NationStates Jolt Archive

Has anyone ever seen them? I haven't (nor do I plan to), but I'm just wondering: who has seen them? What are they like? How authentic are they?

I have no idea what you're talking about.

Those?

Well, I can tell you that I do not EVER plan to see that trash, but I can tell you that, given the topic, it would most likely be incredibly disturbing, gory, bloody, and a waste of any sentient being's time.

I have no idea what you're talking about.

It's footage of things dying. And being killed.

AGAIN:

I do NOT watch it.

I've seen a bit of one of them (IV I think...put on by a friend at his place), and what I saw looked fake to me.

Supposedly some of them are more believable, but eh.

I've seen a few, looked real, execution by Ak47 Firing Squad, ext.

Not a waste of time, death is to be celebrated.

I've seen a few, looked real, execution by Ak47 Firing Squad, ext.

Not a waste of time, death is to be celebrated.

I must ask... What are you smoking?

You celebrate something innocent being killed?

I've seen a few, looked real, execution by Ak47 Firing Squad, ext.

Not a waste of time, death is to be celebrated.

.... :headbang:

I have seen them. I don't advise it but if you want to see some brutality then go ahead and watch it but be warned, it's not PG shit. It's definitely gruesome so be prepared. If you're morbid enough to want to see that go ahead.

Don't watch! VERY VERY BAD!

Don't watch! VERY VERY BAD!

---S.S. Pythogria---

"Sir! we've seen someone really smart! SMART HO!"

"Yes! YES! I knew it existed!"

Seriously, good. You have a good ghead on your shoulders.

Example
Guy getting his dick cut off..... x-x

I must ask... What are you smoking?

You celebrate something innocent being killed?

He's high on machismo.

Example
Guy getting his dick cut off..... x-x

*shakes head*

I fear for humanity...

(Faith in Humanity: -150,000 points.)

:(

He's high on machismo.

Huh?

I think I watched the first one. TBH, it's not entertaining. It's more like a very dry documentary: plodding and humorless. I mean if you want to watch them, suit yourself. I don't expect that you will have any great revelations on the meaning of life of anything like that though.

If you have any humanity left in you, they're tough to watch.

*shakes head*

I fear for humanity...

(Faith in Humanity: -150,000 points.)

:(

There is worse...far worse to.

There is worse...far worse to.

No force is worse than humanity. We're a virus, more or less.

There is worse...far worse to.

Please, don't say it. I'm on the verge of vomting profusely, and I'm already nauseous.

Huh?

ma•chis•mo

Pronunciation: (mä-chēz'mō, -chiz'-, mu-), [key]
—n.
1. a strong or exaggerated sense of manliness; an assumptive attitude that virility, courage, strength, and entitlement to dominate are attributes or concomitants of masculinity.
2. a strong or exaggerated sense of power or the right to dominate: The military campaign was an exercise in national machismo.

ma•chis•mo

Pronunciation: (mä-chēz'mō, -chiz'-, mu-), [key]
—n.
1. a strong or exaggerated sense of manliness; an assumptive attitude that virility, courage, strength, and entitlement to dominate are attributes or concomitants of masculinity.
2. a strong or exaggerated sense of power or the right to dominate: The military campaign was an exercise in national machismo.

Ah. Thank you.

Please, don't say it. I'm on the verge of vomting profusely, and I'm already nauseous.
Check the baby thread I take it?

Check the baby thread I take it?

Actually, I only saw a flash and I closed my eyes. And I'm NOT visiting that again. EVER.

Never heard of them.

Example
Guy getting his dick cut off..... x-x


Ugh. I was at a friends house once when some guy downloaded that clip, spun the moniter towards me and my friend, and ran out of the room. It's some pretty sick stuff.

Ugh. I was at a friends house once when some guy downloaded that clip, spun the moniter towards me and my friend, and ran out of the room. It's some pretty sick stuff.

Also of the one with the helicopter mowing down the Iraqis.... >.>?

Actually I love it.they are a must see, so pop some popcorn, invite the kids and sit back and relax. Seriously, its good stuff

Actually I love it.they are a must see, so pop some popcorn, invite the kids and sit back and relax. Seriously, its good stuff

If this is a joke: Please, do not do that again.

If it's true and real: You do not want to know the fate I just wished on you. No, really, you don't.

Actually I love it.they are a must see, so pop some popcorn, invite the kids and sit back and relax. Seriously, its good stuff

I don't know if I would go that far but if you really want to desensitize someone then that's the best way to do it.

Actually I love it.they are a must see, so pop some popcorn, invite the kids and sit back and relax. Seriously, its good stuff

You need HELP you morbid sick freak!

You need HELP you morbid sick freak!

Amen. Really, UNA, you are a troll, and that can be a little funny, but that's going too far.

It's footage of things dying. And being killed.

AGAIN:

I do NOT watch it.

In that case, the only thing I've seen of this sort was of that contractor being beheaded by terrorists in Afghanistan a few years back. It appalled, sickened, and disgusted me all at once. Sad part? The people who showed it to me were laughing and saying "That's so awesome!". On that day, I knew my peers were the most sadistic and cruel people alive(Actually, I figured that long before-these same people were ones who like to bury cats up to there heads and run them over with a lawnmower or dousing a rooster in gasoline and starting it on fire).

In that case, the only thing I've seen of this sort was of that contractor being beheaded by terrorists in Afghanistan a few years back. It appalled, sickened, and disgusted me all at once. Sad part? The people who showed it to me were laughing and saying "That's so awesome!". On that day, I knew my peers were the most sadistic and cruel people alive(Actually, I figured that long before-these same people were ones who like to bury cats up to there heads and run them over with a lawnmower or dousing a rooster in gasoline and starting it on fire).

Oh God... I just vomited RL.

Get new friends... now... for the sake of us all...

Amen. Really, UNA, you are a troll, and that can be a little funny, but that's going too far.
A. Im not a troll
2. How is saying I like movies going to far?

A. Im not a troll
2. How is saying I like movies going to far?

1. Troll: Someone who posts controversial/explicit things to gain attention.

2. Saying you like SICK, MORBID, PATHETIC FOOTAGE OF THINGS BEING KILLED BRUTALLY is going too far.

oh, and I know that Rl, you don't even know what they are/hate them.

Never heard of them.

I think they started coming out in the late 70s or early 80s. My mom rented one when I was about 12 or 13 (82-83). She never did that again. Dreadful stuff. It had the opposite effect of desensitizing me. To this day I can't watch horror/gore films. The scenes with the guys geting executed (electric chair, firing squad, and gas chamber), the plane wreck, and the restaurant serving live monkey (now generally believed to be staged) stick in my mind the most.

Oh God... I just vomited RL.

Get new friends... now... for the sake of us all...

I said peers, not friends. I decked one of them after he recounted one of his and his friends "escapades", and told him I would do much worse if I ever actually saw them doing it. The instances I told you about were just some of the more "mild" acts they have done and find sick enoyment out of.

I've seen a couple of the "Faces of Death" vids. Meh. The effects of a good horror movie from the early eighties are usually more gruesome (with the exception of the live monkey brain dinner).

In that case, the only thing I've seen of this sort was of that contractor being beheaded by terrorists in Afghanistan a few years back. It appalled, sickened, and disgusted me all at once. Sad part? The people who showed it to me were laughing and saying "That's so awesome!". On that day, I knew my peers were the most sadistic and cruel people alive.

The disturbing thing is that there is a huge market for that sort of thing. Civilization is a very thin veneer indeed.

I said peers, not friends. I decked one of them after he recounted one of his and his friends "escapades", and told him I would do much worse if I ever actually saw them doing it. The instances I told you about were just some of the more "mild" acts they have done and find sick enoyment out of.

Good.

And if they do it again, DECK THE MORON! He deserves worse.

And that was "mild"? welcome to the next generation of rapists and serial killers...

A. Im not a troll
2. How is saying I like movies going to far?

It just does x-x

*shakes head*

I fear for humanity...

(Faith in Humanity: -150,000 points.)

:(


I am SO adding that to my sig. :D

I've seen a couple of the "Faces of Death" vids. Meh. The effects of a good horror movie from the early eighties are usually more gruesome (with the exception of the live monkey brain dinner).

Sick...just...sick. Which one was this in?

I am SO adding that to my sig. :D

go ahead!

Sick...just...sick. Which one was this in?
It was also in a few joke movies and things afterwards...

Sick...just...sick. Which one was this in?

I'm not quite sure. I saw them back in the eighties. I haven't been bored enough since to repeat the experience. Like I say, special effects are better.

Anyway, why bother watch something like this? We will all get to experience death first hand eventually. Hopefully without the cameras rolling.

I'm not quite sure. I saw them back in the eighties. I haven't been bored enough since to repeat the experience. Like I say, special effects are better.

Anyway, why bother watch something like this? We will all get to experience death first hand eventually. Hopefully without the cameras rolling.

True...and hopefully that is better anyways

Has anyone ever seen them? I haven't (nor do I plan to), but I'm just wondering: who has seen them? What are they like? How authentic are they?

Some authentic stuff with lots of reenactment and outright fakery.


Faces of Death: Possibly the most famous of all films pointed to as "snuff" is the Faces Of Death series, a sequence of six videos made up of footage of accidents, suicides, autopsies, and executions, liberally peppered with outright fakes scenes. Most of the actual death scenes shown in these films are of the post-death variety. The multiple camera angles give away the acted-out nature of many of the most compelling scenes.
http://www.snopes.com/horrors/madmen/snuff.htm

If anybody thinks Faces of Death is footage of actual deaths, it's because it says so on the video's box, right under the cheesy drawing of the hooded skull with the forked tongue and fangs. Schwartz and company did film real footage of slaughterhouses and autopsy rooms, but any other "real" deaths came from file footage.

"We traveled to all these different film libraries to see what we could find about death and disaster," says Schwartz. "I found this footage of this woman jumping off a building, and it was just incredible footage. But the part of the footage we didn't have was the aftermath. So we (filmed) inserts into the actual footage to match it."

Then how did Schwartz and company acquire the more bizarre footage? "I was the leader of the flesh-eating cult," Schwart admits. "I had scenes in each of these movies. . . . I'm the crazy, drugged-out killer. . . . I play this freaky rapist in the courtroom scene, and they show the rape on video, and it just so happens that the girl (in the rape scene) was this girl I was dating at the time."

You mean, the famous electric chair scene was fake? But the guy was foaming at the mouth and everything!

"We built a cell in a friend's loft, and we lined the guy's mouth with toothpaste," says Schwartz, laughing. "My research material for that: I happened to pick up a Hustler magazine and there was this great article about electrocution that really detailed how a person is executed. . . . And that's what I used as my basis."
http://www.sptimes.com/News/102600/Weekend/Lifting_the_mask_from.shtml

Some authentic stuff with lots of reenactment and outright fakery.



http://www.snopes.com/horrors/madmen/snuff.htm


http://www.sptimes.com/News/102600/Weekend/Lifting_the_mask_from.shtml

It's still stuff that should burn somewhere I do not wish to mention.

It's still stuff that should burn somewhere I do not wish to mention.

In the 8th level of hell?

In the 8th level of hell?

Yes, maybe they should make an even lower level, especially for it.

Yes, maybe they should make an even lower level, especially for it.

9th is lowest....but its frozen there. Nothing can burn! XD

9th is lowest....but its frozen there. Nothing can burn! XD

A lower, HOTTER level.

You mean the 10th level of hell for lawyers that the Onion created? O.O!?

You mean the 10th level of hell for lawyers that the Onion created? O.O!?

No. The 11th level, that I created for absolute and utter crap, like Faces of Death.

No. The 11th level, that I created for absolute and utter crap, like Faces of Death.

Agreed. :D And their creators. x-x

Agreed. :D And their creators. x-x

Yes, them too.

It's times like this I wish Hell existed.

Good.

And if they do it again, DECK THE MORON! He deserves worse.

And that was "mild"? welcome to the next generation of rapists and serial killers...

Already decked one. Haven't seen most of them in almost a year now. Which is a good thing. And about that rape thing? I already know of one who has(unfortunately, there was no way I could convince the girl, who is a good friend, to go to the police-she decided just to push it out and forget about it).

Unfortunately, I know very little about that particular bastard, where he lives and so forth. I hope I never see him again, for fear of what I'll do. These bastards who did this stuff are sick, through and through. I wouldn't doubt if most, if not all, become extremely violent in life. Animals today, people tommorrow.

Already decked one. Haven't seen most of them in almost a year now. Which is a good thing. And about that rape thing? I already know of one who has(unfortunately, there was no way I could convince the girl, who is a good friend, to go to the police-she decided just to push it out and forget about it).

Unfortunately, I know very little about that particular bastard, where he lives and so forth. I hope I never see him again, for fear of what I'll do. These bastards who did this stuff are sick, through and through. I wouldn't doubt if most, if not all, become extremely violent in life. Animals today, people tommorrow.

We're supposed to be the smartest spiecies on Earth?

We're supposed to be the smartest spiecies on Earth?

We're certainly the sickest.

We're certainly the sickest.

No doubt.

:yawns:

There goes my optimism.

If all you wanted to hear was "That's sick, kill them", then dont ask for multiple opinions.:rolleyes:

1. Troll: Someone who posts controversial/explicit things to gain attention.

2. Saying you like SICK, MORBID, PATHETIC FOOTAGE OF THINGS BEING KILLED BRUTALLY is going too far.

oh, and I know that Rl, you don't even know what they are/hate them.

Hm, methinks you should reflect a little. You're the one hanging around this thread for no purpose other than to call people SICK MORBID AND PATHETIC. It might be simpler for you to avoid the discussion.

Its sick stuff. Wether is all "real" or not doesnt matter. It appeals to the lowest morbid curiosities.

If someone really wants my advice- skip all of them. You dont need that material in your memory. It may provide a cheap thrill, but there is nothing positive to them. A waste of time, money and valuable space in your mind.

Start a thread asking for suggestions of worthwhile things to do for yourself or others, instead of watching these. I'll think of some things.

Hm, methinks you should reflect a little. You're the one hanging around this thread for no purpose other than to call people SICK MORBID AND PATHETIC. It might be simpler for you to avoid the discussion.

Erm, you know, I never insulted a person. I only insulted the actual meterial.

It's footage of things dying. And being killed.

AGAIN:

I do NOT watch it.
:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Is it footage of poor little animals dying? Or of humans dying?

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Is it footage of poor little animals dying? Or of humans dying?

Both...

Both...
Only the latter appeals to me. Here's the thing, I'm a vegetarian, but I will eat human without remorse. In other words, I care greatly if animals are hurt, but if humans are hurt, I couldn't care less.

Erm, you know, I never insulted a person. I only insulted the actual meterial.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10754553&postcount=29

And the "Amen" to Asbena's comment here counts.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10754584&postcount=32

Really now. I don't care for these videos either, but it's a little self-righteous to dub someone a troll when you're feeding them like that, isn't it?

Only the latter appeals to me. Here's the thing, I'm a vegetarian, but I will eat human without remorse. In other words, I care greatly if animals are hurt, but if humans are hurt, I couldn't care less.

Wait, wait, wait. You eat human...?

Only the latter appeals to me. Here's the thing, I'm a vegetarian, but I will eat human without remorse. In other words, I care greatly if animals are hurt, but if humans are hurt, I couldn't care less.

Is this sarcasm/trolling? This had better be sarcasm/trolling.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10754553&postcount=29

And the "Amen" to Asbena's comment here counts.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10754584&postcount=32

Really now. I don't care for these videos either, but it's a little self-righteous to dub someone a troll when you're feeding them like that, isn't it?

Still, I only say what I believe is correct.

Wait, wait, wait. You eat human...?
I would if I didn't have any tofu/veggies/fruit

Is this sarcasm/trolling? This had better be sarcasm/trolling.
Read above

Still, I only say what I believe is correct.

So do I. I believe i've already insinuated that you are a hypocrite, sir. Good day.

I would if I didn't have any tofu/veggies/fruit


Read above

Wait. That means... Murder...

Lucky I have boots on

Wait. That means... Murder...
I have plenty of tofu/veggies/fruit. But if I was stranded on a desert island/in the mountains/in the ocean, I'd gladly kill anybody with me, even if it was the cutest female I've ever seen, and then eat them. Don't know what human tastes like, but I think it'll taste yummy.

I have plenty of tofu/veggies/fruit. But if I was stranded on a desert island/in the mountains/in the ocean, I'd gladly kill anybody with me, even if it was the cutest female I've ever seen, and then eat them. Don't know what human tastes like, but I think it'll taste yummy.

Oh. Survival. As long as it doesn't involve killing them...

Ive seen em.

I watch a lot of gore movies, and truthfully, some horror is more startling than those.
Most of what you see on them is indeed real death, but truthfully, watching the news around the time of 9/11 was more shocking that most of what you see on them.

I see a lot of "OMG THATS SO WRONG...HOW CAN YOU WATCH THAT?"
All I can say is, "lighten up people".

Death is merely what you make of it, and seeing dead things, or dead people, is simply observing an object in a state of non-life.
If such things shock or disturb you, dont watch them.

At any rate, its just senseless death, and not very entertaining.

Oh. Survival. As long as it doesn't involve killing them...
But if the government suddenly bans tofu/veggies/fruits, and says that we may only eat meat, well, I'll be eating "meat" all right. Human meat, to be exact. And no, I don't mean THAT kind of "meat", you perverts.

But if the government suddenly bans tofu/veggies/fruits, and says that we may only eat meat, well, I'll be eating "meat" all right. Human meat, to be exact. And no, I don't mean THAT kind of "meat", you perverts.

...

Why?

...

Why?
I respect most animals far more than I respect most humans. Yes, I know humans are techincally animals, but that's not the point. Most animals have a sense of honor. Do most humans? Nope. Most animals are suprisingly truthful. Are most humans? Nope. Most animals are suprisingly loyal to family, clan, pack, etc. Are most humans loyal to their country, their family? Nope.

I respect most animals far more than I respect most humans. Yes, I know humans are techincally animals, but that's not the point. Most animals have a sense of honor. Do most humans? Nope. Most animals are suprisingly truthful. Are most humans? Nope. Most animals are suprisingly loyal to family, clan, pack, etc. Are most humans loyal to their country, their family? Nope.

That's a bit hypocritical, seeing as you are one. Oh, and animals can and will backstab.

And not all humans are dishonorable.

Most animals have a sense of honor. Do most humans? Nope.

Define honour in your terms.

Most animals are suprisingly truthful. Are most humans? Nope.

How can an animal lie?

Most animals are suprisingly loyal to family, clan, pack, etc. Are most humans loyal to their country, their family? Nope.

Why should I be loyal to my country?

That's a bit hypocritical, seeing as you are one. Oh, and animals can and will backstab.

And not all humans are dishonorable.
That's why I put MOST on both the animal part and the human part. Animals only backstab to survive. Do you ever see animals backstab just so they can be comfortable, like humans backstab to do? Hell, I doubt animals can get any comfort now in days, with humans constantly encroaching on their territory.

Hmm, I see the compation of a typical ARA has come into play here...


As for the videos, they are about on the same par at rotten's website.

Cause the Bible says it. :)

My dad made me watch them when I was a kid. They are pretty stupid. The first one has a few instances of actual footage, the rest is re-enactment. They are cheaply made and a waste of time.

I watched the first one at like 6 or something and it didn't even traumatize me. (although you can blame my parents for that)

That's why I put MOST on both the animal part and the human part. Animals only backstab to survive. Do you ever see animals backstab just so they can be comfortable, like humans backstab to do? Hell, I doubt animals can get any comfort now in days, with humans constantly encroaching on their territory.

Actually, no. Chimpanzees backstab to get to higher ranks.

Define honour in your terms.



How can an animal lie?



Why should I be loyal to my country?
What? Do you think most animals to be so stupid they are incapable of lieing? Do you think that just because you can't understand them they are incredibly unintelligent? Look at termites. If they're so stupid, like it seems to me you're saying, how do they work together so well, how do they keep the hive in such perfect order? Animals are suprisingly more intelligent than you might think, my friend.

I respect most animals far more than I respect most humans. Yes, I know humans are techincally animals, but that's not the point. Most animals have a sense of honor. Do most humans? Nope. Most animals are suprisingly truthful. Are most humans? Nope. Most animals are suprisingly loyal to family, clan, pack, etc. Are most humans loyal to their country, their family? Nope.

EVERY single person I know is loyal to their family, certainly more loyal than an animal. I would be extremely surprised if most humans were not loyal to their families. And animals cannot lie, and they don't have a sense of honour. It's just instinct.

Actually, no. Chimpanzees backstab to get to higher ranks.
Yeah, well look how close chimps are related to humans on a genetic scale. I did say I respected MOST (note the word MOST) animals more than humans.

What? Do you think most animals to be so stupid they are incapable of lieing? Do you think that just because you can't understand them they are incredibly unintelligent? Look at termites. If they're so stupid, like it seems to me you're saying, how do they work together so well, how do they keep the hive in such perfect order? Animals are suprisingly more intelligent than you might think, my friend.

No, animals are not incredibly stupid.

But we are smarter. Ever see a temite build a forum?

However, that order comes from instict. We dn't have that instinct, and instead find our own ways.

Yeah, well look how close chimps are related to humans on a genetic scale. I did say I respected MOST (note the word MOST) animals more than humans.

Well, lions too.

EVERY single person I know is loyal to their family, certainly more loyal than an animal. I would be extremely surprised if most humans were not loyal to their families. And animals cannot lie, and they don't have a sense of honour. It's just instinct.
Ugh... Read post above post quoted. You all think that all animals have is instinct, don't you? "They don't have honor, they're just stupid beasts!". Spend some time with animals. You'd be suprised at the honor they have. Look at wolf packs. If one member of the pack is injured, do they just leave that member there? NO. They help him. I consider that to be a sign of honor.

What? Do you think most animals to be so stupid they are incapable of lieing? Do you think that just because you can't understand them they are incredibly unintelligent? Look at termites. If they're so stupid, like it seems to me you're saying, how do they work together so well, how do they keep the hive in such perfect order? Animals are suprisingly more intelligent than you might think, my friend.

Nothing to do with intelligence. It's simply a genetic or instinctive trait that has evolved.

Look at humans. If they're so dishonourable, like it seems to me you're saying, how do they manage to not kill anyone they can get away with killing, how do people go so madly insane that they actually volunteer to defend their country?

Ugh... Read post above post quoted. You all think that all animals have is instinct, don't you? "They don't have honor, they're just stupid beasts!". Spend some time with animals. You'd be suprised at the honor they have. Look at wolf packs. If one member of the pack is injured, do they just leave that member there? NO. They help him. I consider that to be a sign of honor.

Look at a family. If one is injured, to they leave him/her there? NO! They help them.

No, animals are not incredibly stupid.

But we are smarter. Ever see a temite build a forum?

However, that order comes from instict. We dn't have that instinct, and instead find our own ways.
Who says it has to be instinct? Why is it that humans decide that these animals can't be smart enough to build such amazing creations, and simply say that it's instinct? And believe me, humans do have instinct. Fear is instinct. Lust is instinct. Hate is instinct.

Some animals like wolves do so out of nessessity....but they do ABANDON others easily.

Ugh... Read post above post quoted. You all think that all animals have is instinct, don't you? "They don't have honor, they're just stupid beasts!". Spend some time with animals. You'd be suprised at the honor they have. Look at wolf packs. If one member of the pack is injured, do they just leave that member there? NO. They help him. I consider that to be a sign of honor.

If one member of someone's family was injured, I imagine that almost anyone would help them too. Not a lot of people would leave a close family member out to die. Even if they can display honour, it doesn't mean they're more honourable than humans.

Look at a family. If one is injured, to they leave him/her there? NO! They help them.
You'd be suprised at some of the examples I've seen of a family "helping" an injured member.

Who says it has to be instinct? Why is it that humans decide that these animals can't be smart enough to build such amazing creations, and simply say that it's instinct? And believe me, humans do have instinct. Fear is instinct. Lust is instinct. Hate is instinct.

Actually, no, hate is not instict. It is a consious descision.

But I'll believe termites are as smart as I am when I see them build a website or code something.

You'd be suprised at some of the examples I've seen of a family "helping" an injured member.

Every one I've seen has been perfectly honorable and good.d

A robot can build things, like a car. That doesn't mean it has true intelligence. Same goes for termites.

A robot can build things, like a car. That doesn't mean it has true intelligence. Same goes for termites.

A robot is also inorganic, and not alive.

Actually, no, hate is not instict. It is a consious descision.

But I'll believe termites are as smart as I am when I see them build a website or code something.
Did I ever say termites are smarter than humans? No. I simply said they aren't as dumb as everyone says they are.

Now then, let's say someone hits you. Your primary reaction is one of hate, even if that person is the person you love most. Why? Because it is a base instinct to hate anyone who harms you. It may not last long, but you will hate a person if they harm you.

A robot can build things, like a car. That doesn't mean it has true intelligence. Same goes for termites.

Seconded, cause its true! :o

A robot can build things, like a car. That doesn't mean it has true intelligence. Same goes for termites.
But the robot is programed by HUMANS to build the car. I don't believe we ever programed termites to build giant mounds of clay and make complex tunnel systems.

Did I ever say termites are smarter than humans? No. I simply said they aren't as dumb as everyone says they are.

Now then, let's say someone hits you. Your primary reaction is one of hate, even if that person is the person you love most. Why? Because it is a base instinct to hate anyone who harms you. It may not last long, but you will hate a person if they harm you.

Actually, no, it'll probably be annoyance. And what is so wrong with instict anyway?

Every one I've seen has been perfectly honorable and good.d
Yeah... Maybe you should live near Los Angeles...

But the robot is programed by HUMANS to build the car. I don't believe we ever programed termites to build giant mounds of clay and make complex tunnel systems.

Evolution programmed the termites.

Actually, no, it'll probably be annoyance. And what is so wrong with instict anyway?
Not saying there's anything wrong with instinct. Just saying that people are constantly saying that something that is done through intelligence is done through instinct because they don't want to admit that something they consider as small and insignifigant as a termite colony could build such a wonderful and beautiful creation.

Yeah... Maybe you should live near Los Angeles...

(I live in Canada.)

But tell me, what did they do?

Not saying there's anything wrong with instinct. Just saying that people are constantly saying that something that is done through intelligence is done through instinct because they don't want to admit that something they consider as small and insignifigant as a termite colony could build such a wonderful and beautiful creation.
Its hardly beautiful. You call a virus that?

Not saying there's anything wrong with instinct. Just saying that people are constantly saying that something that is done through intelligence is done through instinct because they don't want to admit that something they consider as small and insignifigant as a termite colony could build such a wonderful and beautiful creation.

In the end, my friend, termites are not even close to as smart as us.

Evolution programmed the termites.
By your reasoning, that would mean that it also programmed us. So that would mean that everything we do is instinct as well.

By your reasoning, that would mean that it also programmed us. So that would mean that everything we do is instinct as well.


Most things people do, are based on instinct.

Most things people do, are based on instinct.

No....clearly by reason. >.>

Has anyone ever seen them? I haven't (nor do I plan to), but I'm just wondering: who has seen them? What are they like? How authentic are they?
I've watched a couple when I was a young teenager. I don't really remember much of them except the documentary format made them kind of boring. I preferred gruesome slasher flicks because they really focused on and exaggerated the gory violence even though they weren't real.

By your reasoning, that would mean that it also programmed us. So that would mean that everything we do is instinct as well.

No, because we were given the ability of complex thought and free will, which allows us to make our own decisions independent of instinct. If termites really had intelligence, they would be doing more than just building big mounds.

In the end, my friend, termites are not even close to as smart as us.
I never said that. I'm simply saying, they are far smarter than everyone constantly thinks they are.

Its hardly beautiful. You call a virus that?
Actually, I do consider something as wonderous as a termite mound beautiful. Such small creatures able to build such a marvelous and wonderful thing is surely beautiful. And not instinctual.

(I live in Canada.)

But tell me, what did they do?
Well, when it turned out my brother got into a car accident that wasn't his fault, but the other driver was blaming him anyways, what did my parents do for him? NOTHING. They simply told him to deal with it himself. He was fined 2k for the repairs. Thing is, he didn't have that kind of money. So he got 250 hours of community service. Why? Because my parents decided to be assholes. I'd say its about as bad as if they saw my brother on the side of the road with a broken leg and just drove by not caring.

By your reasoning, that would mean that it also programmed us. So that would mean that everything we do is instinct as well.
Not necessarily. The programming in humans is much more complex and allows for multiple responses in the same situation as well as including instructions for creating novel strategies to accomplish the goals we're genetically programmed to fulfil.

No....clearly by reason. >.>
But would you say most things animals do are based on reason?

I never said that. I'm simply saying, they are far smarter than everyone constantly thinks they are.


Actually, I do consider something as wonderous as a termite mound beautiful. Such small creatures able to build such a marvelous and wonderful thing is surely beautiful. And not instinctual.


Well, when it turned out my brother got into a car accident that wasn't his fault, but the other driver was blaming him anyways, what did my parents do for him? NOTHING. They simply told him to deal with it himself. He was fined 2k for the repairs. Thing is, he didn't have that kind of money. So he got 250 hours of community service. Why? Because my parents decided to be assholes. I'd say its about as bad as if they saw my brother on the side of the road with a broken leg and just drove by not caring.

1. True.

2. It's quite amazing that they do it, but it is instict.

3. That's not an injury.

snip

I'm not quite sure why that justifies hatred of the human race and that all humans are dishonourable scum inferior to animals.

No, because we were given the ability of complex thought and free will, which allows us to make our own decisions independent of instinct. If termites really had intelligence, they would be doing more than just building big mounds.
Tell me, have you ever thought like a termite? How do you know that maybe these termites are having great fun building such great mounds, and that they're doing it of their own free will? Have you seen the insides of some of these mounds? They are rather complex.

Not necessarily. The programming in humans is much more complex and allows for multiple responses in the same situation as well as including instructions for creating novel strategies to accomplish the goals we're genetically programmed to fulfil.
So your saying that humans are genetically programmed to fufill tasks. I do believe that's something along the lines of INSTINCT. And believe me, you'd be suprised to see some of the novel strategies I've seen animals use to survive. And once again, I ask you, how do you know that our programming is more complex than an animals?

No....clearly by reason. >.>


Untrue.

The reasons why, and how we choose a mate are entirely based on instinct.
Phobias of such things as snakes, or large predators are also entirely instinct.

Reproducing.
Eating.

Practically everything we do, is based upon instinct.

All you need to do is take a psych class and this is readily apparent.

1. True.

2. It's quite amazing that they do it, but it is instict.

3. That's not an injury.
1. Thank you for finally understanding something I said

2. How do you know it's instinct? If that's true, then I suppose us building such things as Big Ben or the Statue Of Liberty is instinct, because to your reasoning if animals build giant towering structures, it must be instinct!

3. Yes, but they left him in a desperate situation without help, and they could've easily helped him.

Untrue.

The reasons why, and how we choose a mate are entirely based on instinct.
Phobias of such things as snakes, or large predators are also entirely instinct.

Reproducing.
Eating.

Practically everything we do, is based upon instinct.

All you need to do is take a psych class and this is readily apparent.
Ooo. Your a psychology student? I've always been interested in taking psychology as my major in college. I've got quite a few books on psychology in my room.

1. Thank you for finally understanding something I said

2. How do you know it's instinct? If that's true, then I suppose us building such things as Big Ben or the Statue Of Liberty is instinct, because to your reasoning if animals build giant towering structures, it must be instinct!

3. Yes, but they left him in a desperate situation without help, and they could've easily helped him.

2. The Satue of Liberty is not needed. Homes for termites are.

3. Still, you said INJURY.

1. Thank you for finally understanding something I said

2. How do you know it's instinct? If that's true, then I suppose us building such things as Big Ben or the Statue Of Liberty is instinct, because to your reasoning if animals build giant towering structures, it must be instinct!

3. Yes, but they left him in a desperate situation without help, and they could've easily helped him.


Humans have an inborn need to create.

Ever seen a small child play with blocks?

Well, when it turned out my brother got into a car accident that wasn't his fault, but the other driver was blaming him anyways, what did my parents do for him? NOTHING. They simply told him to deal with it himself. He was fined 2k for the repairs. Thing is, he didn't have that kind of money. So he got 250 hours of community service. Why? Because my parents decided to be assholes. I'd say its about as bad as if they saw my brother on the side of the road with a broken leg and just drove by not caring.
So this whole "humans are without honour" thing goes back to your parents deciding that your brother needs to learn to take care of himself? That's not an injury in the sense that you stated with the wolf pack. That's an unfortunate situation. Guess what....parents all over the world refuse to help their children in similar unfortunate situations. It's part of growing up and becoming independent.

My God. Who knew that the whole "tough love" thing was an excuse to say you'd rather eat a human?

Humans have an inborn need to create.

Ever seen a small child play with blocks?

Do you feel a nagging, compelling need to build a tower?

If termites had any intelligence, they'd know not to go into people's houses.

Not a waste of time, death is to be celebrated.

To celebrate death is to mourn life. I believe you have your priorities hand-in-ass backwards.

Death should be recognized and respected as to ignore it would be make one unappreciative of living.

Do you feel a nagging, compelling need to build a tower?

Yes. o.o

Yes. o.o

Well, I can tell you I don't...

Ooo. Your a psychology student? I've always been interested in taking psychology as my major in college. I've got quite a few books on psychology in my room.


A student?

No.

I have taken psych classes, and am an avid reader of such material, but not a real student.
So, my statement was an educated one, but not a HIGHLY educated one.
I find the human mind fascinating, but am a bit too lazy to persue a career out of it.

<snip>

So your saying that humans are genetically programmed to fufill tasks. I do believe that's something along the lines of INSTINCT. And believe me, you'd be suprised to see some of the novel strategies I've seen animals use to survive. And once again, I ask you, how do you know that our programming is more complex than an animals?
I didn't deny instinct in humans. I actually said it's just more complex than that in animals. The complexity of our programming is evident in the wider range of behaviors found in our species.

Humans have an inborn need to create.

Ever seen a small child play with blocks?
Which would be instinct. But does that mean that it's instinct which tells us HOW to build the buildings? No. Our own intelligence, and the intelligence of the termites, tells us how to build it. Not our instinct.

<snip>
2. The Statue Of Liberty is just an example. Let's just change that example to homes for humans. I do believe homes for humans are needed.

3. Yes, but it's still leaving someone to fend for themselves.

To celebrate death is to mourn life. I believe you have your priorities hand-in-ass backwards.

Death should be recognized and respected as to ignore it would be make one unappreciative of living.


I suggest you watch a funeral in the south, particuarly New Orleans.
Its not a dreary wake-like event.

Upbeat, dixie-jazz is usally played.

They celebrate death, as a part of life, a renewal of a cycle.

Which would be instinct. But does that mean that it's instinct which tells us HOW to build the buildings? No. Our own intelligence, and the intelligence of the termites, tells us how to build it. Not our instinct.


2. The Statue Of Liberty is just an example. Let's just change that example to homes for humans. I do believe homes for humans are needed.

3. Yes, but it's still leaving someone to fend for themselves.

1. Termites. Are. Not. Inteligent. They have a brain smaller than a peanut...

2. Homes are needed. Are homes with plumbing needed?

3. Yes. However, you said INJURY. That means a physical wound.

If termites had any intelligence, they'd know not to go into people's houses.
The problem is, there really isn't any other place for them to go, considering the fact that humans are destroying their enviroment without any remorse, then building homes on top of the termites enviroments.

I suggest you watch a funeral in the south, particuarly New Orleans.
Its not a dreary wake-like event.

Upbeat, dixie-jazz is usally played.

They celebrate death, as a part of life, a renewal of a cycle.

Its a celebration of the circle of life and a new beginning!

I have plenty of tofu/veggies/fruit. But if I was stranded on a desert island/in the mountains/in the ocean, I'd gladly kill anybody with me, even if it was the cutest female I've ever seen, and then eat them. Don't know what human tastes like, but I think it'll taste yummy.
I find that people that become vegitarians because they feel killing animals is wrong, really don't understand the meat industry.

Which would be instinct. But does that mean that it's instinct which tells us HOW to build the buildings? No. Our own intelligence, and the intelligence of the termites, tells us how to build it. Not our instinct..

The need to create, is instinctual.

HOW we learn to builld, or create, is inconsequential to this conversation.

The question was "was building the statue of Liberty, instinctual."

The answer, is "yes".

The sculptors need to create, is instinctual, thus..it was created.

Now, as you point out, what takes it from conception, to a finished product, is intelligence, and skill, but...that wasnt really the question, was it?

Its a celebration of the circle of life and a new beginning!


Bingo.

Much more enjoyable than most funerals.

Well, I can tell you I don't...
But don't you feel the need to make SOMETHING? ANYTHING? I, for example, constantly feel the need to cook. To make something.

I didn't deny instinct in humans. I actually said it's just more complex than that in animals. The complexity of our programming is evident in the wider range of behaviors found in our species.
So your saying that everything we do is based off of instinct, and that there is no such thing as intelligence, and what we percieve as intelligence is just instinct telling us what to do?

1. Termites. Are. Not. Inteligent. They have a brain smaller than a peanut...

2. Homes are needed. Are homes with plumbing needed?

3. Yes. However, you said INJURY. That means a physical wound.
1. Instinct comes from the brain as well. So that would mean that if they don't have a big brain, that means they don't have much intelligence, or much instinct either. You just suicide bombed me, my friend.

2. No, but the plumbing comes from our intelligence. Just as birds making a nest for comfort for their young comes from intelligence. Birds could just simply lay their eggs anywhere and not care how comfortable their babies are. But they use their intelligence to realize how to make their babies comfortable.

3. Let's just leave this one, ok?

Sidenote: TOO MANY PEOPLE RESPONDING! OVERLOAD! OVERLOAD!

The need to create, is instinctual.

HOW we learn to builld, or create, is inconsequential to this conversation.

The question was "was building the statue of Liberty, instinctual."

The answer, is "yes".

The sculptors need to create, is instinctual, thus..it was created.

Now, as you point out, what takes it from conception, to a finished product, is intelligence, and skill, but...that wasnt really the question, was it?
No, but what I was trying to say is the fact that termites are able to build such a maginificent structure isn't purely instinct, as people are saying, but is intelligence. The need to build the structure is instinct, without a doubt. But the design of the structure, the building of it, the make-up of it, all that is intelligence.

But don't you feel the need to make SOMETHING? ANYTHING? I, for example, constantly feel the need to cook. To make something.


So your saying that everything we do is based off of instinct, and that there is no such thing as intelligence, and what we percieve as intelligence is just instinct telling us what to do?


1. Instinct comes from the brain as well. So that would mean that if they don't have a big brain, that means they don't have much intelligence, or much instinct either. You just suicide bombed me, my friend.

2. No, but the plumbing comes from our intelligence. Just as birds making a nest for comfort for their young comes from intelligence. Birds could just simply lay their eggs anywhere and not care how comfortable their babies are. But they use their intelligence to realize how to make their babies comfortable.

3. Let's just leave this one, ok?

Sidenote: TOO MANY PEOPLE RESPONDING! OVERLOAD! OVERLOAD!

No, I don't.

No, there is intelligence. We're having this argument, aren't we?

1. No. A small brain doesn't carry much reason, but mostly instict and vital stuff.

2. No. It's instinct. Explain how most bird's nests are pretty much the same.

3. OK.

No, but what I was trying to say is the fact that termites are able to build such a maginificent structure isn't purely instinct, as people are saying, but is intelligence. The need to build the structure is instinct, without a doubt. But the design of the structure, the building of it, the make-up of it, all that is intelligence.

Prove it.

Only people are reasonable, the rest of the animals are INSTINCT.

2. No, but the plumbing comes from our intelligence. Just as birds making a nest for comfort for their young comes from intelligence. Birds could just simply lay their eggs anywhere and not care how comfortable their babies are. But they use their intelligence to realize how to make their babies comfortable.

!


Birds are notoriously stupid creatures.
Comes from having those itty-bitty brains.
For example, you know why birds chirp so obnoxiously in the morning?
Cause they have teeny little memories, and are re-claiming thier territories every morning.

Not all birds build nests.

and the ones that do...do so out of instinct.
The same thing that tells them to build it in a tree, or fly south for the winter.
A bird less than a year old, will still fly south, even though it has no idea of what "winter" is.

<snip>

So your saying that everything we do is based off of instinct, and that there is no such thing as intelligence, and what we percieve as intelligence is just instinct telling us what to do?


<snip>

Sidenote: TOO MANY PEOPLE RESPONDING! OVERLOAD! OVERLOAD!
No I'm not. I'm saying that much of our motivation comes from instincts that we've evolved as gregarious animals competing for resources with other species and other bands of our own species, and that intelligence is an adaptation that allows us to choose responses and even to choose which instinctive drives are most important and which ones can wait. For example, we're wired for conflict in order to gain food, mates, et cetera. We're also wired for peaceful conflict resolution so we can function as a group to help attain those resources. By using intelligence we create cultures that expand the definition of the band or tribe to include millions of people so that we don't kill our neighbor for his cash, but we still wage war for resources like land.

It's not all intelligence or all instinct, it's a blend of the two. That's why we're so successful as a species.

They celebrate death, as a part of life, a renewal of a cycle.

A new beginning is child birth or building something. It's an example of people sticking there heads in the sand because the reality is just too harsh. It's impossible to imagine someone celebrating over the loss of a friend, who if they do return to such a cycle, will never be able to benifit the 'celebrators' with their former presence.

Death is loss while birth is a gain. One could hardly argue the other way around. Unless the person who dies is a real asshole and the baby born isheavily reliant on their parents for the rest of their life.

No, I don't.

No, there is intelligence. We're having this argument, aren't we?

1. No. A small brain doesn't carry much reason, but mostly instict and vital stuff.

2. No. It's instinct. Explain how most bird's nests are pretty much the same.

3. OK.
You most probably do. You just don't feel it until you see what it is. Maybe you just haven't seen someone shaping metal, and haven't felt the need to make something out of metal. Or maybe you haven't seen someone carving wood, and haven't felt the need to make something out of wood. Believe me, all humans have an instictual need to create.

I was being sarcastic. It's just DCD was essentialy claiming that instinct is the only thing that rules our brains

1. So your saying that just because a brain is small, it won't carry reason. Well, lets enlarge a termites brain to the size of our brains. That's a god damned lot of instinct in our brains, isn't it. Just because a brain isn't big doesn't mean it can't hold intelligence AND instinct.

2. How do you learn how to be a good parent? From your parents. The birds learn how to build nests from their parents. That's why most nests are the same

You most probably do. You just don't feel it until you see what it is. Maybe you just haven't seen someone shaping metal, and haven't felt the need to make something out of metal. Or maybe you haven't seen someone carving wood, and haven't felt the need to make something out of wood. Believe me, all humans have an instictual need to create.

I was being sarcastic. It's just DCD was essentialy claiming that instinct is the only thing that rules our brains

1. So your saying that just because a brain is small, it won't carry reason. Well, lets enlarge a termites brain to the size of our brains. That's a god damned lot of instinct in our brains, isn't it. Just because a brain isn't big doesn't mean it can't hold intelligence AND instinct.

2. How do you learn how to be a good parent? From your parents. The birds learn how to build nests from their parents. That's why most nests are the same

Baby birds don't watch their parents build a nest. Part of it is most certainly programmed into them. How to weave twigs and straw isn't obvious just from looking at the finished product.

Only people are reasonable, the rest of the animals are INSTINCT.
Ok, so your telling me that a mound as complex as a termites mound is made purely from instinct? That absoutely NO intelligence was involved in the making of such a complex building? That such a basic thing as instinct could make something so complex?

Prove it.
Read above.

No I'm not. I'm saying that much of our motivation comes from instincts that we've evolved as gregarious animals competing for resources with other species and other bands of our own species, and that intelligence is an adaptation that allows us to choose responses and even to choose which instinctive drives are most important and which ones can wait. For example, we're wired for conflict in order to gain food, mates, et cetera. We're also wired for peaceful conflict resolution so we can function as a group to help attain those resources. By using intelligence we create cultures that expand the definition of the band or tribe to include millions of people so that we don't kill our neighbor for his cash, but we still wage war for resources like land.

It's not all intelligence or all instinct, it's a blend of the two. That's why we're so successful as a species.
Mmm hmm. So do you think that animals besides humans have a blend of intelligence and instinct?

2. How do you learn how to be a good parent? From your parents. The birds learn how to build nests from their parents. That's why most nests are the same
That doesn't, however, explain how birds nests are essentially the same (or at least incredibly similar) in vastly differing environments, or on different continents. Unless there's a massive bird convention every few generations to discuss proper nest-building technique.

Nesting is instinctive, not just a need for a home. My caged birds, though inside in a VERY nice environment and still being provided everything they need and more, will still build nests in the top of their cage. Why? What compels them to? INSTINCT.

A new beginning is child birth or building something. It's an example of people sticking there heads in the sand because the reality is just too harsh. It's impossible to imagine someone celebrating over the loss of a friend, who if they do return to such a cycle, will never be able to benifit the 'celebrators' with their former presence.

Death is loss while birth is a gain. One could hardly argue the other way around. Unless the person who dies is a real asshole and the baby born isheavily reliant on their parents for the rest of their life.


Maybe you havent seen "The Lion King"?

Them folks think life and death are merely parts of a whole.
No beginning, and no ending.
Thus, death isnt really a "loss" as its a vital part of life, and re-newal.

I think of it like this:

Death is a sign that everything is proceeding as expected.
Without it, we have stasis.
With stasis, comes nothing.

<snip>

Mmm hmm. So do you think that animals besides humans have a blend of intelligence and instinct?
Yes, though certainly less intelligence in lower species.

You most probably do. You just don't feel it until you see what it is. Maybe you just haven't seen someone shaping metal, and haven't felt the need to make something out of metal. Or maybe you haven't seen someone carving wood, and haven't felt the need to make something out of wood. Believe me, all humans have an instictual need to create.

I was being sarcastic. It's just DCD was essentialy claiming that instinct is the only thing that rules our brains

1. So your saying that just because a brain is small, it won't carry reason. Well, lets enlarge a termites brain to the size of our brains. That's a god damned lot of instinct in our brains, isn't it. Just because a brain isn't big doesn't mean it can't hold intelligence AND instinct.

2. How do you learn how to be a good parent? From your parents. The birds learn how to build nests from their parents. That's why most nests are the same

1. Without space, you can't do much. Brain to body size ratio.

2. Birds do not teach each oher to make nests.

Maybe you havent seen "The Lion King"?

Them folks think life and death are merely parts of a whole.
No beginning, and no ending.
Thus, death isnt really a "loss" as its a vital part of life, and re-newal.

I think of it like this:

Death is a sign that everything is proceeding as expected.
Without it, we have stasis.
With stasis, comes nothing.


I commend you good sir(or madame) for excellent points and delivery.

When I said Death is to be celebrated.

I didn't mean "Yay, haha, there dead."

It's more "It sucks there gone, but cheers they no longer have to deal with x."

Where x would be some shit like.. lung cancer.. or other things that come with age/illness(both).

1. Without space, you can't do much. Brain to body size ratio.

2. Birds do not teach each oher to make nests.
Yep. :)

I commend you good sir(or madame) for excellent points and delivery.

When I said Death is to be celebrated.

I didn't mean "Yay, haha, there dead."

It's more "It sucks there gone, but cheers they no longer have to deal with x."

Where x would be some shit like.. lung cancer.. or other things that come with age/illness(both).


/bow.

Danke.

If there is no Death....Hitler would still be around!

What? Do you think most animals to be so stupid they are incapable of lieing? Do you think that just because you can't understand them they are incredibly unintelligent? Look at termites. If they're so stupid, like it seems to me you're saying, how do they work together so well, how do they keep the hive in such perfect order? Animals are suprisingly more intelligent than you might think, my friend.

An animal cannot speak, therefore it cannot tell me untruths - the exception, perhaps, would be primates that learn sign language. However, I don't see what termites building a hive has upon the ability of animals to lie.

can some one explain what exactly these movies are? i've gathered that there rather grafic...but where do they get the film from...

can some one explain what exactly these movies are? i've gathered that there rather grafic...but where do they get the film from...

DISCLAIMER: I do NOT watch these.

They are footage of things being killed/dying. Most is fake, but i's still just gruesome.

Yes, though certainly less intelligence in lower species.
Never said that termites have more or the same intelligence than us.

1. Without space, you can't do much. Brain to body size ratio.

2. Birds do not teach each oher to make nests.
1. Well, there may not be much intelligence, but there will be the same amount of instinct as well. All animals have a balance of intelligence and instinct, including termites. Termites simply put all their intelligence together, and work with one another making those wonderous towers

2. Maybe not, but what does a baby bird see most of the time? It's siblings, its mom, and the NEST.

An animal cannot speak, therefore it cannot tell me untruths - the exception, perhaps, would be primates that learn sign language. However, I don't see what termites building a hive has upon the ability of animals to lie.
An animal cannot speak YOUR language. That doesn't say anything about animals speaking with it's species. I would not think that animals lie to one another. And the termite thing is showing that animals aren't all instinct, but are equal parts instinct and intelligence

Sidenote: Sorry for the delay, but my mom wanted the computer for a while.

1. You can't put intelligence together. Two temites may as well be one termite, mentally.

2. It doesn't analyze it, and it wouldn't remember anything anyway.

1. You can't put intelligence together. Two temites may as well be one termite, mentally.

2. It doesn't analyze it, and it wouldn't remember anything anyway.
1. What I'm saying is that termites work together. By saying that, your saying that humans don't collectively work together. That the builder cannot work with the architect to make a building. That the fisherman cannot work with the cook to make a fish dinner. That the scientist and the astronaut cannot work together to land on the moon. If we cannot add our intelligences together, then we cannot make anything. Termites work together, put their intelligences of what they know about the tunnels to tell every other termite how to work on the tunnels, to make the mound even more complex, to make it larger.

2. Who's to say they don't analyze it. Do scientists know how birds think? Have they analyzed a birds deepest thoughts? Maybe birds do anaylze the nests they were born in.

1. You can't put intelligence together. Two temites may as well be one termite, mentally.

2. It doesn't analyze it, and it wouldn't remember anything anyway.
Weird how they seem to work together in a very organized way though. Many people don't classify a single termite as an individual organism. They take the whole collony as a "superorganism".

Superorganism -
A social insect colony described as a multicellular animal, individual members of the colony are similar to individual cells in an animal http://www.ndsu.nodak.edu/entomology/topics/societies.htm

An animal cannot speak YOUR language. That doesn't say anything about animals speaking with it's species. I would not think that animals lie to one another. And the termite thing is showing that animals aren't all instinct, but are equal parts instinct and intelligence.

I would not think that animals lie to one another either, because they lack a social structure that would enable them to lie. What could they possibly lie about?

Wolf #1: "ORRIGHT WHO PISSED ON MY TERRITORY TREE"
*wolf #2 points its paw at a passing rabbit*

Weird how they seem to work together in a very organized way though. Many people don't classify a single termite as an individual organism. They take the whole collony as a "superorganism".

http://www.ndsu.nodak.edu/entomology/topics/societies.htm
You defenitely said it better than me.

OK, I'm getting out of this one.

I would not think that animals lie to one another either, because they lack a social structure that would enable them to lie. What could they possibly lie about?

Wolf #1: "ORRIGHT WHO PISSED ON MY TERRITORY TREE"
*wolf #2 points its paw at a passing rabbit*
So your saying that ants don't have a social structure? Your saying that lions don't coexist in prides? Your saying cows don't coexist in herds? Because that is what your saying when you say animals don't have social structures.

I would not think that animals lie to one another either, because they lack a social structure that would enable them to lie. What could they possibly lie about?

Wolf #1: "ORRIGHT WHO PISSED ON MY TERRITORY TREE"
*wolf #2 points its paw at a passing rabbit*
Oh, and believe me, if wolves are going to take territories, they will fight, they won't just blame other wolves.

OK, I'm getting out of this one.
Yet another debate won.

I would not think that animals lie to one another either, because they lack a social structure that would enable them to lie. What could they possibly lie about?

Wolf #1: "ORRIGHT WHO PISSED ON MY TERRITORY TREE"
*wolf #2 points its paw at a passing rabbit*


Rabbit: "!?"

Wolf #1 "Right! I'll do ya fer that, ya daft buggah!"

Yet another debate won.
It's not winning if you pigheadedly ignore the other person's points.

So your saying that ants don't have a social structure? Your saying that lions don't coexist in prides? Your saying cows don't coexist in herds? Because that is what your saying when you say animals don't have social structures.

I'm saying that "animals lack a social structure that would enable them to lie", not that they completely lack social structures.

Simonist']It's not winning if you pigheadedly ignore the other person's points.
I wasn't ignoring him. I was proving him wrong. He was constantly saying that animals had no intelligence. I simply said that if animals had no intelligence, how would structures as maginificent as termite mounds be able to be built? He was the one ignoring my view point.

So your saying that ants don't have a social structure? Your saying that lions don't coexist in prides? Your saying cows don't coexist in herds? Because that is what your saying when you say animals don't have social structures.
Well if you accept the "superorganism" idea then ants don't have a social structure. Each collony is an organism, and the individual ant is just like an organ or cell. Kinda like certain creatures called siphonophores. Are they one creature or many very specialized creatures that can't exist apart from each other?

http://www.siphonophores.org/SiphOrganization.php

Yet another debate won.

Actually, no, you didn't win. I'm still not convinced.

I'm saying that "animals lack a social structure that would enable them to lie", not that they completely lack social structures.
Ok, so what would be a social structure that would enable them to lie? A structure like ours, where we do regularly lie? That's my point about the original topic about this debate. Animals are somewhat incapable of lieing, that's why I respect most animals more than I respect most humans.

I wasn't ignoring him. I was proving him wrong. He was constantly saying that animals had no intelligence. I simply said that if animals had no intelligence, how would structures as maginificent as termite mounds be able to be built? He was the one ignoring my view point.
Exactly. So neither of you won. It was just going around and around, neither willing to see the other person's side. From what I was getting out of his side, he wasn't just saying "animals are dumb", it was more to the point that animals DO rely more on instinct. However, I understand the points you were trying to make as well, while he may not have (or may have chosen to ignore them). If anything it was really more of a clusterfuck than a debate, anyway.

Actually, no, you didn't win. I'm still not convinced.
You forfieted though. So technically, I won.

Sometimes lying is to show you care. :)

Well if you accept the "superorganism" idea then ants don't have a social structure. Each collony is an organism, and the individual ant is just like an organ or cell. Kinda like certain creatures called siphonophores. Are they one creature or many very specialized creatures that can't exist apart from each other?

http://www.siphonophores.org/SiphOrganization.php
Yes, but are not multi-celled organisms essentially social structures as well? Each cell of the body helps out the rest of the cells in the body. Without one kind of any of the cells, the body would not be able to survive.

Sometimes lying is to show you care. :)
Or to get ahead. For example, the majority of flirting I hear anywhere, in the media, in real life, is mostly lieing. If anyone is going to flirt with me, I want them to be brutally honest. Painful truth tends to cause less pain then if you find out someone is lieing to you.

You forfieted though. So technically, I won.

Oh well.

Really, your arguments didn't carry much logic.

Oh well.

Really, your arguments didn't carry much logic.
Oh, so I suppose asking you if you've ever thought like a termite to determine if you actually know if a termite uses instinct or intelligence is illogical?

Or to get ahead. For example, the majority of flirting I hear anywhere, in the media, in real life, is mostly lieing. If anyone is going to flirt with me, I want them to be brutally honest. Painful truth tends to cause less pain then if you find out someone is lieing to you.
Awww, really? 'Cause when I'm flirting with a guy, it has nothing to do with whispering sweet nothings and decieving him into liking me.....it's about going out and doing things and playing around and really getting to know one another. Don't know where the lies or harm are in there.

Granted, some people may lie when they flirt, especially in the popularized media, but that doesn't mean lying=flirting as a general rule.

Yes, but are not multi-celled organisms essentially social structures as well?[

No, not really.
Cells just react chemically to each other.

Social structures presume sentience, and hierarchies.


Each cell of the body helps out the rest of the cells in the body. Without one kind of any of the cells, the body would not be able to survive.

Entirely untrue.
The body contains several kinds of cells that are not essential to life.
Dead skin cells, to name just one.

Simonist']Awww, really? 'Cause when I'm flirting with a guy, it has nothing to do with whispering sweet nothings and decieving him into liking me.....it's about going out and doing things and playing around and really getting to know one another. Don't know where the lies or harm are in there.

Granted, some people may lie when they flirt, especially in the popularized media, but that doesn't mean lying=flirting as a general rule.
Note a word I used: MAJORITY. You live in Britian, right? Even if you don't, do you live near Los Angeles? Really, the flirting I hear here is just appauling.

No, not really.
Cells just react chemically to each other.

Social structures presume sentience, and hierarchies.




Entirely untrue.
The body contains several kinds of cells that are not essential to life.
Dead skin cells, to name just one.
1. You compared ant colonies with superorganisms though. So that would mean your saying that ants chemically react with one another to keep the colony in shape and moving?

2. Techincally, dead skin cells aren't part of the body. At least according to my teacher from last year. But then again, I hated her.

Note a word I used: MAJORITY. You live in Britian, right? Even if you don't, do you live near Los Angeles? Really, the flirting I hear here is just appauling.
No, neither. Maybe out here, we're just a little more honest. But even all the time I spend in Cali, never did I experience all that much dishonesty just to get a piece of action, and even less would I expect to hear it if somebody carried a genuine romantic interest.

But then, maybe the age difference between you and I makes a difference. By my age, some people are looking more towards long-term commitment and real connections. Not all, but many.

EDIT: I shall return after lunch

1. You compared ant colonies with superorganisms though. So that would mean your saying that ants chemically react with one another to keep the colony in shape and moving?

2. Techincally, dead skin cells aren't part of the body. At least according to my teacher from last year. But then again, I hated her.


1. No I didnt.
That was somone else.

2. The top layer of your skin, is comprised of dead skin cells.

As for the ants...
Yes. Chemical changes detected by scent are how ants communicate.

Yes, but are not multi-celled organisms essentially social structures as well? Each cell of the body helps out the rest of the cells in the body. Without one kind of any of the cells, the body would not be able to survive.
That's where the "social" idea breaks down. Individuals are needed to form a society. In individuals each cell traces it's history back to the same zygote as every other cell, and each part of the organism can't survive on it's own. Since each cell in a human body came from the original fertilized egg, and can't exist on it's own, we don't consider each human a social structure.

We run into a grey area when we look at creatures like a siphonophore, where each "person" in the animal was "concieved" at a different time, but none can survive independently. It fits one of the criteria but not both. Ants are the same way, but much closer to a social structure. An individual worker ant can function and survive on it's own for some time, but it's incomplete. It lacks any reproductive structures, for example.

Disclaimer: I'm not a biologist, I just read alot and may have gotten some things in this post wrong.

1. No I didnt.
That was somone else.

2. The top layer of your skin, is comprised of dead skin cells.

As for the ants...
Yes. Chemical changes detected by scent are how ants communicate.
1. Oh. Sorry. I thought you were DCD

2. Yes, but is it still working with your body? Nope

3. Yes, but are they reacting with each other? No. They're telling each other what's happened and where to go to make the colony more effective.

Why did this start abut explicit videos and go to ant colonies?

Ya...they don't have much brains lol.

Why did this start abut explicit videos and go to ant colonies?

The thread evolved...

Why did this start abut explicit videos and go to ant colonies?
Because I said something about I'd rather eat humans than any other animals. Then someone said why. Then I said because I respect animals more than humans. Then they asked why. Then I said because they have more honor. Then they said they don't because they're only instincts. Then I said they have intelligence because if they only had instincts how in the non-existint gods name do termites build such magnificent mounds. Then you and me had a little merry-go-round. Now we're talking about whether or not animals actually have a social structure.

Because I said something about I'd rather eat humans than any other animals. Then someone said why. Then I said because I respect animals more than humans. Then they asked why. Then I said because they have more honor. Then they said they don't because they're only instincts. Then I said they have intelligence because if they only had instincts how in the non-existint gods name do termites build such magnificent mounds. Then you and me had a little merry-go-round. Now we're talking about whether or not animals actually have a social structure.

Perhpas you could start a new thread for it?

1. Oh. Sorry. I thought you were DCD

2. Yes, but is it still working with your body? Nope

3. Yes, but are they reacting with each other? No. They're telling each other what's happened and where to go to make the colony more effective.


2. Of course it is!

Without the top layer of your skin.....hello dangerous infection!'

3. OF COURSE THEY ARE.
Communication with each other is ENTIRELY reacting to the input recieved from the one your communicating with.

What dont you get?

I think you should stop.
If your not going to think your responses out, its not really debating.

2. Of course it is!

Without the top layer of your skin.....hello dangerous infection!'

3. OF COURSE THEY ARE.
Communication with each other is ENTIRELY reacting to the input recieved from the one your communicating with.

What dont you get?

I think you should stop.
If your not going to think your responses out, its not really debating.
2. Oh. True. One more reason for me to hate my 7th grade teacher.

3. Yes, but what I'm saying is are they reacting like cells react to one another in a body? No. They tell each other what to do in order to make the colony more effective. Not like cells where they tell each other what to do in order to make the body work. Wait. That's essentially the same thing. Son of a bitch. I am wrong. You win.

But ant colonies still aren't superorganisms.

Ok, so what would be a social structure that would enable them to lie? A structure like ours, where we do regularly lie? That's my point about the original topic about this debate. Animals are somewhat incapable of lieing, that's why I respect most animals more than I respect most humans.

Language, for one - animals may communicate to some degree, but I doubt an animal can have a discussion with another animal about who ate the rabbit carcass before it could be given to the pups. Sorry, but you'll have a very hard time convincing me otherwise on that.

Maybe you havent seen "The Lion King"?

Them folks think life and death are merely parts of a whole.
No beginning, and no ending.
Thus, death isnt really a "loss" as its a vital part of life, and re-newal.

So the individual does not matter?

A great person, whose achievements where grand, passes away never to bless the world with their presence again. Surely there would be some mourning or would they just look at the body and go "Well at least the circle of life didn't unravel and send us up shit's creek without a paddle."

That's a very positive way to look at one of the worst aspects of living.

This thread is not appropriate for this forum. Locked.

Well, lions too.


Male lions, when they drive another male out of his territory, not only take over the outcast's harem of lionesses, but kill all the cubs.

Many of the primates and monkeys wage war on each other.

Wolves, for all I like them, are not 'honorable'. They select one member of the pack to be the one singled out for abuse and torment.

Rather human, that.