NationStates Jolt Archive

Let's suppose for a second that god existed. The kind of god portrayed in the bible, the bible is completely true (even the stuff that contradicts the other stuff)
Now don't start debating about wether this can be or not, just assume it is true, so if you believe in it or not, he exists.

Would you live your life as a christian and follow the 10 commandments?

Didn't we just have this thread?

Well, if its true, who's to say anyone knows? It may well be true right now, eh?

Didn't we just have this thread?

Dunno, I was just thinking about it and decided: hey this would make a nice thread.

(I chose no)

Dunno, I was just thinking about it and decided: hey this would make a nice thread.

(I chose no)

FYI, no won the last thread, too.

Let's suppose for a second that god existed. The kind of god portrayed in the bible, the bible is completely true (even the stuff that contradicts the other stuff)
Now don't start debating about wether this can be or not, just assume it is true, so if you believe in it or not, he exists.

Would you live your life as a christian and follow the 10 commandments?
No. Because Christians worship Jesus AND God as their gods. Why in hell would I want to worship God? Considerably, he's an asshole. He's supposed to control the weather and diseases, right? AND he's supposed to be "benevolent", right? Then why in HELL does he perform little tricks like the Bubonic Plague and Katrina? If anything I'd worship Jesus and Jesus alone, because Jesus actually followed what he preached with his whole "Peace, dude!" message.

FYI, no won the last thread, too.
:rolleyes:

In your opinion.

Let's suppose for a second that god existed. The kind of god portrayed in the bible, the bible is completely true (even the stuff that contradicts the other stuff)
Now don't start debating about wether this can be or not, just assume it is true, so if you believe in it or not, he exists.

Would you live your life as a christian and follow the 10 commandments?
If it's proven that God exists, why would I bother believing in him? I'd just know he exists. Now...pie.

If that was true I'd make it my mission in life to find God's divine genitals and give them a good kicking.

No. I wouldn't.

If god existed - which he doesn't - he would obviously have 'made' me. Therefore he would have to deal with me on my own terms.

Unless, he's an asshole.

No. I will be a virtuous pagan and hang out in limbo when I die. This is a good deal because if what the bible says is true, then everyone who tries to be christian must be burning in hell. Can't eat pork, can't wear clothes with more than one type of thread, mildew is evil. etc, etc. Even aborted fetuses go to hell due to original sin. Being a virtuous pagan is the way to go.

:rolleyes:

In your opinion.

It had a poll, too. No won.

Hell no. If God was shown to exist, I'd tell him to go fuck himself. He can spiritually blackmail other people, but I'm not gonna let some bastard in the sky tell me how to act. Besides which, if he did exist, I would think he was as evil, if not more evil than his satan figure, as he still wanted to force people to be "Good".

Then again, I don't get along well with authoritarians.

Depends. Either he's an angry, vengeful God, which lots of people with power want him to be (like the Southern Baptists, Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, and so on) or he's really a benevolent, tolerant God, which my Christian friends insist he is, and those other people are just wrong. In the first instance he's not the type of God I'd want to worship, but in the second instance I could see myself becoming a Christian. If he's somewhere in between I'd have to think about it.

It had a poll, too. No won.
I didn't see that. :p

Still, I don't feel that the 'yes' argument, to put it in such simple terms, was in anyway 'beaten'. If anything, the discussion showed that people tend to hate/dislike religion, as we can know nothing about God, so judgement on Him is impossible.

No, plain and simple. What I hold as valuable are the morals and ethics that guide life, not their origins. The way I see it, if your greatest desire in the world is to cook and someone gives you a bunch of pots, pans, and implements of destruction for food, the best way to say thank you is to create the most marvelous food the world has ever known. If all you did was tell the person how great they are because they gave you all this stuff, I think they would be disappointed in their decision.

Are we forgetting that as Christians we have to worship Jesus as well? Here's my attitude towards becoming a Christian: Buddy Jesus kills his dad, proclaims himself as the new god, HELL YES I'LL BE A CHRISTIAN! Until then, I don't want to worship two gods where one is a complete and total dick.

I didn't see that. :p

Still, I don't feel that the 'yes' argument, to put it in such simple terms, was in anyway 'beaten'. If anything, the discussion showed that people tend to hate/dislike religion, as we can know nothing about God, so judgement on Him is impossible.

I don't rember that thread. That's three we've had recently(including this one)?

Are we forgetting that as Christians we have to worship Jesus as well? Here's my attitude towards becoming a Christian: Buddy Jesus kills his dad, proclaims himself as the new god, HELL YES I'LL BE A CHRISTIAN! Until then, I don't want to worship two gods where one is a complete and total dick.

How about the holy spirit?
The church tells us that the three of them are undividable

I don't rember that thread. That's three we've had recently(including this one)?
If Fass is talking about the one I think he's talking about, it was along the lines of 'would you accept God if you met him,' or words to that effect.

How about the holy spirit?
The church tells us that the three of them are undividable
I've always wondered what the heck that is. Can you explain it to me? I think it's something like... Crap I don't know.

Ok, but say: you had to live according to his will or spend the afterlife in hell: would you?

I've always wondered what the heck that is. Can you explain it to me? I think it's something like... Crap I don't know.

me neither, I'm not a really religious type

If Fass is talking about the one I think he's talking about, it was along the lines of 'would you accept God if you met him,' or words to that effect.

Meh, I must have missed it.

If a god existed, then yes, it would be rational to accept that he exists.

But accepting the existence of a god does not necessarily imply Christianity.

If Christianity were true, then yes, it would be rational to be a Christian.

However, there is no god and Christianity is blatantly false (Jesus of Nazareth was a worthless socialist!)

I've always wondered what the heck that is. Can you explain it to me? I think it's something like... Crap I don't know.

One of my primary school teachers once told us the Holy Spirirt was the love between Jesus and God. She was one damned religious woman, we had to say a decade of the rosary every day.

Ok, but say: you had to live according to his will or spend the afterlife in hell: would you?
Wait, I would have to do whatever GOD says or whatever JESUS says? If it's whatever God says, fuck it, I'm going to hell. If it's whatever Jesus says, "Yes, master Buddy Jesus!"

Ok, but say: you had to live according to his will or spend the afterlife in hell: would you?

Hell is a state of mind, not a place. The secret to being happy is not to live a life free of suffering, but to live a life that transcends suffering. There are plenty of people throughout history that chose to endure lots of suffering rather than have a life of ease and they are respected and admired for it.

One of my primary school teachers once told us the Holy Spirirt was the love between Jesus and God. She was one damned religious woman, we had to say a decade of the rosary every day.
Soooo, I suppose up in Britian there's nothing keeping religion out of schools? Feel sorry for you British non-christian school children.

Wow, I'm actually quite pleased: a lot of people choose to live their life based on their own standards and putting up with the suffering instead of just following someone elses will.

Would you live your life as a christian and follow the 10 commandments?

Depends if God can give me good reasons to do so. My primary problem with the morals and ethics in the Bible is that their underlying principles are not shared; which means I cannot objectively determine if they are better than my own. "They are better cause I said so" simply doesn't cut it for me; though Him being God and all I would be willing to listen to what He has to say.
Agreeing however is another matter.

Well, basically, he is divine. The only god you should worship, the only god worth worshipping, and, what's the purpose of the Bible??*:confused: :)




*I'm asking you.

and, what's the purpose of the Bible??:confused: :)

Providing us with a decent supply of toilet paper ?

Would you live your life as a christian and follow the 10 commandments?

I would sooner join the Republican Party.

welll

i answered yes

but really its a great big can of worms now isnt it?

the bible is utterly true....

do i become a roman catholic? maybe one of those radical pre-vatican2 catholics?

greek orthodox?

coptic?

lutheran?

baptist?

quaker?

what about the mormons, christian scientists and jehovas witnesses? would they be good enough?

since jesus came to save the jews, should i convert to judaism in order to more pefectly worship jesus?

do i obey all the kosher laws?

do i have to give up shrimp??

i was baptised as a baby, do i need to redo that as an adult for it to count?

do i really have to sell everything i have and give the proceeds to the poor?

what about feeding the hungry, visitng the sick, housing the homeless?

and a thousand other problems

Hell is a state of mind, not a place. The secret to being happy is not to live a life free of suffering, but to live a life that transcends suffering. There are plenty of people throughout history that chose to endure lots of suffering rather than have a life of ease and they are respected and admired for it.

The notion that suffering is good in and of itself and therefore desirable for its own sake is the most ridiculous idea ever developed.

Sure; Christianity is fun!


Leviticus 20:13 "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads." (New International Version)

Deuteronomy 22:28-29 "If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives." (New International Version)

1 Timothy 1:1-2 "All who are under the yoke of slavery should consider their masters worthy of full respect, so that God's name and our teaching may not be slandered. Those who have believing masters are not to show less respect for them because they are brothers. Instead, they are to serve them even better, because those who benefit from their service are believers, and dear to them. These are the things you are to teach and urge on them." (New International Version)

1 Corinthians 11:3-7 "Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head. And every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is just as though her head were shaved. If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off; and if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut or shaved off, she should cover her head. A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man." (New International Version)


(you did say everything in it was correct, no?)

Let's suppose for a second that god existed. The kind of god portrayed in the bible, the bible is completely true (even the stuff that contradicts the other stuff)
Now don't start debating about wether this can be or not, just assume it is true, so if you believe in it or not, he exists.

Would you live your life as a christian and follow the 10 commandments?

This wins a prize as possibly the stupidest question I've ever seen...even in this forum.

And that's saying something.

Sure; Christianity is fun!


Leviticus 20:13 "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads." (New International Version)

Deuteronomy 22:28-29 "If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives." (New International Version)

1 Timothy 1:1-2 "All who are under the yoke of slavery should consider their masters worthy of full respect, so that God's name and our teaching may not be slandered. Those who have believing masters are not to show less respect for them because they are brothers. Instead, they are to serve them even better, because those who benefit from their service are believers, and dear to them. These are the things you are to teach and urge on them." (New International Version)

1 Corinthians 11:3-7 "Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head. And every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is just as though her head were shaved. If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off; and if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut or shaved off, she should cover her head. A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man." (New International Version)


(you did say everything in it was correct, no?)

Wait, so Christianity SUPPORTS slavery? WTF OVER?!?!?! And it supports sexism? WTF OVER?!?!?!

Wait, so Christianity SUPPORTS slavery? WTF OVER?!?!?! And it supports sexism? WTF OVER?!?!?!

Hey, that's the tip of the iceberg. There's some really fun stuff in there, and not all of it is Old Testament, as you can see. :)

Speaking of which, can anyone point me to the bit where Jesus says to throw all of the old laws away?

Wait, so Christianity SUPPORTS slavery? WTF OVER?!?!?! And it supports sexism? WTF OVER?!?!?!

And considers it appropiate for a raped woman to be forced to live together with her rapist for the rest of her life.
As I said: I would like God to explain his morals before I decide to adopt them.

And considers it appropiate for a raped woman to be forced to live together with her rapist for the rest of her life.
As I said: I would like God to explain his morals before I decide to adopt them.

Oooh, you're in trouble.

Deuteronomy 29:19-20 "When such a person hears the words of this oath, he invokes a blessing on himself and therefore thinks, "I will be safe, even though I persist in going my own way." This will bring disaster on the watered land as well as the dry. The LORD will never be willing to forgive him; his wrath and zeal will burn against that man. All the curses written in this book will fall upon him, and the LORD will blot out his name from under heaven." (New International Version)

The notion that suffering is good in and of itself and therefore desirable for its own sake is the most ridiculous idea ever developed.
Well, suffering is not good and we can agree there. The trick is to be able to differentiate between suffering and the conditions that cause suffering. Conditions in and of themselves do not have any suffering or joy in them. It's only when people experience these conditions that the suffering or joy part comes in.

And considers it appropiate for a raped woman to be forced to live together with her rapist for the rest of her life.
As I said: I would like God to explain his morals before I decide to adopt them.
What they mean by that is statutory (sp?) rape. Not rape.

What they mean by that is statutory (sp?) rape. Not rape.

One does wonder why the translators did not do their job better if that truly is the case. I will therefor consider your statement to be an interpretation of the holy scripture, and wait for God to explain what He actually meant.

The fact remains that even if it is merely intercourse with a minor, the "marry and never divorce" part is still a sickening display of disregard for the wishes of the girl.

What they mean by that is statutory (sp?) rape. Not rape.

I don't think so.

Deuteronomy 22:28-29 "If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days." (King James Version)

Another version, that mentions "lay hold on her". Doesn't sound like statutory rape to me, and there's no reference to the age of the woman there.

Let's suppose for a second that god existed. The kind of god portrayed in the bible, the bible is completely true (even the stuff that contradicts the other stuff)
Now don't start debating about wether this can be or not, just assume it is true, so if you believe in it or not, he exists.

Would you live your life as a christian and follow the 10 commandments?
Xers follow the 10 demandments? I thought those were old testament, and according to the xers, the OT doesn't matter anymore.

But wait--there are xers who want the 10 demandments in courtrooms AND believe that OT doesn't matter anymore.

Oh well--never let it be said that the xers are consistent.

Xers follow the 10 demandments?

Only when it's convenient.

I don't think so.

Deuteronomy 22:28-29 "If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days." (King James Version)

Another version, that mentions "lay hold on her". Doesn't sound like statutory rape to me, and there's no reference to the age of the woman there.
It didn't say that in the "International" version! But yeah, I suppose that does mean "rape". That's moronic. About as moronic as Muslim fathers killing their daughters if their daughters are raped. Seriously, giving a rapists victim to the rapist as a WIFE?!?!?! God has a very sick sense of humor. I like it. ;)

Yes because God would be an evil megalomaniac bastard who wouldn't be able to be overthrown so I'd be scared shitless.

Depends. Either he's an angry, vengeful God, which lots of people with power want him to be (like the Southern Baptists, Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, and so on) or he's really a benevolent, tolerant God, which my Christian friends insist he is, and those other people are just wrong. In the first instance he's not the type of God I'd want to worship, but in the second instance I could see myself becoming a Christian. If he's somewhere in between I'd have to think about it.
And if he's a benevelont, tolerant god, don't you think he's look at the history of the church and say something like "dude, you managed to live a decent life in spite of all those douchebags who claimed to be worshiping me" and reward you all the same?

No. I would try to kill this "god"

You know the funny thing, as other people have stated, is that whether or not you live a full, 'virtuous', Christian life, is that you are still damned with Original Sin. However, I have posed this question in Bible class, and had no sufficient answer to change my atheist ways.

If Jesus died on the cross for ALL of our sins, those past as well as those to come, then would he not have died for Original Sin as well?

I just see this as one of many flaws in this religion's 'logic'.

Ergo, noone is going to heaven, and the 'fact' that there is a God is nulled anyway.

You know the funny thing, as other people have stated, is that whether or not you live a full, 'virtuous', Christian life, is that you are still damned with Original Sin. However, I have posed this question in Bible class, and had no sufficient answer to change my atheist ways.

If Jesus died on the cross for ALL of our sins, those past as well as those to come, then would he not have died for Original Sin as well?

I just see this as one of many flaws in this religion's 'logic'.

Ergo, noone is going to heaven, and the 'fact' that there is a God is nulled anyway.

But supposing the Christian god DID exist, and all these contradictions didn't kill him (surprise, surprise), then would you live your life by the Ten Commandments?

My answer it no. I live my life by my own standards, and the commandments don't dictate what I do. If there truly was a heaven and hell, then I should be judged on how good a person I've been, not whether I wanted to worship a god or not.

But supposing the Christian god DID exist, and all these contradictions didn't kill him (surprise, surprise), then would you live your life by the Ten Commandments?

My answer it no. I live my life by my own standards, and the commandments don't dictate what I do. If there truly was a heaven and hell, then I should be judged on how good a person I've been, not whether I wanted to worship a god or not.

But that's what I'm saying. It doesn't matter if you follow the Commandments or not, you are going to Hell because of the theory of Original Sin (which is being 'suppose'd as true). SO eff that. ¡Viva la revolución!

But that's what I'm saying. It doesn't matter if you follow the Commandments or not, you are going to Hell because of the theory of Original Sin (which is being 'suppose'd as true). SO eff that. ¡Viva la revolución!

But according to the Christians, Jesus died for our sin. So doesn't that mean we can sin all we want and still not get condemned? I mean, not sinning would be like not appreciating Jesus's sacrifice. :p

But according to the Christians, Jesus died for our sin. So doesn't that mean we can sin all we want and still not get condemned? I mean, not sinning would be like not appreciating Jesus's sacrifice. :p

There's the flaw. Point blank.

So screw sin. Live it up! Do whatever you like, because you're condemned to Hell anyways! Muahahahahaha!

*cough*

There's the flaw. Point blank.

So screw sin. Live it up! Do whatever you like, because you're condemned to Hell anyways! Muahahahahaha!

*cough*

NO! *beats over the head with a stick* You weren't listening. It means we can sin as much as we want and still get into heaven!

NO! *beats over the head with a stick* You weren't listening. It means we can sin as much as we want and still get into heaven!

NO! Because according the The Book, you ALWAYS have Original Sin!

*beats over the head with felled hippie tree*

NO! Because according the The Book, you ALWAYS have Original Sin!

*beats over the head with felled hippie tree*

But Jesus died for it! You're saying we still have the goddamn original sin? Screw that. *goes off to worship Buddha*

*beats over the head with a barrel of oil* (If you're going to use my weapons, I can use yours.)

But Jesus died for it! You're saying we still have the goddamn original sin? Screw that. *goes off to worship Buddha*

*beats over the head with a barrel of oil* (If you're going to use my weapons, I can use yours.)

Precisely. Now YOU see the light. :D

Oh blast you.

Precisely. Now YOU see the light. :D

Oh blast you.

AHHHHH! Natural light! It burns! IT BUUUUUUURNS!

teehee :D

AHHHHH! Natural light! It burns! IT BUUUUUUURNS!

teehee :D

Yay vampires!

AHHHHH! Natural light! It burns! IT BUUUUUUURNS!

teehee :D

Nay Lady, the aura of the divine God...you burn in its presence.

Nay Lady, the aura of the divine God...you burn in its presence.

pfft. I'm burning in the aura of Buddha, thank you very much. He's condemning me for eating meat...and drinking blood like a vampire. :p

pfft. I'm burning in the aura of Buddha, thank you very much. He's condemning me for eating meat...and drinking blood like a vampire. :p

*begins to back away slowly....*

*FLEE*

*begins to back away slowly....*

*FLEE*

People tend do that that a lot 'round you La Dame?

People tend do that that a lot 'round you La Dame?

No, just her. She knows me too well not not get creeped out. :p

But seriously, kat, you know I have no vampiric tendencies.

No, just her. She knows me too well not not get creeped out. :p

But seriously, kat, you know I have no vampiric tendencies.

Not many. But that makes me re-think the whole baying at the moon thing...:D

*sweatdrop*

Not many. But that makes me re-think the whole baying at the moon thing...:D

*sweatdrop*

Baying at the moon? What art thou talking about? I am no wolf!

Baying at the moon? What art thou talking about? I am no wolf!

Indeed. So that makes me think you like the night a little too well...:P

Baying at the moon? What art thou talking about? I am no wolf!

I am! Well...not really... Wish I was though ^_^.

Indeed. So that makes me think you like the night a little too well...:P

Oh, just the ability to bask in its darkness and all that. And that the moon's a lot prettier than the sun. Nothing truly disturbing. :p

Oh, just the ability to bask in its darkness and all that. And that the moon's a lot prettier than the sun. Nothing truly disturbing. :p

The Lady has it right...See, God was wrong for creating day...He did it to mock us...

The Bastard.

The Lady has it right...See, God was wrong for creating day...He did it to mock us...

The Bastard.

There there...stop being so bitter. God likes day, and since we're not god's children, we like the night. See? That made perfect logical sense.

There there...stop being so bitter. God likes day, and since we're not god's children, we like the night. See? That made perfect logical sense.

Yay logical sense!

There there...stop being so bitter. God likes day, and since we're not god's children, we like the night. See? That made perfect logical sense.

But if the theory of God is true, then we are all God's children, and we are all brothers and sisters...

Oh dear God. I'm dating my brother. *retches*

But if the theory of God is true, then we are all God's children, and we are all brothers and sisters...

Oh dear God. I'm dating my brother. *retches*

But we ARE all related even according to evolution. So either way, you're reproducing with one of your cousins. Magpie shall be an inbreed! :eek: :p

But we ARE all related even according to evolution. So either way, you're reproducing with one of your cousins. Magpie shall be an inbreed! :eek: :p

That's just...

Never say that again. Ever.

That's just...

Never say that again. Ever.

But but but...

aww...:(

btw, congrats on your >100 posts. You are not past the point of no returns. *maniacal laughter*

But but but...

aww...:(

btw, congrats on your >100 posts. You are not past the point of no returns. *maniacal laughter*

W00T!

I will get to 1000 one day. I swear it.

W00T!

I will get to 1000 one day. I swear it.

I don't doubt you...

10 years later...

:p

I don't doubt you...

10 years later...

:p

Oh hush. I shall. More thread-bashing is in order...:D

Oh hush. I shall. More thread-bashing is in order...:D

Well, at the rate you're going right now, you shall get a reputation as an uber spammer too...thanks to moi. :p

Well, at the rate you're going right now, you shall get a reputation as an uber spammer too...thanks to moi. :p

Excellent. *taps fingertips together in a manical fashion*

if it is all true the only way to truely know is for god to come tell us himself. at which point many people would probably be scared shitless and would do anything he was to say. so for those saying no, im calling your bluff

What they mean by that is statutory (sp?) rape. Not rape.

I don't know WHERE you got that idea....

Let's suppose for a second that god existed. The kind of god portrayed in the bible, the bible is completely true (even the stuff that contradicts the other stuff)
Now don't start debating about wether this can be or not, just assume it is true, so if you believe in it or not, he exists.

Would you live your life as a christian and follow the 10 commandments?

The Ten Commandments are for the Hebrews. They are not 'Christian'.

Hell no. If God was shown to exist, I'd tell him to go fuck himself. He can spiritually blackmail other people, but I'm not gonna let some bastard in the sky tell me how to act. Besides which, if he did exist, I would think he was as evil, if not more evil than his satan figure, as he still wanted to force people to be "Good".

Then again, I don't get along well with authoritarians.

I agree, but it is more succinctly put forth:

"I'm not going to listen to an invisible parent figure, shaking his finger at you from eons ago, saying- do it...do it and I'll fucking spank you!"- Loki, Angel of Death

:rolleyes:

In your opinion.
But- its Fass! Hes always right! :p

Let's suppose for a second that god existed.

OK. The second if over. Can I start laughing now?

The kind of god portrayed in the bible,

Which bible? A moody vengefull prick like the old testament? Or a namby-pamby prick like the New Testament? Or the sort of rhetoric from the Koran who also lay claim to being the word of the same God. Please deifine "Bible".

the bible is completely true (even the stuff that contradicts the other stuff)

So, the word of God is contradictory - and you want to know if we'll "follow it"? If I run into a situation where there seems to be multiple correct answers, am I getting my ass smited for not figuring out what the rules are?


Now don't start debating about wether this can be or not, just assume it is true, so if you believe in it or not, he exists.

Assume which? That a moody prick who can't make up his mind created the world? Well, that would explain a lot of things.... like platypuses. Besides, I'm married. Four days out of every month I KNOW such beings exist!

Would you live your life as a christian and follow the 10 commandments?

Living "as a Christian" in what sense? The United Church sense? Or the Pat Robertson sense?




What a stupid question: If things were KNOWN to be a certain way, would you change your life accordingly? Well Duh!


But probably not in the way you expect, or even as much as you expect. Wasting Sunday morning comparing wardrobes with my neighbours is still a dumb-assed notion, as is the concept that a) such a being requires my telling him how fucking marvelous he is, or that b) that praying to him to change his divine plans would be met with anything other than derision. After all - he's GOD! By definition his plan is already perfect.

So how much would my life change? Errr.... don't kill, don';t steal, don't fuck the neighbour's wife, yadda yadda yadda. Well, I don't do those things anyway. So I guess I must already be living "like a Christian", albeit with the benefit of not having my pocket picked by the tithe each week.


but at least all of the fricken' pedophiles would be out of a job. PEople wouldnt NEED to go to priests to have their faith reinforced. Because with a knon fact, faith is no longer a requirement. I mean, you don't see skydivers constantly going to the group leader to get reassurance about the accelleration rate due to gravity do you? Nope. Why? Because reassurance is unneccessary in the face of proven facts.

The death of organized religion? Might be worth it if His exisance WAS a proven fact just to solve all of the misery that they have caused......


Anyway, as mentioned: Stupid question.

Suppose dragons were real. Would you want one? Does it matter? Dragons don't exist. :)

If he turned out to be a good deity, and could explain certain (many) things, then yes I would follow him. However, even if he does exist, which I severely doubt, I can't see how the questions I have would be explicable or how certain actions attributed to the Christian deity could be justifiable.

Let's suppose for a second that god existed. The kind of god portrayed in the bible, the bible is completely true (even the stuff that contradicts the other stuff)
Now don't start debating about wether this can be or not, just assume it is true, so if you believe in it or not, he exists.

Would you live your life as a christian and follow the 10 commandments?

The Christian God definitely exists, as long as his believers exist. You can't say believe it or not, he exists. If I believe, he will exist. If not, he won't. God is a socio-emergent system.

If I believe that he exists the way the Bible says, I will be a Christian, of course. That's why billions of people are in organized religions, right?

Honestly, I’d be scared to refuse conversion. The Christian God is one bad mother fucker.

The Christian God is one bad mother fucker.

If by bad mother fucker you mean twisted, intolerant, sadistic asshole, then I agree. And they seriously think Satan is the bad guy in that story!?

The Christian God definitely exists, as long as his believers exist. You can't say believe it or not, he exists. If I believe, he will exist. If not, he won't. God is a socio-emergent system.

If I believe that he exists the way the Bible says, I will be a Christian, of course. That's why billions of people are in organized religions, right?

You can't believe a hamburger into being yet you can conjure God? Cracked out.

You can't believe a hamburger into being yet you can conjure God? Cracked out.

A hamburger is not a socio-emergent system, my friend. A thousand monkeys on a thousand typewriters is.

Seriously though, if you have enough people believing in something, they can make it happen. Which is why religious groups are infiltrating into the sciences and technologies, where they can turn people who actually make things happen to their side.

And speaking as a 19th-century-styled science-worshipper, that sucks.

A hamburger is not a socio-emergent system, my friend. A thousand monkeys on a thousand typewriters is.

Seriously though, if you have enough people believing in something, they can make it happen. Which is why religious groups are infiltrating into the sciences and technologies, where they can turn people who actually make things happen to their side.

And speaking as a 19th-century-styled science-worshipper, that sucks.

What do you mean by socio-emergent system?

No, I would not. Christianity as an organized religion is, in all of the cases I've witnessed or studied, pretty fucking far away from what it says in the bible. Having actually sat down and read large parts of the book in question, I'd say that I'm one up on a lot of the christians out there.

And how could the parts that contradict each other be true? Even theoretically?

What do you mean by socio-emergent system?

Emergence is what happens when a system is complex enough to exhibit new traits not demonstrated in its components. For example, cell components like proteins and DNA can show binding interactions, enzymatic activity and so on, but only at the cell level is there a trait called "alive". Similarly, "cognition" cannot occur at the single cell level, nor can "community spirit" reside in a person.

Components do contribute characteristics to the whole system, but at that higher level, it "means" something else. This interpretation is very interaction driven rather than property driven.

Gods are an emergent property of a large group of believers. Whether they exist independent or dependent of their followers, because their followers are "physical", they can exert a real social force. Like feeding the poor. Or starting a war.

Christian just usnt for me.. I'lll stay atheist/agnostc..

One of my primary school teachers once told us the Holy Spirirt was the love between Jesus and God. She was one damned religious woman, we had to say a decade of the rosary every day.Soooo, I suppose up in Britian there's nothing keeping religion out of schools? Feel sorry for you British non-christian school children.He's in the Republic of Ireland, as clearly stated in his location stamp. People died for their belief in Irish independence from Britain.

As far as the point of the thread goes, no chance. I decide on my own views and morality, and won't have someone telling me what they are regardless of his position as the most powerful entity known to mankind. Frankly, I think that the God depicted by the Judeo-Christian faiths is a moron anyway.

Suppose dragons were real. Would you want one? Does it matter? Dragons don't exist. :)

Okay, yes, yes, and aww...

Let's suppose for a second that god existed. The kind of god portrayed in the bible, the bible is completely true (even the stuff that contradicts the other stuff)
Now don't start debating about wether this can be or not, just assume it is true, so if you believe in it or not, he exists.

Would you live your life as a christian and follow the 10 commandments?
Hell no. The god described in the Bible is hideous. No threats or bribes could make me worship that kind of jackass.

if it is all true the only way to truely know is for god to come tell us himself. at which point many people would probably be scared shitless and would do anything he was to say. so for those saying no, im calling your bluff
I considered that possibility, and here is my response to it. God is all knowing. God knows when I'm just paying lip service out of fear of punishment. In the Bible people are punished for that by God. As such, I really have nothing to lose by acting according to my real beliefs, rather than out of fear of this omnipotent dicator of the universe.

I would like to think that when and if I ever meet this "God", I'll have the guts to ask him the important questions. Why do bad things happen to good people? What possible point could earthly evil serve? I'd let Him explain Himself to me, but ultimately, if I found His answers unsatisfactory, what can I do? He knows I don't really believe He's in the right.

I mean if God exists, and is truly omnipotent, we have to assume that all forms of earthly evil are His responsibility. If He exists, God has singlehandedly killed more people throughout history than the rest of humanity combined.

While I would hear him out, I rather suspect I'd be willingly seeking out Satan in an effort to join his armies and at least be cast into Hell for trying to make the world a better place, rather than get cast into Hell for thinking about how fucked up God's world is.
I agree, but it is more succinctly put forth:

"I'm not going to listen to an invisible parent figure, shaking his finger at you from eons ago, saying- do it...do it and I'll fucking spank you!"- Loki, Angel of Death
I always felt so bad for Loki. As soon as he realised what was at stake, he tried to do the right thing, and stop Bartlby's insane plan, but because God had to prove her point, his soul was still cast into the pit. If that was the God we're talking about, screw her. She had the power to make things right for Loki, and didn't. One good man being damned proves God's supposed benevolence is a load of crap.

No. Because Christians worship Jesus AND God as their gods. Why in hell would I want to worship God? Considerably, he's an asshole. He's supposed to control the weather and diseases, right? AND he's supposed to be "benevolent", right? Then why in HELL does he perform little tricks like the Bubonic Plague and Katrina? If anything I'd worship Jesus and Jesus alone, because Jesus actually followed what he preached with his whole "Peace, dude!" message.

Can't be said any better than that my friend

No.

What do atheists have to look forward to when they die? Eternal nothingness? Atleast become Buddhist or the such and have something hopeful to live for.

What do atheists have to look forward to when they die? Eternal nothingness? Atleast become Buddhist or the such and have something hopeful to live for.

I have my life to live for.

Let's suppose for a second that god existed. The kind of god portrayed in the bible, the bible is completely true (even the stuff that contradicts the other stuff)
Now don't start debating about wether this can be or not, just assume it is true, so if you believe in it or not, he exists.

Would you live your life as a christian and follow the 10 commandments?

I'd rather go to hell.

What do atheists have to look forward to when they die? Eternal nothingness? Atleast become Buddhist or the such and have something hopeful to live for.
Why should I look forward to something after my death? Do you really hate your life so much that you have to cling to the idea that you'll get something better after you die? Or are you so greedy that you cannot be satisfied with the wonderful reality that surrounds you?

Personally, I've got a lifetime of living to do. That's more than enough for me.

What do atheists have to look forward to when they die? Eternal nothingness? Atleast become Buddhist or the such and have something hopeful to live for.

That qualifies high in the running as the dumbest reason to become religious. Unfortunately, it is a very pervasive one. Rather than do the best they can with this life, some folks insist on inventing a magical fairy in a big white beard sitting in the clouds who is in charge of rewarding you in a hypothetical next life of which there is no evidence at all. Pretty thin soup, if you ask me.

I am happier finding my own joy now, and if that next life happens, I will find my own joy there too. And if God does exist, and if She cares at all what we do (and there is precious little reason to believe that, either) then I can only hope that She will appreciate that I lived my life to the fullest and did what I thought was right. If She doesn't, She is not a god I am interested in worshipping anyway.

So no, I will take a pass on Christianity, regardless.

I'm not a christian but I still follow the ten commandments. It's called being a good person. The only reason I'm not a christian is that I don't beleive in Christ, well, actually...I don't know about Christ but I can't really say I follow him.

I'm not a christian but I still follow the ten commandments. It's called being a good person. The only reason I'm not a christian is that I don't beleive in Christ, well, actually...I don't know about Christ but I can't really say I follow him.
Wait, you're not a Christian, but you worship the Christian God (Commandments 1 and 2, I believe) and observe His holy day (Commandment 4)?

Wait, you're not a Christian, but you worship the Christian God (Commandments 1 and 2, I believe) and observe His holy day (Commandment 4)?
I was going to make that comment myself, but then I realised he might be jewish.

I was going to make that comment myself, but then I realised he might be jewish.
Point taken. Though I assumed that when he said he "wasn't sure" about Christ that probably indicated he wasn't a Jew. My understanding is that most Jews are pretty certain that Jesus was not the messiah :).

Point taken. Though I assumed that when he said he "wasn't sure" about Christ that probably indicated he wasn't a Jew. My understanding is that most Jews are pretty certain that Jesus was not the messiah :).

Anyone who has ever REALLY read the Old Testament SHOULD have questions, at least, about HOW Jesus could possibly be Messiah.

No. Because Christians worship Jesus AND God as their gods. Why in hell would I want to worship God? Considerably, he's an asshole. He's supposed to control the weather and diseases, right? AND he's supposed to be "benevolent", right? Then why in HELL does he perform little tricks like the Bubonic Plague and Katrina? If anything I'd worship Jesus and Jesus alone, because Jesus actually followed what he preached with his whole "Peace, dude!" message.
I don't worship Jesus as a "god". He is God's son, not a god.

How would anyone know that this god existed in this hypothetical scenario? I mean, really, how would that be any different than now.

What do atheists have to look forward to when they die? Eternal nothingness? Atleast become Buddhist or the such and have something hopeful to live for.

Funny thing is - most of the people I've known that were really 'about' living their lives... have been Atheist, or at least skeptical.

And, most of the people I have known that have been older Christians... have complained of being bored, etc...

One wonders... if they hate life so much... why do they want it to keep going forever?

I always felt so bad for Loki. As soon as he realised what was at stake, he tried to do the right thing, and stop Bartlby's insane plan, but because God had to prove her point, his soul was still cast into the pit. If that was the God we're talking about, screw her. She had the power to make things right for Loki, and didn't. One good man being damned proves God's supposed benevolence is a load of crap.
But in that movie, hell was the only place for Loki to go. If he was taken back into heaven, then the universe goes away and he couldn't stay on earth.

I always felt so bad for Loki. As soon as he realised what was at stake, he tried to do the right thing, and stop Bartlby's insane plan, but because God had to prove her point, his soul was still cast into the pit. If that was the God we're talking about, screw her. She had the power to make things right for Loki, and didn't. One good man being damned proves God's supposed benevolence is a load of crap.

Don't you know the story of Job?

A God that fucks with his followers is not a God I want to worship. Sorry.

But in that movie, hell was the only place for Loki to go. If he was taken back into heaven, then the universe goes away and he couldn't stay on earth.
Why couldn't he stay on earth? Was resurections somehow beyond the scope of Omnipotence?
Don't you know the story of Job?

A God that fucks with his followers is not a God I want to worship. Sorry.
I did know that story. Job was apparently one of God's most faithful followers, and for that reason his entire family was murdered, all his wealth was lost, and he was stricken with sickness. The moral of the story seems to be:
"Keep your head down, because if God notices you, it'll be bad, no matter what He notices you for."

Not exactly the sort of God I'm interested in dealing with either, hence my posted answer.