NationStates Jolt Archive


Talking to Dolphins

Cyrian space
13-04-2006, 00:39
What if over the next few years a group of scientists developed a way to easily communicate with Dolphins, Whales, Chimpanzee's, or other species thought to be intelligent, and discovered that they were actually capable of complex thought, much like us? How do you think that this would change the world? Could we live as equals? Would Pro-human anti-animal groups form? Could you see yourself working alongside a dolphin, ape, or whale in your daily life? What allowances would be made? What would have to change?
Call to power
13-04-2006, 00:53
with consent you could have sex with elephants, chimpanzees, Harry Hill

but then again who would want too?

*done so I can cross off poke fun of Harry Hill on my wish list
New Stalinberg
13-04-2006, 00:54
If dolphins were humanoid, they would be the dominant ones because their brains are much bigger than ours.

Did you know that dolphins and humans are the only species that have sex just for pleasure?
Call to power
13-04-2006, 00:55
Did you know that dolphins and humans are the only species that have sex just for pleasure?

have you ever been to the zoo and seen the Monkeys?
Plumtopia
13-04-2006, 01:13
a few things:

1) being able to verbally (sign-language included) "give consent" does NOT mean someone/something is legally capable of doing so. ten-year-olds can say "let's get it on," but they don't fully understand the consequences and rammifications of what they're proposing, hence the "age of consent." if monkeys/gorrillas/dolphins could say they want something, it doesn't automatically follow that what they say will hold up in the legal system (gorrillas testifying in court that they're being abused, for instance).

2) bigger brain size doesn't mean all that much. homo Sapiens Neaderthal (i.e., Neaderthals) had larger brains than homo Sapiens Sapiens (i.e., modern humans), but guess who's still around and who isn't?

p.s. many anthropologists argue that the Neaderthals were physiologically incapable of forming complex speech and this is what ultimately led to their downfall, but my point still holds :p
Pantygraigwen
13-04-2006, 01:17
What if over the next few years a group of scientists developed a way to easily communicate with Dolphins, Whales, Chimpanzee's, or other species thought to be intelligent, and discovered that they were actually capable of complex thought, much like us? How do you think that this would change the world? Could we live as equals? Would Pro-human anti-animal groups form? Could you see yourself working alongside a dolphin, ape, or whale in your daily life? What allowances would be made? What would have to change?

They already have. American foreign policy is run by chimps.

*that joke brought to you by knee-jerk comedy reactions inc. your one stop shop for obvious jokes*
Rotovia-
13-04-2006, 01:17
It'd feel all the more guilty as I chow down on my dolphin, whale and chimpanzee sandwich.
Pantygraigwen
13-04-2006, 01:19
a few things:

1) being able to verbally (sign-language included) "give consent" does NOT mean someone/something is legally capable of doing so. ten-year-olds can say "let's get it on," but they don't fully understand the consequences and rammifications of what they're proposing, hence the "age of consent." if monkeys/gorrillas/dolphins could say they want something, it doesn't automatically follow that what they say will hold up in the legal system (gorrillas testifying in court that they're being abused, for instance).

2) bigger brain size doesn't mean all that much. homo Sapiens Neaderthal (i.e., Neaderthals) had larger brains than homo Sapiens Sapiens (i.e., modern humans), but guess who's still around and who isn't?

p.s. many anthropologists argue that the Neaderthals were physiologically incapable of forming complex speech and this is what ultimately led to their downfall, but my point still holds :p

Surely the point remains that being able to "communicate" with dolphins, for example, is irrelevant unless they have the language base to form abstract thought, for without abstract thought there can be no true consciousness.

Or is that a pet theory of mine?

(didya see what i did there? didya? talking about animals, PET theory, god, i crack myself up sometimes)
Cyrian space
13-04-2006, 01:23
When I said that they had "complex thought" I also meant to include abstract thought. Basically, that they are more or less as capable of science, art, philosophy, and literature as a human.
Pantygraigwen
13-04-2006, 01:30
When I said that they had "complex thought" I also meant to include abstract thought. Basically, that they are more or less as capable of science, art, philosophy, and literature as a human.

Not going to happen. Only one creature on this planet managed to climb that far up the evolutionary ladder and we pulled it up behind us, so unless we hang down a rope-ladder, not going to happen.

(the above tortous analogy was brought to you by "Bad Metaphors Inc", serving the local community since 1971)
Asbena
13-04-2006, 01:34
If dolphins were humanoid, they would be the dominant ones because their brains are much bigger than ours.

Did you know that dolphins and humans are the only species that have sex just for pleasure?

I doubt dolphins do it for just pleasure. They mate and stay mates. Humans are the only ones biologically that have the most complex and ingenius need for sex. Hell that's how the whole reason women have orgasms and get fun from it to, to gauge how well her man is!

Though before I turn this into a how superior people are to dolphins....some stupid fish that is a sea-clown will not be smarter then me. :D They have no imagination or use of tools.
Dinaverg
13-04-2006, 01:38
They have no imagination

Prove, and:

or use of tools.

Being able to hold tools would be helpful.
Kiwi-kiwi
13-04-2006, 01:42
What if over the next few years a group of scientists developed a way to easily communicate with Dolphins, Whales, Chimpanzee's, or other species thought to be intelligent, and discovered that they were actually capable of complex thought, much like us? How do you think that this would change the world? Could we live as equals? Would Pro-human anti-animal groups form? Could you see yourself working alongside a dolphin, ape, or whale in your daily life? What allowances would be made? What would have to change?

Haven't some great apes been taught sign language and other forms of communication already?
Quagmus
13-04-2006, 01:58
What if over the next few years a group of scientists developed a way to easily communicate with Dolphins, Whales, Chimpanzee's, or other species thought to be intelligent, and discovered that they were actually capable of complex thought, much like us? How do you think that this would change the world? Could we live as equals? Would Pro-human anti-animal groups form? Could you see yourself working alongside a dolphin, ape, or whale in your daily life? What allowances would be made? What would have to change?
The lower beasts must be kept in their place. Otherwise they will get all sort of crazy ideas, like that they have Rights and should not be treated as Property. This equality notion has gone too far already; I believe even Pigmyes are considered to have human Rights, when obviously they can only have Pigmy Rights. There will be No more Pigmye Sandwiches, or Sausages, or Bacon...
Free Mercantile States
13-04-2006, 02:00
The knowledgeable among us have long known that in fact, humans are only the world's third most intelligent species, after mice and dolphins.
The Mindset
13-04-2006, 02:04
I doubt dolphins do it for just pleasure. They mate and stay mates. Humans are the only ones biologically that have the most complex and ingenius need for sex. Hell that's how the whole reason women have orgasms and get fun from it to, to gauge how well her man is!

Though before I turn this into a how superior people are to dolphins....some stupid fish that is a sea-clown will not be smarter then me. :D They have no imagination or use of tools.
Apes do use tools - they use stones to crack open nuts, and sticks to fish for ants. Also - ever watched a dog as it dreamt? If something as lowly as a dog has an imagination it follows that humanity's closest surviving relative does too.
Curious Inquiry
13-04-2006, 02:06
I once read an entertaining SF piece about humans learning to comunicate with cetaceans. Orca were great mathematicians. Dolphins and whales sued humanity for noise-polluting the ocean, and won, so they ran things. Wish I could remember the title or author :(
Curious Inquiry
13-04-2006, 02:07
The knowledgeable among us have long known that in fact, humans are only the world's third most intelligent species, after mice and dolphins.
"So long, and thanks for all the fish" ;)
Asbena
13-04-2006, 02:11
Apes do use tools - they use stones to crack open nuts, and sticks to fish for ants. Also - ever watched a dog as it dreamt? If something as lowly as a dog has an imagination it follows that humanity's closest surviving relative does too.

All pets dream...its the brain at rest.
Though abstract things are beyond their understanding...such as math. :P

Besides....people do it for FUN! (and not math :P)
Celtlund
13-04-2006, 02:13
What if over the next few years a group of scientists developed a way to easily communicate with Dolphins, Whales, Chimpanzee's, or other species thought to be intelligent, and discovered that they were actually capable of complex thought, much like us? How do you think that this would change the world? Could we live as equals? Would Pro-human anti-animal groups form? Could you see yourself working alongside a dolphin, ape, or whale in your daily life? What allowances would be made? What would have to change?

Does "Planet of the Apes" mean anything?
J9F6s
13-04-2006, 02:59
Does "Planet of the Apes" mean anything?

In the most literal sense, a planet. Made out of apes.
As far as how the movie series applies to this discussion, probably not. Humans may be dumb(or not) but I really can't see monkeys usurping the planet from us. We wouldn't let that happen, and I doubt a monkey would be any good with an assault rifle.
Non Aligned States
13-04-2006, 03:53
Surely the point remains that being able to "communicate" with dolphins, for example, is irrelevant unless they have the language base to form abstract thought, for without abstract thought there can be no true consciousness.

Actually, since humans never bothered to try figuring out dolphin speak, I figure they're not trying to figure out human speak either. Animals do communicate with one another you know, just not with English ;)

Using tools is not easy since Dolphins kinda lack opposable thumbs although for chimps which do, I challenge you to see if you can beat a chimp at termite fishing with just a stick. Chimps beat humans in the correct selection of stick everytime apparently.
Megaloria
13-04-2006, 03:59
We don't have to worry at all about this. There's far, far too much to be concerned about regarding our own species.
Potarius
13-04-2006, 04:12
If dolphins were humanoid, they would be the dominant ones because their brains are much bigger than ours.

Brain size hardly matters. It's the makeup and complexity of the cerebral cortex that matter. Just because something's bigger doesn't mean it's better.

For instance, a cat's brain is much smaller than a dog's, but cats are much more intelligent. They're more independent, they don't slobber all over themselves, they bathe, and they control their "litter".
Wallonochia
13-04-2006, 04:18
They have no imagination or use of tools.


Actually, dolphins do use tools.

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/2005-06-06-dolphin-usat_x.htm?csp=N009