NationStates Jolt Archive

So, what do you think about the Ultimatuim given to Northern Ireland?

If they don't get their act together by November 24th than Ireland gets a huge say in what happens their.

I myself like it because I think that Northern Ireland should be returned to the Republic as peacefully as possible and this put the current head of NI between a rock and a hard place.

If they don't get their act together by November 24th then Ireland gets a huge say in what happens there.


Do you know exactly what this entails?

Southern ireland should be returned to the United Kingdom.

The fact is that Northern Ireland is currently governed by decree by ministers who are unelected by the NI populace, and who have no accountability to the NI populace.

Northern Ireland is a dictatorship run by the Labour Party. There are no two ways about it.

The ruling party doesn't stand in elections here, and they rule by decree. If that's not a dictatorship, I don't know what is.

As far as I'm concerned, we need to normalise politics, and get the assembly up and running as soon as possible.

An ultimatem, while looking good for the cameras, will achieve neither.

The only way to normalise politics is to get the main UK parties standing here every single election, and campaigning hard; detracting from the power of the main NI parties to impose outdated sectarian politics upon the populace.

The only way to get the assembly up and running is to give people time, and to eliminate the main opposing parties.

Not by giving ultimatems.



My main problem is that I really love Northern Ireland. The people are brilliant, so friendly, the scenery is astounding, the cities and towns are beautiful (for the most part...), and it's just a very very nice place to be. So I don't like seeing us fucked about.

Southern ireland should be returned to the United Kingdom.
...there's no such thing as Southern Ireland.

Southern ireland should be returned to the United Kingdom.

Interesting. And why should Ireland not be independent?

I myself like it because I think that Northern Ireland should be returned to the Republic as peacefully as possible and this put the current head of NI between a rock and a hard place.

1. Northern Ireland never belonged to the Republic, and so talk about 'returning' it is bullshit. 'Uniting' it, possibly, but 'returning' it, no.

2. Uniting Northern Ireland with Eire is all very well, but what you seem to be suggesting is some mechanism to ride roughshod over the democratically expressed will of the Northern Ireland populace - yes or no?

3. The current head of NI is Westminster, so are they placing themselves between a rock and a hard place?

It hasn't been Eire since the fifties. I think you mean "The Republic of Ireland" ;)

It hasn't been Eire since the fifties. I think you mean "The Republic of Ireland" ;)
"Republic of Ireland" is the official descriptive title taken from the "Republic of Ireland Act" of 1948.

The official name of the state is "Éire, or, in the English language, Ireland". Don't argue with me, argue with Article 4 of Bunreacht na hEireann.

The official name of the state is "Éire, or, in the English language, Ireland". Don't argue with me, argue with Article 4 of Bunreacht na hEireann.

Damn you article four of Bunreacht na hEireann!

*shakes fist at sky*

"Republic of Ireland" is the official descriptive title taken from the "Republic of Ireland Act" of 1948.

The official name of the state is "Éire, or, in the English language, Ireland". Don't argue with me, argue with Article 4 of Bunreacht na hEireann.

*sighs* Well that's me proved wrong. Sorry about me being so snooty about it!

Anyway, I reckon that there should be a referendum to decide this, one in Northern Ireland to see if they want to join, one in Éire/The Republic of Ireland to see if the want to have NI as a part of them.

If they both turn up yes, then they might as well join up, if even one comes up no then they should stay seperate.

Damn you article four of Bunreacht na hEireann!

*shakes fist at sky*
Yeah, I can't even pronounce the last three words on that post.

Take that article four of Bunreacht na hEireann!

*sighs* Well that's me proved wrong. Sorry about me being so snooty about it!

Anyway, I reckon that there should be a referendum to decide this, one in Northern Ireland to see if they want to join, one in Éire/The Republic of Ireland to see if the want to have NI as a part of them.

If they both turn up yes, then they might as well join up, if even one comes up no then they should stay seperate.

It came up "no" in NI in 1973, and in 1998 the republic, as a result of a referendum, dropped its claim over NI.

So that's both saying 'no' in one form or another....

And if you look at the results from opinion polls (in particular the NI Life and Times Survey (http://www.ark.ac.uk/nilt/2004/Political_Attitudes/NIRELAND.html), one of the better ones) you will find that remaining in the UK is the wish of some 59% of the population (including 24% of Catholics)

Yeah, I can't even pronounce the last three words on that post.

Take that article four of Bunreacht na hEireann!

*Remember Irish classes*

Bun-Rocked Nah Hair-in.

*Remember Irish classes*

Bun-Rocked Nah Hair-in.
*Never took an Irish class*

*Damn Irish language*

Bun-Rocked Nah Hair-in.

Sorted.

Don't argue with me, argue with Article 4 of Bunreacht na hEireann.

There is something strangely and immensely satisfying about being able to cite the Bunreacht na hÉireann in order to prove your point...

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10571383&postcount=62

Yes...a codified constitution can be handy at times.

2. Uniting Northern Ireland with Eire is all very well, but what you seem to be suggesting is some mechanism to ride roughshod over the democratically expressed will of the Northern Ireland populace - yes or no?
The democratically expressed will of the Northern Ireland populace is, with a slight generalisation, the cause of the current crisis. If people didn't vote for Sinn Fein or the DUP, it wouldn't be a problem, but the public has made their declaration.

I, personally, am partly of the view that we have made our bed and should therefore lie in it. However, it's true that some sort of localised government is vastly important. And yet, since the little working class communities are so stubborn in their sectarian leanings, any solution would therefore involve bypassing the mandate of the masses.

Stick an SDLP/UUP coalition in a makeshift cabinet under Hain until the two rowdier parties can settle down, I reckon.

Stick an SDLP/UUP coalition in a makeshift cabinet under Hain until the two rowdier parties can settle down, I reckon.

Yes, excluding the parties with the largest mandates from power is sure to bring about democratic resolution...

It might be seen as an attempt to "bump off" Dr Paisley by means of induced apoplectic (apope-lectic?) rage.

1. Northern Ireland never belonged to the Republic, and so talk about 'returning' it is bullshit. 'Uniting' it, possibly, but 'returning' it, no.

Well, that and the fact that a lot of 'Southerners' really don't give two sh*ts about 'reunification'.

A newer generation sees the island as two seperate entities- two cultures, two peoples, two states. I don't see a problem with that to be honest.

Given that most of the 'We're the same!' bull being spouted is based purely on Catholicism- and in an increasingly young and foreign population in the South, that binding tie is irrelevant and essentially non existent.

I'm all for a seperate and independent Northern Irish state--- just be a nice neighbour and join the godamn Euro! :D

There is something strangely and immensely satisfying about being able to cite the Bunreacht na hÉireann in order to prove your point...How true. (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10491857&postcount=7)

Overall, personally speaking, I pretty much don't care whether we are governed by Britain or Ireland. I've lived a pretty normal life under British rule, so don't see them as the big bad oppressors. By the same token, I can't see a lot of every day things changing (except the currency I suppose) were we governed by Ireland.

But I think Psychotic Mongooses is right; many people in the Republic are largely ambivalent about the future of NI, at least in my experience. Some are even against unification.

How true. (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10491857&postcount=7)

Overall, personally speaking, I pretty much don't care whether we are governed by Britain or Ireland. I've lived a pretty normal life under British rule, so don't see them as the big bad oppressors. By the same token, I can't see a lot of every day things changing (except the currency I suppose) were we governed by Ireland.

But I think Psychotic Mongooses is right; many people in the Republic are largely ambivalent about the future of NI, at least in my experience. Some are even against unification.

The oppression thing wasn't even a thought, I just personally beleive that the old IRA shouldn't have signed the first peace treaty.

Yes, excluding the parties with the largest mandates from power is sure to bring about democratic resolution...
Perhaps you missed my point? Democratic Resolution of conflict is impossible when the people want the two sides to keep fighting; which, as far as I can tell, is what a vote trend for the Feiners and DUP amounts to.

Given the choice between the two, I'd rather have the Resolution of conflict part than the Democracy part.