NationStates Jolt Archive

A lot of what is said to me in my daily life has got me thinking, should teachers be held to higher moral standards than other people?

I mean, people are genuinely shocked to discover that I think it is perfectly acceptable for me to wear a mini-skirt out on weekends (a decent length one, about 6 inches above the knee), drink alcohol, and go clubbing. They seem most particularly surprised when I flirt with guys and get phone numbers etc. The refrain is; "But what will your students say?" As if I go to school and detail my weekend activities to my students.

Should my occupation limit my activities outside of school hours?

As long as you are not taking it into School with you, Go for it!

I would only worry if you hung about drunk and drugged in Pizza Hut or Macky D's. and the children might see you....

But otherwise, you are a human being...I don't think that my kids teachers don't have a real life...why the hell shouldn't you?

No! It's none of anyone else's business what you do in your free time! It's not like your students (I'm assuming here that they are underage) should be out at clubs etc anyway...

Should my occupation limit my activities outside of school hours?Yes, up to a point.
But there is nothing wrong with having a life. Far from it infact. (Having no life is a much worse example to set for students).
It'd be a different story if you were doing drugs, prostituting yourself and knocking over seven-elevens in your spare time. But going out and have some fun is a far cry from debauchery and morally reprehensible behaviour..

:cool: I'd love to have you as a teacher and meet you at clubs:p

If I were still a high school student, I certainly wouldn't mind you wearing a mini-skirt to class.

:p

Uh, anyway. No, you only give your employer a certain amount of hours in a week. What you do with the remainder is completely your business.

It'd be a different story if you were doing drugs, prostituting yourself and knocking over seven-elevens in your spare time. But going out and have some fun is a far cry from debauchery and morally reprehensible behaviour..

That's all illegal no matter what your profession is anyway, so that point is moot.

Should my occupation limit my activities outside of school hours?

I know teachers aren't supposed to be able to bring topics outside of a subject into the classroom (e.g. politics into literature, religion into science, etc, etc). Not sure what is the case for outside the class but with the students.

For the rest, seems to be fine.

"Should teachers be held to higher moral standards than other people?"

Perks of the trade I guess.

The thing is you are supposed to be a role model for your students - so your actions will be judged all the time(your a girl too - makes it even worse when it comes to moral behaviour).

Is that fair? Not really, but what can you do:p

Cheers and dont think too much about it.

That's all illegal no matter what your profession is anyway, so that point is moot.That depends on where you live. Certain drugs are legal here for recreational use, as is prostitution. Robbing places isn't of course, but still, two out of three..
And there are more borderline scenarios of course..

That depends on where you live. Certain drugs are legal here for recreational use, as is prostitution. Robbing places isn't of course, but still, two out of three..
And there are more borderline scenarios of course..
True enough, but I believe that if drugs were legal, there is no problem with teachers using them in their spare time.

(unless they're dependent on them - but that extends to alcohol anyway.)

Prostitution, eh - what they don't know won't hurt 'em.

Do what you think is best for you. If wearing a miniskirt on the weekend could result in you losing your job then you would have to decide if it was worth it. While I think that would be grossly unfair and something to be fought about, it would still be your decision.

A couple of generations ago female teachers could be sacked from becoming pregnant. And this was married female teachers. (Actually, in the U.S. perhaps they can still sack you for this.)

But personally I don't see what clothes you wear or whether or not you wear clothes has to do with morality. If someone thinks you shouldn't be a teacher because you're a nudist on weekends then the problem exists in their head and not reality. It has no bearing on your teaching.

What you do (as long as its legal) on your own time is no buisness of your employers. None. Next thing you know, they will be telling you what church to go to.

Should my occupation limit my activities outside of school hours?
Not at all.
I'm only restricted as to what I do when I'm punched in or in uniform while on company property.
Since I doubt your paid by the hour, you should only limit your actions while at school functions, and obviously while at work.
Its always a good thing to keep everything legal.

A couple of generations ago female teachers could be sacked from becoming pregnant. And this was married female teachers. (Actually, in the U.S. perhaps they can still sack you for this.)
No, not at all. Pregnant teachers are not forced to have an abortion, nor are they fired in the United States of America.

Should my occupation limit my activities outside of school hours?

Only in the way you should not do things that you consider to be wrong.

Oh look, I don't do anything illegal, and neither do a majority of the teachers I work with. i was just curious, because the reaction from some people in the community appears to be "BUT you're, you're A TEACHER! Surely, alcohol has never befouled your lips, and you are a paragon of virtue and righteousness." Whereas, I see myself as an English/Japanese teacher. I don't discuss my political viewpoints, and only discuss politics where it is in fact relevant to my subject (i.e. Feminism was a topic of conversation when discussing gender roles in fairytales). Some people seem to feel that teachers should not be human beings. They should be "on the job" 24/7.

Originally Posted by Kanabia

If I were still a high school student, I certainly wouldn't mind you wearing a mini-skirt to class.

I'd wanna see you in one first :p .

No, not at all. Pregnant teachers are not forced to have an abortion, nor are they fired in the United States of America.

This is good to hear. In Australia teachers could be sacked for becoming pregnant although they certainly couldn't be forced to have an abortion (what a shocking idea!).

I wasn't sure because I'd heard rumours about people being sacked in the U.S. because of their sexual orientation, their religion, because they were smokers and so on.

I wasn't sure because I'd heard rumours about people being sacked in the U.S. because of their sexual orientation, their religion, because they were smokers and so on.
I'm sure its happened, but the people that were fired should have brought their employer to court because that's discrimination, and that is illegal. Smoking while on the job could be a fireable offence, however, the employee should have been notified at hiring or recieved notification of policy changes, however, I don't know exactly what your referring to. Just being a smoker would not get someone fired.

I'd wanna see you in one first :p .

LOL...

I could level with you and wear a kilt. *nods*

Well if your labor aggrement involves moral turpitude clauses you might want to have a clear idea as to what that entails, in writing, to protect your own rights. On a purely practical level.

But shit, have fun, don't hurt no one, it's all good. In general people should keep their baseless fears and envy to themselves. Rock what you got, girl.

Today, Wanda, my fortune-telling fish, said this: "You worry too much about your job. Stop it. You are not paid enough to worry." I dont have a job, so you may have it instead of me...

http://www.outpostnine.com/editorials/teacher.html
you should read this, it is written by a american who is a "guest" teacher in Japan.

This is good to hear. In Australia teachers could be sacked for becoming pregnant although they certainly couldn't be forced to have an abortion (what a shocking idea!).

I wasn't sure because I'd heard rumours about people being sacked in the U.S. because of their sexual orientation, their religion, because they were smokers and so on.

Hmmm, I'm not sure how true this is. Unless of course you're referring to the IR reforms.

Just being a smoker would not get someone fired.
Not true, it's not common per se, but it's done. Generally as a cost control measure to keep medical insurance costs down. In "right to work states" you could pretty much be fired for anything, including being homosexual or black, just so long as they circumspect about it.

LOL...

I could level with you and wear a kilt. *nods*

Hmmm, and would you be wearing it in the *ahem* traditional manner?;)

In Australia teachers could be sacked for becoming pregnant although they certainly couldn't be forced to have an abortion (what a shocking idea!).

This was in ye olden days.

Hmmm, and would you be wearing it in the *ahem* traditional manner?;)

Of course not. I would have it lifted above my waist and be twirling around on my toes like a ballerina.

o.O

Of course not. I would have it lifted above my waist and be twirling around on my toes like a ballerina.

o.O

Pictures, NOW!

Not true, it's not common per se, but it's done. Generally as a cost control measure to keep medical insurance costs down. In "right to work states" you could pretty much be fired for anything, including being homosexual or black, just so long as they circumspect about it.
As long as they make up another reason to fire the person, and don't directly fire them for smoking, being gay, or for their color of skin, then its obviously OK. I never denied that.

Pictures, NOW!

Too bad, I don't actually have a kilt. :p

As long as they make up another reason to fire the person, and don't directly fire them for smoking, being gay, or for their color of skin, then its obviously OK. I never denied that.
The people who got fired for being smokers got fired for being smokers. They were actually given an opportunity to quit and decided not to avail themselves of it. The goverment, through the military, has had some success firing people for being gay through what is essentially a moral turpitude clause. They don't always win and they don't always lose. But they're not being circumspect. That option to discriminate simply exists to a nearly unlimited degree in "right to work" states.

I met a couple of my teachers in bars/clubs when I was still at school. I thought nothing of it; fair play to them, and fair play to you! What has what you do in your free time got to do with your students?

If I met Saint Jade in a nightclub, I would first wonder what the hell I was doing in a nightclub and then I would expect Saint Jade to teach me a thing or two.

i was just curious, because the reaction from some people in the community appears to be "BUT you're, you're A TEACHER! Surely, alcohol has never befouled your lips, and you are a paragon of virtue and righteousness." Some people seem to feel that teachers should not be human beings. They should be "on the job" 24/7.
In Japan, I kinda am, but they have much different standards when it comes to public servants and as a gaijin, I stick out a lot.

Of course going out drinking is considered part of normal events in Japan. ;)

Now my STUDENTS though, they seem to think I must live at the school because they always do a doubletake whenever they see me outside of school and in jeans and a t-shirt.

The people who got fired for being smokers got fired for being smokers. They were actually given an opportunity to quit and decided not to avail themselves of it.
That's odd. I've never heard of a case of that, then again, most employers don't offer squat in terms of health insurance in my territory.
The goverment, through the military, has had some success firing people for being gay through what is essentially a moral turpitude clause. They don't always win and they don't always lose.
Yes, that's true.
But they're not being circumspect. That option to discriminate simply exists to a nearly unlimited degree in "right to work" states.
Wait a second, I looked up "right-to-work" laws (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_work) just now, and that does not deal directly with firing people. I'll admit that my state does not have such legislation, but a major paper-mill from where I come from is staffed by a lot of Southerners ( which is the general region that subscribes to such laws ). I've heard a lot of complaining about "open shops" and "closed shops" from the union boys, but what does that have to do with firing someone if they are black, smoker, or homosexual? I have a suspicion that you work deals with this matter, so would you mind elaborating?

I'm in the same boat as you and constantly fear that if I go to the bar on a Saturday night that I will be looked down on. However, my students parents who might work at a factory or store sometimes might walk around town drunk on a weeknight. There is nothing wrong with enjoying yourself in a legal way, but our culture MAKES us feel bad for being a real person outside of school.

My school district has even put in a clause in our contracts stating that we have to uphold a moral conduct outside of school or we could lose our jobs. It's crap, but it's life. I've had to go to the point to try to hide my website (which isn't bad really, but I want to be safe so students don't find it) because I'm afraid that students might find it and pass it around the school.

Teaching has always and will always require us to be above certain behaviors. There's little we can do about it.

In Japan, I kinda am, but they have much different standards when it comes to public servants and as a gaijin, I stick out a lot.

Of course going out drinking is considered part of normal events in Japan. ;)

Now my STUDENTS though, they seem to think I must live at the school because they always do a doubletake whenever they see me outside of school and in jeans and a t-shirt.

Yeah I remember when I did cultural studies on Japan being told that teachers like go to arcades and stuff after school to make sure their students aren't there and stuff. Is that still true?

I teach in a very conservative school system. I have to be very careful where I go and what I say. There are many times in which I would love to go to a local club who brings in "progressive country" acts on Thursday night, but because it also allows 18+ into the club, many of my students will also be attending. :headbang:
3 years ago, we were warned by our Supt. now to say or do anything that would embarrass the district. He even said be careful not to even get into a disagreement with the bag boy at the local supermarket. Anything that might bring a poor light upon the school.

I'm a teacher, too, and I avoid the whole "running into students in public" thing entirely. I live in a different county than I teach in. ;)

Yeah I remember when I did cultural studies on Japan being told that teachers like go to arcades and stuff after school to make sure their students aren't there and stuff. Is that still true?
Depends upon the community and the school, some do and some don't.

There IS a rule stating that the students from my school shouldn't go to certain areas and I about gave them a heart attack when I came up behind them and asked what magazines they were reading.

I know teachers aren't supposed to be able to bring topics outside of a subject into the classroom (e.g. politics into literature, religion into science, etc, etc).

Really?

How can you teach Shakespeare unless you mention the politics of the time? Or religion? There are tons of references to it that students won't understand unless you discuss them.

How can you discuss Animal Farm without discussing Communism as practiced in the Soviet Union? or 1984, without discussing Orwell's disillusionment with communism after his experiences in the Spanish Civil War?

You are misinformed.

A lot of what is said to me in my daily life has got me thinking, should teachers be held to higher moral standards than other people?

I mean, people are genuinely shocked to discover that I think it is perfectly acceptable for me to wear a mini-skirt out on weekends (a decent length one, about 6 inches above the knee), drink alcohol, and go clubbing. They seem most particularly surprised when I flirt with guys and get phone numbers etc. The refrain is; "But what will your students say?" As if I go to school and detail my weekend activities to my students.

Should my occupation limit my activities outside of school hours?

No, it should not...
1. You most likely have a contract which stipulates your contract hours
2. You're not payed for it

Really?

How can you teach Shakespeare unless you mention the politics of the time? Or religion? There are tons of references to it that students won't understand unless you discuss them.

How can you discuss Animal Farm without discussing Communism as practiced in the Soviet Union? or 1984, without discussing Orwell's disillusionment with communism after his experiences in the Spanish Civil War?

You are misinformed.

I think what NAS was saying was that teachers quite rightly shouldn't be running off at the mouth about their personal beliefs. Like, when my mum went back and did her senior, she had a history teacher that kept trying to "teach" them that the bible was history. She wouldn't teach them like Greek and Egyptian history and that because it wasn't in the Bible, so it wasn't important. Or my English prac teacher who felt it was appropriate to impress her beliefs about sex before marriage on her students. She happened to think it was perfectly acceptable, and nearly lynched a kid who disagreed.

My mother's a retired teacher, the conservative type. She taught a schools I never attended, thank goodness.

The teaching profession in Australia is a little in crisis due to relatively low pay and so we aren't getting the quality teachers we used to get.

I suppose it depends on how effectively you can seperate your teaching life from your clubbing life. Teachers are role models for children, and you should model what you want to see from them. If you have no problem with them getting drunk and sleeping around then I suppose it's okay for you to model that, but if you don't you might want to keep that part of your life very far away from your life with your students (of course if you get caught you run the risk of being called out for being a hypocrite)

I have always been held to a "higher standard", for the first half of my life I imposed it on myself, then I was "the boss" which meant no slacking off at work.

Now, I am 'the mom' which means I am the ultimate role model for my children, and I am 'the mentor' which means I have to be responsible around the teenagers, and also 'the teacher' which means I have to be good around my class. So, in the end I don't really have any time to be bad. Things can only get more restrictive when next year my husband is up for deacon of the church, I used to be a youth minister's wife, they would cut you some slack, but deacon's wife means that if I screw up he get's booted out. So, I gotta be good.

As long as they make up another reason to fire the person, and don't directly fire them for smoking, being gay, or for their color of skin, then its obviously OK. I never denied that.Not exactly true. There are national laws against firing someone because of their race, but there are no national laws against firing someone because of their sexual orientation, only state or local laws against it.

The teaching profession in Australia is a little in crisis due to relatively low pay and so we aren't getting the quality teachers we used to get.

Yeah, and to add to it, ask anyone on the street and they'll tell you that teachers are overpaid lazy whiners. Sigh.

Yeah, and to add to it, ask anyone on the street and they'll tell you that teachers are overpaid lazy whiners. Sigh.

Put someone to control 30 insane kids and try to teach them something? They'd give up.

teachers arent paid enough for the school district to run your private life. its a hard enough job without giving good teachers another reason to walk away.

my nephew used to tend bar on the weekends. some people found that inappropriate but he just looked at them and suggested that if he were paid better he wouldnt need to work on the weekends.

teachers arent paid enough for the school district to run your private life. its a hard enough job without giving good teachers another reason to walk away.

my nephew used to tend bar on the weekends. some people found that inappropriate but he just looked at them and suggested that if he were paid better he wouldnt need to work on the weekends.

Parents also forget teachers effectively babysit their kids when they are at school. Teachers should get more respect really.

I suppose it depends on how effectively you can seperate your teaching life from your clubbing life. Teachers are role models for children, and you should model what you want to see from them. If you have no problem with them getting drunk and sleeping around then I suppose it's okay for you to model that, but if you don't you might want to keep that part of your life very far away from your life with your students (of course if you get caught you run the risk of being called out for being a hypocrite)

I have always been held to a "higher standard", for the first half of my life I imposed it on myself, then I was "the boss" which meant no slacking off at work.

Now, I am 'the mom' which means I am the ultimate role model for my children, and I am 'the mentor' which means I have to be responsible around the teenagers, and also 'the teacher' which means I have to be good around my class. So, in the end I don't really have any time to be bad. Things can only get more restrictive when next year my husband is up for deacon of the church, I used to be a youth minister's wife, they would cut you some slack, but deacon's wife means that if I screw up he get's booted out. So, I gotta be good.

Hey, who said anything about sleeping around?

I guess I have a real problem with the idea that a teacher should be prevented from doing things which are perfectly legal in their own time where their students can't see.

Good luck to you and your husband next year.

I suppose it depends on how effectively you can seperate your teaching life from your clubbing life. Teachers are role models for children, and you should model what you want to see from them. If you have no problem with them getting drunk and sleeping around then I suppose it's okay for you to model that, but if you don't you might want to keep that part of your life very far away from your life with your students (of course if you get caught you run the risk of being called out for being a hypocrite)

I have always been held to a "higher standard", for the first half of my life I imposed it on myself, then I was "the boss" which meant no slacking off at work.

Now, I am 'the mom' which means I am the ultimate role model for my children, and I am 'the mentor' which means I have to be responsible around the teenagers, and also 'the teacher' which means I have to be good around my class. So, in the end I don't really have any time to be bad. Things can only get more restrictive when next year my husband is up for deacon of the church, I used to be a youth minister's wife, they would cut you some slack, but deacon's wife means that if I screw up he get's booted out. So, I gotta be good.
does going clubbing while wearing a short skirt IMPLY getting drunk and sleeping around?

and even if it does, unless she's having sex in the club bathroom who is going to know? what one does in one's home (or ones "date's" home) is one's own business and not for public consumption. without someone seeing the actual act, its all gossip now isnt it?

besides, i think that a teacher could very well be a good role model AND go clubbing. not that i have any idea of how jade conducts herself in public but if she is going out, having fun and not behaving outrageously, she is modelling good behavior that kids could safely emulate.

its very dangerous to suggest to children that one is either a nun or a whore. that going out drinking and dancing is what sluts do (then if they find themselves enjoying going to clubs, they will feel that acting "slutty" Is required behavior)

Hey, who said anything about sleeping around?
apparently I did :p I was trying to be generic, I didn't mean to imply that you were sleeping around, sorry.

I guess I have a real problem with the idea that a teacher should be prevented from doing things which are perfectly legal in their own time where their students can't see.
They shouldn't be, but there are sometimes consequences for even doing things that are legal, as long as someone realizes that and accepts the chance, I don't have any problem with them doing whatever they wish. (not that it's really any of my business what others do anyway, but you know what I mean.)

Good luck to you and your husband next year.
thanks.

its very dangerous to suggest to children that one is either a nun or a whore. that going out drinking and dancing is what sluts do (then if they find themselves enjoying going to clubs, they will feel that acting "slutty" Is required behavior)

I wish I could force all parents to be brainwashed (not seriously) with something like this. It would certainly help them guide their children a little better.

And as for the rest of it; I do try not to broadcast my sexual liaisons in public bathrooms, but the smell of drunk vomit and stale cigarettes does turn me on so ;)

does going clubbing while wearing a short skirt IMPLY getting drunk and sleeping around?

and even if it does, unless she's having sex in the club bathroom who is going to know? what one does in one's home (or ones "date's" home) is one's own business and not for public consumption. without someone seeing the actual act, its all gossip now isnt it?

besides, i think that a teacher could very well be a good role model AND go clubbing. not that i have any idea of how jade conducts herself in public but if she is going out, having fun and not behaving outrageously, she is modelling good behavior that kids could safely emulate.

its very dangerous to suggest to children that one is either a nun or a whore. that going out drinking and dancing is what sluts do (then if they find themselves enjoying going to clubs, they will feel that acting "slutty" Is required behavior)

trying to be generic, I exagerated a bit. sorry. (I explained in another post) I was thinking about perfectly legal things that a teacher could do, that may be looked down upon, like sleeping around and getting drunk.

apparently I did :p I was trying to be generic, I didn't mean to imply that you were sleeping around, sorry.


That's okay, didn't think you were. Just wanted to clarify.

They shouldn't be, but there are sometimes consequences for even doing things that are legal, as long as someone realizes that and accepts the chance, I don't have any problem with them doing whatever they wish. (not that it's really any of my business what others do anyway, but you know what I mean.)

Yes, I do. to all of it.

thanks.

You're welcome :p

Really?

How can you teach Shakespeare unless you mention the politics of the time? Or religion? There are tons of references to it that students won't understand unless you discuss them.

How can you discuss Animal Farm without discussing Communism as practiced in the Soviet Union? or 1984, without discussing Orwell's disillusionment with communism after his experiences in the Spanish Civil War?

You are misinformed.

I think that these cases are different. Having been in classes where I've read Shakespeare and Animal Farm, I can say that I have no problem with the teachers telling us about the background of the literature, but I think the problem arises when an instructor begins preaching their own beliefs about current politics or culture when it has no bearing on the material that is being studied.

Now of course, if it were a class discussion of whatever we're talking about here, I think that's acceptable, but not if a teacher begins teaching their own views to their classes. Just a bit of elaboration, Kat. :)

I had a high school teacher who was hung over in my OAC(last year) English class.... He ended up laying down during a group presentation (MY group) and even leaving the room to vomit in the drinking fountain.
He said he was just sick.
We knew better.

Good story to learn from.
Don't be like him, and you'll be fine.