NationStates Jolt Archive

I want you to read this news from the AP about Zacharias Moussaoui, who is a typical terrorist:

Moussaoui Criticizes His Defense Lawyers, Says He Would Like to See Sept. 11 Happen 'Every Day'

04-13-2006 5:20 PM
By MATTHEW BARAKAT, Associated Press Writer


ALEXANDRIA, Va. -- Confessed al-Qaida conspirator Zacarias Moussaoui said Thursday it made his day to hear accounts of Americans' suffering from the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks and he would like to see similar attacks "every day."

Taking the witness stand for the second time in his death-penalty trial Thursday, Moussaoui mocked a Navy sailor who wept on the stand as she described the death of two of her subordinates.

"I think it was disgusting for a military person" to cry, Moussaoui said of the testimony of Navy Lt. Nancy McKeown. "She is military, she should expect people at war with her to want to kill her."

Asked if he was happy to hear her sobbing, he said, "Make my day."

Moussaoui said he had "no regret, no remorse" about the 9/11 attacks. Asked by prosecutor Rob Spencer if he would like to see it happen again, Moussaoui responded: "Every day until we get you."

Moussaoui also said on cross-examination that he is convinced President Bush will free him before the end of his term and that he will return to London.

Spencer tried several times to get Moussaoui to say he didn't really believe that, but Moussaoui was insistent.

"I haven't doubted it for one single second," said Moussaoui, adding that the vision came to him in a dream just like his dream of flying a plane into the White House.

He also argued that he could not get a fair trial so close to the Pentagon and he criticized U.S. support for Israel.

Moussaoui testified that he believes his court-appointed lawyers are working against him and that if he'd had control over his defense, he would have argued that he should escape the death penalty and be available for a prisoner swap if American troops are captured overseas.

Moussaoui, as defiant on the witness stand as he has been at the defendant's table throughout the trial, testified against the advice of his court-appointed lawyers and attacked them before the jury that must decide whether to sentence him to death or to spend life in prison.

Offering a lengthy explanation of why he hates Americans, Moussaoui criticized the United States' support for Israel. He said Muslims have been at war with Christians and Jews for centuries. Israel, he said, is "just a missing star in the American flag."

Moussaoui told jurors that Islam requires Muslims to be the world's superpower as he flipped through a copy of the Koran searching for verses to support his assertions. One he cited requires non-Muslim nations to pay a tribute to Muslim countries.

"We have to be the superpower. You have to be subdued. We have to be above you," Moussaoui said. "Because Americans, you are the superpower, you want to eradicate us."

At one point, defense lawyer Gerald Zerkin asked Moussaoui if he thought he was helping his case when he testified earlier that he planned to pilot a plane into the White House on Sept. 11.

"I was putting my trust in God, so from an Islamic point of view, yes," Moussaoui responded, acknowledging that non-Muslims might view his testimony as harmful to his case.

At several points during his afternoon testimony, Moussaoui acknowledged that he has lied when it has suited his interests throughout the course of his four-year case.

Defense lawyers have said Moussaoui is lying about his role in Sept. 11 _ the worst terrorism attack ever on U.S. soil _ in the hopes of achieving martyrdom through execution.

Moussaoui testified Thursday that "for the last four years, I have been fighting" against the death penalty. He said he considered the consequences of his previous testimony about his role in Sept. 11 and "decided to just put my trust in God, tell the truth and time will tell."

Assailing his court-appointed lawyers, Moussaoui said: "You have put your vested interest in keeping this case in your hands, above my interest to save my life."

Moussaoui suggested they preferred the fame that comes from handling a high-profile trial rather than seeking a change of venue to move the case away from Virginia, a state with a reputation for jurors amenable to the death penalty.

In April 2002, when he was serving as his own defense counsel, Moussaoui filed a motion seeking to move the trial, citing an overrepresentation of government employees in the area. He also said there was more intense media attention in the northern Virginia area due to the Sept. 11 attack on the Pentagon, which is a short distance from the courthouse.

U.S. District Judge Leonie Brinkema, however, rejected the claim and said Moussaoui would be able to get an impartial jury.

Zerkin had asked him if he believed that his defense team was in a conspiracy to kill him. Moussaoui responded that they have been engaged in "criminal non-assistance."

Earlier, Moussaoui's lawyers opened his defense by seeking to convince jurors to spare his life and put him in a place from which he could never escape.

James E. Aiken, the first defense witness in the second phase of Moussaoui's death-penalty trial, said Moussaoui would always require the highest level of supervision and would be isolated not only from the outside world but also from other prisoners.

"I don't care how good he is ... I don't care how compliant he is. He will be in the security envelope as long as he lives," Aiken said.

Moussaoui's defense team is expected to argue in the next few days that his life should be spared because of his limited role in the 9/11 attacks. They plan to present evidence that he is mentally ill and that his execution would only play into his dream of martyrdom.

Moussaoui is the only person charged in this country in connection with the Sept. 11 attacks. The jury deciding his fate has already declared him eligible for the death penalty by determining that his actions caused at least one death on Sept. 11.

Even though he was in jail in Minnesota at the time of the attacks, the jury ruled that lies told by Moussaoui to federal agents a month before the attacks kept them from identifying and stopping some of the hijackers.

Associated Press writer Michael J. Sniffen contributed to this report.


Look at how your enemy mocks you. See how he laughs at your people when they mourn the deaths of loved ones. Remember, this is not just one person who's like this, this isn't a single psycho. Moussaoui is your average terrorist, in fact, he is tame compared to some. This is the reason why we won't negotiate with them: They are cowards, they are psychotic, and they think either they die or we die.

I'll tell you this: We are not the ones who are going to die.

Moussaoui is officially a badass. Fighting for his people instead of college tuition like our own mercenary -oops "voluntary"- armed forces.

That navy chick deserved what she got. If you can’t take the thought of everyone around you dieing, then don’t get involved in a fucking war.

Do you have any remorse? Moussaoui is scum. The lady has all the right to cry, as she actually has a conscience unlike the terrorist that mocks her.

He is evil. Did she ask for her friends to be killed for no reason? No. Then why do you get on the side of the enemy?

Moussaoui is officially a badass. Fighting for his people instead of college tuition like our own mercenary -oops "voluntary"- armed forces.

That navy chick deserved what she got. If you can’t take the thought of everyone around you dieing, then don’t get involved in a fucking war.

No he's officially a sociopath. Glad you look up to him.

The man is no terrorist, unless his plot is to try to kill us all through laughter.

He's a joke. Deliberately fulfilling every single stereotype in trying to antagonise the court as much as possible.

He is to be ridiculed, not feared.

Do you have any remorse?
No.
Moussaoui is scum. The lady has all the right to cry, as she actually has a conscience unlike the terrorist that mocks her.
It seems to me that this mans morality is very developed. Maybe not In a way that I agree with it, but it is foolish to deny that it is there. He fights for his people, which are perpetually opressed by the United States. If we would leave them alone, cut back on our military and stop suporting Isreal they would have no problem with us.
He is evil.
Life isn’t a Disney movie.
Did she ask for her friends to be killed for no reason? No.
No. She asked to be paid to kill "sand niggers." Heaven forbid the ignorant savages fight back.
Then why do you get on the side of the enemy?
He is not my enemy.
To paraphrase a great man and athlete, I ain't got no quarrel with those AL Queda."

No.

So your morality should be put into question.

It seems to me that this mans morality is very developed. Maybe not In a way that I agree with it, but it is foolish to deny that it is there. He fights for his people, which are perpetually opressed by the United States. If we would leave them alone, cut back on our military and stop suporting Isreal they would have no problem with us.

So wanting the deaths of thousands of civilians is "highly developed morality" to you"? He murders for a twisted version of a religious belief.

Life isn’t a Disney movie.

So recognizing that a sociopath is "evil" is now cartoonish?

No. She asked to be paid to kill "sand niggers." Heaven forbid the ignorant savages fight back.

Sounds like some projection on your part. Show me where she said that.

He is not my enemy.
To paraphrase a great man and athlete, I ain't got no quarrel with those AL Queda."

Then you support the slaughter of thousands. The ones you support wouldn't have any problem killing you though. I guess that's alright though.

Talking of death only serves to propagate this vicious cycle. Some Americans believe that these terrorists are out to oppress them, and it's a kill or be killed situation. Some Muslims believe that these Americans are out to oppress them, and it's a kill or be killed situation. However, most, on both sides, don't believe this to be case, but destruction is very easy to propagate and you only need a handful of people to cause mass destruction. And for everyone who dies he or she will have many friends and family or may be polarised into thinking the same way.

The only way to solve this problem is create a cross community link, where it's us and them together, and seeking to stop those people who would seek to undermine the friendship. Only problem is building up this trust is insanely difficult.

He's a caricature of the Muslim terrorist. He is providing his perceived enemies with ammunition to continue to do the very things he thinks he's fighting against.

Islam is currently infected with a bunch of radicals who want to slaughter and kill all who don't agree with them, much like Christianity during the Crusades, or atheism during the time of the Soviet Union. The problem is that Islam hasn't had its own version of a complete "Enlightenment" yet, so there are still a bunch of radicals who want everyone to go back to the 13th century or earlier.

He's a caricature of the Muslim terrorist. He is providing his perceived enemies with ammunition to continue to do the very things he thinks he's fighting against.
We are not trying to eradicate Islam, we are trying to eradicate Islamic terrorism. There is a world of difference.

99% of Muslims have no problems with America.

1% of Muslims want us dead.

The war is against Islam, but only 1% of it, because that 1% is the only danger, not the other 99%.

We are not trying to eradicate Islam, we are trying to eradicate Islamic terrorism. There is a world of difference.

99% of Muslims have no problems with America.

1% of Muslims want us dead.

The war is against Islam, but only 1% of it, because that 1% is the only danger, not the other 99%.

Who is "we"? Surely you speak not for all the people out there who would like to see all Muslims killed.

Who is "we"? Surely you speak not for all the people out there who would like to see all Muslims killed.
I speak for the vast majority of Americans, not the occasional crackpot.

The vast majority of Americans do not have a problem with Islam, but they do have a problem with the terrorists.

I speak for the vast majority of Americans, not the occasional crackpot.

The vast majority of Americans do not have a problem with Islam, but they do have a problem with the terrorists.

The vast majority of Americans will be motivated through fear to believe whatever you want them to, if you're smart. And Moussaoui will be used as an example of how Muslims want to destroy the United States, and will be used to motivate the vast majority of Americans to put into power whoever will keep them the safest.

I want you to read this news from the AP about Zacharias Moussaoui, who is a typical terrorist:

*snip*

Look at how your enemy mocks you. See how he laughs at your people when they mourn the deaths of loved ones. Remember, this is not just one person who's like this, this isn't a single psycho. Moussaoui is your average terrorist, in fact, he is tame compared to some. This is the reason why we won't negotiate with them: They are cowards, they are psychotic, and they think either they die or we die.

I'll tell you this: We are not the ones who are going to die.

I love how you take the story of one psychopath and claim he is "average" and "tame compared to some."

Meethinks thou doest protest too much.

I love how you take the story of one psychopath and claim he is "average" and "tame compared to some."

Meethinks thou doest protest too much.
He has the average mindset of the Islamic terrorist. Would you not agree the average Islamic terrorist wants us all either dead or practicing their twisted form of Islam?

The vast majority of Americans do not have a problem with Islam, but they do have a problem with the terrorists.
Let us hope, then, that the vast majority of Americans can tell the difference.

He has the average mindset of the Islamic terrorist. Would you not agree the average Islamic terrorist wants us all either dead or practicing their twisted form of Islam?

Now watch how I extend "average terrorist" to "average Muslim terrorist" to "average Muslim".

He has the average mindset of the Islamic terrorist. Would you not agree the average Islamic terrorist wants us all either dead or practicing their twisted form of Islam?

He's a buffoon. Your attempt to make him into the bogeyman gives him more respect than he deserves and furthers his agenda.

You know, I think his defence might have a point. He doesn't seem like a terrorist, more like someone who wants to be a terrorist. But that's just me.

By the way, can anyone explain to me what those sound recordings and all that stuff of the attacks had to do with anything?

They are accusing him of not telling them that it was going to happen, correct?
Then isn't that what they have to prove? Are they just blatantly trying to influence the jury to give him death? And if they are, is that ethical?

You know, I think his defence might have a point. He doesn't seem like a terrorist, more like someone who wants to be a terrorist. But that's just me.

By the way, can anyone explain to me what those sound recordings and all that stuff of the attacks had to do with anything?

They are accusing him of not telling them that it was going to happen, correct?
Then isn't that what they have to prove? Are they just blatantly trying to influence the jury to give him death? And if they are, is that ethical?

Very little of what the prosecution has done is ethical, even though they were essentially gift-wrapped this case on conspiracy charges.

The problem is that Islam hasn't had its own version of a complete "Enlightenment" yet, so there are still a bunch of radicals who want everyone to go back to the 13th century or earlier.Hahaha! Do you have any idea what Islamic countries were like back in the 13th century and earlier? Do you have any idea how all the literature of the Ancient Meditarrean survived the Middle ages? Go read a history book.

You know, I think his defence might have a point. He doesn't seem like a terrorist, more like someone who wants to be a terrorist. But that's just me.

By the way, can anyone explain to me what those sound recordings and all that stuff of the attacks had to do with anything?

They are accusing him of not telling them that it was going to happen, correct?
Then isn't that what they have to prove? Are they just blatantly trying to influence the jury to give him death? And if they are, is that ethical?

We could give a fair trial, but why not give a good show instead.

We could give a fair trial, but why not give a good show instead.
Because thanks to the current political climate we can make the public believe they are watching both when we are in fact giving them neither. =S

Moussaoui wants to be a martyr by getting executed and the United States wants an Al Qaeda effigy they can burn to put on a pageant. I'd say they're sucking each other rather nicely at this point.

You know, I think his defence might have a point. He doesn't seem like a terrorist, more like someone who wants to be a terrorist. But that's just me.

By the way, can anyone explain to me what those sound recordings and all that stuff of the attacks had to do with anything?

They are accusing him of not telling them that it was going to happen, correct?
Then isn't that what they have to prove? Are they just blatantly trying to influence the jury to give him death? And if they are, is that ethical?
Ever seen a capital offense trial in the US? They’re all pretty much like this when the case is even marginally high profile.

What's this nonsense?


Moussaoui is far from a typical terrorist, he is an incapable, raving madman.

As the testimony of real terrorists used in his trial indicates, real terrorists went to lengths to get him away from their operations.

Ever seen a capital offense trial in the US? They’re all pretty much like this when the case is even marginally high profile.

Ridiculous.

Ridiculous.
Are you honestly saying that our nation’s prosecutors do not appeal to a jury’s emotions in an attempt to find innocent and guilty men and women guilty?

Are you honestly saying that our nation’s prosecutors do not appeal to a jury’s emotions in an attempt to find innocent and guilty men and women guilty?

Of course not. I never even implied such a thing.

But to compare ever capital trial to the Moussaoui trial is far-fetched. Most defendants try to to end the day by cursing the jury, for example.

He's a buffoon. Your attempt to make him into the bogeyman gives him more respect than he deserves and furthers his agenda.


Exactly, I wouldn't doubt that in his heart of hearts, Moussaoui thinks "All my life I have been a bufoon, and nothing has gone my way... but now the Americans will martyr me! Thank you god!"

Moussaoui is officially a badass. Fighting for his people instead of college tuition like our own mercenary -oops "voluntary"- armed forces.

That navy chick deserved what she got. If you can’t take the thought of everyone around you dieing, then don’t get involved in a fucking war.
The reason you think the military is made up of "mercenaries" is because you have no sense of duty and no courage, so how are you gonna recognize other people's courage? The folks who join the military do it primarily to protect America, the college tuition is nice, but that's not the main reason. I'm not defending everything the military did (Vietnam comes to mind), but it's not the generals that start wars, it's the presidents, so take it up with them.

The bottom line is that the guy who's sweating 2 liters a day in 100degree-plus weather in Iraq is doing it so you could have your freedoms, and so you could criticize him if you so choose.

A little appreciation would be nice, but hey, this is a free country.

Islam is currently infected with a bunch of radicals who want to slaughter and kill all who don't agree with them, much like Christianity during the Crusades, or atheism during the time of the Soviet Union. The problem is that Islam hasn't had its own version of a complete "Enlightenment" yet, so there are still a bunch of radicals who want everyone to go back to the 13th century or earlier.
atheism during the time of the soviet union? really? Soviets invaded 3 countries in 50 yrs and the USA how many 15? 20? 25? death toll? Reagan alone responsible for 250,000 dead......2,000 dead of 9/11 pales in comparison to the havoc the US has caused world wide of course those dead innocents were commies so don't count as human beings. .....enlighten me please in the USA's effort to bring terrorists to justice when the US bombed a Panamaian neighbourhood and killed a thousand men women and children was anyone locked away in Guacamole Bay for terrorist activities? apparently the USA has it's version of "enlightenment" a bunch of radicals who want everyone to go back to the 13th century or earlier

atheism during the time of the soviet union? really? Soviets invaded 3 countries in 50 yrs and the USA how many 15? 20? 25? death toll? Reagan alone responsible for 250,000 dead......2,000 dead of 9/11 pales in comparison to the havoc the US has caused world wide of course those dead innocents were commies so don't count as human beings. .....enlighten me please in the USA's effort to bring terrorists to justice when the US bombed a Panamaian neighbourhood and killed a thousand men women and children was anyone locked away in Guacamole Bay for terrorist activities? apparently the USA has it's version of "enlightenment" a bunch of radicals who want everyone to go back to the 13th century or earlier
Stick with your free sex and beer.

Those things you mentioned, the USA was working in its interest to end communism, which was imperialistic and bent on world-domination. Of course the USA is somewhat imperialistic, but at least we give lip service to freedom. Anyway, I'm not saying those things are moral, or that they should have happened, but we were only defending ourselves.

What he's been spouting is hardly some big surprise, you'll find these views pretty mainstream among not just 'terrorists' but also ordinary muslims from the most developed countries all the way to the bottom of the pile. But the important thing is that we shouldn't get worked up over instances like this, it's just another one of them reverting to his base instincts. The only way we should be dealing with this is in a cold, emotionless and savagely brutal way, fighting for victory no matter how far we have to go. It's only when the west scraps all this rubbish about treating our enemies humanely and fairly that we'll win. Start by giving Moussaoui the most brutal public execution you could ever imagine.

haha. you have to take away freedoms and fight "terrorists" in order to achieve "freedom". Sounds vaguely familiar....

What he's been spouting is hardly some big surprise, you'll find these views pretty mainstream among not just 'terrorists' but also ordinary muslims from the most developed countries all the way to the bottom of the pile. But the important thing is that we shouldn't get worked up over instances like this, it's just another one of them reverting to his base instincts. The only way we should be dealing with this is in a cold, emotionless and savagely brutal way, fighting for victory no matter how far we have to go. It's only when the west scraps all this rubbish about treating our enemies humanely and fairly that we'll win. Start by giving Moussaoui the most brutal public execution you could ever imagine.

Boy you're a real strategic and propaganda genius.

First of all, trying to execute Moussaoui is a half-assed attempt by the Bush Administration to throw a bone at all the 9-11 victims and their relatives as well as trying to show the world that they're "doing" something about Al Qaeda despite fucking it up big time. He's just an effigy they want to burn in proxy of the real terrorists and masterminds who they let get away. If you execute him, you're giving him the martyr status he wants and Bin Ladin more propaganda coup to incite recruitment drives and anti-Western attacks.

Second of all, discarding morals after so many years of bitching at other nations about human rights abuses and proclaiming your country to be the greatest in the world is hypocrisy on a grand scale that'll again be a propaganda wet dream to Al Qaeda. Oh sure you might get plenty of dead Muslims like you cream in your pants about, but that just means the rest of the 1.3 billion who aren't raving jihadists will be marginalized by the "Bin Ladin was right all along" crowd and might even join up the cause.

What he's been spouting is hardly some big surprise, you'll find these views pretty mainstream among not just 'terrorists' but also ordinary muslims from the most developed countries all the way to the bottom of the pile. But the important thing is that we shouldn't get worked up over instances like this, it's just another one of them reverting to his base instincts. The only way we should be dealing with this is in a cold, emotionless and savagely brutal way, fighting for victory no matter how far we have to go. It's only when the west scraps all this rubbish about treating our enemies humanely and fairly that we'll win. Start by giving Moussaoui the most brutal public execution you could ever imagine.


"Them" and their "base instincts" :rolleyes:

But never fear, we are to lower ourselves to fighting in a "savagely brutal way." We have to destroy the village in order to save it. :headbang:

Islam is currently infected with a bunch of radicals who want to slaughter and kill all who don't agree with them, much like Christianity during the Crusades, or atheism during the time of the Soviet Union. The problem is that Islam hasn't had its own version of a complete "Enlightenment" yet, so there are still a bunch of radicals who want everyone to go back to the 13th century or earlier.

How well said.

Hahaha! Do you have any idea what Islamic countries were like back in the 13th century and earlier? Do you have any idea how all the literature of the Ancient Meditarrean survived the Middle ages? Go read a history book.

Perhaps it's better to compare that to Europe's classical period?

The bottom line is that the guy who's sweating 2 liters a day in 100degree-plus weather in Iraq is doing it so you could have your freedoms...


Classic.

Iraq was impinging on American freedoms.

Classic.

Exactly, I wouldn't doubt that in his heart of hearts, Moussaoui thinks "All my life I have been a bufoon, and nothing has gone my way... but now the Americans will martyr me! Thank you god!"

"Hail Allah! 'Cause everyone's a heeeeroooo!"

Hahaha! Do you have any idea what Islamic countries were like back in the 13th century and earlier? Do you have any idea how all the literature of the Ancient Meditarrean survived the Middle ages? Go read a history book.

We know EXACTLY what they were like in the 13th Century. They're still there. The point is, we moved on. They didn't.

We know EXACTLY what they were like in the 13th Century. They're still there. The point is, we moved on. They didn't.

How nice and xenophobic. You realise that in the 13th Century and further, Islamic countries were extremely cultured and civilised, keeping countless texts safe and creating countless scholars and academics?

We know EXACTLY what they were like in the 13th Century. They're still there. The point is, we moved on. They didn't.
Learn. (http://www.templemount.org/islamiad.html)

Moussaoui is officially a badass. Fighting for his people instead of college tuition like our own mercenary -oops "voluntary"- armed forces.



How does it matter what motivates him?

If you murder 5,000 innocent people for free, you're still a murderer.

If you kill a terrorist and save a bunch of hostages for a salary, you still saved a bunch of human live.

How does it matter what motivates him?

If you murder 5,000 innocent people for free, you're still a murderer.

If you kill a terrorist and save a bunch of hostages for a salary, you still saved a bunch of human live.

So mercenaries aren't murderers? :confused:

Would this not depend on the situation?

Cops are mercenaries, too - would you claim all cops are murderers?

Or are you saying the money paid for the deed affects it in any way?

I want you to read this news from the AP about Zacharias Moussaoui, who is a typical terrorist:

I don't think he's typical, the reason he wasn't on a plane is because the terrorists thought he was too crazy to be reliable, at this point he's just fucking with the court trying to get a death sentence, he wants to be a martyr and he missed his chance because he was too crazy. If there's any justice in the world he'll miss it again for the same reason.

Boy you're a real strategic and propaganda genius.

First of all, trying to execute Moussaoui is a half-assed attempt by the Bush Administration to throw a bone at all the 9-11 victims and their relatives as well as trying to show the world that they're "doing" something about Al Qaeda despite fucking it up big time. He's just an effigy they want to burn in proxy of the real terrorists and masterminds who they let get away. If you execute him, you're giving him the martyr status he wants and Bin Ladin more propaganda coup to incite recruitment drives and anti-Western attacks.

Second of all, discarding morals after so many years of bitching at other nations about human rights abuses and proclaiming your country to be the greatest in the world is hypocrisy on a grand scale that'll again be a propaganda wet dream to Al Qaeda. Oh sure you might get plenty of dead Muslims like you cream in your pants about, but that just means the rest of the 1.3 billion who aren't raving jihadists will be marginalized by the "Bin Ladin was right all along" crowd and might even join up the cause.
We shouldn't have to rely on acting all nice to muslims in order to beg them not to attack us. If we were to be absolutely merciless when dealing with these people then we wouldn't have to worry about what they think about us. If they were too afraid to try attacking us due to the brutal consequences then why should we care? Relying on kissing their arses is just weakness. Why give them any concessions when we posess the military capabilities to easily destroy them?

The scary thing is a bunch of knuckleheads like this dope were able to hijack and fly airplanes into buildings ....all the while right under the noses of the ...ummmm FBI...CIA...POLICE ,,,INS,, NSA...etc. etc. etc....dog catchers ..etc. Not only that but this .." typical " one was cuaght before like minded types of his ilk actually succeded in their quest for martyrdom and killing of innocent civilians ...he was caught with flight manuals and software on flight procerures...and other evidence that indicated he was up to no good reguarding air craft..commercial air craft ..and the alphabet agencys all were aware of his ties to terrorism....


So I ask ..what the fuck ??? Its like being invaded by the three stooges and losing .

He's a caricature of the Muslim terrorist. He is providing his perceived enemies with ammunition to continue to do the very things he thinks he's fighting against.
Yeah, and I hope he continues. Maybe if his point of view spreads we can have the war that part of me wants. A major war of genocide against those nations where people riot over cartoons and people honor Osama.

We shouldn't have to rely on acting all nice to muslims in order to beg them not to attack us.

Once more genius, you completely evade the point.

It's not about begging the fanatics to not attack us which they'll do anyways. The point is not to piss off the rest of the Muslim population into seeing the fanatics as being right and joining their cause.

You assume Muslims are a hivemind of terrorists, which is Mistake Number One. There are over 1.3 billion throughout the world and if even half were fanatical suicide bombers like you want to believe they are, they would significantly outnumber the overextended and spread out US Military.

If we were to be absolutely merciless when dealing with these people then we wouldn't have to worry about what they think about us. If they were too afraid to try attacking us due to the brutal consequences then why should we care?

Mistake Number Two. You underestimate or dismiss religious convictions readily. Indiscriminately murdering Muslims because of their religion regardless or not they're in the same region as the terrorists, much less sympathize with them is going to tell those nice, respectable and quiet Muslim majority that "Hey, maybe this Bin Ladin was onto something when he said America wants to eradicate Islam and Muslims." And when it comes to defending their religion, these people do not back the fuck down at all. You can see that with the terrorists alone who in their twisted thought processes sincerely believe they're defending their twisted version of Islam.

Relying on kissing their arses is just weakness. Why give them any concessions when we posess the military capabilities to easily destroy them?

Mistake Number Three. You associate Diplomacy with Appeasement. Again, the terrorists don't give a shit whether or not we beg them to back off and how much we kiss their asses. It's about not pissing off the other Muslims into joining the terrorists. And treating them like cockroaches to step on and spray is only going to give the terrorists more reason to gloat "we told you so" to the moderates who are going to feel like being reasonable is becoming less and less of an option.

You should have named your nation Nowhere, because it pretty much describes how far your narrow and bigoted foreign policy views would take the United States were Bush or his handlers stupid enough to follow them.

Yeah, and I hope he continues. Maybe if his point of view spreads we can have the war that part of me wants. A major war of genocide against those nations where people riot over cartoons and people honor Osama.

And of course you'd be happy to run an internment camp for any surviving Muslims before you shoot them yourself, men women and children. Yep, spreading freedom and democracy one corpse at a time.

:rolleyes:

Stick with your free sex and beer.

Those things you mentioned, the USA was working in its interest to end communism, which was imperialistic and bent on world-domination. Of course the USA is somewhat imperialistic, but at least we give lip service to freedom. Anyway, I'm not saying those things are moral, or that they should have happened, but we were only defending ourselves.

"communism, which was imperialistic and bent on world-domination" unlike the USA and it's corporate culture

"Of course the USA is somewhat imperialistic" like saying the Pope is somewhat catholic

"at least we give lip service to freedom" a great comfort to the citizens of all the dictatorships the US supports, the right for US corporations to do buisness vs, their personal freedom, how nice

"we were only defending ourselves", really? other than WW2 was the US ever attacked or threatened in the last 100 yrs by any third world nation that it has attacked. Even the Soviet Union was attacked first by the US in 1918 so it should be of little surprise that they regarded the USA and the West as Imperialistic agressors and a threat.

US imperialism has never been about protecting and spreading freedom, it's always been about the US economy and the right to exploit the worlds resources. The poor of the world need to accept that or be prepared to be bombed for their own good.

And of course you'd be happy to run an internment camp for any surviving Muslims before you shoot them yourself, men women and children. Yep, spreading freedom and democracy one corpse at a time.

:rolleyes:
Who said anything about Freedom and Democracy? Part of me is genocidally angry. At least I can admit my negative emotions. And yes, part of me would be happy to run a camp and shoot them myself. The rest of me is commited to civilization and civilized behavior.

Yeah, and I hope he continues. Maybe if his point of view spreads we can have the war that part of me wants. A major war of genocide against those nations where people riot over cartoons and people honor Osama.
I would perhaps be willing to let you if I wasn't convinced that doing so would rope the innocent into the conflict too.

What we need is a war of a different kind. Not of guns or of political revolution but of actual mental attitudes. What we need is a way of thinking that leaves religious fanaticism and tribal superiority dead and buried and a way to instill this into everyone throughout humanity.

"communism, which was imperialistic and bent on world-domination" unlike the USA and it's corporate culture

"Of course the USA is somewhat imperialistic" like saying the Pope is somewhat catholic

"at least we give lip service to freedom" a great comfort to the citizens of all the dictatorships the US supports, the right for US corporations to do buisness vs, their personal freedom, how nice

"we were only defending ourselves", really? other than WW2 was the US ever attacked or threatened in the last 100 yrs by any third world nation that it has attacked. Even the Soviet Union was attacked first by the US in 1918 so it should be of little surprise that they regarded the USA and the West as Imperialistic agressors and a threat.

US imperialism has never been about protecting and spreading freedom, it's always been about the US economy and the right to exploit the worlds resources. The poor of the world need to accept that or be prepared to be bombed for their own good.

Bu quiet before I open up another mcDonalds next to your house .

The communist use tanks and we use hamburgers .

Long live the big MAC !

Who said anything about Freedom and Democracy? Part of me is genocidally angry. At least I can admit my negative emotions. And yes, part of me would be happy to run a camp and shoot them myself. The rest of me is commited to civilization and civilized behavior.

no doubt you are angry and rightly so, but now you know the anger millions of people have felt toward the USA for decades for similar and worse atrocites commited by americans in their countrries.

The people you should be really angry with is your government for it's international policies and yourself for not paying attention to what they were doing in your name, you elected them.

no doubt you are angry and rightly so, but now you know the anger millions of people have felt toward the USA for decades for similar and worse atrocites commited by americans in their countrries.

The people you should be really angry with is your government for it's international policies and yourself for not paying attention to what they were doing in your name, you elected them.
The US hasn't done much to earn the hate of most middle easterners. We propped up the shah of Iran and the house of Saud, but why the fuck are the Syrians, Egyptians, Libians (Ok, the last two are N. African), Jordanians, etc. angry with us for.

Bu quiet before I open up another mcDonalds next to your house .

The communist use tanks and we use hamburgers .

Long live the big MAC !

History says differently.

Communists used the lure of promised better conditions for the poor to encourage popular uprisings, the USA used tanks, bombers, troops, terrorsists(Contras), proxy dictatorships.

The US hasn't done much to earn the hate of most middle easterners. We propped up the shah of Iran and the house of Saud, but why the fuck are the Syrians, Egyptians, Libians (Ok, the last two are N. African), Jordanians, etc. angry with us for.

Well the USA with the help of Britain toppled two democracies Iraq and Irans and replaced them with dictatorships that were more friendly with the Oil Coroporations.

With the others are muslim countries their religion ties them together against what they see as a religious war that the Christian West has begun against their fellow muslims(another crusade?)in Palestine. A war led by the USA through it's proxy Israel. The Israel/Palestine issue is all about religion and disrimination and oppression of muslims. Muslims don't understand how the USA with all its rights and freedoms can support Israels oppression, it's very hypocritical.

It's not about begging the fanatics to not attack us which they'll do anyways. The point is not to piss off the rest of the Muslim population into seeing the fanatics as being right and joining their cause.
In a way that would make things easier because you could indisriminately carpet bomb them and nobody could claim you're killing innocent people.

You assume Muslims are a hivemind of terrorists, which is Mistake Number One. There are over 1.3 billion throughout the world and if even half were fanatical suicide bombers like you want to believe they are, they would significantly outnumber the overextended and spread out US Military.
Not necessarily. When you talk about all those people, it's only a number. If America was going for victory no matter what the cost was then they would hardly need to send any ground troops in, and when they did they wouldn't be trying to establish a stronghold to rule the area. They'd just be in and out in a flash. For the bulk of the conflict, the superior technology could take over. Millions of poorly armed and trained people would hardly be a match against large numbers of strategic bombers.

Mistake Number Two. You underestimate or dismiss religious convictions readily. Indiscriminately murdering Muslims because of their religion regardless or not they're in the same region as the terrorists, much less sympathize with them is going to tell those nice, respectable and quiet Muslim majority that "Hey, maybe this Bin Ladin was onto something when he said America wants to eradicate Islam and Muslims." And when it comes to defending their religion, these people do not back the fuck down at all.
Then you kill them if they resist us. If they don't back down then kill some more. That way they're either subjugated or dead.

Well the USA with the help of Britain toppled two democracies Iraq and Irans and replaced them with dictatorships that were more friendly with the Oil Coroporations.

With the others are muslim countries their religion ties them together against what they see as a religious war that the Christian West has begun against their fellow muslims(another crusade?)in Palestine. A war led by the USA through it's proxy Israel. The Israel/Palestine issue is all about religion and disrimination and oppression of muslims. Muslims don't understand how the USA with all its rights and freedoms can support Israels oppression, it's very hypocritical.
If they're not smart enough to understand that our support and cooperation with Israel isn't a war on Palestinians, and that if we did declare a holy war on Islam the number of muslims alive would be measured in thousands, not billions, there's no talking to them. They need to get a grip on reality.

Am I the only person that think that Zacharias Moussaoui should not be given the Death penalty because alive he is a good source of information and knows how 'The Base' works, however If he is Executed those who follow Extremist Islam will consider him a Martyr and that is something that nobody wants.

In a way that would make things easier because you could indisriminately carpet bomb them and nobody could claim you're killing innocent people.


Not necessarily. When you talk about all those people, it's only a number. If America was going for victory no matter what the cost was then they would hardly need to send any ground troops in, and when they did they wouldn't be trying to establish a stronghold to rule the area. They'd just be in and out in a flash. For the bulk of the conflict, the superior technology could take over. Millions of poorly armed and trained people would hardly be a match against large numbers of strategic bombers.


Then you kill them if they resist us. If they don't back down then kill some more. That way they're either subjugated or dead.

In and out in a flash? oh you mean like Iraq? or VietNam?

"Millions of poorly armed and trained people would hardly be a match against large numbers of strategic bombers" just like VietNam, I think you lost that war.

The only way a war can be waged against a popular movement of the people is to exterminate that people, and that isn't going to happen. Convential warfare cannot defeat unconvenitional warfare without genocide. For ever innocent killed you create 10 more enemies you didn't have before.

In and out in a flash? oh you mean like Iraq? or VietNam?
Iraq and Vietnam are different situations. If America was to go into a country with the sole intent of destroying, they could easily be in and out in a flash.

In and out in a flash? oh you mean like Iraq? or VietNam?

"Millions of poorly armed and trained people would hardly be a match against large numbers of strategic bombers" just like VietNam, I think you lost that war.

The only way a war can be waged against a popular movement of the people is to exterminate that people, and that isn't going to happen. Convential warfare cannot defeat unconvenitional warfare without genocide. For ever innocent killed you create 10 more enemies you didn't have before.
We didn't try to just wipe people out in Iraq or Vietnam. If you don't care about civilian casualties you can just bomb the hell out of the nation then walk through shooting anything that moves. Then finish it off by poisoning the water supply to get any of the stragglers who were hiding.

Occupation takes a long time. Exterminiation is quick and easy.

If they're not smart enough to understand that our support and cooperation with Israel isn't a war on Palestinians, and that if we did declare a holy war on Islam the number of muslims alive would be measured in thousands, not billions, there's no talking to them. They need to get a grip on reality.

You need to take an honest look at the situation and not what Fox News says is the truth. Israel is an aperthied state just as South Africa was, the oppression of the Palestinians is a reality. Israel is has been guilty of breaking the Geneva Convention, theft of land through warfare; ethnic cleansing, terrorism, murder, legal discrimination, abuse of human rights of Palestinians.

You can either choose to blindly deny it or look past the official government line and look for the truth. The reality is their are always two sides to every story.

Moussaoui is officially a badass. Fighting for his people instead of college tuition like our own mercenary -oops "voluntary"- armed forces.

That navy chick deserved what she got. If you can’t take the thought of everyone around you dieing, then don’t get involved in a fucking war.

No Matt Hamill is a badass.

If you look up to Moussaoui why don't you join his organization?

I'm sure after a hardy ATMGB they'll let you be there towel girl.

History says differently.

Communists used the lure of promised better conditions for the poor


How'd that work out for them?

You need to take an honest look at the situation and not what Fox News says is the truth. Israel is an aperthied state just as South Africa was, the oppression of the Palestinians is a reality. Israel is has been guilty of breaking the Geneva Convention, theft of land through warfare; ethnic cleansing, terrorism, murder, legal discrimination, abuse of human rights of Palestinians.

You can either choose to blindly deny it or look past the official government line and look for the truth. The reality is their are always two sides to every story.
I don't watch fox news.

Israel isn't an apartheid state. Muslim Arabs who are Israeli citizens have equal rights and representatives in the Knesset.

Israel's struggle with the Palestininas has been bloody on both sides. The USA has consistently worked to hammer out a peace treaty between them.

We didn't try to just wipe people out in Iraq or Vietnam. If you don't care about civilian casualties you can just bomb the hell out of the nation then walk through shooting anything that moves. Then finish it off by poisoning the water supply to get any of the stragglers who were hiding.

Occupation takes a long time. Exterminiation is quick and easy.

2 million dead in north vietnam through bombing certianly looks like the US bombed the hell out of them, another 2 mill in the south.

poison-agent orange is still effectively killing many years later 100,000+, and large areas are not fit for habitation

2 million dead in north vietnam through bombing certianly looks like the US bombed the hell out of them, another 2 mill in the south.

poison-agent orange is still effectively killing many years later 100,000+, and large areas are not fit for habitation
Still, it wasn't an effort to depopulate the nation. It was an effort to win the nation for the government of the South. You can't compare it to the simple slaughter that Somewhere was talking about.

I don't watch fox news.

Israel isn't an apartheid state. Muslim Arabs who are Israeli citizens have equal rights and representatives in the Knesset.

Israel's struggle with the Palestinians has been bloody on both sides. The USA has consistently worked to hammer out a peace treaty between them.

Muslims in Israel can not own 92% of the land, they are restricted to arab only areas(ghettos) but they make up 1/4 of the population

Muslims can not form a arab or muslim political party, unlike the jews who face no restrictions. Muslims as equal citizens in Israel is a myth.

the majority of Arabs are not permitted the right to join the armed forces(Druze and Bedu are exempt).

there are many more oppressive laws, you'll need to look them up yourself since you won't believe me. How would you react if there were laws in the USA like the Israeli ones that targeted your ethnic or religious group? Ironiclly that's what the Nazis were all about.

The US if it wanted could bring this to a conclusion in a year if it really wanted to, withdraw aid until Israel negotiates in good faith, they have no to as long as the US props up their economy.

"Bloody on both sides"? yes, but if you look at the numbers, the palestian dead far outnumber the Israeli dead, innocent Israelli dead get better media coverage than innocent muslims.

Muslims in Israel can not own 92% of the land, they are restricted to arab only areas(ghettos) but they make up 1/4 of the population

Muslims can not form a arab or muslim political party, unlike the jews who face no restrictions. Muslims as equal citizens in Israel is a myth.

the majority of Arabs are not permitted the right to join the armed forces(Druze and Bedu are exempt).

there are many more oppressive laws, you'll need to look them up yourself since you won't believe me. How would you react if there were laws in the USA like the Israeli ones that targeted your ethnic or religious group? Ironiclly that's what the Nazis were all about.

The US if it wanted could bring this to a conclusion in a year if it really wanted to, withdraw aid until Israel negotiates in good faith, they have no to as long as the US props up their economy.
Got a link for the Israel stuff? I hadn't heard any of that before.

Muslims in Israel can not own 92% of the land, they are restricted to arab only areas(ghettos) but they make up 1/4 of the population

Muslims can not form a arab or muslim political party, unlike the jews who face no restrictions. Muslims as equal citizens in Israel is a myth.

the majority of Arabs are not permitted the right to join the armed forces(Druze and Bedu are exempt).

there are many more oppressive laws, you'll need to look them up yourself since you won't believe me. How would you react if there were laws in the USA like the Israeli ones that targeted your ethnic or religious group? Ironiclly that's what the Nazis were all about.

The US if it wanted could bring this to a conclusion in a year if it really wanted to, withdraw aid until Israel negotiates in good faith, they have no to as long as the US props up their economy.

"Bloody on both sides"? yes, but if you look at the numbers, the palestian dead far outnumber the Israeli dead, innocent Israelli dead get better media coverage than innocent muslims.

How are the Jews treated in Muslim nations?

Am I the only person that think that Zacharias Moussaoui should not be given the Death penalty because alive he is a good source of information and knows how 'The Base' works, however If he is Executed those who follow Extremist Islam will consider him a Martyr and that is something that nobody wants.

I agree but for different reasons-I don't support a death penalty no matter how badly the person deserves it, and for some death is too quick.

So I ask ..what the fuck ??? Its like being invaded by the three stooges and losing .
Just for that, you win the internets.

Frankls, as for our resident captured terrorist, I'm just going to take this with a grain of salt. I don't know if he's exaggerating or not, and frankly, whether he is or not, is that really the issue?

How are the Jews treated in Muslim nations?

until the creation of Israel and the persecution of the muslims they were treated well.

Arab/muslim nations tradionally gave refuge to jews fleeing from persecution in christian europe for centuriies.

until the creation of Israel and the persecution of the muslims they were treated well.

Arab/muslim nations tradionally gave refuge to jews fleeing from persecution in christian europe for centuriies.

I meant in 2006.

Got a link for the Israel stuff? I hadn't heard any of that before.

Sorry, I only have a link to Sharon's military record in regards to bombing/ethnic cleansing in the '50s

just "cut and paste" parts of my post into google and see what pops up.

there are number of differences in the quality of life of Jewish vs muslim Israelis, education, civil infrastucture etc, civil rights, things we would never tolerate in a true democracy which Israel claims it is.

I meant in 2006.

Most jews I assume have left their former arab homes as a result of the backlash they recieved because of Israels actions.

I haven't done a search on the topic to see where they still reside, I know that Turkey still protects their jewish population from persecution. Yeman and Morroco may as well too but I'm not sure.

Something I'll have to research in the future.

No doubt the jews in arab lands felt the hostilty directed towards them just as american muslims felt it post 9/11.

Sorry, I only have a link to Sharon's military record in regards to bombing/ethnic cleansing in the '50s

just "cut and paste" parts of my post into google and see what pops up.




:rolleyes:

:rolleyes:

ROcka .....I've spent years looking up the facts in order to gain a better knowledge of the situation, I don't feel a need to make it easier for anyone else. The facts are best discovered by the person wanting them.

Iraq and Vietnam are different situations. If America was to go into a country with the sole intent of destroying, they could easily be in and out in a flash.

And then when all is said and done, what does the United States left? The entire world pissed at it and in the process of embargoing it into the fucking Stone Age. And maybe doing a lot of pre-emptive strikes of their own to save the globe.

In a way that would make things easier because you could indisriminately carpet bomb them and nobody could claim you're killing innocent people.

So your idea of handling civilian casualties is to incite the civilian populace into joining the terrorists and then kill them all. Wow, brilliant tactics there Ghengis Khan.

:rolleyes:

Not necessarily. When you talk about all those people, it's only a number. If America was going for victory no matter what the cost was then they would hardly need to send any ground troops in, and when they did they wouldn't be trying to establish a stronghold to rule the area. They'd just be in and out in a flash. For the bulk of the conflict, the superior technology could take over. Millions of poorly armed and trained people would hardly be a match against large numbers of strategic bombers.

Again, someone mentioned Vietnam where superior technology didn't mean shit because nobody knew jack about the natives, the terrain and the environment.

Then you kill them if they resist us. If they don't back down then kill some more. That way they're either subjugated or dead.

If you're from the United States then you ought to renounce your citizenship and move to North Korea. Kim Jong-Il could use that kind of brilliant mind.

Muslims in Israel can not own 92% of the land, they are restricted to arab only areas(ghettos) but they make up 1/4 of the population

Muslims can not form a arab or muslim political party, unlike the jews who face no restrictions. Muslims as equal citizens in Israel is a myth.

the majority of Arabs are not permitted the right to join the armed forces(Druze and Bedu are exempt).

there are many more oppressive laws, you'll need to look them up yourself since you won't believe me. How would you react if there were laws in the USA like the Israeli ones that targeted your ethnic or religious group? Ironiclly that's what the Nazis were all about.

The US if it wanted could bring this to a conclusion in a year if it really wanted to, withdraw aid until Israel negotiates in good faith, they have no to as long as the US props up their economy.

"Bloody on both sides"? yes, but if you look at the numbers, the palestian dead far outnumber the Israeli dead, innocent Israelli dead get better media coverage than innocent muslims.

This may fool some people who don't know anything about Israel, but you're not really fooling your resident Zionists. Perhaps I should correct you for the benefit of everyone else.

There is not a single piece of legislation in Israel that prevents Muslims from owning land anywhere. Nor are they forced to live in Muslim neighborhoods. The only part of Israel that is officially partitioned into three religious sectors is Jerusalem. Muslims are not forced into "ghettos" of any form, no more than black people are forced into "ghettos" in the USA. The fact is, their social conditions are what cause Arab neighborhoods, Jewish neighborhoods, and the fact that they don't own a majority of the land. No Israeli laws prevent them from owning as much land as they want, nor do they prevent them from living anywhere they want. The only thing that prevents them from doing so, like in every country in the world, is their economic status.

Muslim and Arab parties exist within the Israeli government and win seats on the Knesset (Israeli parliament) every election. Some Arab political parties that have existed from the 90s up until today are the United Arab List, (won 3 seats on the 2006 Knesset), The Arab Movement for Renewal (joined the UAL to win 3 seats on Knesset this year), and the National Democratic Assembly (won 3 seats in the 2003 Knesset). There are dozens more Arab and Muslim parties in Israel, that have won Knesset seats and participated in government in the past. Your claim that they can't form political parties is an outright lie.

All Arabs and Muslims who are Israeli citizens may join the military if they volunteer. The simply aren't required to join the military, as Jews are. They are exempt from manditory conscription, but there are no laws that prevent Arab citizens from joining the IDF. In fact, Muslim Arabs have even been known to rise to high positions within the IDF, such as Colonel Amos Yarkoni.

As much as you would like to try to paint Israel as some apartheid state, there really is no evidence for such a thing. There is no oppressive legislation in Israel. Social inequality does exist, in exactly the same fashion it exists in every nation on Earth. Nor is the social inequality in Israel always radically biased toward Israelis. Israeli settlers live in "ghettos" as well, usually small areas in large Arab populations where they are the poor minority and Arabs make up the more wealthy majority. Israel is no more "oppressive" or "inequal" towards its minorities than the US is toward theirs.

And then when all is said and done, what does the United States left? The entire world pissed at it and in the process of embargoing it into the fucking Stone Age. And maybe doing a lot of pre-emptive strikes of their own to save the globe.
Which is why ideally I would like the US and Europe to ally themselves to fight this common enemy - Islam. I doubt muslim nations would be capable of launching a major preemptive strike on the west. And the economic power of both the US and Europe means that we could all certainly survive their embargos. And it wouldn't be in the interests of sympathetic non-muslim nations to embargo such a powerful entity, it could ruin a lot of them economically. Especially the poorer ones as a lot of them rely on either the US or Europe for food.

ROcka .....I've spent years looking up the facts in order to gain a better knowledge of the situation, I don't feel a need to make it easier for anyone else. The facts are best discovered by the person wanting them.

If you want your claims to be taken seriously than you should provide evidence backing these claims.

History says differently.

Communists used the lure of promised better conditions for the poor to encourage popular uprisings, the USA used tanks, bombers, troops, terrorsists(Contras), proxy dictatorships.

sure in the bizzaro world where they didnt go into hungary annd other countries with tanks to suppress democracy...or SREW THAT...fuck democracy ..try ANY FUCKING FORM OF DISSENT !


And I know CHINA...didnt do anything wrong at the square...wtf ??? are you blind or just brainwashed ?

I hope the amusing mr moussaoui drags his trial out for ten years of appeals.

Which is why ideally I would like the US and Europe to ally themselves to fight this common enemy - Islam. I doubt muslim nations would be capable of launching a major preemptive strike on the west. And the economic power of both the US and Europe means that we could all certainly survive their embargos. And it wouldn't be in the interests of sympathetic non-muslim nations to embargo such a powerful entity, it could ruin a lot of them economically. Especially the poorer ones as a lot of them rely on either the US or Europe for food.

You're under the delusion of course that Europe would condone mass murder and do nothing about it. Even if socialist Europe lacked a conscience, Saudi Arabia and OPEC has the massive oil leverage it can hold over the United States and the rest of the world. "Boycott America or we Embargo you" is a strong message for a lot of oil-dependent countries, especially China.

The Dutch economy took a hit when Muslims boycotted dairy products in the wake of the cartoon controversy. And let's not forget there's plenty of Muslims living in Europe too.

Oh yes, there's China. The US has taken massive loans from China and the Chinese keep the dollar stable artificially. Not to mention thanks to the push of corporations like Wal Mart, most if not all of the nation's manufacturing and distribution businesses have been relocated there. The Chinese haven't really developed any alternate fuel source technology to this point and if OPEC tells them to sink the United States, they probably will do it for the oil.

China pulls the plug out from the dollar, and there will be hell to pay. No thanks to companies like Wal Mart as well as the nation's government within the last 2 decades.

You're under the delusion of course that Europe would condone mass murder and do nothing about it. Even if socialist Europe lacked a conscience, Saudi Arabia and OPEC has the massive oil leverage it can hold over the United States and the rest of the world. "Boycott America or we Embargo you" is a strong message for a lot of oil-dependent countries, especially China.

The Dutch economy took a hit when Muslims boycotted dairy products in the wake of the cartoon controversy. And let's not forget there's plenty of Muslims living in Europe too.

Oh yes, there's China. The US has taken massive loans from China and the Chinese keep the dollar stable artificially. Not to mention thanks to the push of corporations like Wal Mart, most if not all of the nation's manufacturing and distribution businesses have been relocated there. The Chinese haven't really developed any alternate fuel source technology to this point and if OPEC tells them to sink the United States, they probably will do it for the oil.

China pulls the plug out from the dollar, and there will be hell to pay. No thanks to companies like Wal Mart as well as the nation's government within the last 2 decades.
I was only talking in 'ifs' here, I realise that something like this won't be achievable without some drastic changes in the structure of western society, and these would take time. The muslims in Europe probably wouldn't be too much a problem as they're unarmed. And I realise that the problems with oil under those circumstances could only be solved by either taking Saudi Arabia or if we had already developed a new alternative fuel (Which is a long way off). Regarding your point about the Danish boycott, we would have to work towards creating an economic system which won't be affected by events in either muslim countries or China. The current economic system benefits nobody but the rich.

In order to contain China there would have to be radical changes there, with defensive alliances between the US, Europe and Russia. Also it could be desireable to try and get India and possibly friendlier Latin American countries into the fray. Of course, I realise that the current prospects for this are pretty much zero due to the global situation. Which is why it could perhaps be a good thing if there was a bit more muslim-inspired global chaos all across the globe in order to shake all of the non-muslim peoples of the world out of complacency, so they can all work tirelessly towards cleaning our world of this pathetic religion.

Is it normal for me to want to stab him repeatadly with a screwdriver?

I hope the amusing mr moussaoui drags his trial out for ten years of appeals.
That isn't likely to happen, unless of course he doesn't get the death penalty - which is what he has stated that he wants.

I wouldn't classify him as a "typical terrorist", nor would I sentence him to death.

For a more typical terrorist, I think todays nomination goes to Abu Musab al-Suri.

That isn't likely to happen, unless of course he doesn't get the death penalty - which is what he has stated that he wants.

I wouldn't classify him as a "typical terrorist", nor would I sentence him to death.

For a more typical terrorist, I think todays nomination goes to Abu Musab al-Suri.



You can spend a long time appealing the death penalty, especially when the trial is as big a clown-act as this one.

If they're not smart enough to understand that our support and cooperation with Israel isn't a war on Palestinians, and that if we did declare a holy war on Islam the number of muslims alive would be measured in thousands, not billions, there's no talking to them. They need to get a grip on reality.

Like Mussolinis' support and cooperation with the Thrid Reich wasn't war with the allies during WWII?! What are you talking about?! Of course supporting one's enemy makes you an enemy aswell.

No.

You are by definition a sociopath.

He fights for his people, which are perpetually opressed by the United States. If we would leave them alone, cut back on our military and stop suporting Isreal they would have no problem with us.

He hasn't fought for shit, and who are his people? Muslim American converts? As for this person, even if we minded our own buisiness he wants Islam supremacy by force.

No. She asked to be paid to kill "sand niggers." Heaven forbid the ignorant savages fight back.

She swore to fight all enemies foreign and domestic, for little compensation. Not to kill Arabs. And all soldiers/warriors are saddened when they loose comrades, even when they should expect to at some point.

He is not my enemy.
To paraphrase a great man and athlete, I ain't got no quarrel with those AL Queda."

Silly nihilist.