NationStates Jolt Archive

Pro-Censorship

The argument for censorship is not so much an argument against the actual music. It is a battle over the themes, lyrics, and imagery presented by the artists. It is a fight for contemporary moral standards and decency, and a fight against obscenity and indecency.

Definitions

Taken from Webster's Dictionary...

Obscene - abhorrent to morality or virtue; specifically : designed to incite to lust or depravity

Indecent - not decent; especially : grossly unseemly or offensive to manners or morals

Arguments

According to the Communications Decency Act (1996), music is not protected under the First Amendment of the Constitution of the United States.

Music censorship is not about silencing specific artists, or taking away their right to free speech. It concerns the control over the distribution and accessibility of obscene or indecent material to the public.

The public should be aware of the content and message of the musical products they buy.

The public should not be exposed to obscene or indecent material without their previous knowledge and consent.

The exposure of minors to obscene and/or indecent material, and the sale of such material to minors, should be controlled.

Music Control Through the Ages

The idea of censorship is relative to the time period. As the lifestyles and morals of the majority of the general population change so do ideas regarding what is and is not appropriate musical material. The following timeline demonstrates what social topics were deemed sensitive and powerful to the society of that decade. The representation of these topics in music was seriously monitored because of their strong effects. The timeline supports pro-censorship by demonstrating how the action of censoring music in direct relation to that society's contemporary moral standards.

1950's

At this time, strong prejudice existed towards the integrating of music by black artists into mainstream music. After receiving 15,000 letters calling the new and popularizing rhythm and blues music "dirty" and controversial, the radio station WABB in Chicago stopped playing all black music. Any representations of sexuality were closely monitored and/or censored. Billie Holiday's "Love For Sale" was banned for it's supposed "prostitution theme". On the Ed Sullivan show Elvis was viewed by the camera only from the waist up because his bodily gyrations were considered lewd. In comparison to today, society then was much more conservative.

1960's

Representation of sexuality was even more monitored and censored during this time period. "Louie, Louie" by the Kingsmen was banned for being pornographic. "I can't get not satisfaction" by the Rolling Stones was banned for being too "sexually suggestive" in 1965. On the Ed Sullivan show the Rolling Stones had to change the lyrics in "Let's Spend the Night Together" (specifically the singing of the title during the song). On the same show The Doors were supposed to change lyrics in "Girl, we couldn't get much higher" but did not. There was also a growing concern to protect religion, especially Christianity. Over half of the radios refused to play "The Ballad of John and Yoko" because of reference to Christ and the Crucifixion.

1970's

Especially after the experimenation years of the '60's, one of the main concerns in the music industry during this time period was drug abuse. In '70 President Richard Nixon tells radio broadcasters that rock music lyrics should be screened for content and that music with drug references be banned outright. Officials in Illinois in '71 release a list of popular music with drug references such as "Puff the Magic Dragon" and the Beatles' "Yellow Submarine". Sexuality continued to be censored as well. The Sex Pistols has trouble obtaining work permits to tour in the U.S. because their music lacked "artistic value".

1980's

This decade spawned the PMRG (Parents Music Reference Group). In '85 the group established it's main focus was "to get record companies to monitor and rate their artist's releases with a system similar to the MRAA system for the movies." From the middle of this year to even today the Record Industry Association of America developed a stickering system to indicate the product contained explicit lyrics regarding drugs, sex, violence, etc. The musical genres of Heavy Metal and Rap were hard hit by this kind of music labeling. Even in '81 Olivia Newton-John's "Physical" was banned in radio stations in Salt Lake City because a strong Mormon force protested the song's sexual innuendoes.

1990's

A major force during this time period was the protection of family unit and family values. This is identified in the success that Wal-Mart has had in becoming the largest distributor of music in America. On many occasions Wal-Mart has decided not to sell an album for being "inappropriate". By censoring in this way Wal-Mart wields great power in determining an album's success. In '97 Prodigy's new single "Smack My Bitch Up" was ban from K-Mart and Wal-Mart. Also during the '90's more music has been called "obscene". In '90 there were many objections to 2 Live Crew's hit song "Me So Horny". The band was also persecuted for performing this material live in concert.


What About the Children?

Today in American society, the accessibility of music to children creates a need for the control of music. Although it is the parents' responsibility to monitor what their children see, listen to, and ultimately how they behave, much of this control is taken away from the parents in American society. Obscene and indecent material is incredibly pervasive and often available to children of all ages. Tighter controls need to be placed on the purchasing of obscene/indecent materials by minors. Often called "Tipper Stickers", the rating labels on music albums are in important means by which parents can filter what they feel is acceptable for their child to hear. These stickers do not limit the "freedom" of the artist, but merely educate the public on the content of what they are listening to.

Sounds like a good list of facts. Do you agree?

Well... I'm anti-censorship! Does that help?

Pro-censorship here, to an extent.

Well... I'm anti-censorship! Does that help?
Why do you feel you need to be anti-censorship?

It keeps the world safe for the future, for our kids.

Why do you feel you need to be anti-censorship?

It keeps the world safe for the future, for our kids.
How? By keeping them stupid and unaware?

Sounds like a good list of facts. Do you agree?

Um, no.

Pro-censorship here, to an extent.
Something wrong with that?

Why do you feel you need to be anti-censorship?

It keeps the world safe for the future, for our kids.

The marketplace of ideas is the safeguard of our future. Ignorance is not.

How? By keeping them stupid and unaware?

Well, I am pro-censorship when it comes to things like rascism, Faces of Death, etc.

I am NOt in favor when it comes to perfectly harmless opinion.

Why do you feel you need to be anti-censorship?

It keeps the world safe for the future, for our kids.

Um...could you possibly offer some explanation as to how not hearing the word "fuck" in song lyrics "keeps the world safe"?

How? By keeping them stupid and unaware?
By keeping them away from imoral experiences. I feel when I decided to set rules for my kids, I am doing them right. I have a 4 year old daughter and a 6 year old son. So far, they are perfect and kind to others. They will stay this was because of how they were raised.

Um...could you possibly offer some explanation as to how not hearing the word "fuck" in song lyrics "keeps the world safe"?

The word is a taboo in our culture, means something vulgar, and... couldn't you say something else? Noit that it's vital to save the world, but I'd be happier if mychildren weren't hearing that, thank you.

Well, I am pro-censorship when it comes to things like rascism, Faces of Death, etc.

I am NOt in favor when it comes to perfectly harmless opinion.Very few opinions are harmless, for starters--they all can be pulled out of proportion and used to justify perfectly heinous acts.

I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness, starving hysterical naked,

dragging themselves through the negro streets at dawn looking for an angry fix,

angelheaded hipsters burning for the ancient heavenly connection to the starry dynamo in the machinery of night

The reason you defend all speech is because when you set a 'standard' how that standard is applied can be abused. Ask Allen Ginsberg-or Lenny Bruce:

When you take away the ability to say "Fuck" you take away the abiltiy to say "Fuck the government."

Why do you feel you need to be anti-censorship?

It keeps the world safe for the future, for our kids.

Simple. A society that is so easily destroyed by the printed word or a song; does not deserve to exist.

Tipper's crap did accomplish censorship. A friend once told me (he worked at a music store) that they would get fundis comming in and demanding that music be removed. He would ask them what offended them about the music. They couldn't answer because they never listed to the song. They went in only looking for the stickers. In this store the manager had some backbon and always threw these people out.

Censorship has a place sometimes as in printing unit locations during war for example.

However, most of the time its questionable.

Take Cheneys energy plan that was hidden because of "national security" I recently heard Kevin Philips on the radio and he mentioned they got a look at the energy plan through the freedom of information act and found maps for the oil fields of Iraq.

Would the people have supported the war if they knew that?

A weak society uses censorship.

Um...could you possibly offer some explanation as to how not hearing the word "fuck" in song lyrics "keeps the world safe"?
It keeps my children from becoming demented little pricks like all the other "homies" you read about in the paper. The word "fuck" promotes violence to those who listen. They think "Heyy this is cool! I'm going to keep listening!" which leads to lyrics of violence, hate, and sexist opinions.

By keeping them away from imoral experiences. I feel when I decided to set rules for my kids, I am doing them right. I have a 4 year old daughter and a 6 year old son. So far, they are perfect and kind to others. They will stay this was because of how they were raised.
Fine--you do that for your kids. Just don't expect everyone else in the world to follow your parenting style. Guess what--I say fuck in front of my daughter, and she says it in front of me, and yet she's an honor roll student and an extraordinarily talented musician, and my colleagues all note how well-mannered and intelligent and mature she is at age 15.

Very few opinions are harmless, for starters--they all can be pulled out of proportion and used to justify perfectly heinous acts.

the opinions I wouldn't censor would be like anarchism, statism, government critisism, etc. I would censor Naiism, and stuff that is generally just putrid.

Fine--you do that for your kids. Just don't expect everyone else in the world to follow your parenting style. Guess what--I say fuck in front of my daughter, and she says it in front of me, and yet she's an honor roll student and an extraordinarily talented musician, and my colleagues all note how well-mannered and intelligent and mature she is at age 15.
Well, there's you problem...;)


EDIT:
Aaaaannnndd there's the big 10K

It keeps my children from becoming demented little pricks like all the other "homies" you read about in the paper. The word "fuck" promotes violence to those who listen. They think "Heyy this is cool! I'm going to keep listening!" which leads to lyrics of violence, hate, and sexist opinions.
I hate to break this to you, but your kids are going to say "fuck," and they're going to say it a lot, and there's not a damn thing you can do to stop them. And in the long run, whatever music is out there that pisses you off the most, that's what they're going to listen to.

It keeps my children from becoming demented little pricks like all the other "homies" you read about in the paper. The word "fuck" promotes violence to those who listen. They think "Heyy this is cool! I'm going to keep listening!" which leads to lyrics of violence, hate, and sexist opinions.

LOL.

The word "fuck" promotes violence to those who listen???

I'd love to see the studies on that one.

there is one type of censorship that is permissable. That is self-censorship.

Byond that, no one, and I mean no one, has the right to dictate to me nor anyone else what is "appropriate". If I want to raise my kids hearing the word "fuck", I have that right. If I want to shelter them, I also have that right. We have freedom of speech, yet we can't say certain words on tv or radio. I can understand a rating system, though non-restrictive (as R movies are). There is no reason a child is somehow unable to see sex or violence. There is no proof that it does anything to impact their future actions, particularly if the parent is willing to discuss the issues that are raised by such themes.

A guidence system is fine. Warning someone that a song may have strong lyrics is fine. Cutting those lyrics out is not.

the opinions I wouldn't censor would be like anarchism, statism, government critisism, etc. I would censor Naiism, and stuff that is generally just putrid.

So, you're a fascist?

A weak society uses censorship.
Untrue.
A strong, independent nation uses censorship.

there is one type of censorship that is permissable. That is self-censorship.

I disagree. Self-censorship comes from fear; in a proper society, nobody should be scared to state their opinion.

So, you're a fascist?

Actually, no. I would ALLOW critisism of government and pretty much all opinions on earth. I just wouldn't allow things that are plain wrong, or that would severely offend a whole group of people.

the opinions I wouldn't censor would be like anarchism, statism, government critisism, etc. I would censor Naiism, and stuff that is generally just putrid.

Ah, but the marketplace of ideas will best sort out which ideas are valuable and which are "putrid."

The principals of democracy, free expression, freedom of assembly, and freedom of conscience are strengths not weaknesses.

I direct you to the persuasive wisdom of Oliver Wendell Holmes in his dissent in Abrams v. United States, 250 US 616, 630 (1919):

Persecution for the expression of opinions seems to me perfectly logical. If you have no doubt of your premises or your power and want a certain result with all your heart you naturally express your wishes in law and sweep away all opposition. To allow opposition by speech seems to indicate that you think the speech impotent, as when a man says that he has squared the circle, or that you do not care whole heartedly for the result, or that you doubt either your power or your premises. But when men have realized that time has upset many fighting faiths, they may come to believe even more than they believe the very foundations of their own conduct that the ultimate good desired is better reached by free trade in ideas-that the best test of truth is the power of the thought to get itself accepted in the competition of the market, and that truth is the only ground upon which their wishes safely can be carried out. That at any rate is the theory of our Constitution. It is an experiment, as all life is an experiment. Every year if not every day we have to wager our salvation upon some prophecy based upon imperfect knowledge. While that experiment is part of our system I think that we should be eternally vigilant against attempts to check the expression of opinions that we loathe and believe to be fraught with death, unless they so imminently threaten immediate interference with the lawful and pressing purposes of the law that an immediate check is required to save the country.

Untrue.
A strong, independent nation uses censorship.

Yeah! Just like Nazi Germany! The Soviet Union! The PRC!

Wait, what was it that those nations all have in common? Oh yeah, they're all fascist.

Untrue.
A strong, independent nation uses censorship.

Wrong.

You can't be independent if a body is deciding what you can read, watch or listen.

A weak society uses censorship.

Actually, no. I would ALLOW critisism of government and pretty much all opinions on earth. I just wouldn't allow things that are plain wrong, or that would severely offend a whole group of people.

People need to be offended, so they know what's wrong with those opinion. By seeing Nazism, communism, etc., people will see why they're wrong.

By keeping them away from imoral experiences. I feel when I decided to set rules for my kids, I am doing them right. I have a 4 year old daughter and a 6 year old son. So far, they are perfect and kind to others. They will stay this was because of how they were raised.right...your children are perfect:rolleyes:
no person, despite what their parents may think, is perfect.
It is fine for you to shelter your children. That is your choice. But I don't force my values on you, you best not do the same to me.
Hearing the word "fuck" will in no way lead them to immoral experiences. They also won't stay perfect. Either they will end up naive, or rebel. But they won't stay perfect.

Fine--you do that for your kids. Just don't expect everyone else in the world to follow your parenting style. Guess what--I say fuck in front of my daughter, and she says it in front of me, and yet she's an honor roll student and an extraordinarily talented musician, and my colleagues all note how well-mannered and intelligent and mature she is at age 15.
Honor roll? Honor Society would ban her if she said "fuck" that means she is unacceptable.

Unless someone is forcing you to listen to something offensive, then you have no right to censor that expression. If someone IS forcing you to listen to something offensive, then it becomes a matter of assault, NOT freedom of expression.

I believe that an artist has every right to create whatever he/she desires, just as I have the right not to listen to it.

Remember: Legal protection of freedom of expression is there to protect offensive, unpopular ideas. They are the ones that need protection from the herd. Popular Ideas do not need protection.

Finally: Freedom of Expression, like all "freedoms", are only privilages one is willing to fight for.

Ah, but the marketplace of ideas will best sort out which ideas are valuable and which are "putrid."

The principals of democracy, free expression, freedom of assembly, and freedom of conscience are strengths not weaknesses.

I direct you to the persuasive wisdom of Oliver Wendell Holmes in his dissent in Abrams v. United States, 250 US 616, 630 (1919):

Persecution for the expression of opinions seems to me perfectly logical. If you have no doubt of your premises or your power and want a certain result with all your heart you naturally express your wishes in law and sweep away all opposition. To allow opposition by speech seems to indicate that you think the speech impotent, as when a man says that he has squared the circle, or that you do not care whole heartedly for the result, or that you doubt either your power or your premises. But when men have realized that time has upset many fighting faiths, they may come to believe even more than they believe the very foundations of their own conduct that the ultimate good desired is better reached by free trade in ideas-that the best test of truth is the power of the thought to get itself accepted in the competition of the market, and that truth is the only ground upon which their wishes safely can be carried out. That at any rate is the theory of our Constitution. It is an experiment, as all life is an experiment. Every year if not every day we have to wager our salvation upon some prophecy based upon imperfect knowledge. While that experiment is part of our system I think that we should be eternally vigilant against attempts to check the expression of opinions that we loathe and believe to be fraught with death, unless they so imminently threaten immediate interference with the lawful and pressing purposes of the law that an immediate check is required to save the country.


Here, by "putrid", I mean things like, "WE SHOULD KILL ALL THE BLACK PEOPLE!" or "I SAY WE MURDER EVERYONE WHO'S RICH!" Not small opinions. Even if I hate The Simpsons (which I do), yo ushould be allowed to say, "The Simpsons is awesome."

EDIT:
Aaaaannnndd there's the big 10K

Congrats.

I can't believe I'm in a thread agree with K-P!! Hey, K-P, hows it going ?

The word is a taboo in our culture, means something vulgar, and... couldn't you say something else? Noit that it's vital to save the world, but I'd be happier if mychildren weren't hearing that, thank you.
"gosh darn it that hurt"
vs
"fuck, that hurt"

even shakespeare was vulgar, and sometimes, it is needed to convey proper strength of emotion.

Honor roll? Honor Society would ban her if she said "fuck" that means she is unacceptable.

She's smart, and gets good grades. Thus, honor roll. And do NOt ever call an achiever unacceptable. Never. Or I will personally report you to the mods.

(Also, to the parent: Good job.)

I put this in as and EDIT on my initial post and the thread passed it by, so I'll repost the words of Lenny Bruce-

You take away the ability to say 'fuck' you take away the ability to say 'Fuck the government.'

"gosh darn it that hurt"
vs
"fuck, that hurt"

even shakespeare was vulgar, and sometimes, it is needed to convey proper strength of emotion.

Well, in certain places it's justified (I've used them myself) but in most, no.

A weak society uses censorship.
Is the USA weak? I think not.

Untrue.
A strong, independent nation uses censorship.

Bullshit.

As stated in my sig:

"Without an unfettered press, without liberty of speech, all of the outward forms and structures of free institutions are a sham, a pretense -- the sheerest mockery. If the press is not free; if speech is not independent and untrammeled; if the mind is shackled or made impotent through fear, it makes no difference under what form of government you live, you are a subject and not a citizen."
--William E. Borah, U. S. Senator (1865-1940)

Is the USA weak? I think not.

The US uses little, if any, censorship.

It keeps my children from becoming demented little pricks like all the other "homies" you read about in the paper. The word "fuck" promotes violence to those who listen. They think "Heyy this is cool! I'm going to keep listening!" which leads to lyrics of violence, hate, and sexist opinions.
I listen to death metal, metal, rap, pop...you name it, I listen.
my parents say fuck to me, I say it back.

Yet I am at Boston University, getting good grades, have better knowledge of ettiquite than most adults, don't commit violent crimes, am in no way sexist, and am deathly against hate.

Perhaps you should look deeper than what newspapers tell you. I could easily read the paper and say how bad all adults are, as most crimes are commited by adults.

The US uses little, if any, censorship.

The USA is more self censoring. Various channels will show what they want.

Here, by "putrid", I mean things like, "WE SHOULD KILL ALL THE BLACK PEOPLE!" or "I SAY WE MURDER EVERYONE WHO'S RICH!" Not small opinions. Even if I hate The Simpsons (which I do), yo ushould be allowed to say, "The Simpsons is awesome."

Read the quote again. Holmes was not talking about "small opinions" either. He was talking about opinions considered not just wrong but deemed dangerous to our way of life. They still deserve protection.

I disagree. Self-censorship comes from fear; in a proper society, nobody should be scared to state their opinion.
I imply self-censorship as in a way to keep yourself from sounding stupid, as well as not seeing what you don't want. If I think a movie is too violent, I'll avoid it (like that will ever happen, but you get the idea). And also to make sure I don't lie or am dishonest, or offend people I care about, I will censor myself.

Read the quote again. Holmes was not talking about "small opinions" either. He was talking about opinions considered not just wrong but deemed dangerous to our way of life. They still deserve protection.

Fine, you've defeated me...

They think "Heyy this is cool! I'm going to keep listening!" which leads to lyrics of violence, hate, and sexist opinions.

Yes indeed. I remember only the other day, I was listening to some horrible rap music with the lyrics "I shot a man in Reno, just to watch him die". Damn rappers, always promoting violence.

It keeps my children from becoming demented little pricks like all the other "homies" you read about in the paper. The word "fuck" promotes violence to those who listen. They think "Heyy this is cool! I'm going to keep listening!" which leads to lyrics of violence, hate, and sexist opinions.

Wow! That statement alone says why censorship is bad.

The word fuck does not promote violence. Most children doen't even know what it means. All they know is that its a "bad" word they are not supposed to use.

Finally, music does not teach violence, hatrid or sexism. People already have that when they gravitate to such music. Censoring this music will not end it.

Congrats.
Thanks:)

I can't believe I'm in a thread agree with K-P!! Hey, K-P, hows it going ?
I know-freaky, isn't it?

Honor roll? Honor Society would ban her if she said "fuck" that means she is unacceptable.
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight. Gee, the fact that I said fuck in practically every situation I could didn't get me kicked out of the National Honor Society when I was in high school.

The USA is more self censoring. Various channels will show what they want.

And usually that is because they don't want to be bothered by Religious fundis or are worried the Religous fundis will harass their sponsors.

Honor roll? Honor Society would ban her if she said "fuck" that means she is unacceptable.
Congratulations. You have no idea what makes you "unacceptable" to NHS.

oh, and honor roll isn't NHS.

right...your children are perfect:rolleyes:
no person, despite what their parents may think, is perfect.
It is fine for you to shelter your children. That is your choice. But I don't force my values on you, you best not do the same to me.
Hearing the word "fuck" will in no way lead them to immoral experiences. They also won't stay perfect. Either they will end up naive, or rebel. But they won't stay perfect.
My children are perfect. They like going to church, they like reading, they correct others when needed. They are smart. I'm not forcing anything on my children, I am bringing them up the proper way. And I never intended on telling you that you are wrong, just that I find your thoughts appauling. Amd don't you dare give me that "It wont lead to immoral experiences" bull crap. I know kids get provoked by these words and then read into the more obscene beliefs.

She's smart, and gets good grades. Thus, honor roll. And do NOt ever call an achiever unacceptable. Never. Or I will personally report you to the mods.

(Also, to the parent: Good job.)

To bring this to where the OP can see it.

LOL.

The word "fuck" promotes violence to those who listen???

I'd love to see the studies on that one.

"Fuck" = :sniper:

Well, in certain places it's justified (I've used them myself) but in most, no.
but who dictates when it is proper? I could easily argue that it is needed in all cases it is used, by any person. I might not agree, but I easily could.

Not to mention, if you are offended, atleast it is making you think.

My children are perfect. They like going to church, they like reading, they correct others when needed. They are smart. I'm not forcing anything on my children, I am bringing them up the proper way. And I never intended on telling you that you are wrong, just that I find your thoughts appauling. Amd don't you dare give me that "It wont lead to immoral experiences" bull crap. I know kids get provoked by these words and then read into the more obscene beliefs.

No person is perfect. No-one. Nada. Now, sure, you may be an awesome parent, but nobody, you, me, Eratiside, your children, nobody is perfect.

but who dictates when it is proper? I could easily argue that it is needed in all cases it is used, by any person. I might not agree, but I easily could.

Not to mention, if you are offended, atleast it is making you think.

Well, if you are REALLY angry, just stubbed your toe, or just found out something REAL disturbing... then I say go ahead. If you use it every few words, no.

The US uses little, if any, censorship.
They censor "Oh my God".. Little if any? Please.

My children are perfect. They like going to church, they like reading, they correct others when needed. They are smart. I'm not forcing anything on my children, I am bringing them up the proper way. And I never intended on telling you that you are wrong, just that I find your thoughts appauling. Amd don't you dare give me that "It wont lead to immoral experiences" bull crap. I know kids get provoked by these words and then read into the more obscene beliefs.
b mine.

Oh man, I fuckin' hate kids like that.




Oh, look-someone was going to do that eventually...

Honor roll? Honor Society would ban her if she said "fuck" that means she is unacceptable.

Ok which group is that? I have been in a couple and that was never an issue.

They censor "Oh my God".. Little if any? Please.

If you say, "I HATE BUSH!" in front of the White House, agents will not come and kill you.

My children are perfect. They like going to church, they like reading, they correct others when needed. They are smart. I'm not forcing anything on my children, I am bringing them up the proper way. And I never intended on telling you that you are wrong, just that I find your thoughts appauling. Amd don't you dare give me that "It wont lead to immoral experiences" bull crap. I know kids get provoked by these words and then read into the more obscene beliefs.
If that bolded part is accurate, then nothing personal, but your kids are assholes. No kid should be "correcting others," no matter how much the kid may think the other needs it.

H.L. Mencken said it best: "Puritanism - The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy."

b mine.

Oh man, I fuckin' hate kids like that.




Oh, look-someone was going to do that eventually...
Beat me to it. But I was colder about it. :D

If that bolded part is accurate, then nothing personal, but your kids are assholes. No kid should be "correcting others," no matter how much the kid may think the other needs it.

Hey, nothing is wrong with correction, as long as it isn't nitpicking. He said, "When needed", meaning only if they're utterly wrong.

The word is a taboo in our culture, means something vulgar, and... couldn't you say something else? Noit that it's vital to save the world, but I'd be happier if mychildren weren't hearing that, thank you.

Honestly, so would I. I just object to silly rhetoric about "keeping the world safe," especially when it's used to justify active censorship. I'm all for parents taking an active role in their kids' lives, and when/if I ever have children, I have no doubt I'll try to avoid exposing them to excessive cursing, violence, sex, and so forth. But I'm not at all for parents taking an active role in complete strangers' kids' lives. I respect that some people like saying "fuck," and others like hearing "fuck," and I don't feel at all entitled to tell them to stop doing so.

To use an analogy - I think movies like "Deuce Bigalo" or "Harold and Kumar Go To White Castle" are stupid, offensive, and annoying, but I respect that some people like such movies, and I see no reason to try to get movie theatres to stop showing them, or to get special warning labels on the DVDs that say: "Warning: This Motion Picture Is Completely Idiotic". I just don't go watch them myself. Pretty simple, really.

My children are perfect. They like going to church, they like reading, they correct others when needed. They are smart. I'm not forcing anything on my children, I am bringing them up the proper way. And I never intended on telling you that you are wrong, just that I find your thoughts appauling. Amd don't you dare give me that "It wont lead to immoral experiences" bull crap. I know kids get provoked by these words and then read into the more obscene beliefs.

No human being is perfect. And church attendance has no effect whatsoever on a person's morality, or any other aspect on their life.

My children are perfect. They like going to church, they like reading, they correct others when needed. They are smart. I'm not forcing anything on my children, I am bringing them up the proper way. And I never intended on telling you that you are wrong, just that I find your thoughts appauling. Amd don't you dare give me that "It wont lead to immoral experiences" bull crap. I know kids get provoked by these words and then read into the more obscene beliefs.
Perfect. that is an unfairly high standard to expect your children to live up to, and they will inevitably fail. It is impossible to be perfect. I could pull the Greeks into this, but honestly, I can't be bothered to dig out those books at 3 AM.
Perhaps they are very well behaved. But they are not perfect. No one is perfect, and to expect that is unfair to the child.

I, too, am smart. I correct others when needed (read: when they ask me to revise a paper). I'm an English major...my life is reading and writing. I also listen to what you would call "obsene" music, watch "obscene" movies, read "obscene" literature. There is no "proper" or "right" way to raise a child. Ask 1000 parents how they raised their children, and you will get 1000 answers.
And no, kids don't get provoked if you discuss it with them. When I was in 6th grade, my parents got me the Eminem album. I had questions about some lyrics, and asked them. We discussed it. They told me their view, told me the opposing view, and then we talked about what I thought.

And just what is "obscene"? Is telling a girl to shove money up her vagina obscene, essentially calling her a whore, obscene?

Because that example is from good ol' Billy Shakespeare, Othello, Act 5...can't think of the scene (Nazz, maybe you can help me here?)

H.L. Mencken said it best: "Puritanism - The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy."

Bastard! Beat me to it! :D

They censor "Oh my God".. Little if any? Please.
Depends on the time and the individual channel. Sometimes Comedy Central will run stuff with all kinds of crazy shit after watershed hours.

Congratulations. You have no idea what makes you "unacceptable" to NHS.

oh, and honor roll isn't NHS.
No.. really?!

I was making a point of how honor society is of higher status.

And, I know someone whos kid said "fuck" and was kicked out.

No human being is perfect. And church attendance has no effect whatsoever on a person's morality, or any other aspect on their life.

Hmmm Jimmy Swaggart, Jim Bakker and serveral Catholic Priests come to mind.....

Beat me to it. But I was colder about it. :D
Finally I beat you to one...;)


Ah, old school...

No.. really?!

I was making a point of how honor society is of higher status.

And, I know someone whos kid said "fuck" and was kicked out.

It's possible for those in Honor Society to be druggies and murderers.

No.. really?!

I was making a point of how honor society is of higher status.

And, I know someone whos kid said "fuck" and was kicked out.
I also know that in most of the country, nay, most of the world, if you were kicked out for dropping the f-bomb once in a while, most everyone would be out.

No.. really?!

I was making a point of how honor society is of higher status.

And, I know someone whos kid said "fuck" and was kicked out.

Again what is the name of the group!

No person is perfect. No-one. Nada. Now, sure, you may be an awesome parent, but nobody, you, me, Eratiside, your children, nobody is perfect.
Then they are the perfect role models.

Then they are the perfect role models.

Define the perfect role-model.

Well, if you are REALLY angry, just stubbed your toe, or just found out something REAL disturbing... then I say go ahead. If you use it every few words, no.
I tend to agree...but I also tend to use it less (atleast in real life...I drop it a bit online) so that when I do use it, it has more impact.

However, I don't want someone telling me not to say something, so I don't want to be telling others what not to say. Regardless of what they say, when, and under what circumstances.

Because that example is from good ol' Billy Shakespeare, Othello, Act 5...can't think of the scene (Nazz, maybe you can help me here?)
Can't help you with that one, but hey, pulling dirty jokes out of Shakespeare is about as difficult as falling down when drunk.

It's possible for those in Honor Society to be druggies and murderers.

One of the smartest people I have know was stoned out of his mind all through Highschool. He had perfect grades. The only thing we could figure was that was the only way he could deal with us lessor beings. ;) Oh and he was in the honor society that I was in.

Then they are the perfect role models.

No offence, but I wouldn't want my children to take after your little weener kids.

One of the smartest people I have know was stoned out of his mind all through Highschool. He had perfect grades. The only thing we could figure was that was the only way he could deal with us lessor beings. ;) Oh and he was in the honor society that I was in.

Well, that killed the OP's argument.

If you say, "I HATE BUSH!" in front of the White House, agents will not come and kill you.
Well thats politics. I'm talking morals.

Then they are the perfect role models.

All hail the new Messiahs!

Too bad Pride is a mortal sin

Well thats politics. I'm talking morals.

But the situation I presented was censorship.

Now, you see, if I say, "Murder should be legal", in the USA, again, I will not be arrested/killed/punished.

Well thats politics. I'm talking morals.

Politics and "morals" go hand in hand. Look at the repubs.

I also know that in most of the country, nay, most of the world, if you were kicked out for dropping the f-bomb once in a while, most everyone would be out.
Hell, my most prominent academic awards come from material that contained a fuck load of f-bombs...

(Google spell checker suggested "fuckhead" and "cuckold" for "fuckload")

Can't help you with that one, but hey, pulling dirty jokes out of Shakespeare is about as difficult as falling down when drunk.
true 'dat.

mreh...now it's gonna bother me. I'll find it. And I really hope it is Othello...maybe Merchant? Argh...I have failed thee, Professor Martin!

Untrue.
A strong, independent nation uses censorship.

No, a weak nation censors what it deems "indecent." If a nation is able of being destroyed by mere words, it will never stand. It is up to parents to decide what is right for their own children, not governments.

I do believe that Myothrnationisaporsche's argument has been knocked down, burned, and thrown into a river.

Again what is the name of the group!
Name? School name?
Mahanoy HS, Mahanoy City, PA.
Is that what you wanted?

Hell, my most prominent academic awards come from material that contained a fuck load of f-bombs...

(Google spell checker suggested "fuckhead" and "cuckold" for "fuckload")
same here...actually, the one that had the most won me a pretty decent scholarship.

Oh, also a fun little tidbit. The last two people to score a 1600 in my town on the SAT's were hungover and stoned, respectively. One is at Harvard, the other at Yale. On full scholarship.

Name? School name?
Mahanoy HS, Mahanoy City, PA.
Is that what you wanted?

The Honors Society.....

The word "fuck" promotes violence to those who listen.

"Fuck" = violence? I think you just gave us a bit too much information about your sexual preferences. :-P

As far as I know, the only thing the word "fuck" promotes is - and even this is pretty debatable - saying the word "fuck". If I raised a kind, loving, smart kid whose worst fault was that he/she happened to like saying "fuck," I'd be unbelievably proud, and I'd think any parent who wasn't proud of such a child was an idiot.

The Honors Society.....
Fuck if I know..

Amd don't you dare give me that "It wont lead to immoral experiences" bull crap. I know kids get provoked by these words and then read into the more obscene beliefs.

Care to give any evidence for this? Doubtful. I know many people who listen to such music, and watch such movies, and play such video games, and many of them are fine upstanding citizens.

Oh, and you will not like the day that your children go to college, or enter the real world. Not to be devils advocate, here, but many children who are brought up under strict control almost always end up "experimenting" and such in many "immoral" activities. Not saying this will be true for your daughters, but it can.

"Fuck" = violence? I think you just gave us a bit too much information about your sexual preferences. :-P
:fluffle:

My children are perfect.

Please, for the love of God, tell me you don't say that to them. That's a horrible thing to do to a child. I've never met a person whose parents told them they were "perfect" who didn't either grow up to be insufferably self-centered or massively insecure.

:fluffle:

Yay! You have a sense of humor! That makes me feel better about this conversation. :)

Maybe I'm biased, as an artist who has yelled "Fuck" into a microphone enough that most of his music would be stickered by Tipper and the PC-Nazi's as "Innapropriate".

I've got news for you: The word fuck is meaningless. It has no value except that which you attribute to it. It is only offensive because you choose to take it that way. I choose to take it as an adjective, as reasonable as darn, fiddlesticks, or any other mild oath. That's the thing, you don't even get to dictate what music should be condemned by the government as "innapropriate" because it is an underhanded version of outright censorship.

Frankly, I listen to and produce music that would make you curl up into a ball and cry (not just because of how bad it sounds) from profanity, subversiveness, and calling for the destruction of society. Do you know part of the reason I do it? Because of intollerant morons like Tipper Gore, who think art should conform to culture. Well, art has news for culture: You've already mitigated it, you've already belittled it into a vapid, meaningless form of self-enjoyment with neither value nor skill required, but you don't get to own it. Part of art is Individualism; every time that society clamps down upon it, you're only destroying it.

You know what the best part is? I'm an honors student, a musician of some small skill, a writer, the person other students turn to when they need a tutor, I despise sexism, racism, and violence, and I roll my eyes at the antics of my peers when they act like drunken, idiotic hooligans. I heard the word fuck a lot when I was a kid. I grew up listening to music that said 'fuck the government" and I'm just fine. Maybe parents should stop blaming the musicians and accept the blame for themselves. :rolleyes:

Please, for the love of God, tell me you don't say that to them. That's a horrible thing to do to a child. I've never met a person whose parents told them they were "perfect" who didn't either grow up to be insufferably self-centered or massively insecure.

Correct.

Really, now, Myothrnationisaporsche, I believe you've lost.

Either that, or you are another UNA.

Fuck if I know..

My bad. That was Nazz talking about his kid.

In that case, sorry you don't know what honor rolls and or societies involve. I was on the honor roll several times. It's about Grades. I was in 2 honors soicieties. They were about Grades.

Vulgar language was never an offense.

Okay, not the reference I was originally thinking of, but it does hit the same topic I mentioned... (sorry, this is part of my thesis I've been formulating...Nazz, I may TG you about it sometime in the next week once I finish up Merchant)

AAAAAAanyway...
Othello 3.3.157
"Who steals my purse steals trash; 'tis something, nothing;/ 'Twas mine, 'tis his, and has been slave to thousands..."

eta: by the way, for those who are wondering why that is dirty, "purse" in shakespeares day (and even today in some areas) means a vagina. Just realized that could completely soar over peoples heads...

Oh, and you will not like the day that your children go to college, or enter the real world. Not to be devils advocate, here, but many children who are brought up under strict control almost always end up "experimenting" and such in many "immoral" activities. Not saying this will be true for your daughters, but it can.

YES! Keep them out of the dorms! ;)

All I can say is wow!

same here...actually, the one that had the most won me a pretty decent scholarship.

Oh, also a fun little tidbit. The last two people to score a 1600 in my town on the SAT's were hungover and stoned, respectively. One is at Harvard, the other at Yale. On full scholarship.
I even said fuck at one of the ceremonies...something along the lines of, "Who knew you could get all this from writing 'fuck' so often in my homework..."

Please, for the love of God, tell me you don't say that to them. That's a horrible thing to do to a child. I've never met a person whose parents told them they were "perfect" who didn't either grow up to be insufferably self-centered or massively insecure.
If I told them that, and they went off to school and got a B on something they might think they were going to be in trouble. It's ok to be normal, but I espect more from my kids. I tell them I am proud of them. They will never be spoiled or emm.. fluffled to the point of "What the hell? I got a B. I am stupid."

If I told them that, and they went off to school and got a B on something they might think they were going to be in trouble. It's ok to be normal, but I espect more from my kids. I tell them I am proud of them. They will never be spoiled or emm.. fluffled to the point of "What the hell? I got a B. I am stupid."
Expecting high marks is GOOD. Expecting 100% is not.

Maybe I'm biased, as an artist who has yelled "Fuck" into a microphone enough that most of his music would be stickered by Tipper and the PC-Nazi's as "Innapropriate".

I've got news for you: The word fuck is meaningless. It has no value except that which you attribute to it. It is only offensive because you choose to take it that way. I choose to take it as an adjective, as reasonable as darn, fiddlesticks, or any other mild oath. That's the thing, you don't even get to dictate what music should be condemned by the government as "innapropriate" because it is an underhanded version of outright censorship.

Frankly, I listen to and produce music that would make you curl up into a ball and cry (not just because of how bad it sounds) from profanity, subversiveness, and calling for the destruction of society. Do you know part of the reason I do it? Because of intollerant morons like Tipper Gore, who think art should conform to culture. Well, art has news for culture: You've already mitigated it, you've already belittled it into a vapid, meaningless form of self-enjoyment with neither value nor skill required, but you don't get to own it. Part of art is Individualism; every time that society clamps down upon it, you're only destroying it.

You know what the best part is? I'm an honors student, a musician of some small skill, a writer, the person other students turn to when they need a tutor, I despise sexism, racism, and violence, and I roll my eyes at the antics of my peers when they act like drunken, idiotic hooligans. I heard the word fuck a lot when I was a kid. I grew up listening to music that said 'fuck the government" and I'm just fine. Maybe parents should stop blaming the musicians and accept the blame for themselves. :rolleyes:

Tipper Gore did one of the most dishonest things I've ever seen on television. On a program about PMRC, they showed a video with sound of "Nazi Punks Fuck Off" by the Dead Kennedys. The chorus is:

Nazi punks
Nazi punks
Nazi punks-Fuck Off!

Nazi punks
Nazi punks
Nazi punks-Fuck Off!

But, of course, they bleeped toe "Fuck Off." Ms. Gore sat there with a straight face and claimed the video showed Nazi indoctrination.

sorry for the ramble, but that has always pissed me off.

UNA.

Ok I just had a stupid attack. What does that mean?

Fuck if I know..

You said "Fuck" -- now I have to go kill a puppy.

Ok I just had a stupid attack. What does that mean?
UN Abassadorship?

Ok I just had a stupid attack. What does that mean?

UNA-

UN abassadorship. Trolled, got stomped by me and half the forum. Comes back every once and a while. Has puppets, including Romulous Os and MustaphaMond516, of which MM was stomped, personally, by me. Romulous is an extreme leftist, MM a conspiracy nut, and UNA incredibly right-wing.

the Dead Kennedys.

:D

We once had them at my community college!

I even said fuck at one of the ceremonies...something along the lines of, "Who knew you could get all this from writing 'fuck' so often in my homework..."
you would say that to an audience;)

heck, if that is what won the award in the first place, why stop there?

UNA-

UN abassadorship. Trolled, got stomped by me and half the forum. Comes back every once and a while. Has puppets, including Romulous Os and MustaphaMond516, of which MM was stomped, personally, by me. Romulous is an extreme leftist, MM a conspiracy nut, and UNA incredibly right-wing.


Oh yea!!

Forgot about him.

Like I said it was a stupid moment! ;)

Oh yea!!

Forgot about him.

Like I said it was a stupid moment! ;)

Reminding is one of the things I do best!

Fuck if I know..
Now you're on the trolley. At least you have a sense of humour about it...

If I told them that, and they went off to school and got a B on something they might think they were going to be in trouble. It's ok to be normal, but I espect more from my kids. I tell them I am proud of them. They will never be spoiled or emm.. fluffled to the point of "What the hell? I got a B. I am stupid."

"I'm proud of you" = good.

"You are perfect" = bad.

:)

UN abassadorship. Trolled, got stomped by me and half the forum. Comes back every once and a while. Has puppets, including Romulous Os and MustaphaMond516, of which MM was stomped, personally, by me. Romulous is an extreme leftist, MM a conspiracy nut, and UNA incredibly right-wing.

That's actually some good work though.

OK, everyone, got to go to bed now. I wish you the best of luck pwning this guy, and I'll assist you in the morning.

That's actually some good work though.

Well, it does take a tough target to get me to start a whole topic for the debate.

"
"You are perfect"

:)


What if you say that to your GF or spouse?

you would say that to an audience;)

heck, if that is what won the award in the first place, why stop there?
Well, it was for a play that had a character stand up and yell, "With my dick in your mouth!" The decency ship had pretty much already sailed...

What if you say that to your GF or spouse?
you get laid.

Actually, no. I would ALLOW critisism of government and pretty much all opinions on earth. I just wouldn't allow things that are plain wrong, or that would severely offend a whole group of people.

You mean like, Darwinism? Coz there are a hell of a lot of people offended by the suggestion we came from monkeys (before you all jump on me, I am aware that Darwin did not in fact say that, but the people who are against him believe that he said that).

Or what about all religion? I mean, it's plain wrong, and it offends a lot of people. (Not actually my belief, just making a point).

OK, everyone, got to go to bed now. I wish you the best of luck pwning this guy, and I'll assist you in the morning.
Meh, I got my thoughts y'all have yours. As the "homies" say: Tru Dat. oh and Dont B Hatin.

Was there really pwnage?

UNA-

UN abassadorship. Trolled, got stomped by me and half the forum. Comes back every once and a while. Has puppets, including Romulous Os and MustaphaMond516, of which MM was stomped, personally, by me. Romulous is an extreme leftist, MM a conspiracy nut, and UNA incredibly right-wing.
Not to split hairs or anything, but you can't really 'stomp' a troll, I mean their goal is to get responses with ludacris arguments so if you pile it on you've given them what they trolled for, you can't really think of that as stomping.

Well, it was for a play that had a character stand up and yell, "With my dick in your mouth!" The decency ship had pretty much already sailed...
haha...you just reminded me...We took a trip to NYC for a monologue thing...mine was from Assassins, and I forget the entire thing except for one line...

"No. You won't be there. You'll be rushed off to Paris for dinner and a blow job"

oh, the hours I spent fighting the school board to be able to say blow job on stage.

They also were not so amused when I demanded the right to direct a 10 minute scene called "Naked" about two good friends who have sex for the first time. My favorite part is when the boy gets locked in his parents handcuffs, and tries to storm out with his hands behind his back.

good wholesome family fun.

What if you say that to your GF or spouse?

That's a lot more acceptable, simply because by the time a person is old enough to be a girlfriend/boyfriend or spouse, they're likely to have a fairly developed self-opinion. Little kids don't, and can grow up into really emotionally screwed-up adults, either believing that they're horrible failures or that they're infallible gods.

Just the same, I doubt I'd ever call a S.O. perfect. "Perfect for me," maybe...but I wouldn't want him to be perfect for everyone! :)

you get laid.
Yeah, but then next time you have a disagreement she whips out the "but I thought I was perfect" card and you're all, "Bitch, that's when you was shavin' your legs..." and then you're sleeping on the couch and don't know why...

Yeah, but then next time you have a disagreement she whips out the "but I thought I was perfect" card and you're all, "Bitch, that's when you was shavin' your legs..." and then you're sleeping on the couch and don't know why...
You wouldn't happen to have the nickname "monkey" would you? Because I swear, you have the same exact sense of humor as my friend up here...

They also were not so amused when I demanded the right to direct a 10 minute scene called "Naked" about two good friends who have sex for the first time. My favorite part is when the boy gets locked in his parents handcuffs, and tries to storm out with his hands behind his back.

good wholesome family fun.
Quality.

Yeah, but then next time you have a disagreement she whips out the "but I thought I was perfect" card and you're all, "Bitch, that's when you was shavin' your legs..." and then you're sleeping on the couch and don't know why...

:D :D :D

On that note! good night everybody!

You wouldn't happen to have the nickname "monkey" would you? Because I swear, you have the same exact sense of humor as my friend up here...
No, the much less flatering but (I think cool) Walrus.

No, the much less flatering but (I think cool) Walrus.
haha...walrus wins over monkey. You should meet Monkey. It would be a big ol' zoo style comedy hour. Complete with throwing of feces and a good old fashioned tusking.

Well, it was for a play that had a character stand up and yell, "With my dick in your mouth!" The decency ship had pretty much already sailed...

By chance was this play called "The Aristocrats!"?

By chance was this play called "The Aristocrats!"?
Hehe, no. It had a cool title but if I gave it to you someone could google it and I think find out who I am. I think there is a remnant or two of the last production on the web, and people involved in it reference it in thier on-line material...and then you'd all know my real name and be able to bind me or whatever the real reason I don't want you all to know my real name is...

Hehe, no. It had a cool title but if I gave it to you someone could google it and I think find out who I am. I think there is a remnant or two of the last production on the web, and people involved in it reference it in thier on-line material...and then you'd all know my real name and be able to bind me or whatever the real reason I don't want you all to know my real name is...

I knew it. You are really Dr. Dre.

You mean like, Darwinism? Coz there are a hell of a lot of people offended by the suggestion we came from monkeys (before you all jump on me, I am aware that Darwin did not in fact say that, but the people who are against him believe that he said that).

Or what about all religion? I mean, it's plain wrong, and it offends a lot of people. (Not actually my belief, just making a point).

Anyone who is offended by Darwinism or another religion is pretty stupid. (Myself, I'm athiest and believe in evolution.)

Not to split hairs or anything, but you can't really 'stomp' a troll, I mean their goal is to get responses with ludacris arguments so if you pile it on you've given them what they trolled for, you can't really think of that as stomping.

Well, we actually did have an argument with UNA, and beat him. MM was so illogical and plain stupid I abandoned the topic. And Romulous psted, got countered, and disappeared.

Hehe, no. It had a cool title but if I gave it to you someone could google it and I think find out who I am. I think there is a remnant or two of the last production on the web, and people involved in it reference it in thier on-line material...and then you'd all know my real name and be able to bind me or whatever the real reason I don't want you all to know my real name is...
http://tricks2003.planetunreal.gamespy.com/images/smiley/whip.gif
kinky.

Tipper Gore did one of the most dishonest things I've ever seen on television. On a program about PMRC, they showed a video with sound of "Nazi Punks Fuck Off" by the Dead Kennedys. The chorus is:

Nazi punks
Nazi punks
Nazi punks-Fuck Off!

Nazi punks
Nazi punks
Nazi punks-Fuck Off!

But, of course, they bleeped toe "Fuck Off." Ms. Gore sat there with a straight face and claimed the video showed Nazi indoctrination.

sorry for the ramble, but that has always pissed me off.

Yeah. Jello Biafra talks about that on his spoken word album ("I blow minds for a living") on the track "Censorship" (which is a good listen for anyone who wants to hear the opinion of a real artist and not an empty headed hollywood clone-rocker on the issue of Censorship.)

http://tricks2003.planetunreal.gamespy.com/images/smiley/whip.gif
kinky.

If that is kinky then this is just disturbing.

http://ghettobaby.net/Emoticons/linkedtocdixon061504changelinks/animalsextsktsk.gif

If that is kinky then this is just disturbing.

http://ghettobaby.net/Emoticons/linkedtocdixon061504changelinks/animalsextsktsk.gif
Saved!

If that is kinky then this is just disturbing.

http://ghettobaby.net/Emoticons/linkedtocdixon061504changelinks/animalsextsktsk.gif
iirc, Straughn got into some trouble for posting that smiley...not positive, so don't quote me on that...

If that is kinky then this is just disturbing.

http://ghettobaby.net/Emoticons/linkedtocdixon061504changelinks/animalsextsktsk.gif

nahh.

He needs a kilt.

;)

nahh.

He needs a kilt.

;)

The welsh don't wear kilts.

Censorship is your mother
fuck that bitch

Censorship is your mother
fuck that bitch

Spam...

Spam...
Yep, you're right. Your post is spam. The post before you was making a statement, possibly trolling, but your post is definetely spam.

iirc, Straughn got into some trouble for posting that smiley...not positive, so don't quote me on that...

I certainly hope Straughn didn't get in trouble. :eek:

Popular music may be shit, but I doubt it's leading to the alleged moral degradation that conservatives bemoan. As an "artform", it's a crude farce, but as a tool for satanic influence, I'm just not convinced. I think the Right is giving it way too much credit. The music industry isn't thinking "How can we convert children to Satanism more effectively", they're thinking "How can we save money on drum machines".

Why do you feel you need to be anti-censorship?

It keeps the world safe for the future, for our kids.

How? By "protecting" them from information? Keeping them ignorant, unaware, and sheltered? Reality check: Kids don't have the fragile, soft minds their supposed advocates seem to think they have.

Sex? Most kids know at the very least the basics by the age of 11 or so. A significant number are having sex at 12 or 13. You can't protect kids from sex. We don't live in the 1800's or earlier anymore. Why would you want to anyway? Do you "protect" your kids from using the bathroom or eating? It's just another living activity that society has inherited a paranoia of from the Dark Ages. If kids were openly, honestly exposed to the idea of sex by adult society in a healthy manner, they would be less likely to get involved in things like rape, unprotected intercourse, etc. That would be a great deal more valuable than censorship.

Drugs? At least as much as sex, you simply cannot protect your kids from drugs. Unless you are prepared to home school them and keep them inside a special gated community except for occasional supervised excursions into 'the outside', there's just no way. At a school, you can't avoid seeing drug handoffs, knowing that someone has drugs or is high, being offered drugs, etc. etc. Sheltering them from that is not only all but impossible, but the attempt is detrimental. What happens when the kid is exposed to them, you're not around to protect them and shelter them and make a decision for them, and they have to act based on a lack of knowledge that is your fault? They make a bad decision, and it can be traced right back to you.

That's basically the crux of this entire sub-issue of "protection" of children from "inappropriate" material and topics: Kids are going to live their lives. Kids are going to be exposed to drugs and sex. They have to have knowledge and critical thinking and decision-making skills. Depriving them of awareness and "protecting" them from having to make their own decisions and mistakes, to think for themselves, just cripples them for life.

A much better parent would make sure their kids had good thinking and decision-making skills, and would let things run their natural course, giving their kid accurate salient information when requested or necessary.