NationStates Jolt Archive

What do we do in U.S. with people who use their homes or businesses for illegal purposes such as illegal drug sales, prostitution, stolen goods, etc? We (the government) confiscate their property and their financial assets. People and businesses that engage in the use of illegal immigrants for labor should be treated the same as any other felon and have their property and assets confiscated by the government. The sale of these properties and assets would be used to fund the enforcement of our existing immigration laws.
Being a benevolent person I would recommend prison terms equal to the amount of time these felons have engaged in this illegal practice. Possibly, in the case of good behavior, they could be allowed to begin again and be allowed to work at their previous businesses at the same wages and with the same living conditions as those to whom they so graciously gave an opportunity.

I believe you mean immigration.

Emigration= Leaving a country.
Immigration= Entering a country.

I believe you mean immigration.

Emigration= Leaving a country.
Immigration= Entering a country.

Oh well--I guess that grammatical error nullified the thread. But thank you for the correction.

Being a benevolent person I would recommend prison terms equal to the amount of time these felons have engaged in this illegal practice. Possibly, in the case of good behavior, they could be allowed to begin again and be allowed to work at their previous businesses at the same wages and with the same living conditions as those to whom they so graciously gave an opportunity.Its War.. raging at the US Congress.. Senators are putting their political careers on the Line.. Its take-no-prisoners stuff (I love it)

a Felony you say?

The war is not over yet.. The Minutemen Legislators have yet to win anything at all.. You are declaring victory ahead of time..

They say.. It is not over until the Fat Lady sings..
Listen.. listen carefuly.. Its the sound of defeat.

Its War.. raging at the US Congress.. Senators are putting their political careers on the Line.. Its take-no-prisoners stuff (I love it)

a Felony you say?

The war is not over yet.. The Minutemen Legislators have yet to win anything at all.. You are declaring victory ahead of time..

They say.. It is Net over until Fat lady sings..
Listen.. listen carefuly.. Its the sound of defeat.

I believe Shlarg is referring to the people that employ illegals. While I don't know if knowingly employing illegals is a felony, I'm pretty sure it's a crime.

I believe Shlarg is referring to the people that employ illegals.

This is indeed what I was referring to. Again I apologize for my poor writing skills.

I believe Shlarg is referring to the people that employ illegals. Its the same battle.. any legislation targeting the people who employs and/or help the Latinos(and other Immigrants).. will ultimately hurt all migrants..

Its the same battle.. any legislation targeting the people who employs and/or help the Latinos(and other Immigrants).. will ultimately hurt all migrants..

U.S. citizens and government have been irresponsible by ignoring this problem for decades. It is now going to be VERY painful to fix. But fix it we must.

Meh. 2 ways to fix it.

#1 Enforce current law... but that would be "racist" so I propose:

#2 Making US/Mexican Immigration Law word for word IDENTICAL to Mexican Immigration law... and enforce it with the same rigor the Mexicans do.

Fair is fair, after all.

U.S. citizens and government have been irresponsible by ignoring this problem for decades. It is now going to be VERY painful to fix. But fix it we must.What you are hoping for.. is going to be Painful (first and Foremost) for the migrants and their families.

But.. (like I said) my bet is that your side will be defeated..

#2 Making US/Mexican Immigration Law word for word IDENTICAL to Mexican Immigration law... and enforce it with the same rigor the Mexicans do.

Fair is fair, after all.Yup.. That would be 100% fair.

Meh. 2 ways to fix it.

#1 Enforce current law... but that would be "racist" so I propose:

#2 Making US/Mexican Immigration Law word for word IDENTICAL to Mexican Immigration law... and enforce it with the same rigor the Mexicans do.

Fair is fair, after all.

How rigorously does the Mexican government prevent U.S. illegal immigrants from crossing over?

I wasn't aware that their was a large amount of that, The Day After Tommorow not withstanding.

What you are hoping for.. is going to be Painful (first and Foremost) for the migrants and their families.

But.. (like I said) my bet is that your side will be defeated..


Oh yes. I agree with you. Even though polls show an overwhelming majority of U.S. citizens want the immigration laws enforced, Congress is ignoring us because the majority of them(congress) have reaped/are reaping huge profits and have too much to lose.
And on a personal note, this is not a matter of race to me. I don't care if they're illegal immigrants from south, east,west or north and what their ethnicity is. I am TRULY sorry that our greed has put us in the position we're in now. I just don't see a humane way out of this. Maybe someone will come up with a workable solution. If they do congress will ignore it anyway.

Oh yes. I agree with you. Even though polls show an overwhelming majority of U.S. citizens want the immigration laws enforced....the mass protesters are not fighting against the Current Laws.. They are fighting against changing the Laws.. (Changes almost approved by Congress)

things like:
#1 was not a Felony <> Would become Felony.
#2 Employers would get prison sentences.
#3 Charitable Orgs would get tagged/punished as Criminals..

If the end result is Status-Quo.. It would mean the Minutemen Legislators lose.. and (from were I am sitting) I can see them biting the dust.

How rigorously does the Mexican government prevent U.S. illegal immigrants from crossing over? Very. They will throw your ass in jail for even THINKING about working without documentation, fees, permits, Mexican bank accounts with US dollars on deposit, etc.
I wasn't aware that their was a large amount of that, The Day After Tommorow not withstanding.
Corporate Visa employees not ithstanding, not much. It's mostly retirees living in resort towns... and they are forbidden by law to work for gain. All they are allowed to do is spend Dollars.

Very. They will throw your ass in jail for even THINKING about working without documentation, fees, permits, Mexican bank accounts with US dollars on deposit, etc.

Corporate Visa employees not ithstanding, not much. It's mostly retirees living in resort towns... and they are forbidden by law to work for gain. All they are allowed to do is spend Dollars.

not to mention the treatment of real political refugees/illegals from south of mexicos borders.

they are treated worse then dirt,jailed,raped,extorted...etc.

so if the us was to mimic mexican immigration policies...i would not want to be a mexican in the us of a.

for the doubters....look up mexico's policies...do your own research

we are quite humane and decent in our treatment of ILLEGAL people here,about a million times better then the federales are in mexico.

but we are bad for wanting it to be somewhat controlled?

and screw the fat cat biz asshats getting rich off cheap labor.

Very. They will throw your ass in jail for even THINKING about working without documentation, fees, permits, Mexican bank accounts with US dollars on deposit, etc.have you ever lived in mexico?

have you ever lived in mexico?
No. Don't need to though. I've talked to retirees.

Try looking at the law. http://www.mexperience.com/liveandwork/immigration.htm

Retirees
If you are over 50 years of age, and want to engage in "non remunerative activities" and you are receiving funds from abroad (from a pension or other investments or fixed income) at least to the value of 400 times the daily minimum daily wage per month and a further 200 times daily minimum wage per month for each dependent (e.g. spouse, children) then you can apply for a Retiree Immigration Permit. Read more about retirement in Mexico on Mexperience.

Investors
You can receive an immigration permit if you are willing to invest your capital in Mexico. You investment can be directed at industry or services, and must equal a minimum of 40,000 times the minimum daily wage in Mexico City.

Professionals
If you are a qualified professional, you can have your certificates validated by the Mexican Consulate and apply for an immigration permit to live in Mexico. You must be sponsored by a company who must satisfy the authorities that you are essential to their operative requirements.

Scientists & Technicians
If you are involved in science, or are a qualified technician, whether commercially or for education, you can apply for an immigration permit in Mexico. You may need to be invited by one of the established scientific or technical organizations in Mexico.

Artists and Sportspeople
These people can apply for an immigration permit. Each case is considered individually and entry is at the Interior Ministry's discretion.

Hey, where's the Gardners, Housekeepers, Migrant Farm Labor, Drywallers and Nuclear Power Plant Employees?

Can I be granted Mexican Citizenship?

Acquiring Mexican Citizenship is an involved process, and it is not easy to do. As a minimum, you must have been living in Mexico for 5 years (2 years under special circumstances) and have resident status. Marriage to a Mexican national may allow Citizenship without the residency requirement. For matters concerning the acquisition of Mexican Citizenship, seek professional advice and contact your local Mexican Consulate.


Immigrant, Active: - i.e. you do want to acquire permanent residency in Mexico AND work there:

You will need to satisfy the requirements for entry (e.g. professional, sponsored by a company, etc), or be able and prepared to invest at least 40,000 times the minimum daily wage in Mexico City.

Works for me. I wonder how racist it would be to make this US policy?

No. Don't need to though. thats what I tough..

I went with a $20 tourist visa.. And took a Job in TJ (wanted to perfect my Spanish).. there is no control whatsoever.. they do not ask you for a work permit to give you a job.. But If you really feel the need to have some official paper..you can always go to the INM delegacion.. and buy an official declaratoria(like a green Card) for $270, a waste of money IMO.. the Employers don't even know how that paper looks like.. they never seen one.

http://travel.state.gov/travel/tips/regional/regional_1174.html

Helpful tips to avoid Jail when visiting or immigrating to Mexico...

A Guide to Entry and Exit Regulations

Getting Into Mexico

The Government of Mexico requires that all U.S. citizens present proof of citizenship and photo identification for entry into Mexico. While U.S. citizenship documents such as a certified copy of a U.S. birth certificate, a Naturalization Certificate, a Consular Report of Birth Abroad, or a Certificate of Citizenship are acceptable, the U.S. Embassy recommends traveling with a valid U.S. passport to avoid delays or misunderstandings. U.S. citizens have encountered difficulty boarding onward flights in Mexico without a passport. U.S. citizens boarding flights to Mexico should be prepared to present one of these documents as proof of U.S. citizenship, along with photo identification. Driver's permits, voter registration cards, affidavits and similar documents are not sufficient to prove citizenship for readmission into the United States.

Tourist Cards

U.S. citizens do not require a visa or a tourist card for tourist stays of 72 hours or less within “the border zone,” defined as an area between 20 to 30 kilometers of the border with the U.S., depending on the location. U.S. citizens traveling as tourists beyond the border zone or entering Mexico by air must pay a fee to obtain a tourist card, also known as an FM-T, available from Mexican consulates, Mexican border crossing points, Mexican tourism offices, airports within the border zone and most airlines serving Mexico. The fee for the tourist card is generally included in the price of a plane ticket for travelers arriving by air.

The tourist card is issued upon presentation of proof of citizenship, such as a U.S. passport or a U.S. birth certificate, plus a photo I.D., such as a driver's license. Tourist cards are issued for up to 90 days with a single entry, or if you present proof of sufficient funds, for 180 days with multiple entries.

Upon entering Mexico, retain and safeguard the traveler's copy of your tourist card so you may surrender it to Mexican immigration when you depart. You must leave Mexico before your tourist card expires or you are subject to a fine. A tourist card for less than 180 days may be revalidated in Mexico by the Mexican immigration service (Instituto Nacional de Migración.)

Tourists wishing to travel beyond the border zone with their car must obtain a temporary import permit or risk having their car confiscated by Mexican customs officials. To acquire a permit, one must submit evidence of citizenship, title for the car, a car registration certificate and a driver's license to a Banjercito branch located at a Mexican Customs office at the port of entry, and pay a processing fee. Mexican law also requires the posting of a bond at a Banjercito office to guarantee the departure of the car from Mexico within a time period determined at the time of the application. For this purpose, American Express, Visa or MasterCard credit card holders will be asked to provide credit card information; others will need to make a cash deposit of between $200 and $400, depending on the age of the car. In order to recover this bond or avoid credit card charges, travelers must return to any Mexican Customs office immediately prior to departing Mexico. Disregard any advice, official or unofficial, that vehicle permits can be obtained at checkpoints in the interior of Mexico. Avoid individuals outside vehicle permit offices offering to obtain the permits without waiting in line. If the proper permit cannot be obtained at the Banjercito branch at the port of entry, do not proceed to the interior where travelers may be incarcerated, fined and/or have their vehicle seized at immigration/customs checkpoints. For further information, inquire with Mexican Customs offices about appropriate vehicle permits. Additional information (in Spanish) can be found at http://www.aduanas.sat.gob.mx/webadunet/aga.aspx?Q=ImpTempVehiculos_Tema1.

Upon arrival in Mexico, business travelers must complete and submit a form (Form FM-N 30 days) authorizing the conduct of business, but not employment, for a 30-day period. Travelers entering Mexico for purposes other than tourism or business or for stays of longer than 180 days require a visa and must carry a valid U.S. passport. If you wish to stay longer than 180 days, or if you wish to do business or conduct religious work in Mexico, contact the Mexican Embassy or the nearest Mexican consulate to obtain a visa or permit. Persons conducting religious work on a tourist card are subject to arrest and deportation.

Visitors intending to participate in humanitarian aid missions, human rights advocacy groups or international observer delegations should contact the nearest Mexican consulate or Embassy for guidance on how to obtain the appropriate visa before traveling to Mexico.

In an effort to prevent international child abduction, many governments have initiated procedures at entry and exit points, including requiring documentary evidence of relationship and permission of the parent(s) or legal guardian not present for the child's travel. Parents of minor children (under 18 years old) should carefully document legal custody prior to traveling to Mexico. If a minor child is traveling with only one parent, the absent parent should provide notarized consent. If only one parent has legal custody, that parent should be prepared to provide such evidence to airlines and Mexican authorities. In cases in which a minor child is traveling to Mexico alone or in someone else's company, both parents (or the sole, documented custodial parent) should provide notarized consent. If a child traveling to Mexico has a different last name from the mother and/or father, the parents should be prepared to provide evidence to airlines and Mexican authorities, such as a birth certificate or adoption decree, to prove that they are indeed the parents. Mexican entry regulations require Spanish translations of all legal documents, including notarized consent decrees and court agreements. Enforcement of this provision is not always consistent, however, and English-language documents are almost always sufficient.

Residing or Retiring in Mexico

If you plan to live or retire in Mexico, consult a Mexican consulate on the type of long-term visa required. As soon as possible after you arrive in the place you will live, it is a good idea to register with the U.S. Embassy or the nearest U.S. consulate or consular agent. You may register on line at https://travelregistration.state.gov.
If you wish to register in person, bring your passport or other identification with you. Registration makes it easier to contact you in an emergency. (Registration information is confidential and will not be released to inquirers without your express authorization.)

For further information concerning entry and visa requirements, travelers may contact the Embassy of Mexico at 1911 Pennsylvania Avenue NW, Washington, DC 20006, phone (202) 736-1000, Internet site: http://portal.sre.gob.mx/usa/ or any Mexican consulate in the United States.

thats what I tough..

I went with a $20 tourist visa.. And took a Job in TJ (wanted to perfect my Spanish).. there is no control whatsoever.. they do not ask you for a work permit to give you a job.. But If you really feel the need to have some official paper..you can always go to the INM delegacion.. and buy an official declaratoria(like a green Card) for $270, a waste of money IMO.. the Employers don't even know how that paper looks like.. they never seen one.
And TJ counts as precicely DICK. Try doing that in MC.

http://www.mexidata.info/id779.html

Tourist Travel: U.S. citizens do not require a visa or a tourist card for tourist stays of 72 hours or less within "the border zone," defined as an area between 20 to 30 kilometers of the border with the U.S., depending on the location. U.S. citizens traveling as tourists beyond the border zone or entering Mexico by air must pay a fee to obtain a tourist card, also known as an FM-T, available from Mexican consulates, Mexican border crossing points, Mexican tourism offices, airports within the border zone and most airlines serving Mexico. The fee for the tourist card is generally included in the price of a plane ticket for travelers arriving by air.

Persons violating Mexican laws, even unknowingly, may be expelled, arrested or imprisoned.
But the US treats Illegal Immigrants so badly...
The Mexican government is required by international law to notify the U.S. Embassy or the nearest U.S. consulate promptly when an American citizen is arrested, if the arrestee so requests. In practice, however, this notification can be delayed by months or may never occur at all, limiting the assistance the U.S. Government can provide. Americans should promptly identify themselves as such to the arresting officers, and should request that the Embassy or nearest consulate be notified immediately.

Prison conditions in Mexico can be extremely poor. In many facilities food is insufficient in both quantity and quality, and prisoners must pay for adequate nutrition from their own funds. Most Mexican prisons provide poor medical care, and even prisoners with urgent medical conditions receive only a minimum of attention. U.S. citizens who are incarcerated in Mexico are sometimes forced to pay hundreds and even thousands of dollars in "protection money" to fellow prisoners.Yet providing free healthcare to Illegals is the American way...
Mexican police regularly obtain information through torture and prosecutors use this evidence in courts. The Constitution and the law prohibit torture, and Mexico is party to several international ant-torture conventions, but courts continue to admit as evidence confessions extracted under torture. Authorities rarely punish officials for torture, which continues to occur in large part because confessions are the primary evidence in many criminal convictions. U.S. citizens have been brutalized, beaten, and even raped while in police custody. Since the beginning of 2002, 20 American citizens have died in Mexican prisons, including five apparent homicides. Can Gitmo or Abu Grahib claim that? I thought not.
The U.S. Embassy recommends that U.S. citizens not travel to Mexico for the sole purpose of buying prescription drugs. U.S. citizens have been arrested and their medicines confiscated by the Mexican authorities, even though their prescriptions were written by a licensed American physician and filled by a licensed Mexican pharmacist. There have been cases of Americans buying prescription drugs in border cities only to be arrested soon after or have money extorted by criminals impersonating police officers. Those arrested are often held for the full 48 hours allowed by Mexican law without charges being filed, then released. During this interval, the detainees are often asked for bribes or are solicited by attorneys who demand large fees to secure their release, which will normally occur without any intercession, as there are insufficient grounds to bring criminal charges against the individuals. But it is against US policy - and often State Law - to arrest Illegals seeking medical treatment.
The Mexican Constitution prohibits direct ownership by foreigners of real estate within 100 kilometers (about 62 miles) of any border, and within 50 kilometers (about 31 miles) of any coastline. In order to permit foreign investment in these areas, the Mexican government has created a trust mechanism, in which a bank has title to the property, but a trust beneficiary enjoys the benefits of ownership. However, U.S. citizens are vulnerable to title challenges that may result in years of litigation and possible eviction. But Mexican Illegals can buy property wherever they want in the US.
ALIEN SMUGGLING: Mexican authorities may prosecute anyone arrested for transporting aliens into or out of Mexico for alien smuggling in addition to any charges they may face in the other country involved, including the United States. Which means, nothing on the Northern border, but serious shit on the southern border.

Don't play this game OD. Their Laws are there for direct comparison to those awful US immigration laws. (A) You were in the anomoly known asTJ & (B) You got lucky.

Oh, as for the "Illegal Vote"... Mexico requires Government Picture IDs AND FINGERPRINTS to vote. I can hear the Democrat screams already... :rolleyes:

Meh. 2 ways to fix it.

#1 Enforce current law... but that would be "racist" so I propose:

#2 Making US/Mexican Immigration Law word for word IDENTICAL to Mexican Immigration law... and enforce it with the same rigor the Mexicans do.

Fair is fair, after all.

So much for being "pro-choice on everything," I see.

So much for being "pro-choice on everything," I see.
Explain. If you choose to break the law, then you choose to accept the consequences.

Illegal Aliens advocates are arguing to get out of the consequences. No other country in the world allows border incursions or illegal immigration to this level.

How about looking at the Mexican Constitution?

According to an official translation published by the Organization of American States, the Mexican constitution includes the following restrictions:

Pursuant to Article 33, "Foreigners may not in any way participate in the political affairs of the country." This ban applies, among other things, to participation in demonstrations and the expression of opinions in public about domestic politics like those much in evidence in Los Angeles, New York and elsewhere in recent days.

Equal employment rights are denied to immigrants, even legal ones. Article 32: "Mexicans shall have priority over foreigners under equality of circumstances for all classes of concessions and for all employment, positions, or commissions of the Government in which the status of citizenship is not indispensable."

Jobs for which Mexican citizenship is considered "indispensable" include, pursuant to Article 32, bans on foreigners, immigrants, and even naturalized citizens of Mexico serving as military officers, Mexican-flagged ship and airline crew, and chiefs of seaports and airports.

Article 55 denies immigrants the right to become federal lawmakers. A Mexican congressman or senator must be "a Mexican citizen by birth." Article 91 further stipulates that immigrants may never aspire to become cabinet officers as they are required to be Mexican by birth. Article 95 says the same about Supreme Court justices.
In accordance with Article 130, immigrants - even legal ones - may not become members of the clergy, either.

Foreigners, to say nothing of illegal immigrants, are denied fundamental property rights. For example, Article 27 states, "Only Mexicans by birth or naturalization and Mexican companies have the right to acquire ownership of lands, waters, and their appurtenances, or to obtain concessions for the exploitation of mines or of waters."

Article 11 guarantees federal protection against "undesirable aliens resident in the country." What is more, private individuals are authorized to make citizen's arrests. Article 16 states, "In cases of flagrante delicto, any person may arrest the offender and his accomplices, turning them over without delay to the nearest authorities." In other words, Mexico grants its citizens the right to arrest illegal aliens and hand them over to police for prosecution. And yet people whine about US citizens watching our border - without arrest powers.

The Mexican constitution states that foreigners - not just illegal immigrants - may be expelled for any reason and without due process. According to Article 33, "the Federal Executive shall have the exclusive power to compel any foreigner whose remaining he may deem inexpedient to abandon the national territory immediately and without the necessity of previous legal action."

And yet, people whine when anyone proposes enforcing US law. :rolleyes:

Either make US law the same as Mexico's, or make Mexico's the same as the US.

http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/Mexicos_Glass_House.pdf

Oh well--I guess that grammatical error nullified the thread. But thank you for the correction.

Dang. And here I thought you actually meant to say that expats like myself were creating problems for the US. :(

http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/Mexicos_Glass_House.pdf
Try looking at what is needed to come to the US sometime. http://uscis.gov/graphics/index.htm
The system is a mishmash of conflicting laws and quotas. Hell, it will cost you $20 to ASK about coming into the US, ASKING at US Embassys is no longer free. Even being married to a US citizen is not a surefire way to get into the US and the money required to actually immigrate is ridiciolus.

Not to mention that many of what you posted up there is also US laws (such as illegals not working) but, alas, no one seems to inforce this.

And TJ counts as precicely DICK.
Last time I checked TJ is in Mexico.

And yet, people whine when anyone proposes enforcing US law. :rolleyes:You are the one whining about how bad (in theory) the INM deals with you If you work in Mexico without a Permit... But you are talking out of your ass.. You have no real-life experience.. You are only theory..I am about real life.