NationStates Jolt Archive

Well im running vista now, and i have got it to be very stable, and am running lots of XP software on it aswell as the new updates to everything (WMP11, IE7, WLM and so on), so anyone got any questions about this new OS, im willing to answer lots because i know how much i wanted to know about it before i got into the beta testing program.

Does it run quickly on a normal computer with full graphics?

What is windows vista?

Does it run quickly on a normal computer with full graphics?
It runs on my Intel celeron D 2.66ghz, 1gb ddr 400mhz ram, and pny geforce 128mb (gddr2) 6600gt without to much hastle, on beta drivers. My processor is very slow for a vista system and is not on the recomended list, it is below minimum i think. But yes i can run full aero UI without too much lag, as i said beta drivers which are buggy themselves. If i was running a P4 northwood 2.8ghz (quite a step up from the celeron, but no HT or anything) then it would run with no lag.

Vista is microsofts next generation operating system, teh sequal to XP, it has been written on windows server 2003 coding and features alot of new tools, heightened security (which is very high, i mean very very high even for an administrator), and the new Aero UI (transparant toolbars, new start menu, lots of shinyness). The layout and tools in Vista are also different from XP quite a bit, and because it is all new including new windows media player and the IE7 beta it is like a whole new OS.

Built-in copy protection?

For what part, Vista itself? yes like all windows it has license key activation, then you have 14 days to activate (so far this is beta, end product out january next year may have 30 days like xp). It has licenses for music in media player, but that is not new. But the version i am on called "Ultimate edition" has built in dvd burning and cd burning, media center, and a host of other tools that let you burn to disc. So copy protection on data in the OS i have not seen much of. Parental controls YES there are loads!!

Parental controls YES there are loads!!Anything that kids can't get around easily? Cause kids are still usually more resourcefull with computers than they get credit for.. (Of course, it's a moot point. They can always just pop in a knoppix CD, and circumvent any OS on the computer itself)

Anything that kids can't get around easily? Cause kids are still usually more resourcefull with computers than they get credit for.. (Of course, it's a moot point. They can always just pop in a knoppix CD, and circumvent any OS on the computer itself)
If the child does not have Admin controls, and the parent account (the admin) has set up parental controls, there is no easy way around any of them that dont involve using say ubuntu live... BUT i do believe there is a feature that can disable use of certain hardware, or a feature to stop installing software, or that an admin password is required for ti to be installed, hence parent sees what is going on the computer. I myself am merely a boy, but i build computers and know windows xp inside out and know the little tricks to cheat past items, but on vista i am yet to find little tricks to cheat the controls. But the controls consist of:
Time allocation of computer use, so little timmy can't be on the computer past 10 at night so to speak. Game ratings can be set so users cant play games past the settings the admin sets for them so esrb ratings are important on games.
The feature looks pretty solid to me, i will play with it later and see if i can break it so to speak.
And about your knoppix point, a competant user can set teh bios to be password accessable only and stop booting from cd, that stops the little blighter from booting knopix, or any other linux install from disc. ;)

And about your knoppix point, a competant user can set teh bios to be password accessable only and stop booting from cd, that stops the little blighter from booting knopix, or any other linux install from disc. ;)Heh, well, as last resort, you can always open the case, and replace the hard disk :p And/or reset the bios.
But I suppose the biggest problem is that most users (and parents) aren't exactly competent in the first place..

I suppose a more interesting question would be how it holds up against spam and spyware. But there's no real telling untill it's out there and people actually write malware for this OS.
Maybe you could try a rootkit. Perhaps find a copy of that sony CD from some months back

Heh, well, as last resort, you can always open the case, and replace the hard disk :p And/or reset the bios.
But I suppose the biggest problem is that most users (and parents) aren't exactly competent in the first place..

I suppose a more interesting question would be how it holds up against spam and spyware. But there's no real telling untill it's out there and people actually write malware for this OS.
TBH right now it sucks majorly, im running it with XP dual partition and there is no firewall minus windows own that works on vista that i can find at the moment, and no antivirus, only windows defender and i did a clean scan of all spyware on my computer before i installed vista. Now doing a full system with Ad-aware after a good 3 hours browsing on vista yesterday getting codecs and teh such. im sure it would find nothing wrong with vista, but on my xp partition (scanning now in xp) i have so far got 31 new critical threats, that in a day to me is ludicrus normally i would get that in say 3 months at the least.
So spyware it has holes for it to get in, quite major ones, for i normally run tea timer but i cant with vista installed. Vista has made quite a few problems across the drives because of my drive being so large and the way i had to partition. :( but yeah spyware is bad at the moment, but not affecting my vista, it runs same as before just fine.

Is it going to suck as bad as all the other Windoze OSs?

Is it going to suck as bad as all the other Windoze OSs?
More so. It is practically the Windows game instead of the Windows OS. It is supposed to be good for games and all that but I don't see how an OS which is getting progressively more system intensive is good for games.

What file system are you running? The new proposed WinFS or the NTFS standard?

Whats your normalized proc loadout at idle ?

Whats your ram usage look like at idle?

Anything that kids can't get around easily? Cause kids are still usually more resourcefull with computers than they get credit for.. (Of course, it's a moot point. They can always just pop in a knoppix CD, and circumvent any OS on the computer itself)
Bah not if the person setting it up knows two cents about locking down a computer

Unless your kid is up to flashing the bios, removing the CD and floppy drive from the boot order and locking the bios should keep most kids out

What file system are you running? The new proposed WinFS or the NTFS standard?
Whats your normalized proc loadout at idle ?
Whats your ram usage look like at idle?
Im on Ntfs because i had to install on a partition i had files on already, it runs fine on that.

It varies average at bout 16% (celeron D 2.66ghz, is a few years old)

Ram usage is bout the same as on xp for me, i had 650MB free last time i looked (on xp boot at moment sorting out program troubles) i have 1GB. But if it was up to me more ram would be used... free ram is wasted ram in my eyes.

Im on Ntfs because i had to install on a partition i had files on already, it runs fine on that.

It varies average at bout 16% (celeron D 2.66ghz, is a few years old)

Ram usage is bout the same as on xp for me, i had 650MB free last time i looked (on xp boot at moment sorting out program troubles) i have 1GB. But if it was up to me more ram would be used... free ram is wasted ram in my eyes.
For the most part ... usualy you dont like to see more then 66 percent used at any one time (reduces the time to open applications if you leave SOME breathing room)

But you are right you want to find a balance that allows you to use VM less

More so. It is practically the Windows game instead of the Windows OS. It is supposed to be good for games and all that but I don't see how an OS which is getting progressively more system intensive is good for games.
It is going to kickass for games, Direct X 10 is a complete rewrite of code meaning it is designed for new graphics cards and supports hardware rendering of unmatched speeds by anything else out there. The OS is a bit meatier, but you can turn off Aero glass (which you dont get on teh home edition of vista anyways) and turn off all the visual elements like you could with XP, and just keep all the extra features, which there are lots of, and most are useful. And vista is written for new computers anyways, if you want to game on a PC you need a meaty one, hence you could run theoretically BF2 on full settings at 1600-1200 on a Pentium D 3ghz with 1gb of ram and a decent video card (e.g. nvidia sli 7600gt or above, or ati 1900gtx) on vista ultimate with aero glass on full and all teh we special shiny objects, THEORETICALLY (there are no performance drivers for vista yet from nvidia).
And windows does not suck it is a very good OS, Would be alot more stable if stupid assholes would stop fucking hacking it!! :mad:

For the most part ... usualy you dont like to see more then 66 percent used at any one time (reduces the time to open applications if you leave SOME breathing room)

But you are right you want to find a balance that allows you to use VM less
That is true, but so far apart from codec issues (which arent down to M$ so you can shut the fuck up you n00bs that complain that windows sucks, it is not windows that writes teh 3rd party software that messes with it) vista seems so stable and not too slow, boot time is slower than xp by quite a bit, but my xp is slimmed down adn refined for speed. Also shutting down takes longer due to shutting down programs across both partitions and getting an error report everytime i close messenger (which is fine because it is not for vista anyways, so i am happy it runs in the first place).

That is true, but so far apart from codec issues (which arent down to M$ so you can shut the fuck up you n00bs that complain that windows sucks, it is not windows that writes teh 3rd party software that messes with it) vista seems so stable and not too slow, boot time is slower than xp by quite a bit, but my xp is slimmed down adn refined for speed. Also shutting down takes longer due to shutting down programs across both partitions and getting an error report everytime i close messenger (which is fine because it is not for vista anyways, so i am happy it runs in the first place).
Intresting ... well may have to give it a shot when they get around to giving me a free copy here

Personaly I am all *nix myself but may be intresting to give it a shot if it costs me nothing :)

Intresting ... well may have to give it a shot when they get around to giving me a free copy here

Personaly I am all *nix myself but may be intresting to give it a shot if it costs me nothing :)
There is a public beta now (same version i am on) for download 2.7GB and no serial key included. but the download is on the public servers from microsoft so erm hey knock yourself out if you want to give it a go. I post link if you want it. It is not warez as it is from them and they have established it for public use (you get 14 days without activation) but still need serial key to install.

Well im running vista now, and i have got it to be very stable, and am running lots of XP software on it aswell as the new updates to everything (WMP11, IE7, WLM and so on), so anyone got any questions about this new OS, im willing to answer lots because i know how much i wanted to know about it before i got into the beta testing program.
What's Windows vista?

Windows Vista is the next generation Operating System written by Microsoft coorporation. It is the successor to Windows XP and has many new and exciting features.

Windows Vista is the next generation Operating System written by Microsoft coorporation. It is the successor to Windows XP and has many new and exciting features.
such as?

Bah not if the person setting it up knows two cents about locking down a computer

Unless your kid is up to flashing the bios, removing the CD and floppy drive from the boot order and locking the bios should keep most kids out

I think most people are up to that really, depending on what age of person you class as a kid. Also, most BIOS has an override password :).

Do you still have problems running anything if you're not using an administrator account?

I think most people are up to that really, depending on what age of person you class as a kid. Also, most BIOS has an override password :).
Depends on the board

Simple

5 dollar padlock

99 percent of all towers come with the ability to lock the case

If you are so worried that your kid is not only going to have the gumption to break a lock to get into the case so he can flash the bios so he can use a bootable distro to circumvent the OS security measures ... well maybe you may want to evaluate having a computer around the kid anyways

Because doing any more securing is un reasonable (In a home envyroment)

such as?
Parental controls, integrated DVD and CD burning, Support for more hardware e.g. can go past 4GB of ram now, Upgrades to pretty much all preexisting microsoft software e.g. IE, Media player (version 11 on vista), even paint has been updated!! (bout time too). Dx10 support!! And best of all 3d chess as a game :p

My bios has no override password, and it is pretty hard to flash mine, reset is easy though just a jumper on the board move to the left and pow back to defaults, which removes the password :( but hey you need to get to the jumper first *applies more razor wire to inside of case* :p

There is a public beta now (same version i am on) for download 2.7GB and no serial key included. but the download is on the public servers from microsoft so erm hey knock yourself out if you want to give it a go. I post link if you want it. It is not warez as it is from them and they have established it for public use (you get 14 days without activation) but still need serial key to install.
Thats ok ... my big machine is down awating a replacement northbridge fan :) my other machines are being used hardcore right now to make up the serving workload so maybe in a week or two

Do you still have problems running anything if you're not using an administrator account?
Yes you do, unless you have been given privaledges by an admin. In my mind all users on Vista should be admin because even under an Admin account you get security warnings when trying to open an Exe, or running the task manager (i am going to find away to turn all these off :mad: ) So if a normal user, some programs will need admin password for install, if that is what you mean. And yes some programs that overwrite OS files or modify them will need admin password, or infact admin logon to install.

Parental controls, integrated DVD and CD burning, Support for more hardware e.g. can go past 4GB of ram now, Upgrades to pretty much all preexisting microsoft software e.g. IE, Media player (version 11 on vista), even paint has been updated!! (bout time too). Dx10 support!! And best of all 3d chess as a game :p

My bios has no override password, and it is pretty hard to flash mine, reset is easy though just a jumper on the board move to the left and pow back to defaults, which removes the password :( but hey you need to get to the jumper first *applies more razor wire to inside of case* :p
Like I said most cases have tabs for a padlock ... simple solution

If you get to that point you may want to evaluate your childs need/right to use a computer in your home

Thats ok ... my big machine is down awating a replacement northbridge fan :) my other machines are being used hardcore right now to make up the serving workload so maybe in a week or two
Lol fair enough, i am hoping to in the next month or so get a Northwood P4 2.8ghz and that hopefully wont restrict my video card and teh extra cache should make vista run all the more smoothly. But for that i need a good 90£ and i am sitting at 10 with my anniversary next week... YAY!! [/sarcasm]

Like I said most cases have tabs for a padlock ... simple solution

If you get to that point you may want to evaluate your childs need/right to use a computer in your home
Lol it will never get to that point with me, i am a child :p and well i built my computer, i know it inside out there is no way in hell i am going to let anyone else tamper with it, and i have no use to padlock it shut. Mind you i dont have padlock option for my case, and i put thumb screws on for easy access :p

Lol fair enough, i am hoping to in the next month or so get a Northwood P4 2.8ghz and that hopefully wont restrict my video card and teh extra cache should make vista run all the more smoothly. But for that i need a good 90£ and i am sitting at 10 with my anniversary next week... YAY!! [/sarcasm]
My bigunn is a dual opteron 246 (2.0 ghz) machine ... I am up to 3 gigs of ram and running an x700 pro vid card

( http://geek.upwardthrust.us/pictures/picturethree.jpg )(Watch out big)

Any nice screenshots for us?

My bigunn is a dual opteron 246 (2.0 ghz) machine ... I am up to 3 gigs of ram and running an x700 pro vid card

( http://geek.upwardthrust.us/pictures/picture3.jpg )(Watch out big)
Link doesnt work for me. Erm damn that is quite a machine, i mean mine is wow it is crying just looking at those specs.

Lol it will never get to that point with me, i am a child :p and well i built my computer, i know it inside out there is no way in hell i am going to let anyone else tamper with it, and i have no use to padlock it shut. Mind you i dont have padlock option for my case, and i put thumb screws on for easy access :p
I understand that but I mean if you were a parent that was trying to lock down their computer so a child can not access it

If you really have to do more then set up parental controlls in the os ... set a bios password ... and phisicaly lock the case to protect your PC from your kid you may want to evaluate providing him with ANY access to said computer

Any nice screenshots for us?
Of vista, i have 2 shots of my own sitting here somewhere, i will look them out and host them somewhere. I will get more when i next boot vista. lol i turned off all the shinyness on it at the moment and it is fugly.

Link doesnt work for me. Erm damn that is quite a machine, i mean mine is wow it is crying just looking at those specs.
Link fixed

I understand that but I mean if you were a parent that was trying to lock down their computer so a child can not access it

If you really have to do more then set up parental controlls in the os ... set a bios password ... and phisicaly lock the case to protect your PC from your kid you may want to evaluate providing him with ANY access to said computer
You may also want to question why you had kids if they are that hellish... :p bah when i have kids i will teach them a computer is a friendly tool that can also play some wicked games, i will not restrict what they do, but with vista i could monitor, every week view a log of what they have been upto, and there is a icon that can be put in the taskbar so teh kid knows they are being watched, but there is also a way of removing the icon so there is no way for the child to tell they are being monitored so to speak.

You may also want to question why you had kids if they are that hellish... :p bah when i have kids i will teach them a computer is a friendly tool that can also play some wicked games, i will not restrict what they do, but with vista i could monitor, every week view a log of what they have been upto, and there is a icon that can be put in the taskbar so teh kid knows they are being watched, but there is also a way of removing the icon so there is no way for the child to tell they are being monitored so to speak.
Sorry my kids are going open source :) I have decided that ... they will learn *nix from the very begining

Sorry my kids are going open source :) I have decided that ... they will learn *nix from the very begining
That is fair enough but you should expose them to both open source and windows as windows is so widely used. I would like to enquire why 2 opterons when you could say have 1 dual core x2??

Pic of vista chess (Chess titans) (http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/2488/chess8dg.jpg)
Adaware. messenger, new media player (http://img445.imageshack.us/img445/5850/adawareonvista3iz.jpg)
Will get better screenies later they are all i have at the moment.

That is fair enough but you should expose them to both open source and windows as windows is so widely used. I would like to enquire why 2 opterons when you could say have 1 dual core x2??
1) Opterons hands down whomp the X2 for standard serving applications
2) *Nix can push the opterons even farther
3) Sever board which allows me to go up to 24 gig of ram while having built in raid 5 SATA II support
4) Built a year ago X2's were brand new
5) My board will suport Dual, Dual core opterons when I get the money (so quad core)

Pic of vista chess (Chess titans) (http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/2488/chess8dg.jpg)
Adaware. messenger, new media player (http://img445.imageshack.us/img445/5850/adawareonvista3iz.jpg)
Will get better screenies later they are all i have at the moment.
Thanks...it looks...more or less exactly the same.

1) Opterons hands down whomp the X2 for standard serving applications
2) *Nix can push the opterons even farther
3) Sever board which allows me to go up to 24 gig of ram while having built in raid 5 SATA II support
4) Built a year ago X2's were brand new
5) My board will suport Dual, Dual core opterons when I get the money (so quad core)
OK just not what one would expect to see in a house. lol... i often fantasied about making a server... but i decided against it cause i only had 200£ lol

Thanks...it looks...more or less exactly the same.
I will get screens of different parts of it to show how different it is, and show some of the new features. It looks the same in windows layout and teh such, but remember those are xp programs i am runnign minus the chess... and it doesnt show inside folders or the start menu which is pretty darn funky :D

OK just not what one would expect to see in a house. lol... i often fantasied about making a server... but i decided against it cause i only had 200£ lol
I scrimped and built it for about 1500 USD

Edit BTW dont know if you saw but link is fixed

I scrimped and built it for about 1500 USD

Edit BTW dont know if you saw but link is fixed
Yeah i had a look, it is why i asked about the dual, cause now if i hear the word dual i automatically think dual core. a curse i guess lol. damn big picture too.

Pic of vista chess (Chess titans) (http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/2488/chess8dg.jpg)
Adaware. messenger, new media player (http://img445.imageshack.us/img445/5850/adawareonvista3iz.jpg)
Will get better screenies later they are all i have at the moment.
OMFG I cant believe they frigging ripped off the Gnome Areo theme pack

http://www.gnome-look.org/content/pre1/35437-1.jpg

WTF!

Yeah i had a look, it is why i asked about the dual, cause now if i hear the word dual i automatically think dual core. a curse i guess lol. damn big picture too.
I wanted my baby to look beautifull

OMFG I cant believe they frigging ripped off the Gnome Areo theme pack

http://www.gnome-look.org/content/pre1/35437-1.jpg

WTF!
You might want to say when that was made because they have been working on the aero UI for vista for a good year and a half. lol that long to get one skin done. and they arent that similar really.

You might want to say when that was made because they have been working on the aero UI for vista for a good year and a half. lol that long to get one skin done. and they arent that similar really.
I had that Item Pack 4 years ago now on my old fedora box

Edit and .5 was origionaly submitted (this version) on july 05 ... final version release in 06

But it looked almost the same but in a GTK 1 (instead of 2) format in version .4 and .3

Edit: I was looking at ICON theme alone (thats what areo is) they are using a metacity overall theme

I had that Item Pack 4 years ago now on my old fedora box

Edit and .5 was origionaly submitted (this version) on july 05 ... final version release in 06

But it looked almost the same but in a GTK 1 (instead of 2) format in version .4 and .3

Edit: I was looking at ICON theme alone (thats what areo is) they are using a metacity overall theme
Oh right lol, i thought you meant teh toolbars and the such, erm those icons are quite similar, but remember with thousands of people out there developing it is pretty impossible for some stuff not to be similar.

Oh right lol, i thought you meant teh toolbars and the such, erm those icons are quite similar, but remember with thousands of people out there developing it is pretty impossible for some stuff not to be similar.
http://www.gnome-look.org/index.php?xcontentmode=100

Lol somehow hundreds of others managed to do all kinds of different things (thoes are themes not item packs)

Though if they are based of a simmilar theme (such as clearlooks) they at least credit where they got it from :)

http://www.gnome-look.org/index.php?xcontentmode=100

Lol somehow hundreds of others managed to do all kinds of different things (thoes are themes not item packs)

Though if they are based of a simmilar theme (such as clearlooks) they at least credit where they got it from :)
Ahh ok then think of this, Icon wise windows came up with the pc in the corner did they not? and bin? so technically everyone has copied windows :p
Theme wise having buttons in the top right for close max and min, was that also not windows who came up with that, i believe it was. :p
So in essence you could just say that they all copied windows!! lol but yeah it is only fair to credit the original creator.

Ahh ok then think of this, Icon wise windows came up with the pc in the corner did they not? and bin? so technically everyone has copied windows :p
Theme wise having buttons in the top right for close max and min, was that also not windows who came up with that, i believe it was. :p
So in essence you could just say that they all copied windows!! lol but yeah it is only fair to credit the original creator.
Not really Xerox came up with most of that (including locations)

They also came up with the mouse too btw

Depends on the board

Simple

5 dollar padlock

99 percent of all towers come with the ability to lock the case

If you are so worried that your kid is not only going to have the gumption to break a lock to get into the case so he can flash the bios so he can use a bootable distro to circumvent the OS security measures ... well maybe you may want to evaluate having a computer around the kid anyways

Because doing any more securing is un reasonable (In a home envyroment)

Well, I've only seen 1 case which was lockable for starters. For finishers, I am a kid and so don't have one, although I don't know why you assume it will be a boy. :eek:

Well, I've only seen 1 case which was lockable for starters. For finishers, I am a kid and so don't have one, although I don't know why you assume it will be a boy. :eek:
Just an exapmple

Habbit I guess ... I was blackhat for 2 years and whitehat for the last 3 and only met one female of any note (I miss pyth)

Anyways I just checked all the towers in the office as well as at home ... everything from stock HP cases (Both tower and desk slimline cases) as well as one shuttle ... there is only one that does not have a lock on it (36 in here right now)

and the one that did not had a kensington style lock ability

Just an exapmple

Habbit I guess ... I was blackhat for 2 years and whitehat for the last 3 and only met one female of any note (I miss pyth)

Anyways I just checked all the towers in the office as well as at home ... everything from stock HP cases (Both tower and desk slimline cases) as well as one shuttle ... there is only one that does not have a lock on it (36 in here right now)

and the one that did not had a kensington style lock ability

Well, I've only seen one and that was on a really old computer (133MHz). Maybe pre-built computers are different from custom-built ones?

Well, I've only seen one and that was on a really old computer (133MHz). Maybe pre-built computers are different from custom-built ones?
My stock HP tower

(which is a year old ... runing a p4 3.2 Ghz HT proc with a gig of ram) right in front of me has one :)

My stock HP tower

(which is a year old ... runing a p4 3.2 Ghz HT proc with a gig of ram) right in front of me has one :)

Perhaps it is different in the UK (unlikely I know). I'm just telling you what I've seen.

Perhaps it is different in the UK (unlikely I know). I'm just telling you what I've seen.
Either way if you have to worry about it to that point perhaps your child should not be around a computer

Just to say i have been around a good 400 computers in the last 3 years here and not one was able to lock. The dells in my school have a screw to stop people popping out the disc drives but that is it, you can't lock the cases. Mine which is a cusom build with a foreign (ebuyer extra value case) doesn't have a lock either. (doesn't need one you could just pull the side off it is that tacky...
But yes as i was saying here in britain i have never seen a pc in case that can be locked with a padlock or one with built in locks on it. Saw a case on the net i liked that had a lock but the case was too much and new power supply and a few other parts before a new case.