NationStates Jolt Archive

I heard a few days ago that if you are a registered member of the communist party (in America), you cannot join the United States military! I do say, good sir, WHAT THE FUCK?!?!?!?! I simply do not understand why you cannot be a communist AND fight for your country! Can anyone explain the logic behind this? I mean, sure, when the Russians, who were communists, were fighting us, it was logical. But now, I mean, hell. So what if we're on the line with North Korea? I want to fight for THIS country. MY country. What if I was drafted? Would they force me to change my political orientation? That's a big political freedom to throw out the window. What if we started fighting a capitalist country? Would it then be that we can no longer be capitalist? Can someone please explain to me WHY I cannot be a communist AND be in the military! Ugh, there goes my chances to be an USAF officer...

Why would any self-respecting communist want to fight for them anyway?

(good point about the draft though - I wonder if you could cop-out based on political affiliation...)

Did you happen to miss the Cold War?

I heard a few days ago that if you are a registered member of the communist party (in America), you cannot join the United States military! I do say, good sir, WHAT THE FUCK?!?!?!?! I simply do not understand why you cannot be a communist AND fight for your country! Can anyone explain the logic behind this? I mean, sure, when the Russians, who were communists, were fighting us, it was logical. But now, I mean, hell. So what if we're on the line with North Korea? I want to fight for THIS country. MY country. What if I was drafted? Would they force me to change my political orientation? That's a big political freedom to throw out the window. What if we started fighting a capitalist country? Would it then be that we can no longer be capitalist? Can someone please explain to me WHY I cannot be a communist AND be in the military! Ugh, there goes my chances to be an USAF officer...
They don't let admitted gays in the army. Do you think they'd let communists? Also, I thought you were a teenager...

Serously, there is nothing wrong with actual communism. Marxism-Lennism, on the other hand...

Well, if you're a communist, why would you want to fight for the capitalist imperialist bouregoise anyway?

You thought the US had freedom of opinion? Hah!

Then again, being communist is stupid.

America lets homosexuals in the army I don’t think they will be too fussed if you happen to be a communist and I doubt the army will bother checking up political leanings anyway as there far more interested in your ass (ohhh controversy!)

sources?

If the draft is introduced, I see mebership of the communist party going up :P

But yeah, that is a fairly stupid law. But being a non American pacifist, it doesnt affect me :)

America lets homosexuals in the army I don’t think they will be too fussed if you happen to be a communist and I doubt the army will bother checking up political leanings anyway as there far more interested in your ass (ohhh controversy!)

sources?
The "Don't ask, don't tell" law?

Why would any self-respecting communist want to fight for them anyway?

My thoughts exactly. Nationalism and communism don't mix.

Well, if you're a communist, why would you want to fight for the capitalist imperialist bouregoise anyway?
To change things from the inside. Many a former military general/colonel has been president. Becoming an Air Force officer will increase my political self-awareness. You know, people would know me better if I got up to colonel rank. So it would help my political career, hopefully getting more people to join the communist party, eventually helping the communist party become a political majority in America! And yes, I saw the Cold War. I may have seen it second-hand through the History Channel, but I saw it nonetheless. Thing is, the Cold War is OVER.

To change things from the inside. Many a former military general/colonel has been president. Becoming an Air Force officer will increase my political self-awareness. You know, people would know me better if I got up to colonel rank. So it would help my political career, hopefully getting more people to join the communist party, eventually helping the communist party become a political majority in America! And yes, I saw the Cold War. I may have seen it second-hand through the History Channel, but I saw it nonetheless. Thing is, the Cold War is OVER.
I like capitlism, but that's a very noble goal, comrade.

Also, I thought you were a teenager...
Yes but I was planning on both registering for the communist party AND joining the USAF officers academy so I can be a USAF officer. Guess I can't do both. I'm sticking with the former. I'd rather fight for my political beliefs than fight for my country.

Thing is, the Cold War is OVER.

America versus Communism isn't 'over'.

Yes but I was planning on both registering for the communist party AND joining the USAF officers academy so I can be a USAF officer. Guess I can't do both. I'm sticking with the former. I'd rather fight for my political beliefs than fight for my country.
You know, it isn't like you can't be a communist and be a member of the military. Just keep your communism secret, become a democrat, and join the army.

You know, it isn't like you can't be a communist and be a member of the military. Just keep your communism secret, become a democrat, and join the army.
Yes but that's like trying to keep the fact your gay a secret. You feel so proud to be a communist, you don't want to hide it. And besides, what good will getting more political awareness on me do if everyone thinks I'm a democrat? I don't want more democrats! I want more communists!

just another facet of the longstanding american anti-communism propoganda machine... personally, while i didn't know that, i'm hardly surprised.

Thing is, the Cold War is OVER.

Are you sure about that?

You know, it isn't like you can't be a communist and be a member of the military. Just keep your communism secret, become a democrat, and join the army.

Commie, Democrat, what's the difference?

Yes but that's like trying to keep the fact your gay a secret. You feel so proud to be a communist, you don't want to hide it. And besides, what good will getting more political awareness on me do if everyone thinks I'm a democrat? I don't want more democrats! I want more communists!
If you're not a member of the Communist Party, I think they have to let you in, even if you're a communist. Not sure, but I think so.

Are you sure about that?
Hell, with Russia it is. Maybe not with North Korea. But it is with Russia. Oh, and do you think my part Russian heritage influenced my political orientation?

Hell, with Russia it is. Maybe not with North Korea. But it is with Russia. Oh, and do you think my part Russian heritage influenced my political orientation?
China. You forgot China.

If you're not a member of the Communist Party, I think they have to let you in, even if you're a communist. Not sure, but I think so.
They don't HAVE to let you in. The military decides whether or not to let you in. They can make up some lame excuse like "Not physically fit enough", or "Defies direct orders".

China. You forgot China.
We and China don't exactly have our nuclear-tipped-knives at each others throats. It's that case with us and North Korea, though. And since the Cold War only applies to "Commies", Iran doesn't count.

They don't HAVE to let you in. The military decides whether or not to let you in. They can make up some lame excuse like "Not physically fit enough", or "Defies direct orders".
Than don't join the military. Go out and raise money for the poor. If you raise enough money, you'll be contacted by the media. Say you do it in the name of a Communist and Equal America. Become a political activist.

Well, that lowered my opinion of America.

Again.

Now, personally, Communism is fine. If practiced properly. But it isn't. This is humans we are talking about. Corruption. Thus, it has not and likely will not work.

We and China don't exactly have our nuclear-tipped-knives at each others throats. It's that case with us and North Korea, though. And since the Cold War only applies to "Commies", Iran doesn't count.
Actually, the definition of Cold War has nothing to do with communism. And we are much more at odds with China than NK. NK is smart. They won't use any missiles, and they're fine with us being capitlist. China, on the other hand, has a large economy and is getting a lot of national attention.

Than don't join the military. Go out and raise money for the poor. If you raise enough money, you'll be contacted by the media. Say you do it in the name of a Communist and Equal America. Become a political activist.
Ha! Good one. How am I supposed to raise money for the poor when I'll probably be handed my families 30k debt?

Now, personally, Communism is fine. If practiced properly. But it isn't. This is humans we are talking about. Corruption. Thus, it has not and likely will not work.

Because Capitalism totally avoids corruption.

I heard a few days ago that if you are a registered member of the communist party (in America), you cannot join the United States military! I do say, good sir, WHAT THE FUCK?!?!?!?! I simply do not understand why you cannot be a communist AND fight for your country! Can anyone explain the logic behind this? I mean, sure, when the Russians, who were communists, were fighting us, it was logical. But now, I mean, hell. So what if we're on the line with North Korea? I want to fight for THIS country. MY country. What if I was drafted? Would they force me to change my political orientation? That's a big political freedom to throw out the window. What if we started fighting a capitalist country? Would it then be that we can no longer be capitalist? Can someone please explain to me WHY I cannot be a communist AND be in the military! Ugh, there goes my chances to be an USAF officer...

Communism denies the validity of the nation state concept, so you cannot, logically be a communist and want to fight for your country.

If you want two things that are logically incompatable then you are not completely sane. That is a good reason to keep you out of the armed forces (or so they claim).

Because Capitalism totally avoids corruption.
hmm........ HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!! GOOD ONE! Capitalism isn't corrupt, that's just funny.

Ha! Good one. How am I supposed to raise money for the poor when I'll probably be handed my families 30k debt?
Common mis-conception. American law says when your parents die, their debt dies.

Because Capitalism totally avoids corruption.

If done right... yes. Same with Communism, and Socialism.

Actually, the definition of Cold War has nothing to do with communism. And we are much more at odds with China than NK. NK is smart. They won't use any missiles, and they're fine with us being capitlist. China, on the other hand, has a large economy and is getting a lot of national attention.
Ask any 99/100 Americans what the Cold War is, and they'll say, "The fight against those damn commies!". And dude, you'd be surpised how easy-going China is. Sure, they periodically invade a few neighbors, but they never screw with America.

Communism denies the validity of the nation state concept, so you cannot, logically be a communist and want to fight for your country.

If you want two things that are logically incompatable then you are not completely sane. That is a good reason to keep you out of the armed forces (or so they claim).
Yes, but, I will be fighting for my brothers. I will be fighting for my sisters. I will be fighting for my country. And a big thing in Communism is that everyone in the country is one big family. So fighting for your country is like fighting for your family, even if they may not believe in Communism.

Common mis-conception. American law says when your parents die, their debt dies.
Oh really?

*Takes out 9mm*

"HEY MOM! HOW MUCH IS YOUR LIFE INSURANCE POLICY WORTH?"

Oh really?

*Takes out 9mm*

"HEY MOM! HOW MUCH IS YOUR LIFE INSURANCE POLICY WORTH?"
I'm pretty sure. I remember seeing it on CNN or something.

Yes, but, I will be fighting for my brothers. I will be fighting for my sisters. I will be fighting for my country. And a big thing in Communism is that everyone in the country is one big family. So fighting for your country is like fighting for your family, even if they may not believe in Communism.

You seem to have missed something here.

Communist thinking and beliefs deny the existence of nations. You cannot fight for your country as a communist as you do not have a country as a communist. You can fight for your ideology, for your comrades etc etc but you cannot pledge an oath of allegiance to the USA as a communist.

Fighting for your comrades (and family is irrelevant, all people are your family) is not the same as fighting for your country in any way.

Communsim is a lot like a threesome, a great idea on paper but in reality it rarely works well.:)

You seem to have missed something here.

Communist thinking and beliefs deny the existence of nations. You cannot fight for your country as a communist as you do not have a country as a communist. You can fight for your ideology, for your comrades etc etc but you cannot pledge an oath of allegiance to the USA as a communist.

Fighting for your comrades (and family is irrelevant, all people are your family) is not the same as fighting for your country in any way.
Tell that to the Soviets.

do you know anything about the communist party of the united states?

I'd rather fight for my political beliefs than fight for my country.

In that case you really shouldn’t be a soldier and especially not a politician :p

also I hope you know the military is not some cultural revolutionary film and thinking so is not the attitude you would want to adopt if your expected to follow orders/ work as a team with people you may not agree with on any level at all

do you know anything about the communist party of the united states?
Tom Clancy does. :p

do you know anything about the communist party of the united states?

Good point, as well. The CPUSA is hardly what i'd call an ideal organisation.

Why would any self-respecting communist want to fight for them anyway?

While I hate communism, there are times, such as that post, in which I'm compelled to dissagree with the anti-communist party involved in the discussion.
I imagine that was true then there would be no need to bar communists from the military as they wouldn't want to join anyway. However, as someone who acknowledges being from the communist party wants to join the military then obviously the statement that no self-respecting communist would want to fight for America is clearly false. Of course wanting to fight for America isn't the only reason to join the military, although it is by far the largest and most common. There's also looking for respect, looking for adventure, or who knows, there might be other reasons as well.

As for why they would restrict communists, I have no clue. Based on what I've heard about the military structure and what I've heard about communist countries like Cuba you'd think they'd welcome it with open arms xp
But seriously, anti-military jokes aside, it sounds just as stupid and not letting gays or women in. It's just some mysterious restriction that has absolutely no logical reasoning to back it up but damned if they're going to pretend it's not a stupid idea.
Personally, if you ask me, I think anyone who wants to join the military and is up for it should be allowed in.

Tell that to the Soviets.

As has been said a gazillion times on NS, the Soviets were not communists. No communist society has ever existed!

I am not an american but I think Naliitr has a point. Why should he have to hide he´s a communist just because he want to be an officer? Everyone should have the right to have thei political opinion and STILL be able to fight for their country. In my country(Sweden) on the other hand, it is the commies who rejects the army most:P

PS: Communism is a beatuiful thought that would work IF everyone were the same, which of course is wrong

As has been said a gazillion times on NS, the Soviets were not communists. No communist society has ever existed!
I know that. I was just making a joke.

However, as someone who acknowledges being from the communist party wants to join the military then obviously the statement that no self-respecting communist would want to fight for America is clearly false.

Either that, or the person isn't actually a communist.

While I hate communism, there are times, such as that post, in which I'm compelled to find myself considering the anti-communist party involved in the discussion to not be thinking things through very clearly.
I imagine that was true then there would be no need to bar communists from the military as they wouldn't want to join anyway. However, as someone who acknowledges being from the communist party wants to join the military then obviously the statement that no self-respecting communist would want to fight for America is clearly false. Of course wanting to fight for America isn't the only reason to join the military, although it is by far the largest and most common. There's also looking for respect, looking for adventure, or who knows, there might be other reasons as well.

You have me wrong, I am an ardent communist. As someone else outlined elsewhere in this thread, communism is an internationalist ideology. It does not go hand-in-hand with wanting to fight for your country of residence and is in fact rather at odds with it. (there may be certain exceptions, such as when it becomes necessary to protect your fellow citizens, but generally, 99% of communists wouldn't contemplate it in peacetime)

As has been said a gazillion times on NS, the Soviets were not communists. No communist society has ever existed!

Arguably they have, but on too small a scale or crushed after too short a time to really prove themselves a viable alternative.

:sniper: The US Millitary does not consider political affiliation when joining. They are not allowed to discriminate or even ASK about your political views, or religious views. When it comes to gays, the "Don't ask don't tell" policy is in effect. If you are gay you must stay in the closet to join the military. :fluffle:

Now, once you are IN the military, and you do reveal that you are a communist, thats a different story. You will probably face some serious discrimination due to the fact that you are communist, and it might be seen as rather hypocritical. Why would a communist fight for a capitalist country?

There is nothing wrong with being a communist in America. You would be quite suprised at the number of members of the American Communist Party.

While I hate communism, there are times, such as that post, in which I'm compelled to dissagree with the anti-communist party involved in the discussion.
I imagine that was true then there would be no need to bar communists from the military as they wouldn't want to join anyway. However, as someone who acknowledges being from the communist party wants to join the military then obviously the statement that no self-respecting communist would want to fight for America is clearly false. Of course wanting to fight for America isn't the only reason to join the military, although it is by far the largest and most common. There's also looking for respect, looking for adventure, or who knows, there might be other reasons as well.

As for why they would restrict communists, I have no clue. Based on what I've heard about the military structure and what I've heard about communist countries like Cuba you'd think they'd welcome it with open arms xp
But seriously, anti-military jokes aside, it sounds just as stupid and not letting gays or women in. It's just some mysterious restriction that has absolutely no logical reasoning to back it up but damned if they're going to pretend it's not a stupid idea.
Personally, if you ask me, I think anyone who wants to join the military and is up for it should be allowed in.

Great post, I agree whole heartedly.

I can personally think of a few reasons a communist would want to be trained by the US military :sniper: ;)

I can personally think of a few reasons a communist would want to be trained by the US military :sniper: ;)

I can personally think of a few others i'd rather join, in that instance. :p

Tom Clancy does. :p

clancy might be easier to read than the cpusa literature.

I heard a few days ago that if you are a registered member of the communist party (in America), you cannot join the United States military! I do say, good sir, WHAT THE FUCK?!?!?!?! I simply do not understand why you cannot be a communist AND fight for your country! Can anyone explain the logic behind this? I mean, sure, when the Russians, who were communists, were fighting us, it was logical.
It's probably a hangover from that era when the CPUSA received an annual subsidy from the USSR government.

I heard a few days ago that if you are a registered member of the communist party (in America), you cannot join the United States military! I do say, good sir, WHAT THE FUCK?!?!?!?! I simply do not understand why you cannot be a communist AND fight for your country! Can anyone explain the logic behind this? I mean, sure, when the Russians, who were communists, were fighting us, it was logical. But now, I mean, hell. So what if we're on the line with North Korea? I want to fight for THIS country. MY country. What if I was drafted? Would they force me to change my political orientation? That's a big political freedom to throw out the window. What if we started fighting a capitalist country? Would it then be that we can no longer be capitalist? Can someone please explain to me WHY I cannot be a communist AND be in the military! Ugh, there goes my chances to be an USAF officer...

I didn't know the US even had a communist party. Good for them. Don't try to join the military anyway, at least until Bush's term expires.

To change things from the inside. Many a former military general/colonel has been president. Becoming an Air Force officer will increase my political self-awareness. You know, people would know me better if I got up to colonel rank. So it would help my political career, hopefully getting more people to join the communist party, eventually helping the communist party become a political majority in America! And yes, I saw the Cold War. I may have seen it second-hand through the History Channel, but I saw it nonetheless. Thing is, the Cold War is OVER.
This is beyond unrealistic. The US is culturally tied to capitalism.

Freidrich Engels noted in 1890 that communism would be impossible in the USA due to it lacking a feudal past, and being bourgoise-minded throughout.

i guess it depends on what it means for you to be a communist.

for some its wishing for an ideal society that they know can never exist

for some its working with communist ideals within the political framework of the country they live in to pass legislation that reflects those ideals (universal health care, higher minimum wage, etc)

for some it means working toward changing the economic system of their country (and for most countries that implies a change of government through revolution) to a state controlled economy run for the benefit of the masses.

defining just what being a communist means to you might help you in deciding if it is compatible with being an officer in the US military.

just another facet of the longstanding american anti-communism propoganda machine... personally, while i didn't know that, i'm hardly surprised.
It's not just the propaganda. The US is culturally, very capitalist. The idea that free markets are necessary for free people is very deeply ingrained.

Commie, Democrat, what's the difference?
*chuckle*

It's probably a hangover from that era when the CPUSA received an annual subsidy from the USSR government.
and followed their dictates.

I would never join the US military and would never join the CPUSA, so despite my political leanings, this rule, if it exists, is unlikely to ever affect me.

That said, it is clearly ridiculous, and should be eliminated. If members of the Constitution Party can join the military, members of a worthless and Orwellian Stalinist party should also be allowed to kill and die for the US bourgeoisie.

and followed their dictates.
One pretty much follows the other.

Do not confuse communism with the regime in former USSR and the current regimes in North Korea and the one in China. USSR was an example of Stalinism-Leninist thinking...very authoritarian in nature. North Korea has similar characteristics - just as Lenin and Stalin was embroiled in, there is a personality cult surrounding the 'great leader' Kim (and his son).

Marx said that communism is not something that you force (a la Lenin), rather it is what we will end up with AFTER capitalism has run its course. The revolution takes place without planning for it.

Nationalism is a disease of the mind, an artificial construct of (primarily) men wanting to exclude those they consider unworthy from the creation of dignified existance. It is the fertile ground on which those who speak movingly, passionately and elegantly can plant seeds of hate and exclusion - Hitler, Tito, Milosevic, etc. Such seeds dont grow in non-nationalist soil, only in those who value the artificial and profoundly masculine construct of 'the nation' above the reality of 'human species'.

Do not confuse communism with the regime in former USSR and the current regimes in North Korea and the one in China. USSR was an example of Stalinism-Leninist thinking...very authoritarian in nature. North Korea has similar characteristics - just as Lenin and Stalin was embroiled in, there is a personality cult surrounding the 'great leader' Kim (and his son).

The CPUSA supported all of those regimes. They are a crowd of propagandists and apologists, and masters at doublethink.

One pretty much follows the other.
yes it does. i was just spelling it out for those who are too young to know that.

Another reason not to be a communist.

To change things from the inside. Many a former military general/colonel has been president. Becoming an Air Force officer will increase my political self-awareness. You know, people would know me better if I got up to colonel rank. So it would help my political career, hopefully getting more people to join the communist party, eventually helping the communist party become a political majority in America!

Then that's perhaps why they don't want you to join the military. Because commies like you will join just to gain political power and pursue your Marxist agenda at the cost of America!

Considering how big a step communism would be for any nation, wouldn't it be better to let "nationalist communists" achieve communism in countries one by one, and THEN agree on some sort of one-world policy?

makes more sense than being the only communist country around and trying to force everybody else to think like you... *cough*

I didn't know the US even had a communist party. Good for them. Don't try to join the military anyway, at least until Bush's term expires.

Have you never heard of John Reed?

He was in the group that started (pretty much) the American Communist Party, as well as writing an excellent account of the October Revolution (the book's called "Ten Days That Shook The World), which has a foreword by Lenin.

He is also the only American to be buried in the Kremlin Wall Necropolis at the Red Square.

It's well worth a read, even if you're not a communist.

The CPUSA supported all of those regimes. They are a crowd of propagandists and apologists, and masters at doublethink.


Yes, unfortunately I sense you are right here. It makes it all the more harder for people who are genuinely vying for change to the oppresive and unsustainable world system we have today, if even the opposition are as bad (or worse) than the status quo. Better the devil you know than the Devil you dont.

However a closer more nuanced analysis of why the CPUSA supported those regimes may paint a more complex picture (beyond the commies supporting commies idea). Politics is a strange beast - the 'free' country of USA widely supported oppressive dictatorships across the world during the cold war to support its interests..and perhaps the CPUSA was playing politics in the same way.

I heard a few days ago that if you are a registered member of the communist party (in America), you cannot join the United States military! I do say, good sir, WHAT THE FUCK?!?!?!?! I simply do not understand why you cannot be a communist AND fight for your country! Can anyone explain the logic behind this? I mean, sure, when the Russians, who were communists, were fighting us, it was logical. But now, I mean, hell. So what if we're on the line with North Korea? I want to fight for THIS country. MY country. What if I was drafted? Would they force me to change my political orientation? That's a big political freedom to throw out the window. What if we started fighting a capitalist country? Would it then be that we can no longer be capitalist? Can someone please explain to me WHY I cannot be a communist AND be in the military! Ugh, there goes my chances to be an USAF officer...

You haven't actually read either Das Kapital or The Communist Manifesto have you?

Seriously? I'm definitely registering as a Communist.

Well, that's if it'll void my chances of getting drafted, should that problem arise again.

Being a red member is not bad in my view. Just they are a lsot cause thats all, cuz nobody it's gonna accept the comunist rise with the capitalism who controls everyone.

i wonder (honestly) if it has something to do with a perceived threat along the lines of this:

Communist soldier becomes officer
Communist officer becomes a general
Communist general attempts military coup(s) in an attempt to turn the USA into a communist state.

Could that be part of the reason?

Then that's perhaps why they don't want you to join the military. Because commies like you will join just to gain political power and pursue your Marxist agenda at the cost of America!
cost of America? is that a pun for the incredible debt being racked up by the current government? perhaps you meant the american ideal being threatened by marxism? there's no worries of the original american ideal being threatened, it's long gone.

And? What's wrong with being Nazi?

Give me a break...

cost of America? is that a pun for the incredible debt being racked up by the current government? perhaps you meant the american ideal being threatened by marxism? there's no worries of the original american ideal being threatened, it's long gone.

which original ideal.... the Protestant work ethic?

Nope, alive and well, and shared by most (if not all) of us.

hehe

And? What's wrong with being Nazi?

Give me a break...

the whole racism thing

*unless you're just talking about fascism, not really nazism.

the whole racism thing

*unless you're just talking about fascism, not really nazism.
Or Fascism even.

Then again, Stalinist Communism was homophobic. So I wouldn't put racism beyond it.

Communism can be bad and good. It just matters how you use it though. People in power have been taking advantages of it and it hasn't been used correctly in the world.

Ha! Good one. How am I supposed to raise money for the poor when I'll probably be handed my families 30k debt?

So that's why people are so far left these days. Everyone is living on debt.

Comon people, clean out your debt and live a good one. If you are a teenager and your parents are in debt, jump on their ass about it.

Credit cards/Loans = Death

*joins Communist Party*

WTF? The point of being a communist is that your loyalty is to your class and not your nation! Who gives a shit if they won't let us in the army? We'll build our own army- with blackjack! and hookers! In fact, forget the army bit!

So that's why people are so far left these days. Everyone is living on debt.

Comon people, clean out your debt and live a good one. If you are a teenager and your parents are in debt, jump on their ass about it.

Credit cards/Loans = Death

Actually, as a nation, every man, woman, and child in the United States is somewhere on the order of $28,000 in debt. How does this work? America is slightly under $8,400,000,000,000 in debt. There are slightly less than 300,000,000 people in the United States. $8,400,000,000,000 / 300,000,000 = $28,000 per person.

Thank you, drive through.

EDIT: Added "in the United States"

WTF? The point of being a communist is that your loyalty is to your class and not your nation! Who gives a shit if they won't let us in the army? We'll build our own army- with blackjack! and hookers! In fact, forget the army bit!
It is here that your Trotskyism is glowing.

The last I checked, the Army doesn't allow mentally impaired people into their ranks. And since you have to be mentally impaired to believe in a F+*+*+ up system like communism which cost in less then a century over a full told 100million lives and still counting, I must say problem solved.


PS: If some whackheads ever turn the US into a commie state, that will be the last straw, Bush is just barely bearable, commies in the White House and my reaction will be :upyours: I am emigrating to a new country away from the commie filth.

Aww, ain't that adorable.

Yeah...seriously, there is such hatred against commies. People in one of my classes called me a "traitor" and said I should be deported when they found out I was communist. One of my teachers forced us to right anti-communist slogans the other day...I didnt, but still. Our image is so screwed up...communism is not a form of gov't, its an economic system with ties to the gov't. Also, NK and stuff arent communist...Russia was quasi-communist.

Communism, directly responsible for over 100 million deaths,......... enough said. And they won't even recognise there failure and cruelty, and try the apologist, that was not Communism...... just makes it more detestable.

Communism, directly responsible for over 100 million deaths,......... enough said. And they won't even recognise there failure and cruelty, and try the apologist, that was not Communism...... just makes it more detestable.

*Game show "you're wrong" noise*

WRONG!

The USSR was not Communist. On paper, Communism is, in effect, perfect. However, th USSR corrupted it.

However a closer more nuanced analysis of why the CPUSA supported those regimes may paint a more complex picture (beyond the commies supporting commies idea). Politics is a strange beast - the 'free' country of USA widely supported oppressive dictatorships across the world during the cold war to support its interests..and perhaps the CPUSA was playing politics in the same way.

If the CPUSA "plays politics" in a manner analogous to US foreign policy, I definitely don't want to support it.

I think better of them than that; they sincerely believed they were doing the right thing, they were just easily manipulated by the Soviets, and too blinded by their ideology to see it.

*Game show "you're wrong" noise*

WRONG!

The USSR was not Communist. On paper, Communism is, in effect, perfect. However, th USSR corrupted it.


don't make me crack up. That has to be the most ridicolous excuse. And Nazi Germany was not a dictatorship,..... Nazism is actually perfect but Hitler corrupted it. You know how childish and downright frugal your arguements seem.

don't make me crack up. That has to be the most ridicolous excuse. And Nazi Germany was not a dictatorship,..... Nazism is actually perfect but Hitler corrupted it. You know how childish and downright frugal your arguements seem.

If a Capitalist Party nationalized all the means of production, would the resulting economy be capitalist?

communism will NEVER WORK! especially in the US. you can give up right now (f'ing commie). do you realize that if you tried and partially succeeded in communizing the US the civil war we would have?

*turns on the news*
Reporter: "The polls are in! Joseph "Marx" Nikoliev, the first member of the US Communist Party to run for President will be just that!"
*goes out and buys a gun and plenty of munitions*

CAPITALISM!
NATIONALISM!
PATRIOTISM!
FOREVER!

ps: don't anybody worry about China. We'll kick their ass eventually.

EDIT: this may not have made any sense, but what im trying to say is:
F'ING COMMIE! GET A NEW IDEAL CAUSE YOURS SUCKS/IS STUPID!!!!

communism will NEVER WORK! especially in the US. you can give up right now (f'ing commie). do you realize that if you tried and partially succeeded in communizing the US the civil war we would have?

*turns on the news*
Reporter: "The polls are in! Joseph "Marx" Nikoliev, the first member of the US Communist Party to run for President will be just that!"
*goes out and buys a gun and plenty of munitions*

CAPITALISM!
NATIONALISM!
PATRIOTISM!
FOREVER!

ps: don't anybody worry about China. We'll kick their ass eventually.

(Not only do I believe in Capitalism normally, seeing as Communism doesn't work given human nature, which makes your insult unfounded and even more rediculous, but that doesn ot make you seem mature, which by observation you are obviously not. I am not trying to get any reponse, so you don't need to give one.)

don't make me crack up. That has to be the most ridicolous excuse. And Nazi Germany was not a dictatorship,..... Nazism is actually perfect but Hitler corrupted it. You know how childish and downright frugal your arguements seem.

Actually, on paper Communism WORKS. But it is corrupted. Why? Human nature. Thus, a moderate of Capitalism and Soialism is best in my eyes. And Nazism cannot be good. Why? Because it basically says, "kill others for no reason other than race." I do NOT agree with Nazism. At all. Whatsoever. In fact, I RP Nazi presentations being met with bullets.

F'ING COMMIE! GET A NEW IDEAL CAUSE YOURS SUCKS/IS STUPID!!!!

Define "COMMIE."

Actually, on paper Communism WORKS. But it is corrupted. Why? Human nature. Thus, a moderate of Capitalism and Soialism is best in my eyes.

Leninism is easily corrupted, especially when it is forced to go to excess to defend its victory. More libertarian versions may well not be.

Leninism is easily corrupted, especially when it is forced to go to excess to defend its victory. More libertarian versions may well not be.

Well, I wouldn't bet on it.

Well, I wouldn't bet on it.

Why not? Democratic systems tend to work pretty well; the problem Communists have had in the past is that whatever democratic elements of the revolution were crushed by the centralized state apparatus.

Part of that is inherent in any violent revolution, but a movement that more strongly emphasized accountability and pluralism instead of centralization and control could well function without such a failure.

Furthermore, we have no idea what the result of a revolution in a more or less industrialized country would be, since it has never happened; we may learn, the way things are going.

What people fail to see is that...unless we were a collective animal, like some insects, it's impossible to acheive "perfect communism." Maybe on the family/local level, but no way you are going to get a whole nation or the world to succeed with that system.

What people fail to see is that...unless we were a collective animal, like some insects, it's impossible to acheive "perfect communism."

So, for instance, it is impossible for human beings, such radical individualists, to cooperate in a capitalist factory?

Why not? Democratic systems tend to work pretty well; the problem Communists have had in the past is that whatever democratic elements of the revolution were crushed by the centralized state apparatus.

Part of that is inherent in any violent revolution, but a movement that more strongly emphasized accountability and pluralism instead of centralization and control could well function without such a failure.

Furthermore, we have no idea what the result of a revolution in a more or less industrialized country would be, since it has never happened; we may learn, the way things are going.

You know...

You may be right. If a nation goes into it an it works, we'll see.

So, for instance, it is impossible for human beings, such radical individualists, to cooperate in a capitalist factory?

No, and they are cooperating for an incentive, and for the goals of the business.

No, and they are cooperating for an incentive, and for the goals of the business.

So then the problem is not that humans aren't social enough; the problem is that they are greedy.

Note that at least initially, following a Communist revolution there would be a direct economic incentive to work, as there is in capitalism.

"And? What's wrong with being communist?"

You mean other than that it tends to call your intelligence into question??? :D

"And? What's wrong with being communist?"

You mean other than that it tends to call your intelligence into question??? :D

Actually, no, it doesn't. On paper, it works. RL... no. Maybe ,but it has not worked yet.

I heard a few days ago that if you are a registered member of the communist party (in America), you cannot join the United States military! I do say, good sir, WHAT THE FUCK?!?!?!?! I simply do not understand why you cannot be a communist AND fight for your country! Can anyone explain the logic behind this? I mean, sure, when the Russians, who were communists, were fighting us, it was logical. But now, I mean, hell. So what if we're on the line with North Korea? I want to fight for THIS country. MY country. What if I was drafted? Would they force me to change my political orientation? That's a big political freedom to throw out the window. What if we started fighting a capitalist country? Would it then be that we can no longer be capitalist? Can someone please explain to me WHY I cannot be a communist AND be in the military! Ugh, there goes my chances to be an USAF officer...

really im going to join it now so i don't half to jion the army

America versus Communism isn't 'over'.

And my autistic cousin still runs around looking at his hands.

It is here that your Trotskyism is glowing.

LOL :D

"And? What's wrong with being communist?"

You mean other than that it tends to call your intelligence into question??? :D

If I called your intelligence into question with regard to your political beliefs you'd probably report me for flaming. Quit the ridiculous double standard.

Communism is for Reds and Commies!

No offence.

Seriously, though, Communism is a good theory, but it is impossible for it to work in real life, on a large scale. In a localized setting, it is possible to get everyone to live fairly and equally. But if you get a large enough mix of people, you will always get those who desire more than what they have. I admit that I can not prove this, but from what I have seen of human behavior, that is what I conclude.

[QUOTE=
Freidrich Engels noted in 1890 that communism would be impossible in the USA due to it lacking a feudal past, and being bourgoise-minded throughout.[/QUOTE]


Communism does not work. Socialism BARELY works. Capitalism only works for the rich. The HARSH REALITY is: There is no such thing as a perfect Utopia. You must decide what kind of government you want and be as vocal as possible. APATHY and COMPLACENCY are the killers of any government. :sniper:

I heard a few days ago that if you are a registered member of the communist party (in America), you cannot join the United States military! I do say, good sir, WHAT THE FUCK?!?!?!?! I simply do not understand why you cannot be a communist AND fight for your country!

Well, in theory I agree with you. You should be able to join the army whatever your political believes are.

But then you've to remember that USA stands for capitalism. You say the cold war is over. But not really. Look how the USA still tries to crush Cuba. Look how the USA is behind the coup attempt against Hugo Chavez. USA cannot allow "democratic socialism" to ever happen. They'll try to crush it by any means. Knowing that, it's logical that they forbid communists to join the army.

USA may claim they are a democracy, but they are defenders of capitalism first of all. They don't hesitate to replace an elected president with a dictator if this president is too much "communist", they don't hesitate to use harsh laws (McCarthy anyone ?) against their own communists, and so on.

That said, I agree with Kanabia and others: I hardly understand why a communist would like to join a national army of a capitalist country...

Remember the Internationale, the communist anthem:


No more deluded by reaction
On tyrants only we'll make war
The soldiers too will take strike action
They'll break ranks and fight no more
And if those cannibals keep trying
To sacrifice us to their pride
They soon shall hear the bullets flying
We'll shoot the Generals on Our Own Side.

http://www.nick15.com/comics/political/communism.gif

The problem with capitalism is that it will never work. Look around the world at all the capitalist countries, how many of them truly follow the ideals of the free market?

All joking aside, this is a great tip to avoid any potential draft. Besides, its not like joining the commies has any real negative consequences. How many biographies do you read that go something like this "while in college he joined the communist party, afterwards he became a sellout-artist/multimillionaire-investment banker"?

In that case you really shouldn’t be a soldier and especially not a politician :p

If we were being all logical and stuff, this would probably go for libertarians as well.

So that's why people are so far left these days. Everyone is living on debt.

Comon people, clean out your debt and live a good one. If you are a teenager and your parents are in debt, jump on their ass about it.

Credit cards/Loans = Death

People are far left these days? I'm assuming you aren't American. Here in America, Nixon is looking more and more like a Democrat. Bush is even making Nixon's petty brand of corruption look fairly... "quaint."

http://www.nick15.com/comics/political/communism.gif

You don't know anything about this, do you?

You all make comparisons to the USSR, the USSR was not communist, it was more like a fascist state.

True socialism is much better and the Americans can't stand it because it mightmean someone (God forbid) is better than they are.

People who mindless say 'capitalism = evil' are the ones who need their heads examined, as its intolerance at its extreme

You all make comparisons to the USSR, the USSR was not communist, it was more like a fascist state.

True socialism is much better and the Americans can't stand it because it mightmean someone (God forbid) is better than they are.

People who mindless say 'capitalism = evil' are the ones who need their heads examined, as its intolerance at its extreme

Was that aimed at me?

No, not at any one in particular, cosider it as addressing the world

No, not at any one in particular, cosider it as addressing the world

OK.

(Next time, quote the target if you're aiming it at someone, and specify if it's to everyone.)

I heard a few days ago that if you are a registered member of the communist party (in America), you cannot join the United States military! I do say, good sir, WHAT THE FUCK?!?!?!?! I simply do not understand why you cannot be a communist AND fight for your country! Can anyone explain the logic behind this? I mean, sure, when the Russians, who were communists, were fighting us, it was logical. But now, I mean, hell. So what if we're on the line with North Korea? I want to fight for THIS country. MY country. What if I was drafted? Would they force me to change my political orientation? That's a big political freedom to throw out the window. What if we started fighting a capitalist country? Would it then be that we can no longer be capitalist? Can someone please explain to me WHY I cannot be a communist AND be in the military! Ugh, there goes my chances to be an USAF officer...

I am a liberal and this probably does violate some civil rights, but If it were up to me I would black flag every person in the communist party in the US and send them all to north korea for about a year, and if a year later they weren't singing the damn American National Anthem I would leave them there. By the way Karl Marx is in hell, along with hitler and stalin.

I am a liberal and this probably does violate some civil rights, but If it were up to me I would black flag every person in the communist party in the US and send them all to north korea for about a year, and if a year later they weren't singing the damn American National Anthem I would leave them there. By the way Karl Marx is in hell, along with hitler and stalin.

And people say liberals aren't tolerant.