NationStates Jolt Archive

Whats wrong with obtaining pleasure, so long as you dont hurt anyone (or if you do, they give you informed and free consent...as in certian sexual fetishes) Why does it seem that pleasure, enjoyment and freedom are demonized, and sacrafice, suffering and oppression are glorified.

*inspired by the Satanism thread, but not a copycat thread, its a tanget that is too far off to be be in that thread

nothing is wrong with obtaining pleasure, provided that the quest for it is not harmful to yourself or others.

Whats wrong with obtaining pleasure, so long as you dont hurt anyone (or if you do, they give you informed and free consent...as in certian sexual fetishes) Why does it seem that pleasure, enjoyment and freedom are demonized, and sacrafice, suffering and oppression are glorified.

*inspired by the Satanism thread, but not a copycat thread, its a tanget that is too far off to be be in that thread


"love is the law, love under will. If you harm no one, do what you will." The definition of will in this context is the will that leads you to your best self. The definition of harm is that which prevents you or the other from attaining the best self.

Otherwise, have your pleasure as you will.

what defines the best self? hmmm?

what defines the best self? hmmm?

That is best left to the individual. For me, the best or highest self, is the one that understands herself, can live with herself, has integrity, cares for others but does not interfere with others, takes responsibility for her actions, wants the best from others, but is not disappointed or judgemental if she does not get the best from others - and so on.

There is nothing wrong with it and to hell with anyone who says otherwise. As long as you don't hurt anyone else (you have every right to harm yourself) I say pursue pleasure in any form you wish, but also take responsibility for the consequences (i.e. cancer from smoking, STD's from unsafe sex, etcetera) as you cannot blame anyone but yourself (just because something is legal does not mean that you should abuse it)

nothing is wrong with obtaining pleasure, provided that the quest for it is not harmful to yourself or others.

I'm failing to see the problem with someone hurting his or herself if he or she hurts nobody else in the process.

I'm failing to see the problem with someone hurting his or herself if he or she hurts nobody else in the process.
it's not in your best interest to hurt yourself. Whatever pleasure you derive from harming yourself is shortlived.

I'm failing to see the problem with someone hurting his or herself if he or she hurts nobody else in the process.

It makes other people distressed, which is pretty bad.

I'm failing to see the problem with someone hurting his or herself if he or she hurts nobody else in the process.I'm taking a slightly different stance than Smunkeeville, in that I think people should be protected from hurting themselves (much) unless they actually intend it.
Many people screw themselves over royally due to ignorance and stupidity. And that's just kind of sad. (Like drug addiction, people mostly just stumble into a trap they can't get themselves out)

it's not in your best interest to hurt yourself. Whatever pleasure you derive from harming yourself is shortlived.

It's not in anyone's best interest for others to say what's good for them and what isn't.

It's not in anyone's best interest for others to say what's good for them and what isn't.
I didn't say that others should tell you what's in your best interest. It's all subjective anyway.

If, by harming yourself, you do harm to others through abuse, neglect, worry, or in any way making life worse for another who might care about you, then you need to either stop the behavior or cut off relations with that other (even the latter will likely cause considerable and even chronic harm).

I think that's what meant when "harm none" applies to yourself -- indirect harm to others who either depend upon or care about you.

It's not in anyone's best interest for others to say what's good for them and what isn't."Don't drink that, it's poisonous"

it's not in your best interest to hurt yourself. Whatever pleasure you derive from harming yourself is shortlived.

I guess it depends on what you mean by 'harm'. I have a friend who loves being spanked. Yes it 'hurts', and yes it IS 'short-lived'... but it only NEEDS to be short-lived, no?

While there is absolutely nothing wrong with pleasure, excess is always an issue. It's never healthy to eat excessively, become addicted to sex, etc. So long as it harms no one, and you are able to live a life that you want to live, then pleasure (physical or otherwise) shouldn't be a problem.

"Don't drink that, it's poisonous"

Yeah, that's what I meant. :rolleyes:

I guess it depends on what you mean by 'harm'. I have a friend who loves being spanked. Yes it 'hurts', and yes it IS 'short-lived'... but it only NEEDS to be short-lived, no?
sexual fetishes for the most part are not what I am talking about when I say harming yourself. spankings are not harmful, neither is S&M or even watersports..

Whats wrong with obtaining pleasure, so long as you dont hurt anyone (or if you do, they give you informed and free consent...as in certian sexual fetishes) Why does it seem that pleasure, enjoyment and freedom are demonized, and sacrafice, suffering and oppression are glorified.

*inspired by the Satanism thread, but not a copycat thread, its a tanget that is too far off to be be in that thread

Well, I don't think anyone is against people enjoying themselves - the critisism is mainly aimed at the instant-satisfaction mentality. To achieve, to be happy and feel fufilled often you have to sacrifice something, or suffer for your aims. An opressed man who suffers in order to free his people is more worthy of celebration than someone who eats fast food and then expects a quick-fix solution to give them the figure they want

sexual fetishes for the most part are not what I am talking about when I say harming yourself. spankings are not harmful, neither is S&M or even watersports..

Then we are agreed. Perhaps not quite what I would have expected you to say... but, I like the fact you constantly surprise me. :)

Some extreme S&M can leave you perminatly messed up. When inexpierienced, and sometimes even expierienced people engage in it they can go overboard and end up accidentally perminatly harming themselves or another. For example, I read on a site one time that there was some guy that had a fetish for being hung by his balls... as in, having a rope tied around them, and then lifted up in the air by them, and one time they ripped off. He was none to happy about it. It was of course, unintentional, however, people need to know their limits when they engage in activities of the sort, same with drugs, and exterme sports, and other risky behavior. It's fine to do drugs as long as you can handle it and dont go overboard and get yourself up a creek without a paddle. This I believe is where it comes most into play... people overestimate their limits, or gamble on something bad not happening because of the behavior they are engaged in, and it backfires, and next thing they know they're missing their little buddies, got aids, got their arm ripped off, fried their brain on acid, whatever.

Some extreme S&M can leave you perminatly messed up. When inexpierienced, and sometimes even expierienced people engage in it they can go overboard and end up accidentally perminatly harming themselves or another. For example, I read on a site one time that there was some guy that had a fetish for being hung by his balls... as in, having a rope tied around them, and then lifted up in the air by them, and one time they ripped off. He was none to happy about it. It was of course, unintentional, however, people need to know their limits when they engage in activities of the sort, -snip-.
OMG, didn't he notice something wasn't quite right before he ripped his nuts off?

geez, safe words people safe words.

For example, I read on a site one time that there was some guy that had a fetish for being hung by his balls... as in, having a rope tied around them, and then lifted up in the air by them, and one time they ripped off.
My word, ouch. :eek:

Whats wrong with obtaining pleasure, so long as you dont hurt anyone (or if you do, they give you informed and free consent...as in certian sexual fetishes)

Absolutely nothing, IMO. And a part of the people that say it's wrong are usually frustrated with their own life.