NationStates Jolt Archive

http://money.cnn.com/2006/04/18/news/economy/gas_price_investigation/index.htm?cnn=yes

Already, Americans on a whole are spending $212 million more per day on gasoline than they spent last year, and $522 million more per day than they spent in 2002, according to the Oil Price Information Service, publisher of an industry newsletter.



Half a billion dollars per day. EXTRA! On top of what we were already spending! That's $180 Billion per year. Extra.

Where the fuck is all that money going?!? :eek:

http://money.cnn.com/2006/04/18/news/economy/gas_price_investigation/index.htm?cnn=yes



Half a billion dollars per day. EXTRA! On top of what we were already spending! That's $180 Billion per year. Extra.

Where the fuck is all that money going?!? :eek:


How do you think UAE, Kuwait, Arabia can build all those nice resorts with shiny new buildings. How do you think Chavez can keep spouting his anti-American views?

:mp5: It's expensive, you know!:mad: Ungrateful brat.:sniper:

This would be totally unrelated to record profits for oil companies.

This would be totally unrelated to record profits for oil companies.

And we all know that what's best for the oil corporations is best for us. ;)

:mp5: It's expensive, you know!:mad: Ungrateful brat.:sniper:

*sets fire to the puppet strings* :p

Where the fuck is all that money going?!? :eek:
Once you've lit a cigar with a $100 bill, there simply is no substitute.

Once you've lit a cigar with a $100 bill, there simply is no substitute.
I’ll drink a glass of Cambodian child-laborer blood to that.

I’ll drink a glass of Cambodian child-laborer blood to that.
To Imperialism, may there be no higher stage.
*toasts*

This would be totally unrelated to record profits for oil companies.
I see someone missed the day that they taught the difference between profit and profit margin.

WHERE YOUR GASOLINE DOLLARS GO

Oil producing nations - Bribes to keep people happy or alternatively army to keep them oppressed, generally a bit of both, oil infrastructure, mecedes, gold watches, swiss bank accounts, U.S. government via buying lots and lots of U.S. treasury bills, etc.

Oil companies - Pension funds, other shareholders, oil infrastructure, CEO saleries, small amount to politicians (face it, politicians are cheap to buy.)

Micellanious - People who happened to have a full tank of gas when the price went up, My friend's girlfriend who steal gas from work, me.

I see someone missed the day that they taught the difference between profit and profit margin.

Perhaps Mr. Snarkypants would care to enlighten us on the difference and why we should care.

How do you think Chavez can keep spouting his anti-American views?

But spouting anti-American views is free.

Perhaps Mr. Snarkypants would care to enlighten us on the difference and why we should care.
It's going to be a waste of my time to try and educmacate those of you that don't care, but I'll give it a go.

Let's use small numbers, so you can understand.
You are selling a product for $10. It costs $9 to make and sell the product. You have a $1 profit and a 10% profit margin. Now, let's say that production costs have gone through the roof. It now costs $18 to make this product that you sell for $20. You have just watched your profits double, but you have kept the same profit margin. You are still making the same profit on every dollar that you invest in your business, but the demagogues and the ignorant see this as a windfall that must be siezed.

Something we should really be considering is the fact that the federal government makes almost twice as much off of each gallon of gas than do the oil companies.

Yeah, my heart bleeds for the poor oil companies. They aren't making THAT much money! :rolleyes:

How do you think UAE, Kuwait, Arabia can build all those nice resorts with shiny new buildings. How do you think Chavez can keep spouting his anti-American views?
Wrong answer:

Exxon Mobil sets profit record (http://money.cnn.com/2006/01/30/news/companies/exxon_earns/)

Oil Industry Seeks to Cast Huge Profits as No Big Deal (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/27/AR2005102702399.html)

By most familiar comparisons, the $9.92 billion profit earned by Exxon Mobil Corp. in just three months is almost unimaginable. It would cover all Social Security benefit payments for three months. It would pay for an Ivy League education for about 60,000 kids. It would pay the average list price for more than 160 Boeing 737s. It would fund the military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan for more than two months.

Backlash spreads as oil companies' profits surge (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05301/596812.stm)

As high fuel prices roil consumers and Congress considers a variety of measures to ease the impact, Exxon Mobil Corp. and Royal Dutch Shell PLC, the world's No. 1 and No. 3 oil companies, weighed in with record third-quarter earnings that totaled almost $19 billion.

ExxonMobil amasses record $36B 2005 profit (http://www.usatoday.com/money/companies/earnings/2006-01-30-exxonmobil_x.htm)

Gas prices on the rise as oil hits record high (http://sympaticomsn.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060418/crude_oil_prices_060418)

Oil prices settled at a new trading record of $71.35 US a barrel Tuesday, sparking a 3.8 per cent jump in the average price at the pumps across Canada, with more increases likely to come.

Fuelled by concerns over Tehran's nuclear ambitions and supply disruptions in Nigeria, U.S. light, sweet crude exceeded the previous record of $70.85 a barrel in Asian electronic trading on the New York Mercantile Exchange set Aug. 30, 2005 -- an increase of 95 cents from Monday's record high settlement price.

Go ahead, support the bombing of Iran as the oil prices soar!! :rolleyes:

Yeah, my heart bleeds for the poor oil companies. They aren't making THAT much money! :rolleyes:
No one wants you to feel sorry for them, and you can rag on them all you want for all I care. I love a good insult, as long as its accurate.

Wrong answer:

Exxon Mobil sets profit record (http://money.cnn.com/2006/01/30/news/companies/exxon_earns/)

Oil Industry Seeks to Cast Huge Profits as No Big Deal (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/27/AR2005102702399.html)

By most familiar comparisons, the $9.92 billion profit earned by Exxon Mobil Corp. in just three months is almost unimaginable. It would cover all Social Security benefit payments for three months. It would pay for an Ivy League education for about 60,000 kids. It would pay the average list price for more than 160 Boeing 737s. It would fund the military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan for more than two months.


Demagogue Alert!!!
As you Washington Post article goes on to state, Exxon's profit margins are not that great. But, you probably don't know a 10K from a 10Q from shinola.
"For instance, in 2004 Exxon Mobil earned more money -- $25.33 billion -- than any other company on the Fortune 500 list of largest corporations. But by another measure of profitability, gross profit margin, it ranked No. 127."
Exxon is a big company. Of course it should make large amounts of money.

Demagogue Alert!!!
As you Washington Post article goes on to state, Exxon's profit margins are not that great. But, you probably don't know a 10K from a 10Q from shinola.
"For instance, in 2004 Exxon Mobil earned more money -- $25.33 billion -- than any other company on the Fortune 500 list of largest corporations. But by another measure of profitability, gross profit margin, it ranked No. 127."
Exxon is a big company. Of course it should make large amounts of money.
It probably doesn't matter to you because you own your own company and you use the gasoline costs as a tax deduction?

It's going to be a waste of my time to try and educmacate those of you that don't care, but I'll give it a go.

Let's use small numbers, so you can understand.
You are selling a product for $10. It costs $9 to make and sell the product. You have a $1 profit and a 10% profit margin. Now, let's say that production costs have gone through the roof. It now costs $18 to make this product that you sell for $20. You have just watched your profits double, but you have kept the same profit margin. You are still making the same profit on every dollar that you invest in your business, but the demagogues and the ignorant see this as a windfall that must be siezed.

Something we should really be considering is the fact that the federal government makes almost twice as much off of each gallon of gas than do the oil companies.
So, in summary, profit margins are imaginary numbers used by big corporations into goading people into the idea they are making less money than they should be.

One solution to the costs you are incurring in using gasoline might be to STOP USING SO MUCH. :headbang:

Who knows, the environment might even benefit and our great-great-grandchildren might have some oil left...

Demagogue Alert!!!
As you Washington Post article goes on to state, Exxon's profit margins are not that great. But, you probably don't know a 10K from a 10Q from shinola.
"For instance, in 2004 Exxon Mobil earned more money -- $25.33 billion -- than any other company on the Fortune 500 list of largest corporations. But by another measure of profitability, gross profit margin, it ranked No. 127."
Exxon is a big company. Of course it should make large amounts of money.
Hmmm, what were you saying about Exxon?

Exxon Mobil
Rank: 1 (2005 rank: 2) (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/snapshots/496.html)

How could it rank #127 for gross profit, yet #1 for most profitable?

Top companies
Most Profitable Companies: Profits (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/performers/companies/profits/)

So, in summary, profit margins are imaginary numbers used by big corporations into goading people into the idea they are making less money than they should be.

No, actually they are more accurate. Profits would be much more difficult to analyze without determining the profit margin; a big number for profit is meaningless if you're an extremely large company.

Exxon is the world's largest corporation in terms of revenue and therefore they will have the biggest profits even though their margins are much lower; you can't compare a company with $30 billion in revenue and a company with $300 billion in revenue in nominal terms because it's an incorrect methodology.

Even so, oil and gas companies' profit margins are nothing compared to homebuilders. If there's an industry people should be complaining about, it's those guys (even though they aren't doing anything wrong either).

If people don't like high gas prices, they have to drive less and buy more efficient vehicles. Today's situation was inevitable given the low prices throughout the last two decades that stifled exploration and encouraged demand to rise while efficiency fell. It will mitigate eventually, but right now there is no way to combat high prices other than demand destruction.

If people don't like high gas prices, they have to drive less and buy more efficient vehicles. Today's situation was inevitable given the low prices throughout the last two decades that stifled exploration and encouraged demand to rise while efficiency fell. It will mitigate eventually, but right now there is no way to combat high prices other than demand destruction.
Fucking shenanigans. The current ridiculous rise in prices is due to Bush's favorite pasttime - sabre rattling.

http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/news/1145187230303430.xml&coll=2

How could it rank #127 for gross profit, yet #1 for most profitable?


I'll demonstrate:

There are two companies, A and B. Company A has annual revenues of $500 billion with a profit margin of 10%, giving it $50 billion in profits. Company B has annual revenues of $50 billion with a profit margin of 50%, giving it $25 billion in profits.

Company A ranks first in nominal profits but ranks second in profit margins. Were company B to grow to the same revenues of Company A, its profits would be $250 billion.

Here's a real world comparison: Cisco Systems had a profit of $5.58 billion on revenues of $25.95 billion. Were it the same size as Exxon with constant profit margins, it's profits would be $70.82 billion, almost double that of XOM.

http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/news/1145187230303430.xml&coll=2
And Myrmidonisia had the nerve to call me a Demagogue!! :eek:

From your article Vittos:

Dallas- A $69.7 million compensation package and $98 million pension payout to Exxon Mobil Corp.'s former Chief Executive and Chairman Lee R. Raymond has some shareholders and economists asking, "How much is enough?"

"Some folks will ask the question, 'Is this more evidence of big oil taking an enormous windfall and retaining all the riches?' " said Mel Fugate, assistant professor for Southern Methodist University's Cox School of Business.

The Irving, Texas, company has drawn criticism from politicians and economists for becoming the most profitable company in history - at consumers' expense, they say.

The poor guy probably worked a whole 35 to 40 hours a week for that kind of payout?

Fucking shenanigans. The current ridiculous rise in prices is due to Bush's favorite pasttime - sabre rattling.

No, there really is a supply crunch. It began in 1999 when OPEC reunified and proceeded to cut output, driving up prices to around $30/barrel. At the same time, however, the economies of India and China were accelerating, driving up demand for oil despite falling supplies.

Up until 2003 there was still slack caused by the recession but that was consumed as the OECD also rebounded further driving demand. Falling output in Russia due to the financial crisis and instability as well as problems in Nigeria also strained the market. Hurricanes didn't help, nor has tightness in the refining sector.

It takes around 8-10 years for new production to be fully developed. 8 years ago, oil was at $10/barrel and new production had slowed to a near standstill. Therefore, capacity growth that might have occured under more stable market conditions did not and prices have risen accordingly.

I think they'll probably cool down somewhat once traders lose focus on Iran/Nigeria since US crude stocks are at eight-year highs. Interestingly enough, Hugo Chavez was instrumental in reunifying OPEC after 24 years of disunity that had depressed prices for oil since 1986.

And Myrmidonisia had the nerve to call me a Demagogue!! :eek:

From your article Vittos:

Dallas- A $69.7 million compensation package and $98 million pension payout to Exxon Mobil Corp.'s former Chief Executive and Chairman Lee R. Raymond has some shareholders and economists asking, "How much is enough?"

"Some folks will ask the question, 'Is this more evidence of big oil taking an enormous windfall and retaining all the riches?' " said Mel Fugate, assistant professor for Southern Methodist University's Cox School of Business.

The Irving, Texas, company has drawn criticism from politicians and economists for becoming the most profitable company in history - at consumers' expense, they say.

The poor guy probably worked a whole 35 to 40 hours a week for that kind of payout?

For Leading Exxon to Its Riches, $144,573 a Day (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/15/business/15pay.html?ex=1302753600&en=89993dc20e1e7e97&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss)

Hmmm, what were you saying about Exxon?

Exxon Mobil
Rank: 1 (2005 rank: 2) (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/snapshots/496.html)

How could it rank #127 for gross profit, yet #1 for most profitable?

Top companies
Most Profitable Companies: Profits (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/performers/companies/profits/)

He said gross profit margin. So even though Exxon makes a greater profit, it actually takes less of the top than 126 other companies.

It's going to be a waste of my time to try and educmacate those of you that don't care, but I'll give it a go.

Let's use small numbers, so you can understand.
You are selling a product for $10. It costs $9 to make and sell the product. You have a $1 profit and a 10% profit margin. Now, let's say that production costs have gone through the roof. It now costs $18 to make this product that you sell for $20. You have just watched your profits double, but you have kept the same profit margin. You are still making the same profit on every dollar that you invest in your business, but the demagogues and the ignorant see this as a windfall that must be siezed.

Something we should really be considering is the fact that the federal government makes almost twice as much off of each gallon of gas than do the oil companies.

Alright, first order of business. Get the fuck off your high horse. While there most certainly are people who don't understand what you are talking about, it really isn't very complex, and you are not speaking to toddlers.

Exactly what you just described happens, only in the oil industry it is driven by supply and demand forcasts and realities. They are not spending extra to refine the crude just more for the barrels from the supplier in the first place. This means that although they have to spend more capital to get the product they then turn around and sell it with the same percentage of profit as before except with prices much much higher. This means they end up with much more profit than before. This is real profit. What does it matter that they are a big company? They are making much much more today than they were last week. Why? Because they are taking advantage of a situation. You think that their whole production and distribution system changes daily? Of course not. That means the only extra expense they have to cover is that rising price from the supplier. Thus, my friend, keeping the same profit margin increases overall profits on an unprecidented scale. The money is still worth what it was before; they are still covering the exact same costs after the initial purchase. The only difference is instead of lowering the percentage to account for this they keep it the same so the monatary profits soar.

Look at your local gas station. They have a tank full of gas that they bought at say $1.00 a gallon (arbitrary figures). They see that when they go to refill their gas tank it will cost more so they immediately raise the price of what they have already bought (increasing the profit margin). They use this extra money to buy the next tank so they don't even feel the difference in price. They then raise this next batch even higher to account for the next. They never ever feel the crunch of higher prices like any other business would. Instead we pay it and the extra lines their pockets. (The extra of course if it goes down again. Since they never drop it down lower to give us back what they took in the original unnecessary price hike)

If I printed a magazine and paper was going to go up in price next week I would be forced to sell my next issue at a higher price to make up the difference. The oil companies raise the price immediately and keep the extra even though they already own supplies they attained at a lower price.

Now take into consideration that the entire United States economy relies on oil prices. They push their profits higher and higher at the cost of all the American people in every sector of life (and no it does not make the slightest difference that the margin is the same). The oil companies have no risk since we all need oil. Their product is always profitable under any circumstance. Thus they have an obligation to their customers not to take advantage of them. But they just suck up more and more money without consideration that percentages mean nothing to people with a fixed income.

By the way. I take the bus to school and only drive to work because there is no bus and I drive home very very occasionally to see my family. I occasionally drive to friend's houses in town as well (God forbid). The government has no effective public transportation set up for the majority of the country. You can only cut back so much. The oil companies are as unAmerican as it gets. They are pushing and pushing on the consumer to take as much as they can while they can. The profit margin needs to be reduced. Yes prices are inevitably going up. This is unavoidable. It should not be aided by greedy bastards. This is aviodable.

Myrmidonisia, stop with the additude.(sp?)

It won't win you any debates. We are not retarded.

I'll demonstrate:

There are two companies, A and B. Company A has annual revenues of $500 billion with a profit margin of 10%, giving it $50 billion in profits. Company B has annual revenues of $50 billion with a profit margin of 50%, giving it $25 billion in profits.

Company A ranks first in nominal profits but ranks second in profit margins. Were company B to grow to the same revenues of Company A, its profits would be $250 billion.

Here's a real world comparison: Cisco Systems had a profit of $5.58 billion on revenues of $25.95 billion. Were it the same size as Exxon with constant profit margins, it's profits would be $70.82 billion, almost double that of XOM.
Tanks!! Tanks a lot!! ;)

I love how Saudi Arabia has a huge deficit in spite of the enormous sums they earn each year. A fourth of their oil-income goes directly to the royal family.

Let's use small numbers, so you can understand.
You are selling a product for $10. It costs $9 to make and sell the product. You have a $1 profit and a 10% profit margin. Now, let's say that production costs have gone through the roof. It now costs $18 to make this product that you sell for $20. You have just watched your profits double, but you have kept the same profit margin. You are still making the same profit on every dollar that you invest in your business, but the demagogues and the ignorant see this as a windfall that must be siezed.

What you forget is that most of the investements of oil companies are in infrastructure (tankers, oil stations, raffineries, ...) and those prices don't rise as high as oil price. So when the price of the oil barrel goes up, the profits AND the profit margin of oil companies go up. Most investements are already done (sure, they continue to build a few reffinery to build some pipelines, but compared to all they already built, it's small).

But well, Total's increase of profits is much more than the hole of the french social security system, and we are still told that there is no money and that it's not possible to sustend the system now... system which was created in the ruins of World War II, but they probably don't know that either.

I love how Saudi Arabia has a huge deficit in spite of the enormous sums they earn each year. A fourth of their oil-income goes directly to the royal family.

Happy people.
Honnour rules.

If they die without debt they die without honnour.
I like that sense of honnour.

But where could the money go, if not to the royal family?
They pay for all, hotels, cars, tchadors, Imans, water... they even offer presents to allied countries... Imans and Imans... and lotta scarves.
They rich enough to afford a nice religion.
Happy people.
:upyours:

What you forget is that most of the investements of oil companies are in infrastructure (tankers, oil stations, raffineries, ...) and those prices don't rise as high as oil price. So when the price of the oil barrel goes up, the profits AND the profit margin of oil companies go up. Most investements are already done (sure, they continue to build a few reffinery to build some pipelines, but compared to all they already built, it's small).
You're wrong. This is all spelled out in excruciating detail on a 10Q. Show me how the profit margin has increased. I'll even give you a hint about where to start. FreeEDGAR will get you access to SEC filings.

Then you can tell me about the last refinery that was built in the U.S. When, where, and capacity. Try to find one built within the last 30 years.

It's going to be a waste of my time to try and educmacate those of you that don't care, but I'll give it a go.

Let's use small numbers, so you can understand.
You are selling a product for $10. It costs $9 to make and sell the product. You have a $1 profit and a 10% profit margin. Now, let's say that production costs have gone through the roof. It now costs $18 to make this product that you sell for $20. You have just watched your profits double, but you have kept the same profit margin. You are still making the same profit on every dollar that you invest in your business, but the demagogues and the ignorant see this as a windfall that must be siezed.

Something we should really be considering is the fact that the federal government makes almost twice as much off of each gallon of gas than do the oil companies.


Yes, this also creates more B&O tax for the business. For example in my state my B&O tax is about 3.5% of my GROSS profits. No mention of what my net profit is. So you can easily see how a higher product cost would kill the profit margin. Although I live in one of those progressive Democratic states. I'm sure they know what they are doing...

Alright, first order of business. Get the fuck off your high horse. While there most certainly are people who don't understand what you are talking about, it really isn't very complex, and you are not speaking to toddlers.

Your critical yet you yourself do not fully comprehend what is going on in the business world. You demonstrate this in your following post.



Exactly what you just described happens, only in the oil industry it is driven by supply and demand forcasts and realities. They are not spending extra to refine the crude just more for the barrels from the supplier in the first place. This means that although they have to spend more capital to get the product they then turn around and sell it with the same percentage of profit as before except with prices much much higher. This means they end up with much more profit than before. This is real profit. What does it matter that they are a big company? They are making much much more today than they were last week. Why? Because they are taking advantage of a situation. You think that their whole production and distribution system changes daily? Of course not. That means the only extra expense they have to cover is that rising price from the supplier. Thus, my friend, keeping the same profit margin increases overall profits on an unprecidented scale. The money is still worth what it was before; they are still covering the exact same costs after the initial purchase. The only difference is instead of lowering the percentage to account for this they keep it the same so the monatary profits soar.

Now I am not going to defend everything the oil industry does. However the production and distribution system does change. Refinery systems are damaged in natural disasters. New state regulations on the fuel mix is nearly different in every state. Government regulations have a huge impact on the oil industry. Thus creating higher prices for all of us. Also foreign speculation. We do not have control over that as a nation. That is just how it is. I also mentioned in a previous post the B&O tax rate on Gross profits. That also has an impact on the margin.


Look at your local gas station. They have a tank full of gas that they bought at say $1.00 a gallon (arbitrary figures). They see that when they go to refill their gas tank it will cost more so they immediately raise the price of what they have already bought (increasing the profit margin). They use this extra money to buy the next tank so they don't even feel the difference in price. They then raise this next batch even higher to account for the next. They never ever feel the crunch of higher prices like any other business would. Instead we pay it and the extra lines their pockets. (The extra of course if it goes down again. Since they never drop it down lower to give us back what they took in the original unnecessary price hike)

You have no idea how a gas station runs do you? Alot of the independents barely make it by. Due to contracts with the oil companies the bottom line is roughly 10-15 cents a gallon all the time. No matter the price. Now they raise prices right away because they get fuel 2-5 times a week. That next fill up is at the higher price. Which could be that day or the next day. So they really are not trying to gouge us.



If I printed a magazine and paper was going to go up in price next week I would be forced to sell my next issue at a higher price to make up the difference. The oil companies raise the price immediately and keep the extra even though they already own supplies they attained at a lower price.

Again as I stated previously.


Now take into consideration that the entire United States economy relies on oil prices. They push their profits higher and higher at the cost of all the American people in every sector of life (and no it does not make the slightest difference that the margin is the same). The oil companies have no risk since we all need oil. Their product is always profitable under any circumstance. Thus they have an obligation to their customers not to take advantage of them. But they just suck up more and more money without consideration that percentages mean nothing to people with a fixed income.

We need to get of our oil dependency. I can agree with that. Also the world does not revolve around fixed incomes. Never will..


By the way. I take the bus to school and only drive to work because there is no bus and I drive home very very occasionally to see my family. I occasionally drive to friend's houses in town as well (God forbid). The government has no effective public transportation set up for the majority of the country. You can only cut back so much. The oil companies are as unAmerican as it gets. They are pushing and pushing on the consumer to take as much as they can while they can. The profit margin needs to be reduced. Yes prices are inevitably going up. This is unavoidable. It should not be aided by greedy bastards. This is aviodable.


Transportation systems are extremely expensive in most cases. So we should raise taxes to fund this eh? No thanks... Also we do live in a market economy. I hear Venezuela is fairly sunny. Gas is cheap there... Habla Espanol?

Myrmidonisia, stop with the additude.(sp?)

It won't win you any debates. We are not retarded.
Speak for yourself.:p




Actually without reading the OP, millons were freighted into Iraq and 100 of K's were kept in footlockers of Lower officers rooms and it was a blank check pretty much.

All I know is I have more money now oil prices have gone up.

Well the Iranian nuclear problem has caused oil prices to jump another $10 per barrel. That's almost another $30 billion a year the US is spending on oil because Bush feels like he might want to get involved in another war. Third time lucky, eh?