NationStates Jolt Archive

Newt joins the chorus:

VERMILLION - Newt Gingrich, the former Republican Speaker of the House, told students and faculty at the University of South Dakota Monday that the United States should pull out of Iraq and leave a small force there, just as it did post-war in Korea and Germany.

"It was an enormous mistake for us to try to occupy that country after June of 2003," Gingrich said during a question-and-answer session at the school. "We have to pull back, and we have to recognize it."

http://www.argusleader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060411/NEWS/604110311/1001

http://images.despair.com/products/demotivators/mistakes.jpg



http://images.despair.com/products/demotivators/regret.jpg

http://images.despair.com/products/demotivators/mistakes.jpg



http://images.despair.com/products/demotivators/regret.jpg
Funny.

Unrelated question for you. Does your avatar actually have a meaning or do you just think its a cool pic?

Unrelated question for you. Does your avatar actually have a meaning or do you just think its a cool pic?
Pwn.


It's a gamers' bedroom poster.


http://www.popartuk.com/g/l/lgfp0681.jpg

Pwn.


It's a gamers' bedroom poster.


Sweet. :D

Newt joins the chorus:



http://www.argusleader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060411/NEWS/604110311/1001
When I go to hell, I get to build snowmen! Cool...

Pwn.


It's a gamers' bedroom poster.


http://www.popartuk.com/g/l/lgfp0681.jpg
Cool.

I'm just wondering, is it me or does anyone else realise that our existence seems to be some mistakes? I know we learn from mistakes but I doubt that applies to the so-called *inteligent* majoity. The only ones that seem reliable are cracpots, extremists and people that speak their own made-up language. And those homeless folk that walk around in sandwich boards telling us the time is nigh.

I'm just wondering, is it me or does anyone else realise that our existence seems to be some mistakes? I know we learn from mistakes but I doubt that applies to the so-called *inteligent* majoity. The only ones that seem reliable are cracpots, extremists and people that speak their own made-up language. And those homeless folk that walk around in sandwich boards telling us the time is nigh.
The sandwich board men are always right. The time has been nigh for quite a while now.

I'm just wondering, is it me or does anyone else realise that our existence seems to be some mistakes? I know we learn from mistakes but I doubt that applies to the so-called *inteligent* majoity. The only ones that seem reliable are cracpots, extremists and people that speak their own made-up language. And those homeless folk that walk around in sandwich boards telling us the time is nigh.
Nah, that's just you. :p

The Newtster has been criticizing the Iraq war since before the first shot was fired. He's no fan of Bush's and never has been. I don't know whether Bush's policies offend his ethics, or if he thinks they undermine the long-term power of his party, or he's just smarter than the Bushies (actually I guess we can just assume that last one), but this is not surprising.

Well one of the reason Newt is critical is because he spend his entire time in Senate fighting the corruptiona and out of control spending of the Democrats.. and now a couple of years later we see that the Republicans are doing the same thing that the Democrats

Well one of the reason Newt is critical is because he spend his entire time in Senate fighting the corruptiona and out of control spending of the Democrats.. and now a couple of years later we see that the Republicans are doing the same thing that the Democrats
And it's to Newt's credit that unlike some Republicans, he is applying the same ethical standards to his own party. I do not agree with Gingrich's politics, but I do respect what I've seen of his intelligence and principles. Compared to what we've got now, I miss him -- and trust me, I never thought I'd live to hear myself say that. :eek:

Even neocons are saying the US should pull out.

Francis Fukuyama for example.

Even neocons are saying the US should pull out.

Francis Fukuyama for example.
I almost choked with laughter when I heard Fukuyama's statements that, not only was Iraq a mistake, but that the entire principle of spreading democracy, neocon style, is fatally flawed. Fukuyama was one of the architects of neoconservatism, and even he's saying, gosh, it looks like we were wrong, I guess...

:D

Well der... :headbang:

This is just what athens tried to do in Ancient Greece about 500 to 400 BCE... and guess wat kids it didnt work

How the hell can people think that they can push their values on others? Someone shoot them down from their high and extremely stupid horse please

I almost choked with laughter when I heard Fukuyama's statements that, not only was Iraq a mistake, but that the entire principle of spreading democracy, neocon style, is fatally flawed. Fukuyama was one of the architects of neoconservatism, and even he's saying, gosh, it looks like we were wrong, I guess...

:D
Believe me I would have shared your laughter if both Western and Eastern people's lives weren't at stake. It personally fills me with sadness that only recently people have begun to understand what was painfully obvious right from the start.


and yet there are still those who cling to neoconservatism.

Believe me I would have shared your laughter if both Western and Eastern people's lives weren't at stake. It personally fills me with sadness that only recently people have begun to understand what was painfully obvious right from the start.


and yet there are still those who cling to neoconservatism.
When I said "laughter," I meant the bitter rueful laughter of outrage pushed past its limits, of course.

(Oh and also the evil snicker that escapes me every time anything happens that causes the slightest discomfort to my enemies.)

Fukuyama was one of the architects of neoconservatism, and even he's saying, gosh, it looks like we were wrong, I guess...
Personally, I admire him for that sort of admission. You'd be pretty hard-pressed to find anyone admitting they were wrong these days, left or right.

That he did it is a sign of someone who genuinely cares more about the people affected by the ideology than the ideology (and his attachment to it) itself.

I'm going to wait for FOX or the other usual suspects to start calling Newtie a Commie Liberal Traitor.

I'm going to wait for FOX or the other usual suspects to start calling Newtie a Commie Liberal Traitor.

Nah. It'll be more like "oceania was always at war with eastasia."

Nah. It'll be more like "oceania was always at war with eastasia."

:cool:

The Newtster has been criticizing the Iraq war since before the first shot was fired. He's no fan of Bush's and never has been. I don't know whether Bush's policies offend his ethics, or if he thinks they undermine the long-term power of his party, or he's just smarter than the Bushies (actually I guess we can just assume that last one), but this is not surprising.Sorry, but that's incorrect. Take a look at this. (http://alternet.org/waroniraq/34878/)
These same would-be Bush critics have spent the last four years creating a paradigm where this type of criticism of the commander is not permitted because such criticism constitutes aid to Al Qaida and is therefore tantamount to treason. Compare the criticisms made by Gingrich of the president's illegal eavesdropping and his Iraq policies to this truly disgusting declaration made by him just a few months ago on Hannity & Colmes:

I think it's quite clear as you point out, Sean, that from this tape, that bin Laden and his lieutenants are monitoring the American news media, they're monitoring public opinion polling, and I suspect they take a great deal of comfort when they see people attacking United States policies.

I suspect you're thinking of Pat Buchanan, who was indeed opposed not only to this war, but the last Iraq war as well. As for Gingrich, fuck him. I don't care what his positions are now--you don't play the dissent=treason card and then get welcomed back without a major apology and some time in the shithouse.

Newt joins the chorus:



http://www.argusleader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060411/NEWS/604110311/1001

Unfourtunately, he's a civilian who doesn't realize the implications of this course of action. If we were to pull out of iraq we would lose a winning fight. We would give the jihadists the victory they so desperately need. And we'd just be in iraq in another 20yrs when all of the world would be saying that the US is the devil because they gave up on Iraq.

Personally, I admire him for that sort of admission. You'd be pretty hard-pressed to find anyone admitting they were wrong these days, left or right.

That he did it is a sign of someone who genuinely cares more about the people affected by the ideology than the ideology (and his attachment to it) itself.

Exactly so.

Unfourtunately, he's a civilian who doesn't realize the implications of this course of action.

Why should that be hel against him? Both the president and the Sec.Def. are civilians who don't seem to realise the implications of their military policies taken against the advice of those generals who spoke out against the flawed plans.

Sorry, but that's incorrect. Take a look at this. (http://alternet.org/waroniraq/34878/)


I suspect you're thinking of Pat Buchanan, who was indeed opposed not only to this war, but the last Iraq war as well. As for Gingrich, fuck him. I don't care what his positions are now--you don't play the dissent=treason card and then get welcomed back without a major apology and some time in the shithouse.
Far be it from me to try to save the reputation of Newt Gingrich. Even if I wanted to, I can't find the quotes -- I heard them on television years ago, at the start of the war. I distinctly remember Gingrich saying that to invade Iraq was bad policy. He also criticized the way Bush & Rumsfeld were planning to run the war -- all that "lean & mean" crap. Even if what he thought we should have done would have been equally wrong, I still think he was an early critic of Bush and the war.

As for that "comforting the enemy" crack, yes, that is just the sort of thing he would say. I make no claim that the man is on our side. I only say that he's not a two-faced, lying, hypocrite of an enemy. :)

And yes, you're right about Buchanan -- and I hate that. I resent bitterly that the Bush admin causes me to agree on any point -- no matter how minute -- with bastards like Buchanan and Gingrich.