NationStates Jolt Archive

http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/04/08/france.trial.reut/index.html

CRETEIL, France (Reuters) -- A French court sentenced a man to 25 years in prison on Saturday for burning to death a teenage girl in a garbage depot in a Parisian suburb.

Outrage over the death of 17-year-old Sohane Benziane in October 2002 produced a wave of feminist protest across France, with women rallying against an atmosphere of fear and violence haunting many girls in poor suburbs.

In the trial, Jamal Derrar, 22, admitted having led Benziane into the garbage depot, dousing her with petrol and threatening her with a lighter, but he said he only wanted to scare her.

Whoopee.

25 years? I'm sorry but that should be a life sentence since I doubt France has the DP.

Why does him being a muslim have anything to do with the price of cheese in Albania?

EDIT - It doesn't even say he's a Muslim. If you're going by names, what about: "His friend Tony Rocca, 23, was sentenced to eight years for complicity in the crime."

It's interesting. Nowhere in that article is the man's religion mentioned, yet you assume he's a Muslim. Why?

Topic title edited. That's me being generous.

It's interesting. Nowhere in that article is the man's religion mentioned, yet you assume he's a Muslim. Why?

Jamal Derrar, 22

>_>

>_>

Yes. I see his name. You assume he's Muslim. Either prove he's a Muslim to me or admit you're an ignorant fuck.

Yes. I see his name. You assume he's Muslim. Either prove he's a Muslim to me or admit you're an ignorant fuck.

Fine. I'm an ignorant fuck who's right.

I had relatives that remind me of you. Back in Germany. A few decades back.
I can still see that. :rolleyes:

Don't troll. This news story does not mention religion. Attempt to attach defamatory religious meaning to it, and your posting priviliges will take a holiday.

Fine. I'm an ignorant fuck who's right.

That wasn't the option. If you cannot prove he's Muslim, then you are wrong.

Oh, and turns out, I was right. Change the topic title back.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sohane_Benziane

Oh, and turns out, I was right. Change the topic title back.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sohane_Benziane
Haha. Wikipedia. Nice try. No.

It's proof enough for me. This is a Chuck Norris moment.

'Cause the eyes of a ranger are upon you...

This reminds me of the Christian mom who cut the arms off her baby.

Oh, and turns out, I was right. Change the topic title back.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sohane_Benziane

In what way? It does not say he was a Muslim, as far as I can tell. It says she was a Muslim.

In what way? It does not say he was a Muslim, as far as I can tell. It says she was a Muslim.

It says he's a muslim gang leader.

25 years? I'm sorry but that should be a life sentence since I doubt France has the DP.

Unless things have changed drastically, 25 years is a life sentence in a French prison. Imagine this: isolation cell, no light, irregular meal times, a bucket for a latrine that may get emptied once a week. Chances are he is going to die of pneumonia or some other disease related to unsanitary conditions in a year.

You have to remember, these are the folks that came up with the oubliette.

This reminds me of the Christian mom who cut the arms off her baby.

Every religion has nutters. islam just has quite a bit more. Who are a little bit more nutty.

It says he's a muslim gang leader.

No, it doesn't. Read:

On October 4, 2002 in Vitry-sur-Seine, in a predominently Muslim satellite town of Paris, 17 year old Sohane Benziane, the daughter of Kabyle immigrants, was burned alive in front of her friends in a cellar by a gang leader after he had an argument with her former boyfriend. While a watch was kept outside, the aggressor, a local caid nicknamed Nono ,who had bought the bottle of gasoline a day before ,poured gasoline over Sohane and set her on fire with a lighter.

Unless things have changed drastically, 25 years is a life sentence in a French prison. Imagine this: isolation cell, no light, irregular meal times, a bucket for a latrine that may get emptied once a week. Chances are he is going to die of pneumonia or some other disease related to unsanitary conditions in a year.
Source?

In other news, I saw a funny pic of muslims on Yahoo. Wanna see?

No, it doesn't. Read:

There's a poorly written caption under the picture in the bottom right hand corner.

In other news, I saw a funny pic of muslims on Yahoo. Wanna see?

No. I want to see proof that this guy is a Muslim.

It says he's a muslim gang leader.

He could be a Jew who just happens to lead a Muslim Gang for tax reasons.

There's a poorly written caption under the picture in the bottom right hand corner.

Gang Leader Jamal Derrar arrest after murder of Sohanne Benziane

If it was there, it's not anymore. And now we see why Wikipedia doesn't count as proof.

No, it doesn't. Read:

On October 4, 2002 in Vitry-sur-Seine, in a predominently Muslim satellite town of Paris, 17 year old Sohane Benziane, the daughter of Kabyle immigrants, was burned alive in front of her friends in a cellar by a gang leader after he had an argument with her former boyfriend. While a watch was kept outside, the aggressor, a local caid nicknamed Nono ,who had bought the bottle of gasoline a day before ,poured gasoline over Sohane and set her on fire with a lighter.

Every religion has nutters. islam just has quite a bit more. Who are a little bit more nutty.

You've never been to Alabama.

Source?
What? You want me to research things for you? I could be completely wrong, but I'm not desperate enough to substantiate anything I have said. Feel free to do the research. Then you can tell me if I'm right or not.

On October 4, 2002 in Vitry-sur-Seine, in a predominently Muslim satellite town of Paris, 17 year old Sohane Benziane, the daughter of Kabyle immigrants, was burned alive in front of her friends in a cellar by a gang leader after he had an argument with her former boyfriend. While a watch was kept outside, the aggressor, a local caid nicknamed Nono ,who had bought the bottle of gasoline a day before ,poured gasoline over Sohane and set her on fire with a lighter.

Yes. I can read that. Now show me where it says he's a Muslim.

If it was there, it's not anymore. And now we see why Wikipedia doesn't count as proof.

In the talk page:

"Hi, I edited this article because there was a lot of mistakes about Sohane's murder. She was killed by her former boyfriend not by a gang and there was no rape or tournante involved"


What? You want me to research things for you? I could be completely wrong, but I'm not desperate enough to substantiate anything I have said. Feel free to do the research. Then you can tell me if I'm right or not.

Then I am willing to dismiss your unsubstantiated comment out of hand, because I too am too lazy to research it. Good day.

Yes. I can read that. Now show me where it says he's a Muslim.

Down the bottom.

Beside, she was a muslim, killed because she didn't obey his orders. He has a muslim name. He was a gang leader. If he isn't muslim, I'd be extremely surprised.

In the talk page:

"Hi, I edited this article because there was a lot of mistakes about Sohane's murder. She was killed by her former boyfriend not by a gang and there was no rape or tournante involved"


So someone edited out the word Muslim because it was a mistake?

And even if he is the kid of immigrants from North Africa (which he most likely is)...how does that make him Muslim?

The vast, vast majority of slum kids don't believe in anything, especially not religion.

Those who do become religious tend to devote their time to that, rather than street and gang violence.

I sorta missed the original thread title, but I have to say that this was pretty damn low, even by K-P's standards.

Excuse me, it's wikipedia, ANYONE can edit it. I checked the edit page and the most recent edit is removing the adjective 'Muslim' from in front 'gang leader'. I wouldn't trust it either way.

Here's another site that says he was Muslim: http://www.democracyfrontline.org/news/?p=343
I leave it to you to decide if it is credible enough.

Down the bottom.

Beside, she was a muslim, killed because she didn't obey his orders. He has a muslim name. He was a gang leader. If he isn't muslim, I'd be extremely surprised.

Down the bottom what? You have yet to provide even the remotest of proof that this guy was a Muslim, and that you are anything but an ignorant fuck.

All Hail Wikipedia!

History disagrees with you? That's cool. There's an edit button. :rolleyes:

Why trust Wiki when the guy citing it could have written half the article?

Excuse me, it's wikipedia, ANYONE can edit it. I checked the edit page and the most recent edit is removing the adjective 'Muslim' from in front 'gang leader'. I wouldn't trust it either way.

Here's another site that says he was Muslim: http://www.democracyfrontline.org/news/?p=343
I leave it to you to decide if it is credible enough.

No. The actual article doesn't mention his religion at all. The douchebag posting the comment does.

Source?

A prison doctor is publishing a diary I believe.

http://www.studentbmj.com/back_issues/0300/news/55b.html

And even if he is the kid of immigrants from North Africa (which he most likely is)...how does that make him Muslim?

The vast, vast majority of slum kids don't believe in anything, especially not religion.

Those who do become religious tend to devote their time to that, rather than street and gang violence.

I sorta missed the original thread title, but I have to say that this was pretty damn low, even by K-P's standards.

I'm sorry, but let's face it: it's not Jacques or Pierre or Francois doing these things. And even if he wasn't a devout muslim, he likely takes into mind the cultural influences of it.

Topic title edited. That's me being generous.
Ah now all the anger makes sense.

I'm sorry, but let's face it: it's not Jacques or Pierre or Francois doing these things.
Of course it is.
You need to do a lot of reading about life in European slums. There are a few very good, very realistic movies around as well, if reading is not up your alley.

And even if he wasn't a devout muslim, he likely takes into mind the cultural influences of it.
Hardly.
First Generation immigrants almost never bother with religion. That's one of the strange things that people are talking about now - that second generation immigrants sometimes become very religious indeed, despite having had no encouragement at all from their parents.

At any rate, burning people alive is more of a Hindu thing than an Islam thing. So quite obviously he was taking his cues from all the Indian immigrants.

Of course it is.
You need to do a lot of reading about life in European slums. There are a few very good, very realistic movies around as well, if reading is not up your alley.


Hardly.
First Generation immigrants almost never bother with religion. That's one of the strange things that people are talking about now - that second generation immigrants sometimes become very religious indeed, despite having had no encouragement at all from their parents.

At any rate, burning people alive is more of a Hindu thing than an Islam thing. So quite obviously he was taking his cues from all the Indian immigrants.

I assumed he was a devout French Catholic with a Joan of Arc obsession.

I'm sorry, but let's face it: it's not Jacques or Pierre or Francois doing these things. And even if he wasn't a devout muslim, he likely takes into mind the cultural influences of it.

"His friend Tony Rocca, 23, was sentenced to eight years for complicity in the crime."

Let us now ponder the religion and background culture of Mr. Tony Rocca.

At any rate, burning people alive is more of a Hindu thing than an Islam thing. So quite obviously he was taking his cues from all the Indian immigrants.

Hindus tend to be friendly, though. Except the Thuggees... and I don't think they're Hindu, and I'm not sure they even exist anymore.

"His friend Tony Rocca, 23, was sentenced to eight years for complicity in the crime."

Let us now ponder the religion and background culture of Mr. Tony Rocca.

Well, he's obviously a Muslim too.

Let us now ponder the religion and background culture of Mr. Tony Rocca.
:eek: :eek: :eek:
Damn Itakers are back!!!

All those right-wingers and authoritarians and Nazi leftovers were right in the sixties and seventies!

Oh, but we didn't listen! WE DIDN'T LISTEN!!!

Ah now all the anger makes sense.
The new title seems sort of un-PC as well, though, but I guess the French already have an acknowledgedly crappy track record regarding women and fire safety.
Look, Kanabia, I'm even substantiating my claim, just for you:
http://www.paralumun.com/witcharras.htm

:eek: :eek: :eek:
Damn Itakers are back!!!

All those right-wingers and authoritarians and Nazi leftovers were right in the sixties and seventies!

Oh, but we didn't listen! WE DIDN'T LISTEN!!!

:D

You know who the name Tony Rocca reminds me of?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/9e/The_Simpsons-Fat_Tony.png/200px-The_Simpsons-Fat_Tony.png

The new title seems sort of un-PC as well, though, but I guess the French already have an acknowledgedly crappy track record regarding women and fire safety.
Look, Kanabia, I'm even substantiating my claim, just for you:
http://www.paralumun.com/witcharras.htm

Hahaha :p

Hindus tend to be friendly, though. Except the Thuggees... and I don't think they're Hindu, and I'm not sure they even exist anymore.
http://www.abc.net.au/rn/relig/spirit/stories/s1091177.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu_fundamentalism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_%28film%29#Controversies
http://driftglass.blogspot.com/2006/02/when-bigots-go-main-street.html
http://www.genders.org/g32/g32_moorti.html

and so on and so forth.

Believe me, Hindu fundamentalists can keep up pretty well.

Let us now ponder the religion and background culture of Mr. Tony Rocca.
Well, you know how those Muslims like the spicy meatah-ballah!
I'm sorry for that; I'll go drag myself out back and shoot me now.

http://www.abc.net.au/rn/relig/spirit/stories/s1091177.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu_fundamentalism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_%28film%29#Controversies
http://driftglass.blogspot.com/2006/02/when-bigots-go-main-street.html
http://www.genders.org/g32/g32_moorti.html

and so on and so forth.

Believe me, Hindu fundamentalists can keep up pretty well.

Yeah, but that makes it look like they keep it at home. Which is fine with me. As long as they don't bring their crap here.

Yeah, but that makes it look like they keep it at home. Which is fine with me. As long as they don't bring their crap here.
Well, Muslim fundamentalism is at home as well. The only protest that was anything but a peaceful affirmation of beliefs, as done by environmentalists for example, was in London, and that was organised by LeT (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lashkar-e-Toiba).

And obviously LeT is not representative of all Muslims. Hell, they're not even representative of radical non-Pakistani Muslims.

I'm sorry, but let's face it: it's not Jacques or Pierre or Francois doing these things. And even if he wasn't a devout muslim, he likely takes into mind the cultural influences of it.

Some checking around, including the original French articles, does not lead to conclude he was muslem. No reliable sources state so.

However, the gang rivalry in those neighbourhoods is indeed often based on Jews vs. Muslems. It is therefor definately a possibility, just like it is possible he was a Jew.

However, the gang rivalry in those neighbourhoods is indeed often based on Jews vs. Muslems.
Have you got any links on that? Because that's the first time I heard of that.

Jamal is an afrocentric/typically Muslim name.
However I am not certain that Derrar is a Muslim name, it doesnt look Muslim, it doesnt sound Muslim.

This is an assumption on my part that if his parents were Muslim they would have taken a name in the Language of the Prophet---very common.

If Jamal is a convert, almost without exception is a complete Muslim name taken(typically from the 99 names...of which this is not one).

So I dont see him being Muslim.

Have you got any links on that? Because that's the first time I heard of that.
weren't a bunch of muslim kids in a poor area of france recently charged for beating a kid to death because they figured he was jewish? maybe someone else has a better bead on that story...

weren't a bunch of muslim kids in a poor area of france recently charged for beating a kid to death because they figured he was jewish? maybe someone else has a better bead on that story...
There was a recent case of a kidnapping, where a bunch of criminals (although I think they were from Central Africa...:confused: ) abducted a Jew and eventually tortured him to death.

Hundreds of thousands protested against anti-semitism.

There was a recent case of a kidnapping, where a bunch of criminals (although I think they were from Central Africa...:confused: ) abducted a Jew and eventually tortured him to death.

Hundreds of thousands protested against anti-semitism.

yeah, that sounds about right. are there no muslims in central africa?

This is horrible! Why would anyone douse someone in petrol and threaten them with a lighter for a joke? Or even douse in petrol!

This is horrible! Why would anyone douse someone in petrol and threaten them with a lighter for a joke? Or even douse in petrol!

You had to be there.

yeah, that sounds about right. are there no muslims in central africa?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4774000.stm

Not sure, wiki says that most people are Christians, but more and more workers and refugess have come in from neighbouring countries, and those are Muslim.

At any rate, this crime was for money, not religion.

"His friend Tony Rocca, 23, was sentenced to eight years for complicity in the crime."

Let us now ponder the religion and background culture of Mr. Tony Rocca.

He was the one brother who failed to make the Collingwood Football Club:
http://www.realfooty.theage.com.au/ffximage/2004/04/21/22s_oconnorrocca,0.jpg
http://www.theage.com.au/ffxImage/urlpicture_id_1061434984468_2003/08/21/anthony_rocca,0.jpg

At any rate, this crime was for money, not religion.

It definitely had some religious or cultural significance.

It definitely had some religious or cultural significance.
as i understood it, it was about money. jews have money, ergo, he was a good pick. i just remember the signs people were holding saying, "i'm jewish, i wish i had money"

so yeah, from that point of view, it isn't really necessary at all that they were muslim.

It definitely had some religious or cultural significance.

And I think you have some racist/paranoid significance. Let's look at your name. Prussia. Hmmm, Prussia used to have Austria in it. A certain fascist came from Austria who became world infamous. So you must have had fascist background too.

See? I can do associations by names too. Isn't it fun?

And I think you have some racist/paranoid significance. Let's look at your name. Prussia. Hmmm, Prussia used to have Austria in it. A certain fascist came from Austria who became world infamous. So you must have had fascist background too.

See? I can do associations by names too. Isn't it fun?

That was awesome.

And I think you have some racist/paranoid significance. Let's look at your name. Prussia. Hmmm, Prussia used to have Austria in it. A certain fascist came from Austria who became world infamous. So you must have had fascist background too.

See? I can do associations by names too. Isn't it fun?

Prussia never had Austria in it. They were bitter rivals. Stooge.

He was the one brother who failed to make the Collingwood Football Club:

Heh! :p

He was the one brother who failed to make the Collingwood Football Club:


Anthony kicked a bag of eight today, what a champion.

http://afl.com.au/default.asp?pg=news&spg=display&articleid=256274

http://www.theage.com.au/realfooty/news/afl/pies-storm-home-against-hawks/2006/04/09/1144521202719.html

http://home.iprimus.com.au/petercp/temp/rocca2003_18.jpg

It definitely had some religious or cultural significance.Yeah I agree with you.. I say It was a Jew killing a muslim Girl[/sarc]

and If Tactical Grace had not saved you, from your own stupidity.. a lot more people would be calling you an Idiot.

It definitely had some religious or cultural significance.
Well, even the guy who did it said it hadn't.

But the wider cultural significance was definitely that many thousands all over France demonstrated against racism and antisemitism.

So, when do you think that Europe is going to realise that they'll soon be overrun by these "problems?"

So, when do you think that Europe is going to realise that they'll soon be overrun by these "problems?"
They already have.

If you had kept up a little more, you'd have realised how much the focus and rhetoric has shifted as far as immigration-related policies are concerned since 9/11, and particularly since the Madrid and London Bombings.

That they don't seriously consider lunatic plans to just kill or deport millions and millions of citizens or residents can't be held against them.

http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,410102,00.html
http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,410274,00.html

25 years? I'm sorry but that should be a life sentence since I doubt France has the DP.

There is no real life sentence in France either. We are civilised country, we don't consider that the society has any right to halt the life of someone, be it by killing him or by sentencing until the end of his life.

25 years is a already long, long sentence. Why should he be sentenced to more ? That would stop being justice, and become vengeance.

Unless things have changed drastically, 25 years is a life sentence in a French prison. Imagine this: isolation cell, no light, irregular meal times, a bucket for a latrine that may get emptied once a week. Chances are he is going to die of pneumonia or some other disease related to unsanitary conditions in a year.

France prisons are bad, but not that bad. They are overcrowd, but you still get regular meal and normal toilets ;)

But it's true that some die in the prisons :( and with the current policy of putting everyone in jail even for minor offense, they are even more overcrowd than before...

There is no real life sentence in France either. We are civilised country, we don't consider that the society has any right to halt the life of someone, be it by killing him or by sentencing until the end of his life.

25 years is a already long, long sentence. Why should he be sentenced to more ? That would stop being justice, and become vengeance.

Because he murdered someone because she disagreed with him. He shouldn't be in society.

But even then we must question if he is really French.
We can't prove he is or isn't a muslim but his name isn't French.

But even then we must question if he is really French.
We can't prove he is or isn't a muslim but his name isn't French.
He's most probably a second-generation immigrant. Maybe half-French, because of his last name, which is French.

At any rate, I don't think it matters. There are many fully white French kids in those slums too, and they don't behave any different.

They already have.

If you had kept up a little more, you'd have realised how much the focus and rhetoric has shifted as far as immigration-related policies are concerned since 9/11, and particularly since the Madrid and London Bombings.

That they don't seriously consider lunatic plans to just kill or deport millions and millions of citizens or residents can't be held against them.

http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,410102,00.html
http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,410274,00.html

From reading those, I've gathered that within Europe, cases such as in the OP will become the norm in 10 years, social law in 20 and legal law in 30.

From reading those, I've gathered that within Europe, cases such as in the OP will become the norm in 10 years, social law in 20 and legal law in 30.
Your gathering abilities are astonishing.

At any rate, there is not a single immigrant's party in Germany. It will take some time before any such party could become powerful enough to change the basic law to make such things possible.

So your time frame is most likely off by about two- or threethousand years.

Your gathering abilities are astonishing.

At any rate, there is not a single immigrant's party in Germany. It will take some time before any such party could become powerful enough to change the basic law to make such things possible.

So your time frame is most likely off by about two- or threethousand years.

You know that due to birthrates, Germany will be Germanistan by 2050?

He's most probably a second-generation immigrant. Maybe half-French, because of his last name, which is French.

At any rate, I don't think it matters. There are many fully white French kids in those slums too, and they don't behave any different.
Yeah but they have an excuse, that they are French!
Are you proposing we expel the poor to Poorland(AKA Spain)?

You know that due to birthrates, Germany will be Germanistan by 2050?
More like "Gurkey".

Turkey is a very secular state. More secular indeed than any European state or the US...all part of Atatürk's war on religion.

More like "Gurkey".

Turkey is a very secular state. More secular indeed than any European state or the US...all part of Atatürk's war on religion.

Really? I've heard that the only reason it's secular is because the government forces it on the people. They'd go pretty religious if they could.

Yeah, but that makes it look like they keep it at home. Which is fine with me. As long as they don't bring their crap here.

*roflmao

Sorry, but now you're living in France all of a sudden? You do get around a lot, don't yo?

Yeah but they have an excuse, that they are French!
Are you proposing we expel the poor to Poorland(AKA Spain)?
Spain's doing quite well actually.

*roflmao

Sorry, but now you're living in France all of a sudden? You do get around a lot, don't yo?
Yeah he lives next to a French Pastry Store, don't you?

Really? I've heard that the only reason it's secular is because the government forces it on the people. They'd go pretty religious if they could.
Well, I've been around Turks for most of my life, and none of them were particularly religious.

Obviously some would if they could, but it doesn't seem like they're any different in that respect to Germans.

Sorry, but now you're living in France all of a sudden? You do get around a lot, don't yo?

Well, since only 0.2% of French are Hindus, I assume they're not very important.

Spain's doing quite well actually.
What about Portugal?

Well, since only 0.2% of French are Hindus, I assume they're not very important.

In what way does that relate to what I asked? Unless you converted to Hinduism, that is? And even then that sentecne wouldn't make much sense..

What about Portugal?

Pfft. Wanna be Spaniards.

In what way does that relate to what I asked? Unless you converted to Hinduism, that is? And even then that sentecne wouldn't make much sense..

Well, your original post didn't make much sense at all, since we weren't talking about Hinduism.

Well, your original post didn't make much sense at all, since we weren't talking about Hinduism.

Fair enough, since I didn't mention Hinduism at all.
I quoted you saying "As long as they don't bring their crap here." As the article is about an incident in France (for all I know, half a world away from where you live) I couldn't help wondering what you meant by "here".

Fair enough, since I didn't mention Hinduism at all.
I quoted you saying "As long as they don't bring their crap here." As the article is about an incident in France (for all I know, half a world away from where you live) I couldn't help wondering what you meant by "here".

You quoted a post about Hinduism.

And "here" is the West. Although I'm starting to think that Europe isn't really part the of the West, they don't care much for their values.

Neither Le Monde (http://www.lemonde.fr/web/article/0,1-0,36-759801,0.html), nor Le Figaro (http://www.figaro.fr/france/20060408.WWW000000001_jamal_derrar_condamne_a_ans_de_reclusion_pour_la_mort_barbare_de_sohane.html), nor Libération (http://www.liberation.fr/page.php?Article=373553) speak of him being a muslim, let alone this crime having anything to do with Islam, should he be one.

I really don't know why I click on Kievan-Prussia threads. I know they're going to be racist, and I know he always fails in supporting his xenophobic claims, but it's like a train wreck. You just have to stop and look for a minute.

1. Nowhere in the article does it say any of them are muslims. Stop associating names with religion. And what relevance does his religion have anyway? He never said he was doing it in the name of religion.

2. if you lived in England, I'm sure most of you be, whilst feeling it is a shame he's not locked up for life, be very glad of the 25 years he got. By British Sentence standards (though usually quite different from sentences expected by the public, as judges are very out of date and don't seem to understand that a few years is NOT a harsh sentence for murder), even though he was found guilty of something slightly different from actual murder, it is a very high sentence.

Neither Le Monde (http://www.lemonde.fr/web/article/0,1-0,36-759801,0.html), nor Le Figaro (http://www.figaro.fr/france/20060408.WWW000000001_jamal_derrar_condamne_a_ans_de_reclusion_pour_la_mort_barbare_de_sohane.html), nor Libération (http://www.liberation.fr/page.php?Article=373553) speak of him being a muslim, let alone this crime having anything to do with Islam, should he be one.

I really don't know why I click on Kievan-Prussia threads. I know they're going to be racist, and I know he always fails in supporting his xenophobic claims, but it's like a train wreck. You just have to stop and look for a minute.

I don't think you have any say in it, Sweden's the worst. Malmoe is an immigrant city and has a large crime rate.

He's most probably a second-generation immigrant. Maybe half-French, because of his last name, which is French.

At any rate, I don't think it matters. There are many fully white French kids in those slums too, and they don't behave any different.

I've heard of English white kids being called names usually associated with black people. A person's name does not indicate, in any way shape or form, what nationality or what type of person they are.

Not that him being an immigrant or not is relevant anyway - fleeing persecution from another country doesn't equal being a constant criminal.

I don't think you have any say in it, Sweden's the worst. Malmoe is an immigrant city and has a large crime rate.

There's that train of his derailing again, failing to explain why he seems to be the only one in the world who thinks this crime has anything to do with Islam, and thinking by trying to speak about more things he is ignorant of he has managed to fool anyone into missing his continued failure. *must... avert... gaze...*

There's that train of his derailing again, failing to explain why he seems to be the only one in the world who thinks this has anything to do with Islam. *must... avert... gaze...*

If you don't see it, I won't explain it to you.

You quoted a post about Hinduism.

And "here" is the West. Although I'm starting to think that Europe isn't really part the of the West, they don't care much for their values.

Values are, by definition, issues an individual or a group of people care about. Maybe you should stop assuming that you know what Europe should be caring about, and rather take a look at what we DO care about. Just so you finally get our values straight....

I'll try this again in a few months when things have degraded more. I'm trying to see how long it's going to take people to think "Hey, this is getting pretty bad."

If you don't see it, I won't explain it to you.

Please do, I could use a good laugh right about now

Values are, by definition, issues an individual or a group of people care about. Maybe you should stop assuming that you know what Europe should be caring about, and rather take a look at what we DO care about. Just so you finally get our values straight....

So... you don't care about free speech, free expression, free press and minority rights?

If you don't see it, I won't explain it to you.

you have nothing to explain, because you have no argument. you are just making assumptions based on entirely irrelevant factors. if not, then prove it. if so, then continue to not "bother" explaining because you actually have no argument

So... you don't care about free speech, free expression, free press and minority rights?

Mine and everybody elses. :p
But somehow I don't feel that setting a girl on fire can be justified under "freedom of expression"

If you don't see it, I won't explain it to you.

That's 'cause you can't explain it. You've had page after page after page to prove not only that he is a Muslim, but that this has anything to do with Islam. France's three biggest national papers speak nothing of such a connection. You have failed miserably in supporting your claims. Going "waah, but if you won't listen to me because I can't prove my claims, I won't explain my claims to you!"

We don't want your pitiful explanation, because we know all it amounts to is your own racism and xenophobia, but we want proof of your claims. Deliver, lest we be forced to draw the most apparent conclusion: you've no idea what you're talking about, and, thus, are basically talking out of your hateful little ass.

We don't want your pitiful explanation, because we know all it amounts to is your own racism and xenophobia, but we want proof of your claims. Deliver, lest we be forced to draw the most apparent conclusion: you've no idea what you're talking about, and, thus, are basically talking out of your hateful little ass.

Fine. Fuck you. I can't wait for the islamic revolution, because you'll be first.

Fine. Fuck you. I can't wait for the islamic revolution, because you'll be first.

*lol

If that's what you want for christmas this year, you might just be in for a big disappointment...

Fine. Fuck you. I can't wait for the islamic revolution, because you'll be first.

That's not proof of your claims. That's acting like a petulant little child, when caught in a lie. The conclusion to be drawn is the one Sdaeriji drew pages ago about you being ignorant.

And I find it so funny when your ilk tries to warn me about Islam, when I'd be first if your sorry lot got to power, too.

I've searched and searched and searched, and I can find no credible article that describes Jamal as being muslim, just North African (which makes him being Muslim fairly probable). I even found the source of wiki's picture of Jamal. It doesn't even mention anything about Islam in the article. The biggest mention is in a related article where is says Il estime que l’affaire a servi à la “diabolisation des Arabo-Musulmans”.http://www.lexpress.mu/display_news_dimanche.php?news_id=62151
Which I've translated with my poor French as meaning -It is thought that the affair has been used "to villify Arab-Muslims".Maybe KP should mull over that for a while.

And I find it so funny when your ilk tries to warn me about Islam, when I'd be first if your sorry lot got to power, too.

Oh yeah? What makes you assume that?

Maybe KP should mull over that for a while.

Don't expect for a second he will, seeing as it seems to be beyond him to grasp such introspection. Remains the fact: There is no proof, whatsoever, this had anything to do with Islam, or his being a Muslim, which is itself something still not proven.

Don't expect for a second he will, seeing as it seems to be beyond him to grasp such introspection. Remains the fact: There is no proof, whatsoever, this had anything to do with Islam, or his being a Muslim, which is itself something still not proven.Meh, I needed something to show for my efforts. Maybe someone else will read the post and think 'hey, that's well thought out and reasoned' and think better of ME. It's a very self-centred post. It might have been prudent to put a 'postcount +1' in the post. *ahem*

Oh yeah? What makes you assume that?

Oh, your lot's general Nazi-like tendencies to want to eradicate those you do not like, and homosexuals don't tend to have so much worth when it comes to hateful and ignorant people. As much as we need to combat Islamic fundamentalism, we need to combat your pogromic ilk.

Oh, your lot's general Nazi-like tendencies to want to eradicate those you do not like, and homosexuals don't tend to have so much worth when it comes to hateful and ignorant people. As much as we need to combat Islamic fundamentalism, we need to combat your pogromic ilk.

Now who's being ignorant? You don't even know what I am.

How about we just ignore Kievan-Prussia?

Whilst I've made it clear in other posts that I have problems with islam, when I make statements about islam or muslims (statements rather than saying "I believe..." or "I think..."), I usually try to offer evidence when requested (if I haven't already offerred it).

As I'm sure most of you are aware, it's pointless to take heed of the ideas of anyone -Kievan-Prussia or anyone else- who can not provide any kind of evidence and just resorts to aggression when confronted against their claims. So let's just ignore Kievan-Prussia, eh? At least on this post anyway.

Don't give fuel to the racists and muslim-haters :)

Meh, I needed something to show for my efforts. Maybe someone else will read the post and think 'hey, that's well thought out and reasoned' and think better of ME. It's a very self-centred post. It might have been prudent to put a 'postcount +1' in the post. *ahem*

Oh. Well, even if I did like that it eroded KP's position further (though, it being kind of hard to realise how one can erode something without any sort of substance), I guess I missed it was aimed elsewhere.

Oh, your lot's general Nazi-like tendencies to want to eradicate those you do not like, and homosexuals don't tend to have so much worth when it comes to hateful and ignorant people. As much as we need to combat Islamic fundamentalism, we need to combat your pogromic ilk.

I was starting to side with you, but is there any need for the homosexual-bashing? Even if you for some reason believe it's a sin, it's not like homosexuals deliberately be gay to piss off God. Don't sinners deserve to be forgiven? (btw I do not believe it's a sin, I believe it's perfectly natural)

For you to say what you said earlier about Kievan-Prussia's muslim rubbish and then to bash homosexuals makes you hypocritical and is, in my opinion, lowering yourself to his/her level

Now who's being ignorant? You don't even know what I am.

I know what exactly what you are. And know exactly what will happen to collaborators such as yourself should your "buddies" come to power.

I know what exactly what you are. And know exactly what will happen to collaborators such as yourself should your "buddies" come to power.

You assume I'm a Nazi, then?

I was starting to side with you, but is there any need for the homosexual-bashing? Even if you for some reason believe it's a sin, it's not like homosexuals deliberately be gay to piss off God. Don't sinners deserve to be forgiven? (btw I do not believe it's a sin, I believe it's perfectly natural)

For you to say what you said earlier about Kievan-Prussia's muslim rubbish and then to bash homosexuals makes you hypocritical and is, in my opinion, lowering yourself to his/her level

I'm gay. I have no idea how you construed that to be gay bashing. Work on you reading comprehension.

I was starting to side with you, but is there any need for the homosexual-bashing? Even if you for some reason believe it's a sin, it's not like homosexuals deliberately be gay to piss off God. Don't sinners deserve to be forgiven? (btw I do not believe it's a sin, I believe it's perfectly natural)

For you to say what you said earlier about Kievan-Prussia's muslim rubbish and then to bash homosexuals makes you hypocritical and is, in my opinion, lowering yourself to his/her level

Fass is gay.

I'm gay. I have no idea how you construed that to be gay bashing. Work on you reading comprehension.

"and homosexuals don't tend to have so much worth when it comes to hateful and ignorant people"

I'm sorry if I misunderstood.

You assume I'm a Nazi, then?

No. I draw the conclusion that you are a racist and a xenophobe. Your racist and xenophobic buddies will not appreciate your kind after they get to power, seeing as autistics, and people with other disabilities, aren't exactly seen by them in a favourable light, despite most of them being mental themselves...

There is absolutely no link between this story and Islam, except that the victim was a muslim and the murderer had noth-african origins (I don't think he was a muslim, or at if he was one, he was a non-praticant one, like many are catholic but don't go to church and don't care about rules like "no sex before mariage").

But since it happened in suburbs that the media love to rant about, since he was "arab" at least in people's eyes, the story became huge... so huge that you speak of it even outside France. Sure, his crime is horrific, but there are many women beaten to death in France and Europe. Most of them are never spoken about. Because they are done by nice frenchmen. And remember that in many cases, alcohol played a huge role in it, something muslims don't fall to (at least in theory).

This story is very sad, but it also show how the media, and some people react to facts, how they use completly unrelated facts to make the anti-muslism and anti-arab hatred grow and grow... until when ?

"and homosexuals don't tend to have so much worth when it comes to hateful and ignorant people"

I'm sorry if I misunderstood.

I was trying to say that should KP's buddies come to power, I myself would be first in line to the death chambers, just like I would should some fanatic Muslims come to power. Hence why I find it funny that he, of all people, should warn me of them.

You assume I'm a Nazi, then?

In the traditional sense, perhaps not. But your idiotic hate-mongering and twisting if facts until they resemble nothing that they started out as is highly amusing and may point towards Nazi-like feelings.

I mean, you are a poster who first claimed to go around beating up Muslim youths in a gang, then proceeded to post false norwegian articles about laws against or for Muslims, all the while claiming that Isam will destroy Europe. Well, at least you've changed tactics slightly, but you're still as insane as always.

This story is very sad, but it also show how the media, and some people react to facts, how they use completly unrelated facts to make the anti-muslism and anti-arab hatred grow and grow... until when ?

The thing is, as shown, not even the media have alluded to this having anything to do with Islam. Only KP.

The thing is, as shown, not even the media have alluded to this having anything to do with Islam. Only KP.

Yeah, he doesn that a lot. You might remember his false Norwegian articles that claimed Europe was about to fall to Muslims, or were appeasing them or somesuch rot. He's a xenophobe racist who thinks Muslims will destroy the world.

Yeah, he doesn that a lot. You might remember his false Norwegian articles that claimed Europe was about to fall to Muslims, or were appeasing them or somesuch rot. He's a xenophobe racist who thinks Muslims will destroy the world.

Yup, KP in a nutshell right there.

I was trying to say that should KP's buddies come to power, I myself would be first in line to the death chambers, just like I would should some fanatic Muslims come to power. Hence why I find it funny that he, of all people, should warn me of them.

If my "buddies" came to power, they wouldn't know what to do with it. Most of my friends are apolitical. If I came to power, I wouldn't care about gays. I'd probably fund a little research to find out what causes it and such, and who knows, when embryo screening comes around, it may be one of the factors that can be modified, at the parent's discretion. Other than that, I don't care about homosexual.

If my "buddies" came to power, they wouldn't know what to do with it. Most of my friends are apolitical. If I came to power, I wouldn't care about gays. I'd probably fund a little research to find out what causes it and such, and who knows, when embryo screening comes around, it may be one of the factors that can be modified, at the parent's discretion. Other than that, I don't care about homosexual.
So you'd only want to eradicate muslims? That makesit all better I guess.

No. I draw the conclusion that you are a racist and a xenophobe. Your racist and xenophobic buddies will not appreciate your kind after they get to power, seeing as autistics, and people with other disabilities, aren't exactly seen by them in a favourable light, despite most of them being mental themselves...

Oh please. I don't think they'd much bother with Aspergians. I'm not even visibly different, nor do many people know that I'm Aspergian.

If my "buddies" came to power, they wouldn't know what to do with it. Most of my friends are apolitical. If I came to power, I wouldn't care about gays. I'd probably fund a little research to find out what causes it and such, and who knows, when embryo screening comes around, it may be one of the factors that can be modified, at the parent's discretion. Other than that, I don't care about homosexual.

What 'causes' it? It isn't a disease or a genetic abomination you damned fool.

So you'd only want to eradicate muslims? That makesit all better I guess.

No. I want to crush it's political and social influence in the West, make an example of those who commit crime in it's name (and any other religion while I'm at it) and hopefully force it's reform in the West.

What 'causes' it? It isn't a disease or a genetic abomination you damned fool.

I don't bloody know, would I want to fund research on it if I knew?

If my "buddies" came to power, they wouldn't know what to do with it. Most of my friends are apolitical. If I came to power, I wouldn't care about gays. I'd probably fund a little research to find out what causes it and such, and who knows, when embryo screening comes around, it may be one of the factors that can be modified, at the parent's discretion. Other than that, I don't care about homosexual.

Yeah, right. The racists and xenophobes you'd work with to get to power would never try to eradicate gays. Nuhuh, no sirry! And eugenics is such a nice and cosy idea! :rolleyes:

Nevertheless, that's supposed to make me somehow care less about the other people you'd send to death camps? See, you're no better than the fundamentalist Muslims. You need to be combated as much as they, seeing as you are basically the same, but you just direct your hatred on different targets.

Yeah, right. The racists and xenophobes you'd work with to get to power would never try to eradicate gay. Nuhuh, no sirry! :rolleyes:

Nevertheless, that's supposed to make me somehow care less about the other people you'd send to death camps? See, you're no better than the fundamentalist Muslims. You need to be combated as much as they, seeing as you are basically the same, but you just direct your hatred on different targets.

I have no desire to send anybody to death camps. And I wouldn't work with Nazis and such, they're idiots.

I don't bloody know, would I want to fund research on it if I knew?

Why would you want to research it? There's no need to 'cure' it, there's nothing wrong with being gay.

Why would you want to research it? There's no need to 'cure' it, there's nothing wrong with being gay.

Like I said, it's to the parent's discretion how they'd want to handle it. And we'd research it for the same reason we research the universe's origins: we wanna know why.

Every religion has nutters. islam just has quite a bit more. Who are a little bit more nutty.
*cough* Inquisition
*cough* Crusades

Like I said, it's to the parent's discretion how they'd want to handle it. And we'd research it for the same reason we research the universe's origins: we wanna know why.

I see. So, you want eugenics as well as xenophobia and racism? Any more offensive, outdated morals you have that you'd like to share?

*cough* Inquisition
*cough* Crusades

Those were hundreds of years ago.

I see. So, you want eugenics as well as xenophobia and racism? Any more offensive, outdated morals you have that you'd like to share?

I see embryo screening as inevitable. When people can scan for undesirable traits and genetic disorders, they will.

I have no desire to send anybody to death camps. And I wouldn't work with Nazis and such, they're idiots.

They're big on racism, xenophobia and eugenics. Just like you. Does that make you an idiot, too? Well, you know what I think.

They're big on racism, xenophobia and eugenics. Just like you. Does that make you an idiot, too? Well, you know what I think.

I don't really think I've said anything racist. Xenophobic, maybe, but not particularly racist. Eugenics isn't something I think is particularly spectacular, in fact, it's a little scary (I've seen that movie Gattaca... I don't wanna be obsolete!), but it's probably inevitable.

I don't really think I've said anything racist. Xenophobic, maybe, but not particularly racist. Eugenics isn't something I think is particularly spectacular, in fact, it's a little scary (I've seen that movie Gattaca... I don't wanna be obsolete!), but it's probably inevitable.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?sourceid=Mozilla-search&va=backtracking

Those were hundreds of years ago.
*cough* Gay bashings
*cough* Iraq

http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?sourceid=Mozilla-search&va=backtracking

Remind me.

*cough* Gay bashings
*cough* Iraq

Gay bashings I'm not familiar with. Sound like isolated incidents.

And I don't think Iraq was a Christian thing. Bush is PRESIDENT; give him a little credit.

What? You want me to research things for you? I could be completely wrong, but I'm not desperate enough to substantiate anything I have said. Feel free to do the research. Then you can tell me if I'm right or not.


That's wrong. Follow the maxim 'he who asserts must prove'. If you assert something to be true and then someone asks for a source or proof, then it is beholden on you to provide said source or proof. Otherwise withdraw your comments as being unsubstantiated.

You assume I'm a Nazi, then?

The irony of your indignation with someone assuming something about you is highly amusing.

Gay bashings I'm not familiar with. Sound like isolated incidents.

And I don't think Iraq was a Christian thing. Bush is PRESIDENT; give him a little credit.
Nope. Ask any police officer and they'll tell you it's an impedmic across the western world in the past months. In Brisbane alone we've seen a surge of homophobia based assaults in the past month, the offenders for which have been linked to rightwing chrisitians.

Name me an atheist or muslim who was jumping up and down for it. Being President is a justification for me to give him a break, it's a reason to hold him accountable

Name me an atheist or muslim who was jumping up and down for it. Being President is a justification for me to give him a break, it's a reason to hold him accountable

Name me a Christian who was. Here, many Christians are fiercely against the war.

The irony of your indignation with someone assuming something about you is highly amusing.

I'm not particularly indignant about it. But I find it hypocritical that he's against assumptions about everybody else, but assumes something of me.

Prussia never had Austria in it. They were bitter rivals. Stooge.

Not really. I didn't have to make any factual connections. Just like you didn't. Now you demand that I obey facts? Hypocrite.

Name me a Christian who was. Here, many Christians are fiercely against the war.
George W Bush, I think he's your President.

They're generally against for some very sinister reasons

George W Bush, I think he's your President.

They're generally against for some very sinister reasons

Nope. I'm from Australia.

Not really. I didn't have to make any factual connections. Just like you didn't. Now you demand that I obey facts? Hypocrite.
Wait... are you claiming you do not need to make any factual connections? Now, now do you realise why the left just laughs at you?

Nope. I'm from Australia.
Then you may know him as America's President. Here's another example, our Minister of Health Tony Abbott

I'm not particularly indignant about it. But I find it hypocritical that he's against assumptions about everybody else, but assumes something of me.

That's the point. We're being intentionally hypocritical to illustrate a point. But you still don't seem to get it.

That's the point. We're being intentionally hypocritical to illustrate a point. But you still don't seem to get it.

I get it. It's just not a very good point. It's like killing a murdering sociopath to illustrate that murdering isn't pleasant or good (no, that wasn't a jab at the American legal system).

Then you may know him as America's President. Here's another example, our Minister of Health Tony Abbott

Yeah, he's a dick.

I get it. It's just not a very good point. It's like killing a murdering sociopath to illustrate that murdering isn't pleasant or good (no, that wasn't a jab at the American legal system).

I'm still waiting for proof he's Muslim besides your own opinion, you Nazi.

I'm still waiting for proof he's Muslim besides your own opinion, you Nazi.

Listen, evidences points to him being muslim. Killed a muslim, was part of a gang, lived in an enclave (I think), is from Africa, has a Middle Eastern name.

Listen, evidences points to him being muslim. Killed a muslim, was part of a gang, lived in an enclave (I think), is from Africa, has a Middle Eastern name.

And evidence points to you being a Nazi.

And evidence points to you being a Nazi.

You must be a hell of a debater.

So the OP has a strange notion that a single crime perpetrated by someone who may be Muslim coupled with his expert analysis of population trends etc leading to the assertion that a) this is normal behaviour for all Muslims and b) that this shall become normal behaviour in society as a whole because the expanding Muslim population shall make it so.

Now, leaving aside a cogent discourse on the statistical significance of a sample population of one, I shall instead put on my tin foil hat and draw a synonymous scenario.

I shall start with a single crime here (http://www.borderlandnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060406/NEWS/60406004/1001) about a soldier killing his family. I shall then take expert notice of recent legislation to increase the size of the military and extrapolate that this shall continue indefinitely until such time as the military outnumbers civillians. I shall have at my fingertips links to other incidents around the world where soldiers have committed crimes to bolster my argument.


I shall then draw and present the inescapable conclusion that the US is guaranteed to become a military junta wherin soldiers regularly kill their families.

Finally, I shall attach an arbitrary date of .... ohhh... 2042 when this shall become true.


Hey! Drawing moronic conclusions from crappy data is FUN!!

You must be a hell of a debater.

You've still to provide anything even resembling proof. You've offered heresay and circumstance. The burden of proof falls upon the accuser. Either prove to me in a legitimate manner that this guy is Muslim, or admit you're wrong.

He's most probably a second-generation immigrant. Maybe half-French, because of his last name, which is French.

At any rate, I don't think it matters. There are many fully white French kids in those slums too, and they don't behave any different.

Could you please explain what by this you mean?

Listen, evidences points to him being muslim. Killed a muslim, was part of a gang, lived in an enclave (I think), is from Africa, has a Middle Eastern name.

How the fuck is that "evidence"? He KILLED a muslim. Non-muslims have killed muslims, usually for reasons like "they're all terrorists". How many muslims do you thin Bush killed in the "war on terror"? and don't tell me Bush is a muslim

He was part of a agang. So are plenty of people in Salford or the Bronx, that don't mean they're muslims.

He is from Africa. What a racist thing to say - everyone from Africa must be muslim. There are many different religions in Africa, including christianity.

He has a Middle Eastern name. So do lots of people. Like I said, some people name their kids names usually associated with other skin colours or nationalities. A person's name is no indicication of their religion or anything else.

Looks like we were right, you have no argument. You just attempted one, and it wasn't there - it was no argument at all, just biased statements based on irrelevant things.

He could be a Jew who just happens to lead a Muslim Gang for tax reasons.
You just won at everything. I'd retire, if I were you.

France prisons are bad, but not that bad. They are overcrowd, but you still get regular meal and normal toilets

But it's true that some die in the prisons and with the current policy of putting everyone in jail even for minor offense, they are even more overcrowd than before...

Ok, that sounds more reasonable. I was certain someone would have a more informed opinion than myself. Thank you.

That's wrong. Follow the maxim 'he who asserts must prove'. If you assert something to be true and then someone asks for a source or proof, then it is beholden on you to provide said source or proof. Otherwise withdraw your comments as being unsubstantiated.
I completely agree with you. The difference in this case is that I was not asserting anything to be true. I was expressing my impressions of the French prison system. Therefore, it is not beholden on me to provide a source at all. What it comes down to is that everyone sets their own standards for what is true and what isn't. It's not for me to decide what is true for you. That you have to do for yourself. Even if I did provide sources, you would still be free to accept or reject them based on your opinion of the validity of the source.

I suppose when you get down to it, there are two reasons people will believe something is true: they either want to believe it's true, or they are afraid it is true. (Thank you Terry Goodkind)

You know that due to birthrates, Germany will be Germanistan by 2050?

Stans of the world, UNITE!

Stans of the world, UNITE!The governments or the people? The governments can rot in hell for all I care... except maybe the the Kazahk and the Kirgiz ones... they could be alright... but I'm dubious. The people on the other hand are great... though some of them can be lewd fat gits...but otherwise great.
*misses the familiy he lived with in Bukhara* :(

just like it is possible he was a Jew.
Except she was the former girlfriend of someone in the gang, so that doesn't fly.

Because he murdered someone because she disagreed with him. He shouldn't be in society.
Actually, he murdered someone because he disagreed with her former boyfriend.

They should Fry the sucker!

Amazing how people in here go out of their way claiming the purp is not a muslim. Eventhough the chances of him not beeing one is practicly zero.

Amazing how people in here go out of their way claiming the purp is not a muslim. Eventhough the chances of him not beeing one is practicly zero.

It shouldn't be that hard to prove then, should it?

And even if you manage to, there is still no evidence that this has anything to do with Islam. Unless you want to claim that all crimes committed by Christians have something to do with Christianity?

Amazing how people in here go out of their way claiming the purp is not a muslim. Eventhough the chances of him not beeing one is practicly zero.
Amazing how little attention we've given to attacking the French in this thread.

Amazing how little attention we've given to attacking the French in this thread.

Why would we?

They should Fry the sucker!

:rolleyes:

http://www.hrea.org/feature-events/coe-protocol-13.html

Why would we?
I just miss it, I guess. It was much more amusing to argue about.

I just miss it, I guess. It was much more amusing to argue about.

it's also more of a challenge. french taunting can be so hard on the nerves...
*run away! run away!*

Amazing how people in here go out of their way claiming the purp is not a muslim. Eventhough the chances of him not beeing one is practicly zero.

Until hard evidence is provided that he is one, then we shall continue to claim that he is not. Until such evidence comes along, then we shan't give in to KPs idiotic xenophobic and racist presumptions.

People who are really concerned about the ways Muslim women are abused, don't talk this way. These kinds of ideas are presented out of fear and ignorance.

Amazing how people in here go out of their way claiming the purp is not a muslim. Eventhough the chances of him not beeing one is practicly zero.

I never went "out of my way".

I just responded to a response that was essentially rubbish (as proved by the fact taht nobody, inlcuding you, has shown evidence on here back it up). Yes, some bad things are committed by muslims - but that doesn't excuse muslim-bashing just for the sake of it.

And as I made clear in other posts, I have a problem with islam and what it seems to teach. But I do not go around saying that people who commit crimes "must be muslim" without providing ANY (as in ANY, as in EVEN THE SLIGHTEST SCRAP, as in EVEN A TINY BIT) of evidence, as has been done on this thread. And when I do say something negative about islam, I usually back it up when asked (or even before being asked sometimes) - something you and KP can not POSSIBLY do, as you have no evidence. None whatsoever. Zilch. I'm not going to ask you to prove me wrong, because you've had plenty of chances and have proved you can not prove me (or anyone else who disagrees with your muslim-bashing statements) wrong.

People who are really concerned about the ways Muslim women are abused, don't talk this way. These kinds of ideas are presented out of fear and ignorance.

I have to disgree with you there. There have been many reports of human rights abuses on women in muslim countries, because they are seen as substandard, and because the koran tells men taht they are "maintainers of women" (Sura 4:34, "The Women")

I have to disgree with you there. There have been many reports of human rights abuses on women in muslim countries, because they are seen as substandard, and because the koran tells men taht they are "maintainers of women" (Sura 4:34, "The Women")
"And I find more bitter than death the woman, whose heart is snares and nets, and her hands as bands: whoso pleaseth God shall escape from her; but the sinner shall be taken by her." Ecclesiastes 7:26, from the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament)

It is not the fault of the Koran or the Bible that men mistreat women. Yes, in many countries women of the Muslim faith are abused.

Those who are truly concerned should take a look at this site:
http://www.rawa.org/

Could you please explain what by this you mean?
No. :p ;)

Amazing how people in here go out of their way claiming the purp is not a muslim. Eventhough the chances of him not beeing one is practicly zero.

If the chances of him not being a Muslim are practically zero, then you should easily be able to prove he is. I await your proof, since it's so obvious.

If the chances of him not being a Muslim are practically zero, then you should easily be able to prove he is. I await your proof, since it's so obvious.

It's not our fault that everybody's too PC to mention it. If the media had their way, the article would be "A human is on trial for killing another human. They're both human. That is all."

It's not our fault that everybody's too PC to mention it. If the media had their way, the article would be "A human is on trial for killing another human. They're both human. That is all."

The reason no one is mentioning it is because it's irrelevant to the case, as it was a gang murder, not a religious one.

I continue to await some proof that he is oh so obviously Muslim.

It's not our fault that everybody's too PC to mention it. If the media had their way, the article would be "A human is on trial for killing another human. They're both human. That is all."

Ahh, I see. So, with no evidence to support your idiotic statement, you'l just attack 'PC Culture' instead. Yeah...nice try.

It's probable that he was Moslem. So what? What matters is that he, arbitrarilly and with pre-meditation, killed someone for no good reason (the only good reason being self-defense) in a horrendous fashion. Who cares what his religion is - he deserves death.

It's probable that he was Moslem.
No more than my mother is Christian (she was confirmed and has never seen a church from the inside since).

Who cares what his religion is - he deserves death.
"Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety. Even the wise cannot see all ends."

So, when do you think that Europe is going to realise that they'll soon be overrun by these "problems?"

I guess until they "come up" with a "final solution" to the "Muslim problem," eh?

You really reach a low point with this one. Some asshole sicko burns someone to death. Do you blame him? Oh no. No, you blame the Koran. You blame Islam. You blame every Muslim on the planet. You blame everyone, it seems EXCEPT him. Just because you have a compulsive need to justify your Muslim-hating.

Now didn't you have depression or something? Weren't you considering suicide? Or at least maybe shutting up with your bigoted bullshit? On with it.

"Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety. Even the wise cannot see all ends."[/QUOTE]

I don't disagree. I just saw the argument getting away from the main point, which was what he did. His religion is irrelevant. He essentially tortured a girl to death, this isn't a religious act, it's sociopathic.