NationStates Jolt Archive

Originally posted in The Nation:

In the Path of a Storm, Vets Protest a War
by CHRISTIAN PARENTI

[posted online on March 19, 2006]

New Orleans

A column of American military veterans of wars in Iraq, Vietnam and points in between, as well as parents and families of soldiers, marched into New Orleans Sunday chanting radical cadences and flying a 1776 version of the American flag.

Young Iraq vets led the column of roughly 250 through the gray, wrecked landscape, many wearing their desert camouflage uniforms, with upside-down American flag patches on their shoulders, sporting shades, beards, kaffiyehs and chests full of metals. At night and along the roads the conversation frequently turns to PTSD, poverty, depleted uranium-caused cancer, unpaid student loans, Ramadi, Tikrit, IEDs and the intense camaraderie of this new movement.

Older veterans, mostly from the Vietnam War, who helped a younger generation of soldiers to launch Iraq Veterans Against the War (IVAW) are still as angry as they were thirty years ago, but their once-youthful anger and grief has been tempered by a generation of struggle. And it is upon this platform that the young Iraq vets are now building their piece of the movement.

"Our motto is that never again will one generation of veterans turn their back on another," said Dave Cline, a longtime activist and early member of Vietnam Veterans Against the War.

The column spent the six days prior to arriving in New Orleans tromping and caravanning from Mobile, Alabama, through the devastation that is, still, the Gulf Coast. Along the way the vets and their supporters left teams to help "muck out" some of the trashed homes along the small towns of the Gulf Coast. But the protest's larger aim was to make the connections between the devastation here and the ruin of Iraq. The protesters say corruption, incompetence and inhumanity mark both.

"All the money that is going to Iraq could be going down here," says former Army sniper and IVAW member Garrett Reppenhagen.

According to the IVAW, the invasion and occupation of Iraq could cost $2.65 trillion. Other numbers mentioned along the march were the more than 2,400 American troops and 100,000 Iraqis killed.

At times the connections between Iraq and the Gulf Coast became all too real, or even surreal. The ruined homes, lack of water and sporadic electricity along the way reminded many vets of the war zones in Iraq and Afghanistan that some had left only months before.

"In Gulfport I heard a pop or a snap and looked back, and one of my guys took a knee," said Navy corps and combat vet Charles Anderson, referring to the common military position of kneeling in preparation for action. "I went back to him, put my hand on him and told him: 'It's OK, we're in Mississippi now.' "

On Thursday, the thirty-eighth anniversary of the My Lai massacre, the marchers were camped deep in the wrecked bayou country east of New Orleans and the mouth of Lake Pontchartrain. In a clearing by a brackish creek, among a forest of dry, ashen-colored, half-toppled pine trees, the vets listened to the stories of local residents who spoke from a small plywood stage about the horrors of the storm and the abandonment that followed. Bereft of state or federal aid, many of the people there were still in bare survival mode.

A local man named Raymond Couture broke down in tears as he told his story of finding thirty-four corpses in a local nursing home. "They ain't done nothing for us here yet, so I know they ain't done nothing for them people in Iraq." Then the vets and military families spoke. Tina Garnanez, a young Navajo, lesbian and vet, spoke of her experiences in Iraq. She described the track record of lies, broken promises and rising violence in Iraq as mirroring the history of broken treaties, genocide and poverty that shape reservation life in the United States.

Dinner in the broken forest was alligator gumbo; the IVAW kids partied out and then slept under the stars.

Later, in the Lower Ninth Ward of New Orleans, Demond Mullins, who returned from heavy combat in Iraq only five months ago, looked out at the ravaged, filthy wreckage in a quiet fury. "I can't believe this. This is worse than Baghdad. What my country has become sickens me."

The march from Mobile to New Orleans marks a new stage in organizing among Iraq veterans and thus a new stage for the peace movement. A year ago IVAW was, in reality, mostly just a good idea and a small speakers' bureau. Now it is a real organization and a key piece in the larger coalition of groups like Veterans for Peace and Military Families Speak Out that make up the heart of peace movement.

4.7 Percent unemployment rate, millions of jobs created.

Que?

Que?

Si

Si

¿Qué quiere decir usted con esto?

Yes, I did run it through an Online translator. So sue me.

4.7 Percent unemployment rate, millions of jobs created.That's an artificially low unemployment rate, as it doesn't count all the underemployed people and those who have fallen off the unemployment rolls (which means they've been jobless for more than six months). But I guess that as long as he's not Fidel, he's a fucking hero, huh? :rolleyes:

That's an artificially low unemployment rate, as it doesn't count all the underemployed people and those who have fallen off the unemployment rolls (which means they've been jobless for more than six months). But I guess that as long as he's not Fidel, he's a fucking hero, huh? :rolleyes:

But then again, that rate is the one that matters; you can't really eliminate structural unemployment easily, so counting those people would distort the unemployment rate even further because it would make it harder to determine the general and trending rate of labor market liquidity, which makes fighting inflation all the harder.

You can find the figures for all but long-term unemployment within the labor report; the broadest measure of unemployment is 8.2%, down from 9.4% last March. That's an important movement because it shows the labor market is getting much tighter than it was a year ago, with inflationary implications.

In fact, people who have been unemployed for six months or more probably shouldn't be counted as unemployed because it is likely they are structurally rather than cyclically jobless; it is the cyclical unemployment that matters to the BLS and the Federal Reserve because it is the determinant of "full employment" and guides their FOMC policy.

The headline rate is the one most important to a prospective (and qualified, a very important prerequisite) job seeker, since that number includes frictional unemployment.

What I'm trying to say is that the unemployment number is not selective to make the President look better, but rather to give the Fed a quick measure of the labor market

It's almost guaranteed that labor participation will remain flat or decline due to retiring Baby Boomers leaving the labor force and driving it down. However, the employment-population ratio is trending up steadily which is a good sign for the labor market and employment seekers in general...however, falling participation and rising employment relative to population drive up wages faster which can be an inflationary risk.

I'm sorry, it won't catch on. "Bush's america" lacks the euphony of "Thatcher's Britian."

@Nazz, I would imagine if you really had fled Castro, an anyone but castro policy would be the order of the day.

4.7 Percent unemployment rate, millions of jobs created.

If money is your only concern that might be good enough. But for the rest of us who value things other than money it isn't.

It's insulting intellectually to attribute the health of the entire economy to the president.

If I hire someone, it is ME that deserves credit for doing so. But in this new age of economic idiocy, its the President who would get credit for "creating a job."

Stupid.

What I'm trying to say is that the unemployment number is not selective to make the President look better,


Sure it is. They all brag about it.....

4.7 Percent unemployment rate, millions of jobs created.

Many going to illegals.

(Nevermind the fact that most Americans wouldn't want those jobs in the first place.)

But I guess that as long as he's not Fidel, he's a fucking hero, huh?

Nazz and you would be the opposite, Anti President Bush, Pro Fidel.

Fidel the one that would take your right to vote and choose, the one that would not respect your right to disagree with any government policy, and would not give you the means to challenge, change or disagree with any government policy.

And would not allow a site like Nationstates to exist for you to share your economic, political and social points of views with others.

Because that is Fidel's nature.

In this nature, Bush dosent come anywhere near Fidel.

LHC,

Whilst Bush, per se does not work to deny people those things of which you speak, his supporters do so. Actively. They do not respect your right to disagree with the government (unless it's one run by the Democrats), and they actively seek to prevent people from expressing their sentiments against Bush, let alone allow anyone to challenge or even (God forbid) change them.

The only difference, in this regard, between Bush and Fidel, is that Fidel does it himself, while Bush lets others do it for him.

George Bush's America is a democracy, if the people didn't like him they would have gotten rid of him

Schrandtopia']George Bush's America is a democracy, if the people didn't like him they would have gotten rid of him

Except for the vast majority of Americans who are apathetic, you mean?

"The way you can tell the rigged elections from the honest ones is that the rigged ones don't make any sense."

LHC,

Whilst Bush, per se does not work to deny people those things of which you speak, his supporters do so. Actively. They do not respect your right to disagree with the government (unless it's one run by the Democrats), and they actively seek to prevent people from expressing their sentiments against Bush, let alone allow anyone to challenge or even (God forbid) change them.

The only difference, in this regard, between Bush and Fidel, is that Fidel does it himself, while Bush lets others do it for him.

The real diffrence is, at least President George Bush will leave office in about 2 years when the term expires, compare that with Fidel, over 47 years and counting as dictator for life.

I rest my case.

The real diffrence is, at least President George Bush will leave office in about 2 years when the term expires, compare that with Fidel, over 47 years and counting as dictator for life.

I rest my case.

You don't know that he'll leave office. A lot can happen in two years.

Except for the vast majority of Americans who are apathetic, you mean?

if you're too lazy to vote your opinion doesn't matter

You don't know that he'll leave office. A lot can happen in two years.

no

just, no

Schrandtopia']no

just, no

Well, I hope he leaves office NOW.

You don't know that he'll leave office. A lot can happen in two years.

OK, then he becomes a dictator for life, just like Fidel is now.

I rest my case.

Schrandtopia']if you're too lazy to vote your opinion doesn't matter

But if you're going to vote because you feel strongly on exactly one issue (gay marriage, and being against it, mostly), your opinion does count?

OK, then he becomes a dictator for life, just like Fidel is now.

I rest my case.

Jolly good.

But just because Fidel is an ebolsumbitch doesn't mean that Bush isn't (nor that Bush wouldn't go that far if he wished to).

Schrandtopia']no

just, no

It is... inevitable, Mister Anderson.

Well, I hope he leaves office NOW.

you want Dick Chenny in that bad?

But if you're going to vote because you feel strongly on exactly one issue (gay marriage, and being against it, mostly), your opinion does count?

yes

Schrandtopia']you want Dick Chenny in that bad?

No, I want a competent president in. I'm sick and tired of having our Southern nieghbour being run by a moron.

doesn't mean that Bush isn't (nor that Bush wouldn't go that far if he wished to).

thats why wee have a constitution and a standing army - no matter what you think of Bush he loves this country and will do whatever he thinks is best for it, and he knows that is a smooth transition of power to who ever wins the next election

No, I want a competent president in. I'm sick and tired of having our Southern nieghbour being run by a moron.

well, he graduated from Yale - I don't know what more you want

Schrandtopia']well, he graduated from Yale - I don't know what more you want

I guess they'll let anyone in there, these days. :p

Schrandtopia']yes

I think it's safe to say that you have chosen an extremely unusual and arbitrary point to select for when an American citizens voice counts in their own government or not. Especially since all Americans are supposed to be equal and all that.

I think it's safe to say that you have chosen an extremely unusual and arbitrary point to select for when an American citizens voice counts in their own government or not. Especially since all Americans are supposed to be equal and all that.

its not by any means arbitrary - America gives every citizen the oppertunity to cast your vote to influence the govnerment - if you fail to use the proper channels to influence the govenrment its your own damn fault

Schrandtopia']its not by any means arbitrary - America gives every citizen the oppertunity to cast your vote to influence the govnerment - if you fail to use the proper channels to influence the govenrment its your own damn fault

Or you're too damned busy working three jobs trying to make ends meet.

But whatever.

The only difference, in this regard, between Bush and Fidel, is that Fidel does it himself, while Bush lets others do it for him.
Yeah, and given Bush's track record, he'd screw that all up somehow and implicate himself even further. It appears on occasion he needs people to chew his food for him, even ...

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10782425&postcount=34

Schrandtopia']George Bush's America is a democracy, if the people didn't like him they would have gotten rid of him
Yeah ...
"If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator." —Shrubya, Washington, D.C., Dec. 19, 2000

coupled with today's news ....

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000087&sid=aQB35g3tw5Ig&refer=top_world_news
Bolten Says White House Staff Must `Re-Engage' or Leave Posts
April 17 (Bloomberg) -- Joshua Bolten, the new White House chief of staff, indicated he's preparing to make changes in the Bush administration, telling senior aides today to `refresh, re- engage'' or quit now.

``If you're thinking about leaving, now's the time,'' Press Secretary Scott McClellan quoted Bolten as telling White House senior staff. The former budget director said he wanted people with enough energy to be ``charging ahead for the next two-and one-half years,'' McClellan said.

Bolten took over the job on Saturday, replacing Andrew Card. A replacement for Bolten as director of the White House budget office is expected ``soon,'' McClellan said.

President George W. Bush has granted Bolten, a one-time campaign aide and former director of Goldman Sachs International Inc. in London, authority to clean house. The president, his approval ratings in polls eroding, faces a host of challenges led by the war in Iraq, a largely stalled legislative agenda and lawmakers in Congress charting their own courses as they prepare for elections in November.

..

Asked at a briefing this morning if he was departing, McClellan replied, ``Are you tempting me?'' He then invoked his past stance of not commenting on personnel matters.
---
Well, not the greatest follow-up, but certainly worth mention.

OK, then he becomes a dictator for life, just like Fidel is now.

I rest my case.
Wait, how can you "rest" a case you haven't formally exhumed and reissued?

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10784309&postcount=18

Perhaps the argument tires easily ...? ;)

Or you're too damned busy working three jobs trying to make ends meet.

the polls are open all day - you can wait 5 minutes

sillyness

we have a constitution and a standing army - no matter what you think of Bush he loves this country and will do whatever he thinks is best for it, and he knows that is a smooth transition of power to who ever wins the next election

Schrandtopia']we have a constitution and a standing army - no matter what you think of Bush he loves this country and will do whatever he thinks is best for it, and he knows that is a smooth transition of power to who ever wins the next election

Yes, well, when Bush was running for President, I believed:

-That he was for smaller government
-Reduced spending
-A more isolationist America
-A uniter, not a divider

When we were about to invade Iraq he convinced most Americans (but not me. I had given up believing him by this time):

-That Iraq was in possession of WMD
-That Iraq was helping to fund al-Qaeda
-That Iraq was a clear and present threat to the US

None of these things have turned out to be true. Why should I believe that he'll step down peacably?

Schrandtopia']no matter what you think of Bush he loves this country and will do whatever he thinks is best for it, and he knows that is a smooth transition of power to who ever wins the next election
Well, too bad you're ... how do i say it ... utterly wrong. It's not about what "i" think. It's about the guy's track record. As for the constitution, remind him
it's not "just a piece of paper"
and he should perhaps read the First and Fourth Amendments, for quite obvious reasons ... and above all, to remember what he swore UNDER OATH upon his inauguration.
As for the military, AGAIN he is seperate from them by ... a certain time period spent that resulted in him skipping a physical, missing out on flight hours and thusly dropping his last YEAR of service to the Guard (what years were those again, anything going on?) so he could work for a congressman in Alabama?
He doesn't belong associated with either of those things and you should develop the shame to understand what an insult that is to have done so already.
Further, consider decisions that were DIRECTLY his to make and the security of the country involved, and recognize further folly in your above statement.
Lastly, there isn't *ANY* evidence from the past two elections involving him that can qualify your last statement there.
I'm pretty sure you don't want to get into this argument with me or many other people here.

Schrandtopia']I probably shouldn't quote Straughn as saying things s/he didn't say.
See above.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10784466&postcount=40

Let's be honest.

We thought we were electing a Forrest Gump.

Unfortunately, we got a lot of Forrest (as in Bedford Forrest) and not a whole lot of Gump (but still plenty to make us ponder the IQ of him).

Let's be honest.

We thought we were electing a Forrest Gump.

Unfortunately, we got a lot of Forrest (as in Bedford Forrest) and not a whole lot of Gump (but still plenty to make us ponder the IQ of him).
Ooooh! That's gotta smart! :D

It's insulting intellectually to attribute the health of the entire economy to the president.

If I hire someone, it is ME that deserves credit for doing so. But in this new age of economic idiocy, its the President who would get credit for "creating a job."

Stupid.
It's the government that causes the climate in which you can afford to hire people.

You don't know that he'll leave office. A lot can happen in two years.
Every other US President has left office in time. I don't think that Bush has the guts to break that precedent.

Well, I hope he leaves office NOW.
What? And get Dick Cheney for the next 32 months?

you think bush is afraid to break precedent? you may call it minor but in his time hes managed to strain relations with almost all of the US's former allies/friendly governments. consider france: france and the US have been allied since the american revolution. thats an international relationship thats older than the country's independence! hmm, yeah we must not break with precedent.

you think bush is afraid to break precedent? you may call it minor but in his time hes managed to strain relations with almost all of the US's former allies/friendly governments. consider france: france and the US have been allied since the american revolution. thats an international relationship thats older than the country's independence! hmm, yeah we must not break with precedent.


Actually, the relationship between America and France has been strained at times during that time period, but overall you are correct. They saved us in the American Revolution, and we returned the favor by saving them in World War 2. That type of thing forges bonds not easily thrown aside.

Sure it is. They all brag about it.....

They brag about it, but the numbers themselves are not doctored for political purposes. But then again, it's pretty reasonable to brag because you get blamed when anything goes wrong even though you have no control over it.

Also, most of the DOL employees have been there for a while, and the risk of losing their job for falsifying data is far greater than their loyalty to a particular president.

If I hire someone, it is ME that deserves credit for doing so. But in this new age of economic idiocy, its the President who would get credit for "creating a job.".

Or be blamed for losing them...that's just as bad.

"All we need is morning bread lines, absurd government secrecy, spying on citizens, a foreign policy of militarily imposing our ideology on others, and soaring fuel prices...oh, shit. Scratch that. All we need is morning bread lines, and then welcome to the Politburo's America."

-The Rude One

"All we need is morning bread lines, absurd government secrecy, spying on citizens, a foreign policy of militarily imposing our ideology on others, and soaring fuel prices...oh, shit. Scratch that. All we need is morning bread lines, and then welcome to the Politburo's America."

-The Rude One

It's alright, there'll be no bread lines when conscription (or the "draft") comes back in when your men invade Iran. And die horribly.

But on the upside, there'll be no unemployment after that!

It's alright, there'll be no bread lines when conscription (or the "draft") comes back in when your men invade Iran. And die horribly.

But on the upside, there'll be no unemployment after that!

I got an idea. Draft all the people that agree with this war. I am sure you will have plenty of manpower after that. After all, if they say its a war worth fighting, why arent they? Sounds anti-American if you ask me.

I got an idea. Draft all the people that agree with this war. I am sure you will have plenty of manpower after that. After all, if they say its a war worth fighting, why arent they? Sounds anti-American if you ask me.

Hmm that's a fair enough point. Send a survey via post and if they say 'yes' then send them their draft cards.

4.7 Percent unemployment rate, millions of jobs created.
Presidential control over employment is close to nothing. Meanwhile presidential control over the federal budget is imense. The record deficits speak for themselves.

It's the government that causes the climate in which you can afford to hire people.

Maybe. Like LOCAL government.

And maybe, in a very broad and usually unintentional way, the fed.

But the President? No way. Blaming or blessing the President for me getting a job is near-total stupidity.

Every other US President has left office in time. I don't think that Bush has the guts to break that precedent.

A good example of Bush's "guts" was his willingness to stay in communication with the United States populace during the 9/11 attacks. For how many hours .... after enough time, someone had to say "must've been a communications malfunction with Air Force One." :mad:

It's insulting intellectually to attribute the health of the entire economy to the president.

If I hire someone, it is ME that deserves credit for doing so. But in this new age of economic idiocy, its the President who would get credit for "creating a job."

Stupid.

Absolutely correct. I employ 23 people. Thirteen of them full time and ten part timers. Should somone else get credit for the jobs I created? Hell NO!

A good example of Bush's "guts" was his willingness to stay in communication with the United States populace during the 9/11 attacks. For how many hours .... after enough time, someone had to say "must've been a communications malfunction with Air Force One." :mad:


Your talking about the military protocal that has been in place since the old Cold War days? There is a already predetermined response to an attack on the nation by a foreign aggressor. Been like that for ages.

Your talking about the military protocal that has been in place since the old Cold War days? There is a already predetermined response to an attack on the nation by a foreign aggressor. Been like that for ages.
Post it. I'm pretty sure you aren't talking about what i'm talking about.

Post it. I'm pretty sure you aren't talking about what i'm talking about.

Apparently not...:p

That's an artificially low unemployment rate, as it doesn't count all the underemployed people and those who have fallen off the unemployment rolls (which means they've been jobless for more than six months). But I guess that as long as he's not Fidel, he's a fucking hero, huh? :rolleyes:
What you mean Fidel Castro? Ya do know that he wasn't going to be a Communist supporter until we tried that invasion at the bay of pigs right? He was fighting to overthrough a U.S.A supported dictator.ZEIG BUSH! LoL. Hes a fascist. lol lmfaomfs!

Apparently not...:p
...well, go ahead, post it ...

Victory is mine! Muhahahahahha!

The real diffrence is, at least President George Bush will leave office in about 2 years when the term expires, compare that with Fidel, over 47 years and counting as dictator for life.

I rest my case.


Ok?

How does one that is force to leave by the Constitution compare with the longevity of Fidel?

...well, go ahead, post it ...


What I was talking about was the "classified plan" for the removal of the President from harms way. I am not going to even bother to try and look for it on the net. Not going to waste my time.

Schrandtopia']well, he graduated from Yale - I don't know what more you want

So?

I can show you a few MIT graduates that can barely clean themselves.....

What I was talking about was the "classified plan" for the removal of the President from harms way. I am not going to even bother to try and look for it on the net. Not going to waste my time.
Well, thanks for the discernment. I was talking about his complete lack of coherent communication to the public for around 7 hours during the attacks, for which an ADMINISTRATION SPOKESMAN said it was "a communications malfunction on Air Force One". It's very clear in the public record.


It wasn't a matter of him escaping - obviously it's quite important that the "ruler" maintains a tactical advantage of sorts in every situation, that's pretty elementary.
And that wasn't my point. But thanks for clarifying, in your fashion ... not that it really would've been that much work but, meh.

Schrandtopia']George Bush's America is a democracy, if the people didn't like him they would have gotten rid of him
Actually it's a Republic, meaning for one year it's a Democracy but the other 3 it's a Dictatorship. All you got to do is fool the populace for that one year and you own the nation.

This is bushanomics here. I'm bush like. This is the greatest president ever. He signed the no child left behind act to combat our stupid children, he signed to patriot act to combat terrorists. He liberated Iraq, and afganistan. He put millions of lazy people to work by entering those wars. He will soon invade iran, after a draft is passes congress to put the other 4.7% of our lazy country to work. If you dont like bush then you are unamerican. That is all we need to know about this topic.

This is bushanomics here. I'm bush like. This is the greatest president ever. He signed the no child left behind act to combat our stupid children, he signed to patriot act to combat terrorists. He liberated Iraq, and afganistan. He put millions of lazy people to work by entering those wars. He will soon invade iran, after a draft is passes congress to put the other 4.7% of our lazy country to work. If you dont like bush then you are unamerican. That is all we need to know about this topic.

Oh God, not again. This guy is a frickin' cartoon. He has to be pulling our collective leg.

I got an idea. Draft all the people that agree with this war. I am sure you will have plenty of manpower after that. After all, if they say its a war worth fighting, why arent they? Sounds anti-American if you ask me.

Operation Yellow Elephant (http://operationyellowelephant.blogspot.com/) is still alive and well!

Oh God, not again. This guy is a frickin' cartoon. He has to be pulling our collective leg.
Our collective third leg?
I think it's Venezcuba on tour, incognito.