NationStates Jolt Archive

First Session, Third Parliament

NationStates General Parliament

The Chinese Republics, MP

Second Reading / Amendment

BILL 01

The Elections Act - 2006

An act to improve the election process

***************************


Preamble

WHEREAS the current election process does not ensure fairness and smoothness, and often caused disputes.

WHEREAS the current Puppet Vote Ban Act failed to prevent puppet voting, causing unpromising election results.

WITH THE ADVICE AND CONSENT of the NationStates General Parliament, enacts as follows:

Repeal

The Puppet Vote Ban Act - 2005, is repealed

The creation of the NationStates Elections Commission

- This is a non-partisan government organisation.
- Consist of the chief and six other members.
- The chief and members of the commission must be non-partisan.
- Responsible for voters registration, maintain voters list, maintian election results, operate election polls and voting booths, and election monitoring.

Changes to the election procedure rules

- Elections occur every 90-95 days and must be declared by the chief of the elections commission.
- Elections maybe declared earlier if the vote of no-confidence is passed by the parliament.
- Polls will be opened 14-30 days after declaration. [edited]
- Voters must register to vote. [added]
- Voter's registration numbers must be issued to registered voters by the commission. [added]
- Only registered voters on the voters list are allowed to vote.
- Polls must be made public in order to prevent puppet voting. [removed]
- The NationStates Elections Commission will use the "PM Ballot System" (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10723099&postcount=61) as a standard voting method. [added]
- Time frames will be specified by the commission. [added]
- Polls will remain open for 3 days.
- Results must be verified by the elections commission.

Political Parties

- There will be no proposed changes and will be left as is.

***

This is a phase where MPs approve the second reading of the legislation and propose changes to the bill.

***
MP Votes

Members approve the second reading of Bill 01? Yea or Nay

Yea (15): Vittos Ordination 2, The Chinese Republics, Maineiacs, Aust, Jello Biafra, Michaelic France, I V Stalin, Valori, Neu Leonstein, The Tribes of Longton, Undelia, Kanabia, Argesia, Fleckenstein, Blu-Tac

Nay (1): Harlesburg


Not Present / Abstained:

Rhovaniar
Achtung 45
Neo Kervoskia
DHomme
Aust
Santa Barbara
The Mowers
Cristia Elite
Thomish Kingdom
West Pacific


This debate shall last until April 17th, 2006 @ 8:25PM Pacific

Third reading will be scheduled to April 20th 2006 @ 9:00PM Pacific

I will cautiously support this with the advise that the election committee maintain a very easy registration process.

EDIT: Yea

bump

I abstain for the moment, but leaning towards Yea. However, i'm not sure if it's really going to work. Do people simply register their name in a different thread? That probably won't cut down on serious puppet voting much (OK it will make it a pain in the butt to do so, but...) and people will probably vote in the main election thread without registering or reading any instructions anyway, making it a cumbersome task of filtering out names to determine the winner.

I'm going to vote yea, but I do think we need to address how to make excessive policing unnecessary. Do we really want to spend days filtering out pupppets because some people didn't read the instructions, or thought it would be funny to stuff the ballot box? I've been thinking about this, but I have no idea what could be done that hasn't been suggested.

I abstain for the moment, but leaning towards Yea. However, i'm not sure if it's really going to work. Do people simply register their name in a different thread? That probably won't cut down on serious puppet voting much (OK it will make it a pain in the butt to do so, but...) and people will probably vote in the main election thread without registering or reading any instructions anyway, making it a cumbersome task of filtering out names to determine the winner.Well, that's why I'm proposing to create the elections commission. We see what happens after the non-partisan group is created. ;)

Btw, you should call Pure Metal the biggest genuis in NS. :D

Take a look: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10723099&postcount=61

Btw, I'll vote yea for the motion to amend the bill and the approval of the second reading.

Well, that's why I'm proposing to create the elections commission. We see what happens after the non-partisan group is created. ;)

Btw, you should call Pure Metal the biggest genuis in NS. :D

Take a look: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10723099&postcount=61

Btw, I'll vote yea for the motion to amend the bill and the approval of the second reading.

Wow, that looks great. :eek:

Wow, that looks great. :eek:Worth amending the bill eh? ;)

I abstain for the moment, but leaning towards Yea. However, i'm not sure if it's really going to work. Do people simply register their name in a different thread? That probably won't cut down on serious puppet voting much (OK it will make it a pain in the butt to do so, but...) and people will probably vote in the main election thread without registering or reading any instructions anyway, making it a cumbersome task of filtering out names to determine the winner.
that's what i think. voter registration may well be either too big a pain in the ass for most people to bother (this is a fictional election remember people) or most people won't realise (how many people read the preamble or whole OP of a poll anyway?)

i think the only way to see for sure is to do a dummy election or something, or start voter registration like... now, months before the election so regular or serious posters have a chance to register in time. it should be an ongoing process (and if that's what you meant TCR then make it clear damnit ;))


edit: if you want to use my ballot thingy then we could issue a voter registration number to registered voters, which would have to be supplied (instead of nation name, say - so it is secret again) on voting. that number could be checked off against a list pretty easy (or at least checked for duplicates)

i think the only way to see for sure is to do a dummy election or something, or start voter registration like... now, months before the election so regular or serious posters have a chance to register in time. it should be an ongoing process (and if that's what you meant TCR then make it clear damnit ;))Exactly, and sorry I didn't make this clear enough. ;)
edit: if you want to use my ballot thingy then we could issue a voter registration number to registered voters, which would have to be supplied (instead of nation name, say - so it is secret again) on voting. that number could be checked off against a list pretty easy (or at least checked for duplicates)That's what I'm going to ask btw. :)

I'm proposing a change to the bill that will accomodate PM's method of voting.

Exactly, and sorry I didn't make this clear enough. ;)

i couldn't work out how to say that without sounding rude... its too early in the morning! :p

That's what I'm going to ask btw. :)

I'm proposing a change to the bill that will accomodate PM's method of voting.
jolly good - glad i can help :)

...being the non-partisan i am *shiftyeyes* ;)

The NBIP votes yea!

Ok, I got rid of the amendment question because I felt it's pretty pointless. I'm going to make proposed changes to the bill later on.

I'm le tired. Good night. ;)

Put me down for a tentative "yes", though if the UDCP has a problem with this I will have to change my vote.

I vote yes unless there are strong feelings against this proposal by the UDCP.

I vote yea, with PM's system of voting.

The other ESP MPs should be voting yea as well, or I'll kick their arses.

Just a question PM - will the voting site for the real elections still say 'Pure Metal pwns j00' at the bottom?

I vote Yea.

For Now.

Yea.

Just a question PM - will the voting site for the real elections still say 'Pure Metal pwns j00' at the bottom?
Yes. (PM (with glitz))

I'm voting yea of my own volition. I V Stalin definitiley isn't stood here with an electrified cattle prod pressed against my prostate. I am certainy not a propaganist tool of the ESP machine whose sole purpose is to shout TWO LEGS GOOD FOUR LEGS BAD!...*ahem*, I mean whose sole purpose is to get people to vote for what they think is a silly party, but what is actually a communist dictatorship waiting to happen.

Yep.

I'm voting yea of my own volition. I V Stalin definitiley isn't stood here with an electrified cattle prod pressed against my prostate. I am certainy not a propaganist tool of the ESP machine whose sole purpose is to shout TWO LEGS GOOD FOUR LEGS BAD!...*ahem*, I mean whose sole purpose is to get people to vote for what they think is a silly party, but what is actually a communist dictatorship waiting to happen.

Yep.
Damn straight.

done and done ;)

Meh.

Yea

Hmm... I wonder if Ariddia ever read this bill? :p

OK, on reflection, I vote "Yea".

recorded

Nay, it's a game, people aren't gonna register 7 days in advance, we say lack of activity at the last election, if this went through then I think we'd have about 3 people voting.

heh. Not present or abstrained? What's that mean? c.c

Nay, it's a game, people aren't gonna register 7 days in advance, we say lack of activity at the last election, if this went through then I think we'd have about 3 people voting.
that's my worry but its a problem, not an impass. problems can be solved. this one can be solved by giving people plenty of time to register (many weeks/months/asap) and making the system whereby they do it simple and easy.

heh. Not present or abstrained? What's that mean? c.cBare with me, I'm a shitty typer.

Nay, it's a game, people aren't gonna register 7 days in advance, we say lack of activity at the last election, if this went through then I think we'd have about 3 people voting.I understand your concern. I remodified the bill again, take a look.

i'm here. check one more 'yea' down.

oh, and me likey the now-forever-titled PM system.

Yea.

recorded

Fine, yea.

hmm, the only thing the election has done is generate talk about the election.

Perhaps the Parliament could debate something interesting?

hmm, the only thing the election has done is generate talk about the election.

Perhaps the Parliament could debate something interesting?
Don't worry. The ESP has some legislation up its sleeve after the vote on this one.

This ought to be funny, it's probably about providing free whistles to all cats under the age of pi or something... :rolleyes:

This ought to be funny, it's probably about providing free whistles to all cats under the age of pi or something... :rolleyes:
I'd support that! :p

In fact, I demand that the ISP extends this legislation to all animals under the height of two feet.

I oppose.
Nay was feeling lonely.:)

I understand your concern. I remodified the bill again, take a look.
When did you modifiy it?

When did you modifiy it?Yesterday, Blu-tac complained that fixed time frames specified by the bill is too short and too complicated to work with.

I oppose.
Nay was feeling lonely.:)Recorded

And yes, Nay was feeling very loney after Blu-Tac ditched her. :D

Don't worry. The ESP has some legislation up its sleeve after the vote on this one.
We do? I thought we were all slogans and manipulation of the system by devious and covert means.

I'd support that! :p

In fact, I demand that the ISP extends this legislation to all animals under the height of two feet.
That's useful, what with you not being an MP and everything...

We do? I thought we were all slogans and manipulation of the system by devious and covert means.
We were, but that wasn't working.

That's useful, what with you not being an MP and everything...
Well, the Parliament is a farce of 'democracy' to begin with, so why worry about who is an MP?

This has got to be the easiest place ever created to have direct democracy, so why on earth is there a need for representation?

Well, the Parliament is a farce of 'democracy' to begin with, so why worry about who is an MP?

This has got to be the easiest place ever created to have direct democracy, so why on earth is there a need for representation?
structure. so many noobs. yadda yadda (i'm sure someone can give a proper/full reasoning, but thats how i see it)

i'm only posting here (non-MP) because a) i've been an MP, and b) i think i honestly have something positive to contribute.

structure. so many noobs. yadda yadda (i'm sure someone can give a proper/full reasoning, but thats how i see it)
But this is a forum, not real life. If something gets spammed and the vote manipulated into irrelevance, then so what? It's hardly as if the sun will stop shining and the Thought Police will decend on you when you leave your house.

The election itself is quite good fun, and an interesting way of seeing the general bias of the forum. But, beyond that, there is no need for any form of Parliament.

But this is a forum, not real life. If something gets spammed and the vote manipulated into irrelevance, then so what? It's hardly as if the sun will stop shining and the Thought Police will decend on you when you leave your house.

The election itself is quite good fun, and an interesting way of seeing the general bias of the forum. But, beyond that, there is no need for any form of Parliament.
*shrugs* i don't care. by your own admission your own complaint is irrelevant, so why are you doing so? (rhetorical question: i don't care about your answer if you choose to give one)

*shrugs* i don't care. by your own admission your own complaint is irrelevant, so why are you doing so? (rhetorical question: i don't care about your answer if you choose to give one)
Because not only is the Parliament irrelevant and pointless, it is not even doing anything in it's irrelevance and pointlessness.

You could reply that I could just ignore the threads if I don't like them, but the whole point of a Parliament is that you claim to be speaking for me, thus removing my ability to simply let you get on with it. Have elections every now and again, yes, but I think the flagship legislation of this Parliament should be to bring about the end of Parliament.

Under the standard NationStates system, I have one vote, equal with everyone else. The Parliament is regressive, as it removes that vote of mine in favour of a greater say for others. How is that in the slightest bit democratic?

Because not only is the Parliament irrelevant and pointless, it is not even doing anything in it's irrelevance and pointlessness.

then your complaint is equally as pointless if you view this as such


You could reply that I could just ignore the threads if I don't like them, but the whole point of a Parliament is that you claim to be speaking for me, thus removing my ability to simply let you get on with it. Have elections every now and again, yes, but I think the flagship legislation of this Parliament should be to bring about the end of Parliament.

if you have any constructive suggestions as to how to improve the parliamentary system, then please speak up. this system is far from perfect. however it does not intend, nor claim, to be a professional, functioning parliament - it is a bit of fun on an internet forum. some people take that too seriously. it is also 'run' against any number of difficulties including an incredibly wide-ranging political opinion-base, making it often very difficult to agree on anything - starting somewhere by legislating about one thing all parties can all agree on is an intelligent first step towards an active and functioning parliament. the first session was marred by absolute stalemates with certain parties (not naming names) often blocking even the most basic of legislation, such as a fundamental right to life. this system also has to cope with the practicalities of its MPs and supporters being from all around the world, online at different times, and often not online every day. it thus must take time over everything. don't forget that this parliament is also only in its 3rd session, and is still improving. we never got this far with a piece of legislation in either of the previous two parliamentary sessions (in fact, this is many, many times better than the first session), so give it time. i hear 'its not perfect right now so lets scrap it entirely' all too much from all over the place - referring from the UN to the EU... reform, work, and time is what is needed to get this thing "doing anything" as you say. if you have any constructive ideas, please do speak up. if not, sod off or shut up.

Under the standard NationStates system, I have one vote, equal with everyone else. The Parliament is regressive, as it removes that vote of mine in favour of a greater say for others. How is that in the slightest bit democratic?
representitive democracy. you do know something about politics, right?
and again we simply have to accept the limitations imposed on us by the practicalities of an international internet forum. the standard UN nationstates system is not an internet forum but a specifically designed game.

if you have any constructive suggestions as to how to improve the parliamentary system, then please speak up. this system is far from perfect. however it does not intend, nor claim, to be a professional, functioning parliament - it is a bit of fun on an internet forum. some people take that too seriously. it is also 'run' against any number of difficulties including an incredibly wide-ranging political opinion-base, making it often very difficult to agree on anything - starting somewhere by legislating about one thing all parties can all agree on is an intelligent first step towards an active and functioning parliament. the first session was marred by absolute stalemates with certain parties (not naming names) often blocking even the most basic of legislation, such as a fundamental right to life. this system also has to cope with the practicalities of its MPs and supporters being from all around the world, online at different times, and often not online every day. it thus must take time over everything. don't forget that this parliament is also only in its 3rd session, and is still improving. we never got this far with a piece of legislation in either of the previous two parliamentary sessions (in fact, this is many, many times better than the first session), so give it time. i hear 'its not perfect right now so lets scrap it entirely' all too much from all over the place - referring from the UN to the EU... reform, work, and time is what is needed to get this thing "doing anything" as you say. if you have any constructive ideas, please do speak up. if not, sod off or shut up.
So your answer is to say that "if you don't like it, sod off?" How very democratic of you; truly a beacon of freedom to those fundamentalist nations of the world.

You dismiss my comments as being 'unconstructive'. I would say quite the opposite; I have proposed a very real solution; you simply do not like it. Indeed, there is a high degree of irony in the fact that you cite the EU and the UN as organisations that simply 'need time' to come good; they've both had decades, and are as incompetent, corrupt and overly bureaucratic as ever. You say "give it time and it will work"; I say that a bad idea will never work, because it will always fundamentally remain a bad idea.

representitive democracy. you do know something about politics, right?
Indeed. I am a graduate of politics.

And, you have actually ignored what I said. Representative democracy is a requirement in a system where direct democracy is impossible. Either that, or where a ruling political elite feels the needs to 'protect' the nation from the 'uneducated' masses (ie those who disagree with that elite). Direct democracy is very easily available in the NationStates system; you have reduced my rights by setting up a representative system, not increased democracy.

Nor do I feel that the MPs are 'more informed' than anyone else on this forum.

however it does not intend, nor claim, to be a professional, functioning parliament - it is a bit of fun on an internet forum. some people take that too seriously
And this is where the ESP comes in...

Nor do I feel that the MPs are 'more informed' than anyone else on this forum.
Where did PM say the MPs are 'more informed'?

Where did PM say the MPs are 'more informed'?
He didn't. I gave reasons where a representative democracy is required; 'protection' from the 'uneducated masses' is one of them. I disputed that this criteria was met on this forum.

He didn't. I gave reasons where a representative democracy is required; 'protection' from the 'uneducated masses' is one of them. I disputed that this criteria was met on this forum.
Oh, right. Sorry, it's just you put it in quote marks, so I assumed you were quoting him.

Although if you cast noobs as the 'uneducated masses' then you could have an argument that some form of 'protection' is needed.

Indeed, there is a high degree of irony in the fact that you cite the EU and the UN as organisations that simply 'need time' to come good; they've both had decades, Isn't the EU, like, 12 years old?

Yesterday, Blu-tac complained that fixed time frames specified by the bill is too short and too complicated to work with.
Which Prince Rupert is your Location named after?

Isn't the EU, like, 12 years old?
Fourteen. But it has its origins in the EEC (European Economic Community - which itself was formed from the European Coal and Steel Community) and the EC (European Community), the former of which was founded through the Treaty of Rome in 1957.

Fourteen. But it has its origins in the EEC (European Economic Community - which itself was formed from the European Coal and Steel Community) and the EC (European Community), the former of which was founded through the Treaty of Rome in 1957.Ah, thank you.

So.....

How's it goin...

Because not only is the Parliament irrelevant and pointless, it is not even doing anything in it's irrelevance and pointlessness.

You could reply that I could just ignore the threads if I don't like them, but the whole point of a Parliament is that you claim to be speaking for me, thus removing my ability to simply let you get on with it. Have elections every now and again, yes, but I think the flagship legislation of this Parliament should be to bring about the end of Parliament.

Under the standard NationStates system, I have one vote, equal with everyone else. The Parliament is regressive, as it removes that vote of mine in favour of a greater say for others. How is that in the slightest bit democratic?

Hey, quit being retarded.

The point of this is to simulate party politics, not to set a code of laws for NS.

I don't give two shits if you have a voice in the legislation or not, because it doesn't matter.

He didn't. I gave reasons where a representative democracy is required; 'protection' from the 'uneducated masses' is one of them. I disputed that this criteria was met on this forum.

why the fuck do you care? it doesnt affect you, you're not a part of it, no one said you had to be a part of it, and its . . . . (drum roll)

fake.

get over it. laissez-les tomber, and go off and not pay attention to us.

we dont do anything to affect you, and you bitch like it alters youre very being?

this. is. for. fun.

oh, and to quote a friend,

You suck 'cause you're different!!!

Which Prince Rupert is your Location named after?
Named after Prince Rupert of the Rhine.

This name was chosen by a "name a city" contest.

Seriously, it's true.

Well, the Parliament is a farce of 'democracy' to begin with, so why worry about who is an MP?

This has got to be the easiest place ever created to have direct democracy, so why on earth is there a need for representation?
Because not only is the Parliament irrelevant and pointless, it is not even doing anything in it's irrelevance and pointlessness.

You could reply that I could just ignore the threads if I don't like them, but the whole point of a Parliament is that you claim to be speaking for me, thus removing my ability to simply let you get on with it. Have elections every now and again, yes, but I think the flagship legislation of this Parliament should be to bring about the end of Parliament.

Under the standard NationStates system, I have one vote, equal with everyone else. The Parliament is regressive, as it removes that vote of mine in favour of a greater say for others. How is that in the slightest bit democratic?

He didn't. I gave reasons where a representative democracy is required; 'protection' from the 'uneducated masses' is one of them. I disputed that this criteria was met on this forum.Well tell you what:

NOBODY GIVES A CONTINENTAL DAMN ABOUT WHAT THIS PARLIAMENT IS "SUPPOSE" TO WORK!!!

IT'S JUST A FUCKIN' FAKE PARLIAMENT ON AN INTERNET FORUM!!! OK!?!?!

So your answer is to say that "if you don't like it, sod off?" How very democratic of you; truly a beacon of freedom to those fundamentalist nations of the world.

no simply that your 'solution' is stupid and essentially ruins what is an enjoyable bit of fun for those who do no not have a problem with it.

the vocal minority are always a problem in democracy...

Bare with me, I'm a shitty typer.It's just that I remembered you'd made the same typo in the first reading and I began to woner if it was intentional.

Hey, quit being retarded.

The point of this is to simulate party politics, not to set a code of laws for NS.

I don't give two shits if you have a voice in the legislation or not, because it doesn't matter.
why the fuck do you care? it doesnt affect you, you're not a part of it, no one said you had to be a part of it, and its . . . . (drum roll)

fake.

get over it. laissez-les tomber, and go off and not pay attention to us.

we dont do anything to affect you, and you bitch like it alters youre very being?

this. is. for. fun.

oh, and to quote a friend,

You suck 'cause you're different!!!
Well tell you what:

NOBODY GIVES A CONTINENTAL DAMN ABOUT WHAT THIS PARLIAMENT IS "SUPPOSE" TO WORK!!!

IT'S JUST A FUCKIN' FAKE PARLIAMENT ON AN INTERNET FORUM!!! OK!?!?!
no simply that your 'solution' is stupid and essentially ruins what is an enjoyable bit of fun for those who do no not have a problem with it.

the vocal minority are always a problem in democracy...
You call it a 'NS General Parliament' and then complain when I say 'not in my name?' You want a bit of 'fun and games' in a Parliament simulation but run off crying when your system is challenged?

I think you need to better understand the nature of democracy. Any system that removes individual rights in favour of an elite who cry foul play when their power is challenged deserves to be criticised.

You call it a 'NS General Parliament' and then complain when I say 'not in my name?' You want a bit of 'fun and games' in a Parliament simulation but run off crying when your system is challenged?

I think you need to better understand the nature of democracy. Any system that removes individual rights in favour of an elite who cry foul play when their power is challenged deserves to be criticised.
You're English, yes?
Do you get a say in what laws the government passes, beyond voting once every few years in an election? No. So why are you now demanding a say here?

You're English, yes?
Do you get a say in what laws the government passes, beyond voting once every few years in an election? No. So why are you now demanding a say here?
Because, as I said above, NationStates starts with direct democracy and ends with representative democracy. This is a reduction in rights.

And, I never demanded a say here.

As I've said repeatedly, you claim to want a 'real' Parliament but then cry 'it's not real' when it is challenged. Perhaps I am playing the game, just not in the way you wanted.

If you want more say then why don't you stand for parliament at the next election?

If you want more say then why don't you stand for parliament at the next election?
The original and best rebel question; bring it down from the outside, or within? :p

Because, as I said above, NationStates starts with direct democracy and ends with representative democracy. This is a reduction in rights.

And, I never demanded a say here.

As I've said repeatedly, you claim to want a 'real' Parliament but then cry 'it's not real' when it is challenged. Perhaps I am playing the game, just not in the way you wanted.
I never claimed to want a 'real' Parliament. I'm the leader of the ESP!

Because, as I said above, NationStates starts with direct democracy and ends with representative democracy. This is a reduction in rights.

as i said above, NationStates, the Game, is a game and specifically designed piece of software. this is an internet forum. there is a large difference and not being able to see that this difference will create discrepencies in the possible political systems of the two is idiotic.


As I've said repeatedly, you claim to want a 'real' Parliament but then cry 'it's not real' when it is challenged. Perhaps I am playing the game, just not in the way you wanted.

its as 'real' as possible within the limits of what is realistically feasable on an internet forum.
frankly i do not believe a direct democracy would work here - the place is too tranisent, the opinions too varied, and there are too many misinformed noobs (yes, plato's 'mob rule' arguement) who come and go. this electoral system needs an artificial structure imposed on the relative anarchy that is an internet forum in order to function at all - it needs syphoning of political ideals into discrete groups of parties. and apart from anything else, this is just a bit of fun and the main point is the fun of the election (which you yourself said was enjoyable); the parliament is secondary (otherwise there would be no point at all of having elections) and without a representitive democratic system the elections just... would not be. hence an end to the fun.

that is what it boils down to and why i am personally getting so irritated with your pointless little jibes: this is a bit of fun for those involved (those not involved can easily get involved: it is not a closed system). it is a ficticious (semi-)roleplay and does not claim to be perfect, nor does not claim to have any power or any effect to its legislation. you, by being pedantic and childish as you are, are trying to ruin our fun for no end bar your own self-satisfaction. it makes no difference to you whatsoever, and you claim you do not want a part in it anyway. what is the point of trying to bring down and spoil what is simply a bit of fun for those involved? this is why many of us involved are asking (in less than polite terms i might add) you to shut up - it is not about the specific politics of the chosen democratic system, it is about the very notion of a parliament and the system we have actually worked quite hard to create for our own enjoyment. your coming in here and complaining incessantly is simply childish and pathetic, not to mention immensely irritating, pointless and a complete waste of everyone's time. why not just drop this and let us get on with our little bit of fun in peace?

i do hope you will listen to that last plea and leave us alone. thank you in advance if you do :)

snip
I have no idea how you have kept your sanity on NSG for so long if what I've said here is enough to irritate you. :eek:

I am not trying to be a barrier to your own amusement, but you have set up a Parliament on a public forum, so please do not complain that I have entered into the discussion. It is not your realm to keep as you please; if you want one that is private, then you need to look elsewhere.

I won't say anything more in the thread, because I am really not trying to be a killjoy; it is just, as I say, that this is a political, public forum, and I will not be told to 'sod of and shut up' for being, er, political and public.

You might find more people are willing to play your little game beyond the election if you were more realistic with your Parliament, open to other viewpoints, and stopped acting like a 'we don't want your kind here' club.

You call it a 'NS General Parliament' and then complain when I say 'not in my name?' You want a bit of 'fun and games' in a Parliament simulation but run off crying when your system is challenged?

I think you need to better understand the nature of democracy. Any system that removes individual rights in favour of an elite who cry foul play when their power is challenged deserves to be criticised.

Well you go make a thread where you can sit around and plan the assassination of parliamentary members. You can create a poll of which member you want to target first and have a true democratic vote for it.

Or you can start a party.

I don't give a shit.

Just remember that we started this to simulate party politics and campaigning, so to do what you are wanting to do would completely undermine this entire process. So when we tell you to fuck off, just remember that it is not because we don't like you, its just that your proposed changes are stupid.


The NSCL would appreciate your vote in the upcoming elections.

If you want more say then why don't you stand for parliament at the next election?

Sorry, that's my UN nation, I forgot to log on as Blu-tac.

Sorry, that's my UN nation, I forgot to log on as Blu-tac.

That's an impeachable offence.

I've been away for the past ten days, so I've only just seen this. Were I an MP, it would have my tentative support. It seems well thought-out. Congratulations (and to PM) for the effort you've put into it.

You might find more people are willing to play your little game beyond the election if you were more realistic with your Parliament, open to other viewpoints, and stopped acting like a 'we don't want your kind here' club.

who cares if other people play our 'little game', as you call it. and if it is a game, then why the hell are you bitchin?

if we're 'we dont want your kind', then how come you don't want our kind? you said this isn't fair, and yet you're not being fair. you simply respond to everything we do/say/respond as 'you're wrong and i'm right'. that's being not open to other viewpoints.

aren't you just a hypocrite covered in political clothing?

take the beam out of your own eye before you take the splinter out of you're neighbor's eye.

Well you go make a thread where you can sit around and plan the assassination of parliamentary members. You can create a poll of which member you want to target first and have a true democratic vote for it.

Or you can start a party.

I don't give a shit.

Just remember that we started this to simulate party politics and campaigning, so to do what you are wanting to do would completely undermine this entire process. So when we tell you to fuck off, just remember that it is not because we don't like you, its just that your proposed changes are stupid.


The NSCL would appreciate your vote in the upcoming elections.
Ah, the old 'you're an idiot but we want your vote' tactic. Works a charm, every time.

Ah, the old 'you're an idiot but we want your vote' tactic. Works a charm, every time.

They've done studies you know:

60% of the time, it works every time.

They've done studies you know:

60% of the time, it works every time.
Yup. The other 40% don't vote.

It's just that I remembered you'd made the same typo in the first reading and I began to woner if it was intentional.The "T" and "R" keys are right beside each other. :)

Sorry, that's my UN nation, I forgot to log on as Blu-tac.OMG!!! OMG!!!111 IT'S A VOTING PUPPET!!!111 SHOOT HIM!!!!

JK LOL

*snip*
*snip*
*snip*
Again:

NOBODY GIVES A CONTINENTAL DAMN ABOUT HOW THIS PARLIAMENT "SUPPOSE" TO WORK!!!

IT'S JUST A FUCKIN' FAKE PARLIAMENT ON AN INTERNET FORUM!!!

STICK IT IN YOUR EAR!!! OK!?!?!

OMG!!! OMG!!!111 IT'S A VOTING PUPPET!!!111 SHOOT HIM!!!!

JK LOL

I wouldn't doubt it.

I wish we had the votes from the last election just to see.

Again:

NOBODY GIVES A CONTINENTAL DAMN ABOUT HOW THIS PARLIAMENT "SUPPOSE" TO WORK!!!

IT'S JUST A FUCKIN' FAKE PARLIAMENT ON AN INTERNET FORUM!!!

STICK IT IN YOUR EAR!!! OK!?!?!
If you're going to say the same rubbish twice you should at least correct the spelling mistakes. :rolleyes:

who cares if other people play our 'little game', as you call it. and if it is a game, then why the hell are you bitchin?

if we're 'we dont want your kind', then how come you don't want our kind? you said this isn't fair, and yet you're not being fair. you simply respond to everything we do/say/respond as 'you're wrong and i'm right'. that's being not open to other viewpoints.

aren't you just a hypocrite covered in political clothing?

take the beam out of your own eye before you take the splinter out of you're neighbor's eye.
Well boo-hoo. I haven't said 'you're wrong and I'm right at all', so please don't make out as if I had.

I make some political points on a political topic on a political forum (shock horror!) and get told to "sod off," "shut up," "f**k off" etc. Thank God this is just a fake Parliament, because if you were really in power it would be frightening.

Play with your little toy Parliament, as I said, I'm not going to stand in your way. But unless something happens that means this one is drastically different from all the others, it will die again. That may come as a surprise to you, but it won't be to anyone else.

If you're going to say the same rubbish twice you should at least correct the spelling mistakes. :rolleyes:
Erm...it is all spelled correctly. Some bad grammar, but the spelling's fine.

Erm...it is all spelled correctly. Some bad grammar, but the spelling's fine.
I stand corrected.

I stand corrected.nay.

Some bad grammarSadly that's my only weakness. :(
but the spelling's fine.lol

nay.
Seriously, all of you, I'm not trying to spoil your fun, and I certainly don't want to make enemies of you. :(

I just made a point about politics - this is NationStates, after all, and got really quite rude replies in response. And I'm not very good at walking away when people are rude to me. It's so hard to 'disengage' from an argument in this place when the moment you do go people either gloat, or sneak in a derogotory last word.

I'm happy to agree to disagree with you on this point and leave you to it. I hope you won't dislike me for raising my disagreement.

Seriously, all of you, I'm not trying to spoil your fun, and I certainly don't want to make enemies of you. :(

I just made a point about politics - this is NationStates, after all, and got really quite rude replies in response. And I'm not very good at walking away when people are rude to me. It's so hard to 'disengage' from an argument in this place when the moment you do go people either gloat, or sneak in a derogotory last word.

I'm happy to agree to disagree with you on this point and leave you to it. I hope you won't dislike me for raising my disagreement.
Hey, I don't dislike you. You seem quite fun in other threads, and you're always good for a debate. It's just you seem to think we're about serious politics and representation. As I would say to one of my friends - fuck that shit. I joined the ESP because there was promise of drunkenness, Jaffa Cakes, and a murderous hamster called Colin.

Seriously, all of you, I'm not trying to spoil your fun, and I certainly don't want to make enemies of you. :(

I just made a point about politics - this is NationStates, after all, and got really quite rude replies in response. And I'm not very good at walking away when people are rude to me. It's so hard to 'disengage' from an argument in this place when the moment you do go people either gloat, or sneak in a derogotory last word.

I'm happy to agree to disagree with you on this point and leave you to it. I hope you won't dislike me for raising my disagreement.
very good of you :)
while you did irritate the hell out of me for a while there, i bear no resentment and, for the record, while you're welcome to an opinion with regard to this while malarkey i think it was perhaps just the... force of your opinion that got people's backs up. i tried to explain the reasoning behind the fierce resistance you met on this thread (rather than just hurling insults at you) in the hope that you might have the opportunity to back down - yes, i know all too well how hard it is to leave an arguement on here (without seeming like you're conceding).
point is: thank you :fluffle: (see, you even get a fluffle! ;) :p)

Seriously, all of you, I'm not trying to spoil your fun, and I certainly don't want to make enemies of you. :(

I just made a point about politics - this is NationStates, after all, and got really quite rude replies in response. And I'm not very good at walking away when people are rude to me. It's so hard to 'disengage' from an argument in this place when the moment you do go people either gloat, or sneak in a derogotory last word.

I'm happy to agree to disagree with you on this point and leave you to it. I hope you won't dislike me for raising my disagreement.

you're very good at pushing buttons, i'll admit.

*reserves last comment*

whatever. why the sudden change though? (asks innocently)

i dont dislike you for youre argument, i just happen to fully oppose youre ideas and how you present them :)

Seriously, all of you, I'm not trying to spoil your fun, and I certainly don't want to make enemies of you.

I just made a point about politics - this is NationStates, after all, and got really quite rude replies in response. And I'm not very good at walking away when people are rude to me. It's so hard to 'disengage' from an argument in this place when the moment you do go people either gloat, or sneak in a derogotory last word.

I'm happy to agree to disagree with you on this point and leave you to it. I hope you won't dislike me for raising my disagreement.

I think when you call something people are doing for fun, "Irrelevant and Pointless," you are bound to get not so nice responses.

However, I didn't really care about this argument to begin with seeing how it had nothing to do with the subject at hand, so I didn't know who you were to begin with and I still have absolutely no idea who you are. No Harm, No Foul.

So, Make like a banana and split. :p