NationStates Jolt Archive

The only way I can link this together is to join the war/conflict with the hero/martyr of that struggle. Be patient while I post the poll. Please explain why you voted as you did, and don't be offended if I didn't include your choice; I can't think of them all!!

Be patient while I post the poll.

Patience is for the weak.

My cause: Resistance of totalitarian government.

My martyr: This guy. (http://edition.cnn.com/SPECIALS/1999/china.50/inside.china/art.overview/link.1989.tiananmen.jpg)

Let me clarify that this is a multiple-choice poll, so if you have more than one favorite you can choose so.

I had to go with William Wallace and "Stonewall" Jackson. As did martyrs in all other causes, both men believed what they fought for was right and were willing (and did) to die for that cause. And because Wallace and Jackson are part of my heritage and culture, they are a little closer to my heart.

Let me clarify that this is a multiple-choice poll, so if you have more than one favorite you can choose so.

Are those the only causes or martyrs you could think of?

Peter Lalor - Eureka Stockade. He wasn't a martyr though & went on to play an important role in Victorian politics.

http://www.parliament.vic.gov.au/speaker/former/lalor.htm

A very narrow poll, if I may say. Four obsure Americans & one Scot?

Joan d'Orleans

She looked like Mila Jovovich :cool:

Eureka Stockade, we lost, but we still challenged an unjust government.

My martyr: This guy. (http://edition.cnn.com/SPECIALS/1999/china.50/inside.china/art.overview/link.1989.tiananmen.jpg)

I agree. Mind numbing, the amount of courage and will that had to take.

3 choices for Texas? While I support any self determination movement, I really don't think Texas is important enough to merit 3 choices.

Dr. Cynthia Maung

http://www.time.com/time/asia/2003/heroes/cynthia_maung.html

Ummm, your poll was a bit biased. Particularly towards Texas. I pick Michael Collins, Irish revolutionary and patriot, creator of modern guerilla warfare!

Ummm, your poll was a bit biased. Particularly towards Texas. I pick Michael Collins, Irish revolutionary and patriot, creator of modern guerilla warfare!

There's many people who'd call him a terrorist, you know.

http://www.popartuk.com/g/l/lgPO7028.jpg

enuff said

obi wan kenobi :p

Peter Lalor - Eureka Stockade. He wasn't a martyr though & went on to play an important role in Victorian politics.

http://www.parliament.vic.gov.au/speaker/former/lalor.htm

A very narrow poll, if I may say. Four obsure Americans & one Scot?

Eureka Stockade, we lost, but we still challenged an unjust government.

Yay. :)

maybe someone will post a name after this that i will wish i had said instead...

but the top of my list is martin luther king jr. he devoted his life to civil rights, he gave his life for civil rights, he was phenomenally successful. he did what needed to be done with the least violence possible.

what more could you ask for in a hero?

There's many people who'd call him a terrorist, you know.

Yeah, not the Irish though... :cool:

I'm utterly shocked by the lack of religious people who frequent these forums. No one has even mentioned our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ (TM). He's not my fave though, since I'm atheist and everything :p

My vote goes to Leon Trotsky for fighting against the evils of Stalinism which has corrupted communism since its creation.

This poll sucks. There are causes other than independence, and there are ways to fight for your cause other than war.

My vote goes to Leon Trotsky for fighting against the evils of Stalinism which has corrupted communism since its creation.Er...no offense, but Stalinism didn't come about till about 100 years after the concept of communism was conceived.

Ironhide, Cybertronian War.

Hmmmm. Why do 4 of the 5 "causes" have to do with preserving slavery?

C'mon, no Jim Jones???

Kidding kidding. I realize that was a terrible joke, dont' set the marmisets on me...

Voted "other". Anybody that goes is a hero to me. Maybe a catagory, "grunts".

*sits zoning out in front of crap poll*

*realizes it's a crap thread too*

*blurts out - *

My favourite cause is Santa Cause!

Hmmmm. Why do 4 of the 5 "causes" have to do with preserving slavery?

well, since it seems all americans ever do is rebel when they can't get their way.
. . .

slavery just happens to be outlawed by everyone else! :rolleyes:

(je suis un americain, mes amis stupides)

Patience is for the weak.

My cause: Resistance of totalitarian government.

My martyr: This guy. (http://edition.cnn.com/SPECIALS/1999/china.50/inside.china/art.overview/link.1989.tiananmen.jpg)

I am still surprised that the tank wasn't destroyed by running over this guys BALLS.

Sun Yat-sen. Overthrowing the Chinese Qing dynasty and establishing a Chinese republic.

David Ben-Gurion, helped found the Jewish State and was the first PM of Israel.

http://www.time.com/time/time100/leaders/profile/bengurion.html

I am still surprised that the tank wasn't destroyed by running over this guys BALLS.

I don't think he was actually run over.

I would like to third the Eureka Stokade/Peter Lalor.

It was our Alamo, and it should have sparked a much larger rebellion, but we were- as now- too prosperous and complacent to care. :(

I don't think he was actually run over.
He was not. Bystanders dragged him out of the way.

Oh, and Marinus van der Lübbe.

I don't think he was actually run over.

Not actually my point.

Oh and I watched it on the news and he wasn't.

Not actually my point.

You had a point? :p

You had a point? :p

Yes, but I lost it a couple of years ago when I started posting to this place called NS General.

*stares down the well of lost points*
It´s a sink, really...

Yes, but I lost it a couple of years ago when I started posting to this place called NS General.

Heh, didn't we all.

I know it's around here somewhere...*mutters*

Heh, didn't we all.

I know it's around here somewhere...*mutters*

Don't try to find them, it ruins all the fun.

I didn't vote as I can't find a good choice, still an interesting concept though.

Although I admired they idea of Wallace, the facts are very different to what most people believe (i.e Braveheart), and I can't really support Scottish independence either as Scotland would have been, and still would be, crippled without the union with the other countries of the UK.

And please no Scots start flaming me about this as I've heard all the arguments before, usually at about 10:30 in the pubs off Byres road in Glasgow.

I gotta say though others stand out for me that have been mentioned here and some that haven't,

Nelson Mandela,
Ghandi
Mother Teresa (sp???)
Martin Luther King Jnr
Malcolm X
everyone who tore down the berlin wall

Anyone else who stood up to be counted for their belief against the odds, right or wrong you have to admire their courage.

http://www.popartuk.com/g/l/lgPO7028.jpg

enuff said

Andy Warhol is your favorite cause? :D

Restoration of the Habsburg Monarchy.

I don't see Austria or Hungary really being all that useful, and at least peace would been maintained in the Balkans and a bulwark against the Russians.

The only way I can link this together is to join the war/conflict with the hero/martyr of that struggle. Be patient while I post the poll. Please explain why you voted as you did, and don't be offended if I didn't include your choice; I can't think of them all!!


My favorite(s):

Bowie, Crockett, and Travis.

Reason:

Resistance of totalitarian government.

Hmmmm. Why do 4 of the 5 "causes" have to do with preserving slavery?

Because of course the evil Northerners wanted to oppress Dixie and the innocent slave-owners there...

Shouldn't one need to actually get killed for the cause to qualify for this thread?

Well, Stauffenberg comes to mind.
And Robert Blum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Blum).
And I can't believe no one mentioned Liebknecht (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Liebknecht) and Luxemburg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosa_Luxemburg).

Hmmmm. Why do 4 of the 5 "causes" have to do with preserving slavery?

Actually, the Texas revolution had little to do with preserving slavery.

1. Slavery continued to exist de-facto in Mexico up until the 1870's, despite it being technically illegal. (my American History professor. :D)

2. The majority of the Texas denizens did not own slaves. ("Three Roads to the Alamo", by William C. Davis)

3. The causes for the Texas revolution had to do mostly with Santa-Anna becoming a dictator. This was the reason many anti-slavery Northerners supported the Revolution and some even volunteered to fights (Walter Lord, a "A Time to Stand")

4. READ the Texas declaration of independence.

Shouldn't one need to actually get killed for the cause to qualify for this thread?

Well, Stauffenberg comes to mind.
And Robert Blum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Blum).
And I can't believe no one mentioned Liebknecht (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Liebknecht) and Luxemburg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosa_Luxemburg).

Recently I've been wondering whether Stauffenberg was so much of a Martyr. The man was a full-fledged Nazi who expressed intense like for the anti-semitic parts of the Nazi system and was often devoted to the cause. He just didn't like the way Hitler was running the show.

Gandhi
Biko
M L King
Romero
Jean D' Arc

Recently I've been wondering whether Stauffenberg was so much of a Martyr. The man was a full-fledged Nazi who expressed intense like for the anti-semitic parts of the Nazi system and was often devoted to the cause. He just didn't like the way Hitler was running the show.
He wasn't democratic, so much is true. But then, which German was, after the Weimar Republic?

But this is the first time I heard that he was actually a Nazi or antisemitic. If you have any credible links, it'd be great though.

The Bundeswehr would also be interested I'd think, because Stauffenberg is a major character and role model for them.

He wasn't democratic, so much is true. But then, which German was, after the Weimar Republic?

But this is the first time I heard that he was actually a Nazi or antisemitic. If you have any credible links, it'd be great though.

The Bundeswehr would also be interested I'd think, because Stauffenberg is a major character and role model for them.

It's rather odd...I could have sworn the wikipedia article I read the other day stated he was anti-semitic and pro-Nazi, but the Stauffenberg article states that he wasn't. I do apologise - I might have had the wrong article. I'll keep looking though and edit this if I find anything.

My mind must be slipping...

EDIT: I reread the wikipedia article. Possibly it was edited, as I'm sure there was something about him commenting to his cousin that he liked Nazi policies. But I can't find the edit in the History section, so I must have read something else or got it wrong. My apologies.

Er...no offense, but Stalinism didn't come about till about 100 years after the concept of communism was conceived.
Since the creation of Stalinism not since the creation of communism.

Since the creation of Stalinism not since the creation of communism.Ah, okay, just checking. ;)

Shouldn't one need to actually get killed for the cause to qualify for this thread?
Well, definitionally, yes, a martyr would have to die, but putting your life on the line for a cause and not dying is as courageous as putting your life on the line and dying because the actual killing usually isn't done by the martyr.

Besides, nobody knows what happened to the Tank Man, but he's just as deserving, if not more deserving of recognition than a lot of the people mentioned.

My favorite(s):

Bowie, Crockett, and Travis.

Reason:

Resistance of totalitarian government.

What?!

Those guys??

You do realize that the Alamo, and its surrounding countryside belonged entirely, and rightfully...to Mexico, dont you?

We turned it into a military fort, becuase after declaring "Manifest Destiny", we invaded, and occupied it, right?

That means we ran in, and declared all of Texas to rightfully belong to us, becuase "God says so!"

Those men, where defending territory wich didnt belong to them.
They werent really defending anyones home.
THEY were the invaders, and Mexico, were repelling the BAD GUYS.

How can you possibly idolize that?

Making the USA live up to it's principles is a great cause. Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. is a respectable martyr for his work in racial equality and economic justice.

Well, definitionally, yes, a martyr would have to die, but putting your life on the line for a cause and not dying is as courageous as putting your life on the line and dying because the actual killing usually isn't done by the martyr.

Besides, nobody knows what happened to the Tank Man, but he's just as deserving, if not more deserving of recognition than a lot of the people mentioned.

One news show I watched (maybe 20/20) reported he was arrested after the demonstration, and has not been heard from since.

Hes likely dead, or rotting in some dank hole.

Cast Iron Cojones.

http://www.popartuk.com/g/l/lgPO7028.jpg
Andy Warhol is your favorite cause? :Dhuh?? what is an Andy Warhole? (and why is he important)

While this may not be a cause directly in your sense. These men stood by their orders and did what they could.

I admire those French Foreign Legion men at this battle:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Camar%C3%B3n

I know that they didn't kill him, but John McCain WOULD be near the top of my list, if he were dead, that is. El tiene juevos grandes. Defending some piss poor country with no natural resources that nobody cares about (South Vietnam) is more moral fortitude than I have. Especially if I had to spend 5 years in solitary confinement, having my fingernails ripped out with pliers and the like, lose the war, and then come home and be spit on for it.

What?!

Those guys??

You do realize that the Alamo, and its surrounding countryside belonged entirely, and rightfully...to Mexico, dont you?

We turned it into a military fort, becuase after declaring "Manifest Destiny", we invaded, and occupied it, right?

That means we ran in, and declared all of Texas to rightfully belong to us, becuase "God says so!"

Those men, where defending territory wich didnt belong to them.
They werent really defending anyones home.
THEY were the invaders, and Mexico, were repelling the BAD GUYS.

How can you possibly idolize that?

This is ridiculous. Most of the people rebelling in Texas who were nominated for the poll were rebelling for Texas's independence, not to create another US state. Although Manifest Destiny obviously had an impact later, Texas had every right to want independence especially when a crazy totalitarian like Santa Anna is coming to power. Even if the Texans solely fought for Manifest Destiny, its clear that Texas has become far more prosperous now that it is apart of the US than it everward in Mexico. Why? Because America is wonderful and Mexico sucks. Its a nasty truth, but its true.

While this may not be a cause directly in your sense. These men stood by their orders and did what they could.

I admire those French Foreign Legion men at this battle:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Camar%C3%B3n
The Legion is famous for being absolutly insane anyway...

One news show I watched (maybe 20/20) reported he was arrested after the demonstration, and has not been heard from since.

Hes likely dead, or rotting in some dank hole.

Cast Iron Cojones.
I've heard all sorts of things, including that. I've heard that he might live off in the Chinese countryside, been killed within hours of his protest, is locked up, etc. I guess we'll never know, but enigmas are awesome.

This is probably favorite:
http://www.rawa.org/meena.html

Check her out.

has anyone mentioned Simon Bolivar?

http://www.popartuk.com/g/l/lgPO7028.jpg
huh?? what is an Andy Warhole? (and why is he important)

Please please please please please tell me you're kidding.

(In case you're not)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_warhol

Andy painted the Marilyn Monroe picture that you posted of Che. He was one of the avant guard of Pop Culture art.

I'm going to say JESUS!!!! who died for your immortal souls!!! ahhahaha!!! repent!!!


Seriously though? Mabye Che?

What?!

Those guys??

You do realize that the Alamo, and its surrounding countryside belonged entirely, and rightfully...to Mexico, dont you?

We turned it into a military fort, becuase after declaring "Manifest Destiny", we invaded, and occupied it, right?

That means we ran in, and declared all of Texas to rightfully belong to us, becuase "God says so!"

Those men, where defending territory wich didnt belong to them.
They werent really defending anyones home.
THEY were the invaders, and Mexico, were repelling the BAD GUYS.

How can you possibly idolize that?

First of all, I want y'all to know I ain't biased towards Texas. I was born there but have lived in the great state of Arkansas since I was 3 years old. Notice I didn't include anyone from here, although I could have listed David O. Dodd.

Secondly, the "4 out of 5" causes were not supporting preservation of slavery, but I won't go into argument on that one.

Thirdly, and in response to the above quote, You are correct in your very first statement, but lose your head after that. It is true Texas (Tejas) belonged to Mexico. "We" did not turn it into a military fort. A handful of rebels living in Texas holed up in the old Spanish mission after denying General Santa Ana their loyalty. They were not declaring Texas belonged to them, but rather to the citizens and not one man; a dictator. They wished Texas to be an independent republic where one could come to freely live and not have to embrace Catholicism and answer to Santa Ana in order to obtain citizenship.

You ask how can I "idolize" that? The same way I honor and respect those who fight for liberties unselfishly and sacrificially, even if I disagree (although I agree here); The American Revolution, War for Southern Independence, Scottish Independence, even Martin Luther King Jr. I don't like the extreme his followers have carried "civil rights" to, but I respect his stand and call for peace.

And, lastly, I didn't include this in the poll because I didn't want to start a religious debate, but I should insert my ultimate heroes are those who died, not defending, but embracing the Cause of Christ. Jesus was not my hero; He is my Saviour! Those martyrs who were burned at the stake, broiled alive, fed to lions, killed by gladiators, boiled in oil, drowned, sawed in half, tied to a ox and dragged through the streets until dead, etc. and not denying the Christ who saved them and died for them are my true heroes!!

Please please please please please tell me you're kidding.

(In case you're not)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_warhol

Andy painted the Marilyn Monroe picture that you posted of Che. He was one of the avant guard of Pop Culture art.

Im pretty sure he was talking about Che, and not Warhol.

Im pretty sure he was talking about Che, and not Warhol.

He asked who Andy Warhol was...

"if you tremble with indignation at every injustice then you are a comrade of mine." - CHE GUEVARA

Well, I agree with a lot of the people here (Ghandi, tank guy etc.) but just to show people I actually do know something (:p ), I'll just add Engelbrekt Engelbrektsson.

He led a rebellion against the king of Sweden at the time (a danish fellow, Eric of Pomerania) to give more rights to the common people of Sweden, and particularily in his home area of Bergslagen (mining district). He succeeded, but was later murdered by one of the nobels. He is said to be one of the people who made Sweden into what it is today. He also came from my hometwon :D