like and we would have done the same.

Don't take it seriously, here in the uk we have totally open press where they can just about do anything they like provided it is not inflamatory (although they can add the word ALLEDGEDLY or PROBABLY at the end of their reports when they make a total lie and get away with anything.....probably ;))

When my american friends came over from yankee to england they were amazed at the page three news papers and said they did not have anything like this in yankee, and they realised how open our newspaper system was.

As for the sun, i do not buy it for the share listings or the overview of the economic climate projections for the next 10 years. i read it to hear about the man who got his penis stuck up his nose (with pictures) and the dwarf who was swollowed by a hippo when it yawned or the lady with 25 breasts as she lives near chynoble! Thats why people buy the sun, it has a reading age of 7 i think.

It just shows that most things that the brits do that people may see as offensive is just another section of our humour. Hell, we even laugh at ourselves...Eddy the eagle edwards anyone?

Also here is a picture of a german in west germany back in the 80s :headbang: and here is a picture of a british soldier back in the second world war! :sniper:

;)
Kievan-Prussia
20-04-2006, 13:09
What's this 'we' shit?

You're Australian!

So? I can still state that they have issues.
Paulite Saxony
20-04-2006, 13:09
I'm quite sure that it happened before the Boer War.


When? Where?
Marech
20-04-2006, 13:11
See what we mean when we say you have issues?

And, congratulations, you beat a weak German team. Who has more World Cups? 3 - 1! 3 - 1! Who's got more Euro Cups? 3 - 0! 3 - 0!

Of course we have issues... that's where the need to bad mouth every other country lies... we need to improve our self-image :D
The Foresters
20-04-2006, 13:11
http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,411791,00.html
http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,355598,00.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4923906.stm


I mean...why? Why would you do that?

The British and the Germans are so similar (http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,411937,00.html), they could live in the same country. There is virtually nothing that is not the same in both countries.

Yet, the British media in particular likes to have a go, whenever possible. It's utterly ridiculous.

And that quite beside the point of making such a difference between a male and a female head of state, the fact that a bloody sixty-year old woman will not look like a model, and that her body shape is of no consequence to her job.

I agree the British press are generally gits, and certainly love to stir up trouble. As to Germany I've always found it to be a really pleasant country and the people tend to be very friendly and helpful, certainly more helpful than the French. In fact prior to the Great War Germany was our traditional ally, we had close ties for century’s, and traditions such as Christmas trees, Easter branches and painted eggs are all German in origin.

Whilst this is so, it is however incorrect to say that we are so similar that we could live in the same country. I'm British and was born in Germany on a British Army camp, and I have spent about 8 or 9 years living in Germany at various times in my life, and whilst I do like the country and people, they are very definately different. There culture has some similarities with our own as you would expect given a certain shared heritage and proximity, but they are still very different in many areas, and I enjoy the differences; the world would be a very boring place if everyone was the same.

To be honest the closest nation to us in terms of similarity would probably be Eire which is slightly ironic.
Zolworld
20-04-2006, 13:13
Its not that we hate the Germans, we just enjoy poking fun at them, like with the americans, only the Germans have less to poke fun at so all weve really got is the world wars and that time we won the world cup. Germany may have a better health service, economy, government etc, but we have that one thing on them: they suck at world wars. If we stop taking the piss out of them about it, it would be like admitting that germany is better in every way. and that would suck.
Yootopia
20-04-2006, 13:13
When? Where?

The Middle Ages. You could probably call surrounding a castle with armed people whilst firing sick cows into it so that everyone died of illnesses an early version of a concentration camp.

Wiki is a rubbish information source ;)
Kievan-Prussia
20-04-2006, 13:17
The Middle Ages. You could probably call surrounding a castle with armed people whilst firing sick cows into it so that everyone died of illnesses an early version of a concentration camp.

Wiki is a rubbish information source ;)

That's a siege. They were indiscriminate. And they always have the option of surrender.
Peepelonia
20-04-2006, 13:18
I mean, as a German you're already somewhat weary whereever you travel, always kind of ready to explain or apologize and hoping not to offend just because of your nationality. And that's in countries where not every second word in tabloid headlines about Germany is blitz or krauts or reich or whatever. So yeah, I guess that just pretty much hits us right in our bad conscience/inferiority complex/whatever you want to call it, so we invariably flinch and ask ourselves the old "Why do they hate us so much?" Oh, boo hoo.

Now that is a very fair point and one which I guess us Brits do not think of at all. It does seem like a double edged sword then, for as has already been said your typical Brit wold try his hardest not to mention the war in front of a german, for fear of the German thinking it rude.

So the question remains, can we mention the war? Or if we do will it all go Falwty Towers on us?
Kievan-Prussia
20-04-2006, 13:20
So the question remains, can we mention the war? Or if we do will it all go Falwty Towers on us?

I, for one (even though I'm not a German citizen, but an ethnic German), would be somewhat insulted if you brought up the war just because of my nationality.
Marech
20-04-2006, 13:21
I'm quite sure that it happened before the Boer War.

Possibly... but not widely known.

Even the French 'occupation' of Spain during the Napoleonic Wars didn't engender the same treatment of the civilians and that was a guerrilla war. There were local atrocities for sure, but nothing like that.

We Brits must hang our heads in shame for that one. Good idea but very poorly thought through. Afrikaaner nationalists still use this as propaganda against Britain today.
Margolotta
20-04-2006, 13:21
In a way it is the British sense of humour. It is not just people like Fr Merkel that are under attack... no-one is safe from the critisism and abuse of the 'Boulevardzeitung' of england. Even when our Margaret Thatcher was in power here she constantly faced this kind of article in the newspapers.

As a Germanophile this does annoy me too, but, coming from great britain I realise that the press is not singling out the germans, but rather, just including them.

Our grand European Nation :rolleyes:
Heavenly Sex
20-04-2006, 13:24
http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,411791,00.html
Monday's edition of Britain's best-selling tabloid The Sun published a photo showing the partly exposed buttocks of the German leader under the headline "I'm Big in the Bumdestag", in a play on words referring to Germany's lower house of parliament, the Bundestag. Another photo published on the Sun's website showed Merkel from the front in a black bathing suit putting on a dressing gown.
Merkel is such a braindead retard, so I surely would have loved to see that! :D Cheers for the British on that one! http://assets.jolt.co.uk/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif

About the other things, you really shouldn't take it that serious, it's just as Mr. Torry says:
Torry: They keep getting hauled back out by the press in both countries. The British media is fairly irreverent -- with everyone. Germany's not the only target. Our Royal family and the British government are also victims, as are the French and the Americans. One needs to differentiate between headlines, which can be made more inflammatory to sell newspapers, and the actual content.
JujenDanq
20-04-2006, 13:27
Part of the British sense of humour is directed at Germany, there are always jokes about the Reich in our newspapers and on our comedy tv shows :)

Us Brits have a unique sense of humour. The two wars are obviously a big part in this, Britain along with many other countries suffered at the hands of the fatherland, and we like to remind you of this. 60 years is not very long ago, and some of things that Germany did are unforgivable, thats why we ridcule you. Like when England beat Germany 5 - 1 at football :D

Plus we will kick your ass at the world cup. Its a love hate relationship. If you had won the war you could make jokes about us, because you didn't, you immediately lost the privilage to do that :)
Kievan-Prussia
20-04-2006, 13:29
60 years is not very long ago, and some of things that Germany did are unforgivable, thats why we ridcule you.

Fuck you.
Marech
20-04-2006, 13:30
I, for one (even though I'm not a German citizen, but an ethnic German), would be somewhat insulted if you brought up the war just because of my nationality.

The problem is... when you speak to strangers you look for common ground to establish a dialogue, our common ground is two world wars and a world cup...

I've heard this several times "They're German, don't mention the war".

But be fair... you do steal all the sun loungers when you are on holiday... I've lost count of the number of towels with German labels I've droppped in the pool :D
Kievan-Prussia
20-04-2006, 13:32
The problem is... when you speak to strangers you look for common ground to establish a dialogue, our common ground is two world wars and a world cup...

I've heard this several times "They're German, don't mention the war".

But be fair... you do steal all the sun loungers when you are on holiday... I've lost count of the number of towels with German labels I've droppped in the pool :D

That sounds more like a Northerner thing >_>
Psychotic Mongooses
20-04-2006, 13:32
Part of the British sense of humour is directed at Germany, there are always jokes about the Reich in our newspapers and on our comedy tv shows :)

Us Brits have a unique sense of humour. The two wars are obviously a big part in this, Britain along with many other countries suffered at the hands of the fatherland, and we like to remind you of this. 60 years is not very long ago, and some of things that Germany did are unforgivable, thats why we ridcule you. Like when England beat Germany 5 - 1 at football :D

Plus we will kick your ass at the world cup. Its a love hate relationship. If you had won the war you could make jokes about us, because you didn't, you immediately lost the privilage to do that :)


.....that and the whole jealousy thing.

You know, this only started during the Thatcher era. It is much more of a wider anti European sentiment. Jealousy stems from the fact the the German economy is so strong and bounced back extremely well after being utterly destroyed in the war. Britain wasn't hit as hard yet found herself being outstripped by someone who, by all rights, should have been decades behind it.
Limachinia
20-04-2006, 13:33
All i see in your posts is an attempt to justify a certain kind of nationalism . Although most of you think rationally , it is a fact that nationalism reappears in the worst forms throughout history ,depending on the times . Why the brits take the piss all the time ? it is indeed because of the press . The common british born in the 1940's will have heard for 50 years of his life how great his country, how britain is fantastic , how the Uk is just fan-fucking-tastic . Because they win the war , because they are with the USA , because because because : Sadly , although i agree with some of the brits that posted here , saying that the brits just like to make fun of everybody , having no mercy for anyone , it is a fact that a certain type of anti-german racism has appeared in the younger generation of uneducated working-class young people .It is also clear that the media as we know it in Britain is awful , helping to propagate those ideas , advocating a certain kind of agenda, usually very right-wing , very nationalist . Whether this should count , this should be seen as offensive by the Germans , i don't think so . See, why feel awful when someone calls you a F**ing nazi ?It's their own ignorance that makes them say that .

I also am a student in a british university , although i am from a continental european country , my accent is tainted with the years spent here , people tell me i sound cornish . interestingly , this has brought up some very interesting reaction . the country is a germanic country in part , a lot of people have german names (my last name is very very german ).
Now , to my point ; Reactions depend on the level of education . I can assure you my friends at university do not seem to care where i am from , they make fun of me from time to time because i do have a tendency to utter insults in french , but they accept me as i am , even if my grandfather was in the wehrmacht . The reaction has differed when confronted with what we call here "chavs" who are perfect examples of this uneducated proletariat i mentioned above . If you sound german , they ask you wether you are swedish or something like that .

Intolerance requires a cure , that cure being simply, education
Whereyouthinkyougoing
20-04-2006, 13:33
Now that is a very fair point and one which I guess us Brits do not think of at all. It does seem like a double edged sword then, for as has already been said your typical Brit wold try his hardest not to mention the war in front of a german, for fear of the German thinking it rude.

So the question remains, can we mention the war? Or if we do will it all go Falwty Towers on us?
Well, it's just all pretty complicated. Like, I added the "Oh, boo hoo" in my post above, because as a German you better make sure not to make yourself out to be the victim - that doesn't fly very well with the rest of the world, and rightfully so.

But really, nothing wipes the smile off a German's face during, say, the coming world cup (which is really something everybody here looks forward to, even though nobody has high hopes for our own team) quite as efficiently as a well placed Hitler salute, or one of these (http://www.helmpje.nl/b_23.jpg) (by the Dutch, this time).

And because I kind of have to: Oh, boo hoo. :p
Yootopia
20-04-2006, 13:34
[QUOTE=JujenDanq]. 60 years is not very long ago, and some of things that Germany did are unforgivable, thats why we ridcule you. QUOTE]

Surprising as this may sound, Britain (and mostly England) has done some horrible things in its time.

And it wasn't "good" Allies and "evil" Germans. The Germans had conscription, a lot of people who fought for Germany weren't Nazis and didn't really want to fight.

The Brits also often killed prisoners whereas the Nazis sometimes didn't.
Kievan-Prussia
20-04-2006, 13:35
.....that and the whole jealousy thing.

You know, this only started during the Thatcher era. It is much more of a wider anti European sentiment. Jealousy stems from the fact the the German economy is so strong and bounced back extremely well after being utterly destroyed in the war. Britain wasn't hit as hard yet found herself being outstripped by someone who, by all rights, should have been decades behind it.

I think it's absolutely hilarious that of the countries involved in the war, the most involved losers have the second and third highest economies, and the most involved winners now cease to exist.
Limachinia
20-04-2006, 13:37
.....that and the whole jealousy thing.

You know, this only started during the Thatcher era. It is much more of a wider anti European sentiment. Jealousy stems from the fact the the German economy is so strong and bounced back extremely well after being utterly destroyed in the war. Britain wasn't hit as hard yet found herself being outstripped by someone who, by all rights, should have been decades behind it.

i rather doubt the capacity of a basic brit who fights to make a living to care about the german economy . It's just something transmitted by the media . Until 2000 , the french republic did not consider the algerian war a war , and did not admit the fact that its army had tortured and massacred civilians in masses , just because the governement had done its best to cover it up or stop people from talking about it .
Same in England in a way , avoiding to attack the tabloids on their racist rants is just a way to reinforce nationalism which makes it possible for people to swallow bigger and always bigger pills which it would not swallow in normal situation .

COnsider the thatcher times , just as she was losing popularity, just as people started not liking her , she decides to go to war for "strategic sheep purposes"
The Foresters
20-04-2006, 13:40
Biologically speaking, the English are in fact GERMAN. They are GERMANS speaking a language with foreign influence. But they are in fact from Germany, invading England in 500 AD, and becoming the dominant figure on the isles. Why oh why would they do this, I have no idea. They basically are making fun of themselves. To be honest(I'm German) but British and German women aren't exactly the hottest around.

Actually this is incorrect firstly they initially began invading in 449AD with the landings of Hengist and Horsa, secondly whilst they did invade it took several centurys for them to eventually conquor what we now understand as England. Whilst they did conquor England genetic, and historical evidence shows that whilst their culture became dominant they were actually still in the minority numerically. They intermingled with the native Britons far more so than say the Romans or Normans but they were still greatly outnumbered, as is shown in place names and DNA.

So essentially after a few generations even the full blooded natives were dressing and talking like their conquerers. Areas such as Cornwall, possibly because of its remote location (anyone who has tried holidaying in Cornwall will know how much of a royal pain it is to get there) has actually remained geneticly Celtic in the main. So yes we are culturly Germanic and most of us have Germanic DNA but we also have a huge amount of Celtic DNA as well as a smattering of other odds and sods. Oh and lastly it was actually the Angles not the Saxons who became dominant and they were Danes hence the name England (derived from Angland).

P.S Women wise there are still some gems out there both German and English :D
Bakamongue
20-04-2006, 13:42
I doubt that the Britons of those days were very Celtic after 400 years under Roman rule.The Roman civilisation expanded by a rather interesting method.

Rather than shipping in huge numbers of its own population (let's say, for argument, from the greater part of what is now called Italy) it often 'Romanised' areas in economic and political ways much more than it encouraged migrations.

In fact, on the contiguous mainland of Europe, many's the area that was at one point just outside the recognised 'footprint' of the Empire, but had Roman traders in their markets, and by the time the army moved the 'frontier' over their small village they had been using Roman currency, started to adopt the Roman currency and customs... Yes, there were battles against resistant tribes, and obviously to get a foothold across the (now named, by us British at least) English Channel they needed an 'invasion force'. But even then, the Roman military was composed of trans-Empiric troops and there would have been vast numbers more 'acquired Romans' than 'native' ones.

But once the foothold was made, while the troops (reinforced as required) might have been advanced through the country to deal with the 'unwilling', only a small number of Administrators will have settled down on the island, the rest of the population Romanising to greater/lesser degrees (up to the current limits of Roman expansion, that is, Hadrian/Antonine walls or wherever...).

And then with the collapse of the Roman Empire and the lead-up to the Dark ages, most of the Roman influence disappered and even the Roman troops that ended up settling here will have been genetically swamped by the 'aquired Roman' genetics as whatever racial mixing occured.

Since then occured the nordic, germanic and Norman (originally nordic by way of germanic lands) immigrations and influences, and all that happened behind that. The proportion of male-only and family-style immigrations are probably up for a longer discussion. And there have been 'sub-invasion' immigrations to the UK and general mixing since.

And then, internally, regional variations will have been largely maintained up until the Industrial Revolution, where people were encouraged to travel to the rising industrial cities in search of work, thus developing various other mixes and blends in culture and descendence from previously more 'patchwork' layout across the land.
Pashes
20-04-2006, 13:45
i find it VERY pleasing that someone else, other than me realises that the only english people / britons left are those in ireland and parts of scotland and wales.

England / the UK has always basically been a melting pot for all the nations that came across it. Vikings, Romans, Saxons, Normans etc.

English is classed as a Germanic language, however as has been stated by many people we have influences from many languages. latin, french, german, celtic and others.

England does love the rivalry, what sort of fun would the world cup be if it was just another tournament where we play a bit of football and get knocked out in the 3rd round and wait another 4 years for the next tournament.

Throw into the pot a close couple of friends who we dont like, France Germany and the match becomes more exciting because it isn't england playing germany, it is england playing against GERMANY OUR SUPPOSED ALLEDGED BITTER RIVALS THAT WE DONT BEAT TOO OFTEN THAT COOINCIDENTALY WE HAD A WAR WITH AND WE WON!

Throwing that into the pot makes it so much better. i find that type of mentality brings more tension and enjoyment / dissapointment into the game.

even if i play an online game against a friend with the prize of "last person to finish is a rotten egg" adds more enjoyment to the game than "ill race you to the post"

Its just a way to spice up our generally dull lives. Plus the fact that the brits do love taking the piss out of everyone. Thinking back to the picture of mohammed with a bomb for a turban, this caused many muslims to go way over the top, smash things up, burn flags and generally act like a bunch of 5 year old children who were told they could not have a lolly pop.

If the muslims had done the same to us, and drawn a tank as tony blairs face or something do you know what the brits would have done? we would not have gone round and smashed up any mosques or burned a few muslim flags or drawn on a quoran or something (well a couple of people may as they use any excuse for violence and stupidity), we would have photocopied the picture, scanned it, emailed it around the work place, set it as the back ground on our computers and laughed and joked about it for a week or so and that would be the last thing heard about it until the next "offensive" picture was drawn by someone of one of our government members who they did not like and we would have done the same.

Don't take it seriously, here in the uk we have totally open press where they can just about do anything they like provided it is not inflamatory (although they can add the word ALLEDGEDLY or PROBABLY at the end of their reports when they make a total lie and get away with anything.....probably ;))

When my american friends came over from yankee to england they were amazed at the page three news papers and said they did not have anything like this in yankee, and they realised how open our newspaper system was.

As for the sun, i do not buy it for the share listings or the overview of the economic climate projections for the next 10 years. i read it to hear about the man who got his penis stuck up his nose (with pictures) and the dwarf who was swollowed by a hippo when it yawned or the lady with 25 breasts as she lives near chynoble! Thats why people buy the sun, it has a reading age of 7 i think.

It just shows that most things that the brits do that people may see as offensive is just another section of our humour. Hell, we even laugh at ourselves...Eddy the eagle edwards anyone?

Also here is a picture of a german in west germany back in the 80s :headbang: and here is a picture of a british soldier back in the second world war! :sniper:

;)
Marech
20-04-2006, 13:58
All i see in your posts is an attempt to justify a certain kind of nationalism ..... it is a fact that a certain type of anti-german racism has appeared in the younger generation of uneducated working-class young people. It is also clear that the media as we know it in Britain is awful , helping to propagate those ideas , advocating a certain kind of agenda, usually very right-wing , very nationalist....

...The reaction has differed when confronted with what we call here "chavs" who are perfect examples of this uneducated proletariat i mentioned above.

Intolerance requires a cure , that cure being simply, education

Oddly enough these are the people who either revere Hitler and the Nazis, or who support the BNP, or both.

As for the 'Chavs' they are as you say ignorant and dislike anything or anyone who is different from them. Intelligence and common decency is something to be hated or feared.

The Sun is their newspaper of choice and largely reflects the views of its readership.

In Britain we do highlight difference, whether it is 'townies' versus 'woolybacks', North versus South, English versus Welsh/Irish/Scottish, British versus anyone... take your pick, we even have an agenda against ginger-haired people..

I might put this down to insecurity on a national scale as this country has gone from world super power in the 19th century to a small industrially unstable little group of islands in the 21st... but I'm not really sure.

Even the common sense option of integrating with the rest of Europe has met rabid resistance, despite most of our remaining industry being owned by foreign companies.

We perpetute a fantasy that we can stand alone just like in the war and all will be ok... we don't need anyone else... but the facts don't tend to support this so we ignore them.
Grave_n_idle
20-04-2006, 14:01
http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,411791,00.html
http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,355598,00.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4923906.stm


I mean...why? Why would you do that?

The British and the Germans are so similar (http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,411937,00.html), they could live in the same country. There is virtually nothing that is not the same in both countries.

Yet, the British media in particular likes to have a go, whenever possible. It's utterly ridiculous.

And that quite beside the point of making such a difference between a male and a female head of state, the fact that a bloody sixty-year old woman will not look like a model, and that her body shape is of no consequence to her job.

I don't hate Germans.

The more traditional figure of animosity is actually the French, but I don't hate them either.

What you are seeing, is a part of English society - specifically, the part that buys a 'news' paper, specifically based on the number of naked breasts it is likely to contain.... not a reliable measure of an entire society.

In my experience, at least, England is becoming ever more cosmopolitan and global. Which is good, because the whole Empire thing left us pretty socially insular.
Bakamongue
20-04-2006, 14:02
Are the "death factories" you are referring to the concentration camps? Them old things we Brits invented?To be precise, us British did invent "Concentration Camps" (IIRC, it was to hold the famlies of the Boer fighters to discourage them from attacking us) but they weren't designed as 'Extermination Camps'[1].

I refuse to tar the German people with conceiving the purpose assigned to Auschwitz, etc, however. It was clearly the application by the Nazi high-command of the modern concept of centralisation/mass-production to the age-old wish (by various famously violent and bloodthirsty individuals throughout history) to purge the signs of "Them" from a population of "Us". The leaders of "Us" in Britain weren't (well, not as a majority) going that extra step, but it still wasn't exactly the brightest hour for the Empire. (Nor the most blood-soaked, of course.)


[1] It seems that sheer incompetance by us British and attacks on the supply trains we were sending to them to feed those we had interned were the main causes for the misery in them. Not a glorious part of our history, but
Marech
20-04-2006, 14:10
As for the sun, i do not buy it for the share listings or the overview of the economic climate projections for the next 10 years. i read it to hear about the man who got his penis stuck up his nose (with pictures) and the dwarf who was swollowed by a hippo when it yawned or the lady with 25 breasts as she lives near chynoble! Thats why people buy the sun, it has a reading age of 7 i think.

;)


Despite popular opinion the reason why the Sun has such a big circulation is that it is designed to be read by 7 year olds. They purposely use the simplest language and terms to get their message across. If you can read, you can understand the Sun.

Don't be fooled by the content, they do have an agenda and they do have some very good journalists... the paper may be crap but millions read and more importantly understand the message. The Sun's opinion becomes their opinion because it tells them so.
The Foresters
20-04-2006, 14:13
Nope... Britain pioneered the idea of penning up thousands of people (mainly women and children) and letting them die of typhus, cholera and other diseases during the Boer War (1898-1902).

America is responsible for the Eugenics theories that the Nazis adopted as the reasoning behind their final solution.

Two little known but important facts.

Slightly misleading, whilst yes the British did come up with concentration camps they were never intended to be what the Nazi party turned them into. The name essentially says it all, Concentration, they were origonally intended to concentrate the boer population into controlled areas during the war.

The problem faced by the British army at the time was they were facing very effective hit and run type tactics from the boers and the boer soldiers were essentially melting away after engagements being sheltered and supported by their familys or freinds on the widely dispersed farmsteads dotted around the countryside. The solution was to effectivly round up these people and concentrate them in one place and ensure they didn't aid the Boer troops. Unfortunatly due to some unscrupulous buisnessman, the places became disease ridden and many people died. This is due to some buisnessman years earlier buying up military stores after the Crimean War including blankets.

Huge numbers of soldiers had died during this war due to disease and the blankets in particular should have been burnt but this gentleman managed to buy them dirt cheap and years later sold them on to the british authorities running the camps. He did so knowing that many were unwashed and had come from the hospital wards. The result was a series of epidemics made worse by the number of people in such close proximtiy, spreading the diseases out of control with the British authorities struggiling to contain them. So yes they became terrible places and certainly the Nazi camps and death camps were even more so but the British certainly never intended them to be what disease etc. made them in the Boer war.
Kosirgistan
20-04-2006, 14:22
I am not going to read through the whole thread because its annoying - so maybe this has come up before:

The Reason why Brits like to have a go at Fritz or Gunther is quite simple:

They won the war! - but were financially fucked.

So as a winner they had to watch Germany thrive economically after the war. Germany became one of the biggest Economies in the world while the Brits were struggeling.

So there have to be some sentiments and its also fun to mock the Hunns(!

Cheers!
Marech
20-04-2006, 14:28
Slightly misleading, whilst yes the British did come up with concentration camps they were never intended to be what the Nazi party turned them into. The name essentially says it all, Concentration, they were origonally intended to concentrate the boer population into controlled areas during the war.

The problem faced by the British army at the time was they were facing very effective hit and run type tactics from the boers and the boer soldiers were essentially melting away after engagements being sheltered and supported by their familys or freinds on the widely dispersed farmsteads dotted around the countryside. The solution was to effectivly round up these people and concentrate them in one place and ensure they didn't aid the Boer troops. Unfortunatly due to some unscrupulous buisnessman, the places became disease ridden and many people died. This is due to some buisnessman years earlier buying up military stores after the Crimean War including blankets.

Huge numbers of soldiers had died during this war due to disease and the blankets in particular should have been burnt but this gentleman managed to buy them dirt cheap and years later sold them on to the british authorities running the camps. He did so knowing that many were unwashed and had come from the hospital wards. The result was a series of epidemics made worse by the number of people in such close proximtiy, spreading the diseases out of control with the British authorities struggiling to contain them. So yes they became terrible places and certainly the Nazi camps and death camps were even more so but the British certainly never intended them to be what disease etc. made them in the Boer war.

I'm dubious about the blanket story but essentially I have no arguement with this, but it is not the intention here but the results that are the problem. The idea was to prevent the families and supporters of the Boers from providing sustenance and support and to allow the creation of what are known as 'free-fire zones' today. I don't believe they were set up for the purpose of killing Boer non-combatants, but that was the result.

It can be argued that the Nazis set up the concentration camps as work camps for political dissidents and others as had the Russians, which was the case. The american county farm system and chain gangs, though not politically based would be seen as similar. The eventual use and effect was not the original intention. They did provide convenient camouflage for the final solution... which again were the results not the original intent. Later 'Labour Camps' were of course purely designed for the extermination of their inhabitants but had acquired the veneer of 'business as usual' and nothing out of the ordinary by this time.
Peepelonia
20-04-2006, 14:35
[QUOTE=JujenDanq]. 60 years is not very long ago, and some of things that Germany did are unforgivable, thats why we ridcule you. QUOTE]

Surprising as this may sound, Britain (and mostly England) has done some horrible things in its time.

And it wasn't "good" Allies and "evil" Germans. The Germans had conscription, a lot of people who fought for Germany weren't Nazis and didn't really want to fight.

The Brits also often killed prisoners whereas the Nazis sometimes didn't.


This whole thing about you done nasty things in the past, ohhh but so have you is just going backward. Let me be clear about this every country has it's glory and it's shame. Now for the most part what I mean by this is in every countries history. But this is history, the past. So do we all hate us brits for our once empire, or the germans for their once riech, then surly then we must also hate the Macedonians, and the Greeks, Egyptions, and the Mongols, and I guess the Persians also not forgetting them Vikings, ohhh and early rome was Geman was it not? Blaaah blaaah blaaah, let it drop. If you want to hate somebody then hate them for what they are as a person, not for the accident of nationality. I mean in reality I guess we should all be railing against Africa, I mean isn't that where we all come from anyway, if it wasn't for them danged Homosapiens leaving Africa and wipeing out all of the Neanderthals(according to current beliefe) in Europe then we'd all have thicker skulls and protruding eyebrows, damn them!
Hogsweatia
20-04-2006, 14:42
Because the Brit media are fucking morons. Quite plain and simple. You ask someone on the street, Germany or France? Its quite obvious what the answer would be.
Peepelonia
20-04-2006, 14:48
Despite popular opinion the reason why the Sun has such a big circulation is that it is designed to be read by 7 year olds. They purposely use the simplest language and terms to get their message across. If you can read, you can understand the Sun.

Don't be fooled by the content, they do have an agenda and they do have some very good journalists... the paper may be crap but millions read and more importantly understand the message. The Sun's opinion becomes their opinion because it tells them so.

I don't agree with this, I 'take' the Sun for two reasons, one being evident on page 3 the other being Hagar. I don't for a second belive what I read in it, nor do I actualy know anybody 5 years above the age of school leavers that do.

I have read a lot about the Sun being the paper of Chavs, but really a Chav dispite the modern day kidnapping of the word(instigated by the Sun BTW) is really a 'youngun' This has always traditionaly been the meaning of the word as in "Yeah when I was a chav", and to tell the truth it is still the way I use the word. when we look at the avarage age of what a modern day chav is, it is a teenager, and normaly a teenager that is not a memeber of any subculture but instead is swayed by peer presure, listens to pop music, and hold no oppinions but that of the herd.

This has always been the case with our youth, in the 60's it was mods, in the 80's it was townies, and now they are called chavs. Time will go on, chavs will grow up and get a mind of their own(or not) and the new youth both the sheep and the disenfrancied will still be at each others throats.

Mankind does war, and violence very well, and I see no signs of that changing, hehe at least not in my life time. Soooooo for the sake of international understanding, peace in our time, and to stop my fingers being blunted by too much typeing, I suggest that we all learn to take it with a pinch of salt and say thats just the way it is, I can let it get to me or not as I choose.
Forensic Mysteries
20-04-2006, 14:52
Here are my opinions on the topics discussed:

The English are not the same as the Germans. More than a thousand years, the separate evolution of our languages and numerous invasions have come between us. However, we do have a few things in common.

The Sun is a paper, not a newspaper. Once every thousand years it provides a laugh, the rest of the time it is brightly coloured toilet paper.

Not everyone in England hates Germans. I've not met a German that I've disliked, and I've met quite a few.

There are plenty of attractive women in Germany.

Perhaps one day...
England :fluffle: Germany
Peepelonia
20-04-2006, 15:01
'There are plenty of attractive women in Germany'

Yeah like Doro Pesch oooohhhhh Doro! You make me feel 15 again *sigh*
Laerod
20-04-2006, 15:06
http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,411791,00.html
http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,355598,00.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4923906.stm


I mean...why? Why would you do that?

The British and the Germans are so similar (http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,411937,00.html), they could live in the same country. There is virtually nothing that is not the same in both countries.

Yet, the British media in particular likes to have a go, whenever possible. It's utterly ridiculous.

And that quite beside the point of making such a difference between a male and a female head of state, the fact that a bloody sixty-year old woman will not look like a model, and that her body shape is of no consequence to her job.Thank goodness Angela Merkel is only head of government and not head of state, then. ;)
Anarchic Conceptions
20-04-2006, 15:45
Thank goodness Angela Merkel is only head of government and not head of state, then. ;)

Well the Queen is the head of state in Britain ;)

So Neu Leonstein was [accidently?] correct :p
Laerod
20-04-2006, 15:53
Well the Queen is the head of state in Britain ;)

So Neu Leonstein was [accidently?] correct :pIf I recall correctly, the Queen will be 80 soon, and not sixty, so NL was talking about Angie.
Good Lifes
20-04-2006, 16:41
For the same reasons the Jews and Arabs hate each other, Koreans and Japanese.....they're too close to the same. Just like siblings fight.
Cataduanes
20-04-2006, 17:28
Here are my opinions on the topics discussed:

The English are not the same as the Germans. More than a thousand years, the separate evolution of our languages and numerous invasions have come between us. However, we do have a few things in common.

The Sun is a paper, not a newspaper. Once every thousand years it provides a laugh, the rest of the time it is brightly coloured toilet paper.

Not everyone in England hates Germans. (snip)


Look i am born and raised in London to a german father, hell i even have a german name and i can tell you growing up in the UK and having a german name meant that i have had to scrap more than once, to try and say the british do not have an obsession of some sort with germany is plain wrong, when my father arrived in the UK he quickly realized that he was better off claiming to be swiss, caused less fights in the pub.

The sun is indeed a rag but it is not the only tabloid to regularly slag off germans, hell i was at the last Wembley match when Deutschland beat England 1-0 and some of the chants had to be heard to be believed!

Incidently the SOuthern English are largely descended from Saxons and Jutes who where Germanic, ok they may not be the same but the average Essex boy has alot more in common with a northern german than say a german and a dane.
Grave_n_idle
20-04-2006, 17:32
'There are plenty of attractive women in Germany'

Yeah like Doro Pesch oooohhhhh Doro! You make me feel 15 again *sigh*

If only she still looked like she did when I was 15...
Margolotta
20-04-2006, 18:05
Because the Brit media are fucking morons. Quite plain and simple.


Im sorry - have you read 'Bild' lately? the whole Axel Springer-Verlag is not much better than our british tabloids. how many times do I see the Boulevardzeitungen take the piss out of George Bush etc. Well, so do the Brits... but thats not the point. You can't poke fun at other people's head of states and get upset because Frau Merkel has been photographed with her saggy bottom!

Its called free speech guys - the thing that Germany is also meant to have. Even Madonna and other famous people get their saggy bits splashed across the newspapers. Merkel should celebrate her fame!
Cataduanes
20-04-2006, 18:08
Im sorry - have you read 'Bild' lately? the whole Axel Springer-Verlag is not much better than our british tabloids. how many times do I see the Boulevardzeitungen take the piss out of George Bush etc. Well, so do the Brits... but thats not the point. You can't poke fun at other people's head of states and get upset because Frau Merkel has been photographed with her saggy bottom!

Its called free speech guys - the thing that Germany is also meant to have. Even Madonna and other famous people get their saggy bits splashed across the newspapers. Merkel should celebrate her fame!

True but the tabloids are not the only section in the UK that gives out anti german crap, try working into a suburban pub in london and tell them your german, you will not last 5 minutes.
Margolotta
20-04-2006, 18:12
walk into a london pub and tell them your Welsh/Irish...

you won't last 5 minutes...

Its not just the Germans that get all the abuse... they just tend to get more uptight about it. Anne Robinson went on that tv programme Room101 and publicly said that she would put the whole of Wales in it cos she hates the Welsh.

there will always be rivalry, between the french and the english, the welsh and the english, the irish and the english, the germans and the english.... to be honest there isnt a nation in the world that the english dont like taking the piss out of
Cataduanes
20-04-2006, 18:15
walk into a london pub and tell them your Welsh/Irish...

you won't last 5 minutes...

Its not just the Germans that get all the abuse... they just tend to get more uptight about it. Anne Robinson went on that tv programme Room101 and publicly said that she would put the whole of Wales in it cos she hates the Welsh.

there will always be rivalry, between the french and the english, the welsh and the english, the irish and the english, the germans and the english.... to be honest there isnt a nation in the world that the english dont like taking the piss out of

Too true on the first and second point, i do find it funny as i have links to both the UK and Germany...that the germans see brits as 'ubercool', hell most of the english football songs have replaced german ones, not to mention the fact that London is seen a s the 'uber-metropolis'.
The Campbell dynasty
20-04-2006, 18:17
ive got no problem with germans.
ConscribedComradeship
20-04-2006, 18:18
Stop generalising. I don't hate Germans.
Zilam
20-04-2006, 18:20
I always thought that UK and Germany would be great allies, with their general "hatred" of the french.:p
Margolotta
20-04-2006, 18:36
thats the point... there are so many brits that don't have any hatred for the Germans...

I've just signed up to do 4 years of uni doing german... hell - i've signed up to spend at least 2 years over there... i love the german way of life :p
Peepelonia
20-04-2006, 18:36
If only she still looked like she did when I was 15...


Aaahhhh yeah, but still Doro Doro Doro.:fluffle:
Mariehamn
20-04-2006, 18:45
I mean...why? Why would you do that?
You most certainly realize that the audience your addressing does not exist - as the British population as a whole do not "hate Germans" - and you're making sweeping generalizations for some reason I'm not fully aware of.
Cataduanes
20-04-2006, 18:55
thats the point... there are so many brits that don't have any hatred for the Germans...

I've just signed up to do 4 years of uni doing german... hell - i've signed up to spend at least 2 years over there... i love the german way of life :p

thats pretty cool, i have met many brits that either lived in germany or have travelled there and enjoyed it, but i have met far far more that are nearly rabid in there anti-german feelings (admittedly in the suburban hellpits of the south east!)
ConscribedComradeship
20-04-2006, 18:56
You most certainly realize that the audience your addressing does not exist - as the British population as a whole do not "hate Germans" - and you're making sweeping generalizations for some reason I'm not fully aware of.

All Germans make sweeping generalisations. :p
Cataduanes
20-04-2006, 18:57
All Germans make sweeping generalisations. :p

Naturlich :D
ConscribedComradeship
20-04-2006, 19:00
Naturlich :D
Shouldn't there be an umlaut/diaeresis on the u? ü
Margolotta
20-04-2006, 19:00
haha more sweeping generalisations :p

basically i think the message is, ignore the working class idiots and chavs... where theres class theres people like us who love everybody

(we can afford the drugs... wheeeee!! love and kisses and pink fluffly clouds :p)
ConscribedComradeship
20-04-2006, 19:01
haha more sweeping generalisations :p

I hope you realise, and I hate it when people say this, "I was being ironic."
Cape Isles
20-04-2006, 19:02
Just out of curiosity is there a word in German that means 'Fluffy'?
(Been watching Blackadder Goes Forth)
Margolotta
20-04-2006, 19:06
Shouldn't there be an umlaut/diaeresis on the u? ü

do u know how hard it is to find the ü on most computers!!!! grrrr its annoying
ConscribedComradeship
20-04-2006, 19:07
do u know how hard it is to find the ü on most computers!!!! grrrr its annoying

Alt+129
Kellarly
20-04-2006, 19:07
thats the point... there are so many brits that don't have any hatred for the Germans...

I've just signed up to do 4 years of uni doing german... hell - i've signed up to spend at least 2 years over there... i love the german way of life :p

Hehe, another one's got the bug :)

I was there for last year, am currently in the final year of my 4 year course of which German is 1/3 and I have spent 1/7 of my life there :D
Cataduanes
20-04-2006, 19:08
Shouldn't there be an umlaut/diaeresis on the u? ü

Sorry yes it does, so ''Natürlich;; mind you i could have also written ''Natuerlich''
Kellarly
20-04-2006, 19:09
Just out of curiosity is there a word in German that means 'Fluffy'?
(Been watching Blackadder Goes Forth)


The German for fluffy (http://dict.leo.org/ende?lp=ende&lang=de&searchLoc=0&cmpType=relaxed&sectHdr=on&spellToler=on&search=fluffy&relink=on)


Oh and as a note to Margolotta, use http://dict.leo.org/ if you don't already, its one of the best dictionaries around.
Mariehamn
20-04-2006, 19:09
I hope you realise, and I hate it when people say this, "I was being ironic."
*points to siggy*
Terror Incognitia
20-04-2006, 19:15
Whoo! One of those that goes round...and round...and round.

I was going to say something, then I changed my mind, because I realised 1) It's probably been said already. Repeatedly.
And 2) It might start off another cycle of the whole thing.

So, RIP thread.

Oh yeah - I don't hate Germans. :fluffle:
010010
20-04-2006, 19:21
If you take the Sun as representative of England you're gonna form some pretty weird views. Yes we do take the piss out of other countries a lot, but a lot of countries do that. We don't have some peculiar hatred for Germans or anyone else and to insult them would be frowned upon by practically everyone and thought of as racist. It's true that in pubs and schools you'll find a lot of dumb jokes about other countries but that's not exactly the place where you're going to find the most sensitive of people.

To be honest i don't think we have a go more than anyone else except that WW1 and WW2 were more recent than most.

Edit: I come in after the RIP? Great.
Novaya Zemlaya
20-04-2006, 19:23
I mean...why? Why would you do that?

It's not a sign of tension or anything, its just that friendly slagging between nations. Britain and Germany are historically rivals, that's all.
It's like here in Ireland, a sporting competition becomes a lot more important if it's England we're playing against.
Margolotta
20-04-2006, 19:24
Just out of curiosity is there a word in German that means 'Fluffy'?
(Been watching Blackadder Goes Forth)


hmmm i spose you could use flaumig, or flockig or fusselig... which mean fluffy but as for fluffLy then i don't know - you'd have to ask a native that one...
Kellarly
20-04-2006, 19:25
hmmm i spose you could use flaumig, or flockig or fusselig... which mean fluffy but as for fluffLy then i don't know - you'd have to ask a native that one...

Not to mention flauschig.
Margolotta
20-04-2006, 19:32
The German for fluffy (http://dict.leo.org/ende?lp=ende&lang=de&searchLoc=0&cmpType=relaxed&sectHdr=on&spellToler=on&search=fluffy&relink=on)


Oh and as a note to Margolotta, use http://dict.leo.org/ if you don't already, its one of the best dictionaries around.



but no fluffLy!!!

oh and flauschig tends to mean more wooly or fleecy
Intangelon
20-04-2006, 19:33
Well, I'd start with World Wars One and Two and add the V-1 and V-2 vengeance weapons at the end of the latter war -- and then look for anything else.
Kellarly
20-04-2006, 19:38
but no fluffLy!!!

oh and flauschig tends to mean more wooly or fleecy

True, but when comparing someone to a sheep (i.e. jokes about Wales) it really is useful :D
Terror Incognitia
20-04-2006, 19:41
Welsh jokes are priceless. Especially when you live in the West Country - you need something to show there's a difference.
Intangelon
20-04-2006, 19:42
Really? The best selling english language daily newspaper in the world is a shame to the rest of the press?
Yes.

You're using best-selling as a point of legitimacy? What planet are you on?
Whereyouthinkyougoing
20-04-2006, 19:42
but no fluffLy!!!

oh and flauschig tends to mean more wooly or fleecy
God, it's so like me to only jump into the debate when things get fluffy... :p (well, at least I already made two more serious posts, so there).

Okay, so:

- nobody ever says flockig unless you're talking about the clumps in milk that has gone sour...

- fusselig would be fuzzy

- fluffy could be several things, depending on what exactly you mean, really:
° flauschig (like a very soft mohair sweater or a cuddly stuffed animal)
° kuschelig (cuddly)
° weich (soft)
° fluffig (heh, not sure that one's in the dictionary, but I know many people who use it - kind of describes what a "fluffy pillow" would be like - soft and fluffed up with air)

- as for fluffly - I have no idea what that even means :p
Terror Incognitia
20-04-2006, 19:44
It goes to show German is inferior to English, it doesn't have a word for fluffy.

Anyone who takes that sentence /\ seriously deserves to be shot....
Kellarly
20-04-2006, 19:44
Welsh jokes are priceless. Especially when you live in the West Country - you need something to show there's a difference.

Don't worry, there are plenty of jokes saved for the West country too...

However, the best jokes too tell many Germans (and I say this from experience, but only with regards to those I have met...I'm not gonna lump a whole country in the same basket) are ones with a hint of sarcasm. I know a few with my sense of humour (all northerners strangely), but when I seriously convinced half my co-workers that we had special tyres made for cars in Britain to deal with all the rain that we have...sarcasm is rather priceless.
Kellarly
20-04-2006, 19:46
° fluffig (heh, not sure that one's in the dictionary, but I know many people who use it - kind of describes what a "fluffy pillow" would be like - soft and fluffed up with air)

Brilliant!!

Still not going in my exam paper though...
Terror Incognitia
20-04-2006, 19:47
Go on, please share...
I genuinely can't remember hearing a West Country joke. Not even about the Wurzels.
Whereyouthinkyougoing
20-04-2006, 19:51
It goes to show German is inferior to English, it doesn't have a word for fluffy.

Anyone who takes that sentence /\ seriously deserves to be shot....You didn't pay attention, did you? I gave you four words for fluffy right there. Tsk, tsk, tsk.


but when I seriously convinced half my co-workers that we had special tyres made for cars in Britain to deal with all the rain that we have...sarcasm is rather priceless. I'd totally believe that. Our stereotypical Englishman is always pictured with an umbrella hanging off his arm. Plus I do remember that priceless thread PM made about "Oooh, look, a snowflake! :eek:". Are you trying to tell me it's not always gray and wet over there? :p
Kellarly
20-04-2006, 19:55
Go on, please share...
I genuinely can't remember hearing a West Country joke. Not even about the Wurzels.

Well given it's the country side they're mostly about...erm...how to put this politely...the chronic shortage of variation in the genepool in small rural communities...
Terror Incognitia
20-04-2006, 19:55
Four words? It's only one concept - fluffiness. That was my point. Not that I had a serious point to start with *wanders off mumbling*

We occasionally see the Sun, in the few minutes before a total Eclipse where you can almost believe the sky will be clear, before the clouds come back over just in time for the exciting bit. :D
Kellarly
20-04-2006, 19:56
You didn't pay attention, did you? I gave you four words for fluffy right there. Tsk, tsk, tsk.


I'd totally believe that. Our stereotypical Englishman is always pictured with an umbrella hanging off his arm. Plus I do remember that priceless thread PM made about "Oooh, look, a snowflake! :eek:". Are you trying to tell me it's not always gray and wet over there? :p

See? Blue sky!!!! Notice that the picture file is called StoneRocks1. ITS FUCKING STONE HENGE YOU DOSEY YANK, NOT A PILE OF ROCKS!


http://www.cs.indiana.edu/~tloos/Britain/StoneRocks1.jpg
Terror Incognitia
20-04-2006, 19:57
Oh, ok. We tell those about Essex and East Anglia. :D
Nordavia
20-04-2006, 19:58
Just in case anybody is in any doubt, it is not just the tabloid trash which publishes anti-German sentiments, but also supposedly liberal progressive quality papers such as The Grauniad which perpetuate prejudice against German people.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Columnists/Column/0,5673,556024,00.html

For a in-depth review of the expression of this genre of xenophobic bigotry, have a look at the article at

http://www.ex.ac.uk/german/abinitio/whygerm1.html
Kellarly
20-04-2006, 20:00
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Columnists/Column/0,5673,556024,00.html

To be fair it is Julie Burchill, who is a raving lunatic who obviously can't get over somethings in life.
Terror Incognitia
20-04-2006, 20:03
I thought of saying that, but couldnt find the words. Thanks Kellarly, did it for me :D
Intangelon
20-04-2006, 20:21
*extra ignored*
Its just a way to spice up our generally dull lives. Plus the fact that the brits do love taking the piss out of everyone. Thinking back to the picture of mohammed with a bomb for a turban, this caused many muslims to go way over the top, smash things up, burn flags and generally act like a bunch of 5 year old children who were told they could not have a lolly pop.
*extra ignored*

Uh...that cartoon was Danish.
Terror Incognitia
20-04-2006, 20:30
And, unless I'm very much mistaken, has not been printed in Britain.

(Yes, the Cardiff student paper. They pulled the edition, and I think the editor got the chop. And a student paper isn't exactly mainstream media.)
Intangelon
20-04-2006, 20:42
.....that and the whole jealousy thing.

You know, this only started during the Thatcher era. It is much more of a wider anti European sentiment. Jealousy stems from the fact the the German economy is so strong and bounced back extremely well after being utterly destroyed in the war. Britain wasn't hit as hard yet found herself being outstripped by someone who, by all rights, should have been decades behind it.

Only barely. England was still in bad shape five economically five years after the end of WWII.
Psychotic Mongooses
20-04-2006, 20:48
Only barely. England was still in bad shape five economically five years after the end of WWII.

Yes, but they 'won'.

That's a hard and bitter pill to swallow.
Whereyouthinkyougoing
20-04-2006, 20:50
For a in-depth review of the expression of this genre of xenophobic bigotry, have a look at the article at

http://www.ex.ac.uk/german/abinitio/whygerm1.html
That's a most excellent link. It actually describes exactly how I feel (not least the bit about being branded as a typical humourless German when you fail to find the humour in most of these things).
Ethane Prime
20-04-2006, 21:05
There is virtually nothing that is not the same in both countries.
I think you should check the difference between scones and Bratwurst. Germany has better food (but Austria even better, and Italy the best:D ).
New Burmesia
20-04-2006, 21:23
Of course we get along, our Monarchy is 100% pure, inbread German. Even Prince Harry was stupid enough to get to his know his forties-era roots. But then, we all know he's not the shinest jewel in the crown.

It has to be said, I had some of the best croissants in Germany, and that's good enough for me!
Neu Leonstein
21-04-2006, 01:13
Naaa the original said 'Where the fuck are you' So they changed it. The ad is still on TV. We Brits may be reserved(yeah right) but we're not that anal!
Yes you are. :(
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200603/s1591776.htm

Thank goodness Angela Merkel is only head of government and not head of state, then. ;)
http://www.thinkmac.co.uk/aquaicons/images/icons/reflective/Embarrassed.jpg

Just in case anybody is in any doubt, it is not just the tabloid trash which publishes anti-German sentiments, but also supposedly liberal progressive quality papers such as The Grauniad which perpetuate prejudice against German people.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Columnists/Column/0,5673,556024,00.html

For a in-depth review of the expression of this genre of xenophobic bigotry, have a look at the article at

http://www.ex.ac.uk/german/abinitio/whygerm1.html
THANK YOU!
So I'm not just making shit up.

As for the accusations of "generalisation"...my OPs are always designed to stimulate debate. I have found that the best way to do this is to post some quite outrageous theses, to then be attacked. From there the debate then moves to some serious revelations.
Crapping Dragon Fodder
21-04-2006, 02:03
It wasn't only the economy of Britain that was destroyed by the German bombings: it was also the national pride, and power. 50 years befor WWII, the British Empire was the world's greatest superpower, owning enough land to fill up Africa twice over, and having one of the most powerful navies ever to back it up. After WWII, though, the government and the people were both devastated, the economy was left in shambles, and most of the colonies, now believing the time was right, tore away from what remained of the empire, crumbling it in a matter of years. It's very understandable if the British hate the Germans.
The Magyar Peoples
21-04-2006, 02:06
The British hate the Germans because envy is a British trait.

P.S. I am British.
Neu Leonstein
21-04-2006, 02:15
I found two more links that are sorta relevant.

Firstly: Understanding German humour.
http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,411790,00.html

Secondly: The British foreign ministry is trying to get its fans to behave when they come to the World Cup (not gonna work, there is gonna be so much bad blood, I'm tellin ya).
http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,412170,00.html
Dorstfeld
21-04-2006, 10:23
Being German, having lived and worked in the UK since April 2004, I can confirm:

The British don't hate the Germans at all.

Only some tabloid hacks can't resist the urge to throw crap every now and then. When footie comes into it.

Dunkirk! Bleah, I mentioned the war.

The Empire would have collapsed anyway. It was ripe for the fall.
Marech
21-04-2006, 11:07
It wasn't only the economy of Britain that was destroyed by the German bombings: it was also the national pride, and power. 50 years befor WWII, the British Empire was the world's greatest superpower, owning enough land to fill up Africa twice over, and having one of the most powerful navies ever to back it up. After WWII, though, the government and the people were both devastated, the economy was left in shambles, and most of the colonies, now believing the time was right, tore away from what remained of the empire, crumbling it in a matter of years. It's very understandable if the British hate the Germans.

Britain's economy wasn't left in tatters by the bombing... it had relatively little effect. Britain's economic problems after the war stemmed from the US insisting on us repaying them for all the tanks, ships and planes we got on lend-lease... a debt we still paying. Rationing went on until 1952 (iirc) because of this and not U-Boat activity in the atlantic seven years after the war.

Germany on the other hand got financial aid to rebuild so that they would be in a fit state to help resist the supposed 'red' tidal wave that was due to sweep in from the east.... but never did.

Germany's success economically is partly due to American paranoia.... Britain's problems are mostly due to American business savvy...

I don't know where you get the idea that Britain was 'devastated'. Most of the bombing was concentrated on London, hardly the industrial heart of Britain... Coventry suffered a lot, but other cities only suffered minor damage and most of the industrial areas were able to carry on regardless.

As for the colonies... they were promised independance in return for their supporting 'Mother England' in the war, a promise that Britain tried to go back on after the war... hence Ghandi... the Mau Mau revolt etc.
Marech
21-04-2006, 11:26
Secondly: The British foreign ministry is trying to get its fans to behave when they come to the World Cup (not gonna work, there is gonna be so much bad blood, I'm tellin ya).
http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,412170,00.html

This is crap.... you will have the 'thug' minority from Britain and the majority of good natured fans from here also.

We will again have to contend with those happy & friendly germans who invite us into your bars and clubs... stand us round after round of drinks... stuff us with food... it's hell! Not to mention the 'violence' as the England fans try to sing louder than the German ones in the same bar.

We do suffer from culture shock too though.... the beer glasses are bigger... the beer is stronger... but hey you even have 'Becks Bier' just like home...

Ok... you have some neo-nazis and some disaffected former East-Germans who will kick off and cause trouble... but then they have teamed up with our thugs before.. their targets won't be each other in any case.

As for hitler salutes.... well as anywhere... you break local laws you get what you get.
Marech
21-04-2006, 11:46
and just to put to bed this 'we hate Germans' thing... here's a joke;

Q: Why are roads in France lined with trees?

A: So the German Army can march in the shade.
Psychotic Mongooses
21-04-2006, 11:48
and just to put to bed this 'we hate Germans' thing... here's a joke;

Q: Why are roads in France lined with trees?

A: So the German Army can march in the shade.

Shouldn't that be Belgium :D
Marech
21-04-2006, 11:51
Shouldn't that be Belgium :D
Nope... it wouldn't be 'British' to mock a country smaller than us :D
Great Denizistan
21-04-2006, 11:58
All you have to do is admit to being German but reassure the Brit that you are not, in any way, French.


Well, we the French are more than reassured that we are equally not British. :p
Hooray for boobs
21-04-2006, 11:59
you have it all wrong...... the British hate the french
Forensic Mysteries
21-04-2006, 14:59
Look i am born and raised in London to a german father, hell i even have a german name and i can tell you growing up in the UK and having a german name meant that i have had to scrap more than once, to try and say the british do not have an obsession of some sort with germany is plain wrong, when my father arrived in the UK he quickly realized that he was better off claiming to be swiss, caused less fights in the pub.

The sun is indeed a rag but it is not the only tabloid to regularly slag off germans, hell i was at the last Wembley match when Deutschland beat England 1-0 and some of the chants had to be heard to be believed!

Incidently the SOuthern English are largely descended from Saxons and Jutes who where Germanic, ok they may not be the same but the average Essex boy has alot more in common with a northern german than say a german and a dane.

I said "not everyone in England hates Germans", not "everyone in England loves Germans", and I did not talk about obsessions.

I didn't comment on other papers, or generalise about tabloids.

The Angles, the Saxons and the Jutes to be precise. Incidentally, are you aware of the Viking invasions of Britain, of Danelaw etc.? Also, since there's been a fair bit of movement between what is now Germany and Denmark since Anglo-saxon times, mainly due to the 42 mile border that they share, I think the comparison you made is a poor one.
Sarnia-Fez
21-04-2006, 15:14
two world wars and one world cup...do dah...do dah
1,2..1,2,3...1,2,3,4...5-1!!!

It's all in good fun as far as I'm concerned...and you're quite right we are similar, both are arrogant, both have or had designs of ruling the world, we both love football and lager...the only difference is ze germans are more open about their love of porn...bless em!!
Peepelonia
21-04-2006, 15:27
haha more sweeping generalisations :p

basically i think the message is, ignore the working class idiots and chavs... where theres class theres people like us who love everybody

(we can afford the drugs... wheeeee!! love and kisses and pink fluffly clouds :p)


Grrrrrr don't get me started on the whole class thing we have here. I'll rant and swear until eveybody ignores me, honest its happend before and it will happen again.;)

But just coz of the comment you made(Which I hope was in jest) the class system here is totaly shit. I hear that education is the key, and I truly belive it to be so. But I come from a working class background, and so a decent education was denied me, as it has been for countless others over the years, and as it continues to be for millions more even now.

However dispite this us working class idiots are responsible for all of the social services that your tax money brings you, binmen, nurses, porters, roadsweepers, bus and train drivers, policemen, all of the armed forces(thoses that do the work not thoses that lead) everything. It is now how it has always been the poor do the work, whilst the rich get the benifts, If it was not for the workingclasses there would be nor upperclassses.

Fair? No. Unfair enough to make me realy angry? Hell yes!
Dorstfeld
21-04-2006, 20:06
Since when are chavs working class?
What an insult to every working person!

Chavs DON'T WORK!! Chavs LEECH!

What concerns the "class" system, there is some similarity between Germany and Britain. In Germany, even today, at least 50% of high military and diplomats have a "von" in their name. Prussian nobility keeping up the family tradition. A circle impossible to get into other than by birth.

As far as I'm concerned, my grandfathers were a steel worker and a railroadman.